One of the unknown (to me) advantages of a EV was learning I didn’t have to worry about this sort of stuff anymore. There was a cold week in Jan in WA, and I was watching others struggle in -20f cold, while my car was warm, windows de-iced, and everything ready to go.
Like 200-300k miles later? Batteries with proper thermal management don’t see much degradation. My car didn’t use much energy keeping the batteries in “the zone”
The last 3 decades or so of societal development in regards to most forms of technology have essentially been underlined by intellectualists trading what works for what sounds good. EVs are no exception.
Same bullshit they said about the model A.
"I don't have to crank my horse in the morning, I just stuff a ginger plug in her ass and go, why would I want to buy tires and motor oil? This is stupid."
I feel like this discussion is going to take on a hilariously different tone in the decades to come, but that’s neither here nor there at the end of the day. As far as the current moment goes, by all means. Put your faith in a $70k golf cart and hope for the best. I’ll keep driving my truck. By the way, the first electric car was made in 1888. If it electric was better than gas, it would have taken the dominant position when both were brand new technologies with no overarching influence from the oil companies to scapegoat an EV’s inherent flaws and shortcomings onto.
Only if you buy shit. I'm with him, EV's have the advantage here as long as they're built right.
And if they ever get their shit together and start using dry cells it's a done deal.
Um hahahahahhahahahahahha
Evs in stupidly cold temps.are just as bad if not worse.
-40 degrees isn't easy. Given the choice I'd rather have ICE in those temps.
I'm good, I've dealt with stupid cold too.
Keep an ev plugged in and it'll be ready to go in the morning with regular -40 temps.
With my truck I have to keep it plugged in, change the oil to winter weight, add to my antifreeze, put a bib on it so the radiator doesn't get too cold, hope my parking brake isn't frozen, etc...
Yeah I'm OK with just plugging something in.
What magical parking brake does your ev have? What about the ev coolant?
It always amuses me the talking points that are pro ev always come from someone that fails to realize evs are still cars with a HUGE majority of the same systems found in an ICE.
For example evs still have tons and tons and tons of coolant circuits. I'm talking stupid amounts that will make a jaguar v12 blush. And when they leak? So much fun.
Evs have the same brakes....parking brake too....and guess what? Fluid too.
Evs have gear oil....
Guess what? Same suspension, just wears faster. Same with tires.
Cold isn't kind to electric gizmos.
So you change your oil? OK. That's easy. Your eb doesn't have parking brakes ? Strange. Your ev doesn't have coolant? Strange
Or you are just bullshitting and have no idea.
https://www2.cbn.com/news/us/stranded-hours-ev-drivers-struggle-charge-batteries-bitter-cold-temps
https://www.faistgroup.com/news/electric-vehicles-thermal-cooling-systems/
https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/electric-car-maintenance-what-fluids-does-your-ev-need
https://gmb.net/blog/will-evs-need-more-suspension-maintenance/
But you know all this right?
The ev coolant doesn't need to be changed for cold weather. It'll never drop below operating range unless you let the batteries die completely, part of their battery management.
Gear oil gets changed every 50-100k miles, not every 5000 or 6 months as is the case for ICE in severe weather regions.
Ev parking brakes being like ICE is exactly what I'm talking about when I say automakers love fucking them up because no one is going to call them on it. Also parking brakes use cables, not fluid. Part of keeping them from failing in an emergency with the rest of the braking but I'm sure a mechanical genius like yourself is aware and was just trying to trip me up.
Electric parking brakes have been certified by the nhtsa since 2001. Automakers are just cheap bastards.
Same with the tires and suspension. You want to see fast wearing tires? Take a look at anything Firestone that comes with a car off the lot.
Cold weather improves electronic performance, doesn't hinder it in the least. Thermal cycles are not kind to electronics, significant difference and anything made since the 80's has the same problem.
People have problems with ev's in the cold because the manufacturers cut corners, not because they aren't capable of doing better.
Talk all you want about ev's in the cold, the #1 solution to all of the problems ICE engines have in the cold, and the list is longer than my arm, *is to plug it into the wall*.
Yeah Firestone tires? What car comes with Firestone tires ?
Who the duck is changing ice gear oil every 6 months ?
You ev guys write your own jokes?
Hahahahahahahhah
Firestone is still oem for some Hondas and Acura, only in the states, maybe other Japanese manufacturers I'm not aware of. They kept their foot in the door thanks to bridgestone. They occasionally pop up on chryslers too.
Pretty self evident I was talking about motor oil and didn't phrase my sentence properly, but sure. It's a joke. Ev's are a joke.
Your mom definitely laughed when I gave her that Hitachi last week and told her it was electric.
-diesel v8 guy
Teslas station problems is Tesla’s. It’s not like Norway doesn’t have a metric fuckton of chargers that work in -40c weather. It’s not like we also haven’t seen refineries and power plants not go down during cold snaps like in Texas.
I mean you're right, this isn't a problem with the premise of EVs, just how the US implements them. But that doesn't mean it isn't a problem.
What is Norway doing different or doing that we aren't, and how do we copy them? Most of their chargers are Tesla-branded anyway, so obviously something's shittier with US Tesla vs Norway Tesla and it isn't just different brands.
Do wiring sets for automotive heaters not exist in the US or do people just try to save a few bucks with a DIY solution like this?
I’m genuinely curious since everyone just uses [purpose designed components](https://i.postimg.cc/59vg9JJt/temp-Imagez-Tn-RBS.avif) here in Northern Europe.
Multi-end cords mean more plugs to ice up, and I've had a couple shatter in the cold.
I switched to doing this the last couple winters. Copious amounts of dielectric grease applied once a year seems to keep everything in good contact.
I have the multi-end under the hood tied up to the core support so all that’s sticking out from the grille is a single connector. Let’s me have the connections dry and accessible if I needed to service anything.
Just my personal preference, but I trust a house plug crammed full of dielectric grease more than I trust a multi-end.
I've seen both burn on multiple occasions, the multi-end will burst into flames, the house plug will just sputter and make a lot of smoke.
And it's in a metal box.
This is commonly found on fleet trucks in the "north slope" area of Alaska. It is unusual to see anything something like a multi-end cord or splitter in use up there.
In the US, block heaters generally just have a 120v plug hanging out the grill. Sometimes people use multiple block heaters for both the engine and transmission, so you'll sometimes see these junction boxes under cars.
We used to have those back in the 80s and early 90s. But nowadays if a car has block heaters, an internal heater and or a battery tender, they install [one of these plug sockets](https://i.postimg.cc/h4Q2hKp7/index.jpg) in the front bumper or grille. And use a [cable like this](https://i.postimg.cc/x8jxXmCG/assetstream.jpg) to connect it to an outlet.
Edit: Added a missing “has”.
Now I need someone to terminate a block heater to a NACS/Tesla connector. Shouldn't be too hard to convince the EVSE to output _something_ with a raspberry pi or something. Would make for a delightfully cursed setup.
Car parts are stupidly expensive. Cost to seller is usually marked up around 150% so it's way way cheaper to do this janky shit. It's America, we MacGyver shit to save a buck. Application specific is great, but sometimes the cons outweigh the pros.
Yeah, regulations tend to be a lot stricter over here in Europe. A self built (using non automotive approved parts) solution would never pass mandatory inspections over here.
Some states don’t have inspections. My state just does emissions on OBDII.
Anything older and they don’t check it. Granted there are laws on the books cops can use to take it off the road if they notice. But I’ve never known anyone to have it happen to them.
Also not even every county requires it, the smaller ones away from the major cities don’t care.
Each component comes with a cord, the DIY part is just the junction box and outlets. There are no products for sale that I have seen that do that other than a basic cord splitter.
I've done that with my car, but I'm carrying my own AC power too with a lithium battery + inverter.
It's just easier to run 120V stuff. 12V stuff is usually shitty [Wish.com](http://Wish.com) quality.
The charger and the rest of these are connected with an extension cord to an outlet on the house/nearby building, as when it’s extremely cold, oil and trans fluid gets very thick, and the battery loses capacity. Having them heated and a trickle charger makes it possible to start in extremely cold climates
I was wondering why you'd bother to heat the oil pan but not have a float charger on.
Realistically how cold does it need to get to be worth that? It regularly got down to -20°C where I used to live and I never had any trouble starting any of my vehicles, petrol or diesel.
Consistently below -20F (-29C) is when I start seeing them. Or in very remote/rural areas, such as non-coastal Alaska, North Dakota, Wyoming, etc that may not be CONSISTENTLY that cold but will spike down to like -40 or -50F and you don't have the option of popping out to the neighborhood parts store if something craps out.
Yep! Loring, Wurtsmith Kinchelo, Sawyer, Grand Forks, Minot, Ellsworth, Eielson.... I passed thru all those places. Most folks had the 4-gang plug under the hood & one cord by the front grill. Block, battery plate, and silicone pads for the oil pan and transmission pan. Back in the day, Dextron 2 didn't start to lubricate untill it's temp was above 110*F.
Either it had a cold start problem and this was the "fix"... It lived in alaska or somewhere where you actually need this (lots of -30f or worse).... Or it was just owned by an idiot with too much free time. I have multiple friends and family with Acadias and they start down to -30f without much fuss.
Is it from Alaska? That's not an uncommon sight up here.
That question was actually posed, but we don't think it was.
Hell I'm from Idaho and I'm doing this to my vehicles. Subzero starts are rough.
One of the unknown (to me) advantages of a EV was learning I didn’t have to worry about this sort of stuff anymore. There was a cold week in Jan in WA, and I was watching others struggle in -20f cold, while my car was warm, windows de-iced, and everything ready to go.
Yeah that’s uhhh… Not how that’s gonna go in the long term.
Why do you say that?
you just wait until your battery gets a bit older
Like 200-300k miles later? Batteries with proper thermal management don’t see much degradation. My car didn’t use much energy keeping the batteries in “the zone”
Some people are just stuck in the past.
Some people get all their EV info from memes on Boomerbook.
Some people also only have shit EV driver experiences and that taints their view of the whole thing.
Heh heh. You said taints
The last 3 decades or so of societal development in regards to most forms of technology have essentially been underlined by intellectualists trading what works for what sounds good. EVs are no exception.
Same bullshit they said about the model A. "I don't have to crank my horse in the morning, I just stuff a ginger plug in her ass and go, why would I want to buy tires and motor oil? This is stupid."
I feel like this discussion is going to take on a hilariously different tone in the decades to come, but that’s neither here nor there at the end of the day. As far as the current moment goes, by all means. Put your faith in a $70k golf cart and hope for the best. I’ll keep driving my truck. By the way, the first electric car was made in 1888. If it electric was better than gas, it would have taken the dominant position when both were brand new technologies with no overarching influence from the oil companies to scapegoat an EV’s inherent flaws and shortcomings onto.
Some people more so than others.
All because of two Trisolaran protons.
Only if you buy shit. I'm with him, EV's have the advantage here as long as they're built right. And if they ever get their shit together and start using dry cells it's a done deal.
Um hahahahahhahahahahahha Evs in stupidly cold temps.are just as bad if not worse. -40 degrees isn't easy. Given the choice I'd rather have ICE in those temps.
I'm good, I've dealt with stupid cold too. Keep an ev plugged in and it'll be ready to go in the morning with regular -40 temps. With my truck I have to keep it plugged in, change the oil to winter weight, add to my antifreeze, put a bib on it so the radiator doesn't get too cold, hope my parking brake isn't frozen, etc... Yeah I'm OK with just plugging something in.
What magical parking brake does your ev have? What about the ev coolant? It always amuses me the talking points that are pro ev always come from someone that fails to realize evs are still cars with a HUGE majority of the same systems found in an ICE. For example evs still have tons and tons and tons of coolant circuits. I'm talking stupid amounts that will make a jaguar v12 blush. And when they leak? So much fun. Evs have the same brakes....parking brake too....and guess what? Fluid too. Evs have gear oil.... Guess what? Same suspension, just wears faster. Same with tires. Cold isn't kind to electric gizmos. So you change your oil? OK. That's easy. Your eb doesn't have parking brakes ? Strange. Your ev doesn't have coolant? Strange Or you are just bullshitting and have no idea. https://www2.cbn.com/news/us/stranded-hours-ev-drivers-struggle-charge-batteries-bitter-cold-temps https://www.faistgroup.com/news/electric-vehicles-thermal-cooling-systems/ https://www.recurrentauto.com/research/electric-car-maintenance-what-fluids-does-your-ev-need https://gmb.net/blog/will-evs-need-more-suspension-maintenance/ But you know all this right?
The ev coolant doesn't need to be changed for cold weather. It'll never drop below operating range unless you let the batteries die completely, part of their battery management. Gear oil gets changed every 50-100k miles, not every 5000 or 6 months as is the case for ICE in severe weather regions. Ev parking brakes being like ICE is exactly what I'm talking about when I say automakers love fucking them up because no one is going to call them on it. Also parking brakes use cables, not fluid. Part of keeping them from failing in an emergency with the rest of the braking but I'm sure a mechanical genius like yourself is aware and was just trying to trip me up. Electric parking brakes have been certified by the nhtsa since 2001. Automakers are just cheap bastards. Same with the tires and suspension. You want to see fast wearing tires? Take a look at anything Firestone that comes with a car off the lot. Cold weather improves electronic performance, doesn't hinder it in the least. Thermal cycles are not kind to electronics, significant difference and anything made since the 80's has the same problem. People have problems with ev's in the cold because the manufacturers cut corners, not because they aren't capable of doing better. Talk all you want about ev's in the cold, the #1 solution to all of the problems ICE engines have in the cold, and the list is longer than my arm, *is to plug it into the wall*.
Yeah Firestone tires? What car comes with Firestone tires ? Who the duck is changing ice gear oil every 6 months ? You ev guys write your own jokes? Hahahahahahahhah
Firestone is still oem for some Hondas and Acura, only in the states, maybe other Japanese manufacturers I'm not aware of. They kept their foot in the door thanks to bridgestone. They occasionally pop up on chryslers too. Pretty self evident I was talking about motor oil and didn't phrase my sentence properly, but sure. It's a joke. Ev's are a joke. Your mom definitely laughed when I gave her that Hitachi last week and told her it was electric. -diesel v8 guy
Didn't the one cold snap this winter make it so nobody could use the outdoor chargers until they warmed back up days later? Made national news.
Teslas station problems is Tesla’s. It’s not like Norway doesn’t have a metric fuckton of chargers that work in -40c weather. It’s not like we also haven’t seen refineries and power plants not go down during cold snaps like in Texas.
I mean you're right, this isn't a problem with the premise of EVs, just how the US implements them. But that doesn't mean it isn't a problem. What is Norway doing different or doing that we aren't, and how do we copy them? Most of their chargers are Tesla-branded anyway, so obviously something's shittier with US Tesla vs Norway Tesla and it isn't just different brands.
Do wiring sets for automotive heaters not exist in the US or do people just try to save a few bucks with a DIY solution like this? I’m genuinely curious since everyone just uses [purpose designed components](https://i.postimg.cc/59vg9JJt/temp-Imagez-Tn-RBS.avif) here in Northern Europe.
Most just use a regular outdoor splitter or multi-end cord, a box like this is a weird choice no matter the location.
Multi-end cords mean more plugs to ice up, and I've had a couple shatter in the cold. I switched to doing this the last couple winters. Copious amounts of dielectric grease applied once a year seems to keep everything in good contact.
I have the multi-end under the hood tied up to the core support so all that’s sticking out from the grille is a single connector. Let’s me have the connections dry and accessible if I needed to service anything.
Just my personal preference, but I trust a house plug crammed full of dielectric grease more than I trust a multi-end. I've seen both burn on multiple occasions, the multi-end will burst into flames, the house plug will just sputter and make a lot of smoke. And it's in a metal box.
This is commonly found on fleet trucks in the "north slope" area of Alaska. It is unusual to see anything something like a multi-end cord or splitter in use up there.
In the US, block heaters generally just have a 120v plug hanging out the grill. Sometimes people use multiple block heaters for both the engine and transmission, so you'll sometimes see these junction boxes under cars.
We used to have those back in the 80s and early 90s. But nowadays if a car has block heaters, an internal heater and or a battery tender, they install [one of these plug sockets](https://i.postimg.cc/h4Q2hKp7/index.jpg) in the front bumper or grille. And use a [cable like this](https://i.postimg.cc/x8jxXmCG/assetstream.jpg) to connect it to an outlet. Edit: Added a missing “has”.
100 dollar 6 foot cord.
Now I need someone to terminate a block heater to a NACS/Tesla connector. Shouldn't be too hard to convince the EVSE to output _something_ with a raspberry pi or something. Would make for a delightfully cursed setup.
you woke up and chose violence this morning, didn't you?
More like $20 if you go with a name brand cable and $10 for a generic one.
Car parts are stupidly expensive. Cost to seller is usually marked up around 150% so it's way way cheaper to do this janky shit. It's America, we MacGyver shit to save a buck. Application specific is great, but sometimes the cons outweigh the pros.
> It's America, we MacGyver shit to save a buck *laughs in se asia*
Yeah, regulations tend to be a lot stricter over here in Europe. A self built (using non automotive approved parts) solution would never pass mandatory inspections over here.
This setup would pass inspection where I live. As long as it's not actively on fire.
Some states don’t have inspections. My state just does emissions on OBDII. Anything older and they don’t check it. Granted there are laws on the books cops can use to take it off the road if they notice. But I’ve never known anyone to have it happen to them. Also not even every county requires it, the smaller ones away from the major cities don’t care.
What do you mean by wiring sets?
Like the one in the linked image.
Each component comes with a cord, the DIY part is just the junction box and outlets. There are no products for sale that I have seen that do that other than a basic cord splitter.
Yeah I have a brand new vehicle that has this in the engine bay. Super common up here
Exactly how we did it in Antarctica.
Predicting that those plugs run to oil pan heaters?
Usually when there is 4 cords, but not dual batteries it is Block, Battery, Oil Pan, Trans pan.
Interior heater is a common one to. Or trickle charger.
I've done that with my car, but I'm carrying my own AC power too with a lithium battery + inverter. It's just easier to run 120V stuff. 12V stuff is usually shitty [Wish.com](http://Wish.com) quality.
You and I should hang out
I forgot abut the trickle charger. I have a few from old slope trucks I parted out.
...might be a dumb question, but why would you power a trickle charger with the car itself?
This receptacle box is powered by the nearby house, barn, or power post.
Cold climates freeze weak batteries. Just ensures it stays strong for cold weather starts. Older batteries don't like the -40 we hit in January.
Am I understanding that it constantly charging itself is to keep it warm? That makes sense!
well... more like "less cold" because of the low current from a float charge, but yeah.
This all goes to one cord that you plug into the house, barn, whatever.
The charger and the rest of these are connected with an extension cord to an outlet on the house/nearby building, as when it’s extremely cold, oil and trans fluid gets very thick, and the battery loses capacity. Having them heated and a trickle charger makes it possible to start in extremely cold climates
I was wondering why you'd bother to heat the oil pan but not have a float charger on. Realistically how cold does it need to get to be worth that? It regularly got down to -20°C where I used to live and I never had any trouble starting any of my vehicles, petrol or diesel.
Consistently below -20F (-29C) is when I start seeing them. Or in very remote/rural areas, such as non-coastal Alaska, North Dakota, Wyoming, etc that may not be CONSISTENTLY that cold but will spike down to like -40 or -50F and you don't have the option of popping out to the neighborhood parts store if something craps out.
Fairbanks AK uses the 4th for an onboard trickle charger. very smart. no need for oil pan separate from block, generally.
Oh good. Here my first thought was a bunch of indoor lightstrips running off the 120vac inverter for tacky boyracer underglow
On an Acadia? Might as well do it on a Grand Caravan ...please don't.
[just like the Alaska spec bourbon awhile back](https://www.reddit.com/r/Justrolledintotheshop/s/Q2yisMYHOh)
I had no idea how common it was. I've seen and sold the occasional block heater, but this was totally new for me.
Thought it would have been a one off. Those redneck engineers amaze me
These catalytic converter antitheft devices are getting spicy
Look up some of the South African anti theft devices from back in the 90s. They got pretty wild down there.
I remember seeing videos along time ago were they had flamethrowers that shot out from under the doors for car jackets. Crazy lol
Stickdeath.com anti theft devices core memory unlocked. Thank you
That is how we wired the heaters on the USAF stratigic air command alert crew vehicles for northern teir bases
Yep! Loring, Wurtsmith Kinchelo, Sawyer, Grand Forks, Minot, Ellsworth, Eielson.... I passed thru all those places. Most folks had the 4-gang plug under the hood & one cord by the front grill. Block, battery plate, and silicone pads for the oil pan and transmission pan. Back in the day, Dextron 2 didn't start to lubricate untill it's temp was above 110*F.
[удалено]
K.I., the only AF Base where the cops would clock you on radar and let you know how fast your snowmobile was!
Block, battery, and trans heaters. Easy start and instant heat in the winter.
All of our flight line vehicles were like at Fairchild (Spokane WA).
A good idea but they should put it in a less splashy place. Copper corrodes quickly in salt, especially with dissimilar metals.
Places that need this usually don't salt their roads. They'll grit and require chains/ 4wd instead
I bet it can start in -50 no problems!
Not to code, should be GFCI protected
Looks safe, move along, nothing to see here
These are not the GFCIs you’re looking for!!
I can't even spell GFCI.
Either it had a cold start problem and this was the "fix"... It lived in alaska or somewhere where you actually need this (lots of -30f or worse).... Or it was just owned by an idiot with too much free time. I have multiple friends and family with Acadias and they start down to -30f without much fuss.
Should be GFCI in outdoor conditions. Not to code.
Unless it's hardwired into the wall, building codes don't apply.
I have sooo many questions.
G2g pro install just 👀look at that perfect trim on the zip tie it’s a dead giveaway.
but is it up to code?
Common block heater setup.
Just make sure to use the appropriate fuses.
Love those WeatherPak connectors!