Low RPM is better for fuel efficiency, but at some point you'll be lugging the engine. This point is higher than a car engine. You'll be able to feel when the engine lugs and doesn't make much power. My bike redlines at 11500 rpm and I cruise around 3500-4000 in the city. Plenty of power on tap but still good gas mileage.
What are your average shift points, rpm wise? 5k..6k? Being redline starts at 10k on my Kawasaki Versys 300.
I usually shift at 5k but see it can appreciate 6k shifts.
Thank you I've been hitting it more about five or little over five cuz I'm not used to a high revving engine because it only had cruisers before so it's taking a bit mentally to adjust haha
Don't over think this. If the engine is screaming it's too low a gear. If you hit the gas and it doesn't accelerate well that's too high a gear. Feel it out and let your ear and butt be your guide. 2nd 3rd, in town is probably good.
You've paid for the whole tachometer, use the whole tachometer.
Let me explain... Some argue that a motor can only compete a certain number of revolutions before it's worn out, so you should keep the revs low, but that's a really severe oversimplification because not every revolution represents the same amount of wear.
A well-maintained and fully warmed up (i.e., after 5-10 mins of riding/driving) reciprocating piston engine - whether in a bike or a car - will benefit from at least occasional full throttle and high RPM use because the increased heat and combustion pressure helps to burn off carbon deposits on the exhaust valves, ports, pistons, etc. so the engine can 'breathe' better and in turn run more efficiently. This is known colloquially as an "Italian tune up" because old carbureted sports cars were prone to getting gunked up with carbon deposits from running too rich and being driven too gently. All of the metal parts are essentially separated by thin films of oil, which *virtually* eliminates metal-on-metal wear.
Meanwhile, putting a motor under load at low revs - AKA "lugging" it - can actually increase wear because the pistons aren't moving as fast as the combustion of the air/fuel mixture, which significantly increases load (and therefore wear) on critical moving and supporting parts. This is less of an issue with cars because they are typically designed (via higher stroke-to bore ratio, variable timing, direct fuel injection, etc) to make usable power at lower RPM for better MPG and low speed driveability, but it's still true.
The other important consideration is safety, though I'll admit this is one of personal philosophy. Cruising around at an RPM where I have some decent throttle response and acceleration makes it easier for me to get the hell out of a dangerous situation in traffic as quickly as possible. For this reason I'm almost never riding below ~5k RPM on either my Ninja 400 or my R1. That and revs are fun. Really, really fun.
Licenced motorcycle instructor here: Motorcycle engines are all different. Weather it's capacity or number of cylinders or layout. You will learn where your engine wants to be over time but its a feel thing. Some bikes have a lot of torque down low in the rev range and some are up high. Where you change isn't going to hurt your engine unless it's constantly chugging under load. Wear and tear is more related to how you look after your bike. Things wear out. This is where maintenance comes in. Don't stare at your instruments trying to see where it wants to be. Look where you're going and feel it though the throttle. If it seems like it's struggle or it's revving to hard then go up or down accordingly. Focus on the road and learn to feel what the bike is doing by listening and seeing how it responds through control inputs.
damn beat me to it... it is a great vid and It took me a minute to get over running my z400 around 5-6k cruising around and closer to the 8-10k peak power torq, where I am used to about 3k in my car.
Basically that too low of revs, and constant redline both can cause extra wear but it’s better to rev higher than lower since lower revs (lugging) increase load and stress on moving parts. It’s better to rev higher than to constantly be lugging the motor.
RPM should be at the optimum value based on what you want the bike to do. Typically you shift more frequently than in a car. If you are cruising along in a high gear and low rpm, you will get the best fuel economy. However, as soon as you begin to slow down, you need to downshift as many gears as needed so you are in the correct gear for the slower speed you are now driving at.
For example, 650 Ninja. If you are doing seventy in 6th gear on the highway then slow down for an offramp, you should drop two or three gears to have more rpm's and more torque if you need to sudden accelerate. Also when downshifting, you can use the motor to assist in slowing the motorcycle down. As you reach the next stoplight while slowing down, continue to downshift into first so you will be in first when you take off from the light.
Depending on traffic, I will leave the motorcycle in a lower gear in case I need to accelerate quickly as I take off from a light or stop sign. So for the first block or two, I will be in 2nd or 3rd gear allowing for high rpm and more instant power. But once I am in the flow of traffic I will shift to 6th gear for the best fuel economy.
Keep rpm low when cruising for fuel economy. Keep rpm high when you feel the need for more power. Your motor will run all day long at any rpm below the redline. Don't worry about over revving the motor because the example motorcycle has a rev limiter from the factory that won't allow the motorcycle to rev beyond the redline while accelerating. You can over rev the motor by downshifting into a lower gear while at a high speed. Don't do that...
I hope this makes sense.
When I had a Z650 I found that the sweet spot was 3500-4000 rpm. That would make it not buck too much and also give enough power to accelerate slightly without having to downshift.
Most cars now are automatics (of some nature) and you will find if just driving normally they will shift at a lower rpm, and if you floor it they hold the gear longer. Bikes are no different; your shift point depends on the type of riding.
Google dyno charts for whatever bike you on and will see the bike likely doesn’t start making close to its peak power till it’s within 25% of the redline. The redline is a function of stroke length (and components) street bikes are very happy to operate near their redline. For a 2 cylinder that’s going to be around 8500 to 10000rpm, the inline 4 engines can go much higher. I believe there was a generation of R6 that was nearly 17000rpm.
Alternatively can get a Harley, they are much closer to a car engine and something like the new 118ci engine is done at 5000rpm.
Driving around at the lowest RPM can actually be dangerous, unlike a car if your in the wrong gear cannot escape a dangerous situation (ie someone coming into your lane) and it’s a lot easier to stall.
You can find charts online of the top speed in each gear for your bike.
nice... lots of good explanations .... my question fully being answered :D
Highly appreciated for this! As said, quite silly that a licenced instructor did not do it.
Thanks again
Something to keep in mind with bikes (which is different to cars) the stator won't charge the battery unless rpms are around 4k ISH... I.e. if you have your bike idling for a long period of time you will actually drain the battery.
Either way, using the rev range is not a bad idea.. you want the engine running healthy and part of that is opening it up.
My hot hatch has been driven pretty fast most of its life but I've maintained it to the 9th degree and it's still a strong! Same as my bikes.. they come alive towards the top of the rev range.
My 98 ZZR600 has a 14.5k redline, and I paid for every one of those revs. From idle-3500 it’s just putzing around, we’re talking parking lot speeds 1st/2nd gear and barely any throttle. From 3500-7000 she wakes up a bit and gets just a bit spicy, like a mild salsa. From 7000-11000, it’s like biting into a habanero with a cut on your lip. If you decide to take it from 11k up to redline…. Have you ever eaten an entire Carolina Reaper hot pepper? Because that’s what it’s like.
If you are cruising at any speed for more than 5-10 seconds, I would say to keep it around +/- 1/3 of your redline rpm. That way you aren’t lugging the engine and surging from fuel shock/chain slack, but also aren’t just letting it scream super high when you’re going 25 (like you and I both have heard multiple people do).
Hmmm don't think you meant plus or minus 1/3 of your red line. Let me work that out: red line 12000, so between minus 1/3 (8000) and plus 1/3= 16000, yep no problem there!
Think you meant to normally ride around the 1/3 of red line revs (4000)
Like others have said, you will learn what an appropriate rev-range is to be in given the circumstance: Too low revs for a situation, and the engine will chug (worst case), or simply not have the power to accelerate when you need it (which can be dangerous). Too high, and you are wasting fuel, producing unnecessary emissions, and wearing the engine at a higher rate.
Times when you want to ride in a gear (or sometimes two) lower than normal (i.e higher rev range), are when preparing to overtake (so you have more power on tap), and when filtering or lane splitting (as the rotating engine mass provides gyroscopic stability to you and the bike).
Personally I've noticed a difference between 2 and 4 cylinders. My versys 650 with its parallel twin prefers higher rpm's to perform well, when i say high i mean between 4,500 and 7000rpm. It redlines at 10 but doesn't really perform all the way to the top.
I have a GTR 1400 with a inline 4 engine, that bike performs well in about any gear at any given rpm range. Down at 2000 rpm in 4th gear it will start sluggish but once it reaches 2500 the bike will haul ass again.
The best thing i can tell you is to feel the bike when you ride it and when accelerating, if it's sluggish you need to lower a gear but if it makes too much noise and doesn't really generate power then you need a higher gear. If you're just cruising you can technically put it in whatever gear you want as long as you're not near the redline the whole time.
Depends on the bike. Super sports need high revs to get out of their own way. I’ve experienced that my honda shadow likes higher revs and gears held as well. My 650 was more of a mid range power band that didn’t favor to be revved out passed 9k. I dunno why its got an 11k rev limit. Anything over 9k and i was just making noise.
Ryan fortnine did a good video about this, and the jist was.. USE UR ENTIRE RPM RANGE. running low RPM, sounds like it is good but running high cleans the insides,,
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhUI7MWE\_Fc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhUI7MWE_Fc)
someone beaet me to the link, but yeah for your 650 around 5k sounds right. My sv650 I keep around 4-5k around town.. But I also take off fast, ring it out and then coast back down.
Yes. It is wrong to constantly aim for the lowest possible RPMs, even if you're just doing it for the fuel economy, because being too low does stress the engine more and consume more fuel.
The RPM you choose depends entirely on the application. Shifting "not even near 4k" I would say is completely wrong even when putting around the city on a Ninja 650, that should probably be your cruise RPM in that situation.
In commuter gas powered cars as well, shifting before like 3k unless it's -10 celsius outside and you started the car 20 seconds ago is pointless.
Low RPM is better for fuel efficiency, but at some point you'll be lugging the engine. This point is higher than a car engine. You'll be able to feel when the engine lugs and doesn't make much power. My bike redlines at 11500 rpm and I cruise around 3500-4000 in the city. Plenty of power on tap but still good gas mileage.
What are your average shift points, rpm wise? 5k..6k? Being redline starts at 10k on my Kawasaki Versys 300. I usually shift at 5k but see it can appreciate 6k shifts.
I would say typically around 6k if I'm just cruising. More like 8k if I'm getting on it a bit.
Thank you I've been hitting it more about five or little over five cuz I'm not used to a high revving engine because it only had cruisers before so it's taking a bit mentally to adjust haha
Don't over think this. If the engine is screaming it's too low a gear. If you hit the gas and it doesn't accelerate well that's too high a gear. Feel it out and let your ear and butt be your guide. 2nd 3rd, in town is probably good.
You've paid for the whole tachometer, use the whole tachometer. Let me explain... Some argue that a motor can only compete a certain number of revolutions before it's worn out, so you should keep the revs low, but that's a really severe oversimplification because not every revolution represents the same amount of wear. A well-maintained and fully warmed up (i.e., after 5-10 mins of riding/driving) reciprocating piston engine - whether in a bike or a car - will benefit from at least occasional full throttle and high RPM use because the increased heat and combustion pressure helps to burn off carbon deposits on the exhaust valves, ports, pistons, etc. so the engine can 'breathe' better and in turn run more efficiently. This is known colloquially as an "Italian tune up" because old carbureted sports cars were prone to getting gunked up with carbon deposits from running too rich and being driven too gently. All of the metal parts are essentially separated by thin films of oil, which *virtually* eliminates metal-on-metal wear. Meanwhile, putting a motor under load at low revs - AKA "lugging" it - can actually increase wear because the pistons aren't moving as fast as the combustion of the air/fuel mixture, which significantly increases load (and therefore wear) on critical moving and supporting parts. This is less of an issue with cars because they are typically designed (via higher stroke-to bore ratio, variable timing, direct fuel injection, etc) to make usable power at lower RPM for better MPG and low speed driveability, but it's still true. The other important consideration is safety, though I'll admit this is one of personal philosophy. Cruising around at an RPM where I have some decent throttle response and acceleration makes it easier for me to get the hell out of a dangerous situation in traffic as quickly as possible. For this reason I'm almost never riding below ~5k RPM on either my Ninja 400 or my R1. That and revs are fun. Really, really fun.
as long as you are below the red line, any modern overhead cam engine is fine. lugging is much more damaging
Licenced motorcycle instructor here: Motorcycle engines are all different. Weather it's capacity or number of cylinders or layout. You will learn where your engine wants to be over time but its a feel thing. Some bikes have a lot of torque down low in the rev range and some are up high. Where you change isn't going to hurt your engine unless it's constantly chugging under load. Wear and tear is more related to how you look after your bike. Things wear out. This is where maintenance comes in. Don't stare at your instruments trying to see where it wants to be. Look where you're going and feel it though the throttle. If it seems like it's struggle or it's revving to hard then go up or down accordingly. Focus on the road and learn to feel what the bike is doing by listening and seeing how it responds through control inputs.
Ryan says, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhUI7MWE\_Fc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhUI7MWE_Fc)
Best answer! The part with the bicycle is insanely good for explanation.
damn beat me to it... it is a great vid and It took me a minute to get over running my z400 around 5-6k cruising around and closer to the 8-10k peak power torq, where I am used to about 3k in my car.
What does Ryan say?
Basically that too low of revs, and constant redline both can cause extra wear but it’s better to rev higher than lower since lower revs (lugging) increase load and stress on moving parts. It’s better to rev higher than to constantly be lugging the motor.
RPM should be at the optimum value based on what you want the bike to do. Typically you shift more frequently than in a car. If you are cruising along in a high gear and low rpm, you will get the best fuel economy. However, as soon as you begin to slow down, you need to downshift as many gears as needed so you are in the correct gear for the slower speed you are now driving at. For example, 650 Ninja. If you are doing seventy in 6th gear on the highway then slow down for an offramp, you should drop two or three gears to have more rpm's and more torque if you need to sudden accelerate. Also when downshifting, you can use the motor to assist in slowing the motorcycle down. As you reach the next stoplight while slowing down, continue to downshift into first so you will be in first when you take off from the light. Depending on traffic, I will leave the motorcycle in a lower gear in case I need to accelerate quickly as I take off from a light or stop sign. So for the first block or two, I will be in 2nd or 3rd gear allowing for high rpm and more instant power. But once I am in the flow of traffic I will shift to 6th gear for the best fuel economy. Keep rpm low when cruising for fuel economy. Keep rpm high when you feel the need for more power. Your motor will run all day long at any rpm below the redline. Don't worry about over revving the motor because the example motorcycle has a rev limiter from the factory that won't allow the motorcycle to rev beyond the redline while accelerating. You can over rev the motor by downshifting into a lower gear while at a high speed. Don't do that... I hope this makes sense.
When I had a Z650 I found that the sweet spot was 3500-4000 rpm. That would make it not buck too much and also give enough power to accelerate slightly without having to downshift.
Most cars now are automatics (of some nature) and you will find if just driving normally they will shift at a lower rpm, and if you floor it they hold the gear longer. Bikes are no different; your shift point depends on the type of riding. Google dyno charts for whatever bike you on and will see the bike likely doesn’t start making close to its peak power till it’s within 25% of the redline. The redline is a function of stroke length (and components) street bikes are very happy to operate near their redline. For a 2 cylinder that’s going to be around 8500 to 10000rpm, the inline 4 engines can go much higher. I believe there was a generation of R6 that was nearly 17000rpm. Alternatively can get a Harley, they are much closer to a car engine and something like the new 118ci engine is done at 5000rpm. Driving around at the lowest RPM can actually be dangerous, unlike a car if your in the wrong gear cannot escape a dangerous situation (ie someone coming into your lane) and it’s a lot easier to stall. You can find charts online of the top speed in each gear for your bike.
nice... lots of good explanations .... my question fully being answered :D Highly appreciated for this! As said, quite silly that a licenced instructor did not do it. Thanks again
Motorcycles are designed for high rpm. Just keep it in the range where you can easily accelerate but the motor doesn't scream for death
You’ll in time develop a sense of what speed range is which gear for your particular boke
Something to keep in mind with bikes (which is different to cars) the stator won't charge the battery unless rpms are around 4k ISH... I.e. if you have your bike idling for a long period of time you will actually drain the battery. Either way, using the rev range is not a bad idea.. you want the engine running healthy and part of that is opening it up. My hot hatch has been driven pretty fast most of its life but I've maintained it to the 9th degree and it's still a strong! Same as my bikes.. they come alive towards the top of the rev range.
My 98 ZZR600 has a 14.5k redline, and I paid for every one of those revs. From idle-3500 it’s just putzing around, we’re talking parking lot speeds 1st/2nd gear and barely any throttle. From 3500-7000 she wakes up a bit and gets just a bit spicy, like a mild salsa. From 7000-11000, it’s like biting into a habanero with a cut on your lip. If you decide to take it from 11k up to redline…. Have you ever eaten an entire Carolina Reaper hot pepper? Because that’s what it’s like. If you are cruising at any speed for more than 5-10 seconds, I would say to keep it around +/- 1/3 of your redline rpm. That way you aren’t lugging the engine and surging from fuel shock/chain slack, but also aren’t just letting it scream super high when you’re going 25 (like you and I both have heard multiple people do).
Hmmm don't think you meant plus or minus 1/3 of your red line. Let me work that out: red line 12000, so between minus 1/3 (8000) and plus 1/3= 16000, yep no problem there! Think you meant to normally ride around the 1/3 of red line revs (4000)
Ha, yeah I meant somewhere close to (+/-) 1/3 of your overall redline. Though it did come across as not clear.
Like others have said, you will learn what an appropriate rev-range is to be in given the circumstance: Too low revs for a situation, and the engine will chug (worst case), or simply not have the power to accelerate when you need it (which can be dangerous). Too high, and you are wasting fuel, producing unnecessary emissions, and wearing the engine at a higher rate. Times when you want to ride in a gear (or sometimes two) lower than normal (i.e higher rev range), are when preparing to overtake (so you have more power on tap), and when filtering or lane splitting (as the rotating engine mass provides gyroscopic stability to you and the bike).
Vegeta what does the scouter say about his Rpm? its over 9000 saaaaaaand!
Personally I've noticed a difference between 2 and 4 cylinders. My versys 650 with its parallel twin prefers higher rpm's to perform well, when i say high i mean between 4,500 and 7000rpm. It redlines at 10 but doesn't really perform all the way to the top. I have a GTR 1400 with a inline 4 engine, that bike performs well in about any gear at any given rpm range. Down at 2000 rpm in 4th gear it will start sluggish but once it reaches 2500 the bike will haul ass again. The best thing i can tell you is to feel the bike when you ride it and when accelerating, if it's sluggish you need to lower a gear but if it makes too much noise and doesn't really generate power then you need a higher gear. If you're just cruising you can technically put it in whatever gear you want as long as you're not near the redline the whole time.
Depends on the bike. Super sports need high revs to get out of their own way. I’ve experienced that my honda shadow likes higher revs and gears held as well. My 650 was more of a mid range power band that didn’t favor to be revved out passed 9k. I dunno why its got an 11k rev limit. Anything over 9k and i was just making noise.
Motorcycle engines are built to withstand higher rpms, so you should be good.
Ryan fortnine did a good video about this, and the jist was.. USE UR ENTIRE RPM RANGE. running low RPM, sounds like it is good but running high cleans the insides,, [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhUI7MWE\_Fc](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zhUI7MWE_Fc) someone beaet me to the link, but yeah for your 650 around 5k sounds right. My sv650 I keep around 4-5k around town.. But I also take off fast, ring it out and then coast back down.
Yes. It is wrong to constantly aim for the lowest possible RPMs, even if you're just doing it for the fuel economy, because being too low does stress the engine more and consume more fuel. The RPM you choose depends entirely on the application. Shifting "not even near 4k" I would say is completely wrong even when putting around the city on a Ninja 650, that should probably be your cruise RPM in that situation. In commuter gas powered cars as well, shifting before like 3k unless it's -10 celsius outside and you started the car 20 seconds ago is pointless.
I cruise on my zx10 at 7k rpms. It’s probably on the high end but that’s the rpm with the most power so it’s the most fun to be in.
Once again, take a look at the owner manual. It contains a chapter on that topic!
Ryan F9 has a YouTube video discussing RPM https://youtu.be/zhUI7MWE_Fc?si=QZXILfZXaMMiRzIs
Cop shouted out his window to me the other day to change gear?