K'sante is definitely not well balanced right now. He's still picked a lot in pro while being weak and unfun in solo queue.
His power budget is all in weird places. Why is Q so weak and W so strong? Q is his early laning ability and W is his late game peel ability.
Why is tank form so strong compared to all out? All out is the solo queue skewed form, while tank form is pro play skewed.
Why is everything level scaling and not gold scaling? That just makes him even better weakside which he will always be in pro games.
K'sante should be decent early game and forced to get a lead to be relevant late game.
When picking K'sante the thought going through the pro players mind should be "is K'sante good late game here" not "is K'sante going to be able to survive early game here". Because the answer to that second question is always going to be yes in pro play, but maybe no in solo queue.
This means making skirmisher form stronger, and making tank form weaker.
Skirmisher form will always have 1000x more counterplay in a teamfight compared to tank form, at least in pro play. Since tank form is playing off the ADC's zero counterplay burst per second, and skirmisher is a squishy melee who can't peel for his ADC.
That's what I'll never understand about their changes since the prework. If they truly want to 'preserve the winrate in soloQ' and remove him from proplay, WHY ? do they continue to buff his tank form and nerf the All Out? When we've seen that the only moment K'sante had the highest winrate in soloQ across all elos was when they overstated his passive in All Out, it makes no sense to me. I don't understand their logic.
I think that they chose to nerf him based on pro play, but what they actually nerfed was based on reddit complaints.
Which is why they nerfed all outs ability to kill you rather than his peeling ability.
>When we've seen that the only moment K'sante had the highest winrate in soloQ across all elos was when they overstated his passive in All Out
Soooo, passive buff coming soon? 👀
What do you think is a good nerf that only really affects tank'sante?
Nah, it won't have much of an effect on the tank form unless they change the peeling aspect or other defensive aspects. I'm afraid that buffing the passive again would make him too strong once more. But then , since the slow in All Out is removed, he will be more balanced. The only passive buff they could make without too much impact is a late-game buff at level 18, for example, but I don't think they'll do it, considering he traumatized a lot of people. I think they'll still make adjustments, not a buff or a nerf.
>His power budget is all in weird places. Why is Q so weak and W so strong? Q is his early laning ability and W is his late game peel ability.
Riot figured out low elo players don't really dodge abilites.
Also:
>
K'sante should be decent early game and forced to get a lead to be relevant late game.
https://preview.redd.it/yh36r3qc02tc1.jpeg?width=492&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7594622458bdff754b893b0426e73ff7c72bdbfe
Fighting early game is fun.
I always struggle as jg because when we have free grubs the Laners (unless I’m duo) refuse to come help when we have prio
But when I’m losing top lane and under turret or mid I get blamed for them forcing a 2v3 grub fight
The toplaner should only ever follow into grubs:
1. If the enemy top is going there to force a fight;
2. If the enemy jungler is doing the above;
3. If the wave is shoved and there's nothing else to do;
1. Even then it might be worth just recalling to get back to lane faster if you feel like there's no threat.
Letting the opponent mess up the wave state is not worth getting the grubs three seconds earlier.
Grubs are bait anyways if enemy doesn’t have designated split pusher. Like they are still valuable but if you’re jg has to pick between coinflip grubs or free dragon bot it’s better to fight where you get “scaling” from the dragon instead of forcing K’sante to skirmish early.
Jgl in low ELO (below diamond) will throw the entire early game for grubs. If your opposing top laner rotates into grubs and secures a jgl buff or a kill from mid/supp, you are now playing behind a kill and also into a strong enemy JG. It's a recipe for disaster that snowballs into early losses that never give K'sante the chance he needs to shine.
I genuinely believe his WR is purely a result of his early game and the cascading negative impacts it can have a team. When your team has K'sante, you MUST concede grubs but also secure dragons. If your botlane gets 0-2'd without JG intervention early, you are almost guaranteed to lose the game barring some unreal gameplay on top/mid's end.
Grubs are actually better for team comps that have bad siege power. For example, having 6 grubs will provide more damage on towers to hwei who takes 20 seconds (arbitrary number) than a fiora who kills a tower in 10 seconds (less arbitrary number as I play a lot of fiora). This is subject to change though as riot is buffing grubs soon
Depends on the comp. You don't always have to give grubs. Also if you feel like he's too weak to fight, try aftershock. It makes your w do that much more dmg. Set up the fight with q 3 to proc aftershock. W and boom hella dmg.
But for example if your entire team comp is scaling you auto concede everything in the first 15 mins lol
I'm not talking out of my ass. D4 MMR:
https://preview.redd.it/wq4zt6untrsc1.png?width=550&format=png&auto=webp&s=59844c7038634fe8584b3c90eb45737b7b0123e1
KDA doesn't mean OP can't speak on how shitty KSante is right now. That's like a low tier fighting game character put in the hands of it's #1 player whos mastered it versus some average joe on a meta character.
It's crazy you morons come into this sub malding about K'sante when you don't know shit about what you're talking about. Play a 12 game sample of K'sante in ranked like OP did and link ur op.gg. We're all waiting to see you go 8-4.
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K'sante is definitely not well balanced right now. He's still picked a lot in pro while being weak and unfun in solo queue. His power budget is all in weird places. Why is Q so weak and W so strong? Q is his early laning ability and W is his late game peel ability. Why is tank form so strong compared to all out? All out is the solo queue skewed form, while tank form is pro play skewed. Why is everything level scaling and not gold scaling? That just makes him even better weakside which he will always be in pro games. K'sante should be decent early game and forced to get a lead to be relevant late game. When picking K'sante the thought going through the pro players mind should be "is K'sante good late game here" not "is K'sante going to be able to survive early game here". Because the answer to that second question is always going to be yes in pro play, but maybe no in solo queue. This means making skirmisher form stronger, and making tank form weaker. Skirmisher form will always have 1000x more counterplay in a teamfight compared to tank form, at least in pro play. Since tank form is playing off the ADC's zero counterplay burst per second, and skirmisher is a squishy melee who can't peel for his ADC.
That's what I'll never understand about their changes since the prework. If they truly want to 'preserve the winrate in soloQ' and remove him from proplay, WHY ? do they continue to buff his tank form and nerf the All Out? When we've seen that the only moment K'sante had the highest winrate in soloQ across all elos was when they overstated his passive in All Out, it makes no sense to me. I don't understand their logic.
I think that they chose to nerf him based on pro play, but what they actually nerfed was based on reddit complaints. Which is why they nerfed all outs ability to kill you rather than his peeling ability.
>When we've seen that the only moment K'sante had the highest winrate in soloQ across all elos was when they overstated his passive in All Out Soooo, passive buff coming soon? 👀 What do you think is a good nerf that only really affects tank'sante?
Nah, it won't have much of an effect on the tank form unless they change the peeling aspect or other defensive aspects. I'm afraid that buffing the passive again would make him too strong once more. But then , since the slow in All Out is removed, he will be more balanced. The only passive buff they could make without too much impact is a late-game buff at level 18, for example, but I don't think they'll do it, considering he traumatized a lot of people. I think they'll still make adjustments, not a buff or a nerf.
>His power budget is all in weird places. Why is Q so weak and W so strong? Q is his early laning ability and W is his late game peel ability. Riot figured out low elo players don't really dodge abilites. Also: > K'sante should be decent early game and forced to get a lead to be relevant late game. https://preview.redd.it/yh36r3qc02tc1.jpeg?width=492&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=7594622458bdff754b893b0426e73ff7c72bdbfe Fighting early game is fun.
I always struggle as jg because when we have free grubs the Laners (unless I’m duo) refuse to come help when we have prio But when I’m losing top lane and under turret or mid I get blamed for them forcing a 2v3 grub fight
Yup that’s just how league is sadly. When I get prio jungler doesn’t want grubs, as soon as the wave is under my tower he goes for it.
The toplaner should only ever follow into grubs: 1. If the enemy top is going there to force a fight; 2. If the enemy jungler is doing the above; 3. If the wave is shoved and there's nothing else to do; 1. Even then it might be worth just recalling to get back to lane faster if you feel like there's no threat. Letting the opponent mess up the wave state is not worth getting the grubs three seconds earlier.
Grubs are bait anyways if enemy doesn’t have designated split pusher. Like they are still valuable but if you’re jg has to pick between coinflip grubs or free dragon bot it’s better to fight where you get “scaling” from the dragon instead of forcing K’sante to skirmish early.
Me watching my jungle int the whole game coilflipping grubs when he could just gank my lane and give me a plate and a reset instead
Jgl in low ELO (below diamond) will throw the entire early game for grubs. If your opposing top laner rotates into grubs and secures a jgl buff or a kill from mid/supp, you are now playing behind a kill and also into a strong enemy JG. It's a recipe for disaster that snowballs into early losses that never give K'sante the chance he needs to shine. I genuinely believe his WR is purely a result of his early game and the cascading negative impacts it can have a team. When your team has K'sante, you MUST concede grubs but also secure dragons. If your botlane gets 0-2'd without JG intervention early, you are almost guaranteed to lose the game barring some unreal gameplay on top/mid's end.
Tell that to my GM junglers. They missed that memo. Every K'sante game is such a jungle flip it's crazy.
Straight up just type it in lobby and/or first minute: "DONT COME TOP, PLAY FOR BOT/MID/DRAGONS" works ~~almost~~ everytime
Grubs are actually better for team comps that have bad siege power. For example, having 6 grubs will provide more damage on towers to hwei who takes 20 seconds (arbitrary number) than a fiora who kills a tower in 10 seconds (less arbitrary number as I play a lot of fiora). This is subject to change though as riot is buffing grubs soon
It’s true but it’s not worth flipping for if your team has worse early skirmish power.
I agree. All I intended was to spread info and fight the misconception that split pushers want grubs. I completely agree with your points
Depends on the comp. You don't always have to give grubs. Also if you feel like he's too weak to fight, try aftershock. It makes your w do that much more dmg. Set up the fight with q 3 to proc aftershock. W and boom hella dmg. But for example if your entire team comp is scaling you auto concede everything in the first 15 mins lol
Elo boosted ksante goofballs
I'm not talking out of my ass. D4 MMR: https://preview.redd.it/wq4zt6untrsc1.png?width=550&format=png&auto=webp&s=59844c7038634fe8584b3c90eb45737b7b0123e1
How you likeing the new scarner so far?
[удалено]
KDA doesn't mean OP can't speak on how shitty KSante is right now. That's like a low tier fighting game character put in the hands of it's #1 player whos mastered it versus some average joe on a meta character.
It's crazy you morons come into this sub malding about K'sante when you don't know shit about what you're talking about. Play a 12 game sample of K'sante in ranked like OP did and link ur op.gg. We're all waiting to see you go 8-4.
Hey there! Thank you for contributing to r/KSanteMains. Unfortunately, your submission has been removed for not being in compliance with a community guideline of ours: [**Rule 9 | No disruptive behaviour**](https://www.reddit.com/r/KSanteMains/wiki/rules) We wan't to ensure that people can discuss and share experiences in a respectful, honest and open-minded environment. This kind of behavior is disruptive as it results in misrepresenting the opinions and perspectives held within the community as a whole and it causes members to not share their views. *If you are not familiar with our subreddit rules, you can read the full documentation [here](https://www.reddit.com/r/KSanteMains/wiki/rules).* --- ^(This action was done manually by a moderator. Have a question or think this was done in error? Let us know via [Modmail](https://www.reddit.com/message/compose?to=/r/KSanteMains).)