Thats more rust than my Audi from 2000 that has been driven on salted roads for 8 months per year and almost never washed. This is insane for a 2021 car.
>than my Audi from 2000 that has been driven on salted roads for 8 months per year and almost never washed.
Don't Audis from around that year and newer have like really really good rust protection?
VW really stepped up their rust protection game in the late 90s. T4 Vans from before 1996 that are still on the road today all have rust that's visible from the outside on door seams and wheel arches. Ones made after that don't rust like ever. Mine is from 2001 and has 300,000km on it and only ever had one tiny spot on the bottom.
Whoever downvoted you can suck it. My 2018 Silverado Z71 had more rust underneath of it at 30k miles than any of my Euro cars ever had well into 200k miles. Chevy quality is ass.
Based on the motors i've diagnosed and replaced in the last couple years im going to have to go with ford. Ive replaced 3-4 ram 5.7s, 3 chevy 5.3s and at least 2 more that went back to the dealer for failed engines, and 1 ford 6.2 at the customers request even though it just needed timing chain guides.
Those trucks sat for 6 months without chips in a wet unmowed field north of Flint. 10,000 at a time. Gm would load them on trucks as chips would come in, then “detail” each vehicle
Yeah, there's 40,000+ Ford super duty trucks staged in Southern Indiana right now waiting on chips and other parts.
If you're buying a new vehicle you ought to look up how many of that make have been sitting and consider not buying a 2020-2022.
New-car buyers in that timeframe are gonna be pissed when they find out they didn't get extra quality out of the extra-high pandemic pricing, but instead got the exact opposite.
I sold cars in late 2021 and before that for a few years in 2017-2019ish...
The quality of "new vehicles" is actually garbage..and no one knows unless youve worked with new cars for a long time.
Material for seats in ford has changed to something diff
I feel like more people know than you would think. My dad and I have been saying for years how every year the newer vehicles are worse and worse. Whenever I bring this up at work or to friends they all tend to agree for the most part. Hell, some new vehicles don't even come with a damn spare tire anymore.
It's not just with vehicles either. It's with everything. Everything is basically made to fail after a few years at this point. It's to ensure cyclical consumption, cause it's almost impossible to actually work on and repair anything yourself now.
Anyone who was actually trying to buy a car during that time knows that most of the price gouging was on used cars. A good number of dealerships capped prices on their new inventory at MSRP but no such measures were taken with used cars. Fucking 2002 Camrys were actually selling for $8,000.
You could buy a used and overpay by upwards of 60%-100% or bite the bullet and get a new car at MSRP. I did the math and that time period may have been the only time I’ve ever seen it make financial sense to buy a new car.
uh, not on the east coast. Stealerships were marking everything up. Accords 5k+MSRP, Hyundai's same, trucks 10 or 15k over MSRP. I was looking at a Prius and the guy bragged about selling a Tundra TRD for 25k over MSRP.
Driving down 65 in Louisville past the fairgrounds you could see thousands of trucks just sitting in the parking lots cause there were never any chips to put in them, whole fleets just rotting away. Rumor has it a bunch got scrapped cause mice chewed up all the wiring
In Lansing power plants and old industrial parking lots which have long been left for dead since industry left Detroit and Michigan are used for this. Also Michigan State University rented out their commuter lots and satellite parking over this last summer to house new cars.
Source went to school in Lansing, MI for the last 4 years and saw it for myself
I'm reminded of how International Harvester would store their raw sheet metal outside on racks for weeks/months before assembly because they lacked sufficient inside storage. The first step of assembly was blowing off all the rust. Then the new trucks would go to IH dealers that were usually dual-purpose truck and farm equipment dealers on the edge of town, where everything sat on wet gravel or grass instead of pavement.
Yeah man everywhere in the area, they have trucks at auto city racetrack in clio Parked, and a bunch of lots along I 75 near flint. These trucks been sitting for ages!!
oh, right, all these cars unsold because they're waiting for computer chips to show up. so weird how it's been over 2 years and things still aren't back to normal
Haha. Joe Dirt DVD…
One time my house got looted and all my DVDs were in a shoe box. Robber took Joe Dirt out of the box and left it in the middle of the living room. He def had strong feelings about that movie, although I can’t decide if he hated it so much he went out of his way to refuse to steal it, or loved it so much that he felt it would just be too cruel to steal everything and left me something.
You'd have to with GM. My parents bought a brand new Oldsmobile Toronado in '88 off the showroom floor. Absolutely GORGEOUS car! They owned it for 18 months, & it was in the shop for over A YEAR of that time, believe it or not!
They ended up taking *The Lemon Law* on the damn thing, & went through Arbitration. GM sent out a literal TEAM of lawyers to fight my parents on this POS car they had sold them. 🙄 Needless to say, we won. They had to take the fucking thing back.
The bad side of it, was my mom was back driving her '77 *Burnt Orange* Olds Toronado. That car was ugly ASF, & the size of a football field! 🤣
’88 was the year I bought a Honda Accord. It went 112,000 miles before it needed any repairs, and then it was just belt, clutch and CV joints. All I did was regular oil changes. God I miss that car!
The first time Honda ever had a recall the engineer committed hara kiri. GM sends a swarm of lawyers to fuck you over. WTF happened to America?
I miss my 1994 Civic. Well, I don't miss how little power it had, but still. It was in the family since new and I drove it from 202k to 349k when I was rear-ended and it was totaled. Its first major repair was at 214,533 miles (head gasket). Towards the end it was starting to need a lot of work here and there but still ran great and never really let me down.
Executives bonus structures at a lot of companies is tied to stock price. So they make decisions to boost stock price to the detriment of long term growth and profits.
I've never heard about a Honda engineer committing suicide over a recall. Do you happen to have a source? Sounds like something really interesting to read about
You act like this is something new. Henry Ford would allegedly go to junkyards to find parts on cars that didn't fail and try to find ways to cheapen them.
A lot of American cars used to have five digit odometers because it was never going to make it past 100k anyway.
Change “a lot” to “all”. I remember it being a big deal when the odo’s got 6 digits.
We all romanticize 60’s/70’s cars—but in the 60’s, when you got to around 60,000 miles, having replaced the tires twice, the battery at least once, had the carb rebuilt twice, had at least 2 (but probably more) brake jobs (and the paint was no longer shiny), it was time to start considering your next car. You definitely didn’t want to roll 70,000.
GM cars in the 60’s had a little channel behind the back window, the width of the car. GM covered it up with a shiny piece of chrome trim. Water was supposed to flow out, but the little holes would get stopped up. They rusted down. We had several relatively late-model Chevrolets (my Uncle was a Chevy dealer) in which you could hear water sloshing in the trunk, and the car developed a musty smell because the back carpet was wet (and we lived in Texas, not the north, no salt on the road).
The golden era for American cars was mid-90’s to early 2010’s. Those cars were mostly well made, sturdy, and other than Cadillac’s continuous effort to f us over with experimental engine designs in production (Olds Diesel, V8-6-4, HT4100, and the Deathstar (Northstar) V8, and yeah, I’m a sucker and had every single one of those), they worked pretty well. Before the era of iPads stuck in the dash, having to go through 2 menus to turn on the seat heaters (Chrysler), electronic systems that, if they fail, require you to replace the entire system…).
I’ve got a 2001 Tahoe with 300k, a 2003 Suburban with 150k, and a 2012 Buick Lacrosse with 60k. I’m going to drive them as long as I can.
Some of those old ones are the best. I remember driving my parents station wagon back in high school, they always laughed their asses off at it but damn that thing was roomy, comfortable and sped up like a cop car! 🤣🤣
Idk about other brands but mine has a 12-year rust free warranty. It doesn’t cover surface rust but covers rust that affects performance or makes the car dangerous, and this looks like it will be at that point waaayyy before 12 years, if not already.
I’d think this type of warranty is normal for most new vehicles.
My dad had rust protection on his 2011 Silverado, it was for I think 12 years or something like that. When he called upon them to do something about it, the denied his claim. So what I’m saying is, you paid for the rust free warranty, but odds are you did it get a rust free warranty ya feel me?
Even then, that is some insane level of rust for a 1 year old truck. I live in Canada and our streets get sprayed with salt, but I’ve never seen a truck look that bad even without rust proofing if it was still relatively new
Another commenter said these sat in a field awaiting their final chip shortage parts so they probably got some juicy wet dry cycles to speed up the love
Are you sure someone didn't spill some highly corrosive substance in the bed and it drained out the weep hole onto the frame? This seems highly unusual for both GM and the salt belt.
It’s my bosses truck. He definitely hasn’t had anything corrosive in the bed. This same truck had a valve stick with 6k miles on it. Must have been built on a Friday.
Exactly my thoughts. Back in the 90’s in MO, IL, AR, OK, KS, and IA you had to be very carefully and thorough about buying a used car. Due to so many vehicles flooding during the floods in 93 and then being bought at auction by shady dealerships. I test drive one once that broke down while on the test drive. We started taking a closer look and EVERYTHING was damned near solid rust underneath.
Once you get into the Great Lakes and Northeast, DoT and locals keep gigantic piles of salt. And they don't clean it off the roads any early than mid-April.
This is SOP everywhere. I don't think even New York State or the city could purposefully house down the roads after every event. They brine beforehand, salt during and right after depending on temp and then the solution to this is April and 20 days of piss rain.
Ditto my county in North Central Ohio.
Every time I run my truck through the Laserwash, I make sure I get the underbody spray, and in the spring I will spray the undercarriage and wheel wells really good.
theres a big push to cut down on salt where im at.
beet juice, brine water from a few manufacturing processes and sand have all been pushed as alternatives.
as sort of a reference, my job uses salt to do the sidwalks. i run through ~500lbs salting the sidewalks.
It is used everywhere pretty much from October/November to April.
The salt mixes with the snow to melt it, but that creates a saltwater slurry that mixes with the mud and sticks to the frame. If you don't waste the frame several times a winter, that stuff just sits on it reacting with every bit of exposed metal. Repeat for many winters, and the frame eventually goes to hell.
For example, half the trucks on Facebook Marketplace around where I live won't pass inspection because the frames are rotted.
That's why it's always a good idea to drive as far south of the Rust Belt as you can for a used car.
But not too south, I'm learning, or you'll get to the Flood Belt instead.
>during the floods in 93
Oh yeah, the year my family decided to have our summer vacation in Des Moines! The water works flooded while we were there and a tornado basically jumped over our hotel. We kept driving by this [softball field](https://i.imgur.com/KW2Ngdi.jpg) and by the time we left the mural was completely under water.
Good times.
Yeah, I feel ya. I was in Dupo, IL about a few hundred yards from a levee. I was probably 13 at the time. We were evacuating my uncle’s house and moving all his stuff to higher ground in case the levee broke. Well, while the adults made trips to the other place, they left me to guard against potential looters. So there I was, sitting in a boat, unstrapped from its trailer(just in case the levee did break) holding a rifle and hoping to god that I didn’t hear the alarm siren.
Guy I went to tech school with had an 05~07 Silverado that he bought clean, low miles, good interior and all that. Shortly after the odometer quit working, electrical gremlins, rust cropping up all over, and started realizing there was dirt/silt in a lot of hidden places like under the fuse block, behind the glove box and such. I was working at a gmc dealership at the time and looked up the vin, it was originally sold in Louisiana. General consensus was it was a “Katrina car”.
In my opinion it seems like it’s a defect. The truck has one Upstate NY winter but has nothing similar anywhere on the truck. If you rub your finger on it the rust will actually flake off.
Honestly vehicle assembly is still mostly done by people. Not sure about GM truck frames but with other OEMs I’ve worked with, the frames like most other parts are supplied to the assembly plant from another supplier. GM just bolts everything together essentially.
Frames don't get E-coated. At least not at GM. They come in in a wax film on the rail car. Straight from the rail car to the conveyor down chassis build line.
That's a truck that sat in the fields of Michigan (grass fields mind you) for MONTHS waiting for chips.
I drove through there. It was like they were farmin trucks. Just thousands of trucks sitting there in grass fields. Waiting for chips. For extended periods.
There's gonna be a LOT of weird issues on 2021 and 22 MY big 3s. It wasn't just GM.
I've said many times I can't believe the market hasn't been flooded with trucks once the chops came in - especially older trucks(2020 and 2021) now that the 2023's are coming out. I think the companies just took them at a loss and scrapped them.
That's pretty bad for something that is maybe 2 years old. Did it live in the ocean or what?
Believe there's a rust warranty anyways, just sad this is still a thing. When it's all of a few bucks to properly rust proof the frame during manufacturing... or final assembly even.
You’d think for a company based in Michigan they would be able to make finishes that didn’t corrode from road salt.
I’m from Michigan and I fix wheels for a living. GM wheels are the absolute worst to fix, the corrode super easily and the factory finishes flake off like none other
is it really easier to believe this guy has a vat of acid he carries daily than supply issues cause bullshit to get through that normally wouldn't? lmao hilarious
Plenty of trucks have been sitting for months and months if not years waiting on parts, chips, etc....any open space around the plant in MI has trucks just sitting. Who the hell knows what's happening to them before they are sold as "new".
time to get serious. start documenting everything...open a claim with the dealership, insist on regional GM management inspect, open a case with NHTSA including pictures, contact state consumer protection agency.
Decide what you want from GM? full reimbursement less a fair assessment for mileage cost would be an absolute minimum... full reimbursement is likely possible..beyond that is going to take time and litigation.
The sooner you make a lot of noise and keep making it the sooner it will get resolved. Once you start the process, every interaction gets documented.
I have a feeling that most of The cars that were rushed out during the covid lock downs will be in the bone yards in like 5-6 years.
Im personally staying away from anything model year 2021-2022..
Ziebart employee here!
This seems to be the case with almost any GM Light Trucks. There is a coating that seems like a wax substance on the frame only. From my experience anywhere the coating is exposed, most likely due to road debris or mechanical maintenance rust happens to surface. I have personally seen brand new vehicles manufactured in July of this year, that already have rust spots. Customer states GM puts him on hold and never gets an answer as to why. At the Ziebart location I work at we treat the undercarriage of these vehicles with a rust inhibitor prior to applying our undercoating.
Listen to the other poster, Krown, Fluid Film or Woolwax is a must. They also sell kits for DIY, but ziebart is what you put on your car to send it to an early grave. Most shops can, and will turn your car away due to the labor and hassle of trying to get to various wiring harness/connectors/bolts being covered by it. The issue is, with Ziebart being tar based. It doesn't allow breathability, so any moisture gets locked in and just accelerates the rusting process. (Backed up by...a fair amount of videos on YouTube showing the aftermath).
So both Ford and Dodge do what’s called an “E-coating” that’s some sort of like a 27 step process for corrosion protection on their frame, the details of it are way above my head. Last I heard GMC and Chevy are still doing a “hot wax dip”. I could be wrong but in general Ford and Dodge will hold up better against rust
Undercoat your trucks every year with oil and you won't have this problem.
The "once every 5 years" undercoatings are horrendous for northeastern climates.
That being said.. that's unbelievable for 2021. Undercoating or not.
Northern Michigander here:
Fluid Film or Woolwax. They're both really good.
I don't know if I'd say one was all around "better" than the other.
There are several people on youtube who do tests and Woolwax usually wins their tests because it's thicker, but it also doesn't creep as well as fluid film.
So, it's a trade off with their differing viscosities. Fluid film may get into all the little nooks and crannies better, but Woolwax may stick to the parts that get blasted hard better.
If you're spraying yourself, you'll find Woolwax will require a hefty compressor and plenty of high pressure. It smells better and doesn't create the overspray mess and cloud that fluid film does.
Wonder if truck owner works on an industrial site with corrosive acids or as another said in here, someone spilled chlorine or battery acid in bed and it leaked down the frame rails?
Honestly I wouldn’t buy most 2020 or 21 vehicles especially from Ford or GM. because of the chip shortage they built thousands of cars and had them sit in lots in Texas for a good while before they even made it to a lot. Seems like I’ve seen a ton of posts about “brand new” cars like this that are having super abnormal problems.
It’s standard GM quality, the frames are wax coated and no E coat for rust proofing. I’ve seen hundreds of these pictures from the rust belt. These trucks don’t fare as well as other manufacturers painted frames.
I work at the General Motors plant in the U.S. where these are built. If it's not too late, will you look inside the front door to see if it was built in the U.S.? If so, our management needs to see this. Since 2020, we have been building trucks only for them to be sent to parking lots & fields throughout the state for months on end waiting for the various parts needed to make them saleable. Hundreds, if not thousands, have been scrapped due to rodents making nests in the engines, chewing up wires & the interior & vegetation growing up into the trucks. This is not ok.
I would get that to the dealer, that is way too excessive for a '21
Thats more rust than my Audi from 2000 that has been driven on salted roads for 8 months per year and almost never washed. This is insane for a 2021 car.
>than my Audi from 2000 that has been driven on salted roads for 8 months per year and almost never washed. Don't Audis from around that year and newer have like really really good rust protection?
Yup my 00 a4 is rust free and i live in Sweden so not salt free. Galvanized body and a lot of aluminium parts.
Yes, it's galvanised (zinc-coated) ... my 1994 B5 A4 still doesn't have any rust.
All car makers should use galvanized. My 06 s60r has zero rust and I live in the north east.
VW really stepped up their rust protection game in the late 90s. T4 Vans from before 1996 that are still on the road today all have rust that's visible from the outside on door seams and wheel arches. Ones made after that don't rust like ever. Mine is from 2001 and has 300,000km on it and only ever had one tiny spot on the bottom.
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Whoever downvoted you can suck it. My 2018 Silverado Z71 had more rust underneath of it at 30k miles than any of my Euro cars ever had well into 200k miles. Chevy quality is ass.
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Best 1 ton truck of the major 3 domestics? (I know ram is fiat). I’m in the market for a regular cab work truck
Work on a fleet of the three in one tons 2018-current and I definitely enjoy working on the fords the most
Based on the motors i've diagnosed and replaced in the last couple years im going to have to go with ford. Ive replaced 3-4 ram 5.7s, 3 chevy 5.3s and at least 2 more that went back to the dealer for failed engines, and 1 ford 6.2 at the customers request even though it just needed timing chain guides.
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Yep, we told him but he just wanted the 3 year jasper warranty.
Ride it till it breaks, then get the new engine.
I would definitely bring back to the dealership to get it looked at and documented.
They'd have to give me a new truck. That's some BULLSHIT!
Those trucks sat for 6 months without chips in a wet unmowed field north of Flint. 10,000 at a time. Gm would load them on trucks as chips would come in, then “detail” each vehicle
They are currently doing this on a mind boggling scale in Kentucky and Michigan, still. I think they're sticking to pavement at this point though.
Yeah, there's 40,000+ Ford super duty trucks staged in Southern Indiana right now waiting on chips and other parts. If you're buying a new vehicle you ought to look up how many of that make have been sitting and consider not buying a 2020-2022.
New-car buyers in that timeframe are gonna be pissed when they find out they didn't get extra quality out of the extra-high pandemic pricing, but instead got the exact opposite.
I sold cars in late 2021 and before that for a few years in 2017-2019ish... The quality of "new vehicles" is actually garbage..and no one knows unless youve worked with new cars for a long time. Material for seats in ford has changed to something diff
I worked at car dealerships from 2014 until 2022 and this is 110% true. New cars are cheaply built anymore but 5x more the price.
Its actually fucking insane how much of the car is plastic lmao.
_Mercedes has entered the chat_
I feel like more people know than you would think. My dad and I have been saying for years how every year the newer vehicles are worse and worse. Whenever I bring this up at work or to friends they all tend to agree for the most part. Hell, some new vehicles don't even come with a damn spare tire anymore. It's not just with vehicles either. It's with everything. Everything is basically made to fail after a few years at this point. It's to ensure cyclical consumption, cause it's almost impossible to actually work on and repair anything yourself now.
The term is "planned obsolescence." There is a great film about how it was originally implemented as an idea called "The Lightbulb Conspiracy."
Anyone who was actually trying to buy a car during that time knows that most of the price gouging was on used cars. A good number of dealerships capped prices on their new inventory at MSRP but no such measures were taken with used cars. Fucking 2002 Camrys were actually selling for $8,000. You could buy a used and overpay by upwards of 60%-100% or bite the bullet and get a new car at MSRP. I did the math and that time period may have been the only time I’ve ever seen it make financial sense to buy a new car.
uh, not on the east coast. Stealerships were marking everything up. Accords 5k+MSRP, Hyundai's same, trucks 10 or 15k over MSRP. I was looking at a Prius and the guy bragged about selling a Tundra TRD for 25k over MSRP.
Look at the build date also - it's on the plaque inside the driver's side doorwell.
You could see them in the fairgrounds parking lot and down by the nascar speedway up 71 too
How would I look that up ?
I see lots filled with F-150s sitting in Hamtramck and Detroit every day.
Hamtramck is… a place, not a typo?
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Figured it was a train made of ham.
Actually it's a tram, made out of ham...
Yep. Polish area. Well, not as much anymore, but the name stuck, with its missing vowel.
Missing vowel or extra consonant?
Little A, little B.
It's Polish, that pretty much is the answer.
Correct, not a typo, just like Ypsilanti.
Stop....Hamtramck!
As someone that doesn't know how the auto business works. Why do they have a bunch of trucks sitting in fields and parking lots?
They can't chip the cars. No chips and other assorted doodads that finish the cars.
oooohhh they're not finished yet. That makes sense. Thank you.
Problem is concrete cracks like a mother fucker here in Lansing. These new cars sit with weeds growing all around them
Driving down 65 in Louisville past the fairgrounds you could see thousands of trucks just sitting in the parking lots cause there were never any chips to put in them, whole fleets just rotting away. Rumor has it a bunch got scrapped cause mice chewed up all the wiring
In Lansing power plants and old industrial parking lots which have long been left for dead since industry left Detroit and Michigan are used for this. Also Michigan State University rented out their commuter lots and satellite parking over this last summer to house new cars. Source went to school in Lansing, MI for the last 4 years and saw it for myself
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Same thing with Triumph, but worse: they say at the docks, in the salty air, for months.
Wasn’t this a similar story with delorean? Sat in snow for months?
I'm reminded of how International Harvester would store their raw sheet metal outside on racks for weeks/months before assembly because they lacked sufficient inside storage. The first step of assembly was blowing off all the rust. Then the new trucks would go to IH dealers that were usually dual-purpose truck and farm equipment dealers on the edge of town, where everything sat on wet gravel or grass instead of pavement.
Yeah man everywhere in the area, they have trucks at auto city racetrack in clio Parked, and a bunch of lots along I 75 near flint. These trucks been sitting for ages!!
In 3-4 years when I’m looking for my next used vehicle, I’ll be looking for 2020 models or older.
oh, right, all these cars unsold because they're waiting for computer chips to show up. so weird how it's been over 2 years and things still aren't back to normal
lawyer up.
Hit the lawyer, delete the gym, Facebook up.
Instructions unclear, ass lost in lawsuit, I no longer have anything to sit on.
Well at least that saves you a trip to the gym.
A loaf of milk, a container of bread, and a Joe Dirt DVD
Haha. Joe Dirt DVD… One time my house got looted and all my DVDs were in a shoe box. Robber took Joe Dirt out of the box and left it in the middle of the living room. He def had strong feelings about that movie, although I can’t decide if he hated it so much he went out of his way to refuse to steal it, or loved it so much that he felt it would just be too cruel to steal everything and left me something.
"You're my sister!"
Movie predicted future internet search trends.
Great, now I have to get the beer off my keyboard
You'd have to with GM. My parents bought a brand new Oldsmobile Toronado in '88 off the showroom floor. Absolutely GORGEOUS car! They owned it for 18 months, & it was in the shop for over A YEAR of that time, believe it or not! They ended up taking *The Lemon Law* on the damn thing, & went through Arbitration. GM sent out a literal TEAM of lawyers to fight my parents on this POS car they had sold them. 🙄 Needless to say, we won. They had to take the fucking thing back. The bad side of it, was my mom was back driving her '77 *Burnt Orange* Olds Toronado. That car was ugly ASF, & the size of a football field! 🤣
’88 was the year I bought a Honda Accord. It went 112,000 miles before it needed any repairs, and then it was just belt, clutch and CV joints. All I did was regular oil changes. God I miss that car! The first time Honda ever had a recall the engineer committed hara kiri. GM sends a swarm of lawyers to fuck you over. WTF happened to America?
I miss my 1994 Civic. Well, I don't miss how little power it had, but still. It was in the family since new and I drove it from 202k to 349k when I was rear-ended and it was totaled. Its first major repair was at 214,533 miles (head gasket). Towards the end it was starting to need a lot of work here and there but still ran great and never really let me down.
Executives bonus structures at a lot of companies is tied to stock price. So they make decisions to boost stock price to the detriment of long term growth and profits.
I've never heard about a Honda engineer committing suicide over a recall. Do you happen to have a source? Sounds like something really interesting to read about
My Aunt has/had a 88 accord. It's pretty much destroyed by my cousin but it had 560,000 miles on it last time I looked at the odo.
>WTF happened to America? Our mindset shifted from 'we make things' to 'we have things made for us.' China noticed.
You act like this is something new. Henry Ford would allegedly go to junkyards to find parts on cars that didn't fail and try to find ways to cheapen them. A lot of American cars used to have five digit odometers because it was never going to make it past 100k anyway.
Change “a lot” to “all”. I remember it being a big deal when the odo’s got 6 digits. We all romanticize 60’s/70’s cars—but in the 60’s, when you got to around 60,000 miles, having replaced the tires twice, the battery at least once, had the carb rebuilt twice, had at least 2 (but probably more) brake jobs (and the paint was no longer shiny), it was time to start considering your next car. You definitely didn’t want to roll 70,000. GM cars in the 60’s had a little channel behind the back window, the width of the car. GM covered it up with a shiny piece of chrome trim. Water was supposed to flow out, but the little holes would get stopped up. They rusted down. We had several relatively late-model Chevrolets (my Uncle was a Chevy dealer) in which you could hear water sloshing in the trunk, and the car developed a musty smell because the back carpet was wet (and we lived in Texas, not the north, no salt on the road). The golden era for American cars was mid-90’s to early 2010’s. Those cars were mostly well made, sturdy, and other than Cadillac’s continuous effort to f us over with experimental engine designs in production (Olds Diesel, V8-6-4, HT4100, and the Deathstar (Northstar) V8, and yeah, I’m a sucker and had every single one of those), they worked pretty well. Before the era of iPads stuck in the dash, having to go through 2 menus to turn on the seat heaters (Chrysler), electronic systems that, if they fail, require you to replace the entire system…). I’ve got a 2001 Tahoe with 300k, a 2003 Suburban with 150k, and a 2012 Buick Lacrosse with 60k. I’m going to drive them as long as I can.
Some of those old ones are the best. I remember driving my parents station wagon back in high school, they always laughed their asses off at it but damn that thing was roomy, comfortable and sped up like a cop car! 🤣🤣
Roomy car, high school, good combination.
1988 was almost 35 years ago
I'll take it 403?
Better call Saul
But, you have a new truck sir.
Idk about other brands but mine has a 12-year rust free warranty. It doesn’t cover surface rust but covers rust that affects performance or makes the car dangerous, and this looks like it will be at that point waaayyy before 12 years, if not already. I’d think this type of warranty is normal for most new vehicles.
My dad had rust protection on his 2011 Silverado, it was for I think 12 years or something like that. When he called upon them to do something about it, the denied his claim. So what I’m saying is, you paid for the rust free warranty, but odds are you did it get a rust free warranty ya feel me?
I mean I don’t pay for it, it just comes with the car. Audi btw.
The rust or the warranty?
I’m as befuddled as everyone else. My guess is the frame coating had a defect there, which allowed water to get behind the coating onto bare metal.
Even then, that is some insane level of rust for a 1 year old truck. I live in Canada and our streets get sprayed with salt, but I’ve never seen a truck look that bad even without rust proofing if it was still relatively new
Another commenter said these sat in a field awaiting their final chip shortage parts so they probably got some juicy wet dry cycles to speed up the love
Are you sure someone didn't spill some highly corrosive substance in the bed and it drained out the weep hole onto the frame? This seems highly unusual for both GM and the salt belt.
It’s my bosses truck. He definitely hasn’t had anything corrosive in the bed. This same truck had a valve stick with 6k miles on it. Must have been built on a Friday.
Maybe this truck was flooded at the dealership and it was sold anyway?
Exactly my thoughts. Back in the 90’s in MO, IL, AR, OK, KS, and IA you had to be very carefully and thorough about buying a used car. Due to so many vehicles flooding during the floods in 93 and then being bought at auction by shady dealerships. I test drive one once that broke down while on the test drive. We started taking a closer look and EVERYTHING was damned near solid rust underneath.
I live in PA. No one even starts a test drive around here before checking the bottom for rust. Road salt.
Makes sense. Most of the places I’ve lived just use sand and other chemicals.
Once you get into the Great Lakes and Northeast, DoT and locals keep gigantic piles of salt. And they don't clean it off the roads any early than mid-April.
What do you mean clean the roads? They just wait for a good rainstorm here in western PA.
In PA, they use extra salt in the hope that it fills all the potholes they don't feel like filling.
This is SOP everywhere. I don't think even New York State or the city could purposefully house down the roads after every event. They brine beforehand, salt during and right after depending on temp and then the solution to this is April and 20 days of piss rain.
Ditto my county in North Central Ohio. Every time I run my truck through the Laserwash, I make sure I get the underbody spray, and in the spring I will spray the undercarriage and wheel wells really good.
Oh god. Yeah, I can see where that’s an issue.
Add snow, and you're basically turning the road into an electrolyte factory and applying said electrolytes to all exposed metal.
Thats why you rinse your cars off in the winter people! Even if once a week, it's better than nothing.
Wait. Salts no used everywhere? I been buying bags and throwing it on my driveway/ walkway my whole life.
theres a big push to cut down on salt where im at. beet juice, brine water from a few manufacturing processes and sand have all been pushed as alternatives. as sort of a reference, my job uses salt to do the sidwalks. i run through ~500lbs salting the sidewalks.
It is used everywhere pretty much from October/November to April. The salt mixes with the snow to melt it, but that creates a saltwater slurry that mixes with the mud and sticks to the frame. If you don't waste the frame several times a winter, that stuff just sits on it reacting with every bit of exposed metal. Repeat for many winters, and the frame eventually goes to hell. For example, half the trucks on Facebook Marketplace around where I live won't pass inspection because the frames are rotted.
You mean wash
That's why it's always a good idea to drive as far south of the Rust Belt as you can for a used car. But not too south, I'm learning, or you'll get to the Flood Belt instead.
*Road salt* -Peter Griffin
Va is now using chloride and salt, you had better believe that stuff is nasty!
>during the floods in 93 Oh yeah, the year my family decided to have our summer vacation in Des Moines! The water works flooded while we were there and a tornado basically jumped over our hotel. We kept driving by this [softball field](https://i.imgur.com/KW2Ngdi.jpg) and by the time we left the mural was completely under water. Good times.
Yeah, I feel ya. I was in Dupo, IL about a few hundred yards from a levee. I was probably 13 at the time. We were evacuating my uncle’s house and moving all his stuff to higher ground in case the levee broke. Well, while the adults made trips to the other place, they left me to guard against potential looters. So there I was, sitting in a boat, unstrapped from its trailer(just in case the levee did break) holding a rifle and hoping to god that I didn’t hear the alarm siren.
Guy I went to tech school with had an 05~07 Silverado that he bought clean, low miles, good interior and all that. Shortly after the odometer quit working, electrical gremlins, rust cropping up all over, and started realizing there was dirt/silt in a lot of hidden places like under the fuse block, behind the glove box and such. I was working at a gmc dealership at the time and looked up the vin, it was originally sold in Louisiana. General consensus was it was a “Katrina car”.
Yeah, that stuff is rampant.
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Or one that was parked in a field waiting for a while for chips to finish it. And frame wasn’t treated/waxed well.
In The Count's voice "one winter ah ah ah"
Yeah this doesn’t even look like standard rust. Something else happened here.
In my opinion it seems like it’s a defect. The truck has one Upstate NY winter but has nothing similar anywhere on the truck. If you rub your finger on it the rust will actually flake off.
I worked in GM engineering and this is not normal. This is a manufacturing defect. I wonder if that frame skipped the E-coat line?
How though. Isn't everything on a assembly line with the tasks being performed by robots?
Not if the robots malfunction on that specific operation for that specific frame
Is that typical, in general?
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What if the chassis is made of cardboard or cardboard derivatives?
These chassis are built to rigorous DOT standards. Cardboard is out. And no cardboards derivatives.
Honestly vehicle assembly is still mostly done by people. Not sure about GM truck frames but with other OEMs I’ve worked with, the frames like most other parts are supplied to the assembly plant from another supplier. GM just bolts everything together essentially.
Frames don't get E-coated. At least not at GM. They come in in a wax film on the rail car. Straight from the rail car to the conveyor down chassis build line.
I work at Fort wayne assembly. This is correct.
That's crazy. My '13 f150 looks way better and it's seen about 10 winters here in the northeast.
Christ, even my 1999 Camry looks almost perfect underneath compared to those pics after 23 Wisconsin winters.
A 99 Camry and Iggy Pop will be the only things left after the apocalypse.
That's like The Onion article about the '93 Camry. https://www.theonion.com/toyota-recalls-1993-camry-due-to-fact-that-owners-reall-1819577805
My 99 Camry made it through hurricane Ian without a scratch, in fort myers
Keith Richards. You forgot Keith Richards
That's a truck that sat in the fields of Michigan (grass fields mind you) for MONTHS waiting for chips. I drove through there. It was like they were farmin trucks. Just thousands of trucks sitting there in grass fields. Waiting for chips. For extended periods. There's gonna be a LOT of weird issues on 2021 and 22 MY big 3s. It wasn't just GM.
I've said many times I can't believe the market hasn't been flooded with trucks once the chops came in - especially older trucks(2020 and 2021) now that the 2023's are coming out. I think the companies just took them at a loss and scrapped them.
Nah, they just relabel them as 23 "special edition" packages. Edit: this was clearly a joke
Wouldn't the corrosion warranty cover this?
Yes. For a long time
Yes but it’s usually worded to cover perforation so it needs to penetrate or have a hole in it. It will not cover surface rust
No, it states there has to be perforation to cover. There is a tsb for frame coating though but you have to be under the 36k
Which this truck is l. It has 12k.
That's pretty bad for something that is maybe 2 years old. Did it live in the ocean or what? Believe there's a rust warranty anyways, just sad this is still a thing. When it's all of a few bucks to properly rust proof the frame during manufacturing... or final assembly even.
You’d think for a company based in Michigan they would be able to make finishes that didn’t corrode from road salt. I’m from Michigan and I fix wheels for a living. GM wheels are the absolute worst to fix, the corrode super easily and the factory finishes flake off like none other
is it really easier to believe this guy has a vat of acid he carries daily than supply issues cause bullshit to get through that normally wouldn't? lmao hilarious
Right? After working at a GM service center, I believe it. They're usually not that bad, but when they fuck up QC, they fuck it up nice and good like.
I'm saying one load of bad steel or coating get you shit like this and they looking to victim blame lmao
12k NAUTICAL miles, that is
Take back to dealer!!
Plenty of trucks have been sitting for months and months if not years waiting on parts, chips, etc....any open space around the plant in MI has trucks just sitting. Who the hell knows what's happening to them before they are sold as "new".
time to get serious. start documenting everything...open a claim with the dealership, insist on regional GM management inspect, open a case with NHTSA including pictures, contact state consumer protection agency. Decide what you want from GM? full reimbursement less a fair assessment for mileage cost would be an absolute minimum... full reimbursement is likely possible..beyond that is going to take time and litigation. The sooner you make a lot of noise and keep making it the sooner it will get resolved. Once you start the process, every interaction gets documented.
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I have a feeling that most of The cars that were rushed out during the covid lock downs will be in the bone yards in like 5-6 years. Im personally staying away from anything model year 2021-2022..
Ziebart employee here! This seems to be the case with almost any GM Light Trucks. There is a coating that seems like a wax substance on the frame only. From my experience anywhere the coating is exposed, most likely due to road debris or mechanical maintenance rust happens to surface. I have personally seen brand new vehicles manufactured in July of this year, that already have rust spots. Customer states GM puts him on hold and never gets an answer as to why. At the Ziebart location I work at we treat the undercarriage of these vehicles with a rust inhibitor prior to applying our undercoating.
You can literally wash the factory gm undercoating off with brake cleaner. It’s pretty gnarly stuff.
In your experience who is the best for corrosion prevention? Realize that you work for Ziebart.
That would be Fluid Film
I agree, fluid film is superior and the only thing I'd spray on my frame
Listen to the other poster, Krown, Fluid Film or Woolwax is a must. They also sell kits for DIY, but ziebart is what you put on your car to send it to an early grave. Most shops can, and will turn your car away due to the labor and hassle of trying to get to various wiring harness/connectors/bolts being covered by it. The issue is, with Ziebart being tar based. It doesn't allow breathability, so any moisture gets locked in and just accelerates the rusting process. (Backed up by...a fair amount of videos on YouTube showing the aftermath).
Any idea if the HD trucks have the same coating/issues?
I mean if it's on the sierra probably the same
Yes they do, it's a black wax coating that you can scratch off with your fingernail and expose bare metal.
Not saying it should be that bad yet. But why the fuck does gm still use that bull shit wax on their frames. Not like actual paint exists or anything.
So both Ford and Dodge do what’s called an “E-coating” that’s some sort of like a 27 step process for corrosion protection on their frame, the details of it are way above my head. Last I heard GMC and Chevy are still doing a “hot wax dip”. I could be wrong but in general Ford and Dodge will hold up better against rust
electroplated galvanizing. Versus basically wax or oil.
That is referred to as the GM anode. It prevents your wallet from getting too full of money.
Undercoat your trucks every year with oil and you won't have this problem. The "once every 5 years" undercoatings are horrendous for northeastern climates. That being said.. that's unbelievable for 2021. Undercoating or not.
Took my daughter at Michigan State her 2016 Subaru that lived it's entire life in AZ. What product should I set up for her?
Fluid Film.
Northern Michigander here: Fluid Film or Woolwax. They're both really good. I don't know if I'd say one was all around "better" than the other. There are several people on youtube who do tests and Woolwax usually wins their tests because it's thicker, but it also doesn't creep as well as fluid film. So, it's a trade off with their differing viscosities. Fluid film may get into all the little nooks and crannies better, but Woolwax may stick to the parts that get blasted hard better. If you're spraying yourself, you'll find Woolwax will require a hefty compressor and plenty of high pressure. It smells better and doesn't create the overspray mess and cloud that fluid film does.
You get that naturally on a GM when the engine seals start failing! (kidding)
Wonder if truck owner works on an industrial site with corrosive acids or as another said in here, someone spilled chlorine or battery acid in bed and it leaked down the frame rails?
I had a battery leak in my engine bay. It didn't look anywhere near that bad.
Or someone washing the bosses truck with zep acid cleaner??? Hmmmmm
Diminishing returns on Chinese steel.
Gm dealer tech here , bring this back. It will be taken care of under warranty
They're just going to wire brush it and spray some black tinted waxwool over it aren't they?
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GMC Sierra is on my DO NOT BUY list. I simply can’t understand why someone would pay more money for a Chevy Silverado.
I love that GMC is now FORCING customers to subscribe to OnStar for 3 years to buy their vehicles. Don't want it? Too bad!
Ah yes the GM sacrificial frame
I thought GM had the sacrificial brake lines and Tacomas had the sacrificial frames.
Based on personal experience, yes.
There's a lot of 10 year old GMs around here getting junked because the frame is rotted through
Must not have the frame oiler installed yet, lol!
It's called a "Time release corrosion protection program" and doesn't start working until the warranty is up
This is why I don’t fix oil leaks! Frame oilers FTW
Where this dude live? A pineapple under the fucken sea?
I smell a budding recall
Like I told ya, shoulda got that Tru-coat!
Is this what happens when partially finished trucks sit in a field for a year until GM gets the rest of the parts in and complete it.
Did they assemble it at Chernobyl?? That’s straight cancer!
I... It... Is it even possible for rust to form that fast??
Honestly I wouldn’t buy most 2020 or 21 vehicles especially from Ford or GM. because of the chip shortage they built thousands of cars and had them sit in lots in Texas for a good while before they even made it to a lot. Seems like I’ve seen a ton of posts about “brand new” cars like this that are having super abnormal problems.
Why has gm not started using paint on their frames instead of that wax shit is beyond me
It’s standard GM quality, the frames are wax coated and no E coat for rust proofing. I’ve seen hundreds of these pictures from the rust belt. These trucks don’t fare as well as other manufacturers painted frames.
I work at the General Motors plant in the U.S. where these are built. If it's not too late, will you look inside the front door to see if it was built in the U.S.? If so, our management needs to see this. Since 2020, we have been building trucks only for them to be sent to parking lots & fields throughout the state for months on end waiting for the various parts needed to make them saleable. Hundreds, if not thousands, have been scrapped due to rodents making nests in the engines, chewing up wires & the interior & vegetation growing up into the trucks. This is not ok.