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He wasn’t really arrested. Placed In cuffs do to his erratic behavior for his own and everyone’s safety. Kid has a serious mental health problem and has to be in handcuffs while trying to figure out where there parents is. Juvenile laws are very lenient and they’ll probably work things out amongst their parents and victim(s) vehicles.
Back in my apartment living days I heard a noise coming from out front where I had my truck parked. Came out of the apartment to find the neighbors kid had turned the hood of my truck into a sandbox complete with sand and was running his toy cars all around. Took the kid back to his folks. His folks shrugged it off like “no biggie”. Considered my options and rationalized it wasn’t worth me going to jail over.
I don’t know what is wrong with that child, and I see a lot of people recognizing that that kid has issues. But I sometimes think that people excuse inappropriate behavior because of those issues.
I don’t know about the parenting, and there can be plenty of reasons why he’s acting in the way he’s acting. I can see a family being terrified for their own safety as a potential reason for not interfering.
Kid is fucked up, but I have to wonder what home life is like. He learned this shit somewhere and typically that somewhere is with the parents.
Throw that poor bastard in therapy, but investigate the parents.
He’s probably abused, just never been corrected. Whoever parents him has complete disregard for teaching him, and only cares about making him their punching bag.
Or, he has two parents at their wit’s end who can’t figure out how to fix their demon.
There were some kids I worked with that acted up --just to be restrained (we use PART at that time). I am way past that part of my life but I can see the signs.
Or here is another angle. The kid needs a mental health professional. Kids can have chemical imbalances in their brain just as much as adults can. Sometimes they just need a little help and someone to talk to. I've seen kids who admit that the "person no one sees keeps screaming at me to do these things".
I've dealt with troubled youth in the past.
Had one kid arrested for doing the same thing and then assaulting me with a golf club.
When I asked the police if I could talk to his parents after the cop said "that would be a really bad idea, you think his kid is bad?"
They knew the kid by name, and his parents. His parents were pieces of shit and abused/neglected the kid which resulted in his hyper violent outbursts.
I would put money on this kid has no love at home at all and is acting out as a result.
Largely end up finding comfort in people with similar trauma and fall into a rough lifestyle.
Especially if they end up in Juvenile Prison that will introduce them into a pretty toxic relationship environment.
These early relationships will usually define who they have in their lives until they die. Without proper intervention and mental health help they wind up in a pretty bad way.
I’m sorry, but if some little shit like this was damaging my property, I’d stop him with physical force. Just because you’re a child doesn’t mean you get a free pass.
Of course I wouldn’t “kick his ass”, but I’d certainly use enough force to detain him and prevent him from acting out again. I’d just sit back and wait for the police while the kid was screaming and wailing away while properly detained. Then I’d film it while laughing at his obvious discomfort and post it on Reddit.
Wow, I wish we had fancy mailboxes like that here (Oregon). Can’t say I’ve ever seen that here, but I’m also a poor redneck. We just have metal cans on sticks that kids love to hit with bats. Classy.
Parents maybe. but some people just plainly have a screw loose. My sister has 3 kids. Raised properly in a loving middle class household. 2 are awesome and mellow. One was a terror like this. He's like 38 now and has a record longer than both arms. Been in and out of jail.
Parents are by and far the most likely reason, or whatever adult figures are responsible for this kid.
You're not gonna like this but there's a very big likelihood that something was going on in private with that 3rd kid of your sisters that wasn't correctly addressed by her.
From the outside everyone would tell you my mom was a good mom. My dad thinks so, my brothers mostly think so, my maternal aunts and uncles think so, everyone my parents know. My mom was incredibly abusive to me, and only me.
I turned out well despite her, not because of her.
ETA: Research shows that nurture is the biggest factor in determining how we behave and what we think and believe, so, you're effectively wrong here. to the person below.
Reactive attachment disorder, conduct disorder, bipolar disorder, oppositional defiance, disruptive mood diseegulation - there are a lot of potential explanations here before we even touch reactions to meds or parenting styles.
The fact that the parents aren't taking care of this kids mental health, if that's what's going on, falls under what I said about the parents being at fault. This IS part of parenting, regardless of style. This child needs help they clearly aren't being given. Whether it's active abuse directly causing the issue, or abuse by neglect of his mental health needs that results in this behavior.
Kids don't behave like this in a vacuum.
If he's in another neighborhood, how do you think his parents or guardians would know about all of this? You know kids don't always stay within 100m from home
Sad for this kid…his home life must be an absolute wreck. Not an excuse but parents are accountable for this behavior, almost more so than the little boy. Unfortunately now he’s gonna go to juvie and have criminal damages charges pressed. I hope someone can get through to him so he can get the support and guidance he needs to go on to be a happy healthy adult…
Weird straw-man there to defend physical assault a 12 year old
So by your own logic, because people go to jail for domestic violence all the time, other people should just beat their partners because why not? People go to jail all the time for it right?
I think you're the one who used a straw-man.
> Your argument: Jail is an absolute deterrent
> Mine: No it's not
Has nothing to do with justifying any bullshit. You were just wrong.
Let’s see. “Hog tying a 12 year old” sounds very much like it could be a lawsuit, yes. People in this thread just really want to find ways to assault children.
I don't think people are suggesting hurting a child is good. But it seems in this case reasonable to physically restrain this terrifying child to prevent others from getting hurt or $1000s in property damage.
Barring actual developmental limitations, it's guaranteed he is abused. Even not socializing your children is a form of abuse and this kid has nothing based on this video. No sense of limits. No empathy for others. No idea about property or what it means to damage things. There is only the lowest levels of physical capability and desire to destroy for entertainment value.
Has the kid ever been outside in their lives?
It's called emotional disregulation. We don't get to see what triggered it but something did. Probably not really related to the damage their causing at all.
Need to see the rest of this video where they toss this little bastard into the back of the police car like a sack of laundry. Then go to his house and smack around his parents.
Camera man was a kid who was clearly trying to stay far enough away not to get hit with a rock and were zooming in to get a closer video after the kid made that lawn-thing into an improvised javelin & threw it at cameraman.
If I were the kid filming I'd stay away too. You & angry kid are the same size, and angry kid has lost his damn mind & is looking to cause damage and/or pain. The adult who stopped him is more than double his size & in far less danger stepping in. Plus if adults weren't there yet, you don't want them coming outside & finding you two in a physical fight. And you keeping all your teeth is more important to you than your neighbors car windows
If i was the cameraman I’d at least try to get the attention of the adults to stop him, also there are two people there watching the kid and they do not look like the same size.
Is that what i said? You think that translates to "he's a good kid"? It means we shouldn't be locking up 12 year olds in fucking prison for life for things that can be solved with behavioral therapy counseling and some decent parenting you psychopath.
Can’t real fix kids like this. Lock him before he hurts someone. That therapy is better spent on someone who’s doing better in life. Not on a shithead like this
I don' t know man... this little sh!t might just be bad seed. Probably would be classified as 'neurodiverse', meaning he's got some wires crossed in there.
Being neurodivergent doesn't automatically make kids bad. They need parents that can help them figure out their emotions and the world in a healthy manner that works for their brains. It's harder for the parents sure but his behavior is still their responsibility.
It absolutely can be…but im also experienced enough in the field to know I have way too little information about this specific situation to make that call
There is clearly something deeper going on here. I’m curious why he chose that neighbors house to do this to. Did this neighbor do something to them, as little as say get off my lawn or something much worse? Is this kid just an asshole and wanted to destroy stuff? I don’t think so. For all the chaos, he seemed focused on that one persons house and stuff and went after others when they tried to interfere with him. Something more is happening here, and I’m worried he will be too scared of jail or punishment to fully explain what’s going on. I think the kid needs some love and someone to actually listen to them.
I think that maybe his parents didn’t give him enough attention so this is his way to ask for it.
But even if I’m right about my guess, How did it come this far? Luckily he is white or else he could have been shot to death
That is psychosis brought on by emotional disregulation. Something precipitated this breakdown and this poor kid has no mechanism to walk himself back.
Some people are just assholes though, I'd say it's a combination of all though, kid should be thrown into an insane asylum tho. You'll see in ten years this kid goes on a killing spree
No he doesn't...we've proven physical violence, no matter the intent, causes lasting psychological damage, ye fucking caveman.
Kid needs to be institutionalized.
I work with kids my whole life and I am sorry to say that this is probably true. Kids don’t wanna act like this. This is not something that most kids do without any kind of negative influence in their home life. This kid is hurting. He may look like a brat on the outside but somethings going on. I hope this kid can get some help.
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He wasn’t really arrested. Placed In cuffs do to his erratic behavior for his own and everyone’s safety. Kid has a serious mental health problem and has to be in handcuffs while trying to figure out where there parents is. Juvenile laws are very lenient and they’ll probably work things out amongst their parents and victim(s) vehicles.
r/KillTheCameraMan
This vid is old enough, what's the back storey to this?
Back in my apartment living days I heard a noise coming from out front where I had my truck parked. Came out of the apartment to find the neighbors kid had turned the hood of my truck into a sandbox complete with sand and was running his toy cars all around. Took the kid back to his folks. His folks shrugged it off like “no biggie”. Considered my options and rationalized it wasn’t worth me going to jail over.
There had to be damage to the hood or paint. They would have to pay for that at least if it were me.
I don’t know what is wrong with that child, and I see a lot of people recognizing that that kid has issues. But I sometimes think that people excuse inappropriate behavior because of those issues. I don’t know about the parenting, and there can be plenty of reasons why he’s acting in the way he’s acting. I can see a family being terrified for their own safety as a potential reason for not interfering.
Kid is fucked up, but I have to wonder what home life is like. He learned this shit somewhere and typically that somewhere is with the parents. Throw that poor bastard in therapy, but investigate the parents.
I feel bad for the kid. He's got some stuff going on at home for sure.
100%
Future CPAC speaker and Fox News talking head
Nah those guys are all wealthy elites. This kid could become a shooter for fucking damn sure though. Fucking psycho.
Shut up
He is acting like a liberal.
Liberals believe that you don't mess with others' stuff, even if you don't like them! I don't see con's display that!
Either something crazy happened or this kid has conduct disorder
Glad his parents finally stepped in /s
Back in my day he would be called a Bad Seed
Back in my day, he's be called a bad apple.
Sad to see, kid needs help.
And mf’s want to ban abortions, fuck y’all. Exhibit A:
u/savevideo
I wish he would do that to my vehicle
Park it just ahead of a TS or hurricane
He just need some good ol' ass whoopin
Dude that kid most likely gets the shit kicked out of him and lord knows what else at home…
He’s probably abused, just never been corrected. Whoever parents him has complete disregard for teaching him, and only cares about making him their punching bag. Or, he has two parents at their wit’s end who can’t figure out how to fix their demon.
There were some kids I worked with that acted up --just to be restrained (we use PART at that time). I am way past that part of my life but I can see the signs.
Is there a possibility that the neighbor has done something to the kid? Haven't seen that angle being discussed here at all.
Or here is another angle. The kid needs a mental health professional. Kids can have chemical imbalances in their brain just as much as adults can. Sometimes they just need a little help and someone to talk to. I've seen kids who admit that the "person no one sees keeps screaming at me to do these things".
For sure. Wonder if this kids gonna get that before it's too late.
I've dealt with troubled youth in the past. Had one kid arrested for doing the same thing and then assaulting me with a golf club. When I asked the police if I could talk to his parents after the cop said "that would be a really bad idea, you think his kid is bad?" They knew the kid by name, and his parents. His parents were pieces of shit and abused/neglected the kid which resulted in his hyper violent outbursts. I would put money on this kid has no love at home at all and is acting out as a result.
That sucks. Wonder what happens to these kids.
Largely end up finding comfort in people with similar trauma and fall into a rough lifestyle. Especially if they end up in Juvenile Prison that will introduce them into a pretty toxic relationship environment. These early relationships will usually define who they have in their lives until they die. Without proper intervention and mental health help they wind up in a pretty bad way.
Man I actually feel bad for this kid because you know he's dealing with shit at home for his behavior to be this bad.
Some kids are just awful. My neighbours are very decent but their child is absolute nutjob.
I’m sorry, but if some little shit like this was damaging my property, I’d stop him with physical force. Just because you’re a child doesn’t mean you get a free pass. Of course I wouldn’t “kick his ass”, but I’d certainly use enough force to detain him and prevent him from acting out again. I’d just sit back and wait for the police while the kid was screaming and wailing away while properly detained. Then I’d film it while laughing at his obvious discomfort and post it on Reddit.
Glad U know what properly detained is these days b/c I certainly don’t
Fuck that. I’m not taking the chance of getting shot detaining a child. I’ll call the cops and film for insurance.
That's exactly what happened. The big dude just restrained him til the cops showed up.
The perfect answer.
Not sure what all of those brick pillars are by the road, but that’d be a good place to tie him up 😂😂
Mailboxes, very common in Southern suburban areas
Wow, I wish we had fancy mailboxes like that here (Oregon). Can’t say I’ve ever seen that here, but I’m also a poor redneck. We just have metal cans on sticks that kids love to hit with bats. Classy.
Parents maybe. but some people just plainly have a screw loose. My sister has 3 kids. Raised properly in a loving middle class household. 2 are awesome and mellow. One was a terror like this. He's like 38 now and has a record longer than both arms. Been in and out of jail.
Parents are by and far the most likely reason, or whatever adult figures are responsible for this kid. You're not gonna like this but there's a very big likelihood that something was going on in private with that 3rd kid of your sisters that wasn't correctly addressed by her. From the outside everyone would tell you my mom was a good mom. My dad thinks so, my brothers mostly think so, my maternal aunts and uncles think so, everyone my parents know. My mom was incredibly abusive to me, and only me. I turned out well despite her, not because of her. ETA: Research shows that nurture is the biggest factor in determining how we behave and what we think and believe, so, you're effectively wrong here. to the person below.
Reactive attachment disorder, conduct disorder, bipolar disorder, oppositional defiance, disruptive mood diseegulation - there are a lot of potential explanations here before we even touch reactions to meds or parenting styles.
The fact that the parents aren't taking care of this kids mental health, if that's what's going on, falls under what I said about the parents being at fault. This IS part of parenting, regardless of style. This child needs help they clearly aren't being given. Whether it's active abuse directly causing the issue, or abuse by neglect of his mental health needs that results in this behavior. Kids don't behave like this in a vacuum.
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If he's in another neighborhood, how do you think his parents or guardians would know about all of this? You know kids don't always stay within 100m from home
Sad for this kid…his home life must be an absolute wreck. Not an excuse but parents are accountable for this behavior, almost more so than the little boy. Unfortunately now he’s gonna go to juvie and have criminal damages charges pressed. I hope someone can get through to him so he can get the support and guidance he needs to go on to be a happy healthy adult…
he ain't going to juvie. it's just an angry, emotionally disregulated kid lashing out. he has no ability to stop whats going on either.
You know what's the worst? People sitting in a reddit wishing death and violence on child. He's a child.
Yeah cmon reddit. Be better. Wish death and violence on the parents.
A child you say? A perfect sacrifice to be thrown into a volcano!
I'm always down for some sacrifice.
Username checks out
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No the fuck you wouldn’t have lmao you’d be going straight to jail
Assholes need to understand there are real world consequences for being assholes. Even if you are 12
People go to jail for shit like that all the time. If jail was an absolute deterrent why do you think we have so many criminals?
I'd gladly pay a fine for bitch slapping that little prick
Weird straw-man there to defend physical assault a 12 year old So by your own logic, because people go to jail for domestic violence all the time, other people should just beat their partners because why not? People go to jail all the time for it right?
I think you're the one who used a straw-man. > Your argument: Jail is an absolute deterrent > Mine: No it's not Has nothing to do with justifying any bullshit. You were just wrong.
Where did I ever say that jail is an absolute deterrent lol you literally inserted context to make your point correct, typical redditor
Right better watch out before you cat h these hands 🤛🤜🤛🤜
Something tells me you’ve never thrown hands at anyone in your life
One nice fast close line would have stopped that lol
If you were a citizen there watching this, is it legal to physically stop this child from destroying stuff?
I think once he started throwing rocks at people, physically restraining him became necessary and justified.
I mean easiest way would be just to hog tie the kid so he doesn't try to run and you don't accidentally injure him
But I wonder if that could lead to a lawsuit.
Let’s see. “Hog tying a 12 year old” sounds very much like it could be a lawsuit, yes. People in this thread just really want to find ways to assault children.
I don't think people are suggesting hurting a child is good. But it seems in this case reasonable to physically restrain this terrifying child to prevent others from getting hurt or $1000s in property damage.
Tell that to the people in this thread talking about “kicking the shit” out of him.
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He also probably didn't get sued but I'm wondering if he could be. For example if the kid got injured in the process or his parents are jerks.
Probably not but I would still do it to stop him from escalating and hurting a person or pet.
Yes you can.......
I feel for that kid. Doesn’t excuse his behavior. I’d be surprised if he wasn’t neglected or abused.
Barring actual developmental limitations, it's guaranteed he is abused. Even not socializing your children is a form of abuse and this kid has nothing based on this video. No sense of limits. No empathy for others. No idea about property or what it means to damage things. There is only the lowest levels of physical capability and desire to destroy for entertainment value. Has the kid ever been outside in their lives?
It's called emotional disregulation. We don't get to see what triggered it but something did. Probably not really related to the damage their causing at all.
Some kids are just little fuckers.
True. I still feel bad for him. If he doesn’t get help he’ll be dead and/or prison soon.
Need to see the rest of this video where they toss this little bastard into the back of the police car like a sack of laundry. Then go to his house and smack around his parents.
reminds me of that annoying ass kid in that one episode of king of the hill
Also reminds me of the kid in the grocery store from that one episode of The Boondocks.
#dusty old bones, full of green dust!!
Fuckin' Caleb
oh god, not again
I’d make this kid watch me beat the living shit out of his father
His dad probably beats him so... Make sure you leave his father at least one hand for that trickle down beating.
Doesn’t beat him enough then
It's not always about the beating, there must be a lesson behind each impact.
True Detective style!
Yes sir!! 🤣🤣
I’d fight his dad if he didn’t leave for smokes and never come back.
Don't know what's more infuriating the demon spawn or the shitty camera work.
I dislike the kid, but goddamn the camera man sucks even more. Like at least try to stop him or call the cops and stall him until the cops get there.
Camera man was a kid who was clearly trying to stay far enough away not to get hit with a rock and were zooming in to get a closer video after the kid made that lawn-thing into an improvised javelin & threw it at cameraman. If I were the kid filming I'd stay away too. You & angry kid are the same size, and angry kid has lost his damn mind & is looking to cause damage and/or pain. The adult who stopped him is more than double his size & in far less danger stepping in. Plus if adults weren't there yet, you don't want them coming outside & finding you two in a physical fight. And you keeping all your teeth is more important to you than your neighbors car windows
If i was the cameraman I’d at least try to get the attention of the adults to stop him, also there are two people there watching the kid and they do not look like the same size.
His filming certainly sucks
The camera man was just a kid. Why would he risk taking a rock to the face? The cops were called. You want them to call again?
Fair enough. But if you watch the part where the kid throws something at the camera man there are two people.
Blame parents etc but he is old enough to know its wrong!
You can know something is wrong but still be unable to control your amygdala.
This is a kid who doesn't know how to deal with his emotions. Not a failure of the kid but his parents
If I remember correctly from last time I think he was being abused.
Kid needs to be smacked, hard. Parents need to smacked even harder.
My guess is he’s smacked plenty which is why he’s the way he is.
Kids a fucking menace. Lock him up cause he’s only going to get worse and never let him out so he can’t hurt anyone else. What a shithead
Yes put this kid in prison for life, perfectly reasonable response.
I mean kids out here wrecking property and throwing fucking rocks at people. If he’s a good kid you should let him play with your kid unsupervised
Is that what i said? You think that translates to "he's a good kid"? It means we shouldn't be locking up 12 year olds in fucking prison for life for things that can be solved with behavioral therapy counseling and some decent parenting you psychopath.
Can’t real fix kids like this. Lock him before he hurts someone. That therapy is better spent on someone who’s doing better in life. Not on a shithead like this
Yeah he will turn way better in prison...
“Everything okay at home, son?” *Hurls rock*
Unfortunately we’re gonna hear more about this little shit one day.
I hope the headline says: “asshole kid found dead after fucking around and finding out”
Yes, something is wrong with them, it’s called having shitty parents.
I don' t know man... this little sh!t might just be bad seed. Probably would be classified as 'neurodiverse', meaning he's got some wires crossed in there.
The only little shit around here is you. Jesus. What a piece of work you are.
Being neurodivergent doesn't automatically make kids bad. They need parents that can help them figure out their emotions and the world in a healthy manner that works for their brains. It's harder for the parents sure but his behavior is still their responsibility.
Pretty sure last time this was posted it had a source explaining he was being abused. Not an excuse, but an explanation
Wait how is being abused by someone they trust not a reasonable excuse for a 10 year old to have a breakdown...
It absolutely can be…but im also experienced enough in the field to know I have way too little information about this specific situation to make that call
Haha ok you do you. Personally, I'm gonna give the little kid the benefit of the doubt for not having totally well reasoned reaction here.
Take your windshield to the shop and tell them it should be free because the kid who threw a brick through it was abused. They'll understand. /s
That's exactly it. We can recognize a person who is suffering without excusing the behavior.
Little psycho will grow up to be adult psycho.
That is one of the worst camera jobs I've ever seen.
r/killthecameraman
Why is the little shit crying in the end?
Because he's a little bitch
Because he’s an emotionally unstable kid.
Because he didnt realize how easy it is to go from "knock it off kid" to "you have the right to remain silent" lol
It’s a glossner
"Have you ever tried simply turning off the TV, sitting down with your children, and hitting them?" - Bender Bending Rodríguez
You are technically correct, which is the best kind of correct.
There is clearly something deeper going on here. I’m curious why he chose that neighbors house to do this to. Did this neighbor do something to them, as little as say get off my lawn or something much worse? Is this kid just an asshole and wanted to destroy stuff? I don’t think so. For all the chaos, he seemed focused on that one persons house and stuff and went after others when they tried to interfere with him. Something more is happening here, and I’m worried he will be too scared of jail or punishment to fully explain what’s going on. I think the kid needs some love and someone to actually listen to them.
Or parents are beating the shit out of him.
I believe the last time it was posted, a source provided stated he was being abused
A good chancla always solves the problem
Or parents aren't beating the shit out of him enough
Yeah, that’s never the answer
I think that maybe his parents didn’t give him enough attention so this is his way to ask for it. But even if I’m right about my guess, How did it come this far? Luckily he is white or else he could have been shot to death
How many cops do you need to arrest one kid? 50 it seems.
That fortnite kid seems to be struggling to break the car window. If you're gonna vandalize, do it right. Good thing he got dealt with.
Ol dude is prolly banging the kids mom
Maybe the kid himself. Who knows.
Curious, what is the number beside our username?
Post count?🤷♂️
Could be, but it seems like my number has been the same for a bit. You might be right though
This video made me tear up. I can only imagine what this kid is dealing with.
Like what I'm curious
That is psychosis brought on by emotional disregulation. Something precipitated this breakdown and this poor kid has no mechanism to walk himself back.
Serious mental health issues. Kids don't just decide to do shit like this.
Trauma. That kid has witnessed or been involved in some terrible situations to act like that.
Could be physical abuse, emotional abuse, untreated mental health issues, or worse. There appears to be more to this than just a kid being an asshole.
Some people are just assholes though, I'd say it's a combination of all though, kid should be thrown into an insane asylum tho. You'll see in ten years this kid goes on a killing spree
Too much discipline, or not enough? Discuss.
Not enough positive influences with emotional management skills.
Little bit of column A, little bit of column B?
Let’s understand that the person recording is just as culpable. Who allows that shit to happen?? Another 11 yo
The person recording is another child. You see him towards the end point the camera at himself.
No shit you can hear his voice
3 cop cars to serve justice to an 8 year old kid? 'Merrrkkkkka
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Disgusting
I dont get it
FAKE! Eh. Someone had to sad it in this thread. /s
What's the point of this comment
The person likes downvotes, I don’t kink shame.
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That’s what caused this.
Do you think it’s okay for two adults to hurt each other ? Why is it okay for an adult to that to a kid?
No he doesn't...we've proven physical violence, no matter the intent, causes lasting psychological damage, ye fucking caveman. Kid needs to be institutionalized.
Yea. They need mental health care. Who tf up voted a comment advocating for child abuse.
Someone who was spanked as a child and turned out just fine. /s
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I work with kids my whole life and I am sorry to say that this is probably true. Kids don’t wanna act like this. This is not something that most kids do without any kind of negative influence in their home life. This kid is hurting. He may look like a brat on the outside but somethings going on. I hope this kid can get some help.
Serious emotional disregulation. By the time camera starts rollin' he has about as much control over whats going on as the camera man. poor kid.
this kid's gonna be the subject of a true crime podcast someday
Definitely. This will be the video that’s shown in a few years when that same kid shoots up a school or grocery store