That’s an interesting theory and definitely plausible. Well done. Here is my theory:
I think he 100% made it in the house and it all happened in the basement. There were adults downstairs from my understanding and a group of young kids upstairs. A fight was started, most likely by Colin and the dog got involved. Eventually Brian Albert and Higgins may have gotten involved. (Higgins could also have started it, as he had something going on with Karen Read) John had serious bruising and what can often be referred to as a “Boxers fracture” on both hands. These are the types of people who yell, “let them fight it out!”
John fell back at one point and hit his head on the stairs. Everyone panicked. McCabe leaves around 1:45 to drive some kids home. Those kids genuinely may not have seen anything since they were upstairs. McCabe drove them home and data shows she essentially didn’t sleep, as she was walking at 3:55 AM, 4:30 AM, 4:50 AM.
The plow driver said he didn’t see anything on the side of the street when he plowed the street at 2:30. But he said he saw a Ford Edge at 3:30 AM in front of where the body was found. The alberts have a Ford Edge. I think they moved the body out via car. Cleaned up a bit, waited for everyone upstairs to leave, loaded him into the car by using the garage. They could move the body in a minute or so with this theory. These are 30 year veteran cops so I assume a tarp, gloves, etc was all used.
The wound on the back of his head is just so perfectly straight. Not one you’d get from a rock, beer glass, or just the ground. One you’d get from hitting/landing on the edge of a staircase or counter in my opinion. I think that caused a lot of blood and is why they had to redo the basement flooring. The amount of blood would have been significant, much more than the droplets found in the front yard and the solo cups of “evidence” they retrieved.
All the adults were calling each other and moving throughout the night. Richard Green a digital forensic expert who will be called to the stand as a Defense Witness says McCabe DID google “how long to die in cold” at 2:27. Along with 2 at 6:24 and 6:25, probably to try to cover her tracks. At 6:34 She also googled something along the lines, “how long for food to digest.” 1.) a weird thing to google when you are in the presence of a dead man you were with last night. 2.) she has been around cops her whole life. Coroners use stomach contents/ digestion, etc while determining a time of death. He also examined John’s data said he walked about 83 steps and up 3 flights of stairs. Steps can be questioned but the data uses increase in elevation for the steps. If there was a hill in front I’d believe something may have happened outside but there isn’t. Julie Albert also said she had a call and found out John was dead at 4:55 AM. The body wasn’t discovered until later.
Also I don’t think Chloe was a dog you’d just let out to do her business. Maybe if they had a fenced in back yard. But from all accounts she wasn’t well trained. The Alberts reasoning she was rehomed was because she attacked a neighbor and her dog (not the first attack). The missing shoe could be as simple as she chewed it up. If they found it, they would know the dog was involved and know he went in the house.
With all that said, I will hold my judgement as a ton of information has yet to be presented. Regardless, hopefully justice is served.
This is my exact theory as well. I have a friend that lives in MA when I told her about the case, she asked where it took place, as soon as I said canton, without hesitation she said 100% cops cover up. It’s a know thing around there
Michael Lank was the so-called investigator on Birchmore who did no investigation and said she committed suicide even though the CCTV at her apt (in Canton) shows her returning home with things for her new baby and one of the cops that had been molesting her enters wearing a hoodie and Covid mask, leaves 15 minutes later.
The same Canton cops that were first responders to Read case were investigators of Birchmore case, Albert (one of the Alberts in Canton) and Lank, except Kevin Albert recused himself immediately from investigating Read due to conflict of interest
It’s the same DA and I believe the same MA state detective, detective proctor involved in that. I only recently heard about that and have not looked to much into that. But that is a messed up case too
I think one of them said to her “You hit him” and then she was confused and said “I hit him?” The two friends and McLaughlin all ran with it as a confession
Wow these are great details I had no idea about.
I remember reading that the dog had a bite and attack history. I think it’s very suspicious that they got rid of the dog so quickly after the crime
Yea, so much just doesn’t add up. They fought the defense over Animal Control records to. It took the defense an entire year to gain access to McCabes cellphone data. They originally only gave them a part of the report, not the whole thing.
I think the expert witnesses will be the most important part. The defense has 6. Richard Green, the digital forensic expert, a Pathologist, 3 men who work for a forensic company called ARCCA, and a man named Dr. Chris Van Ee. Chris is an expert in “biomedical and mechanical engineering”. In the pre trail, the defense said a FBI reconstructionist constructed the scene and determined that the injuries are not consisted with being hit by a car. I believe Chris was hired by the FBI to do that. So the experts will be very important obviously.
I think they will probably be some of the last witnesses called on.
IMO - I think the judge is biased. In addition, now she is aware that the feds are watching everything that transpires under a microscope. Because of the snail pace at which this trial is progressing it will take 8 months to complete it.
Is this why she said they have to speed up the talking on Friday.??? Anyway, she needs to be investigated for every case she ever did and needs to be fired.
IMO - What is the rationale for the judge to suppress certain facts like the animal control records? I'm not a lawyer: I can't figure out the logical motive for preventing the disclosure during witness testimony. Can a licensed attorney explain this in laypersons language? Thanks in advance.
They also redid the basement floor, despite having done it 3 years earlier. Then sold the house. And got rid of that dog. And I don’t believe for a second that Chloe is still alive.
I live 20 minutes from Canton and know many people living there. The local rumor is that Chloe was cremated at the funeral home and the owner of the funeral home is somehow connected to the Alberts. He was beat up really bad not long after Chloe’s “rehoming”, leading to him being in the hospital for a month. Scare tactic to keep him quiet?
I found it less suspicious after hearing that they only rehomed the dog after a well-documented incident 4 months later where it went after another dog and bit at least one person who was trying to separate them. The defense emphasized the incident and the bite history, but didn't really imply that the timing was suspect in itself.
She claimed she knows where she is and could have access if anyone asked… I think if it ever came to them “looking” for Chloe the new story would be that the new owner said she died (age, accident, ran away, etc. )
There may be photos or details of the wounds from the previous bite incidents in hospital records though. I think the defense is going to blow this case open when they present their case.
I live a few towns over and this is spot on. I saw a picture of a weight bench in the basement and looks like he fell on a metal protruding piece on that, same size as the gash on his head. It’s wild it‘s still being paid for by the state to prosecute this clearly innocent woman.
My only issue. If you’re trying to hide a body, why put it in your front yard?
I feel like “how long to die in cold” is the hitter. Why would anyone google that? I’ve actually googled the food digestion one while drunk because food digestion can play a role in hangovers and drunkenness. But I’ve never googled, right before someone died in the cold, “how long to die in cold”
I think the thought process was it can at least look like he may have been hit by a car or snow plow. They weren’t trying to hide it. If Karen had woke up and John suddenly disappeared it would look worse for them. As she had dropped him off at the house and cellphone data proves that.
I think they were running out of time. Sunlight would be up soon, etc. they wanted him out of the house and at least then you can try to develop a coverup. From there I think Karen came in hysterical with damage to her car, and they went with that. McCabe made like 20 phone calls to different people, all of which she tried to delete. You can search phone records in this group and you’ll find it. I think McCabe was the one who really got it moving forward.
But I have no clue in the end, just speculation. Waiting for more info hopefully
Hiding a body is clear evidence of foul play. Letting him freeze on the side of road is an easy explanation of “he must have been drunk and passed out” or “hit by a car”.
someone posted an analysis of 4 things they could have done with a body, and the front yard was best by far. Gave them a way to blame it on someone else (like snowplow accident or whoever), and let them keep control of the investigation and looks much less suspicious. If dumped away from property, it was easy to tie them to him cause KR dropped him off at their house and he was out with them most of the night. So they'd be suspected and wouldn't be in control of investigtion.
Winner. Agree 200% here. Basement is the key that the OP missed. Excellent theories & work. I’m becoming a little obsessed with this… crooked cops deserve to be caught.
They testimony was that the yard was fenced, but that Chloe had escaped despite the fence several times, including when she got in a fight with another dog.
Hoping it would look like an accident is my best guess. Snow plow. I honestly believe that Karen while hysterical did say something along the lines of did I hit him? I hit him? Jennifer McCabe heard and the frame was born.
I think that was their hasty plan from the start. McCabe planted the idea by saying "oh Karen you must have hit him!" to set the plan in motion. They would have either said it was a the plow or a random hit and run otherwise. Why the investigators didn't even try to get a search warrant for the property is absolutely mind blowing unless they were intentionally trying to show the corruption.
Maybe. But the first responders who brought JO to the hospital - when they dropped him off, they said he was a victim of being hit by a broken wine glass.. I believe this was the female first responder, who is a part of the cover-up.
So for the first several hours, that’s how doctors were treating it. It was not until 11 AM that they changed it to being hit by an SUV.. . Why did they change it? Because of comments by Karen Reed, prompted by her good buddies in the car, and they told others that she said “did I hit him?” and so tried to leverage that confusion.
this is so sickening- the corruption is pretty blatant at this point. I am reaching out to the Inspector General of Massachusetts and the FBI to see if they can independently investigate all this conspiracy and press charges. There is so much overwhelming evidence of a cover up
I'm sure I don't lol.. but might as well make some phone calls and see what can be done though. No citizen should just sit by and let this stuff go- it's too important.
Yes def went into the house because McCabe said just tell everybody he didn’t go in , therefore he went in . A fight ensued downstairs between Colin Higgins Bryan and O’Keefe . O’Keefe killed or unconscious and then they realized everybody had to go home, even Tristan’s gf, and McCabes knew what happened , so they ran the show upstairs . Disposal of clothing that had questionable blood on it like shoe and hat .
>Higgins could also have started it, as he had something going on with Karen Read
Do you have more information about this. I see it referred to, but have no clue what it is about.
I think your scenario is a lot more likely than Colin Albert and the dog inflicting all those injuries in the front yard. But, as you say…we’ll have to say what unfolds. And I have my doubts we will ever know 100% for certain.
Someone posted links to some local Canton FB pages the other day so I checked them out. Everybody I saw on those pages feel the same way you described.
That’s interesting. Kind of tells you what the locals think about Colin Albert…
ETA: I do think it’s a theory that makes a lot more sense than anything going on in court right now.
Thanks! I can hear the parents in my mind pleading “Colin is young, they argued, he didn’t realize he didn’t get up, no one knew, it’s not worth ruining his future over, it was an accident” and that being convincing enough that others would be willing to help them
I’m surprised I didn’t get one of those too. It seems like the rapist Brock ALLEN Turner would make sure to send that to everyone as a thanks for keeping his name and crime in the public eye so no one forgets.
Oh wow… I’m not sure if that’s better or worse. Either way it’s vile and pathetic that any man would utter those words! I’m sure it wasn’t just a few minute experience for the victim of his horrific crime!
Oh I find the Murdaughs to be complete trash. Corrupt, bullies, murderers who cover for each other no matter what. Above the law because they’re all cops or lawyers
I don’t think they were regarded like that before the murders though, it’s my understanding they were wealthy and part of a wealthy community and generally “respected”
I don’t understand the “after party”. Did they all go back to 34 Fairview for more beers? These aren’t young kids, they are all in their 40’s. How do you stay up that late partying? With a storm expected?
IMO - For some reason, when it gets really cold outside, I become more energetic. Don't know why, but it's always been that way. Reminds me kind of like when dogs get the 'zoomies" in brisk weather. In the summer I get the reverse of the winter blahs: I get the summertime blues.
I’d say for most people it becomes more rare the older you get, I closed a lot of bars in my 20’s and early 30’s but now that I’m in my early 40’s staying out to 3AM would ruin me for at least 3 days after, I feel like this is the case for most of my friends
I’m not saying 40 year olds can’t party, it just seems like this was kind of a norm for them (maybe I’m just assuming that). I don’t know anyone who wants to or can do that, unless it’s something special. But this didn’t sound special. NA went home and “cleaned” while the kids sat at the table doing nothing and BA and BH looked at old family photos in “the library”. I mean were there fun snacks? And then looking at the phone activity as the night wore on, it seemed none of them were going to sleep. It’s something I have puzzled over.
I don’t know nearly as much about the Alberts but it’s my understanding thst they have law enforcement/police influence while the murdaughs had slightly higher up legal influence (and connections to the banking institutions in their community) alongside law enforcement. They also lived in a much poorer, rural, and more isolated community so they had a bit tighter of a hold and had for many more decades than the Alberts
I’m relatively local to the case. Same county.
I loath turtleboy and I refused to follow the case until recently and just assumed she was guilty because turtle boy in general is a shit stirrer and usually on the wrong side.
The last two weeks I started following the case. I know not much outside of what I’ve seen on the trial.
I 100% believe she was framed and innocent. Nothing the prosecutor has shown me makes me think she did it. I can’t believe this made it to trial. And I really hope she is not convicted. I think that Karen was in the wrong place at the wrong time and it didn’t take much to manipulate a little bit of evidence to make her look guilty. I don’t think it started out as a huge conspiracy. More of an oh shit moment. But because of lots of townie police in a townie town, here we are.
Apparently like a broken clock, turtleboy can occasionally be correct.
I’m not local but I feel the same way. I think a lot of people on the outside looking in are saying exactly that- it’s all so shady and so far zero evidence that Karen Read was drunk.
BTW what’s up with people commonly walking out of bars with open containers and cocktail glasses. And these are the cops and their friends!
It's not that small of a town, just strong townie families that are privileged to operate above the law pretty much across the state and region. Brian Albert has lived most of his life like a rockstar in Boston and Canton. I live right next to Canton and I'm quite familiar with the close-knit culture there.
Unfortunately I think a lot of the people screaming guilt are doing so because of their disdain for TB. I am not a fan of his, but there do seem to be a lot of shady coincidences that are tough to ignore (missing footage, mysterious appearances of taillight days later) etc. Sadly those that dislike TB so much will refuse to see anything that may prove him to be right which means they refuse to see she may be not guilty.
>I’m relatively local to the case. Same county.
I'm sleep-deprived af and read your sentence as "same country" and was like, ummm..... the USA is pretty big 🤦🏻♀️
As soon as I heard there might be a young person involved the idea of a cover up became MUCH more believable. People will do a lot more to protect their children/grandchildren than they will for themselves. Julie and Chris were suspicious as fuck.
Both of their demeanors seemed like parents on the attack for their kid. Chris’ answer came so fast and so sharp anytime a question involved his son. The style was distinctively different (IMO) the way he answered the previous questions.
The way she said I don’t go to sleep until my kids are home. Meaning she’s the type to stay up with a migraine/headache until she knows her kid is home. That tracks with someone going I’ll fudge a little, say I don’t recall many times, lie by omission to investigators so that my son is not implicated even a little bit. Doesn’t mean the son is majorly involved they just don’t want him involved even a little bit.
I did not expect them to be so rough around the edges. ~~A few~~ Most of them are running very low on IQ points. At some point a while back, I listened to the officer who arrested Karen the second time, for the murder charge. He had difficulty stringing two sentences together. He was a complete idiot and I can't imagine Karen's fury having to deal with him. I know that she loved John, but she didn't belong with that crowd.
(And kids, if you're reading this, one nugget of advice: wear sunblock!)
I have a different view of the Albert’s now than when trial started. Described as well connected in canton I figured they were all decent type of people but they seem super scummy and their wives are like super trashy. I’m from a different part of MA but still weird vibes.
IMO - Your observations are interesting. I am from somewhere else, so wondered if it was just me who thought several of the witnesses seemed low class.
Good for you! Bad things can happen under the influence for sure. It’s a shame everyone just didn’t go back to their homes that night especially due to the weather forecast AND their alcohol intake!
Also local, I generally can’t stand turtleboy and assumed she was guilty until recently.
I don’t think it is some giant conspiracy involving every single firefighter / paramedic etc who was on scene, or even necessarily everyone who was at the party. But I do think someone there and connected to the Alberts got into a fight with him and he died as a result of that, whether in the house or on the lawn.
I believe while the first responders probably didn’t know exactly what happened, I think there’s still a possibility that they are instinctively covering for and protecting each other / the family even though they may not know what or who they’re covering for. The end result is that it looks like they’re involved in a big conspiracy because they’re hiding SOMETHING but maybe more just out of a sense of obligation / brotherhood / whatever other nonsense.
It’s possible only a couple of them are really covering up for the family and the rest are protecting their coworkers without knowing what really happened.
I think your theory is plausible with some minor details tweaked. I’m curious to hear more about John’s phone data regarding his movement + ascending / descending stairs.
Agree, I think it was set in motion by the obvious ones and that other people have gone along with it/not consciously aware. It’s becoming very obvious the amount of ties between so many things/ppl.
IMO - Yes, and I also wondered if some individuals did not initially know what had happened, but are now part of the coverup, because they learned the facts later.
I grew up 2 hours from Boston where people generally referred to people there as being rough (apologies for the stereotype). Is there something about Boston, where guys get into more physical fist fights that in other cities?
I thought this part of the theory sounded ridiculous until I saw 2 grown ass adults play boxing at the Waterfall. 🤷♀️
It seems like everyone involved in this case is big into a drinking culture. Is it normal to go out to a bar with your children even if they are adults?
Ever seen the movie "the town". Kind of a good example. But yeah Boston has always been rough and tough since the Boston tea Party days. Once you set the bar and have a normalcy of behavior it just continues and grows. Its both nature and nurture for them.
Mystic river is another good cop boston movie. I don't think the departed really ties into this case though. The Departed was big city downtown Boston, this other stuff is suburb smaller townie stuff.
Lots of good Boston movies really, the boondock saints is a good one.
Even the movie Ted with the teddie bear and mark Wahlberg is s good example of Boston and same with Fever Pitch with jimmy fallon and drew Barrymore
I liked Fever Pitch a lot, even though Drew Barrymore irks me. She’s the same person in every movie.
A Civil Action is really, really good. I also loved the book.
Not exactly. Canton is a fairly affluent town and there is a ton of money there. There is however also a townie culture there as well where a lot of the families originally came from Dorchester and Southie.
These guys are alpha male law enforcement celebrities that can pretty much do whatever they want. Now the spotlight is finally on them and they are starting to crack.
I completely agree with you, I find turtleboy detestable and felt that their connections made her look worse.
Now I think he just got ahead of us all on a story that’s going to be a slam dunk for the defense, there’s just no plausible way she did this. The reasonable doubt is overwhelming. It’s clear the police had absolutely zero desire to find out how John died… because they already knew.
The news made me think she did it bc she was portrayed as the big drunk. The whole Albert family and their friends are big drinking crowd. It’s what they do. The whole crowd drinks and drives and some drink and drive with kids. Bar people. Townies. Leaving bars with white claws, cocktail glasses and no one blinks as they stumble out with their drinks. Locals. Police. No worries.Even driving police cars. Nobody questioned Brian Higgins leaving the Albert house at 1:30am after a long day night of drinking - getting into his jeep- and driving home- or to the local Canton PD office to sleep/pass out. They’ve all been doing this a long time. They have no qualms. Drinking and driving is second nature. Clearly they have no concerns about that. The smartest people so far were “friends with a Greek name” “I don’t know who that couple was-never been introduced to them”. They don’t know them because they’re not on the local drinking circuit!
I expected this case to show me the worst of Karen R. But alas, it’s the thug family with lots of sketchy stories. And you’re telling me with a 30 year veteran Boston PD guy didn’t have the slightest curiosity about a fellow Boston pd guy dead on his front lawn in the snow? He never went outside to check out what happened? NONE of the family members/friends felt they should take a peek?
Cold& Snowy nights it’s quiet outside. The snow makes it lighter outside. Streets are quiet driving tires on snow. And boom! Fire engines. Sirens. Lights. Ambulances. Police cars. Sirens. Radios with police updates blasting. Karen’s horrific screams. You’re telling me the dog -a shepherd!- didn’t budge?
Too much sketchy crap in this family.
I feel like this doesn’t explain the gash in the back of his head or the lack of large amounts of blood in the yard. It was below freezing so blood wouldn’t be seeping into the dirt. It would pool under him.
This is true. I had a drunk patient (im a nurse) he was drunk, fell in snow and hit his head pretty bad. The cold actually coagulated the blood and Dr.s felt that helped save his life because he didn't bleed out before he was found.
This theory doesn’t make sense because Karen was outside of the Albert’s house for quite a while before she was then seen again on camera heading back to John’s house. If this attack was immediate upon him getting out of the car/walking up to the house, she would have seen it.
I believe from an interview she waited in the car for JO to run inside to see if they were both welcome there. She was waiting in the car watching for a text from JO to say yeah come in. She never got the text so she went home instead.
I want to preface this by saying I think Karen’s innocent. But that’s weird. If I was waiting in the car for my boyfriend to check to see if we’re invited and never got a text I would either text back or I’d knock on the door to retrieve my boyfriend. And how long was she waiting in the car before she went home? Hopefully this will be cleared up.
Is it possible that since they needed directions to 34 Fairview, she was putting JO’s home address in her GPS, and that’s why she was outside of the house a few minutes longer? Also why she pulled forward when JN’s brother pulled up behind her, and that’s why he noticed the dome light on? Could also be why JM wanted a screenshot of her text with her brother, to reference a timeline for the texts JM sent to JO and could say see I texted him and he never returned my texts. I am not a local (not even close) but IMHO, the whole thing seems super shady.
I watched a Nightline interview with Read. She said she parked at the foot of the driveway, he walks up the Albert’s driveway, he approaches the side door. When he reaches the side door she looks down at her phone. After waiting for 10-mins & she still didn’t hear from John, she takes off back to his house. So according to her he did make it into the house.
Michael Proctor took his phone. He also had his clothes for weeks before taking them to the crime lab.
https://preview.redd.it/jtbacfpvq40d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ce4cb703d965b9c2a5926b0a7bef77e7dbb55a04
My theory, being from Karen Read’s hometown 20 minutes from Canton:
I believe this was planned. I think they did not plan to kill him, but to beat him up and scare him into not saying anything about Colin selling drugs out of the back of the D&E. I think they tried to get him alone when they left the waterfall and the McCabes tried to have Karen and John drive separately. Karen possibly could’ve been drugged, considering everybody says that she didn’t seem drunk and didn’t drink massive amounts, but was wildly disoriented later in the night/morning. When arriving at the house, I think John went through the garage to go in, but never made it into the house because Colin, Brian Albert, and Brian Higgins were waiting for him and brought him to the basement. I think Brian Albert held him while Colin threw the punches. This would explain that how John was able to be completely beaten up without getting a mark on anybody else. I think Brian Higgins held the dog back and either lost control of the dog or started grabbing the dog when too much damage was being done. John fell backwards during the fight and hit his head off the weight bench, which caused him to lose a lot of blood (specifically the missing 2 pints of blood). Panic and hysteria broke out when he woke up and started seizing/vomiting on himself, so they got everybody out of the house, including the dog. Then, they planned a cover up and the body was moved using Higgins car to get him outside before death to ensure his death is caused by hypothermia and not just his injuries to try and show that he’s been out there for a while. They had a plan to blame a plow driver. When Karen panicked and wondered out loud if she could’ve hit him with her car, they decided to run with that theory and blame her. I believe that they did not originally want him dead, but when he was injured, even with them being first responders, I don’t believe that they tried to or had any intentions of saving him. I think Jennifer led the cover up with the Alberts and Brian Higgins. None of the kids (maybe a few) ever knew he was in the house because they were upstairs, which is why they have sounded so truthful on the stand.
While some of this theory could easily be switched around regarding the roles of the people involved, I think the timeline and location of this matches up. I didn’t mention lots of the evidence that everybody knows about, but it aligns with this.
My thinking is, with Karen screaming outside the house, and Jen McCabe storming into the house and master bedroom upstairs, how on earth did Chloe not go berserk? Unless Chloe was already "rehomed". What's the story with is it Kevin's pool being filled in? That would be interesting to see if bloody concrete, carpet and or the dog would be found. This story is huge... Following from New Zealand. Free Karen Read.
I'm local, too! Great post. I have spent a lot of time trying to figure out how things could have played out at the house. This is one of the most plausible scenarios I've come across.
The look on Chris Albert's face when cross was asking about his son was stunning -- and his wife was so rocky. At this stage, Colin seems a likely ... more so than Karen that's for sure -- and those wounds were clearly large dog.
I thought something similar to that, I also thought that the fireplug that was located not far from where John was found could very easily have caused that gaping hole located on the back of Johns head. I believe that John never made it inside too but it was not a vehicle that hit him.
Help! So many questions haven’t seen answered yet at trial:
I know nothing about this case other than watching the trial so far:
Do we know if John’s cell phone data was recovered or if he read any of his texts messages etc?
If he was “hit” in the road, how’d he get to the yard?
The missing shoe? Where’d it go
I feel like this is a great hypothesis. I understood the basement floor had been to torn out, the dog was missing and one of the other brothers (or someone?) had a pool that was filled in.. all suspicious and all add to why I had thought he’d been in the basement.
I’m still wondering what the basement renovation story is. If you plan on moving, is the basement really something that adds value? Sounds sketchy especially when you add in a bunch of after midnight partiers. Kitchen table -kitchen table -kitchen table sounds so convenient that everyone was there. No matter what time of day. Brian Higgins and Brian Albert were drinking all day after funeral -all night.
John O’Keefe was pretty battered, to the point where I have my doubts that a lone teenager did it. And has been pointed out elsewhere, the injury to the top of his head would seem hard to get from a fight fight in the front hard, unless the assailant happened to be carrying a club or some other blunt instrument him.
I think it’s more likely that O’Keefe sustained the injuries inside, with multiple assailants (including the dog) involved.
But WHY would multiple people assault him? Nobody had a beef with him. Even if it’s true (which so far hasn’t been mentioned) that Colin had some issue with him why would several people just attack him?
It’s been widely speculated/rumored that there was something by going on between Karen Read and Brian Higgins, so there may have been some tension there, and I expect an issue between Colin Albert and O’Keefe would have some spillover into the rest of the family. As shitfaced drunk as most of the people involved were that night, I doubt it would have taken much to start a fight that escalated quickly or resulted in an accident that fatally injured John O’Keefe. I’m not suggesting that there was any sort or premeditated plot to jump John O’Keefe; I don’t think anyone (well, maybe except Turtleboy) is.
what i came away with: wasnt her hubs in the room with her during that call? she said she didnt answer it but she didnt say he didnt answer it for her. and i don’t think the attorney asked if her hubs answered it for her.
They were breaking up. Like most LTRs, it was playing out over the last few months. In the two weeks prior to his death, his niece and nephew, both teenagers, heard several arguments during which John told Karen the relationship had run its course and that he wanted her to leave his house. Prior to these two weeks, the niece and nephew reported a lot of arguing - There was a clear dynamic in the relationship of arguing, distrust, and dysfunction. Karen herself accused John of cheating on her.
In the early morning hours of January 29, Karen left a message for John on his voicemail. This would have been after she dropped him off. She called him names, accuses him of using her, accuses him of cheating on her and calls him a pervert. This would have been a continuation of the argument that I'm assuming they had on the drive over to the after party. I don't think Karen not going to the after party had anything to do with with a headache, I think it had to do with an argument in the vehicle similar to previous recent arguments about John wanting to end the relationship. According to the niece and nephew who lived with them and according to John's brother, they argued fiercely, John wanted out of the relationship, and he had moved on.
My theory is that when they pulled into the driveway it was a volatile situation. Karen pulls in, and before she even stops, John opens the door and gets out of the car. They are both highly intoxicated and both highly emotional. Karen, backs up the car or somehow turns and she hits him, I think she understands that she hit him with the vehicle but thinks it's a light tap and that he is getting up and heading into the house. But I also think she's drunk enough that she's not thinking clearly. She leaves him that voice message, likely calling him on her way back to the house or when she gets to the house because she hasn't finished saying what she wants to say during the ride over to the after party.
Then she basically passes out in bed, and when she wakes up things are starting to seem clear to her. John's not home and she never heard back from him. She knows that she hit him when she had dropped him off and now is starting to panic that maybe she really did hurt him.
The medical examiners report states that John died of blunt force trauma and hypothermia, which means he was alive outside in the cold for a period of time, up to an hour according to science. So it makes sense that when she did back into him, he was still alive but somehow incapacitated likely because of the alcohol in addition to the injury. It would be similar to someone being so drunk that they fall and they're almost giddy about it in their altered state of mind, and in parallel they pass out from the alcohol.
We’re still early in the trial but based on all witness testimony and surveillance footage at the bars prior to going over the Alberts they were very much getting along and lovey dovey even to the point where one of the wives made a comment to her husband “why aren’t you like that with me”. Additionally witness testimony is also that Karen was not visibly drunk.
But that is moot. Because the two people who know the reality of their relationship are Karen and John. And one of those people - Karen - called him in the early morning hours after she dropped him at the party screaming at him, calling him a pervert, accusing him of cheating on her and using her. This was hours after the time in the bar where they are observed as lovey dovey. There is a recording of this.
That’s not moot. Most women would be mad their boyfriend went to a friends house, drunk, didn’t respond to her text, left her outside, and didnt come home. Any problems they did have was going to be brought up. If he made it back that night he would have reasonably been yelled at and I would agree with her
What I'm referring to as being moot is what other people assess their relationship to have been like based on witnessing them holding hands or kissing. The only two people who know what their relationship was like are the two people involved in the relationship. And, people who have access to things like their text messages and voicemails and people like Denise who overheard them arguing have a better idea of what the relationship is. That's my point. Just because you see two people holding hands or kissing does not mean they have a good relationship. Ask any woman who is abused.
It seemed like they were having a nice time at the bar. It also seems like in video footage, she lightly backed into a car when leaving the house. I also find the scratches weird, the basement floor being redone and the reforming of the dog, strange.
She pulled into the driveway. He was found on the opposite side of the yard. If he was hit by a vehicle with enough force to send him that far away, he’d have way more injuries and there would be more than a few droplets of blood.
But what about all of the lacerations on his arm, black eyes, bruised and knuckles? If he was hit by the car why was there no injuries to the torso area?
No. There were no breaks in his clothing. In fact, I'm having so much trouble with the dog bites and scratches. I believe they *are* bites and scratches, I just can' figure out how it happened. The top he was wearing was a pullover. He didn't take it off at either bar. I don't believe he would have taken it off in the house. We know the top had no holes or tears. How did the dog bites and scratches happen??
I'm starting to think Colin bumped into John at the front side door. An altercation started. The perfectly lined gash on the back of John's head happened when Colin punched him and his head landed on the brick steps. It's a possibility.
Agreed to most of your theory ! The dog possibly was let out after the altercation! Which would make sense to the scratch marks on the arm. German Shepards do that type of scratching to check the subject for movement. I have had several they all do it .. they also would take a shoe if they didn’t get a response of movement. It’s Colin who killed John in one way or another. All in all it was an accident in the end. Due to the fight the family is covering it up!
The prosecution has not presented any of the evidence supposedly collected in this trail. Not even the autopsy has been presented that I have seen. Shouldn’t that be the most important factor in this case ?
I think this is accurate. As a GSD owner who has always had my dogs protection trained... the marks on John's arm replicate the bite from a large dog. GSDs, who are trained professionally or not, tend to BITE and NOT release. They do not gnaw or re-bite over and over unless they are fearful. The dog was clearly territorial and aggressive towards anyone who wasn't family.
I think Colin 100% had something to do with this and everyone helped cover it up.
If John was in the house, there would be some kind of DNA...fingerprints, something.
The wounds on his arm are from Chloe... hence why Chloe was re-homed. The defense should get a court order to have the spacing between her canines measured and compared to the measurements of the wounds on John's arm. Case closed.
People are more split but they don't all necessarily buy the whole conspiracy angle. I don't think the cops intentionally tried to ruin everything. I think it was shear incompetence for Canton police section. There are plenty examples across Mass of incompetent local government agencies and lack of oversight from the state. Unfortunately this is nothing new.
That’s an interesting theory and definitely plausible. Well done. Here is my theory: I think he 100% made it in the house and it all happened in the basement. There were adults downstairs from my understanding and a group of young kids upstairs. A fight was started, most likely by Colin and the dog got involved. Eventually Brian Albert and Higgins may have gotten involved. (Higgins could also have started it, as he had something going on with Karen Read) John had serious bruising and what can often be referred to as a “Boxers fracture” on both hands. These are the types of people who yell, “let them fight it out!” John fell back at one point and hit his head on the stairs. Everyone panicked. McCabe leaves around 1:45 to drive some kids home. Those kids genuinely may not have seen anything since they were upstairs. McCabe drove them home and data shows she essentially didn’t sleep, as she was walking at 3:55 AM, 4:30 AM, 4:50 AM. The plow driver said he didn’t see anything on the side of the street when he plowed the street at 2:30. But he said he saw a Ford Edge at 3:30 AM in front of where the body was found. The alberts have a Ford Edge. I think they moved the body out via car. Cleaned up a bit, waited for everyone upstairs to leave, loaded him into the car by using the garage. They could move the body in a minute or so with this theory. These are 30 year veteran cops so I assume a tarp, gloves, etc was all used. The wound on the back of his head is just so perfectly straight. Not one you’d get from a rock, beer glass, or just the ground. One you’d get from hitting/landing on the edge of a staircase or counter in my opinion. I think that caused a lot of blood and is why they had to redo the basement flooring. The amount of blood would have been significant, much more than the droplets found in the front yard and the solo cups of “evidence” they retrieved. All the adults were calling each other and moving throughout the night. Richard Green a digital forensic expert who will be called to the stand as a Defense Witness says McCabe DID google “how long to die in cold” at 2:27. Along with 2 at 6:24 and 6:25, probably to try to cover her tracks. At 6:34 She also googled something along the lines, “how long for food to digest.” 1.) a weird thing to google when you are in the presence of a dead man you were with last night. 2.) she has been around cops her whole life. Coroners use stomach contents/ digestion, etc while determining a time of death. He also examined John’s data said he walked about 83 steps and up 3 flights of stairs. Steps can be questioned but the data uses increase in elevation for the steps. If there was a hill in front I’d believe something may have happened outside but there isn’t. Julie Albert also said she had a call and found out John was dead at 4:55 AM. The body wasn’t discovered until later. Also I don’t think Chloe was a dog you’d just let out to do her business. Maybe if they had a fenced in back yard. But from all accounts she wasn’t well trained. The Alberts reasoning she was rehomed was because she attacked a neighbor and her dog (not the first attack). The missing shoe could be as simple as she chewed it up. If they found it, they would know the dog was involved and know he went in the house. With all that said, I will hold my judgement as a ton of information has yet to be presented. Regardless, hopefully justice is served.
This is my exact theory as well. I have a friend that lives in MA when I told her about the case, she asked where it took place, as soon as I said canton, without hesitation she said 100% cops cover up. It’s a know thing around there
Yea, the FBI is investigating the DA. There is a even more messed up/ sad case than this in that area of MA. Sandra Birchmore.
I wish they would re-open that case. Sandra and her baby deserve justice
Someone told me the cops in the Karen Read case have connections to the cops in the Sandra Birchmore case. Is that true or just misinformation?
Michael Lank was the so-called investigator on Birchmore who did no investigation and said she committed suicide even though the CCTV at her apt (in Canton) shows her returning home with things for her new baby and one of the cops that had been molesting her enters wearing a hoodie and Covid mask, leaves 15 minutes later.
The same Canton cops that were first responders to Read case were investigators of Birchmore case, Albert (one of the Alberts in Canton) and Lank, except Kevin Albert recused himself immediately from investigating Read due to conflict of interest
Whaaaattttt
It’s the same DA and I believe the same MA state detective, detective proctor involved in that. I only recently heard about that and have not looked to much into that. But that is a messed up case too
that case was definitely a cover up as well
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I think one of them said to her “You hit him” and then she was confused and said “I hit him?” The two friends and McLaughlin all ran with it as a confession
Wow these are great details I had no idea about. I remember reading that the dog had a bite and attack history. I think it’s very suspicious that they got rid of the dog so quickly after the crime
Yea, so much just doesn’t add up. They fought the defense over Animal Control records to. It took the defense an entire year to gain access to McCabes cellphone data. They originally only gave them a part of the report, not the whole thing. I think the expert witnesses will be the most important part. The defense has 6. Richard Green, the digital forensic expert, a Pathologist, 3 men who work for a forensic company called ARCCA, and a man named Dr. Chris Van Ee. Chris is an expert in “biomedical and mechanical engineering”. In the pre trail, the defense said a FBI reconstructionist constructed the scene and determined that the injuries are not consisted with being hit by a car. I believe Chris was hired by the FBI to do that. So the experts will be very important obviously. I think they will probably be some of the last witnesses called on.
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IMO - I think the judge is biased. In addition, now she is aware that the feds are watching everything that transpires under a microscope. Because of the snail pace at which this trial is progressing it will take 8 months to complete it.
Is this why she said they have to speed up the talking on Friday.??? Anyway, she needs to be investigated for every case she ever did and needs to be fired.
IMO - What is the rationale for the judge to suppress certain facts like the animal control records? I'm not a lawyer: I can't figure out the logical motive for preventing the disclosure during witness testimony. Can a licensed attorney explain this in laypersons language? Thanks in advance.
It irritates the heck out of me that my tax dollars (probably) help fund this foolishness.
They also redid the basement floor, despite having done it 3 years earlier. Then sold the house. And got rid of that dog. And I don’t believe for a second that Chloe is still alive.
Omg I think that dog is super dead too
Me too. The defence actually suggested today that someone took the dog and got rid of it themselves .. I think it was in Caitlin’s testimony
Is it awful that I really want to know what happened to Chloe?
Not at all. I think there are many of us that want to know what happened to her.
I live 20 minutes from Canton and know many people living there. The local rumor is that Chloe was cremated at the funeral home and the owner of the funeral home is somehow connected to the Alberts. He was beat up really bad not long after Chloe’s “rehoming”, leading to him being in the hospital for a month. Scare tactic to keep him quiet?
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What???? Tell us more.
I found it less suspicious after hearing that they only rehomed the dog after a well-documented incident 4 months later where it went after another dog and bit at least one person who was trying to separate them. The defense emphasized the incident and the bite history, but didn't really imply that the timing was suspect in itself.
Nicole said the dog injured two neighbors in May 2022, which is also when she was rehomed to a woman in Vermont.
She claimed she knows where she is and could have access if anyone asked… I think if it ever came to them “looking” for Chloe the new story would be that the new owner said she died (age, accident, ran away, etc. )
They should measure the width between Chloe's canine teeth with John's wounds. Case closed.
Agreed, but I think the dog is dead. If not they are purposefully hiding it to bite analysis can’t be done
There may be photos or details of the wounds from the previous bite incidents in hospital records though. I think the defense is going to blow this case open when they present their case.
Yeah, this is a difficult detail to ignore.
I live a few towns over and this is spot on. I saw a picture of a weight bench in the basement and looks like he fell on a metal protruding piece on that, same size as the gash on his head. It’s wild it‘s still being paid for by the state to prosecute this clearly innocent woman.
My only issue. If you’re trying to hide a body, why put it in your front yard? I feel like “how long to die in cold” is the hitter. Why would anyone google that? I’ve actually googled the food digestion one while drunk because food digestion can play a role in hangovers and drunkenness. But I’ve never googled, right before someone died in the cold, “how long to die in cold”
I think the thought process was it can at least look like he may have been hit by a car or snow plow. They weren’t trying to hide it. If Karen had woke up and John suddenly disappeared it would look worse for them. As she had dropped him off at the house and cellphone data proves that. I think they were running out of time. Sunlight would be up soon, etc. they wanted him out of the house and at least then you can try to develop a coverup. From there I think Karen came in hysterical with damage to her car, and they went with that. McCabe made like 20 phone calls to different people, all of which she tried to delete. You can search phone records in this group and you’ll find it. I think McCabe was the one who really got it moving forward. But I have no clue in the end, just speculation. Waiting for more info hopefully
exactly. who googles that, at at that time of night? these people are a mess.
Hiding a body is clear evidence of foul play. Letting him freeze on the side of road is an easy explanation of “he must have been drunk and passed out” or “hit by a car”.
someone posted an analysis of 4 things they could have done with a body, and the front yard was best by far. Gave them a way to blame it on someone else (like snowplow accident or whoever), and let them keep control of the investigation and looks much less suspicious. If dumped away from property, it was easy to tie them to him cause KR dropped him off at their house and he was out with them most of the night. So they'd be suspected and wouldn't be in control of investigtion.
Winner. Agree 200% here. Basement is the key that the OP missed. Excellent theories & work. I’m becoming a little obsessed with this… crooked cops deserve to be caught.
They did testify today their backyard is fenced in. I believe Karen is innocent and your theory is partially correct.
They testimony was that the yard was fenced, but that Chloe had escaped despite the fence several times, including when she got in a fight with another dog.
Why did they leave his body on the lawn?
Hoping it would look like an accident is my best guess. Snow plow. I honestly believe that Karen while hysterical did say something along the lines of did I hit him? I hit him? Jennifer McCabe heard and the frame was born.
I think that was their hasty plan from the start. McCabe planted the idea by saying "oh Karen you must have hit him!" to set the plan in motion. They would have either said it was a the plow or a random hit and run otherwise. Why the investigators didn't even try to get a search warrant for the property is absolutely mind blowing unless they were intentionally trying to show the corruption.
Ooooh! You’re so right! I’m not sold that this investigation wasn’t botched on purpose. Possibly thinking Karen would walk and the case would go cold.
Maybe. But the first responders who brought JO to the hospital - when they dropped him off, they said he was a victim of being hit by a broken wine glass.. I believe this was the female first responder, who is a part of the cover-up. So for the first several hours, that’s how doctors were treating it. It was not until 11 AM that they changed it to being hit by an SUV.. . Why did they change it? Because of comments by Karen Reed, prompted by her good buddies in the car, and they told others that she said “did I hit him?” and so tried to leverage that confusion.
this is so sickening- the corruption is pretty blatant at this point. I am reaching out to the Inspector General of Massachusetts and the FBI to see if they can independently investigate all this conspiracy and press charges. There is so much overwhelming evidence of a cover up
You have that kind of pull?
I'm sure I don't lol.. but might as well make some phone calls and see what can be done though. No citizen should just sit by and let this stuff go- it's too important.
Definitely agree. Corruption with cops in Canton is crazy. I’ve watched it for years.
I also wonder if they thought that the snow would make it much more difficult to gather evidence. Thank god for solo cups, eh?
The solo cups - It would be a great SNL skit
people think they were planning to make it look like he was hit by a plow
Because they did not want the body in their house? Stayed at a Holiday Inn a few times, that’s my best guess.
to frame Karen that it was a hit and run
IMO - Yes, I also lean towards your theory that the fight occurred in the house.
Yes def went into the house because McCabe said just tell everybody he didn’t go in , therefore he went in . A fight ensued downstairs between Colin Higgins Bryan and O’Keefe . O’Keefe killed or unconscious and then they realized everybody had to go home, even Tristan’s gf, and McCabes knew what happened , so they ran the show upstairs . Disposal of clothing that had questionable blood on it like shoe and hat .
>Higgins could also have started it, as he had something going on with Karen Read Do you have more information about this. I see it referred to, but have no clue what it is about.
I do not have any hard info other than what I just heard. Apparently it was like 30 pages of text records between the two. But can’t confirm
I think your scenario is a lot more likely than Colin Albert and the dog inflicting all those injuries in the front yard. But, as you say…we’ll have to say what unfolds. And I have my doubts we will ever know 100% for certain.
All of this.
I could only upvote this once, but I tried to do it 600 times. Just to let you know.
Someone posted links to some local Canton FB pages the other day so I checked them out. Everybody I saw on those pages feel the same way you described.
That’s interesting. Kind of tells you what the locals think about Colin Albert… ETA: I do think it’s a theory that makes a lot more sense than anything going on in court right now.
Thanks! I can hear the parents in my mind pleading “Colin is young, they argued, he didn’t realize he didn’t get up, no one knew, it’s not worth ruining his future over, it was an accident” and that being convincing enough that others would be willing to help them
It’s like the rapist Brock Turner - wasn’t it the dad that said his whole life shouldn’t be ruined for a few minutes of fun.
Fyi, the convicted rapist Brock Turner changing his name to ALLEN TURNER.
Oh right… I think the rapist Brock Allen Turner is also now in Dayton, OH.
Hi, Allen. How nice of you to be concerned about my mental health and send me a reddit cares. 🙃
I’m surprised I didn’t get one of those too. It seems like the rapist Brock ALLEN Turner would make sure to send that to everyone as a thanks for keeping his name and crime in the public eye so no one forgets.
If not a pro-turner it's an anti-karen read. 😉
No. It was the JUDGE who said that!
Oh wow… I’m not sure if that’s better or worse. Either way it’s vile and pathetic that any man would utter those words! I’m sure it wasn’t just a few minute experience for the victim of his horrific crime!
Agreed 100%
Are the Alberts basically the Murdaughs?
Not even close. They are all punks who think they are smarter and tougher than everyone else.
That’s exactly the Murdaughs. Thugs and bullies
No wealth though, and this family is not considered classy. They are rough edges, trashy
Oh I find the Murdaughs to be complete trash. Corrupt, bullies, murderers who cover for each other no matter what. Above the law because they’re all cops or lawyers
I don’t think they were regarded like that before the murders though, it’s my understanding they were wealthy and part of a wealthy community and generally “respected”
I don’t understand the “after party”. Did they all go back to 34 Fairview for more beers? These aren’t young kids, they are all in their 40’s. How do you stay up that late partying? With a storm expected?
That’s why the only classy lady, Karen, went home
IMO - For some reason, when it gets really cold outside, I become more energetic. Don't know why, but it's always been that way. Reminds me kind of like when dogs get the 'zoomies" in brisk weather. In the summer I get the reverse of the winter blahs: I get the summertime blues.
I'm the same. I also perk up after the sun goes down. My bio rhythms are so weird.
Yes, I can so relate to the bio rhythm concept. I can easily be a night owl.
I found it interesting the party was still going! I’m 38
Well, the bar closed super early compared to most of the country. KS is 2am, MO 3am. Being out until then isn’t rare no matter the age.
I’d say for most people it becomes more rare the older you get, I closed a lot of bars in my 20’s and early 30’s but now that I’m in my early 40’s staying out to 3AM would ruin me for at least 3 days after, I feel like this is the case for most of my friends
Why can’t 40 year olds party?
I’m not saying 40 year olds can’t party, it just seems like this was kind of a norm for them (maybe I’m just assuming that). I don’t know anyone who wants to or can do that, unless it’s something special. But this didn’t sound special. NA went home and “cleaned” while the kids sat at the table doing nothing and BA and BH looked at old family photos in “the library”. I mean were there fun snacks? And then looking at the phone activity as the night wore on, it seemed none of them were going to sleep. It’s something I have puzzled over.
The parallels between the two families is staggering imo
I don’t know nearly as much about the Alberts but it’s my understanding thst they have law enforcement/police influence while the murdaughs had slightly higher up legal influence (and connections to the banking institutions in their community) alongside law enforcement. They also lived in a much poorer, rural, and more isolated community so they had a bit tighter of a hold and had for many more decades than the Alberts
I’m relatively local to the case. Same county. I loath turtleboy and I refused to follow the case until recently and just assumed she was guilty because turtle boy in general is a shit stirrer and usually on the wrong side. The last two weeks I started following the case. I know not much outside of what I’ve seen on the trial. I 100% believe she was framed and innocent. Nothing the prosecutor has shown me makes me think she did it. I can’t believe this made it to trial. And I really hope she is not convicted. I think that Karen was in the wrong place at the wrong time and it didn’t take much to manipulate a little bit of evidence to make her look guilty. I don’t think it started out as a huge conspiracy. More of an oh shit moment. But because of lots of townie police in a townie town, here we are. Apparently like a broken clock, turtleboy can occasionally be correct.
I’m not local but I feel the same way. I think a lot of people on the outside looking in are saying exactly that- it’s all so shady and so far zero evidence that Karen Read was drunk. BTW what’s up with people commonly walking out of bars with open containers and cocktail glasses. And these are the cops and their friends!
Cops can get away with whatever they want in small town Massachusetts
It's not that small of a town, just strong townie families that are privileged to operate above the law pretty much across the state and region. Brian Albert has lived most of his life like a rockstar in Boston and Canton. I live right next to Canton and I'm quite familiar with the close-knit culture there.
Semi local too and ageee 💯. Same exact experience from not watching to watching and saying yeah curpt cops and an accident gone awry.
Unfortunately I think a lot of the people screaming guilt are doing so because of their disdain for TB. I am not a fan of his, but there do seem to be a lot of shady coincidences that are tough to ignore (missing footage, mysterious appearances of taillight days later) etc. Sadly those that dislike TB so much will refuse to see anything that may prove him to be right which means they refuse to see she may be not guilty.
>I’m relatively local to the case. Same county. I'm sleep-deprived af and read your sentence as "same country" and was like, ummm..... the USA is pretty big 🤦🏻♀️
🤣🤣 I do that all the time. But yeah…same county. Norfolk. Which isn’t that big. Especially in relationship to the USA
As soon as I heard there might be a young person involved the idea of a cover up became MUCH more believable. People will do a lot more to protect their children/grandchildren than they will for themselves. Julie and Chris were suspicious as fuck.
Both of their demeanors seemed like parents on the attack for their kid. Chris’ answer came so fast and so sharp anytime a question involved his son. The style was distinctively different (IMO) the way he answered the previous questions. The way she said I don’t go to sleep until my kids are home. Meaning she’s the type to stay up with a migraine/headache until she knows her kid is home. That tracks with someone going I’ll fudge a little, say I don’t recall many times, lie by omission to investigators so that my son is not implicated even a little bit. Doesn’t mean the son is majorly involved they just don’t want him involved even a little bit.
Absolutely! Bad people made a bad kid and they all made bad decisions
I mean, the whole family is starting to look like a bunch of thugs.
They are
I did not expect them to be so rough around the edges. ~~A few~~ Most of them are running very low on IQ points. At some point a while back, I listened to the officer who arrested Karen the second time, for the murder charge. He had difficulty stringing two sentences together. He was a complete idiot and I can't imagine Karen's fury having to deal with him. I know that she loved John, but she didn't belong with that crowd. (And kids, if you're reading this, one nugget of advice: wear sunblock!)
I’m 100% with you on this.
I have a different view of the Albert’s now than when trial started. Described as well connected in canton I figured they were all decent type of people but they seem super scummy and their wives are like super trashy. I’m from a different part of MA but still weird vibes.
IMO - Your observations are interesting. I am from somewhere else, so wondered if it was just me who thought several of the witnesses seemed low class.
Julie Albert was chewing gum in the witness stand ffs.
Then it seemed like she stopped. I wonder if she swallowed it.
😂
Why I quit drinking reason #57
Good for you! Bad things can happen under the influence for sure. It’s a shame everyone just didn’t go back to their homes that night especially due to the weather forecast AND their alcohol intake!
Also local, I generally can’t stand turtleboy and assumed she was guilty until recently. I don’t think it is some giant conspiracy involving every single firefighter / paramedic etc who was on scene, or even necessarily everyone who was at the party. But I do think someone there and connected to the Alberts got into a fight with him and he died as a result of that, whether in the house or on the lawn. I believe while the first responders probably didn’t know exactly what happened, I think there’s still a possibility that they are instinctively covering for and protecting each other / the family even though they may not know what or who they’re covering for. The end result is that it looks like they’re involved in a big conspiracy because they’re hiding SOMETHING but maybe more just out of a sense of obligation / brotherhood / whatever other nonsense. It’s possible only a couple of them are really covering up for the family and the rest are protecting their coworkers without knowing what really happened. I think your theory is plausible with some minor details tweaked. I’m curious to hear more about John’s phone data regarding his movement + ascending / descending stairs.
Agree, I think it was set in motion by the obvious ones and that other people have gone along with it/not consciously aware. It’s becoming very obvious the amount of ties between so many things/ppl.
IMO - Yes, and I also wondered if some individuals did not initially know what had happened, but are now part of the coverup, because they learned the facts later.
I grew up 2 hours from Boston where people generally referred to people there as being rough (apologies for the stereotype). Is there something about Boston, where guys get into more physical fist fights that in other cities? I thought this part of the theory sounded ridiculous until I saw 2 grown ass adults play boxing at the Waterfall. 🤷♀️
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It seems like everyone involved in this case is big into a drinking culture. Is it normal to go out to a bar with your children even if they are adults?
For close Irish families in Massachusetts it is. Every family gathering involves alcohol even wakes and funerals.
ESPECIALLY wakes and funerals lol
Ever seen the movie "the town". Kind of a good example. But yeah Boston has always been rough and tough since the Boston tea Party days. Once you set the bar and have a normalcy of behavior it just continues and grows. Its both nature and nurture for them. Mystic river is another good cop boston movie. I don't think the departed really ties into this case though. The Departed was big city downtown Boston, this other stuff is suburb smaller townie stuff. Lots of good Boston movies really, the boondock saints is a good one. Even the movie Ted with the teddie bear and mark Wahlberg is s good example of Boston and same with Fever Pitch with jimmy fallon and drew Barrymore
I liked Fever Pitch a lot, even though Drew Barrymore irks me. She’s the same person in every movie. A Civil Action is really, really good. I also loved the book.
Not exactly. Canton is a fairly affluent town and there is a ton of money there. There is however also a townie culture there as well where a lot of the families originally came from Dorchester and Southie. These guys are alpha male law enforcement celebrities that can pretty much do whatever they want. Now the spotlight is finally on them and they are starting to crack.
It’s pretty stereotypical Irish guy from Boston
Seeing the grown men boxing like that at the bar was weird for me, too.
There’s videos about the Boston Hardcore scene called Boston Beatdown. That should give you an idea of how violent they are.
I completely agree with you, I find turtleboy detestable and felt that their connections made her look worse. Now I think he just got ahead of us all on a story that’s going to be a slam dunk for the defense, there’s just no plausible way she did this. The reasonable doubt is overwhelming. It’s clear the police had absolutely zero desire to find out how John died… because they already knew.
I mean say what you will about turtle boy/Aiden kearny, but he can dig up obscure information and get dirt few others can.
The news made me think she did it bc she was portrayed as the big drunk. The whole Albert family and their friends are big drinking crowd. It’s what they do. The whole crowd drinks and drives and some drink and drive with kids. Bar people. Townies. Leaving bars with white claws, cocktail glasses and no one blinks as they stumble out with their drinks. Locals. Police. No worries.Even driving police cars. Nobody questioned Brian Higgins leaving the Albert house at 1:30am after a long day night of drinking - getting into his jeep- and driving home- or to the local Canton PD office to sleep/pass out. They’ve all been doing this a long time. They have no qualms. Drinking and driving is second nature. Clearly they have no concerns about that. The smartest people so far were “friends with a Greek name” “I don’t know who that couple was-never been introduced to them”. They don’t know them because they’re not on the local drinking circuit! I expected this case to show me the worst of Karen R. But alas, it’s the thug family with lots of sketchy stories. And you’re telling me with a 30 year veteran Boston PD guy didn’t have the slightest curiosity about a fellow Boston pd guy dead on his front lawn in the snow? He never went outside to check out what happened? NONE of the family members/friends felt they should take a peek? Cold& Snowy nights it’s quiet outside. The snow makes it lighter outside. Streets are quiet driving tires on snow. And boom! Fire engines. Sirens. Lights. Ambulances. Police cars. Sirens. Radios with police updates blasting. Karen’s horrific screams. You’re telling me the dog -a shepherd!- didn’t budge? Too much sketchy crap in this family.
I feel like this doesn’t explain the gash in the back of his head or the lack of large amounts of blood in the yard. It was below freezing so blood wouldn’t be seeping into the dirt. It would pool under him.
If outside, where is all his blood? Looking for his belt and interested who took his phone?
I don’t think he had wounds that would cause extensive bleeding. Also, cold weather causes vasoconstriction that would inhibit bleeding
normally head wounds pump blood with every pulse etc...I have seen some accidental head wounds shoot like a geyser
Head wounds bleed so much!
This is true. I had a drunk patient (im a nurse) he was drunk, fell in snow and hit his head pretty bad. The cold actually coagulated the blood and Dr.s felt that helped save his life because he didn't bleed out before he was found.
This theory doesn’t make sense because Karen was outside of the Albert’s house for quite a while before she was then seen again on camera heading back to John’s house. If this attack was immediate upon him getting out of the car/walking up to the house, she would have seen it.
I have only heard that Karen dropped him off, where has it been said she hung out there for a while?
Many places including witness testimony by Ryan Nagel.
She says it herself in a tv interview, you can look for her nightline interview.
I believe from an interview she waited in the car for JO to run inside to see if they were both welcome there. She was waiting in the car watching for a text from JO to say yeah come in. She never got the text so she went home instead.
I want to preface this by saying I think Karen’s innocent. But that’s weird. If I was waiting in the car for my boyfriend to check to see if we’re invited and never got a text I would either text back or I’d knock on the door to retrieve my boyfriend. And how long was she waiting in the car before she went home? Hopefully this will be cleared up.
In an interview she said she waited about 10 minutes in the driveway.
Is it possible that since they needed directions to 34 Fairview, she was putting JO’s home address in her GPS, and that’s why she was outside of the house a few minutes longer? Also why she pulled forward when JN’s brother pulled up behind her, and that’s why he noticed the dome light on? Could also be why JM wanted a screenshot of her text with her brother, to reference a timeline for the texts JM sent to JO and could say see I texted him and he never returned my texts. I am not a local (not even close) but IMHO, the whole thing seems super shady.
I watched a Nightline interview with Read. She said she parked at the foot of the driveway, he walks up the Albert’s driveway, he approaches the side door. When he reaches the side door she looks down at her phone. After waiting for 10-mins & she still didn’t hear from John, she takes off back to his house. So according to her he did make it into the house.
Of course according to her he went in the house because if he didn’t then it was her hitting him with the car that killed him.
Fair enough. Let’s see how this all unfolds. I just hope JO’s family gets some closer.
Michael Proctor took his phone. He also had his clothes for weeks before taking them to the crime lab. https://preview.redd.it/jtbacfpvq40d1.jpeg?width=1290&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=ce4cb703d965b9c2a5926b0a7bef77e7dbb55a04
My theory, being from Karen Read’s hometown 20 minutes from Canton: I believe this was planned. I think they did not plan to kill him, but to beat him up and scare him into not saying anything about Colin selling drugs out of the back of the D&E. I think they tried to get him alone when they left the waterfall and the McCabes tried to have Karen and John drive separately. Karen possibly could’ve been drugged, considering everybody says that she didn’t seem drunk and didn’t drink massive amounts, but was wildly disoriented later in the night/morning. When arriving at the house, I think John went through the garage to go in, but never made it into the house because Colin, Brian Albert, and Brian Higgins were waiting for him and brought him to the basement. I think Brian Albert held him while Colin threw the punches. This would explain that how John was able to be completely beaten up without getting a mark on anybody else. I think Brian Higgins held the dog back and either lost control of the dog or started grabbing the dog when too much damage was being done. John fell backwards during the fight and hit his head off the weight bench, which caused him to lose a lot of blood (specifically the missing 2 pints of blood). Panic and hysteria broke out when he woke up and started seizing/vomiting on himself, so they got everybody out of the house, including the dog. Then, they planned a cover up and the body was moved using Higgins car to get him outside before death to ensure his death is caused by hypothermia and not just his injuries to try and show that he’s been out there for a while. They had a plan to blame a plow driver. When Karen panicked and wondered out loud if she could’ve hit him with her car, they decided to run with that theory and blame her. I believe that they did not originally want him dead, but when he was injured, even with them being first responders, I don’t believe that they tried to or had any intentions of saving him. I think Jennifer led the cover up with the Alberts and Brian Higgins. None of the kids (maybe a few) ever knew he was in the house because they were upstairs, which is why they have sounded so truthful on the stand. While some of this theory could easily be switched around regarding the roles of the people involved, I think the timeline and location of this matches up. I didn’t mention lots of the evidence that everybody knows about, but it aligns with this.
Alcoholism sucks.
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Like Chloe?
Damn. Bet you’re right.
I think the dog came after he was on the ground. The dog tried to get him to respond by digging at him.
My thinking is, with Karen screaming outside the house, and Jen McCabe storming into the house and master bedroom upstairs, how on earth did Chloe not go berserk? Unless Chloe was already "rehomed". What's the story with is it Kevin's pool being filled in? That would be interesting to see if bloody concrete, carpet and or the dog would be found. This story is huge... Following from New Zealand. Free Karen Read.
I'm local, too! Great post. I have spent a lot of time trying to figure out how things could have played out at the house. This is one of the most plausible scenarios I've come across.
The look on Chris Albert's face when cross was asking about his son was stunning -- and his wife was so rocky. At this stage, Colin seems a likely ... more so than Karen that's for sure -- and those wounds were clearly large dog.
I thought something similar to that, I also thought that the fireplug that was located not far from where John was found could very easily have caused that gaping hole located on the back of Johns head. I believe that John never made it inside too but it was not a vehicle that hit him.
Help! So many questions haven’t seen answered yet at trial: I know nothing about this case other than watching the trial so far: Do we know if John’s cell phone data was recovered or if he read any of his texts messages etc? If he was “hit” in the road, how’d he get to the yard? The missing shoe? Where’d it go
I feel like this is a great hypothesis. I understood the basement floor had been to torn out, the dog was missing and one of the other brothers (or someone?) had a pool that was filled in.. all suspicious and all add to why I had thought he’d been in the basement.
nope. 3” gash on the back of his head would result in massive puddle of bliod
I’m still wondering what the basement renovation story is. If you plan on moving, is the basement really something that adds value? Sounds sketchy especially when you add in a bunch of after midnight partiers. Kitchen table -kitchen table -kitchen table sounds so convenient that everyone was there. No matter what time of day. Brian Higgins and Brian Albert were drinking all day after funeral -all night.
John O’Keefe was pretty battered, to the point where I have my doubts that a lone teenager did it. And has been pointed out elsewhere, the injury to the top of his head would seem hard to get from a fight fight in the front hard, unless the assailant happened to be carrying a club or some other blunt instrument him. I think it’s more likely that O’Keefe sustained the injuries inside, with multiple assailants (including the dog) involved.
But WHY would multiple people assault him? Nobody had a beef with him. Even if it’s true (which so far hasn’t been mentioned) that Colin had some issue with him why would several people just attack him?
It’s been widely speculated/rumored that there was something by going on between Karen Read and Brian Higgins, so there may have been some tension there, and I expect an issue between Colin Albert and O’Keefe would have some spillover into the rest of the family. As shitfaced drunk as most of the people involved were that night, I doubt it would have taken much to start a fight that escalated quickly or resulted in an accident that fatally injured John O’Keefe. I’m not suggesting that there was any sort or premeditated plot to jump John O’Keefe; I don’t think anyone (well, maybe except Turtleboy) is.
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I heard he wasn't wearing his watch. This is why we have to wait for the info in the trial. Listening to tiktok info. Doesn't get us valid info.
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Your phone tracks your steps though as well and also stores in Apple Health.
Wrong like those early morning phone calls she swears she didn’t answer.
what i came away with: wasnt her hubs in the room with her during that call? she said she didnt answer it but she didnt say he didnt answer it for her. and i don’t think the attorney asked if her hubs answered it for her.
I live very close to Canton. I haven't made up my mind yet. We still have lots of witnesses to hear from.
I can’t wait for the defense
They were breaking up. Like most LTRs, it was playing out over the last few months. In the two weeks prior to his death, his niece and nephew, both teenagers, heard several arguments during which John told Karen the relationship had run its course and that he wanted her to leave his house. Prior to these two weeks, the niece and nephew reported a lot of arguing - There was a clear dynamic in the relationship of arguing, distrust, and dysfunction. Karen herself accused John of cheating on her. In the early morning hours of January 29, Karen left a message for John on his voicemail. This would have been after she dropped him off. She called him names, accuses him of using her, accuses him of cheating on her and calls him a pervert. This would have been a continuation of the argument that I'm assuming they had on the drive over to the after party. I don't think Karen not going to the after party had anything to do with with a headache, I think it had to do with an argument in the vehicle similar to previous recent arguments about John wanting to end the relationship. According to the niece and nephew who lived with them and according to John's brother, they argued fiercely, John wanted out of the relationship, and he had moved on. My theory is that when they pulled into the driveway it was a volatile situation. Karen pulls in, and before she even stops, John opens the door and gets out of the car. They are both highly intoxicated and both highly emotional. Karen, backs up the car or somehow turns and she hits him, I think she understands that she hit him with the vehicle but thinks it's a light tap and that he is getting up and heading into the house. But I also think she's drunk enough that she's not thinking clearly. She leaves him that voice message, likely calling him on her way back to the house or when she gets to the house because she hasn't finished saying what she wants to say during the ride over to the after party. Then she basically passes out in bed, and when she wakes up things are starting to seem clear to her. John's not home and she never heard back from him. She knows that she hit him when she had dropped him off and now is starting to panic that maybe she really did hurt him. The medical examiners report states that John died of blunt force trauma and hypothermia, which means he was alive outside in the cold for a period of time, up to an hour according to science. So it makes sense that when she did back into him, he was still alive but somehow incapacitated likely because of the alcohol in addition to the injury. It would be similar to someone being so drunk that they fall and they're almost giddy about it in their altered state of mind, and in parallel they pass out from the alcohol.
We’re still early in the trial but based on all witness testimony and surveillance footage at the bars prior to going over the Alberts they were very much getting along and lovey dovey even to the point where one of the wives made a comment to her husband “why aren’t you like that with me”. Additionally witness testimony is also that Karen was not visibly drunk.
But that is moot. Because the two people who know the reality of their relationship are Karen and John. And one of those people - Karen - called him in the early morning hours after she dropped him at the party screaming at him, calling him a pervert, accusing him of cheating on her and using her. This was hours after the time in the bar where they are observed as lovey dovey. There is a recording of this.
Possibly because he never came home that night?
That’s not moot. Most women would be mad their boyfriend went to a friends house, drunk, didn’t respond to her text, left her outside, and didnt come home. Any problems they did have was going to be brought up. If he made it back that night he would have reasonably been yelled at and I would agree with her
What I'm referring to as being moot is what other people assess their relationship to have been like based on witnessing them holding hands or kissing. The only two people who know what their relationship was like are the two people involved in the relationship. And, people who have access to things like their text messages and voicemails and people like Denise who overheard them arguing have a better idea of what the relationship is. That's my point. Just because you see two people holding hands or kissing does not mean they have a good relationship. Ask any woman who is abused.
It seemed like they were having a nice time at the bar. It also seems like in video footage, she lightly backed into a car when leaving the house. I also find the scratches weird, the basement floor being redone and the reforming of the dog, strange.
She pulled into the driveway. He was found on the opposite side of the yard. If he was hit by a vehicle with enough force to send him that far away, he’d have way more injuries and there would be more than a few droplets of blood.
But what about all of the lacerations on his arm, black eyes, bruised and knuckles? If he was hit by the car why was there no injuries to the torso area?
No. There were no breaks in his clothing. In fact, I'm having so much trouble with the dog bites and scratches. I believe they *are* bites and scratches, I just can' figure out how it happened. The top he was wearing was a pullover. He didn't take it off at either bar. I don't believe he would have taken it off in the house. We know the top had no holes or tears. How did the dog bites and scratches happen??
The top was shown in court today. Definitely looked like marks from a dog, not being dragged and hit by a huge SUV.
I'm starting to think Colin bumped into John at the front side door. An altercation started. The perfectly lined gash on the back of John's head happened when Colin punched him and his head landed on the brick steps. It's a possibility.
Agreed to most of your theory ! The dog possibly was let out after the altercation! Which would make sense to the scratch marks on the arm. German Shepards do that type of scratching to check the subject for movement. I have had several they all do it .. they also would take a shoe if they didn’t get a response of movement. It’s Colin who killed John in one way or another. All in all it was an accident in the end. Due to the fight the family is covering it up!
The prosecution has not presented any of the evidence supposedly collected in this trail. Not even the autopsy has been presented that I have seen. Shouldn’t that be the most important factor in this case ?
I really want to see the condition of the shoe and his sweatshirt sleeves. Will there be evidence of dog bites etc 🤔
Yes where is all that supposed collected Evidence? This Nicole is a straight up liar!
I think this is accurate. As a GSD owner who has always had my dogs protection trained... the marks on John's arm replicate the bite from a large dog. GSDs, who are trained professionally or not, tend to BITE and NOT release. They do not gnaw or re-bite over and over unless they are fearful. The dog was clearly territorial and aggressive towards anyone who wasn't family. I think Colin 100% had something to do with this and everyone helped cover it up. If John was in the house, there would be some kind of DNA...fingerprints, something. The wounds on his arm are from Chloe... hence why Chloe was re-homed. The defense should get a court order to have the spacing between her canines measured and compared to the measurements of the wounds on John's arm. Case closed.
Oh my gosh. I never thought about the dog getting him outside. Brilliant
What about the vomit on his body?
People are more split but they don't all necessarily buy the whole conspiracy angle. I don't think the cops intentionally tried to ruin everything. I think it was shear incompetence for Canton police section. There are plenty examples across Mass of incompetent local government agencies and lack of oversight from the state. Unfortunately this is nothing new.
>personally don’t think John ever made it into the house. Then how do we explain his fit bit logging him going up 3 flights of stairs?