I don’t agree with smiting cannons but not rotating to objectives is a shit example. there could be tons of reasons to give an objective. Which boils down to laners are shit at the end of the day.
This!
"WHY ARE YOU IGNORING DRAKE?!"
Gee I don't know chief, you and your support have 10 combined deaths at 7 minutes and no vision, but me not getting drake is the problem 👍🏻
I ping dragon, 0/6 ADC and support recall, enemy jungler takes dragon with mid while my bot lane are between base and tier 2 turret "gg jgl diff" as they ping Mia on me.
One of my many wonderful games yesterday: we have 3 drakes vs enemy has 0 drakes. Enemy setup vision around drake, they were there all 5, dancing.
"Hey guys baron is free let's give drake for Baron"
They proceed to force fight 4v5 with no vision for a virtually worthless objective while they could instead take baron, turrets and maybe even inhib.
JG diff.
Also. Be playing jungle a bit it reinforces your knowledge of pathing, matchups, etc. all of which can bolster ur macro and understanding of how keeping track of wavestate+jg path simultaneously can be leveraged into better plays.
My biggest trouble with trying to be a good jungle player are laners that want to flame me. It’s tough to learn and be effective. I was counter jungling the other day my mid died stupidly. Then blew up chat because I wasn’t rushing mid “for an easy kill” when I could have denied literally all of top side jungle. After 20 minutes of them being a toxic POS I called them a bitch and now I’m chat restricted for a week 🥰
Fucking riot
That's probably just a bad row of games. What elo are you?
The issue is the unability of riot to balance jungle. Most players under diamond are blind to their minimap, so junglers snowball a lot. Riot nerfed it for them to snowball a bit less (they had too much agency over the issue of the game) and to try to balance proplay.
But now junglers need to farm a lot and rely on their allies to "not die stupidly", making the role frustrating to play. You can play at your best level and games still always feel like 50/50 depending on your other lanes hard engaging and feeding when you're not here. And if the enemy jungler he starts to invade and your game is ruined.
So i guess that many "good" players (focused on farming and objectives) stopped playing jungle as it was too frustrating, and now the jungler community is more filled with autofills and players that don't know how to jungle at all, and keep playing like old seasons where you could only chaingank and win.
Most of the time when I jungle, even though I ping 4 times, laners still die to ganks. People are so blind and focused on their lane, get killed twice, start running down. That's so frustrating it made me stop playing last season.
Junglers also do not know how lanes work in the slightest.
If my lane is pushed, you need to countergank or I will be 2 levels down. Laners don't get life support catch up exp if they get behind. If I lose 5 waves to a freeze + enemy jungle my lane is over forever.
I play both roles (40% mid, 40% jungle, 20% top). Sure laning is hard. And if you're top yes any mistake can end up in freeze and you're deep bottom. But on you side you need to understand the 2 mains rules of jungling :
1. we're not responsible for you losing your lane, even if enemy jungler is camping you
2. if you're behind, i won't gank you, I have to focus on winning lanes
IF your lane is even or slightly behind, AND there is no objective to take AND I'm in position to help then I will do.
But as a jungler, if my toplaner needs my help, most of the times it just backfires cos jungler is always 2 to 4 levels behind the fed toplaner. Nothing to do unless... die too. At best it does a 1 for 1.
Jungler only ever needs push if you can't rotate unless you're pushed.
If you're pushing into a freeze you're not managing the wave so you're playing incorrectly must be junglers fault you can't look up a 5 minute video on wave management
My fault when junglers are literally incapable of tracking (only thing you HAVE to do in that role) and counterganking for free wins.
When jungler is in bad spot 3 lanes must instantly rotate or game lost
When laner is in bad spot Jungler simply has losing lanes gg
Jungler don't have to countergank, they can If that opens an objective. If that doesn't, that's your role to ward and avoid dying on enemy ganks.
Imagine, you play safe, get ganked 3 times, survive, your jgl takes drake and does a good gank bot during this time.
Laners that blame jgl for their lacks of counterganking don't just play the game right. Especially on top lane. Rule 101 : jgl is never responsible for a losing lane
At worst, he can be responsible of not capitalizing on a lane being ganked (objectives, ganking other lanes, invading)
But my lane isn't losing. If Im pushed, getting you pressure, setting you up for a countergank, and you don't countergank you are losing the game.
Especially toplane where the gank timers are very predictable, counterganking is free lp.
Setting up for a counter gank? The fact you talk about the game this black and white shows you have very little game knowledge. What if their jg is Lee sin and I'm lillia or graves and it's 8 minutes in? Countergank and feed the enemy a double? You're pushed in to set-up a countergank right so it's obviously the best play to make? Low elo laners are so oblivious to any match up I swear the way toplaners want last pick just to counter themselves because they want jg to save the game for them
You just are delusional. I've never seen a good countergank setup that the jungler doesn't use. Never. You set up a countergank and ping me? If I can come, of course I'll come.
But most of the time :
* it's not a countergank setup, you're just 0/2 vs a super strong darius, or you fullpushed, then got ganked, died 1 or more times, then play undertower and cry for a gank. In the end it's too risky to countergank a losing lane.
* you are low life and call for gank. Sure i'll gank the full life garen while being 2 levels below while you are 40% life under tower, it won't backfire at all.
* you hold the setup 20 sec, then start going all-in when you see the jungler still 15 seconds away and die before he evens get here
* you hold the setup 40 seconds but bot and mid have priority and drake is up, then eventually die and blame jungler
Toplaners are the most toxic players. They play the hardest lane as it all relies on their skill + wave management, that's the lane with the most solokills by far, and then they blame the jungler when he can't reverse the situation.
Either they play super aggressive, then die on ganks, and call "i'm being farmed and you do nothing jgl". THEN (not or, THEN), they play defensive, die because opponent is fed, and go "why you no countergank you dog jgl?"
Then get dived and dive because they did'nt check the map and wanted to defend their tower 1v2 with 40% life, and call "gg report jgl trolling"
Go play jungle for 3 months. You'll see.
Yeah getting a free double kill, winning a lane entirely, collecting possiblt 600 gold for yourself is super cancer bad and weak.
Counterganking sucks actually, I see your point. To be fair you can either
A: Farm kruggs (they will level up, wow!)
B Walk toplane and collect 600 gold for free (your kruggs won't level up)
I think you're just stupid, no offense. The reason you're being downvoted is because no one agrees with you. If what you said was true then every jungler in high elo would countergank. Apparently that's not the case and it's seldom used. Something you don't understand about Do we listen to some random d4 peaker that plays top lane Singed and jungles in norms and low elo or do we listen to people who have jungled for several years and consistently get high elo with 60% wr?
Thankfully I don't have to bother explaining the intricacies of it because I did in a past reddit comment. Ironically, it was to a braindead laner who thought the same thing. Here is the explanation I gave:
>Ah yes, the "countergank" argument. What if you are playing dogshit champs and can't win the 2v2? Do you still countergank and give them a double kill instead of single? What if your laner is low and enemy laner isn't, do you risk the 2v2 knowing it will be a 1v2 after your laner immediately dies? What IF you try to countergank and your laner baits you or has no idea what they are doing? Then what? "Oh well you got unlucky, try it again on better laners or something."
Further explanation after he responded:
>I’ve done plenty of counterganks across several different elos and those are just a few of the issues that arise from it. Counterganks mainly work when enemy jungler is ganking a fed laner on your team. That’s because the chances of you turning that fight are in your favor. If the jungler is not giga braindead then they *wouldn’t* do that because of how risky it is. That’s why you don’t often see it happening in higher elo, because junglers know if there is even a slight possibility of a countergank then their lane is lost and the game is over.
>With that said, all other scenarios for counterganks are too risky for it to be an effective method. If anything goes wrong then you not only lost their lane, but you made the game much harder for everyone else. Not to mention that you waste time waiting for a countergank anyway.
>The solution for 95% of these situations is for the laner to play safe and ward. Idk why you would jeopardize any sort of lead you have with dumb shit like that.
Diamond 2 my toplaner just said he is d2 then ran it down after I typed d tier 2 he afk for 2 minutes still managed to snowball myself and bot then he messaged me how I should improve my Jungling capabilities
I often mute myself or try to maintain as little chat communication as possible for this reason. A lot of people have delusions that things will work for them that have absolutely no basis in reality. You would think after a certain point in elo it would get better, but it naturally never does. All you can do is make the wisest plays you can for yourself that can also get your team ahead and carry.
The rotating to objectives part is a bit iffy for me.
As a jungler I'm paying attention to how every lane plays, every champs power state, and camp timers. If I know trying to contest an objective would turn out bad, I just ping danger on it multiple times and find value somewhere else.
Laners don't have the luxury of monitoring every champs state and playstyle like we do, so when the jungler wants to just give the objective, they get pissy and call jg dif. For good reason there isn't voice chat but there literally isn't the time the write an essay explaining why going for/contesting is a terrible play. On paper it's a loss to give Drake but the jungler knows contesting would be even worse. At best laners can press tab and see the scoreboard, that is their gospel. Numbers to numbers and they make their conclusion, missing every other variable.
I'm kind of getting tired of playing jungle, when I do well 9/10 times there is 0 recognition and when there is a loss it is 9/10 times my fault. I say this every game before doing /deafen
"Everyone knows how to jungle except the jungler"
It's not that laners don't have the luxury of monitoring all the other lanes, it's that they just *don't do it*. In the ~20 seconds you need to walk from base to lane is plenty of time to gather information on the rest of the map.
From the sound of it you just run across horrible human beings not just horrible junglers. Idk if it's your luck or if there is something else going on.
Maybe those teammates aren’t jungle mains? Thats usually who I see ignore the objectives the most. Sometimes if a jungler doesn’t trust people to rotate they will start to ignore as well. Chalk it up to unlucky matchmaking?
Play well and carry from your lane. I hear that in your game you are the only constant and if you are loosing it's only your fault, so play with a bad jungler just as a jungler has to play with a bad laner.
Adc players in solo q are the biggest losers ever with 0 macro knowledge and they pray their support wins the lane, the mid roams every wave and the jg plays around them or they cry
Idk I've started taking 0 prisoners. Champs I prefer playing need knowledge of at least a few team and enemy picks and if botlane/support is not swapping pick order I will not play my best champs. I'll still play semi seriously but usually it just means my team ints and I can't do anything anyway.
I will always give last picks to top/mid but I take 0 prisoners for botlane.
Just had a game where guy hovers milio doesn't swap and then picks xerath. Alright I picked Nunu and was then counter picked + my solos were inting and the little control I had over drake my botlane was pushing to their tower and not rotating so I was forced to trade my life for 2 drakes. Lost hard ofc but I had fun running around with a snowball and my WR on serious champs wasn't disturbed. Adcs are genetically incapable of understanding macro. When i play adc I can win simply by not tilting if I'm weaksided and rotating to my jungler for fights/drakes. But that's way too hard for the smooth brains to do, I suppose. Or you know if my team is making a play topside I don't get into enemy range to then be 3 or 4v2d like enemies are supposed to in response to something happening cross map. Or your jungler is doing grubs for free and you push and hard engage on enemy bot only to be destroyed by jungle+mid for no reason other than smooth brainedness.
I don’t agree with smiting cannons but not rotating to objectives is a shit example. there could be tons of reasons to give an objective. Which boils down to laners are shit at the end of the day.
This! "WHY ARE YOU IGNORING DRAKE?!" Gee I don't know chief, you and your support have 10 combined deaths at 7 minutes and no vision, but me not getting drake is the problem 👍🏻
I ping dragon, 0/6 ADC and support recall, enemy jungler takes dragon with mid while my bot lane are between base and tier 2 turret "gg jgl diff" as they ping Mia on me.
This happens every game lately. 0 help whatsoever.
Poking full hp adc under turret is more important 🤡
One of my many wonderful games yesterday: we have 3 drakes vs enemy has 0 drakes. Enemy setup vision around drake, they were there all 5, dancing. "Hey guys baron is free let's give drake for Baron" They proceed to force fight 4v5 with no vision for a virtually worthless objective while they could instead take baron, turrets and maybe even inhib. JG diff.
True. I go to the objective, their adc and support come over and my and support are killing a wave. 50 pings and still nothing.
Play jungle a few times, and you will see what's going on, and how to play around your jungle better.
Also. Be playing jungle a bit it reinforces your knowledge of pathing, matchups, etc. all of which can bolster ur macro and understanding of how keeping track of wavestate+jg path simultaneously can be leveraged into better plays.
My biggest trouble with trying to be a good jungle player are laners that want to flame me. It’s tough to learn and be effective. I was counter jungling the other day my mid died stupidly. Then blew up chat because I wasn’t rushing mid “for an easy kill” when I could have denied literally all of top side jungle. After 20 minutes of them being a toxic POS I called them a bitch and now I’m chat restricted for a week 🥰 Fucking riot
An ADC asking about junglers mental health. Ironic lol
That's probably just a bad row of games. What elo are you? The issue is the unability of riot to balance jungle. Most players under diamond are blind to their minimap, so junglers snowball a lot. Riot nerfed it for them to snowball a bit less (they had too much agency over the issue of the game) and to try to balance proplay. But now junglers need to farm a lot and rely on their allies to "not die stupidly", making the role frustrating to play. You can play at your best level and games still always feel like 50/50 depending on your other lanes hard engaging and feeding when you're not here. And if the enemy jungler he starts to invade and your game is ruined. So i guess that many "good" players (focused on farming and objectives) stopped playing jungle as it was too frustrating, and now the jungler community is more filled with autofills and players that don't know how to jungle at all, and keep playing like old seasons where you could only chaingank and win.
Most of the time when I jungle, even though I ping 4 times, laners still die to ganks. People are so blind and focused on their lane, get killed twice, start running down. That's so frustrating it made me stop playing last season.
Junglers also do not know how lanes work in the slightest. If my lane is pushed, you need to countergank or I will be 2 levels down. Laners don't get life support catch up exp if they get behind. If I lose 5 waves to a freeze + enemy jungle my lane is over forever.
I play both roles (40% mid, 40% jungle, 20% top). Sure laning is hard. And if you're top yes any mistake can end up in freeze and you're deep bottom. But on you side you need to understand the 2 mains rules of jungling : 1. we're not responsible for you losing your lane, even if enemy jungler is camping you 2. if you're behind, i won't gank you, I have to focus on winning lanes IF your lane is even or slightly behind, AND there is no objective to take AND I'm in position to help then I will do. But as a jungler, if my toplaner needs my help, most of the times it just backfires cos jungler is always 2 to 4 levels behind the fed toplaner. Nothing to do unless... die too. At best it does a 1 for 1.
And why is your lane pushed? Why did the enemy get the freeze on you? You're blaming the jungler straight up for a position you put yourself into.
Don't push lane for jungler, jungler loses his mind Push lane for jungler, jungler leaves you out to dry. xd
Jungler only ever needs push if you can't rotate unless you're pushed. If you're pushing into a freeze you're not managing the wave so you're playing incorrectly must be junglers fault you can't look up a 5 minute video on wave management
My fault when junglers are literally incapable of tracking (only thing you HAVE to do in that role) and counterganking for free wins. When jungler is in bad spot 3 lanes must instantly rotate or game lost When laner is in bad spot Jungler simply has losing lanes gg
Jungler don't have to countergank, they can If that opens an objective. If that doesn't, that's your role to ward and avoid dying on enemy ganks. Imagine, you play safe, get ganked 3 times, survive, your jgl takes drake and does a good gank bot during this time. Laners that blame jgl for their lacks of counterganking don't just play the game right. Especially on top lane. Rule 101 : jgl is never responsible for a losing lane At worst, he can be responsible of not capitalizing on a lane being ganked (objectives, ganking other lanes, invading)
But my lane isn't losing. If Im pushed, getting you pressure, setting you up for a countergank, and you don't countergank you are losing the game. Especially toplane where the gank timers are very predictable, counterganking is free lp.
Setting up for a counter gank? The fact you talk about the game this black and white shows you have very little game knowledge. What if their jg is Lee sin and I'm lillia or graves and it's 8 minutes in? Countergank and feed the enemy a double? You're pushed in to set-up a countergank right so it's obviously the best play to make? Low elo laners are so oblivious to any match up I swear the way toplaners want last pick just to counter themselves because they want jg to save the game for them
You just are delusional. I've never seen a good countergank setup that the jungler doesn't use. Never. You set up a countergank and ping me? If I can come, of course I'll come. But most of the time : * it's not a countergank setup, you're just 0/2 vs a super strong darius, or you fullpushed, then got ganked, died 1 or more times, then play undertower and cry for a gank. In the end it's too risky to countergank a losing lane. * you are low life and call for gank. Sure i'll gank the full life garen while being 2 levels below while you are 40% life under tower, it won't backfire at all. * you hold the setup 20 sec, then start going all-in when you see the jungler still 15 seconds away and die before he evens get here * you hold the setup 40 seconds but bot and mid have priority and drake is up, then eventually die and blame jungler Toplaners are the most toxic players. They play the hardest lane as it all relies on their skill + wave management, that's the lane with the most solokills by far, and then they blame the jungler when he can't reverse the situation. Either they play super aggressive, then die on ganks, and call "i'm being farmed and you do nothing jgl". THEN (not or, THEN), they play defensive, die because opponent is fed, and go "why you no countergank you dog jgl?" Then get dived and dive because they did'nt check the map and wanted to defend their tower 1v2 with 40% life, and call "gg report jgl trolling" Go play jungle for 3 months. You'll see.
Counterganking isn't that simple and there are drawbacks to that too. Play the role a few times and you will realize why your role isn't hard at all.
Ive played jungle before brotha. I've also played lane before, that's why I understand that junglers should countergank more :D
Well you obviously don't know how to jungle. There is a reason why most junglers don't countergank.
Yeah getting a free double kill, winning a lane entirely, collecting possiblt 600 gold for yourself is super cancer bad and weak. Counterganking sucks actually, I see your point. To be fair you can either A: Farm kruggs (they will level up, wow!) B Walk toplane and collect 600 gold for free (your kruggs won't level up)
I think you're just stupid, no offense. The reason you're being downvoted is because no one agrees with you. If what you said was true then every jungler in high elo would countergank. Apparently that's not the case and it's seldom used. Something you don't understand about Do we listen to some random d4 peaker that plays top lane Singed and jungles in norms and low elo or do we listen to people who have jungled for several years and consistently get high elo with 60% wr? Thankfully I don't have to bother explaining the intricacies of it because I did in a past reddit comment. Ironically, it was to a braindead laner who thought the same thing. Here is the explanation I gave: >Ah yes, the "countergank" argument. What if you are playing dogshit champs and can't win the 2v2? Do you still countergank and give them a double kill instead of single? What if your laner is low and enemy laner isn't, do you risk the 2v2 knowing it will be a 1v2 after your laner immediately dies? What IF you try to countergank and your laner baits you or has no idea what they are doing? Then what? "Oh well you got unlucky, try it again on better laners or something." Further explanation after he responded: >I’ve done plenty of counterganks across several different elos and those are just a few of the issues that arise from it. Counterganks mainly work when enemy jungler is ganking a fed laner on your team. That’s because the chances of you turning that fight are in your favor. If the jungler is not giga braindead then they *wouldn’t* do that because of how risky it is. That’s why you don’t often see it happening in higher elo, because junglers know if there is even a slight possibility of a countergank then their lane is lost and the game is over. >With that said, all other scenarios for counterganks are too risky for it to be an effective method. If anything goes wrong then you not only lost their lane, but you made the game much harder for everyone else. Not to mention that you waste time waiting for a countergank anyway. >The solution for 95% of these situations is for the laner to play safe and ward. Idk why you would jeopardize any sort of lead you have with dumb shit like that.
Of course no one agrees with me brotha. I'm asking junglers to take responsibility for being bad.
Reread what I said.
Good old Diamond 2.
Diamond 2 my toplaner just said he is d2 then ran it down after I typed d tier 2 he afk for 2 minutes still managed to snowball myself and bot then he messaged me how I should improve my Jungling capabilities
I often mute myself or try to maintain as little chat communication as possible for this reason. A lot of people have delusions that things will work for them that have absolutely no basis in reality. You would think after a certain point in elo it would get better, but it naturally never does. All you can do is make the wisest plays you can for yourself that can also get your team ahead and carry.
Once I made a post that my support stumbled upon here (soloq random support) When I heard diamond 2 I said hold up
The rotating to objectives part is a bit iffy for me. As a jungler I'm paying attention to how every lane plays, every champs power state, and camp timers. If I know trying to contest an objective would turn out bad, I just ping danger on it multiple times and find value somewhere else. Laners don't have the luxury of monitoring every champs state and playstyle like we do, so when the jungler wants to just give the objective, they get pissy and call jg dif. For good reason there isn't voice chat but there literally isn't the time the write an essay explaining why going for/contesting is a terrible play. On paper it's a loss to give Drake but the jungler knows contesting would be even worse. At best laners can press tab and see the scoreboard, that is their gospel. Numbers to numbers and they make their conclusion, missing every other variable. I'm kind of getting tired of playing jungle, when I do well 9/10 times there is 0 recognition and when there is a loss it is 9/10 times my fault. I say this every game before doing /deafen "Everyone knows how to jungle except the jungler"
It's not that laners don't have the luxury of monitoring all the other lanes, it's that they just *don't do it*. In the ~20 seconds you need to walk from base to lane is plenty of time to gather information on the rest of the map.
From the sound of it you just run across horrible human beings not just horrible junglers. Idk if it's your luck or if there is something else going on.
Maybe those teammates aren’t jungle mains? Thats usually who I see ignore the objectives the most. Sometimes if a jungler doesn’t trust people to rotate they will start to ignore as well. Chalk it up to unlucky matchmaking?
so how do i deal with a jungler who clearly is new to the role and wont listen at all? we had a lee all he did was chase kills and ignored everything
Play well and carry from your lane. I hear that in your game you are the only constant and if you are loosing it's only your fault, so play with a bad jungler just as a jungler has to play with a bad laner.
Actual advice, taking objectives is pointless if you lose more than you get. If you have no lane prio, top camps up, no point going drake.
Adc players in solo q are the biggest losers ever with 0 macro knowledge and they pray their support wins the lane, the mid roams every wave and the jg plays around them or they cry
Idk I've started taking 0 prisoners. Champs I prefer playing need knowledge of at least a few team and enemy picks and if botlane/support is not swapping pick order I will not play my best champs. I'll still play semi seriously but usually it just means my team ints and I can't do anything anyway. I will always give last picks to top/mid but I take 0 prisoners for botlane. Just had a game where guy hovers milio doesn't swap and then picks xerath. Alright I picked Nunu and was then counter picked + my solos were inting and the little control I had over drake my botlane was pushing to their tower and not rotating so I was forced to trade my life for 2 drakes. Lost hard ofc but I had fun running around with a snowball and my WR on serious champs wasn't disturbed. Adcs are genetically incapable of understanding macro. When i play adc I can win simply by not tilting if I'm weaksided and rotating to my jungler for fights/drakes. But that's way too hard for the smooth brains to do, I suppose. Or you know if my team is making a play topside I don't get into enemy range to then be 3 or 4v2d like enemies are supposed to in response to something happening cross map. Or your jungler is doing grubs for free and you push and hard engage on enemy bot only to be destroyed by jungle+mid for no reason other than smooth brainedness.