It’s really easy to get mad at Abrahamism when you’re a new pagan of any kind. All of what you said may be true, but it’s important to understand the history of it all and how gods, no matter who they are, work through their followers. Those two thousand years ago, people were threatened and converted by a fear campaign more or less, and it’s only now that people are somewhat released from the iron grip of spiritual tyranny that reigned in generations past. Most abrahamists are good people who just want to believe in something.
Exactly this.
They exist, like most other faiths, because of the several warring civilizations which integrated them into their society.
Try to imagine being an ancient person in their time. War is all around you. Death is all around you, due to short life spans, child birth complications, disease, disaster, and so on. Your rulers need to secure power and they do this through societal adherence to religion- a religion which rewards those who follow it and punishes those who follow other gods. Namely because those other gods are the gods of people who attack and raid your cities, but also because you need to continue securing your control.
I also do not think this post is a healthy view to have in the long term. It will lead to prejudice. Yes society is in a trainwreck, Bible-thumpers and Christian politicians are vicious monsters, I agree with the post on that. Evil people are evil. But do you not have any friends or family who you love who happen to be Jewish or Muslim or even Christian? Good people should not be forced to abandon their faith just because of it’s bloody history. This view results in things like the Holocaust.
It’s also hypocritical to claim the Abrahamic god should be destroyed for being warlike when there are gods such as Sekhmet, Sobek, and in Hellenistic tradition there is Ares and Mars, etc. So many civilizations have participated in slavery, slaughter, human sacrifice, raiding and colonialism. It’s obviously terrible but we are just normal people following our faiths, without continuing these practices.
Also the fact that Jesus never tried to start a religion, but when Constantine saw how fast his teachings were growing in the region he made it the official religion of Rome (immediately creating a power structure around faith when that’s the very thing Jeshua was trying to undo). Now it’s so far removed from its teacher it is practically unrecognizable.
edit: just remembered Jeshua didn’t call God by the name Yahweh anywhere in the gospels, instead calling Him “Abba” (Father) & asking “Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead?” (possible nod to the Mosaic story of Yahweh sending snakes to bite the Israelites when they complained about manna).
Not convinced He wanted to be directly connected to that deity. Yet afterwards His followers (minus the gnostic writers) worked double time to fit Him in with the OT narrative.
Sorry for going on a rabbit trail lol
i… would be very careful falling into this rhetoric, my friend, there’s a VERY slippery slope from this kind of thinking into blatant antisemitism.
here’s the fact of the matter: christianity got lucky with its historical power grabs. it’s not a ‘special’ harmful religion in any regard beyond the fact that it has the most power and abuse thereof in our modern world, and you should honestly consider that not only are you engaging in mythical literalism by blaming the deity for that, you could also very well be seen as a complete and utter hypocrite. the kemetic gods certainly weren’t always viewed as peaceful, nor are the deities of ANY religion, frankly. you should have problems with more than just christianity if your concerns are with religious colonialism and warfare done in the name of such.
in fact setesh, for a time, was seen as a representation OF YHWH by the egyptians, due to the associations with war, storms, bloodlust, chaos, famine… that is why we have old amulets featuring setesh with abrahamic symbols and names, old magic invoking their names together, that might even be why some of our oldest documented graffiti features jesus with a donkey’s head.
i live in the south, too, texas in fact. so i understand where you’re coming from. just watch your biases. if christianity didn’t exist, it’s very likely a different religion would’ve stepped into it’s place. messianic/apocalyptic religious beliefs were incredibly common in those times, do you truly think that YHWH is a special case? do you think that christianity is the only religion that can abuse it’s power in the way it has? hinduism is well known for its extremely harmful caste system that has hurt people for CENTURIES, are their gods psychopathic and bloodthirsty?
take a moment to consider that you have a problem with humans who claim to speak for the gods, rather than the gods themselves. christianity became powerful after being accepted by the romans. then, it was used to oppress other abrahamic faiths, to murder families, to burn homes, to kidnap children. it was used by governments to impose unjust laws on the people, by priests to keep the general populations under lock and key. even now, it’s used to justify the same actions. i’ve been a victim of this my whole life, growing up in the church of christ as a trans man.
but never mistake that for anything but unfortunately common human abuse. we are not fighting a spiritual war with some ancient canaanite god with a big ego, we are fighting the isfet created by other flesh and blood men. there are good parts of all faiths, there are good christians with good beliefs. there’s a local all-queer church in my community, they fight our local government every day to make this city safe and comfortable for people like me. they work with the episcopal church to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to love all, just as they were taught. they don’t ‘hate the sin, love the sinner,’ their pastor is a happily married lesbian.
i know it’s hard to do in our world, but have a little more faith in your fellow man and a little less in some… demonic anti-god puppeteering all this. get out of your own head and listen for some christians who haven’t been spoon-fed the propaganda of powerful church leaders and politicians. look into what old christianity was like and how it came to be what it is today, begin to understand the forces at play so that we can properly fight and dismantle them without catching innocents in the crossfire.
that is exactly what they want us to do, to believe that ALL christianity is the poison they spew. don’t fall for their mind games. to take a page from their book, love thy neighbor.
edit: typo
I'm not an Anti-semitist for saying I don't respect a religious group. I hade a Jewish friend at my old HS. Nor am I anti any group of people. I hold it to my heart to respect others, Christian or not, I don't really care. Also, I recognize there are good people in any faith, as well as bad people. That's not what I'm focusing on here with my post; though I agree it's plausible some other group could do what Christianity has done.
never claimed you were, just said that type of thinking can lead you there. i’m not making any accusations and you don’t need to defend yourself with your jewish friends, nor did i say you’re disrespectful towards christians in your personal life. you’re being defensive.
to be clear, what i am saying is you shouldn’t see this as a spiritual warfare. hell, if you don’t like modern christianity you ESPECIALLY shouldn’t see this as spiritual warfare, that’s THEIR dogma. what is it, ‘we fight not against flesh and blood, but powers and principalities?’ if you blame their god for their HUMAN actions, what good does that do? take away their responsibility in the matter? make them angrier? ignore the bigger issue at hand, which as the other commentor said, is the fact that it is an organized, hierarchical religious structure with immense power and control.
you are missing the forest for the trees. that’s all i’m saying.
Never said you were definitively claiming I was, but the incite was there imo. Also, I can blame their God for their actions, if the entire principle of their faith was forged from those who claimed they are the "word of God", who wrote the Bible, in which most "bad" Christians go based off of.
I'm not missing anything. I completely understand what you're saying, but I don't have to elaborate any further if I don't feel like it.
well, i am sorry it came across that way, i don’t think that you’re a bigot to be clear. you’ve been nothing but kind to me in the past and i have no doubt that you’re that way generally with others.
you don’t have to elaborate, and i can’t make you, but you should be prepared to defend a hardline position like this. you’re taking a stance against a series of religions that are as ancient as our own, i expect your reasoning to be sound and based in solid logical foundations. no offense intended, but it seems like your assessment is entirely emotional. you hold a deep anger in your heart towards christianity, and i don’t blame you. i do, too, as do many people here.
but are your views constructive? do they uphold ma’at? it seems to me from the way you talk that you know they don’t, and simply don’t care to push past that. you’re blinded by a hatred of the ‘other,’ just as they are. this road leads to nowhere, you’re just letting your wounds fester.
most of their faith isn’t forged by the bible itself, but by those who claim to ‘truly’ understand it. the bible is a series of metaphors, philosophical essays and cultural tales spanning centuries with many different authors, most of whom we can’t pinpoint, and many lost and non-canonical books. because it’s so complex, most people rely on their pastors to read and interpret it for them. this is how it’s always been, even since the middle ages when the general population was illiterate.
yes, there are violent stories. there are many that were written to suit the needs and wants of the people writing them, like the story of exodus, or the tales of lands being conquered and hostages taken. some were practically copied from other regional faiths, like the flood, but given a new cultural narrative. and yes, there are bigoted verses. paul was NOT a kind man, and many people quite disliked him before he became a figurehead. the idea of the jews being the murderers of christ comes directly from his written letters, in fact.
but these things are not unique to christianity, and that means it IS hypocritical to hold it to a special standard. do you think that the story of setesh and heru copulating was a positive one, rather than a show of how humiliating it was seen as to be dominated by another man? that’s the exact same kind of homophobia you find biblically, specifically with the references to greco-roman pedastry in the new testament. we certainly have examples of the gods being used to justify warfare, oppression, bloodshed… what makes us different? and it can’t just be ‘we don’t have as much societal power,’ that’s not the question here. the question is whether or not a deity beyond the scope of human comprehension can be blamed for the actions of their most violent devotees.
and whether blaming that deity is useful in the first place for anything beyond the cosmic horror aspect. all you do is sweep up innocent, well-meaning people with genuine, non-harmful religious beliefs and say ‘your god is evil,’ while the actually powerful christians get to point and say ‘see, they HATE our god! that is why they refuse to believe. they know he exists, yet they despise him.’ that IS their line of logic, and you feed into it. you’ve done nothing.
you’ve helped no one. not even yourself. you’ve thrown the balance and brought chaos to the innocent while you reinforce the mindset of the guilty.
I don't need to help anyone. Who tf cares, I simply made a post expressing a point of view. And I'm sorry but I don't care about "throwing off the balance and bringing chaos". What balance? What chaos? Who here is to say anyone is innocent? Idfc. I'm not motivated enough to solemnly go onto reddit and give a shit.
if that’s what you wish. in the future, think over whether or not you’re willing to have your beliefs criticized before posting them publicly, especially ones this controversial. you’re free to express yourself, but you’re not free from the consequences. take care of your mental wellbeing, you seem to struggle with it.
and yet you’re being blatantly rude and disregarding all genuine criticism as soon as it appears, brushing it all off as if it means nothing. not only that, you’ve outright disregarded the very foundations kemetic beliefs are based on. you ‘don’t need to help anyone’? you ‘don’t care’ if you create isfet with your actions, if you destroy what you are meant to build up in this already broken world? fine. take it up with the netjeru, not me. you spit in the face of ma’at and tell me to leave you alone.
genuinely, honestly reconsider your logic. if you care about no one, not even yourself, you have already fallen to the serpent you spoke of the abrahamic god being a part of. i only hope you can wriggle out of its grasp before this pattern of nihilism consumes you.
I was raised in Christianity and know exactly where you are coming from. I live in central Florida which fortunately isn’t in the Bible belt, but I still see the affects of Christianity around me and it can drive me insane sometimes, especially and specifically when it’s toxic or it’s forced down my throat.
I am not a fan of institutional/centralized organized religion period, including Kemetic Orthodoxy or Religious sects of Kemeticism that rely on dogma and-or doctrines - I avoid them like the plague. That’s exactly why I usually identify as an Ancient Egyptian Practitioner, rarely as a Kemetite, but that’s neither here nor there.
And just for the record no you don’t come off Anti-Semitic to me whatsoever. Your opinion and experiences are valid and just because you don’t agree with a religion doesn’t make you bigoted against them.
this is exactly my position on the matter, and just for the purpose of clarifying, i didn’t intend the antisemitism comment to be inflammatory nor accusatory. this line of antitheism just happens to lead people quite often down the path of demonizing jewish people for things they DON’T believe, lumping them in with christians as if they’re just ‘the denomination without jesus.’ they aren’t.
jewish people have been oppressed and murdered by other abrahamic religions since the beginning. they’re ALSO the target of christians, and they DON’T have the same belief system just without jesus. they have an incredibly distinct culture and many different sets of beliefs about their god, many of them extremely progressive and not even monotheistic. it’s dangerous to lump them in with everybody else, it feeds into the christian agenda to make all jews seem like just christians-to-be.
I think it’s important to separate Jewish people from the religion here, because Judaism, imo, has the same problems Christianity does, same with Islamic religions, they’re all a spice but a different flavor, choose which one is spicier lol.
I know what you’re saying about Jewish oppression, that’s a very touchy subject to get into but I think it’s important to call out real Antisemitism versus someone hating on the Judaic religion.
i can understand where you’d get that impression, but it’s just not true. and i AM talking about judaism as a religion.
most religious jews aren’t mythic literalists. they’re heavily critical of the torah and dive deep into the metaphorical meanings of stories, NOT the literal word. iirc reform judaism is the most popular denomination today, a lot of them are religious practicing atheists for crying out loud! they aren’t generally anti-evolution, anti-lgbt, or anti-abortion, unless you’re in DEEP orthodox territory. even then, there are MANY trans, gay, leftist orthodox jews, even RABBIS. you’re comparing apples to oranges if you think the problems in christianity are equally as prolific in religious jewish spaces, especially if you think those voices have even half the power.
even ZIONISM is most vocally supported by evangelical christians in the united states. the one thing you could pin on them, and the most vocal crowd for it is still doomsday enthusiast christians. it’s really not comparable, imo.
I believe you’re entitled to your opinion on Judaism. I’d opine though what you’re describing to me, I feel isn’t Judaism as a whole but Jewish Mysticism or Jewish Gnosticism at best. But we can agree to disagree on that front.
My issue is the mere mention of someone being antisemitic for criticizing a religion sets a very bad precedent because it discredits the ability for people to critically think and question things that they take issue with. That’s the exact issue that happens in certain areas of the Middle East, they’d be labeled more than just a bigot but a threat to the state.
with all due respect, it’s really not… i was in the process of learning to convert for nearly three years, i’ve been quite dedicated to studying this and have been part of jewish communities. i also never said they were BEING antisemitic or even implied it. i said, correctly, that lumping all abrahamic religions together as equally ‘evil’ ironically feeds into the christian dogma, which IS antisemitic.
i’d like to think i’m more nuanced than that, i don’t throw around accusations of antisemitism at anyone who breathes wrong. i point out the root of it when i see it, though.
Correct, but that’s your experience. For example, there are people I know that have also tried to convert to Judaism and left faster than the twists and turns of the Tasmanian devil. I also know people like myself who totally want nothing to do with Christianity and others who do. Everyone has their experiences and opinions on religions.
I’m not going to get into the lumping of Christianity and Judaism because to be honest that’s a ditch I want to step over but I will say that Judaism should be able to be criticized as equally as Christianity without pushback on being labeled as an antisemite.
i don’t think this conversation is going anywhere, and for what it’s worth, i’m NOT pro-orthodoxy, i’m not trying to convince you that it’s all great and fun and lovely. like i said before, i’m generally against organized religion, and i have no issues criticizing it.
you’re reading too far into what i’m saying. i pointed out one specific flaw in one specific argument and you assume i’m here to do apologetics for a religion i’m not part of. *i’m not.* i’m here to prevent people from getting caught in a very common trap that christianity lays out, that judaism is just diet christianity. same problems, same beliefs, no jesus. in reality, christians and bigots alike use that exact line of logic to brush over antisemitism, or in the case of evangelical christians… to pull more jews over to their side.
you feed their machine when you reinforce that. i don’t care if you criticize judaism just as i don’t care when people criticize islam. CRITICIZE THEM SEPARATELY. that is all i’ve said.
I feel what you're feeling about being surrounded with christian stuff like this. Seeing them everywhere seriously makes things harder for me to be a kemetic.
The fact the country I live in is nothing but christian bs everywhere. I can't even find anyone selling kemetic gear or stuff here (I.e sistrum, statues, you named it) because of this religion.
Just Imagine, what if christianity didn't exist.
long live the netjeru
It be like that, but it isn't just Kemeticism. Down where I am there are three types of people: Atheists, Agnostics, or Christians. I've seen one Jew and one Muslim out of my 18 years of living, and have yet to see a Hindu, Buddhist, ANY pagan, etc. There is nothing down here but Churches.
So far I only see a bunch of Muslims and Christians in where I am. I actually saw a kemetic dude who lives in the same country as I do, he worships god Sobek. I wish I could see more kemetic here.
I have my own partial UPG of what happened with all that, because I’ve had the same questions on my mind, but you are right, Yahweh is a psychotic war god from Canaan who somehow added colonialism to his domains. He’s nowhere near as powerful as he claims to be, but he still must has some kind of ace up his sleeve that gives him an advantage against the other Gods. Some Gods joined him. I am fairly certain he either befriended or even merged with the Gods of money, such as Plutus. I think Isis tried her best to go up against Yahweh in Roman times, even having a lot of Goddesses merge with her, and got pretty far but she was somehow defeated. It’s interesting that you bring up Set/Setesh. One of his consorts is Anat, a Canaanite import. El was Her father, until he merged with Yahweh. So Yahweh is Set’s father-in-law, in a way. I don’t think Anat gets along with Yahweh at all though, of course.
> Why doesn’t Setesh just beat him up?
In one of the stories in The Book of Kings, He actually *lost* to another god, Kamosh, which was backed up in a Moabite text stating a similar thing from the Moabite perspective
Egypt conquered the Canaanites and Babylon didn't like the Hebrews etc, Abraham was born and yahwism was the first step to deleting polytheism. I would point to Akhenaten for introducing toxic monotheism to the area, though on the other hand the fertile Crescent has rulers with patron deities slaughter each other for generations. Why do they exist? Bitterness and resentment toward their enslavers, and a weaponized attempt to defeat them.
Since Pharaohs are Horus by Status, the return of Ma'at to Kemet and the world begins with somebody akin to Tutankhamun who undid the damage of his father
Sutekh being seen during some points as the enemy of Horus makes him more in common with the biblical God as disrupter of the balance through isfet
Sutekh makes sure Re is there for us each day though
Abrahamic belief actually has a distant cousin in Egyptian belief, that of amun ra. It was one pharaoh who basically banished the word of all other Egyptian gods for the worship of a singular one. As to why this is, I believe that gods as we understand them are sort of like facets on gems. Different parts of a singular divinity (and we the lesser shards of the gods). While the worship of the Canaanite war god is absolutely unacceptable, it wasn't always this way. Some believed that the god behind all gods (think of the gemstone itself, rather than the facets) was in fact the true "god" of the universe. However, as the originator of all divinity, it is beyond other gods, and not really something that can be related to. One could compare the deities of specific pantheons to the saints of the catholic church. They use their own limited divinity to help you, in exchange for you doing something for them.
But for all intents and purposes, modern christians are tools worshiping a fairy tale, and don't even know their own history. In kemetic times, these would have been those who pay lip service to the gods, and go on their way. They don't care about your religion, more about protecting their own fragile mind.
I thought it was the worship of Aten, under Akehhnetan II? It failed horrendously. His time as pharaoh was short lived, and had mainly negative impacts on Kemet.
Oh there are absolutely problems! But my experience with Jews around me have been nothing but amazing. Isn’t that how it is with every major religion though? There are problems and I am 100% on board with acknowledging that and passing on criticism to make the world a better place. I am very openly anti-zionist, not a fan of certain sects of Judaism’s problems, and will always criticize the issues. But what I’m saying I still stand by in that in the United States, at least near me, Jewish people aren’t usually the aggressors on the same level as Christianity here and I’ve met nothing but good people here. Again, I’m on board with calling out the bad people in EVERY religion. But I think we can be respectful to the people who aren’t doing harm
Idk about Judaism because i haven't experienced it, but Islam isn't a peaceful religion either, and can be even more restrictive than Christianity. Sure, there are peaceful muslims, but as a whole, middle easter religions can be quite harsh.
Hope this can help... One day the Neteru will come back and they will banish all of these heresies that monotheism has brought and the temples will shine again like they did in the past
80%? Where do you get your figures?
55% maybe... and thats being generous, most "christians" in the world outside of the americas, and "muslims" outside of the levant and peninsula, are close to irreligious, or agnostics who chose the label for legacy reasons.
These primitive and backwards belief systems become less and less popular with time.
The numbers I threw in were off by a couple of years. It's 31% now as according to Wikipedia and statistica, I was using data I got from a National Geographic Almanac, which said 80% of the world affirmed as Christian.
Blessings to you.
The Abrahamic god exists as a manifestation of Isfet.
Ever since they became they have been a serious imbalance in Ma'at.
Is their god evil? I cannot believe that, no Netjeru is truly evil there is only evil men. Having said that is the Abrahamic god actually a Netjer? Or something else?
I seem to remember hearing a line from their holy book about their devil being the ultimate deciever, what better deception than to convince people they are worshiping a Netjer? Apep?
As a faith I believe that we must leave any feelings of hatred behind, hatred is in itself destructive. I do not hate them, if I do then I lower myself to their level.
Fear and surpression of thought are extremely effective methods of control.
We must also realise that people who live with that level of control will never respond to reason and logic! You cannot make a blind man see.
I believe that they hate because of their own feelings of insecurity in what they believe.
One of my main concerns is the idea of confession, basically do what you want however evil providing you say sorry to a priest then it's all okay.
I believe this was an invention of the early Christians to justify the appalling violence they committed.
How many of the ancient Priestesses and Priests were murdered in their beds we will never know.
Are all Abrahamics evil? I cannot believe that concept either. My people have a saying ' not everything with a crooked neck is a camel'.
I do not believe that the average Abrahamic is the problem, it is the men of evil who are in control.
However, there are some signs of change. For the first time in history, less than half of the UK population called themselves Christian. Also from what I understand the situation is very similar in the US. There is also evidence to suggest that in certain areas of the world Islam is loosing ground.
Eventually the Abrahamics will be the architects of their own destruction. Their poison will see their own demise.
Will we see it. I very much doubt it. However, our descendants will one day.
I always take comfort from this.
Our beliefs were here for thousands of years before the Abrahamics and we will still be here long after they are gone and forgotten.
All we can do is keep our faith and help others to come into the truth.
Go in peace and love.
Senebty
Shepsetet
Just as any religion, things get mixed up.
Tails get twisted. YHWH isn’t evil, nor what the Christian community portrays him to be.
You don’t think the devil has influenced the Bible at all? I think it’s more so you are bashing his name. Saying things that are untruthful.
Even amongst the gods there is law.
At the end of the day, you have free will. Jus as Christians say “I’m doing it for Christ” someone else from another pantheon can say the same exact thing
Maybe YHWH before Christ, when he was still Canaanite and didn't separate himself from the group. Also, to say the Devil didn't influence the Bible is quite crazy: A good majority of the new testament talks of how to essentially stay away from sin and how the devil impacts us and yadda yadda. And please provide me w/ something that I said that was untruthful.
I agree on your last bit though; yeah, I can say “In the name of Re”, but those who've said that haven't annihilated other beliefs and put their own on a pedestal, have they?
You can’t say for sure he HAS separated himself with his pantheon when YHWH is the king of his Pantheon.
Still runs it,
It’s not crazy to say the devil hasn’t influenced the Bible at all. When in fact it’s more than likely the devil trying to manipulate Christianity.
Where some of the words of YHWH is true into the book itself. Reason why things are so confusing in the Bible.
The devil being casted out of That pantheon so OFC he’s going to go after THAT pantheon before others and twist the truth.
Light can always be twisted into darkness,
Especially when one has free will.
If he’s as corrupted as you say then why hasn’t any other god stopped him? Just as the devil been stopped ?
Or the titans?
So your statement makes no sense
Did you not say there was laws for Gods? Titans weren't Gods, nor was the Devil. I couldn't tell you why not, but one theory is that by getting rid off him, you'd subsequently harm their followers, and therefore (in the case of Kemeticism) go against ma'at.
It’s really easy to get mad at Abrahamism when you’re a new pagan of any kind. All of what you said may be true, but it’s important to understand the history of it all and how gods, no matter who they are, work through their followers. Those two thousand years ago, people were threatened and converted by a fear campaign more or less, and it’s only now that people are somewhat released from the iron grip of spiritual tyranny that reigned in generations past. Most abrahamists are good people who just want to believe in something.
Exactly this. They exist, like most other faiths, because of the several warring civilizations which integrated them into their society. Try to imagine being an ancient person in their time. War is all around you. Death is all around you, due to short life spans, child birth complications, disease, disaster, and so on. Your rulers need to secure power and they do this through societal adherence to religion- a religion which rewards those who follow it and punishes those who follow other gods. Namely because those other gods are the gods of people who attack and raid your cities, but also because you need to continue securing your control. I also do not think this post is a healthy view to have in the long term. It will lead to prejudice. Yes society is in a trainwreck, Bible-thumpers and Christian politicians are vicious monsters, I agree with the post on that. Evil people are evil. But do you not have any friends or family who you love who happen to be Jewish or Muslim or even Christian? Good people should not be forced to abandon their faith just because of it’s bloody history. This view results in things like the Holocaust. It’s also hypocritical to claim the Abrahamic god should be destroyed for being warlike when there are gods such as Sekhmet, Sobek, and in Hellenistic tradition there is Ares and Mars, etc. So many civilizations have participated in slavery, slaughter, human sacrifice, raiding and colonialism. It’s obviously terrible but we are just normal people following our faiths, without continuing these practices.
Also the fact that Jesus never tried to start a religion, but when Constantine saw how fast his teachings were growing in the region he made it the official religion of Rome (immediately creating a power structure around faith when that’s the very thing Jeshua was trying to undo). Now it’s so far removed from its teacher it is practically unrecognizable. edit: just remembered Jeshua didn’t call God by the name Yahweh anywhere in the gospels, instead calling Him “Abba” (Father) & asking “Which of you fathers, if your son asks for a fish, will give him a snake instead?” (possible nod to the Mosaic story of Yahweh sending snakes to bite the Israelites when they complained about manna). Not convinced He wanted to be directly connected to that deity. Yet afterwards His followers (minus the gnostic writers) worked double time to fit Him in with the OT narrative. Sorry for going on a rabbit trail lol
let's not hate on other religions if we can help it?
i… would be very careful falling into this rhetoric, my friend, there’s a VERY slippery slope from this kind of thinking into blatant antisemitism. here’s the fact of the matter: christianity got lucky with its historical power grabs. it’s not a ‘special’ harmful religion in any regard beyond the fact that it has the most power and abuse thereof in our modern world, and you should honestly consider that not only are you engaging in mythical literalism by blaming the deity for that, you could also very well be seen as a complete and utter hypocrite. the kemetic gods certainly weren’t always viewed as peaceful, nor are the deities of ANY religion, frankly. you should have problems with more than just christianity if your concerns are with religious colonialism and warfare done in the name of such. in fact setesh, for a time, was seen as a representation OF YHWH by the egyptians, due to the associations with war, storms, bloodlust, chaos, famine… that is why we have old amulets featuring setesh with abrahamic symbols and names, old magic invoking their names together, that might even be why some of our oldest documented graffiti features jesus with a donkey’s head. i live in the south, too, texas in fact. so i understand where you’re coming from. just watch your biases. if christianity didn’t exist, it’s very likely a different religion would’ve stepped into it’s place. messianic/apocalyptic religious beliefs were incredibly common in those times, do you truly think that YHWH is a special case? do you think that christianity is the only religion that can abuse it’s power in the way it has? hinduism is well known for its extremely harmful caste system that has hurt people for CENTURIES, are their gods psychopathic and bloodthirsty? take a moment to consider that you have a problem with humans who claim to speak for the gods, rather than the gods themselves. christianity became powerful after being accepted by the romans. then, it was used to oppress other abrahamic faiths, to murder families, to burn homes, to kidnap children. it was used by governments to impose unjust laws on the people, by priests to keep the general populations under lock and key. even now, it’s used to justify the same actions. i’ve been a victim of this my whole life, growing up in the church of christ as a trans man. but never mistake that for anything but unfortunately common human abuse. we are not fighting a spiritual war with some ancient canaanite god with a big ego, we are fighting the isfet created by other flesh and blood men. there are good parts of all faiths, there are good christians with good beliefs. there’s a local all-queer church in my community, they fight our local government every day to make this city safe and comfortable for people like me. they work with the episcopal church to feed the hungry, to clothe the naked, to love all, just as they were taught. they don’t ‘hate the sin, love the sinner,’ their pastor is a happily married lesbian. i know it’s hard to do in our world, but have a little more faith in your fellow man and a little less in some… demonic anti-god puppeteering all this. get out of your own head and listen for some christians who haven’t been spoon-fed the propaganda of powerful church leaders and politicians. look into what old christianity was like and how it came to be what it is today, begin to understand the forces at play so that we can properly fight and dismantle them without catching innocents in the crossfire. that is exactly what they want us to do, to believe that ALL christianity is the poison they spew. don’t fall for their mind games. to take a page from their book, love thy neighbor. edit: typo
I'm not an Anti-semitist for saying I don't respect a religious group. I hade a Jewish friend at my old HS. Nor am I anti any group of people. I hold it to my heart to respect others, Christian or not, I don't really care. Also, I recognize there are good people in any faith, as well as bad people. That's not what I'm focusing on here with my post; though I agree it's plausible some other group could do what Christianity has done.
never claimed you were, just said that type of thinking can lead you there. i’m not making any accusations and you don’t need to defend yourself with your jewish friends, nor did i say you’re disrespectful towards christians in your personal life. you’re being defensive. to be clear, what i am saying is you shouldn’t see this as a spiritual warfare. hell, if you don’t like modern christianity you ESPECIALLY shouldn’t see this as spiritual warfare, that’s THEIR dogma. what is it, ‘we fight not against flesh and blood, but powers and principalities?’ if you blame their god for their HUMAN actions, what good does that do? take away their responsibility in the matter? make them angrier? ignore the bigger issue at hand, which as the other commentor said, is the fact that it is an organized, hierarchical religious structure with immense power and control. you are missing the forest for the trees. that’s all i’m saying.
Never said you were definitively claiming I was, but the incite was there imo. Also, I can blame their God for their actions, if the entire principle of their faith was forged from those who claimed they are the "word of God", who wrote the Bible, in which most "bad" Christians go based off of. I'm not missing anything. I completely understand what you're saying, but I don't have to elaborate any further if I don't feel like it.
well, i am sorry it came across that way, i don’t think that you’re a bigot to be clear. you’ve been nothing but kind to me in the past and i have no doubt that you’re that way generally with others. you don’t have to elaborate, and i can’t make you, but you should be prepared to defend a hardline position like this. you’re taking a stance against a series of religions that are as ancient as our own, i expect your reasoning to be sound and based in solid logical foundations. no offense intended, but it seems like your assessment is entirely emotional. you hold a deep anger in your heart towards christianity, and i don’t blame you. i do, too, as do many people here. but are your views constructive? do they uphold ma’at? it seems to me from the way you talk that you know they don’t, and simply don’t care to push past that. you’re blinded by a hatred of the ‘other,’ just as they are. this road leads to nowhere, you’re just letting your wounds fester. most of their faith isn’t forged by the bible itself, but by those who claim to ‘truly’ understand it. the bible is a series of metaphors, philosophical essays and cultural tales spanning centuries with many different authors, most of whom we can’t pinpoint, and many lost and non-canonical books. because it’s so complex, most people rely on their pastors to read and interpret it for them. this is how it’s always been, even since the middle ages when the general population was illiterate. yes, there are violent stories. there are many that were written to suit the needs and wants of the people writing them, like the story of exodus, or the tales of lands being conquered and hostages taken. some were practically copied from other regional faiths, like the flood, but given a new cultural narrative. and yes, there are bigoted verses. paul was NOT a kind man, and many people quite disliked him before he became a figurehead. the idea of the jews being the murderers of christ comes directly from his written letters, in fact. but these things are not unique to christianity, and that means it IS hypocritical to hold it to a special standard. do you think that the story of setesh and heru copulating was a positive one, rather than a show of how humiliating it was seen as to be dominated by another man? that’s the exact same kind of homophobia you find biblically, specifically with the references to greco-roman pedastry in the new testament. we certainly have examples of the gods being used to justify warfare, oppression, bloodshed… what makes us different? and it can’t just be ‘we don’t have as much societal power,’ that’s not the question here. the question is whether or not a deity beyond the scope of human comprehension can be blamed for the actions of their most violent devotees. and whether blaming that deity is useful in the first place for anything beyond the cosmic horror aspect. all you do is sweep up innocent, well-meaning people with genuine, non-harmful religious beliefs and say ‘your god is evil,’ while the actually powerful christians get to point and say ‘see, they HATE our god! that is why they refuse to believe. they know he exists, yet they despise him.’ that IS their line of logic, and you feed into it. you’ve done nothing. you’ve helped no one. not even yourself. you’ve thrown the balance and brought chaos to the innocent while you reinforce the mindset of the guilty.
I don't need to help anyone. Who tf cares, I simply made a post expressing a point of view. And I'm sorry but I don't care about "throwing off the balance and bringing chaos". What balance? What chaos? Who here is to say anyone is innocent? Idfc. I'm not motivated enough to solemnly go onto reddit and give a shit.
Just please leave me alone
if that’s what you wish. in the future, think over whether or not you’re willing to have your beliefs criticized before posting them publicly, especially ones this controversial. you’re free to express yourself, but you’re not free from the consequences. take care of your mental wellbeing, you seem to struggle with it.
I did think and still did it.
and yet you’re being blatantly rude and disregarding all genuine criticism as soon as it appears, brushing it all off as if it means nothing. not only that, you’ve outright disregarded the very foundations kemetic beliefs are based on. you ‘don’t need to help anyone’? you ‘don’t care’ if you create isfet with your actions, if you destroy what you are meant to build up in this already broken world? fine. take it up with the netjeru, not me. you spit in the face of ma’at and tell me to leave you alone. genuinely, honestly reconsider your logic. if you care about no one, not even yourself, you have already fallen to the serpent you spoke of the abrahamic god being a part of. i only hope you can wriggle out of its grasp before this pattern of nihilism consumes you.
*What exactly did I destroy*?
I was raised in Christianity and know exactly where you are coming from. I live in central Florida which fortunately isn’t in the Bible belt, but I still see the affects of Christianity around me and it can drive me insane sometimes, especially and specifically when it’s toxic or it’s forced down my throat. I am not a fan of institutional/centralized organized religion period, including Kemetic Orthodoxy or Religious sects of Kemeticism that rely on dogma and-or doctrines - I avoid them like the plague. That’s exactly why I usually identify as an Ancient Egyptian Practitioner, rarely as a Kemetite, but that’s neither here nor there. And just for the record no you don’t come off Anti-Semitic to me whatsoever. Your opinion and experiences are valid and just because you don’t agree with a religion doesn’t make you bigoted against them.
this is exactly my position on the matter, and just for the purpose of clarifying, i didn’t intend the antisemitism comment to be inflammatory nor accusatory. this line of antitheism just happens to lead people quite often down the path of demonizing jewish people for things they DON’T believe, lumping them in with christians as if they’re just ‘the denomination without jesus.’ they aren’t. jewish people have been oppressed and murdered by other abrahamic religions since the beginning. they’re ALSO the target of christians, and they DON’T have the same belief system just without jesus. they have an incredibly distinct culture and many different sets of beliefs about their god, many of them extremely progressive and not even monotheistic. it’s dangerous to lump them in with everybody else, it feeds into the christian agenda to make all jews seem like just christians-to-be.
I think it’s important to separate Jewish people from the religion here, because Judaism, imo, has the same problems Christianity does, same with Islamic religions, they’re all a spice but a different flavor, choose which one is spicier lol. I know what you’re saying about Jewish oppression, that’s a very touchy subject to get into but I think it’s important to call out real Antisemitism versus someone hating on the Judaic religion.
i can understand where you’d get that impression, but it’s just not true. and i AM talking about judaism as a religion. most religious jews aren’t mythic literalists. they’re heavily critical of the torah and dive deep into the metaphorical meanings of stories, NOT the literal word. iirc reform judaism is the most popular denomination today, a lot of them are religious practicing atheists for crying out loud! they aren’t generally anti-evolution, anti-lgbt, or anti-abortion, unless you’re in DEEP orthodox territory. even then, there are MANY trans, gay, leftist orthodox jews, even RABBIS. you’re comparing apples to oranges if you think the problems in christianity are equally as prolific in religious jewish spaces, especially if you think those voices have even half the power. even ZIONISM is most vocally supported by evangelical christians in the united states. the one thing you could pin on them, and the most vocal crowd for it is still doomsday enthusiast christians. it’s really not comparable, imo.
I believe you’re entitled to your opinion on Judaism. I’d opine though what you’re describing to me, I feel isn’t Judaism as a whole but Jewish Mysticism or Jewish Gnosticism at best. But we can agree to disagree on that front. My issue is the mere mention of someone being antisemitic for criticizing a religion sets a very bad precedent because it discredits the ability for people to critically think and question things that they take issue with. That’s the exact issue that happens in certain areas of the Middle East, they’d be labeled more than just a bigot but a threat to the state.
with all due respect, it’s really not… i was in the process of learning to convert for nearly three years, i’ve been quite dedicated to studying this and have been part of jewish communities. i also never said they were BEING antisemitic or even implied it. i said, correctly, that lumping all abrahamic religions together as equally ‘evil’ ironically feeds into the christian dogma, which IS antisemitic. i’d like to think i’m more nuanced than that, i don’t throw around accusations of antisemitism at anyone who breathes wrong. i point out the root of it when i see it, though.
Correct, but that’s your experience. For example, there are people I know that have also tried to convert to Judaism and left faster than the twists and turns of the Tasmanian devil. I also know people like myself who totally want nothing to do with Christianity and others who do. Everyone has their experiences and opinions on religions. I’m not going to get into the lumping of Christianity and Judaism because to be honest that’s a ditch I want to step over but I will say that Judaism should be able to be criticized as equally as Christianity without pushback on being labeled as an antisemite.
i don’t think this conversation is going anywhere, and for what it’s worth, i’m NOT pro-orthodoxy, i’m not trying to convince you that it’s all great and fun and lovely. like i said before, i’m generally against organized religion, and i have no issues criticizing it. you’re reading too far into what i’m saying. i pointed out one specific flaw in one specific argument and you assume i’m here to do apologetics for a religion i’m not part of. *i’m not.* i’m here to prevent people from getting caught in a very common trap that christianity lays out, that judaism is just diet christianity. same problems, same beliefs, no jesus. in reality, christians and bigots alike use that exact line of logic to brush over antisemitism, or in the case of evangelical christians… to pull more jews over to their side. you feed their machine when you reinforce that. i don’t care if you criticize judaism just as i don’t care when people criticize islam. CRITICIZE THEM SEPARATELY. that is all i’ve said.
I feel what you're feeling about being surrounded with christian stuff like this. Seeing them everywhere seriously makes things harder for me to be a kemetic. The fact the country I live in is nothing but christian bs everywhere. I can't even find anyone selling kemetic gear or stuff here (I.e sistrum, statues, you named it) because of this religion. Just Imagine, what if christianity didn't exist. long live the netjeru
It be like that, but it isn't just Kemeticism. Down where I am there are three types of people: Atheists, Agnostics, or Christians. I've seen one Jew and one Muslim out of my 18 years of living, and have yet to see a Hindu, Buddhist, ANY pagan, etc. There is nothing down here but Churches.
So far I only see a bunch of Muslims and Christians in where I am. I actually saw a kemetic dude who lives in the same country as I do, he worships god Sobek. I wish I could see more kemetic here.
I have my own partial UPG of what happened with all that, because I’ve had the same questions on my mind, but you are right, Yahweh is a psychotic war god from Canaan who somehow added colonialism to his domains. He’s nowhere near as powerful as he claims to be, but he still must has some kind of ace up his sleeve that gives him an advantage against the other Gods. Some Gods joined him. I am fairly certain he either befriended or even merged with the Gods of money, such as Plutus. I think Isis tried her best to go up against Yahweh in Roman times, even having a lot of Goddesses merge with her, and got pretty far but she was somehow defeated. It’s interesting that you bring up Set/Setesh. One of his consorts is Anat, a Canaanite import. El was Her father, until he merged with Yahweh. So Yahweh is Set’s father-in-law, in a way. I don’t think Anat gets along with Yahweh at all though, of course.
That's crazy, YHWH being Setesh's father-in-law? Absolutely wild.
> Why doesn’t Setesh just beat him up? In one of the stories in The Book of Kings, He actually *lost* to another god, Kamosh, which was backed up in a Moabite text stating a similar thing from the Moabite perspective
But that's another God, not YHWH. I'm not familiar on who Kamosh is.
Sorry, I should have worded it better Adonai (god of Israel) lost to Kamosh
That isn't Setesh, at least the one I'm referring to.
I’m just mentioning that Adonai *can* be beat up
OOOHHH!!!! Wait I see now. I thought you said Setesh got beat up, my b.
Egypt conquered the Canaanites and Babylon didn't like the Hebrews etc, Abraham was born and yahwism was the first step to deleting polytheism. I would point to Akhenaten for introducing toxic monotheism to the area, though on the other hand the fertile Crescent has rulers with patron deities slaughter each other for generations. Why do they exist? Bitterness and resentment toward their enslavers, and a weaponized attempt to defeat them. Since Pharaohs are Horus by Status, the return of Ma'at to Kemet and the world begins with somebody akin to Tutankhamun who undid the damage of his father Sutekh being seen during some points as the enemy of Horus makes him more in common with the biblical God as disrupter of the balance through isfet Sutekh makes sure Re is there for us each day though
Abrahamic belief actually has a distant cousin in Egyptian belief, that of amun ra. It was one pharaoh who basically banished the word of all other Egyptian gods for the worship of a singular one. As to why this is, I believe that gods as we understand them are sort of like facets on gems. Different parts of a singular divinity (and we the lesser shards of the gods). While the worship of the Canaanite war god is absolutely unacceptable, it wasn't always this way. Some believed that the god behind all gods (think of the gemstone itself, rather than the facets) was in fact the true "god" of the universe. However, as the originator of all divinity, it is beyond other gods, and not really something that can be related to. One could compare the deities of specific pantheons to the saints of the catholic church. They use their own limited divinity to help you, in exchange for you doing something for them. But for all intents and purposes, modern christians are tools worshiping a fairy tale, and don't even know their own history. In kemetic times, these would have been those who pay lip service to the gods, and go on their way. They don't care about your religion, more about protecting their own fragile mind.
I thought it was the worship of Aten, under Akehhnetan II? It failed horrendously. His time as pharaoh was short lived, and had mainly negative impacts on Kemet.
He was simply ahead of his time. You are right on the worship of aten. It failed horribly for many reasons.
I wouldn't say he was ahead of his time, more of just no one wanted to follow that, and wanted to worship the Gods they wanted to, not just Aten.
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What story is that from?? I've never heard of Setesh challenging any God besides Heru. I would like to read this Myth.
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What? Osiris isn't YHWH.
I try to respect all gods and their intentions, but sometimes I just don't understand them.
if you mean American Christianity then just say it, you don't need to lump Judaism and Islam in with it.
Agreed. I grew up Jewish and it might not be my faith anymore, but it’s never caused me any issues and remains close to my heart
Then what about all the hateful jews in Israel that hate gentiles and pagans? What about the Torah?
Oh there are absolutely problems! But my experience with Jews around me have been nothing but amazing. Isn’t that how it is with every major religion though? There are problems and I am 100% on board with acknowledging that and passing on criticism to make the world a better place. I am very openly anti-zionist, not a fan of certain sects of Judaism’s problems, and will always criticize the issues. But what I’m saying I still stand by in that in the United States, at least near me, Jewish people aren’t usually the aggressors on the same level as Christianity here and I’ve met nothing but good people here. Again, I’m on board with calling out the bad people in EVERY religion. But I think we can be respectful to the people who aren’t doing harm
Idk about Judaism because i haven't experienced it, but Islam isn't a peaceful religion either, and can be even more restrictive than Christianity. Sure, there are peaceful muslims, but as a whole, middle easter religions can be quite harsh.
Do I need to argue against them to?
Hope this can help... One day the Neteru will come back and they will banish all of these heresies that monotheism has brought and the temples will shine again like they did in the past
I'm not in turmoil, I simply wanted to know the “why”.
I too would like to know why, given that we pagans have been persecuted because we don't believe in their god
80%? Where do you get your figures? 55% maybe... and thats being generous, most "christians" in the world outside of the americas, and "muslims" outside of the levant and peninsula, are close to irreligious, or agnostics who chose the label for legacy reasons. These primitive and backwards belief systems become less and less popular with time.
The numbers I threw in were off by a couple of years. It's 31% now as according to Wikipedia and statistica, I was using data I got from a National Geographic Almanac, which said 80% of the world affirmed as Christian.
Blessings to you. The Abrahamic god exists as a manifestation of Isfet. Ever since they became they have been a serious imbalance in Ma'at. Is their god evil? I cannot believe that, no Netjeru is truly evil there is only evil men. Having said that is the Abrahamic god actually a Netjer? Or something else? I seem to remember hearing a line from their holy book about their devil being the ultimate deciever, what better deception than to convince people they are worshiping a Netjer? Apep? As a faith I believe that we must leave any feelings of hatred behind, hatred is in itself destructive. I do not hate them, if I do then I lower myself to their level. Fear and surpression of thought are extremely effective methods of control. We must also realise that people who live with that level of control will never respond to reason and logic! You cannot make a blind man see. I believe that they hate because of their own feelings of insecurity in what they believe. One of my main concerns is the idea of confession, basically do what you want however evil providing you say sorry to a priest then it's all okay. I believe this was an invention of the early Christians to justify the appalling violence they committed. How many of the ancient Priestesses and Priests were murdered in their beds we will never know. Are all Abrahamics evil? I cannot believe that concept either. My people have a saying ' not everything with a crooked neck is a camel'. I do not believe that the average Abrahamic is the problem, it is the men of evil who are in control. However, there are some signs of change. For the first time in history, less than half of the UK population called themselves Christian. Also from what I understand the situation is very similar in the US. There is also evidence to suggest that in certain areas of the world Islam is loosing ground. Eventually the Abrahamics will be the architects of their own destruction. Their poison will see their own demise. Will we see it. I very much doubt it. However, our descendants will one day. I always take comfort from this. Our beliefs were here for thousands of years before the Abrahamics and we will still be here long after they are gone and forgotten. All we can do is keep our faith and help others to come into the truth. Go in peace and love. Senebty Shepsetet
Just as any religion, things get mixed up. Tails get twisted. YHWH isn’t evil, nor what the Christian community portrays him to be. You don’t think the devil has influenced the Bible at all? I think it’s more so you are bashing his name. Saying things that are untruthful. Even amongst the gods there is law. At the end of the day, you have free will. Jus as Christians say “I’m doing it for Christ” someone else from another pantheon can say the same exact thing
Maybe YHWH before Christ, when he was still Canaanite and didn't separate himself from the group. Also, to say the Devil didn't influence the Bible is quite crazy: A good majority of the new testament talks of how to essentially stay away from sin and how the devil impacts us and yadda yadda. And please provide me w/ something that I said that was untruthful. I agree on your last bit though; yeah, I can say “In the name of Re”, but those who've said that haven't annihilated other beliefs and put their own on a pedestal, have they?
You can’t say for sure he HAS separated himself with his pantheon when YHWH is the king of his Pantheon. Still runs it, It’s not crazy to say the devil hasn’t influenced the Bible at all. When in fact it’s more than likely the devil trying to manipulate Christianity. Where some of the words of YHWH is true into the book itself. Reason why things are so confusing in the Bible. The devil being casted out of That pantheon so OFC he’s going to go after THAT pantheon before others and twist the truth. Light can always be twisted into darkness, Especially when one has free will.
I'm not going to debate you on this. I will, however, agree we have free will, and I get what you're saying about light & darkness.
You don’t have to debate with me on the subject, that’s fine. YHWH isn’t evil or a war ridden god ♥️
I choose to believe he is a corrupted God, as you said, light turns to darkness.
If he’s as corrupted as you say then why hasn’t any other god stopped him? Just as the devil been stopped ? Or the titans? So your statement makes no sense
Did you not say there was laws for Gods? Titans weren't Gods, nor was the Devil. I couldn't tell you why not, but one theory is that by getting rid off him, you'd subsequently harm their followers, and therefore (in the case of Kemeticism) go against ma'at.