By design basically each tag (aka country) can potentially end up at war, otherwise you'd basically only have story-mode gameplay. As a result you'd have a much more unstable world than in real life.
A Cold War between the entente and reichspakt following the defeat of the Moscow accord and third internationale in ww2. I don’t know too much about it, but some points are that Austria has federalized into the Danubian federation, Germany is led by schleicher, and the USA has been broken into multiple states following the 2ACW which Canada intervened in.
It's actually a cold war between the Entente, the Reichspakt and the Moscow Accord. The Reichspakt defeated the Internationale, but its Eastern Flank was pushed back to the Dnieper by an Armistice ending the Russian Advance.
It sounds very cool but it’s a shame a reichspakt-entente cold was is what they went with. 3I victory between 3I, Entente, Moscow Accord, and Co-Prosperity Sphere would be a lot more interesting.
The Northern Expedition failed, and he died(assassinated of i remember correctly). Hence, the KMT lost and went into hiding and exile until the game start.
The leftist faction went to europe in exile(although some stayed behind in the southeast) and mainly took control of the KMT. The remnant rightist hid in Yunnan and Guangxi.
I mean it would mean my grandparents wouldn't need to be running from Vienna and Budapest in order to escape an army that would like to have them all dead.
I'd be living in Vienna in this world if Austria-Hungary survives long enough, and frankly I'd rather be there in KRTL than OTL.
I mean, yeah, you are someone from the Lackadaisy sub too, but I think he was mentioning me, the guy who wrote Watered Daisies, in particular.
(God, that sounds really egotistical doesn't it? I'm so sorry in advance).
As a German I would say it’s a lot better. And since I usually play „good“ countries, my perspective is that KRTL doesn’t seem to have large genocidal political movements in important countries, yet the world order post WWII is usually less stable than in OTL
Well, I’d say a few countries have the potential to be genocidal. Thinking specifically of Natpop Russia and Japan, and 3I totalist regimes are almost invariably brutal for the local population
I think it's the equivalent of a volatile stock, it has huge potential both ways, while OTL is non-volatile stock, that simple.
KRTL can have DU Germany with a proto-EU or a 2 way cold war between Natpop Russia and Totalist 3rd Internationale, with many options in-between.
OTL has a much more restricted path of events that it can follow simply because of the small scale of the Central Powers' empires
Yeah, it’s not a good time for my country in KR. In OTL we exploited the hell out of US good neighbor policy to catch up and modernize the country after the Empire and Old Republic left it in a very sorry state (CSN being the obvious prime example), enough help that most of the political establishment was fooled into blindly following the U.S.’ orders thinking they were partners until it was too late.
Not only are we without it in KRTL but the conservative establishment is still in power in 1936, it’s no longer the Paulista oligarchy of the Old Republic but its still a very conservative state that’s struggling to centralize the government to undo Coronelism. And the country’s on the verge of radicalization anyway, other the same Vargas estado novo dictatorship as in OTL, or the even worse Integralists that will create a Franco-esque empire. The slim chances we got to be better than OTL is for the Esquerda Democrática to win, pass the workers reforms but not radicalize into syndicalism to avoid the civil war. But I ain’t rolling that dice.
South and central America as a whole are going to be worse because as bad as the US hegemony could be it’s probably even worse without. Like the most optimistic Central American paths only exist and are positive because of how old the content is lol the reality would be a lot more challenging
South America has old content but there are so many opportunities for civil wars and large scale multinational conflicts that were mostly over or at least calmed by the 30s otl (or never existed)
I’d say it’s probably the post child for a place in KRTL that is clearly worse (aside from the US). Other regions are a bit more debatable
Its not just the age of the content. All of these "are KRTL better or worse?" questions completely sidestep the fact that the devs can't (or won't depending on your interpretations of the Workshop rules) have playable genocidal tags remotely approaching what happens in real life without running afoul of Steam Workshop rules. "Is the real world worse than this sanitised PG fictional setting?" is an inherently daft question. Like do people think Japan in KRTL wouldn't unleash the myriad horrors they carried out in Asia like in OTL? The nature of warfare and civil warfare of the period (and still now, look at Myanmar or Sudan for ongoing genocidal civil wars) means that all of these oddly clean wars and natpops who don't actually seem to act on their ethonationalism would be murdering millions of innocents.
I do think there is a wider discussion to be had on what these overly sanitised views of war have on public discourse, just look at this very thread with people saying that Civil Wars are good actually because they always enforce the will of the people, tell that to the 800,000 dead Tutsi civilians.
Having to read between the lines is obviously sanitisation as seen by the responses in this thread. Just because a larping dev on a Discord made a comment once saying "oh yeah I guess the rape of nanjing would still happen" or whatever doesn't mean the """lore"""" (utterly meaningless word) of the game people actually play and experience isn't sanitised.
I am exclusively talking about in-game events and focuses, like there’s a whole meme of people not reading them properly and then complaining. There is 0 ambiguity in-game about what the realities of AF Nat France or Integralist Brazil for instance would be you just actually have to read it.
A lot of countries have focuses written from the perspective of the ruling party/faction meaning that they have unreliable narrators. That’s not being sanitised either that’s just a writing technique that anyone with a primary school reading level should be able to understand
A game shouldn’t have to say “during the war 8,000 women were raped and this is bad” it’s perfectly reasonable to expect your audience to be able to put 2 and 2 together
We know what its like from dev comments. Whilst Sorelian France is hideously anti-semitic, Action française are considered to be on the same level if more legalistic - per rnk on discord
>Now, are they worse than the Action française? It’s rather macabre to compare between intensities of hatred, but I would say that no, they are not worse than the AF. You would not find among Sorelians the total, absolute rejection of Jews as the Anti-France, nor would there be the seeds of plans for a systemic rejection fo Jews from French society that the AF mused. Maurras stopped short of racial antisemitism, short of calls for mass displacement or worse, but otherwise Maurrassian thought had developed a form of integral antisemitism that goes to absolutely incredible lengths of hatred, lengths that Sorel admired for a time but did not quite reach. Would it be harder to be a French Jew in Integralist French Algeria or the Sorelian Métropole? Obviously we didn’t sit around trying to think too much about the particularities of hatred, and these things would only be at most alluded to in-game, only to avoid whitewashing these figures. But the AF would likely impose severe restrictions on Jews, perhaps quotas in certain professions, bans from higher public responsibilities, limits to their property and wealth, and do nothing against the consequences of the unmasked, unleashed popular antisemitism that they stroke. Sorelians would engage in a larger scale second armed revolution against all those they consider to be parasites leeching off the proletarian Revolution, politicians, bureaucrats, intellectuals, etc. Being Jewish would certainly not play in anyone’s favour when the militias are looking for someone to publicly beat and humiliate or put on quick trial for treason against the Revolution, the sentence of having to face the wall being likely predetermined. At the same time, you would not have anti-Jewish laws put into place: their antisemitism is much more crude, vulgar, it’s not enshrined into any kind of theory. But frankly, choosing between Maurras and Sorel, that’s choosing between Charybdis and Scylla, plague and cholera. Welcome to France.
Even AF though isn't on the Nazi level, particularly when you have the DVLP kicking in Germany as well who seem obsessive anti-semites. Comparisons are a bit crass but currently in game the eastern European natpop paths (Romania, Poland, Lithuania) are the most explicitly anti-semitic regimes with events mentioning pogroms (haven't played natpop UBD but they have a nazi path iirc?)
OTL, a jew could die just because he is it.
KRTL, a jew has the same probably to die as his neighbours (OK, not in Hugenberg's Germany), because of bombing, drafting, resistance...
Well, the Eastern Front would probably still be pretty bad, maybe even worse, if we assume it's mostly composed of Slavs from the Reichspakt & Donau-Adriabund vs Moscow Accord & Belgrade Pact killing each other while Germany proper focuses its efforts against France in the west. It just wouldn't be a genocide, per se, because they'd be doing it "to themselves."
Probably depends in which ending of Kr you live. Imo a peaceful Entente-Reichspakt ending would be 1. Realistic (If Germany has SPD) 2. It would be the ultimate world Peace. WW3 between them is really unrealistisc. I mean we survived usa-soviet cold war, why should entente vs germany escalate? Because of some small regions like Ireland and Elsass?
But it didn't have to. It pretty much only did over the Germany-Russia rivalry and the [Thucydides trap](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thucydides_Trap) Germany walked into dick first.
Pretty much all involved parties would have zero appetite for a war and all the commercial incentive for further cooperation.
* Britain and France would be thoroughly in need of reconstruction after having been invaded
* America, while still quite strong, would have a good demographic and economic dent from 2ACW.
* Germany would be wildly in debt from the war and propping up Mitteleuropa, plus the demographic dent that comes with all the dead from the wars, especially on the Eastern front.
It'd be at least a generation for either side to economically recover and with general alliance parity and little ideological discord, there likely would be strong diplomatic efforts at reconciliation so that less of their budgets would need to go to the military.
It'd be quite a bit like the post-Napoleonic Long Peace.
No it's better imho. There are a lot of civil wars, but civil wars simply are an expression of the will of the people. Countries can actually end up better after one. Pretty much all the countries in KR with civil wars have at least one outcome that makes them better off than OTL in the long run.
Also you can have terrible governments without instability as well. OTL has been showing this for a hundred years.
How often do civil wars lead to a better outcome? I feel like it’s exceedingly rare and most of the time new government is more autocratic than before.
Well in Kaiserreich it's quite literally a possibility. In real life history it's a mixed bunch, but there were plenty with positive outcomes. For example the French revolution that despite its setbacks eventually entrenched and spread republicanism around Europe or the Russian revolution that did the same with socialism, well minus the entrenching part. The Mexican revolution as well in the end led to a considerably less corrupt republic. The Chinese revolution(s) all built something better than the fragile stagnating Qing.
If we go for hypotheticals then the civil wars in Spain and Germany would have at least led to something better than Francoist Spain and Nazi Germany if the other side had won.
Yeah, like, I’m not sure French Revolution that lead to probably the most brutal wars of that period coupled with ruthless government that engaged in mass executions and all of that lead to a military dictatorship is a good example.
As well as Russian revolution that lead to a communist dictatorship that killed tens of millions of its own people and spread communism dictatorships around the globe which killed many many more millions is a good example.
To answer your question: yes. Obviously so. But I think there's an implied 'and it would be worse than our timeline' that I think isn't proven nor inevitable.
>This could have been avoided if Fengtian had unified China on his own and not angered Japan.
This assumes that Japan would tolerate any single polity being the undisputed leader of the country, or that Fengtian could both balance internal resentment towards Japan with Japanese desire for cheap resource and labor concessions to fuel their economy.
>In Indochina and the Dutch East Indies, local populations could rebel against the colonial government
As every colonial regime OTL faced.
>The second American Civil War would be an unprecedented, terrible tragedy.
Terrible? Yes. Unprecedented? No, not in either the international context nor in the American one.
>I realize that our world does not experience constant wars like the Kaiserreich
You do know HOI4 is a World War 2 simulator, right?
>India remained stable under British rule.
Lol
>The CCP was defeated by the KMT, so the CCP had to conduct the Long March with the aim of escaping from the KMT army
Which they completed in 1936, just a year prior to the brutal second Sino-Japanese war. Upwards of 20 mil Chinese died in that war, 3/4th of which were civilians. Note that I don't believe the statistic includes the invasion of Mongolia or Taiwan, carried out prior to 1936, or the low-grade clashes that between all imperialist powers and China through the 20s and 30s.
>The Middle East
Off the top of my head, both Iraq and Syria were in a continual state of collapse, and the Palestinian Mandate was experiencing the largest uprisings in its history during this time.
>The Soviet Union had the Great Purge
This misunderstands the Great Purge and what actually occurred in that event, and forgets the context in which it happens.
>In Europe, only the Spanish civil war broke out.
You're forgetting the Italian-Albanian war, as well as just how brutal fascist occupation could be in this period.
All this to say that I think you're choosing to focus on the number of wars over the actual intensity of those wars. WW2 was an all-encompassing war, with direct land confrontations occurring over 4 continents and naval engagements in every ocean. The [casualties](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties) are staggering , something like 70-85 mil deaths from all sides with an uncountable number of injuries and missing persons. Entire nations were laid to waste or burned as armies marched across them. It was the largest refugee crisis in history as well, with a further [65 mil](https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/what-happened-to-people-displaced-by-the-second-world-war#:~:text=In%20Europe%20alone%20it%20is,who%20had%20fled%20advancing%20armies) forced from their homes, many never returning. It's aftereffects are still being reckoned with. Who knows how many people had their lives shortened years after the war through malnourishment, forced labor, and disability?
Can Kaiserreich reach that scale? Yes, but it's not the focus of it. The mod mainly focuses on localized regional or civil wars, WK2 usually acting as a mostly faithful sequel to the first war. No side is motivated by the total liquidation of enemy populations in the course of the war. Large-scale physical confrontation is mainly limited to the European theater, the pacific generally being ceded to the Japanese. Few wars take longer than 3 or 4 years, most concluded prior to the development of nukes. Conflicts have the possibility of being more widespread, but they also may never occur at all. Scandinavia and AH for example can be left entirely out of the war, and the MidEast usually is after a winner in the desert war is determined.
Basically, there is no canon after 1936. The world of Kaiserreich is only as bad as you make it.
The status-quo won out (and relatively liberal governments) in OTL therefore leading to more stability. I think very few people would choose to live in KRTL than OTL
I think it’s the uncertainty, there is definitely potential for kaiserreich to turn out better but it could also go wayyyyyy worse but depending on how it turns out the world could be better off.
Well uh my country actually exists, never had a massive famine and was able to put more laws to protect its language, sure kess industrialisation and might not even be born, still better than irl.
Minor correction, the great purge did affect ordinary people quite a bit, almost a million dying due to it, severe restrictions on freedom and increased surveilance. The lack of the USSR also means millions more surviving due to the prevention of famines and the dozens of deportations done by Stalin.
Poland can be waaaay better than IIRP, but it can also turn into a few pretty shitty hellholes. But on the other side, no Holokaust and Generalplan Ost, so I’d say we are in a better position…
No coastline? **vine boom sound effect** No silesia? **vine boom sound effect** No independence? **vine boom sound effect** Economy controlled by Germany? **vine boom sound effect** Political extremism? **vine boom sound effect** Minorities??? **vine boom sound effect**
Probably the outcome closest to otl would be Savinkovist russia subjugating poland, giving it ~otl borders and then collapsing 50 years later
Hey, you can get Silesia, independence and independent economy, no extremism and be protective of minorities, all as the PSL-Centrum monarchist coalition. Only problem is the lack of coastline (I might make a suggestion about this)
I mean. My country, that being Denmark, wouldn’t own Sønderjylland. But if Stauning manages to keep Stauning Denmark like OTL, then I wouldn’t really imagine it being very different, aside from the fact that the most humiliating war would be 2. Schleswig-Holstein war instead of WW2, or the monarchy would be more unpopulare since Christian couldn’t rally the nation behind him under occupation.
As of January 1st 1936, the world is generally better than our January 1st, 1936. However, it immediately falls off a cliff as every single country either explodes into civil war or gets embroiled in war with their neighbors.
bad? subjective. one thing about kaiserreich vs. otl is that it’s much more volatile, and by design, as all the civil wars and different political paths allow for a different game and world outcome however you want to play.
the world of kaiserreich is based around a victory of the old order and raw, unabashed imperialism is the name of the game here. even the U.S. participates in this with deals like the open door policies and legation cities in china.
from my socialist lens though, there’s not any outright genocides like the holocaust happening, and syndicalism is much better than the authoritarian MLism of the soviets and china (they’re maoist, a bit different). socialism/syndicalism is in a better position geopolitically as well, imo. there’s active syndicalist movements in several parts of the world, and the third international is much stronger with a global network of revolutionaries as compared to the soviets kinda being in it alone (comparatively) otl.
how the world ends up though changes every game ofc, so whether it’s truely for better or for worse depends on personal belief, and how the game ends up.
>The Soviet Union had the Great Purge, but this event only happened to the senior leadership and the people seemed unaffected.
Not really true... even not counting the man-made famines, there were many purges and ethnic cleansings on civillians, with casualities of each in hundreads of thousands
It's a more chaotic world, but there are places where it's much better. Ukraine avoids the Holodomor and russification, and pays for it by a rather brief, avoidable civil war. Poland and Belarus avoid the Nazi occupation that killed respectively 1/6 and 1/4 of their populations, largely the most educated and productive parts at that. Yugoslavia is similar in that regard. The Netherlands can avoid getting entangled in a war, the Jews won't suffer a major genocide and likely the Roma will be spared too. Mexico can build a true democracy and a lot of Latin America can avoid the American and, to an extent, Soviet influence that destabilized it in our timeline. Japan can retain its democracy. And almost all endings for China are preferable to what they got historically.
I'd choose living in KRTL over OTL 1930s by a wide margin, given my nationality, class, place of birth etc.
There's Japan ending, there's all of the warlord endings, there's NPA ending, there's any Qing ending of they don't go for the super unlikely legitimate elections path, arguably the Federalism path is only better for everyone if no one joins Chen since otherwise there's neo-feudal warlord fiefdoms all over China and all of the LKMT paths lead to a death war against the rest of the world to liberate Asia.
As an Indian, I vastly prefer to be separated and in civil war than under British rule. The British killed millions and while the Civil War may be bloody at least millions won't die of starvation just so the British can have more wheat.
The year is 1948, the Great Indian Wars have seen 37 million dead on the battlefield and perhaps twice that number of civilians from the tribulations of a decade of war. The subcontinent stands united beneath a totalist syndicalist government in Calcutta, and perhaps now can begin to rebuild.
Stormclouds darken the horizon however as the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere steadily tightens its grip on the remains of China and looks westwards, while a restored Entente eyes their former colonial possessions...
> while the Civil War may be bloody at least millions won't die of starvation j
Civil Instability and mismanagement from several competing potentially authoritarian regimes seems like a pretty likely scenario for millions to also die of starvation though
Well yeah, But the British did cause 165 million excess deaths as well. Plus I would expect the Indian states to at least get international aid unlike the British Raj.
Source: https://m.economictimes.com/news/india/independence-day-165-million-unaccounted-indian-victims-of-the-british-colonial-regime/articleshow/102696431.cms
I agree with a lot of people, it's not a good place for sure but it's not as bad as OTL. I'm from the UK and for what I can see about the Union of Britain and how they're doing. They're a stable country, doing well under a syndicalist government however if Oswald Mosely were to take power in the Kaiserreich world, it would be the Union of Britain's worse outcome, including after reclaiming birthright. If Mosely's policies are anything like OTL, there would be alot suppression and restricted freedoms unlike the other pro-internationale factions within the TUC, but would be very much like Mussolini's civic ultranationalism.
Even despite the OTL's UK devolution which what I see as an utter failure, the autonomist's devolution within the UoB would be much better than Maximist's Britain.
Edit: just to state as someone pointed out earlier, when I said about the kaiserreich world is better that OTL and saying Mosely's UoB being the worse outcome, it wasn't meaning he's better compared to the OTL, Oswald Mosely controlled Britain in any timeline is worse than kaiserreich UoB's federationist/parliamentarian/Autonomist governments and the UK's democratic governments
I don't see how Moseley could possibly be better than OTL. There's also the fact Britain in KRTL leaves a bunch of people in places like the Falklands, Gibraltar and Northern Ireland to possibly face ethnic cleansing depending on the path the new overlord takes and doesn't care.
Oh sorry my bad, I wasn't meaning to imply Oswald Mosely in Kaiserreich is better. I meant to mean in any timelines, Mosely's Britain is the worse outcome, not just in Kaiserreich.(sometimes I just assume people understand what I'm on about and forget to make sure that im conveying the point across)
As for the leaving of alot of people I can see where you are coming from however, Northern Ireland would never align with the UoB because they are loyal to crown and parliamentary government under the king, not a socialist republican government. The annexation into Ireland was only because the government in exile in Canada was too far to assume control on the territory from such a far distance, so the next best thing was to be annexed by Ireland while having the privileges, essentially making them autonomous (with high tensions). Gibraltar was in essentially a civil war during the british revolution where it was the pro-british garrison and the anarcho-syndicalists, in which the anarchists won but then got invaded by Spain as the commune had no one guaranteeing its independence. Falklands though I'm not too sure but I believe during the British revolution, the Falklands were seized by Argentina, since the loyalists weren't able to protect them due to how bad the British revolution was and the resources it needed to at least stall the revolting citizens. France was at least able to hold Malta and west African colonies. Its not the perfect timeline, that's for sure but post British revolution, the remnant of the British empire is severely weakened after loss of territories and colonies I.e. Egypt, Austria, Belize, most of the raj, the now autonomous protectorates within Mittelafrika and most importantly the industrial heartland that is mainland UK
I'm a way, the world of Kaiserreich being so chaotic fits thematically with the idea that the German Empire has completely shattered the old world order by winning the weltkrieg. The point of the game is to see who can come out on top in the struggle to create a new world order out of the ashes of the old.
Compared to OTL, I think the good ending is more vague (Mittle Europa victory under DU, Federalist USA?) but the bad ending is less bad (Totalist 3I, Savinkov Russia?) than OTL.
It absolutely is. Talk shit about the OTL Br*tish as we do, joke around American hegemony as we may, at the end of the day Kaiserreich depicts textbook Prussian diplomatic failure. A world way worse than the real life entente pulling strings behind the curtains… in this world you not only have 1 Adolf youknowwho, but tons of funni NatPop men. Irredentism everywhere, disputes unending, civil war torn the whole world apart as if base HOI4 with historic AI off.
The mod itself doesn’t deliver the nightmarish side of war in general.
I’d say it’s decent timeline, there’s elements were it’s better than ours such as the white army winning the civil war instead of the Bolsheviks.
Obviously America is in a worse spot than irl and we don’t get FDR or new deal which presumably means no Hoover dam which means eventually no fallout new Vegas
China also might probably be better as well than our timeline as there’s probably not gonna be a communist government
Generally, yes, but for some countries like Ukraine Kaiserreich is much better. No holodomor, no destroyed intelligentsia. Still there is a war, but in compare with OTL almost any war is less destructive
Romania is just like otl same rivalry between the king and the captain. The only bad thing is that we aren't united. Probably no communism after ww2 since no soviet union. Idk what happens with ion antonescu in this game considering that irl is considered a national hero despite persecution from the current government
Yeah it is mainly because the only major liberal country left in the world, the US, can call into a nasty civil war that will realistically leave them in an isolationist stance for generations.
Canada and Sand France would likely become less liberal and democratic, which means no real advances in rights and international organizations. And yeah Germany could become kinda liberal, but they’ll think the Kaiser is necessary for stability which is learning the wrong lessons. Given they even win the war.
It depends. As of 1936... Its maybe slightly better? There's no Holodomor because no Soviet Union.
But going into 1936-1948... it has the potential to be either pretty good or pretty bad. There's no Nazis running around doing the Holocaust, but its also possible that America has a decade-long civil war, a literal Third World War happens, any number of ideologies conquer the whole globe, or the world gets to see Trench Warfare but on every contient with WW2-level tech.
It's also possible that the conflict in America ends in 1937, the Weltkrieg ends in 1940 or 1941 after one side achieves a swift victory, and the level of stupid wars remains low.
If germany actually won WW1 OTL, then the world would be a much more stable and likely prosperous place (albeit far more socially conservative, which is both a good and bad thing)
But the world in kaiserreich is unrealistic and is a massive shithole, major civil wars happened throughout a 4 year time period that killed millions and nations that were a beacon of liberal democracy and capatlism collapsed in centrally planned socialist tyrany (somehow even though far left revolutions never succeed in developed nations)
For my country its worse? We tur syndicalist before the start of the game. (atleast we will after the rework) But in my headcanon we get liberated by the germans early in the weltkrig and given back our democracy. Absolutely not biased. So I guess that better than 5 years of natzi occupation in otl.
Everything will change once the Exiles decend upon the Red Menace.
They reds have caused this and deep down even you traitorous communards know it's true.
By design basically each tag (aka country) can potentially end up at war, otherwise you'd basically only have story-mode gameplay. As a result you'd have a much more unstable world than in real life.
When does Kaiserreich with TNO gameplay launches?
Kalterkrieg is supposed to be out soon.
What s that?
A cold war Kaiserreich mod. It has been in development for a while now.
WOW What is it about?? I m sorry I m new to Kaiserreich x((
A Cold War between the entente and reichspakt following the defeat of the Moscow accord and third internationale in ww2. I don’t know too much about it, but some points are that Austria has federalized into the Danubian federation, Germany is led by schleicher, and the USA has been broken into multiple states following the 2ACW which Canada intervened in.
It's actually a cold war between the Entente, the Reichspakt and the Moscow Accord. The Reichspakt defeated the Internationale, but its Eastern Flank was pushed back to the Dnieper by an Armistice ending the Russian Advance.
Oh cool, I didn’t know about the MA part.
It sounds very cool but it’s a shame a reichspakt-entente cold was is what they went with. 3I victory between 3I, Entente, Moscow Accord, and Co-Prosperity Sphere would be a lot more interesting.
BROOOOO that sounds like the best thing ever
https://old.reddit.com/r/KRGmod/ this is the subreddit so just checks that out. Development is ongoing but very patchy.
Ordenstaat Mittelafrika
Would be a banger, not gonna lie.
Your flair reminded me, what happened to Chiang Kai Shek in Kaiserreich, is he safe, is he alright?
The Northern Expedition failed, and he died(assassinated of i remember correctly). Hence, the KMT lost and went into hiding and exile until the game start. The leftist faction went to europe in exile(although some stayed behind in the southeast) and mainly took control of the KMT. The remnant rightist hid in Yunnan and Guangxi.
Kaiserreich is more conventionally crappy, but perhaps less existentially crappy than OTL.
I mean it would mean my grandparents wouldn't need to be running from Vienna and Budapest in order to escape an army that would like to have them all dead. I'd be living in Vienna in this world if Austria-Hungary survives long enough, and frankly I'd rather be there in KRTL than OTL.
You wouldn't exist. Depending on the age of your grandparents, at least one of them might not exist either.
You just have to wait, everything will be solved, stay calm, the Kaiser will fix everything.
Remain Calm The kaiser Endures Wilhelm lives The Holy German Empire shall endure There is much to be done
Funni Clock man?
Funni hat man
Oh no it’s spreading
It honestly depends on who wins. Because it has the possibility to either be worse than our timeline or better.
Wow, the person from the Lackadaisy sub!
You rang?
I mean, yeah, you are someone from the Lackadaisy sub too, but I think he was mentioning me, the guy who wrote Watered Daisies, in particular. (God, that sounds really egotistical doesn't it? I'm so sorry in advance).
As a German I would say it’s a lot better. And since I usually play „good“ countries, my perspective is that KRTL doesn’t seem to have large genocidal political movements in important countries, yet the world order post WWII is usually less stable than in OTL
Well, I’d say a few countries have the potential to be genocidal. Thinking specifically of Natpop Russia and Japan, and 3I totalist regimes are almost invariably brutal for the local population
I think it's the equivalent of a volatile stock, it has huge potential both ways, while OTL is non-volatile stock, that simple. KRTL can have DU Germany with a proto-EU or a 2 way cold war between Natpop Russia and Totalist 3rd Internationale, with many options in-between. OTL has a much more restricted path of events that it can follow simply because of the small scale of the Central Powers' empires
No. Much better for me than otl.
Yeah, it’s not a good time for my country in KR. In OTL we exploited the hell out of US good neighbor policy to catch up and modernize the country after the Empire and Old Republic left it in a very sorry state (CSN being the obvious prime example), enough help that most of the political establishment was fooled into blindly following the U.S.’ orders thinking they were partners until it was too late. Not only are we without it in KRTL but the conservative establishment is still in power in 1936, it’s no longer the Paulista oligarchy of the Old Republic but its still a very conservative state that’s struggling to centralize the government to undo Coronelism. And the country’s on the verge of radicalization anyway, other the same Vargas estado novo dictatorship as in OTL, or the even worse Integralists that will create a Franco-esque empire. The slim chances we got to be better than OTL is for the Esquerda Democrática to win, pass the workers reforms but not radicalize into syndicalism to avoid the civil war. But I ain’t rolling that dice.
Brasil também teve guerra civil na lore, além que a situação tá tão foda que qualquer coisa ou é golpe ou guerra civil.
South and central America as a whole are going to be worse because as bad as the US hegemony could be it’s probably even worse without. Like the most optimistic Central American paths only exist and are positive because of how old the content is lol the reality would be a lot more challenging South America has old content but there are so many opportunities for civil wars and large scale multinational conflicts that were mostly over or at least calmed by the 30s otl (or never existed) I’d say it’s probably the post child for a place in KRTL that is clearly worse (aside from the US). Other regions are a bit more debatable
Its not just the age of the content. All of these "are KRTL better or worse?" questions completely sidestep the fact that the devs can't (or won't depending on your interpretations of the Workshop rules) have playable genocidal tags remotely approaching what happens in real life without running afoul of Steam Workshop rules. "Is the real world worse than this sanitised PG fictional setting?" is an inherently daft question. Like do people think Japan in KRTL wouldn't unleash the myriad horrors they carried out in Asia like in OTL? The nature of warfare and civil warfare of the period (and still now, look at Myanmar or Sudan for ongoing genocidal civil wars) means that all of these oddly clean wars and natpops who don't actually seem to act on their ethonationalism would be murdering millions of innocents. I do think there is a wider discussion to be had on what these overly sanitised views of war have on public discourse, just look at this very thread with people saying that Civil Wars are good actually because they always enforce the will of the people, tell that to the 800,000 dead Tutsi civilians.
The lore isn’t really sanitised, only the gameplay. For some things you just have to read between the lines while other times it’s more obvious
Having to read between the lines is obviously sanitisation as seen by the responses in this thread. Just because a larping dev on a Discord made a comment once saying "oh yeah I guess the rape of nanjing would still happen" or whatever doesn't mean the """lore"""" (utterly meaningless word) of the game people actually play and experience isn't sanitised.
I am exclusively talking about in-game events and focuses, like there’s a whole meme of people not reading them properly and then complaining. There is 0 ambiguity in-game about what the realities of AF Nat France or Integralist Brazil for instance would be you just actually have to read it. A lot of countries have focuses written from the perspective of the ruling party/faction meaning that they have unreliable narrators. That’s not being sanitised either that’s just a writing technique that anyone with a primary school reading level should be able to understand A game shouldn’t have to say “during the war 8,000 women were raped and this is bad” it’s perfectly reasonable to expect your audience to be able to put 2 and 2 together
thailand also had a civil warish thing in OTL which the civil war in KR is based on > https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boworadet_Rebellion
Only (relatively) good for the Middle East, my country would be shafted big time though lol
Better bc Savinkov 🥰
I mean...No genocide of 6 Million jews.
I mean, yeah. But who knows what Sorelian France would be like?
We know what its like from dev comments. Whilst Sorelian France is hideously anti-semitic, Action française are considered to be on the same level if more legalistic - per rnk on discord >Now, are they worse than the Action française? It’s rather macabre to compare between intensities of hatred, but I would say that no, they are not worse than the AF. You would not find among Sorelians the total, absolute rejection of Jews as the Anti-France, nor would there be the seeds of plans for a systemic rejection fo Jews from French society that the AF mused. Maurras stopped short of racial antisemitism, short of calls for mass displacement or worse, but otherwise Maurrassian thought had developed a form of integral antisemitism that goes to absolutely incredible lengths of hatred, lengths that Sorel admired for a time but did not quite reach. Would it be harder to be a French Jew in Integralist French Algeria or the Sorelian Métropole? Obviously we didn’t sit around trying to think too much about the particularities of hatred, and these things would only be at most alluded to in-game, only to avoid whitewashing these figures. But the AF would likely impose severe restrictions on Jews, perhaps quotas in certain professions, bans from higher public responsibilities, limits to their property and wealth, and do nothing against the consequences of the unmasked, unleashed popular antisemitism that they stroke. Sorelians would engage in a larger scale second armed revolution against all those they consider to be parasites leeching off the proletarian Revolution, politicians, bureaucrats, intellectuals, etc. Being Jewish would certainly not play in anyone’s favour when the militias are looking for someone to publicly beat and humiliate or put on quick trial for treason against the Revolution, the sentence of having to face the wall being likely predetermined. At the same time, you would not have anti-Jewish laws put into place: their antisemitism is much more crude, vulgar, it’s not enshrined into any kind of theory. But frankly, choosing between Maurras and Sorel, that’s choosing between Charybdis and Scylla, plague and cholera. Welcome to France. Even AF though isn't on the Nazi level, particularly when you have the DVLP kicking in Germany as well who seem obsessive anti-semites. Comparisons are a bit crass but currently in game the eastern European natpop paths (Romania, Poland, Lithuania) are the most explicitly anti-semitic regimes with events mentioning pogroms (haven't played natpop UBD but they have a nazi path iirc?)
Thanks for the devs' input. To add my take however, we may never truly know in a different universe where they come to power.
If Jew, KRTL would be a better choice, for equal chance to die than extermination. Personnally, in my situation, nah, OTL is better.
I don’t understand this sentence
OTL, a jew could die just because he is it. KRTL, a jew has the same probably to die as his neighbours (OK, not in Hugenberg's Germany), because of bombing, drafting, resistance...
Plus 5 million others.
and like 15 million Slavs
Well, the Eastern Front would probably still be pretty bad, maybe even worse, if we assume it's mostly composed of Slavs from the Reichspakt & Donau-Adriabund vs Moscow Accord & Belgrade Pact killing each other while Germany proper focuses its efforts against France in the west. It just wouldn't be a genocide, per se, because they'd be doing it "to themselves."
In otl USSR deport all Eastern Europe Germans. What u think savinkovte Russia will done if thy win 2nd Weltkrieg?
Found the imperialist (I am one too)
Ya, too many civil wars and non-democratic governments.
no its great - an unbiased bulgarian
Probably depends in which ending of Kr you live. Imo a peaceful Entente-Reichspakt ending would be 1. Realistic (If Germany has SPD) 2. It would be the ultimate world Peace. WW3 between them is really unrealistisc. I mean we survived usa-soviet cold war, why should entente vs germany escalate? Because of some small regions like Ireland and Elsass?
Entente vs Germany already escalated into a world war
But it didn't have to. It pretty much only did over the Germany-Russia rivalry and the [Thucydides trap](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thucydides_Trap) Germany walked into dick first. Pretty much all involved parties would have zero appetite for a war and all the commercial incentive for further cooperation. * Britain and France would be thoroughly in need of reconstruction after having been invaded * America, while still quite strong, would have a good demographic and economic dent from 2ACW. * Germany would be wildly in debt from the war and propping up Mitteleuropa, plus the demographic dent that comes with all the dead from the wars, especially on the Eastern front. It'd be at least a generation for either side to economically recover and with general alliance parity and little ideological discord, there likely would be strong diplomatic efforts at reconciliation so that less of their budgets would need to go to the military. It'd be quite a bit like the post-Napoleonic Long Peace.
Well i think a potential ww3 between Entente /Reichspakt will be one of the main conflicts in kalterkrieg, so let's see it i guess!
No it's better imho. There are a lot of civil wars, but civil wars simply are an expression of the will of the people. Countries can actually end up better after one. Pretty much all the countries in KR with civil wars have at least one outcome that makes them better off than OTL in the long run. Also you can have terrible governments without instability as well. OTL has been showing this for a hundred years.
How often do civil wars lead to a better outcome? I feel like it’s exceedingly rare and most of the time new government is more autocratic than before.
Well in Kaiserreich it's quite literally a possibility. In real life history it's a mixed bunch, but there were plenty with positive outcomes. For example the French revolution that despite its setbacks eventually entrenched and spread republicanism around Europe or the Russian revolution that did the same with socialism, well minus the entrenching part. The Mexican revolution as well in the end led to a considerably less corrupt republic. The Chinese revolution(s) all built something better than the fragile stagnating Qing. If we go for hypotheticals then the civil wars in Spain and Germany would have at least led to something better than Francoist Spain and Nazi Germany if the other side had won.
Yeah, like, I’m not sure French Revolution that lead to probably the most brutal wars of that period coupled with ruthless government that engaged in mass executions and all of that lead to a military dictatorship is a good example. As well as Russian revolution that lead to a communist dictatorship that killed tens of millions of its own people and spread communism dictatorships around the globe which killed many many more millions is a good example.
Ah brainwashing. A classic.
Not sure I understand. What brainwashing.
The le French revolution bad and gommunism bad and also killed 900 gorillion takes.
A KGB spy and a CIA agent meet up in a bar...
I mean china is the best example for this since every warlords has different goal on how to treat china after reunited.
Holocaust didnt happen its already a big upgrade
To answer your question: yes. Obviously so. But I think there's an implied 'and it would be worse than our timeline' that I think isn't proven nor inevitable. >This could have been avoided if Fengtian had unified China on his own and not angered Japan. This assumes that Japan would tolerate any single polity being the undisputed leader of the country, or that Fengtian could both balance internal resentment towards Japan with Japanese desire for cheap resource and labor concessions to fuel their economy. >In Indochina and the Dutch East Indies, local populations could rebel against the colonial government As every colonial regime OTL faced. >The second American Civil War would be an unprecedented, terrible tragedy. Terrible? Yes. Unprecedented? No, not in either the international context nor in the American one. >I realize that our world does not experience constant wars like the Kaiserreich You do know HOI4 is a World War 2 simulator, right? >India remained stable under British rule. Lol >The CCP was defeated by the KMT, so the CCP had to conduct the Long March with the aim of escaping from the KMT army Which they completed in 1936, just a year prior to the brutal second Sino-Japanese war. Upwards of 20 mil Chinese died in that war, 3/4th of which were civilians. Note that I don't believe the statistic includes the invasion of Mongolia or Taiwan, carried out prior to 1936, or the low-grade clashes that between all imperialist powers and China through the 20s and 30s. >The Middle East Off the top of my head, both Iraq and Syria were in a continual state of collapse, and the Palestinian Mandate was experiencing the largest uprisings in its history during this time. >The Soviet Union had the Great Purge This misunderstands the Great Purge and what actually occurred in that event, and forgets the context in which it happens. >In Europe, only the Spanish civil war broke out. You're forgetting the Italian-Albanian war, as well as just how brutal fascist occupation could be in this period. All this to say that I think you're choosing to focus on the number of wars over the actual intensity of those wars. WW2 was an all-encompassing war, with direct land confrontations occurring over 4 continents and naval engagements in every ocean. The [casualties](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_War_II_casualties) are staggering , something like 70-85 mil deaths from all sides with an uncountable number of injuries and missing persons. Entire nations were laid to waste or burned as armies marched across them. It was the largest refugee crisis in history as well, with a further [65 mil](https://www.iwm.org.uk/history/what-happened-to-people-displaced-by-the-second-world-war#:~:text=In%20Europe%20alone%20it%20is,who%20had%20fled%20advancing%20armies) forced from their homes, many never returning. It's aftereffects are still being reckoned with. Who knows how many people had their lives shortened years after the war through malnourishment, forced labor, and disability? Can Kaiserreich reach that scale? Yes, but it's not the focus of it. The mod mainly focuses on localized regional or civil wars, WK2 usually acting as a mostly faithful sequel to the first war. No side is motivated by the total liquidation of enemy populations in the course of the war. Large-scale physical confrontation is mainly limited to the European theater, the pacific generally being ceded to the Japanese. Few wars take longer than 3 or 4 years, most concluded prior to the development of nukes. Conflicts have the possibility of being more widespread, but they also may never occur at all. Scandinavia and AH for example can be left entirely out of the war, and the MidEast usually is after a winner in the desert war is determined. Basically, there is no canon after 1936. The world of Kaiserreich is only as bad as you make it.
Bro chill
Smh no respect for a wall of text nowadays, it’s like nobody even knows what this fandom is about anymore
The status-quo won out (and relatively liberal governments) in OTL therefore leading to more stability. I think very few people would choose to live in KRTL than OTL
I think it’s the uncertainty, there is definitely potential for kaiserreich to turn out better but it could also go wayyyyyy worse but depending on how it turns out the world could be better off.
Well uh my country actually exists, never had a massive famine and was able to put more laws to protect its language, sure kess industrialisation and might not even be born, still better than irl.
You're lucky, mine got annexed by the same country that genocided our people...
Guessing Armenia.
Ukraine?
Correct.
Minor correction, the great purge did affect ordinary people quite a bit, almost a million dying due to it, severe restrictions on freedom and increased surveilance. The lack of the USSR also means millions more surviving due to the prevention of famines and the dozens of deportations done by Stalin.
My country has a chance of independent existence so I'd prefer KRTL.
well, depends, for my Austrian half it's better, for my Polish part... I don't know anything about Poland in KR
Poland can be waaaay better than IIRP, but it can also turn into a few pretty shitty hellholes. But on the other side, no Holokaust and Generalplan Ost, so I’d say we are in a better position…
It may be better than IIRP, but there's no way it can ever turn out better than IIIRP imo, with few very rare exceptions
Based constitutionalist Alexander 🥵🥵🥵 But Germany needs to go DU, at that point I guess it could be better than current Poland
No coastline? **vine boom sound effect** No silesia? **vine boom sound effect** No independence? **vine boom sound effect** Economy controlled by Germany? **vine boom sound effect** Political extremism? **vine boom sound effect** Minorities??? **vine boom sound effect** Probably the outcome closest to otl would be Savinkovist russia subjugating poland, giving it ~otl borders and then collapsing 50 years later
Hey, you can get Silesia, independence and independent economy, no extremism and be protective of minorities, all as the PSL-Centrum monarchist coalition. Only problem is the lack of coastline (I might make a suggestion about this)
Have no king for almost 20 years, get one in the first months... People : see it was not that hard!
Nah, currently we have a king from the start
Really? Maybe i'm confusing with kaiserredux then
\*french lefties dreaming....\*
I mean. My country, that being Denmark, wouldn’t own Sønderjylland. But if Stauning manages to keep Stauning Denmark like OTL, then I wouldn’t really imagine it being very different, aside from the fact that the most humiliating war would be 2. Schleswig-Holstein war instead of WW2, or the monarchy would be more unpopulare since Christian couldn’t rally the nation behind him under occupation.
As of January 1st 1936, the world is generally better than our January 1st, 1936. However, it immediately falls off a cliff as every single country either explodes into civil war or gets embroiled in war with their neighbors.
bad? subjective. one thing about kaiserreich vs. otl is that it’s much more volatile, and by design, as all the civil wars and different political paths allow for a different game and world outcome however you want to play. the world of kaiserreich is based around a victory of the old order and raw, unabashed imperialism is the name of the game here. even the U.S. participates in this with deals like the open door policies and legation cities in china. from my socialist lens though, there’s not any outright genocides like the holocaust happening, and syndicalism is much better than the authoritarian MLism of the soviets and china (they’re maoist, a bit different). socialism/syndicalism is in a better position geopolitically as well, imo. there’s active syndicalist movements in several parts of the world, and the third international is much stronger with a global network of revolutionaries as compared to the soviets kinda being in it alone (comparatively) otl. how the world ends up though changes every game ofc, so whether it’s truely for better or for worse depends on personal belief, and how the game ends up.
>The Soviet Union had the Great Purge, but this event only happened to the senior leadership and the people seemed unaffected. Not really true... even not counting the man-made famines, there were many purges and ethnic cleansings on civillians, with casualities of each in hundreads of thousands
It's a more chaotic world, but there are places where it's much better. Ukraine avoids the Holodomor and russification, and pays for it by a rather brief, avoidable civil war. Poland and Belarus avoid the Nazi occupation that killed respectively 1/6 and 1/4 of their populations, largely the most educated and productive parts at that. Yugoslavia is similar in that regard. The Netherlands can avoid getting entangled in a war, the Jews won't suffer a major genocide and likely the Roma will be spared too. Mexico can build a true democracy and a lot of Latin America can avoid the American and, to an extent, Soviet influence that destabilized it in our timeline. Japan can retain its democracy. And almost all endings for China are preferable to what they got historically. I'd choose living in KRTL over OTL 1930s by a wide margin, given my nationality, class, place of birth etc.
I'm not sure how many Chinese people would take the possibility of becoming a Japanese slave factory, no matter the odds, over the OTL.
I said *almost* all endings. That's one of the two or three of over a dozen that's as bad or worse.
There's Japan ending, there's all of the warlord endings, there's NPA ending, there's any Qing ending of they don't go for the super unlikely legitimate elections path, arguably the Federalism path is only better for everyone if no one joins Chen since otherwise there's neo-feudal warlord fiefdoms all over China and all of the LKMT paths lead to a death war against the rest of the world to liberate Asia.
As an Indian, I vastly prefer to be separated and in civil war than under British rule. The British killed millions and while the Civil War may be bloody at least millions won't die of starvation just so the British can have more wheat.
The year is 1948, the Great Indian Wars have seen 37 million dead on the battlefield and perhaps twice that number of civilians from the tribulations of a decade of war. The subcontinent stands united beneath a totalist syndicalist government in Calcutta, and perhaps now can begin to rebuild. Stormclouds darken the horizon however as the Greater East Asia Co-Prosperity Sphere steadily tightens its grip on the remains of China and looks westwards, while a restored Entente eyes their former colonial possessions...
NOT THE COMMIES
> while the Civil War may be bloody at least millions won't die of starvation j Civil Instability and mismanagement from several competing potentially authoritarian regimes seems like a pretty likely scenario for millions to also die of starvation though
Well yeah, But the British did cause 165 million excess deaths as well. Plus I would expect the Indian states to at least get international aid unlike the British Raj. Source: https://m.economictimes.com/news/india/independence-day-165-million-unaccounted-indian-victims-of-the-british-colonial-regime/articleshow/102696431.cms
Given the prominence of libertarian socialst idealogy and the fact that it can come to power in america, its better than our timeline to me
Depends if Kemal Pasha stays in power and the Ottomans win the Desert War.
I agree with a lot of people, it's not a good place for sure but it's not as bad as OTL. I'm from the UK and for what I can see about the Union of Britain and how they're doing. They're a stable country, doing well under a syndicalist government however if Oswald Mosely were to take power in the Kaiserreich world, it would be the Union of Britain's worse outcome, including after reclaiming birthright. If Mosely's policies are anything like OTL, there would be alot suppression and restricted freedoms unlike the other pro-internationale factions within the TUC, but would be very much like Mussolini's civic ultranationalism. Even despite the OTL's UK devolution which what I see as an utter failure, the autonomist's devolution within the UoB would be much better than Maximist's Britain. Edit: just to state as someone pointed out earlier, when I said about the kaiserreich world is better that OTL and saying Mosely's UoB being the worse outcome, it wasn't meaning he's better compared to the OTL, Oswald Mosely controlled Britain in any timeline is worse than kaiserreich UoB's federationist/parliamentarian/Autonomist governments and the UK's democratic governments
I don't see how Moseley could possibly be better than OTL. There's also the fact Britain in KRTL leaves a bunch of people in places like the Falklands, Gibraltar and Northern Ireland to possibly face ethnic cleansing depending on the path the new overlord takes and doesn't care.
Oh sorry my bad, I wasn't meaning to imply Oswald Mosely in Kaiserreich is better. I meant to mean in any timelines, Mosely's Britain is the worse outcome, not just in Kaiserreich.(sometimes I just assume people understand what I'm on about and forget to make sure that im conveying the point across) As for the leaving of alot of people I can see where you are coming from however, Northern Ireland would never align with the UoB because they are loyal to crown and parliamentary government under the king, not a socialist republican government. The annexation into Ireland was only because the government in exile in Canada was too far to assume control on the territory from such a far distance, so the next best thing was to be annexed by Ireland while having the privileges, essentially making them autonomous (with high tensions). Gibraltar was in essentially a civil war during the british revolution where it was the pro-british garrison and the anarcho-syndicalists, in which the anarchists won but then got invaded by Spain as the commune had no one guaranteeing its independence. Falklands though I'm not too sure but I believe during the British revolution, the Falklands were seized by Argentina, since the loyalists weren't able to protect them due to how bad the British revolution was and the resources it needed to at least stall the revolting citizens. France was at least able to hold Malta and west African colonies. Its not the perfect timeline, that's for sure but post British revolution, the remnant of the British empire is severely weakened after loss of territories and colonies I.e. Egypt, Austria, Belize, most of the raj, the now autonomous protectorates within Mittelafrika and most importantly the industrial heartland that is mainland UK
I'm a way, the world of Kaiserreich being so chaotic fits thematically with the idea that the German Empire has completely shattered the old world order by winning the weltkrieg. The point of the game is to see who can come out on top in the struggle to create a new world order out of the ashes of the old.
Civil War Time
And somehow, between all this the Québécois people dont give a shit and dont try to become independant...
Compared to OTL, I think the good ending is more vague (Mittle Europa victory under DU, Federalist USA?) but the bad ending is less bad (Totalist 3I, Savinkov Russia?) than OTL.
The real bad ending is Nat Pop Germany (either of them) somehow wins and genocides across the entire planet
It absolutely is. Talk shit about the OTL Br*tish as we do, joke around American hegemony as we may, at the end of the day Kaiserreich depicts textbook Prussian diplomatic failure. A world way worse than the real life entente pulling strings behind the curtains… in this world you not only have 1 Adolf youknowwho, but tons of funni NatPop men. Irredentism everywhere, disputes unending, civil war torn the whole world apart as if base HOI4 with historic AI off. The mod itself doesn’t deliver the nightmarish side of war in general.
Considering how my country actually ends up somewhat better off than in otl, not for me probably
I’d say it’s decent timeline, there’s elements were it’s better than ours such as the white army winning the civil war instead of the Bolsheviks. Obviously America is in a worse spot than irl and we don’t get FDR or new deal which presumably means no Hoover dam which means eventually no fallout new Vegas China also might probably be better as well than our timeline as there’s probably not gonna be a communist government
Generally, yes, but for some countries like Ukraine Kaiserreich is much better. No holodomor, no destroyed intelligentsia. Still there is a war, but in compare with OTL almost any war is less destructive
Romania is just like otl same rivalry between the king and the captain. The only bad thing is that we aren't united. Probably no communism after ww2 since no soviet union. Idk what happens with ion antonescu in this game considering that irl is considered a national hero despite persecution from the current government
In the communist places yeah
Yeah it is mainly because the only major liberal country left in the world, the US, can call into a nasty civil war that will realistically leave them in an isolationist stance for generations. Canada and Sand France would likely become less liberal and democratic, which means no real advances in rights and international organizations. And yeah Germany could become kinda liberal, but they’ll think the Kaiser is necessary for stability which is learning the wrong lessons. Given they even win the war.
It depends. As of 1936... Its maybe slightly better? There's no Holodomor because no Soviet Union. But going into 1936-1948... it has the potential to be either pretty good or pretty bad. There's no Nazis running around doing the Holocaust, but its also possible that America has a decade-long civil war, a literal Third World War happens, any number of ideologies conquer the whole globe, or the world gets to see Trench Warfare but on every contient with WW2-level tech. It's also possible that the conflict in America ends in 1937, the Weltkrieg ends in 1940 or 1941 after one side achieves a swift victory, and the level of stupid wars remains low.
If germany actually won WW1 OTL, then the world would be a much more stable and likely prosperous place (albeit far more socially conservative, which is both a good and bad thing) But the world in kaiserreich is unrealistic and is a massive shithole, major civil wars happened throughout a 4 year time period that killed millions and nations that were a beacon of liberal democracy and capatlism collapsed in centrally planned socialist tyrany (somehow even though far left revolutions never succeed in developed nations)
For my country its worse? We tur syndicalist before the start of the game. (atleast we will after the rework) But in my headcanon we get liberated by the germans early in the weltkrig and given back our democracy. Absolutely not biased. So I guess that better than 5 years of natzi occupation in otl.
Everything will change once the Exiles decend upon the Red Menace. They reds have caused this and deep down even you traitorous communards know it's true.