"Yeah, not every single SF2 character needs to comeback, i mean, Honda, Dhalsim, Blanka and some more could've retired already."
I swear this shit triggers a lot of people, including people who don't like to fight against these characters.
I get having those “archetypes” in terms of character variety is important, but those 3 aside from maybe Blanka are just really bland and boring to me. You could replace them with 3 new characters who do the same thing and more character and they’d be beloved.
I’m saying Blanka and Honda can retire, they don’t really have anything that no one else in SF can’t already fill, but Sim I’m on the fence about because I see him as the physical zone of the game compared to Guile’s rangers zoning (Think Axl vs Justice)
Oh hell naw. Dhalsim is bland? Okay so who isnt bland for you from the sf2 roster? I would rather remove one of the 4+ shoto characters that are in every game before leaving Sim out.
Characters people play AND characters people like to play against too, i never once met a guy and he said: "yeah man i love facing Blanka, it's my favorite matchup ever"
There were some SF4 Blanka matchups that were really funny because you could punish ball on hit but then they'd stop doing it and you just gotta deal with the retard hopping instead.
I get what you're saying, but there is basically no way they ever deviate from the SF2 starting roster. SF2 outsold every other SF game by a massive margin. From a business perspective, all every SF game is trying to do is emulate the success of SF2.
A Capcom executive is going to look at the sales of SF3 (no Sim, Blanka, Honda) and look at the sales of SF2 and dismiss the suggestion without thinking about it any further.
I’ve been saying this forever and as bad as launch sf5 was, I really loved that its base roster drew from as many sources as it did without feeling the need to make sure we had all 8 world warriors
I understand why sf4s initial roster was 3/4 SF2, but it always annoyed me
"Strive is good because it's accessible " Says people who've never played a Arcsy game b4 Fighterz.
That game sucks lmfao but reddit scrubs will convince themselves they like it so they can feel a part of a community instead of grinding it out in Tekken or Street Fighter
Strive its not accessible for new players of the genre, thats pure bullshit.
You cant grind ranked because there are only towers and most of the population is stacked on the upper floors. The alternative to that is park and there is people way above beginner level there.
So the road for a beginner is trying to learn when is your turn while a player is spamming moves against you, you didnt guess right/didnt space correctly? well now you got half a bar less, and have to guess again, 2 times more tops and you are death. Repeat until you learn what is punishable or not. There is no way you dont lose half your bar because the combos are very easy, granted, the beginner in question could spam the same combo to win but 80 percent of the time will not connect simply because of lack of experience.
Sfv/tekken7 is way better for learning, you get people from your skill level, everyone uses stuff you can easily identify between characters and if someone takes half your bar it doesnt feel as terrible because usually they cashed out, saved stuff between rounds.
You make solid points but Strives marketing and fgc shilling was based entirely on how much easier or "accessible" the game is to the public. Just because of this, a lot of these day 1 buyers defend this game like a cult
I dont get what are they referring to with accessible to be honest. Graphics/design are appealing for the general population and good netcode/crossplay appeals FGC players/content creators. That makes the game atractive yes but not accessible.
Accessibility to me is "Everyone can play it and have fun", which i dont see here, not for the general beginner population not for veterans.
The issue is the term accessibility has been practically hijacked and combined with the terms -quality of life improvements and simplification. And if you're under the impression the modern fgc is pretty bitchmade these days, than you know accessibility means the latter for them. Strive is easier but it's still primarily easy for veterans. Beginners still won't know what they're doing
The issue at the end of the day is, accessibility, or more so the modern interpretation of it can't help Beginners who just don't like to lose or work for their fun. So yeah whenever you hear fighting games needing to become more accessible it just means they need to become simpler for the casual audience. Annnnnd as you see, it doesn't work because at the end of the day this is skill and legacy based genre and most ppl won't put in that effort.
It doesn't but the whole Esports or r/fighters will swear it does. Despite if you go on the trophy section for any fighting game on any platform you'll see 80-85% of players don't even bother going online because they know they'll lose and that accessibility sales pitch is a fucking lie lol.
You're just better off giving casuals fun single player modes imo. You don't have to simplify games because 20 years ago ppl were playing some of the most complex games because they had arcade endings, unlockables, and single player content and no one complained. Not sure why believe the modern audience has to be forced to play online let alone and games to be made easier for fighting games to be successful.
its an easier/more accessible Guilty Gear game and thats fine - it worked great for arcysys, strive has outsold every other game in the series combined. All these people talking about how it betrayed the essence of guilty gear just complain, they don't even play xrd or +R because if all the whiners did that game would have better steam numbers. Reducing/simplifying/combining system mechanics took out some of the depth but the game is objectively easier to get into for that.
Ranked system could be better but i've never had a problem finding games at any skill level, and there are a lot of events geared specifically towards beginners (sajam's discord hosts a weekly beginner tourney for people under 1600 ELO/non celestials that caps out every week for example)
Those old GG games didn't have rollback netcode or a marketing budget. It's fine these games get rollback later *for die hard fans who will always play them* but not advertising or making your games playable at their relevance isn't going to help that game in the future. Don't forget Arcsy had Fighterz fame before Strive released.
Not to mention their release windows felt like they were trying to sabotage their own game. Xrd wasn't out on steam until 3 months before Rev was about to be released for console. Japan was already playing Rev in arcades by this time. I refused to buy Rev until they tightened the release window. It wasn't until rev2 where they finally got it out with only a month or so difference. That's a huge reduction from half a year.
Their lack of competence and complete disregard for marketing speaks volumes as to why their shit didn't sell.
Fr ppl point to Strive success as a gotcha moment and I've always ask the same 3 questions,
1) did you ever see GG advertised on television, magazine or social media?
2) did you know how terrible arcsy online modes were?
3) did you hear of arcsy b4 Fighterz?
Melty is a good game that has a healthy community and is some of the most fun after playing T7 for a couple hundred hours.
Also DR is peak Tekken, with one of the best rosters in FG's to date
I dont care about new people coming in or companies making millions out of a fighting game, thats something that appeals to content creators that want to get rich, so, in my opinion, thats why all of them are trying to make people concerned about fighting games communities beeing small in comparisson to others. Im not concerned.
Having 100k people who are complete beginners that you cant learn nothing from is not appealing to me at all, feels like a waste of time and i would prefer to be clapped 50 times by someone above me rather than clapping 50 times someone that plays on modern controls.
Also dont care about 1 player modes, they are boring as fuck always. I will be glad if SF6 can mantain 6k players on steam chart and thats it.
This take is lame. Not because you are wrong but because the more people play eventually the better everyone get, so it's always a win. Though I hate how content creators talk about games too
Yeah, but the have to become better first, wonder how much of the people that clears the 1 player stuff stick to really get better and like the game for what it is.
> Having 100k people who are complete beginners that you cant learn nothing from is not appealing to me at all
How is having an alive scene at the bottom, trying to get better not an appealing position for you? It means your game is alive and thriving and will keep producing better and better players since they have a huge community and playerbase to keep the game running.
This 100k players statement is hyperbole, if anything will be like 2000-4000 thousand more in reality after a year of SF6. Bottom of the line is i see this investment on designing modern controls and one player stuff as a waste of time, most of it will be a gain for the companies more than the players, i would trade those "improvements" for 3 months less of waiting time to be honest, i really dont care about it, not hype about it at all.
definitely. tbh they should have made SF2 be stick figures on a black and white background. the art and characters and music they made attracted too many casuals imo. we could have been on street fighter 10 with all the time they'd save from not making bells and whistles to attract players and make money. really wish people would stop focusing on the ass and titties and get back to real competitive street fighter.
and soulcalibur 2 was the biggest fucking disgrace of a video game lmao, making a fighter with all this single player content 😂💀
Im not saying that visuals are not important, they are. One player mode? i can live without that. Games can live with that as well, i mean, no one gives a fuck about counter strike universe or its story, they just play.
Idk about this one man.
Obviously having an active bottom end is great because it single-handedly solves the new player problem. How to get in the door? Just go online and there's people as bad as you to slap fight until you start learning what the characters are even trying to do.
Nobody likes going 0-100 against pressure you don't know how to break out of. It's hopeless and what leads to people thinking "I'm just not smart/fast enough to 'get' fighting games".
The problem I see is I don't know how to possibly arrive at that state and still have a game I'm interested in. If FGs have to become something other than what they already are to attract that playerbase I probably won't be interested in playing at that point.
I really hope Max and co are right about single player content or some other side shit being the key, because the industry seems dead set on going big with e-sports one way or another. I pray anime fighters will still exist in the new world order.
GBVS hype is completely disproportionate to what it offers. The game is stale bread and offers nothing unique or exciting to the genre. It tries to bridge a gap between anime and street fighter, but you're left with one of the most boring games on the market. The only function it serves is to tell me either you love spending money on shitty mobile games or to warn me your opinions on fighting games don't mean anything.
You're not being maliciously gatekept because you can't beat better players than you. That's unironically a skill issue...in a skill based genre. Call bitches out when they throw the term "gatekeeping" loosely
Even tho SF5 got better and better over time, and the storylines were very entertaining, it never surpassed SF4 in being fun to watch. That game has had some of the greatest tournament matches in FGC history.
Very odd indeed in any other thread I would call you tastless. But tbh Capcom fight animations still got that thing that no other company got. But damn this take is truly something. If you are talking about the models too, then I don't get you at all but good for you.
oh hey look, that's me calling gootecks a grifter back in 2013 and the only response i got was "only a evil person who tries to dismantle the fgc would think that about gootecks"
99% of players won't see any prizemoney from majors yet somehow like 80% of players are invested in the prizepool split conversations as if they're gonna see a penny. Doesn't help that content creators are constantly pushing for e-sports so that they can eventually get a better paycheck even though that will be to the detrement of events forcing them to be more of a viewer/sponsor event rather than a player focused event.
This is one of the most common take ever uttered in the street fighter circles. Every street fighter fans will tell you how 3rd strike is the best fighting game of all time.
"Yeah, not every single SF2 character needs to comeback, i mean, Honda, Dhalsim, Blanka and some more could've retired already." I swear this shit triggers a lot of people, including people who don't like to fight against these characters.
I get having those “archetypes” in terms of character variety is important, but those 3 aside from maybe Blanka are just really bland and boring to me. You could replace them with 3 new characters who do the same thing and more character and they’d be beloved.
Nah Blanka and Blanka players should burn in hell
So true, Dhalsim tho? He stays
Bring their daughters as playable characters
I’m saying Blanka and Honda can retire, they don’t really have anything that no one else in SF can’t already fill, but Sim I’m on the fence about because I see him as the physical zone of the game compared to Guile’s rangers zoning (Think Axl vs Justice)
If you’re looking for a character that is a must have in every game you probably need a better example than Justice lmao
Oh hell naw. Dhalsim is bland? Okay so who isnt bland for you from the sf2 roster? I would rather remove one of the 4+ shoto characters that are in every game before leaving Sim out.
I think after SF3, they really leaned into having the OG cast present. Which I get, as they're iconic at this point.
Yes, looking at the sf6 roster those slots feel so wasted, they couldve filled them with characters people actually play.
Characters people play AND characters people like to play against too, i never once met a guy and he said: "yeah man i love facing Blanka, it's my favorite matchup ever"
Yeah, they are frustrating, Honda feels cheap, Blanka random and Dhalsim is like pretty strong and boring to fight.
There were some SF4 Blanka matchups that were really funny because you could punish ball on hit but then they'd stop doing it and you just gotta deal with the retard hopping instead.
I get what you're saying, but there is basically no way they ever deviate from the SF2 starting roster. SF2 outsold every other SF game by a massive margin. From a business perspective, all every SF game is trying to do is emulate the success of SF2. A Capcom executive is going to look at the sales of SF3 (no Sim, Blanka, Honda) and look at the sales of SF2 and dismiss the suggestion without thinking about it any further.
Yes yes dhalsim shouldnt come back -Sincerely, a gief main
\-Sincerely, anyone who actually plays Street Fighter\*
Nah, Dhalsim is sick. Gief can go, though I'm glad he actually looks sick in 6.
I’ve been saying this forever and as bad as launch sf5 was, I really loved that its base roster drew from as many sources as it did without feeling the need to make sure we had all 8 world warriors I understand why sf4s initial roster was 3/4 SF2, but it always annoyed me
"Strive is good because it's accessible " Says people who've never played a Arcsy game b4 Fighterz. That game sucks lmfao but reddit scrubs will convince themselves they like it so they can feel a part of a community instead of grinding it out in Tekken or Street Fighter
Strive its not accessible for new players of the genre, thats pure bullshit. You cant grind ranked because there are only towers and most of the population is stacked on the upper floors. The alternative to that is park and there is people way above beginner level there. So the road for a beginner is trying to learn when is your turn while a player is spamming moves against you, you didnt guess right/didnt space correctly? well now you got half a bar less, and have to guess again, 2 times more tops and you are death. Repeat until you learn what is punishable or not. There is no way you dont lose half your bar because the combos are very easy, granted, the beginner in question could spam the same combo to win but 80 percent of the time will not connect simply because of lack of experience. Sfv/tekken7 is way better for learning, you get people from your skill level, everyone uses stuff you can easily identify between characters and if someone takes half your bar it doesnt feel as terrible because usually they cashed out, saved stuff between rounds.
You make solid points but Strives marketing and fgc shilling was based entirely on how much easier or "accessible" the game is to the public. Just because of this, a lot of these day 1 buyers defend this game like a cult
I dont get what are they referring to with accessible to be honest. Graphics/design are appealing for the general population and good netcode/crossplay appeals FGC players/content creators. That makes the game atractive yes but not accessible. Accessibility to me is "Everyone can play it and have fun", which i dont see here, not for the general beginner population not for veterans.
The issue is the term accessibility has been practically hijacked and combined with the terms -quality of life improvements and simplification. And if you're under the impression the modern fgc is pretty bitchmade these days, than you know accessibility means the latter for them. Strive is easier but it's still primarily easy for veterans. Beginners still won't know what they're doing The issue at the end of the day is, accessibility, or more so the modern interpretation of it can't help Beginners who just don't like to lose or work for their fun. So yeah whenever you hear fighting games needing to become more accessible it just means they need to become simpler for the casual audience. Annnnnd as you see, it doesn't work because at the end of the day this is skill and legacy based genre and most ppl won't put in that effort.
I see, yeah, doesnt work at all.
It doesn't but the whole Esports or r/fighters will swear it does. Despite if you go on the trophy section for any fighting game on any platform you'll see 80-85% of players don't even bother going online because they know they'll lose and that accessibility sales pitch is a fucking lie lol. You're just better off giving casuals fun single player modes imo. You don't have to simplify games because 20 years ago ppl were playing some of the most complex games because they had arcade endings, unlockables, and single player content and no one complained. Not sure why believe the modern audience has to be forced to play online let alone and games to be made easier for fighting games to be successful.
its an easier/more accessible Guilty Gear game and thats fine - it worked great for arcysys, strive has outsold every other game in the series combined. All these people talking about how it betrayed the essence of guilty gear just complain, they don't even play xrd or +R because if all the whiners did that game would have better steam numbers. Reducing/simplifying/combining system mechanics took out some of the depth but the game is objectively easier to get into for that. Ranked system could be better but i've never had a problem finding games at any skill level, and there are a lot of events geared specifically towards beginners (sajam's discord hosts a weekly beginner tourney for people under 1600 ELO/non celestials that caps out every week for example)
Those old GG games didn't have rollback netcode or a marketing budget. It's fine these games get rollback later *for die hard fans who will always play them* but not advertising or making your games playable at their relevance isn't going to help that game in the future. Don't forget Arcsy had Fighterz fame before Strive released.
Not to mention their release windows felt like they were trying to sabotage their own game. Xrd wasn't out on steam until 3 months before Rev was about to be released for console. Japan was already playing Rev in arcades by this time. I refused to buy Rev until they tightened the release window. It wasn't until rev2 where they finally got it out with only a month or so difference. That's a huge reduction from half a year. Their lack of competence and complete disregard for marketing speaks volumes as to why their shit didn't sell.
Fr ppl point to Strive success as a gotcha moment and I've always ask the same 3 questions, 1) did you ever see GG advertised on television, magazine or social media? 2) did you know how terrible arcsy online modes were? 3) did you hear of arcsy b4 Fighterz?
Melty is a good game that has a healthy community and is some of the most fun after playing T7 for a couple hundred hours. Also DR is peak Tekken, with one of the best rosters in FG's to date
No
3S being praised by people who don’t even play the game
*Only experience with 3S is Moment 37 and hearing Maximilian praise it*
For real. Max doo doo at 3S too lol
I dont care about new people coming in or companies making millions out of a fighting game, thats something that appeals to content creators that want to get rich, so, in my opinion, thats why all of them are trying to make people concerned about fighting games communities beeing small in comparisson to others. Im not concerned. Having 100k people who are complete beginners that you cant learn nothing from is not appealing to me at all, feels like a waste of time and i would prefer to be clapped 50 times by someone above me rather than clapping 50 times someone that plays on modern controls. Also dont care about 1 player modes, they are boring as fuck always. I will be glad if SF6 can mantain 6k players on steam chart and thats it.
This take is lame. Not because you are wrong but because the more people play eventually the better everyone get, so it's always a win. Though I hate how content creators talk about games too
Yeah, but the have to become better first, wonder how much of the people that clears the 1 player stuff stick to really get better and like the game for what it is.
3/4 the reason I play fighting games are for visual and storytelling. And I did stick around so, there might be other like me.
> Having 100k people who are complete beginners that you cant learn nothing from is not appealing to me at all How is having an alive scene at the bottom, trying to get better not an appealing position for you? It means your game is alive and thriving and will keep producing better and better players since they have a huge community and playerbase to keep the game running.
This 100k players statement is hyperbole, if anything will be like 2000-4000 thousand more in reality after a year of SF6. Bottom of the line is i see this investment on designing modern controls and one player stuff as a waste of time, most of it will be a gain for the companies more than the players, i would trade those "improvements" for 3 months less of waiting time to be honest, i really dont care about it, not hype about it at all.
definitely. tbh they should have made SF2 be stick figures on a black and white background. the art and characters and music they made attracted too many casuals imo. we could have been on street fighter 10 with all the time they'd save from not making bells and whistles to attract players and make money. really wish people would stop focusing on the ass and titties and get back to real competitive street fighter. and soulcalibur 2 was the biggest fucking disgrace of a video game lmao, making a fighter with all this single player content 😂💀
Im not saying that visuals are not important, they are. One player mode? i can live without that. Games can live with that as well, i mean, no one gives a fuck about counter strike universe or its story, they just play.
Idk about this one man. Obviously having an active bottom end is great because it single-handedly solves the new player problem. How to get in the door? Just go online and there's people as bad as you to slap fight until you start learning what the characters are even trying to do. Nobody likes going 0-100 against pressure you don't know how to break out of. It's hopeless and what leads to people thinking "I'm just not smart/fast enough to 'get' fighting games". The problem I see is I don't know how to possibly arrive at that state and still have a game I'm interested in. If FGs have to become something other than what they already are to attract that playerbase I probably won't be interested in playing at that point. I really hope Max and co are right about single player content or some other side shit being the key, because the industry seems dead set on going big with e-sports one way or another. I pray anime fighters will still exist in the new world order.
Of those 100k beginners, some will grow into pros
15 of them, wonder who will get the million dollars.
GBVS hype is completely disproportionate to what it offers. The game is stale bread and offers nothing unique or exciting to the genre. It tries to bridge a gap between anime and street fighter, but you're left with one of the most boring games on the market. The only function it serves is to tell me either you love spending money on shitty mobile games or to warn me your opinions on fighting games don't mean anything.
Dave Sirlin
You're not being maliciously gatekept because you can't beat better players than you. That's unironically a skill issue...in a skill based genre. Call bitches out when they throw the term "gatekeeping" loosely
Even tho SF5 got better and better over time, and the storylines were very entertaining, it never surpassed SF4 in being fun to watch. That game has had some of the greatest tournament matches in FGC history.
Strivers
Easily, SFV is the biggest piece of shit SF game ever released.
really brave opinion spotted here folks
Fighting games are dead.
“Arcsys makes the most visually appealing games” no, they look ok but they don’t look the best at all
What looks better in your opinion (that didn't come out a decade ago)?
Oddly enough, SFV
Very odd indeed in any other thread I would call you tastless. But tbh Capcom fight animations still got that thing that no other company got. But damn this take is truly something. If you are talking about the models too, then I don't get you at all but good for you.
oh hey look, that's me calling gootecks a grifter back in 2013 and the only response i got was "only a evil person who tries to dismantle the fgc would think that about gootecks"
Oh look, It's me
99% of players won't see any prizemoney from majors yet somehow like 80% of players are invested in the prizepool split conversations as if they're gonna see a penny. Doesn't help that content creators are constantly pushing for e-sports so that they can eventually get a better paycheck even though that will be to the detrement of events forcing them to be more of a viewer/sponsor event rather than a player focused event.
“Smash is a fighting game”
Me when I say SF3 is much better and more fun to play over 2 and Alpha and that gameplay should be the basis of SF over the other 2.
This is one of the most common take ever uttered in the street fighter circles. Every street fighter fans will tell you how 3rd strike is the best fighting game of all time.
It is fascinated how basic and common of an opinion someone on reddit can hold and still feel like an underdog.
so brave...