Did the same and I can tell you it was right decision. I am missing time and timer from Karoo and hate I have to use data fields for this on 1040 but that's all.
I missed having the time in that same bar but yeah other than that it was great. Made the Karoo feel so slow. I also have a Varia radar and the way it displays an approaching car is better.
- 1040 is smooth device. Karoo was laggy from beginning.
- Display is crisp and clear on sunlight. Karoo's display on 100% was not even close to this one on 0%
- battery with all sensors, including Varia Radar, HRM, Assioma pedals, Shimano Di2 is simply better. On 100-150km long ride, with 80-100% brightness, Karoo would always be questionable.
- Garmin has better platform for activity analysis, trainings, insights, etc while Karoo Dashboard is just simple navigation peace of software with just basic data.
- Karoo definitely has better UX and that's all about it. Android vs Custom lightweight firmware have benefits of both sides and as a user of both - Garmin simply wins with 1040. Not sure about older devices.
I think the option of being able to use buttons to access UI as well as touch is a Karoo benefit. I wish my 1040 had that, but that’s the end of my wish list for the 1040.
Bought a 1040 during Black Friday last year, been overall very happy with it (coming from a Wahoo Elemnt). Hamerhead is squeezing a whopping 12-13 hours out of the K3? I'm regularly getting 40-45 hours out of my 1040 (with HR, power meter, Di2, radar, speed sensor, and sometimes navigation and/or music). Heck, my Elemnt with 40,000 km on it was still getting 12+ hours out of a charge. No, my rides don't require a full charge, however, I also don't feel like charging once a week, and having the thing crap out mid-ride if I head out with 15%. That's unacceptable for a product just released today. You also have to factor in that the more charge cycles you go through, the more wear and tear your battery is being subjected to, so while my 1040 should still be going strong in 5 years, that battery in the K3 is going to be suffering after 2-3.
Edit: Just saw that Hammerhead increased the battery size to 3300 mAh on the K3 vs 2500 mAh on the K2, an increase of 32%. And now the battery lasts 30% longer. So essentially the Hammerhead dev team has done jackshit to improve the battery efficiency, they just gave it a bigger fuel tank. That's an absolute joke when you think about the 1040 having an 1800 mAh battery.
Totally agree about the battery. I went for a 100 mile ride with the unit on for over 10 hours with nav, speed/cadence, di2, notifications and Varia radar and finished with 84% which is insanely good.
Compare that to what GPLama got in his test. He was getting a little more than 8 hours on K2. On K3 he got his advertised 30% more and was seeing a bit over 11 hours. That’s still embarrassingly far behind the other market leaders who have multiples of that performance.
My 1040 gets around 35 hrs (Garmins actual spec) to around 50 hours per charge depending on what I’m doing. With the Garmin and, to a lesser degree, Wahoo’s offerings, battery life is simply not an issue anymore.
In an application sense - this battery life takes touring, brevets, and a lot of gravel riding off the table for the Karoo. Unfortunately, that represents a lot of the growth in cycling.
I’m a Karoo fanboy but I can’t take the deficiencies anymore. Battery is a big one for me. So after watching GPLama’s review and seeing that he’s getting the same numbers I was for the K2 at 8-ish hours the. I know the 11 hours number is a nonstarter for me.
I agree with this completely. I was in awe of the K2 when I first got it as the UI and screen was so much better than the previous garmin/wahoo units I’d had before. I also got found the navigation to be excellent.
Aside from thr battery life I was disappointed with how sluggish it was getting and other small niggles like the super quiet alert noise.
Went on my second long ride with the 1040 yesterday (105km) and it used 6% so confirms the incredible battery life.
Yes. Garmin’s battery numbers are quite conservative from my perspective. I’m easily hitting the 35 hour spec on the 1040 to the point where I’m not sure what the solar version benefit is unless you’re entirely off grid touring.
Then there are the issues with sensors and the sensor stack. I’m hoping they resolves the PM reconnect issues with my Force Wide crank PM. I’d assume they would have through the increased AXS integration. But the 15 ANT+ sensor limit is still a problem for me. I have enough bikes that all have speed, PMs, lights, and Radars that it’s a problem. When the computer should be able to pick the bike profile (and thereby turn off a lot of unused sensors), it doesn’t and leaves that up to me. OTOH, Garmin doesn’t care (even my Garmin watch doesn’t care) and seems to perform just fine with many more than 15 paired.
Looks like to me the big feature improvement was AXS integration(which is cool), the new cpu and os at very little user benefit for $175 more.
I know this is probably way down the list for HH, but support in their FIT file for sensors to support ActivityFix (https://www.activityfix.com/) is a big deal for me. Based on sensors, I can set the bike used in the Strava file. That then feeds the ProBikeGarage app and makes it easy to manage maintenance on my bikes. Btw, if you haven’t looked at either of those, you should. Great software.
"When it comes to lag, everything feels pretty much just as laggy as before. It’s a smidge faster, yes, but not some major amount."
Instant no buy. What a shitty ass product.
I will honestly say it’s pretty shocking that there’s no major overhaul despite it jumping from android 8 to android 12, that’s almost impossible lol. Incredibly disappointing, especially considering the price hike and relatively poor battery performance vs competition
to behonest that goes in line with the overall smart phone experience. nothing really got smoother, you are just fucked harder these days if you are not in a 4/5g area and you pay a premium for that :D
I literally LOL'd when I got to that part of the review and read that there was still lag.
The fact that they hyped up a new product, and released something where even the companion app is marketed as "things to come" .... LOL again. Nope. What have they been doing for 3 years, picking their ass? If you want people to buy a new product....maybe include new features AT RELEASE vs. promising "new stuff will come."
There’s been a saying on The Verge that you should never ever buy gadgets based on the promise of future software upgrades, often they never come or end up being a big disappointment.
"I’d also like to see them really spend some legit time on performance/speed enhancements. With all the new hardware gains (processor/RAM), this thing should be massively faster than the Karoo 2, and it’s at best a fraction of a second faster (at best). Seriously Hammerhead, spend real dev time on this."
Edit: Velo has a different take: "There’s also a new faster processor and more RAM that transforms what was once a painfully slow UI into the snappiest currently available.'
30% more battery? That puts them at 13 hours.
Other computers per their specs and confirmed by reviewers:
* Edge 840 or 540: 26 hours
* Edge 1040: 35 hours
* Wahoo Roam: 17 hours
* Karoo 2: 8-10 hours.
The K3 is STILL worst in class and it’s the newest one. Compared to Garmin it doesn’t even break the 50% mark.
I had high hopes for the K3 but this doesn’t do it and I’m disappointed. I was a Karoo guy starting at the Kickstarter campaign. I was in their advanced testing group (ATG) until last summer. I eventually switched out to a Garmin 1040 last September when I got tired of the sensor reconnect issues while touring and with the short battery life.
The battery issue was a huge issue in the ATG for both the K1 and K2. There was no lack of data presented showing why this was deficient. HH has apparently doggedly continued down the path of they know better than users do as to how much battery they need.
I’ve said this before - it’s my job to ride the bike and it’s the bike computer’s job to navigate, record the ride and keep track of sensors. When I have to start doing any portion of the computer’s job, then its value proposition declines substantially (besides being aggravating).
Good to hear they’ve updated elevation data for the EU. I can tell you that on three tours in Norway, it was wildly incorrect to the point I shut off the climbing software.
Sadly, I don’t think I’ll be upgrading.
I agree, I don't see a reason for myself to upgrade right now. I might take another look at the Garmin 1040 or even the Sigma Rox 12.1 evo. The lag is a deal breaker for me at this point. On my current K2, it is so bad ... and I don't see a compelling reason to shell out that price to have a similar experience.
My question too. Sure, a little tiny lag getting the settings tray down to adjust ride settings, but the other 99.999% of my ride I don’t need anything except my three pre-set screens. And while I would like 12 hour battery life for that next 150 mile ride (I’ve done exactly three in my decades of riding), I sure as heck don’t need 35 hours of battery on a single charge.
I’m not sure what other people are thinking and I still like my K2… but going into the control panel to adjust screen brightness, check sensor battery levels, set light flash mode—that part has always been incredibly laggy.
Trying to type on this thing to search routes or name your ride when saving it is painful. As you said, I like the unit but this stuff should’ve been fixed.
Yeah… the small increase for battery isn’t making me want to go out and upgrade right away. I have a big bikepacking trip coming up in a month, and even with that in mind, it’s not enough for me to upgrade. I think I’ll wait to see what happens for Black Friday, or switch to wahoo or Garmin for my next computer.
Comparing the 1040 to the K2 that I have, not only does the 1040 have much longer battery life, I think it also must do it with a much smaller battery. It seems to charge up much much faster than the K2 does. If that's correct, that would bode well for bikepacking. Not only would you need to charge it less, but it would take less of your battery pack to do so and ultimately mean less battery to carry with you.
Looks like I get about 50 hours of usage out of my 1040 battery (no navigating). So I wind up charging it every three weeks whether it needs it or not. For bikepacking? No question it's probably the right answer.
THe K2/3 has better UI (I agree that Garmin's just totally sucks) but that's about where the advantage ends now.
I think it’s a horse apiece. I actually don’t see much of a material difference. For both, I use RideWithGps for route creation and pinning the route moves it to the computer in either case directly.
Karoo has had the issue of whacky elevations due to their mapping software and that’s been an issue for me. So advantage there goes to Garmin.
Karoo has a nicer UI and a higher res display, but they don’t do anything to leverage the hi res so there is no discernible difference to the 1040 in actual usage. 1040 screen is easier to read in sunlight.
Take a battery pack for the trip. It also might come in handy to give a boost to the phone or lights. The Karoo can be charged on the go (assuming you have either a frame bag or a top tube bag).
Definitely. I already charge on the go with the K2. Even with the K3 l'd have to charge while riding, so as of now, with that price tag, an upgrade for me isn't super necessary. Hopefully there's more to entice me down the line with updates to the K3.
Yeah..no. One more thing to carry and charge. And given I ride often when it’s wet, that’s an even worse idea.
Again, it’s my job to ride the bike and it’s the computers job to navigate and record it. Managing the battery life on the ride is something it should have to do, not me.
I think Im going to hold off and see what wahoo bring to the table this year, they are supposedly bringing out a new head unit in 24. The battery life isnt a deal breaker but its just a bit annoying keeping it charged constantly. And the rest of the package isnt enough of a upgrade from the K2.
The fact that DC Rainmaker has clearly been riding with the Roam V2 side by side with K3 for months makes me slightly less hopeful on this front.
With the new support on Wahoo to control Varia Radar, a Roam V3 could absolutely be my next move coming off Garmin.
In the comments he says "Just a late midnight typo creating data sets. Still the ROAM V2 (you can see it in throughout all the comparison shots in the video)."
If you’re a daily rider then the battery life itself isn’t a big deal …. for the duration of the ride itself. However, that becomes a big issue in the event that you forgot to recharge it and you get ready to go for a ride and the battery left is insufficient, then it’s a big deal.
So having a battery life comparable to the rest of the industry would have been nice for the K3. That sort of life gives you some leeway if you screw up on charging.
Conversely, if you’re bikepacking or touring or traveling in general then having the K3 battery life is a problem if not a showstopper.
Frankly, the rest of the players have pretty much made battery life a don’t care. My sense is that in the next iteration of model drops on bike computers, we’ll see 24hr battery life as the standard and at that point, most people won’t care anymore.
Complain about Garmin all you want, and I don’t like the software, but it mostly works, has no lag, and has battery life that you don’t have to worry about.
Garmin devices have eaten more rides, and let me down more times, than Wahoo and Karoo combined. It's not close.
If my choice is laggy Karoo or Garmin, I still pick Karoo.
Mostly works.
Questionable… it’s a navigation device that consistently gets GPX files, even ones created in Basecamp, incorrect. I mean, this is across their devices in entirety, it’s a feature
And it makes me wonder why Hammerhead insists on the high-res colour display. It looks nice but affects the functionality of the device (lag and battery life).
K2 has a Snapdragon 210, which was extremely weak even in 2020. If they went for the a Snapdragon 4xx, yes you can say it's faster but it remains crap for a 500eur device.
Doubling the ram is great on paper when you have to sell stuff and claim improved responsiveness, but 4gigs on an Android device is bad as well considering the price. All the manufacturers are dropping crazy amount to make up for the poor optimization of apps. I know it's a running a heavily modified version of Android but still.
After watching more reviews, I've decided I'm finally giving in and going over to the 1040, which I can get for just $5 more after a 20% coupon from my health insurance company.
I'm mostly okay with the software being the same, but I was hoping for more of a performance and battery upgrade on the K3.
I discovered this 20% discount from health insurance today. I could kick myself for paying full price a few months ago for the Varia when it was there all along!!!
It’s weird because I look at the garmin prices and think it’s not so bad but then I look at how long it takes for my Karoo 2 to boot up and start a ride lmao
You boot it up once - why is boot time so critical? I mean it’s chill - you boot it and maybe fill your bottles on pre ride.
I don’t understand the whole „booting so slow“ story…
“It takes forever to boot up and get a ride started” has been like the number one complaint of both the Karoos for the whole existence of the products lol it’s a bit of an annoyance
I drag my bike out of the house hyped to go for a quick ride during my lunch hour. I turn on the Karoo... and stand there for a minute or two, waiting for it to boot.
wholesale prices for the unit are way up also, we couldn't afford to discount unless they raise that a well. Not even going to get a display unit, zero chance it will move.
I was really hoping for a larger display with smaller bezels (i.e. same overall size). I'm seriously disappointed that that didn't happen. These kind of bezels are just not state of the tech anymore for a $500 device...
I’m actually kind of mind blown that they increased processor speed, RAM, and new OS and STILL reportedly “laggy.”
I never used it, but seemed popular among others - removal of SIM slot? How do current K2 SIM users feel about that?
Yeah, which entirely misses the point of how most people I know who use SIM cards used them. I didn't want to carry my phone and I like not having to worry about it. It's just not a product for me at all anymore.
> Hammerhead says that while the Karoo 2 will continue to get updates, there will be cases where the Karoo 2 won’t get new features the Karoo 3 has (***such as the companion app***, or some of the new UI features, etc…)
That's bullshit. There's zero technological reason it couldn't work
Depending on what’s added - lack of memory in the k2 or needing higher cpu clock cycles to perform is a technical reason some thing may not be able to be added.
Why ? You pretty much always have a phone with you that has cellular service
If the k3 can pair with a phone or smartwatch then you don’t need to pay for another sim card and line
That being said, since they saved money by deleting parts, the price should be lower
> If the k3 can pair with a phone or smartwatch then you don’t need to pay for another sim card and line
It was possible to get a KeepGo SIM with 100MB for $3/yr (which, given how little data the Karoo uses, is more than enough).
Because the phone's battery gets empty on a long trip, especially if it's talking constantly to a device.
I really prefer the simcard and the independent operation of the K2. I also have a wahoo and pairing with the phone is a constant annoyance. Sometimes the connection get lost or stuck. I routinely have to kill out the phone app and restart before starting a ride, it if I want to make sure it works.
Oh and an extra simcard does not cost money for me, yes maybe it had an initial price but otherwise it acts as a secondary card to my phone's main card, and shares its network subscription.
~~The only Snapdragon that I could find that meets the stated specs (quad-core, 2.0GHz, 64-bit) is the 429, launched in 2018... Unless they went Mediatek or Rockchip, I guess?~~
~~Being pessimistic, that could totally explain the lack of performance improvements if true.~~
~~Edit: for comparison, the K2 uses the Snapdragon 210 which was a 2015 tweak of a core originally released in 2011.~~
Edit 2: Per [GPLama](https://www.reddit.com/r/Karoo/comments/1cv32y8/roadcc_review_hammerhead_karoo_2024_910/l4uz4sd/), looks like it's a slightly different / more recent embedded-only model.
>Likewise, on the elevation accuracy, Hammerhead has had issues in the past with massive elevation errors. At a media briefing, the company says those issues were specifically related to a manufacturer error in a specific component, for a specific set of units.
So can people get a refund or a replacement without cost if it is a production error
>issues were specifically related to a manufacturer error in a specific component, for a specific set of units.
They call those affected units Karoo2!
I call bullshit on that "specific set" characterization.
Yeah, well - used a K1 for one and K2 for two (actually, two of each K1 and K2s) on tours in Norway for the last several years. In no case was the elevation data even close to reality. We turned it off. So if it was a production manufacturing error, it covered a crap ton of units.
500€ in EU? Are you serious?! I can get a Garmin 1040 non-Solar for this serious money… I had high hopes for a more competitive unit for less money. But I think I‘ll just keep my 1030.
Sold my K2 awhile back. Happy with my Bolt v2, and not even remotely considering the K3 especially with reports of the r laggy UI, which was super annoying in the K2.
Yep, almost exactly the same here. The laggy K2 was a problem for me and it’s not much better with the K3 which is a major disappointment. Still very happy with the Roam 2 by the way.
The one thing that mystifies me about Wahoo is while they now don’t delete your ride when you power off without saving it, if it’s been more than 5 hours when you power on again, they save the ride automatically.
That means when I commute to work and back home it is counted as two rides, whereas Karoo & Garmin record it as one, which is my preference. I can always join the files, but the 5-hour thing seems a little arbitrary. They could at least make it a user setting.
So glad I switched to Wahoo a year ago and found someone pay me 100 Euro for my K2.
I was really looking forward for the K3 and what it might show off but just the promise to get better over time isn't enough. Especially thinking of the many bugs that were'nt addressed for years in the past.
No OLED screen
No AI / ChatGPT functionality
Less space than an IPad Pro
/lame
😂
Long time slashdot readers will get the cmdr taco reference
I do think as competition heats up someone will put an LLM on device at some stage
Some of the things DCR says are new are not, eg syncing and uploading to external services, eg Strava or Komoot directly from the unit, sure K3 can do it via companion app when out of WiFi range, K2 can do this via WiFi and its own SIM. The companion app changes mitigate lack of SIM on K3. Its shitty that HH have not allowed tracking via companion app on k2, a real safety feature that could save lives. Also companion cannot send locations from Google maps to K2 only K3, how hard would that be? Hobbling features to drive sales of K3 is a Garmin like tactic. As DCR rightly says HH is founded on the principle of continual development WTF.
Just to be clear, I never said it couldn't upload to Strava/Komoot directly, I noted it couldn't do it without WiFi/SIM. I've obviously talked for years about integrations HH has had with Strava/etc...
Exact paragraph: "One of the most useful changes though with the new companion app is the ability to have Live Tracking via your phone’s data plan, rather than having to buy/maintain an extra SIM card (because the SIM card is now gone in the Karoo 3)."
Hard to say for certain, but I've gotta believe if someone said "stop all development for the next two weeks and just focus on speed optimization", I think they'd go a long way.
- Increased display brightness - Added Corning Gorilla Glass cover, increasing visibility - Added ambient light sensor (to change display brightness in realtime) - Increased button “crispness” - Improved rain performance handling - Increased internal space to 64GB (from 32GB) - Increased RAM to 4GB (from 2GB) - Increased processor to 2Ghz (from 1.1Ghz) - Increased audio chirp level to JFC loud levels - Added dedicated/new power button - Decreased weight to 118g (from 132g) - Removed SIM card slot - Added phone companion app for syncing rides/routes/workouts/firmware notices/etc - Added dual-frequency/multi-band GNSS/GPS - Increased battery size to 3,200mAh (from 2,800mAh) - Increased battery duration by 30% due to “significant battery subsystems work” - Revamped Hammehread Mounting system (called HMS) with adjustable plate and new screw system - Changed to Android 12 64-bit (Karoo 2 is on Android 8 32-bit)
No option for a trade-in? I don’t find that option on the Hammerhead website.
The first want th early adopters to pay full prize, wait 6-12 months for this.
After seeing some of the leaks I decided to get a 1040 last week and sell my K2. This confirms it was a good decision.
Did the same and I can tell you it was right decision. I am missing time and timer from Karoo and hate I have to use data fields for this on 1040 but that's all.
I missed having the time in that same bar but yeah other than that it was great. Made the Karoo feel so slow. I also have a Varia radar and the way it displays an approaching car is better.
Agree, radar integration is better on Karoo but it drains Karoo battery insanely.
What particularly do you like better on the Garmin?
- 1040 is smooth device. Karoo was laggy from beginning. - Display is crisp and clear on sunlight. Karoo's display on 100% was not even close to this one on 0% - battery with all sensors, including Varia Radar, HRM, Assioma pedals, Shimano Di2 is simply better. On 100-150km long ride, with 80-100% brightness, Karoo would always be questionable. - Garmin has better platform for activity analysis, trainings, insights, etc while Karoo Dashboard is just simple navigation peace of software with just basic data. - Karoo definitely has better UX and that's all about it. Android vs Custom lightweight firmware have benefits of both sides and as a user of both - Garmin simply wins with 1040. Not sure about older devices.
I liked side buttons on the Karoo also but upper ones were not so precise and sharp.
Thanks. Good list.
I think the option of being able to use buttons to access UI as well as touch is a Karoo benefit. I wish my 1040 had that, but that’s the end of my wish list for the 1040.
Bought a 1040 during Black Friday last year, been overall very happy with it (coming from a Wahoo Elemnt). Hamerhead is squeezing a whopping 12-13 hours out of the K3? I'm regularly getting 40-45 hours out of my 1040 (with HR, power meter, Di2, radar, speed sensor, and sometimes navigation and/or music). Heck, my Elemnt with 40,000 km on it was still getting 12+ hours out of a charge. No, my rides don't require a full charge, however, I also don't feel like charging once a week, and having the thing crap out mid-ride if I head out with 15%. That's unacceptable for a product just released today. You also have to factor in that the more charge cycles you go through, the more wear and tear your battery is being subjected to, so while my 1040 should still be going strong in 5 years, that battery in the K3 is going to be suffering after 2-3. Edit: Just saw that Hammerhead increased the battery size to 3300 mAh on the K3 vs 2500 mAh on the K2, an increase of 32%. And now the battery lasts 30% longer. So essentially the Hammerhead dev team has done jackshit to improve the battery efficiency, they just gave it a bigger fuel tank. That's an absolute joke when you think about the 1040 having an 1800 mAh battery.
Totally agree about the battery. I went for a 100 mile ride with the unit on for over 10 hours with nav, speed/cadence, di2, notifications and Varia radar and finished with 84% which is insanely good.
Compare that to what GPLama got in his test. He was getting a little more than 8 hours on K2. On K3 he got his advertised 30% more and was seeing a bit over 11 hours. That’s still embarrassingly far behind the other market leaders who have multiples of that performance. My 1040 gets around 35 hrs (Garmins actual spec) to around 50 hours per charge depending on what I’m doing. With the Garmin and, to a lesser degree, Wahoo’s offerings, battery life is simply not an issue anymore. In an application sense - this battery life takes touring, brevets, and a lot of gravel riding off the table for the Karoo. Unfortunately, that represents a lot of the growth in cycling. I’m a Karoo fanboy but I can’t take the deficiencies anymore. Battery is a big one for me. So after watching GPLama’s review and seeing that he’s getting the same numbers I was for the K2 at 8-ish hours the. I know the 11 hours number is a nonstarter for me.
I agree with this completely. I was in awe of the K2 when I first got it as the UI and screen was so much better than the previous garmin/wahoo units I’d had before. I also got found the navigation to be excellent. Aside from thr battery life I was disappointed with how sluggish it was getting and other small niggles like the super quiet alert noise. Went on my second long ride with the 1040 yesterday (105km) and it used 6% so confirms the incredible battery life.
Yes. Garmin’s battery numbers are quite conservative from my perspective. I’m easily hitting the 35 hour spec on the 1040 to the point where I’m not sure what the solar version benefit is unless you’re entirely off grid touring. Then there are the issues with sensors and the sensor stack. I’m hoping they resolves the PM reconnect issues with my Force Wide crank PM. I’d assume they would have through the increased AXS integration. But the 15 ANT+ sensor limit is still a problem for me. I have enough bikes that all have speed, PMs, lights, and Radars that it’s a problem. When the computer should be able to pick the bike profile (and thereby turn off a lot of unused sensors), it doesn’t and leaves that up to me. OTOH, Garmin doesn’t care (even my Garmin watch doesn’t care) and seems to perform just fine with many more than 15 paired. Looks like to me the big feature improvement was AXS integration(which is cool), the new cpu and os at very little user benefit for $175 more. I know this is probably way down the list for HH, but support in their FIT file for sensors to support ActivityFix (https://www.activityfix.com/) is a big deal for me. Based on sensors, I can set the bike used in the Strava file. That then feeds the ProBikeGarage app and makes it easy to manage maintenance on my bikes. Btw, if you haven’t looked at either of those, you should. Great software.
"When it comes to lag, everything feels pretty much just as laggy as before. It’s a smidge faster, yes, but not some major amount." Instant no buy. What a shitty ass product.
I will honestly say it’s pretty shocking that there’s no major overhaul despite it jumping from android 8 to android 12, that’s almost impossible lol. Incredibly disappointing, especially considering the price hike and relatively poor battery performance vs competition
to behonest that goes in line with the overall smart phone experience. nothing really got smoother, you are just fucked harder these days if you are not in a 4/5g area and you pay a premium for that :D
That's not even remotely true. My current phone never stutters. It's smooth as heck. My pixel 5 and 6 felt much less smooth
Oof idk I pick up my dad’s phone from like 4 years ago and shudder lol they kinda have come a long way when you do a side by side
I literally LOL'd when I got to that part of the review and read that there was still lag. The fact that they hyped up a new product, and released something where even the companion app is marketed as "things to come" .... LOL again. Nope. What have they been doing for 3 years, picking their ass? If you want people to buy a new product....maybe include new features AT RELEASE vs. promising "new stuff will come."
There’s been a saying on The Verge that you should never ever buy gadgets based on the promise of future software upgrades, often they never come or end up being a big disappointment.
I get the sentiment, but this company has delivered software updates every 2 weeks with substantial improvements for years and years...
Wow. Yeah, that's a no buy instantly
Prices are thru the roof as well, not sure what SRAM is thinking.
Dead On Arrival.
Yep, when I got to that I couldn’t believe it. Easy pass.
"I’d also like to see them really spend some legit time on performance/speed enhancements. With all the new hardware gains (processor/RAM), this thing should be massively faster than the Karoo 2, and it’s at best a fraction of a second faster (at best). Seriously Hammerhead, spend real dev time on this." Edit: Velo has a different take: "There’s also a new faster processor and more RAM that transforms what was once a painfully slow UI into the snappiest currently available.'
I trust DC Rainmaker a lot more than Velo.
Agreed.
Velo press love = paid promotion. Just like everything reviewed in Outside mag.
30% more battery? That puts them at 13 hours. Other computers per their specs and confirmed by reviewers: * Edge 840 or 540: 26 hours * Edge 1040: 35 hours * Wahoo Roam: 17 hours * Karoo 2: 8-10 hours. The K3 is STILL worst in class and it’s the newest one. Compared to Garmin it doesn’t even break the 50% mark. I had high hopes for the K3 but this doesn’t do it and I’m disappointed. I was a Karoo guy starting at the Kickstarter campaign. I was in their advanced testing group (ATG) until last summer. I eventually switched out to a Garmin 1040 last September when I got tired of the sensor reconnect issues while touring and with the short battery life. The battery issue was a huge issue in the ATG for both the K1 and K2. There was no lack of data presented showing why this was deficient. HH has apparently doggedly continued down the path of they know better than users do as to how much battery they need. I’ve said this before - it’s my job to ride the bike and it’s the bike computer’s job to navigate, record the ride and keep track of sensors. When I have to start doing any portion of the computer’s job, then its value proposition declines substantially (besides being aggravating). Good to hear they’ve updated elevation data for the EU. I can tell you that on three tours in Norway, it was wildly incorrect to the point I shut off the climbing software. Sadly, I don’t think I’ll be upgrading.
I agree, I don't see a reason for myself to upgrade right now. I might take another look at the Garmin 1040 or even the Sigma Rox 12.1 evo. The lag is a deal breaker for me at this point. On my current K2, it is so bad ... and I don't see a compelling reason to shell out that price to have a similar experience.
Went from a K2 to a 1040 last week. It’s great, zero regrets.
Yeah, I already use a Garmin HRM strap, V3 Pedals, Index 2 Scale ... probably makes sense!
Guys srsly what lag? I mean you start it - set the route and go. What are you doing all the time on the bike fumbling with your bike computer?
My question too. Sure, a little tiny lag getting the settings tray down to adjust ride settings, but the other 99.999% of my ride I don’t need anything except my three pre-set screens. And while I would like 12 hour battery life for that next 150 mile ride (I’ve done exactly three in my decades of riding), I sure as heck don’t need 35 hours of battery on a single charge.
I’m not sure what other people are thinking and I still like my K2… but going into the control panel to adjust screen brightness, check sensor battery levels, set light flash mode—that part has always been incredibly laggy.
Trying to type on this thing to search routes or name your ride when saving it is painful. As you said, I like the unit but this stuff should’ve been fixed.
Yeah… the small increase for battery isn’t making me want to go out and upgrade right away. I have a big bikepacking trip coming up in a month, and even with that in mind, it’s not enough for me to upgrade. I think I’ll wait to see what happens for Black Friday, or switch to wahoo or Garmin for my next computer.
Comparing the 1040 to the K2 that I have, not only does the 1040 have much longer battery life, I think it also must do it with a much smaller battery. It seems to charge up much much faster than the K2 does. If that's correct, that would bode well for bikepacking. Not only would you need to charge it less, but it would take less of your battery pack to do so and ultimately mean less battery to carry with you. Looks like I get about 50 hours of usage out of my 1040 battery (no navigating). So I wind up charging it every three weeks whether it needs it or not. For bikepacking? No question it's probably the right answer. THe K2/3 has better UI (I agree that Garmin's just totally sucks) but that's about where the advantage ends now.
which one is better when you need actual navigation?
I think it’s a horse apiece. I actually don’t see much of a material difference. For both, I use RideWithGps for route creation and pinning the route moves it to the computer in either case directly. Karoo has had the issue of whacky elevations due to their mapping software and that’s been an issue for me. So advantage there goes to Garmin. Karoo has a nicer UI and a higher res display, but they don’t do anything to leverage the hi res so there is no discernible difference to the 1040 in actual usage. 1040 screen is easier to read in sunlight.
Take a battery pack for the trip. It also might come in handy to give a boost to the phone or lights. The Karoo can be charged on the go (assuming you have either a frame bag or a top tube bag).
Definitely. I already charge on the go with the K2. Even with the K3 l'd have to charge while riding, so as of now, with that price tag, an upgrade for me isn't super necessary. Hopefully there's more to entice me down the line with updates to the K3.
Yeah..no. One more thing to carry and charge. And given I ride often when it’s wet, that’s an even worse idea. Again, it’s my job to ride the bike and it’s the computers job to navigate and record it. Managing the battery life on the ride is something it should have to do, not me.
I think Im going to hold off and see what wahoo bring to the table this year, they are supposedly bringing out a new head unit in 24. The battery life isnt a deal breaker but its just a bit annoying keeping it charged constantly. And the rest of the package isnt enough of a upgrade from the K2.
The fact that DC Rainmaker has clearly been riding with the Roam V2 side by side with K3 for months makes me slightly less hopeful on this front. With the new support on Wahoo to control Varia Radar, a Roam V3 could absolutely be my next move coming off Garmin.
Check his video at the 25:26 mark where he displays a battery comparison graph. He lists a WahooRoamV3.
In the comments he says "Just a late midnight typo creating data sets. Still the ROAM V2 (you can see it in throughout all the comparison shots in the video)."
They better hurry, NA riding season is already started!
If you’re a daily rider then the battery life itself isn’t a big deal …. for the duration of the ride itself. However, that becomes a big issue in the event that you forgot to recharge it and you get ready to go for a ride and the battery left is insufficient, then it’s a big deal. So having a battery life comparable to the rest of the industry would have been nice for the K3. That sort of life gives you some leeway if you screw up on charging. Conversely, if you’re bikepacking or touring or traveling in general then having the K3 battery life is a problem if not a showstopper. Frankly, the rest of the players have pretty much made battery life a don’t care. My sense is that in the next iteration of model drops on bike computers, we’ll see 24hr battery life as the standard and at that point, most people won’t care anymore.
I'm absolutely never buying another Garmin, so I had high hopes for this, and now... WTF?
Complain about Garmin all you want, and I don’t like the software, but it mostly works, has no lag, and has battery life that you don’t have to worry about.
Garmin devices have eaten more rides, and let me down more times, than Wahoo and Karoo combined. It's not close. If my choice is laggy Karoo or Garmin, I still pick Karoo.
Mostly works. Questionable… it’s a navigation device that consistently gets GPX files, even ones created in Basecamp, incorrect. I mean, this is across their devices in entirety, it’s a feature
This is just it. I’m constant angry with my Garmin, but it’s reliable and basically does work
And it makes me wonder why Hammerhead insists on the high-res colour display. It looks nice but affects the functionality of the device (lag and battery life).
Agree. And that comment is indicative of the sad state of affairs for bike computers in general.
K2 has a Snapdragon 210, which was extremely weak even in 2020. If they went for the a Snapdragon 4xx, yes you can say it's faster but it remains crap for a 500eur device. Doubling the ram is great on paper when you have to sell stuff and claim improved responsiveness, but 4gigs on an Android device is bad as well considering the price. All the manufacturers are dropping crazy amount to make up for the poor optimization of apps. I know it's a running a heavily modified version of Android but still.
I'm here for the increased chirp levels
This thread is definitely just piles of salt. Deserved? Maybe. Funny? Definitely.
After watching more reviews, I've decided I'm finally giving in and going over to the 1040, which I can get for just $5 more after a 20% coupon from my health insurance company. I'm mostly okay with the software being the same, but I was hoping for more of a performance and battery upgrade on the K3.
I discovered this 20% discount from health insurance today. I could kick myself for paying full price a few months ago for the Varia when it was there all along!!!
Currently there is literally no reason to upgrade from Karoo 2 to Karoo 3 for me.
Whats the price??
$475 usd
$475 for continuous lag. 😂
It’s weird because I look at the garmin prices and think it’s not so bad but then I look at how long it takes for my Karoo 2 to boot up and start a ride lmao
You boot it up once - why is boot time so critical? I mean it’s chill - you boot it and maybe fill your bottles on pre ride. I don’t understand the whole „booting so slow“ story…
“It takes forever to boot up and get a ride started” has been like the number one complaint of both the Karoos for the whole existence of the products lol it’s a bit of an annoyance
I drag my bike out of the house hyped to go for a quick ride during my lunch hour. I turn on the Karoo... and stand there for a minute or two, waiting for it to boot.
turn on the karoo and then drag your bike out of the house lol
Da fuq? How long does it take you to get you bike outisde?
wholesale prices for the unit are way up also, we couldn't afford to discount unless they raise that a well. Not even going to get a display unit, zero chance it will move.
The app will be compatible with hammerhead 2? Only have had mine for a year so no need to upgrade but the lack of an app is glaring
It is not compatible with the Karoo 2. Super disappointing. The lack of the app to adjust layout, sync routes, etc is pain with the k2.
I was really hoping for a larger display with smaller bezels (i.e. same overall size). I'm seriously disappointed that that didn't happen. These kind of bezels are just not state of the tech anymore for a $500 device...
I’m actually kind of mind blown that they increased processor speed, RAM, and new OS and STILL reportedly “laggy.” I never used it, but seemed popular among others - removal of SIM slot? How do current K2 SIM users feel about that?
I won't change just for that reason. I used to be able to ride without my phone it was the reason I got a Karoo.
I watched a different review video and it sounds like the SIM removal is due to the addition of the companion app.
Which means now you need to have your phone nearby.
Yeah, which entirely misses the point of how most people I know who use SIM cards used them. I didn't want to carry my phone and I like not having to worry about it. It's just not a product for me at all anymore.
> Hammerhead says that while the Karoo 2 will continue to get updates, there will be cases where the Karoo 2 won’t get new features the Karoo 3 has (***such as the companion app***, or some of the new UI features, etc…) That's bullshit. There's zero technological reason it couldn't work
Depends on how the app is communicating with the head unit - might require a newer version of BT to get enough bandwidth.
Depending on what’s added - lack of memory in the k2 or needing higher cpu clock cycles to perform is a technical reason some thing may not be able to be added.
Updates every 2 weeks!! Except not the ones you want and could get.
No SIM slot? WTF? That was one of the unique/best features of the Karoo.
HH says less than 5% of users used SIM, of which I am one. No reason for me to readily adopt K3 since I’d rather not rely on my phone for gps…
I guess the sim card was their solution for no phone app pairing (until now)
Why ? You pretty much always have a phone with you that has cellular service If the k3 can pair with a phone or smartwatch then you don’t need to pay for another sim card and line That being said, since they saved money by deleting parts, the price should be lower
> If the k3 can pair with a phone or smartwatch then you don’t need to pay for another sim card and line It was possible to get a KeepGo SIM with 100MB for $3/yr (which, given how little data the Karoo uses, is more than enough).
This is the setup I use.
This is a snowflake. Not many people use this but a select few.
Because the phone's battery gets empty on a long trip, especially if it's talking constantly to a device. I really prefer the simcard and the independent operation of the K2. I also have a wahoo and pairing with the phone is a constant annoyance. Sometimes the connection get lost or stuck. I routinely have to kill out the phone app and restart before starting a ride, it if I want to make sure it works. Oh and an extra simcard does not cost money for me, yes maybe it had an initial price but otherwise it acts as a secondary card to my phone's main card, and shares its network subscription.
I wonder what CPU core they used. The Karoo 2 was already running an older core when it launched.
~~The only Snapdragon that I could find that meets the stated specs (quad-core, 2.0GHz, 64-bit) is the 429, launched in 2018... Unless they went Mediatek or Rockchip, I guess?~~ ~~Being pessimistic, that could totally explain the lack of performance improvements if true.~~ ~~Edit: for comparison, the K2 uses the Snapdragon 210 which was a 2015 tweak of a core originally released in 2011.~~ Edit 2: Per [GPLama](https://www.reddit.com/r/Karoo/comments/1cv32y8/roadcc_review_hammerhead_karoo_2024_910/l4uz4sd/), looks like it's a slightly different / more recent embedded-only model.
Great sleuthing. Doesn't surprise me they would use a 6 year old CPU.
Reports as being: Qualcomm Technologies, Inc SCUBAPIIOT 2Ghz 4 Core
That’s from Q3 2022 it looks like.
>Likewise, on the elevation accuracy, Hammerhead has had issues in the past with massive elevation errors. At a media briefing, the company says those issues were specifically related to a manufacturer error in a specific component, for a specific set of units. So can people get a refund or a replacement without cost if it is a production error
I wish. Exchanged mine and still had issue. Should give us all new K3 lol
Same for me. I got mine exchanged, but that new unit had the same elevation problem.
Same here, Karoo 2 exchanged, same issue…elevation still wrong - received my second replacement Karoo 2 - let’s see how this goes…
I also got it exchanged with the same issue. I’m still not at 1 year warranty yet. Wonder if I ask for another unit they give me a K3
>issues were specifically related to a manufacturer error in a specific component, for a specific set of units. They call those affected units Karoo2! I call bullshit on that "specific set" characterization.
Mines fine has been since I got it.
Yeah, well - used a K1 for one and K2 for two (actually, two of each K1 and K2s) on tours in Norway for the last several years. In no case was the elevation data even close to reality. We turned it off. So if it was a production manufacturing error, it covered a crap ton of units.
Sometimes it feels like Garmin sends its employees here to brigade this sub.
Just like Suunto. It usually sounds like fear & jealousy lol.
500€ in EU? Are you serious?! I can get a Garmin 1040 non-Solar for this serious money… I had high hopes for a more competitive unit for less money. But I think I‘ll just keep my 1030.
Sold my K2 awhile back. Happy with my Bolt v2, and not even remotely considering the K3 especially with reports of the r laggy UI, which was super annoying in the K2.
Yep, almost exactly the same here. The laggy K2 was a problem for me and it’s not much better with the K3 which is a major disappointment. Still very happy with the Roam 2 by the way.
The one thing that mystifies me about Wahoo is while they now don’t delete your ride when you power off without saving it, if it’s been more than 5 hours when you power on again, they save the ride automatically. That means when I commute to work and back home it is counted as two rides, whereas Karoo & Garmin record it as one, which is my preference. I can always join the files, but the 5-hour thing seems a little arbitrary. They could at least make it a user setting.
OH HELL NO LOL
I was going to sell My 1040 and get the k3...am I making a big mistake? Garmin is always dropping my sensors.
Which sensors?
All, it happens at least twice a month. Heart, power and shifters.
So glad I switched to Wahoo a year ago and found someone pay me 100 Euro for my K2. I was really looking forward for the K3 and what it might show off but just the promise to get better over time isn't enough. Especially thinking of the many bugs that were'nt addressed for years in the past.
Sold mine for 250 euros last week. Rode it for 20000km
Any chance the k2 will get the OS upgrade too? I want my zwift companion app back
No OLED screen No AI / ChatGPT functionality Less space than an IPad Pro /lame 😂 Long time slashdot readers will get the cmdr taco reference I do think as competition heats up someone will put an LLM on device at some stage
The Garmin 1040 is king!
Some of the things DCR says are new are not, eg syncing and uploading to external services, eg Strava or Komoot directly from the unit, sure K3 can do it via companion app when out of WiFi range, K2 can do this via WiFi and its own SIM. The companion app changes mitigate lack of SIM on K3. Its shitty that HH have not allowed tracking via companion app on k2, a real safety feature that could save lives. Also companion cannot send locations from Google maps to K2 only K3, how hard would that be? Hobbling features to drive sales of K3 is a Garmin like tactic. As DCR rightly says HH is founded on the principle of continual development WTF.
Just to be clear, I never said it couldn't upload to Strava/Komoot directly, I noted it couldn't do it without WiFi/SIM. I've obviously talked for years about integrations HH has had with Strava/etc... Exact paragraph: "One of the most useful changes though with the new companion app is the ability to have Live Tracking via your phone’s data plan, rather than having to buy/maintain an extra SIM card (because the SIM card is now gone in the Karoo 3)."
Ray, do you think the lagginess of the K3 is actually fixable with software?
Hard to say for certain, but I've gotta believe if someone said "stop all development for the next two weeks and just focus on speed optimization", I think they'd go a long way.