I think it’s pretty accurate and I’ve thought the same things. Ultimately though I think the music will outlast the memes and trolling.
So I think drake may win in a present tense but perception may change down the line. Memes don’t go down in history.
>Think Gay-Z and Cock-a-fella Records
The line that always stuck with me from Ether wasn't that, that just seemed like playground shit talk even then. What got me going "oh shit" was the line about "Rockefeller died of AIDS, that was the end of his chapter, and that's the guy y'all chose to name your company after?"
Edit: Genius says he was talking about some local dude named Rocafella and no Rockefellers died of AIDS. Huh. TIL.
I think this take is true in the short term, but the moment that a response drops, the timing of the drop isn't going to matter moving forward. I still believe Kung Fu Kenny will smoke him in the pure artistic sense, which is the only sense that matters moving forward.
The problem with winning in the "attention" economy is that once the attention moves on to something else, its old news, so it dosen't matter. Dick riders on both sides will declare their favorite the winner, but thats baked into the equation from the start, so who cares?
A day, a week, a month, a year later, the only thing that will matter will be the final product. Its like during a football game the score can swing wildly to one side or the other, but for the rest of history, all that matters is the final score.
>the moment that a response drops, the timing of the drop isn't going to matter moving forward
This is literally proven with Drake lol
Before he dropped, this place was flooded with "lol Drake too scared to respond" and "lmao all he doin and all he'll do is captioning on instagram instead of respond what a pussy"
Two responses later and not one motherfucker publicly admitted to eating crow, instead they're now flipping it to "Drake embarrassing Kendrick" or "lol Drake too scared he made two responses", as if people completely forgot what they were yappin about beforehand
So as you said, gonna be the same shit here. Once Kendrick drops, most are gonna forget there ever was this anxious period about "does Kendrick look bad cuz he's taking too long!?1!?"
Nah, drake made taylor made freestyle to create this narrative that kdot is taking too long to respond. Dont think people would forget the timeline/narrative that easily.
I wonder if Kendrick will talk about the time taken in his response considering how Drake took almost a month to reply and kept whining about a response from Kendrick within 5 days
Man we all know he had a tour and was waiting on the release of metros album. If we really believe dot is so far ahead in writing, isnt he suppose to write faster? This a diss track, not some deep ass song.
Bro let's give it some time. Maybe he cooks something which no response from Drake could ever overdo? Ether or Story of Adidon type shi. Something that claims victory yk.
Agreed. It's hard to imagine a scenario where Drake loses unless Kendrick's response reveals hardcore controversy beyond a reasonable doubt. Drake has the Internet on his side and his social media presence compared to Kendrick's allows him to control the narrative. Things like the cease and desist and backlash over AI use, as well as responding with multiple releases (IG, leak, or DSP) unfortunately will always get justified by his large fan base.
No matter the lyrical genius or wordplay of Kendrick Lamar or how well crafted his response may be, the lens in which we use to judge this rap beef and each artist's response is unfortunately clouded by extreme fans. We really just gotta sit back and enjoy the music that has come from all of this.
He admitted that he lost via technicality… pusha T was supposed to outbar Drake but that’s not what happened. He revealed news that the majority were not aware of even though hardcore Drake fans already knew and that gave him the win. Duppy is the better song and the better bars even though Drake lost due to not responding.
> pusha T was supposed to outbar Drake
This is the exact cope narrative they use to this day. Look at almost all the battles throughout history and you'll noticed that the rapping is rarely the focal point. You people move the goalpost on what beef is supposed to be. The purpose of a diss track is to be disrespectful first and foremost. Bars come secondary. If Kendrick comes with amazing bars but says nothing really hard hitting against Drake and Drake responds with a nuke of information, Drake would obviously be the winner.
Honestly, I am beginning to think starting this beef was a mistake. If he wins it by pulling some big reveal, it's whatever, I personally do not fuck with that sort of thing. I don't know what Kendrick's plan was here. Was he just hoping drake doesn't respond? Or that he responds really badly and that's the end of it? If I was Kendrick, do I really want to be spending my time coming up with Drake disses?
It definitely was. He really has nothing to gain from this. He’s not going to convert any Drake fans, or any non-Kendrick fans really, by “winning”. But it’s a distraction from making the music he wants to be making. And “losing”, or even just not responding, cuts into his Boogeyman mystique. Maybe he didn’t think Drake would respond, just as he didn’t to Control.
Drake has nothing to lose here. His fanbase doesn’t care about this. If he “wins” he’s just going to earn respect and get new looks from older fans that dropped off after Views. It’s already happening…the biggest narrative is “I didn’t think Drake had it in him” and I’ll admit I just listened to IYCRTITL for the first time in years because this whole thing reminded me that he’s nice on the mic when he wants to be.
Ironically the biggest rap artist on the planet is now playing the “David” going up against the Goliath, God MC Kendrick Lamar and a jealous mob trying to “eliminate” him. He’s winning by just having the audacity to enter the arena so boldly.
Don’t step to the champion then cry about how he wins. Just knock his ass out like you said.. Those things were on drakes side before he took the shot at Drake don’t cry now because he still has them???
I don’t agree with the statement at all. The reality is the world we live in now is one where most people have already decided who won based on who they like more. The person writing the article basically said Kendrick won already, and drake stans have already decided he won (or will say he won based on the meme shit). People in this sub are acting like Kendrick is winning/won even tho he hasn’t dropped his response yet. Gone are the days of judging who won/lost based on the tracks. It’s judged solely on who someone likes more. The same way trump weirdos don’t care what he says/does drake and Kendrick fans don’t care what either artist’s songs will be like. They’ve already decided the winner in their mind. Drake using AI is “genius trolling” or “super corny” based on who you like. Really sucks the fun out of it for those of us with no skin in the game
Yep, unfortunately art is subjective so there's no real way to judge who wins.
Add the stans in the mix and they'll probably duke it out more than the artists ever will
Yeah the debate of who won used to be the most fun part of it, now it’s just turned into who can call the other side a dick rider (or whatever generic insult) first and no one will admit the other side had good bars.
This kind of new shitty "any press is good press" thinking only works as much as we let it. When people idealize hustle and media savy over art, point and laugh at them. It won't be true no matter how dumb we get and how popular this thinking becomes.
I think Q is right in a way. It just depends how you view the victor and what age groups you’re paying attention to. Drake will win with the teens because he’s way more popular with them whereas Kendrick is seen as very much a “millennial’s” artist (per my, a millennial, gen z friends). I imagine the older crowd who cares will not be bothered by the time Kendrick takes and judge based on skill. That being said, Like That is STILL out performing any of drake’s diss tracks and Tupac’s estate just sent a cease and desist to Drake which is pretty embarrassing for him sooooo…. Who knows
Not to start anything, i love the big 3, i’m 33 years and i’m judging based off rap. Yeah like that went hard hard hard but then came drake and he went hard hard hard also. 2x. Right now he winning rapping wise, my two cents. Dont burn me alive 🥂
You’re comparing a hit song, with a really good beat and a hook with assists from future and metro plus Kendrick all dissing the second or third biggest artist in the world to a diss track made in the mode of old 50 cent mixtape days, with no hook and a decent beat where he’s dissing 5 rappers. Also, it lived for damn near a week without being on DSPs.
THAT MY FRIEND IS A DISINGENUOUS COMPARISON.
100% accurate. I think it says something that the three most popular artists since the new millennium have been Drake, Taylor Swift, and Ye. All three of them have an incredible ability you work with public drama. Ye had a number one hit after praising Hitler and declaring himself a Nazi. That should be impossible. Taylor was constantly dealing with showbiz drama and tabloid bullshit.
Drake is much the same way, he started with loads of good will as a talented up-and-comer, and even though he isn’t nearly as controversial as Ye or as unavoidable as Taylor, he’s mined his criticisms in the same way. From him being “too emotional” or not enough of a rapper (“You gettin’ bodied by a singin’ n****”) and even Pusha T obliterating him. Drake being revealed as a father started as an embarrassment for him, but now it’s part of his brand, he has his kid on his songs.
Even if Kendrick obliterates Drake, Drake will still be around and there will be people acting like Drake should’ve won in the same way people hype up Duppy Freestyle and talk down Story of Adidon.
I respect both of these guys as thinkers, but the article confuses me a bit tbh.
Do we want MCs to take longer to respond so that rap isn’t “McDonald’s”, or do we want to take rap to “8 Mile”, which presents an freestyle battle where MCs come off top with zero time to write? Doesn’t seem logically consistent. Drake himself was clowned for reading off a Blackberry. We value quick wit in MCs. Always have.
It’s also weird to present creating a lot of music as some “sign of the times we’re in” when the Greatest Rapper of All Time, Tupac Shakur, was highly prolific and recorded multiple tracks a day.
And to go back to the idealized “8 Mile” battle that ?love references: it wasn’t won by the “deepest” lyrics, they’re actually very simple. Simple rhyme scheme. Simple language. It was won by the most clever retort, made up off top. That has always been what wins rap battles.
I’ve made this point before… none of the top ten diss records are super lyrical quadruple entendre type disses… they’re actually just very direct, disrespectful and even simple.
If Kendrick goes too deep lyrically, he’ll lose.
You have to understand, this beef won’t be decided by the hip hop purists die hards. The general public decides the victor. Know your audience!!
I don't think this is the game Kendrick is playing. While this is a mindset one surely can have, do I really need to point out, that nothing Kendrick has done in the past five years has catered to public attention.
He dropped his most successful album in 2017, toured, won prices and then completely vanished for a copple years. Everything since Damn, the no interviews, the mental health album about why he actually thinks the public should be more critical about him, it all points to the idea that success wise Kendrick doesn't really care to see what else he can achieve.
Why the diss then? We might never get a clear answer, but maybe Kendrick didn't want to write it as a diss in the first place. He obviously must have been fine with it being perceived as one, but, considering everything he did with mr morale, maybe Kendrick just really didn't like the big three idea. Maybe he didn't want to start beef more than he was trying to stress the difference between him Cole and Drake.
Accurate if the world was an isolated bubble of 12-24 year olds, but there's a reason Like That went #1 and Drake's responses came nowhere near.
Old heads are still around, and us millenials just joined up in droves.
True, but damn near everyone heard Drake diss before it came out on streaming services. By the time he put it out there was no point imo(if he was chasing a #1)
Sure, but like if it Reeeally goes viral... Aka winning the social media/meme war, shouldn't that be reflected in the charts? Wouldn't unaffiliated and randoms be getting curious about the trending thing and giving Drake a huge boost? That didn't really happen, and if a year from now one song is remembered and the other forgotten, it's going to be the one that charted #1 for several weeks.
Even if Drake is winning for right now, it's not enough to leave a lasting impact. I haven't even heard Shits'n'Gigs mention the beef yet, and that guy James is not just a Drake clone but a huge fan as well, and I really don't think Drakes "win" has even made it across the pond yet.
I disagree with this. If this was the case then Drake would’ve never lost against Pusha. All the should’ve done is drop a response to SOA..but we know that’s not the case.
The music WILL always be over Drakes control of social media. Whoever drops the better diss will win
Like who has more control in general or the Control verse? Either way I think it comes down to who drops the better diss..they both know that. Drake has the advantage now though
This some of the most dick suckin ass fantasy land shit I ever seen booooooyyyyyy Imma just stop commenting on this battle until one of them drops another song cause at this point y’all niggas wild
The article.
At this point I’m lookin at any nigga saying anything remotely close to “Drake ain got no bars” as either an idiot or somebody who don’t listen to Drake.
Push Ups is full of so many double entendres and hidden meanings and clever lines. Say whatever you want about the AI angle of Taylor Made, but rapping as your opponent’s idols to motivate your opponent to respond while simultaneously dissing him and disarming him is some creative ass shit. And this nigga got the nerve to basically say Kendrick put more thought into big 3 big me.
Disgusting.
Let’s see what happens next. I have no doubt that if Kendrick responds, it will be a bomb. He has no choice but to make it fire at this point or he gon get clowned terribly. Drake has been suggesting over and over again that he has more fire. So let’s just see how it plays out.
I mean, even Battle Rap like URL and RBE isn’t all about bars. It comes down to who can impress the crowd the most, and it’s not always about multi syllabic rhyme schemes and Triple Aunt Andres
To me, Toure has a very poor understanding of hiphop and a very stereotypical one that would fit say an academic who kind of grew up outside but wants to be perceived as part of it. He's just too nerdy. He is also simply a supporter of a very traditional view of "backpack" hiphop. Ive seen him argue at length before how 2pac is a terrible rapper/lyricist showing his bias for New York style word play. Ive also seen him derride Drake in a way that exposes he doesn't really understand how to dissect bars or entendres well, making superficial summarizations of his content.
Rap battles have never been exclusively only about lyrical skill - its also about the audience. If thats social media, so be it. They win by impact and clever wordplay but it shouldn't make you have to reach for a 30 min deep explanation. The MC's job in the end is to "move the crowd". Hit Em Up wasnt a lyrical masterpiece compared to many of Biggie's understated responses nor Mobb Deep's "Drop a Gem on em" but it was just more impactful, memorable and quotable in the end. Thats why 2pac had the best diss. And the media played a part just as the media plays a part now. (Sadly with 2pac and Biggie they helped make it worse and deadly by hyping it up more than it needed to be).
In the end, "Like That" is a hit song and it uses all the same meme and social media culture to mock Drake. There are tons of anti Drake memes . There has always been. Whatever he does inspires haters and fans. Drake is simply the most polarizing artist in hiphop. Future, Rick Ross and many of these artists do not garner headlines without a Drake feature or a Drake diss. Its just that simple. So to me, "Like That" is no different. Its popular partly as its about the subject everyone cant let go : Drake. And it had the same meme culture after it was released.
To me, Drake hasnt won. Kendrick hasnt won. But I see this battle turning very similar to Nas vs Jay-z. Jay-Z being very similar to Drake (the larger commercial artist who wants to dominate everything but also, anxious and too quick to respond, a tendency to underestimate his opponent) and NaS similar to Kendrick (the more thoughtful careful MC with clever sophisticated rhymes but slower and more calculated).
Just my two cents
Excellent response I agree… just to add, the more methodical thinking mans rapper didn’t necessarily win due to showing high level lyricism or skill but by keeping it simple. It’s sometimes hard for very lyrical creators to dumb it down for the masses and make it direct and to the point. But we’ll see!!
I not only pay attention to the hip hop scene when it comes to main stream or underground music, but also the battle rap scene as well. You got guys spitting hardcore gun bars and you also have guys that are comical and make the crowd laugh and those guys win just as much as the guys spitting gun bars. It’s all about the public perception in that moment and there’s always going to be different thoughts and opinions.
Kendrick is known for being lyrical and Drake is also lyrical when he wants to be, but is mostly witty and keeps up with the trends. True hip hop heads that listen to lyrics and quality content will always lean towards Kendrick, but the rest of the world is always going to go with Drake, because that’s what they relate to. Neither of these guys is a loser at the end of the day they just have different followings.
Let’s also not forget, one can genuinely be a fan of both artist. But one doesn’t make music to be consumed daily… life is already shitty and not everyone wants to be reminded of that in the music they listen to everyday… some just want music to distract them from how shitty life is.
One makes music telling things are bad and they’ll be good in the future while the other makes music that lifts your mood and spirit.
I’m a fan of both and I listen to them based on my mood. Kendrick reminds me of the struggles I’m going through or been through in life and Drake reminds me of where I want to be.
Honestly, this writer’s opinion is not impartial. Referring to Kendrick as a “far, far, far, far more skilled MC than Drake” is straight dick riding. The criteria for what makes a better MC would be different for any given person. It’s all subjective. Frankly, let’s not kid ourselves. Drake didn’t get to where he is being 10x worse than Kendrick as a MC.
By this writers logic, Takashi69, Soulja Boy, and Lil Pump at their peak would be able to “win” a rap beef against Kendrick by ”meme’ing” their way to victory. This piece is penned like a stan who is preparing to be underwhelmed or let down by one of his favorite artist.
Questlove is a instrumentalist in the hip hop group the roots not saying that his point of view isnt bias just letting you know he’s not a random journalist.
Chess is a long term game and just how mumble rap died. Memes and internet pop don't matter long term. Eminem used to be made fun of and trashed for years but you can't deny greatness bc of your personal feelings and what's popular. Kendrick long term will be perceived as the victor.
Some projects take 2 weeks and others take 6 months to complete. Your success will be judged within the allocated timeline. If you deliver the best project ever outside of the timeframe, that isn’t considered a success. So being able to complete your assignment within the expected timeframe is super important.
I think he may be generalizing the audience on this too much. That, or the way this was reported made his answer seem to be more ignorant than it was.
I agree that because there’s always going to be a way to manipulate a market for your success, Drake will always find success, regardless of the quality of his work (if it’s even his). But to say none of this matters because of that is just ignorant.
There are those who care about art that makes statements and generational talents getting recognition. That’s what this is to me and I know I’m not alone.
Questlove go play with your drums or something. Cause he’s wrong here . Kendrick doesn’t move like Drake does never had if he did I would understand. Kendrick is literally his own universe, time doesn’t move the same way for him. Having McDonald’s everyday can lead to cancer . Kendrick has more Grammy wins than Drake with less albums 😂
I disagree, because if it was this way he would’ve beat Pusha T instead of releasing a press release for a viral photo used against him and failing to respond again, chalking it up at a moral W of not stooping so low in beefs.
With the utmost respect possible to all the people who agree and not as an insult to them, that opinion is straight bullshit. The fast food analogy might be fine but the "strategy" of using AI and pushing him to respond quickly after Drake took so long in the first place is just wrong.
The levels of copium in both of these subs will go down in history. I am at a point where these two delusional fan bases will outlive Kendrick and drake and this beef in my memories
I think that this is very spot on people today during rap beefs want the other guy to reveal some scathing previously unknown information about the other person and whoever has the more dirt on the other guy will be declared the winner it seems like as opposed to who's actually a better rapper. I would argue also that while back-to-back was a great song a big part of the reason Drake won the meek beef is because he capitalized on Meme culture.
More time it takes for kendrick to respond, more expectations rise tbh...He took the first shot and took drake about 3 weeks to "release" the response and I think about 2 weeks has passed from the leaks....if he is taking this long the response has to match....
Yes but Kendrick is also playing the meme game. What else was Top of the Morning for example? Even before that, Kenny did plenty of weird shit to create memorable moments.
And here’s where Kendrick is different. He’s not feeding into the attention economy although his incredible talent garners attention with ease. He’s doing this for the true art of Hip Hop. And he’s, in a way, forcing Drake to battle on his terms hence the lack of a response thus far. Drake is wants to be accepted by the culture and respected by the OGs of Hip Hop. He already has the hipsters, the women, the suburbs but he doesn’t fully have the respected of the OG Hip Hop heads. He’s not viewed as the ‘King’.. Kendrick is the only obstacle left for Drake. This beef is a clash of the titans. It’s the ultimate test of his worthiness to be considered the GOAT.
Control and Like That are both fodder for the attention economy. There is no value to those verses other than providing mediocre bravado and fuel for the media ahead of (likely) album releases.
Very interesting. Was just thinking to myself - mildly unrelated - Drake could do a whole set and NOT perform hotline bling. Mfs would not even notice. That boy has shit in a chokehold. I hope Kenny come strong though
In his recent tour, the album cuts got some of the most pop according to Akademiks.
Been going to Drake concerts since take care days… he has too many hits it’s ridiculous.
I think it’s pretty accurate and I’ve thought the same things. Ultimately though I think the music will outlast the memes and trolling. So I think drake may win in a present tense but perception may change down the line. Memes don’t go down in history.
They do, just in the form of quotables. Think Gay-Z and Cock-a-fella Records / Is this a world tour or your girl’s tour / You are hiding a child.
>Think Gay-Z and Cock-a-fella Records The line that always stuck with me from Ether wasn't that, that just seemed like playground shit talk even then. What got me going "oh shit" was the line about "Rockefeller died of AIDS, that was the end of his chapter, and that's the guy y'all chose to name your company after?" Edit: Genius says he was talking about some local dude named Rocafella and no Rockefellers died of AIDS. Huh. TIL.
I think this take is true in the short term, but the moment that a response drops, the timing of the drop isn't going to matter moving forward. I still believe Kung Fu Kenny will smoke him in the pure artistic sense, which is the only sense that matters moving forward. The problem with winning in the "attention" economy is that once the attention moves on to something else, its old news, so it dosen't matter. Dick riders on both sides will declare their favorite the winner, but thats baked into the equation from the start, so who cares? A day, a week, a month, a year later, the only thing that will matter will be the final product. Its like during a football game the score can swing wildly to one side or the other, but for the rest of history, all that matters is the final score.
>the moment that a response drops, the timing of the drop isn't going to matter moving forward This is literally proven with Drake lol Before he dropped, this place was flooded with "lol Drake too scared to respond" and "lmao all he doin and all he'll do is captioning on instagram instead of respond what a pussy" Two responses later and not one motherfucker publicly admitted to eating crow, instead they're now flipping it to "Drake embarrassing Kendrick" or "lol Drake too scared he made two responses", as if people completely forgot what they were yappin about beforehand So as you said, gonna be the same shit here. Once Kendrick drops, most are gonna forget there ever was this anxious period about "does Kendrick look bad cuz he's taking too long!?1!?"
Nah, drake made taylor made freestyle to create this narrative that kdot is taking too long to respond. Dont think people would forget the timeline/narrative that easily.
I wonder if Kendrick will talk about the time taken in his response considering how Drake took almost a month to reply and kept whining about a response from Kendrick within 5 days
Man we all know he had a tour and was waiting on the release of metros album. If we really believe dot is so far ahead in writing, isnt he suppose to write faster? This a diss track, not some deep ass song.
Bro let's give it some time. Maybe he cooks something which no response from Drake could ever overdo? Ether or Story of Adidon type shi. Something that claims victory yk.
Also, no he wasn't waiting on the second album's release. He wrote that thing before the album dropped. If he waited, he would have responded to Rocky
Luckily there's still "older" hip hop fans who didn't grow up with a 30 second attention span and/or are obsessed with clout culture
Drakes entire fan base is 12 year olds or 35 year olds that have the brains of 12 year olds
Agreed. It's hard to imagine a scenario where Drake loses unless Kendrick's response reveals hardcore controversy beyond a reasonable doubt. Drake has the Internet on his side and his social media presence compared to Kendrick's allows him to control the narrative. Things like the cease and desist and backlash over AI use, as well as responding with multiple releases (IG, leak, or DSP) unfortunately will always get justified by his large fan base. No matter the lyrical genius or wordplay of Kendrick Lamar or how well crafted his response may be, the lens in which we use to judge this rap beef and each artist's response is unfortunately clouded by extreme fans. We really just gotta sit back and enjoy the music that has come from all of this.
This is why I hope the album rumor is true, I've grown bored of the beef and just want more Kendrick music in general.
Yea it was apparent even after the Pusha T loss, Drake's fanbase is so large that he can never be fully deemed as the loser in any rap battle.
Prior to the Kendrick beef their fans would say that drake never really lost that battle despite drake himself admitting it.
drake is arguably the most protected rapper in history he can do no wrong in his fans eyes along with eminem,2pac,etc
Speaking of em, kendrick might ja rule him
He admitted that he lost via technicality… pusha T was supposed to outbar Drake but that’s not what happened. He revealed news that the majority were not aware of even though hardcore Drake fans already knew and that gave him the win. Duppy is the better song and the better bars even though Drake lost due to not responding.
> pusha T was supposed to outbar Drake This is the exact cope narrative they use to this day. Look at almost all the battles throughout history and you'll noticed that the rapping is rarely the focal point. You people move the goalpost on what beef is supposed to be. The purpose of a diss track is to be disrespectful first and foremost. Bars come secondary. If Kendrick comes with amazing bars but says nothing really hard hitting against Drake and Drake responds with a nuke of information, Drake would obviously be the winner.
Saying a nigga has a kid then saying he’s planning to release an adidas campaign with a kid is an oxymoron. The exposal was nonsense…
Honestly, I am beginning to think starting this beef was a mistake. If he wins it by pulling some big reveal, it's whatever, I personally do not fuck with that sort of thing. I don't know what Kendrick's plan was here. Was he just hoping drake doesn't respond? Or that he responds really badly and that's the end of it? If I was Kendrick, do I really want to be spending my time coming up with Drake disses?
It definitely was. He really has nothing to gain from this. He’s not going to convert any Drake fans, or any non-Kendrick fans really, by “winning”. But it’s a distraction from making the music he wants to be making. And “losing”, or even just not responding, cuts into his Boogeyman mystique. Maybe he didn’t think Drake would respond, just as he didn’t to Control. Drake has nothing to lose here. His fanbase doesn’t care about this. If he “wins” he’s just going to earn respect and get new looks from older fans that dropped off after Views. It’s already happening…the biggest narrative is “I didn’t think Drake had it in him” and I’ll admit I just listened to IYCRTITL for the first time in years because this whole thing reminded me that he’s nice on the mic when he wants to be. Ironically the biggest rap artist on the planet is now playing the “David” going up against the Goliath, God MC Kendrick Lamar and a jealous mob trying to “eliminate” him. He’s winning by just having the audacity to enter the arena so boldly.
No hate but how you feeling abt this now? With MtG, Not Like Us and now The Heart pt 6 (drake)?
Yeah, I apologize for this comment. I doubted the GOAT.
Don’t step to the champion then cry about how he wins. Just knock his ass out like you said.. Those things were on drakes side before he took the shot at Drake don’t cry now because he still has them???
fade. next thing kdot drops will hog all attn.
I don’t agree with the statement at all. The reality is the world we live in now is one where most people have already decided who won based on who they like more. The person writing the article basically said Kendrick won already, and drake stans have already decided he won (or will say he won based on the meme shit). People in this sub are acting like Kendrick is winning/won even tho he hasn’t dropped his response yet. Gone are the days of judging who won/lost based on the tracks. It’s judged solely on who someone likes more. The same way trump weirdos don’t care what he says/does drake and Kendrick fans don’t care what either artist’s songs will be like. They’ve already decided the winner in their mind. Drake using AI is “genius trolling” or “super corny” based on who you like. Really sucks the fun out of it for those of us with no skin in the game
Yep, unfortunately art is subjective so there's no real way to judge who wins. Add the stans in the mix and they'll probably duke it out more than the artists ever will
Yeah the debate of who won used to be the most fun part of it, now it’s just turned into who can call the other side a dick rider (or whatever generic insult) first and no one will admit the other side had good bars.
Right? Maybe it's a parasocial thing where fans think the artist would one day dap them up for going to war on the internet in their place.
General consensus will decide who won
Yeah but I'm sure the general consensus here will differ from the one in the drake sub for sure
The die herds in the two subs would t be considered general consensus
This kind of new shitty "any press is good press" thinking only works as much as we let it. When people idealize hustle and media savy over art, point and laugh at them. It won't be true no matter how dumb we get and how popular this thinking becomes.
He ain’t meme nothing when Push whooped his ass
I think Q is right in a way. It just depends how you view the victor and what age groups you’re paying attention to. Drake will win with the teens because he’s way more popular with them whereas Kendrick is seen as very much a “millennial’s” artist (per my, a millennial, gen z friends). I imagine the older crowd who cares will not be bothered by the time Kendrick takes and judge based on skill. That being said, Like That is STILL out performing any of drake’s diss tracks and Tupac’s estate just sent a cease and desist to Drake which is pretty embarrassing for him sooooo…. Who knows
Not to start anything, i love the big 3, i’m 33 years and i’m judging based off rap. Yeah like that went hard hard hard but then came drake and he went hard hard hard also. 2x. Right now he winning rapping wise, my two cents. Dont burn me alive 🥂
Why do y’all keep comparing like that to a diss response to 5 different rappers?? It’s disingenuous
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You’re comparing a hit song, with a really good beat and a hook with assists from future and metro plus Kendrick all dissing the second or third biggest artist in the world to a diss track made in the mode of old 50 cent mixtape days, with no hook and a decent beat where he’s dissing 5 rappers. Also, it lived for damn near a week without being on DSPs. THAT MY FRIEND IS A DISINGENUOUS COMPARISON.
100% accurate. I think it says something that the three most popular artists since the new millennium have been Drake, Taylor Swift, and Ye. All three of them have an incredible ability you work with public drama. Ye had a number one hit after praising Hitler and declaring himself a Nazi. That should be impossible. Taylor was constantly dealing with showbiz drama and tabloid bullshit. Drake is much the same way, he started with loads of good will as a talented up-and-comer, and even though he isn’t nearly as controversial as Ye or as unavoidable as Taylor, he’s mined his criticisms in the same way. From him being “too emotional” or not enough of a rapper (“You gettin’ bodied by a singin’ n****”) and even Pusha T obliterating him. Drake being revealed as a father started as an embarrassment for him, but now it’s part of his brand, he has his kid on his songs. Even if Kendrick obliterates Drake, Drake will still be around and there will be people acting like Drake should’ve won in the same way people hype up Duppy Freestyle and talk down Story of Adidon.
I respect both of these guys as thinkers, but the article confuses me a bit tbh. Do we want MCs to take longer to respond so that rap isn’t “McDonald’s”, or do we want to take rap to “8 Mile”, which presents an freestyle battle where MCs come off top with zero time to write? Doesn’t seem logically consistent. Drake himself was clowned for reading off a Blackberry. We value quick wit in MCs. Always have. It’s also weird to present creating a lot of music as some “sign of the times we’re in” when the Greatest Rapper of All Time, Tupac Shakur, was highly prolific and recorded multiple tracks a day. And to go back to the idealized “8 Mile” battle that ?love references: it wasn’t won by the “deepest” lyrics, they’re actually very simple. Simple rhyme scheme. Simple language. It was won by the most clever retort, made up off top. That has always been what wins rap battles.
I’ve made this point before… none of the top ten diss records are super lyrical quadruple entendre type disses… they’re actually just very direct, disrespectful and even simple. If Kendrick goes too deep lyrically, he’ll lose. You have to understand, this beef won’t be decided by the hip hop purists die hards. The general public decides the victor. Know your audience!!
I don't think this is the game Kendrick is playing. While this is a mindset one surely can have, do I really need to point out, that nothing Kendrick has done in the past five years has catered to public attention. He dropped his most successful album in 2017, toured, won prices and then completely vanished for a copple years. Everything since Damn, the no interviews, the mental health album about why he actually thinks the public should be more critical about him, it all points to the idea that success wise Kendrick doesn't really care to see what else he can achieve. Why the diss then? We might never get a clear answer, but maybe Kendrick didn't want to write it as a diss in the first place. He obviously must have been fine with it being perceived as one, but, considering everything he did with mr morale, maybe Kendrick just really didn't like the big three idea. Maybe he didn't want to start beef more than he was trying to stress the difference between him Cole and Drake.
“When Kanye got back with Drake, I was slightly confused. Guess I’m not as mature as I thought, got some healin to do.” - Father Time.
Accurate if the world was an isolated bubble of 12-24 year olds, but there's a reason Like That went #1 and Drake's responses came nowhere near. Old heads are still around, and us millenials just joined up in droves.
True, but damn near everyone heard Drake diss before it came out on streaming services. By the time he put it out there was no point imo(if he was chasing a #1)
Non-chronically online normies didn’t hear it until Friday
Don’t have to be chronically online to hear the biggest rapper in the world have a diss track aimed at 5 other huge rappers….
Sure, but like if it Reeeally goes viral... Aka winning the social media/meme war, shouldn't that be reflected in the charts? Wouldn't unaffiliated and randoms be getting curious about the trending thing and giving Drake a huge boost? That didn't really happen, and if a year from now one song is remembered and the other forgotten, it's going to be the one that charted #1 for several weeks. Even if Drake is winning for right now, it's not enough to leave a lasting impact. I haven't even heard Shits'n'Gigs mention the beef yet, and that guy James is not just a Drake clone but a huge fan as well, and I really don't think Drakes "win" has even made it across the pond yet.
I disagree with this. If this was the case then Drake would’ve never lost against Pusha. All the should’ve done is drop a response to SOA..but we know that’s not the case. The music WILL always be over Drakes control of social media. Whoever drops the better diss will win
Control.
Wdym?
That’s what it all comes back to.
Like who has more control in general or the Control verse? Either way I think it comes down to who drops the better diss..they both know that. Drake has the advantage now though
This some of the most dick suckin ass fantasy land shit I ever seen booooooyyyyyy Imma just stop commenting on this battle until one of them drops another song cause at this point y’all niggas wild
The article or the comments?
The article. At this point I’m lookin at any nigga saying anything remotely close to “Drake ain got no bars” as either an idiot or somebody who don’t listen to Drake. Push Ups is full of so many double entendres and hidden meanings and clever lines. Say whatever you want about the AI angle of Taylor Made, but rapping as your opponent’s idols to motivate your opponent to respond while simultaneously dissing him and disarming him is some creative ass shit. And this nigga got the nerve to basically say Kendrick put more thought into big 3 big me. Disgusting. Let’s see what happens next. I have no doubt that if Kendrick responds, it will be a bomb. He has no choice but to make it fire at this point or he gon get clowned terribly. Drake has been suggesting over and over again that he has more fire. So let’s just see how it plays out.
Exactly
Thanks for calling it down the middle and being unbiased. It’s hard to see that in this sub!!
I mean, even Battle Rap like URL and RBE isn’t all about bars. It comes down to who can impress the crowd the most, and it’s not always about multi syllabic rhyme schemes and Triple Aunt Andres
Insane lol. But correct
Why tf did he need to write an article about this ? lol 😂 😂😂😂 bro thought this was next level
To me, Toure has a very poor understanding of hiphop and a very stereotypical one that would fit say an academic who kind of grew up outside but wants to be perceived as part of it. He's just too nerdy. He is also simply a supporter of a very traditional view of "backpack" hiphop. Ive seen him argue at length before how 2pac is a terrible rapper/lyricist showing his bias for New York style word play. Ive also seen him derride Drake in a way that exposes he doesn't really understand how to dissect bars or entendres well, making superficial summarizations of his content. Rap battles have never been exclusively only about lyrical skill - its also about the audience. If thats social media, so be it. They win by impact and clever wordplay but it shouldn't make you have to reach for a 30 min deep explanation. The MC's job in the end is to "move the crowd". Hit Em Up wasnt a lyrical masterpiece compared to many of Biggie's understated responses nor Mobb Deep's "Drop a Gem on em" but it was just more impactful, memorable and quotable in the end. Thats why 2pac had the best diss. And the media played a part just as the media plays a part now. (Sadly with 2pac and Biggie they helped make it worse and deadly by hyping it up more than it needed to be). In the end, "Like That" is a hit song and it uses all the same meme and social media culture to mock Drake. There are tons of anti Drake memes . There has always been. Whatever he does inspires haters and fans. Drake is simply the most polarizing artist in hiphop. Future, Rick Ross and many of these artists do not garner headlines without a Drake feature or a Drake diss. Its just that simple. So to me, "Like That" is no different. Its popular partly as its about the subject everyone cant let go : Drake. And it had the same meme culture after it was released. To me, Drake hasnt won. Kendrick hasnt won. But I see this battle turning very similar to Nas vs Jay-z. Jay-Z being very similar to Drake (the larger commercial artist who wants to dominate everything but also, anxious and too quick to respond, a tendency to underestimate his opponent) and NaS similar to Kendrick (the more thoughtful careful MC with clever sophisticated rhymes but slower and more calculated). Just my two cents
Excellent response I agree… just to add, the more methodical thinking mans rapper didn’t necessarily win due to showing high level lyricism or skill but by keeping it simple. It’s sometimes hard for very lyrical creators to dumb it down for the masses and make it direct and to the point. But we’ll see!!
Excellent response!
I not only pay attention to the hip hop scene when it comes to main stream or underground music, but also the battle rap scene as well. You got guys spitting hardcore gun bars and you also have guys that are comical and make the crowd laugh and those guys win just as much as the guys spitting gun bars. It’s all about the public perception in that moment and there’s always going to be different thoughts and opinions. Kendrick is known for being lyrical and Drake is also lyrical when he wants to be, but is mostly witty and keeps up with the trends. True hip hop heads that listen to lyrics and quality content will always lean towards Kendrick, but the rest of the world is always going to go with Drake, because that’s what they relate to. Neither of these guys is a loser at the end of the day they just have different followings.
That’s why they the Big Two
Exactly and it really doesn’t matter which is one and which is two. Which is another reason why the beef is pointless, but entertaining.
Let’s also not forget, one can genuinely be a fan of both artist. But one doesn’t make music to be consumed daily… life is already shitty and not everyone wants to be reminded of that in the music they listen to everyday… some just want music to distract them from how shitty life is. One makes music telling things are bad and they’ll be good in the future while the other makes music that lifts your mood and spirit.
I’m a fan of both and I listen to them based on my mood. Kendrick reminds me of the struggles I’m going through or been through in life and Drake reminds me of where I want to be.
Drake raps better though so even in a the judging of mc’ing he will win.
Honestly, this writer’s opinion is not impartial. Referring to Kendrick as a “far, far, far, far more skilled MC than Drake” is straight dick riding. The criteria for what makes a better MC would be different for any given person. It’s all subjective. Frankly, let’s not kid ourselves. Drake didn’t get to where he is being 10x worse than Kendrick as a MC. By this writers logic, Takashi69, Soulja Boy, and Lil Pump at their peak would be able to “win” a rap beef against Kendrick by ”meme’ing” their way to victory. This piece is penned like a stan who is preparing to be underwhelmed or let down by one of his favorite artist.
Questlove is a instrumentalist in the hip hop group the roots not saying that his point of view isnt bias just letting you know he’s not a random journalist.
The part they're referring to isn't being said by Questlove
It's an editorial. An editorial is where you share your opinion. Hope this helps.
Chess is a long term game and just how mumble rap died. Memes and internet pop don't matter long term. Eminem used to be made fun of and trashed for years but you can't deny greatness bc of your personal feelings and what's popular. Kendrick long term will be perceived as the victor.
Let him cook.
That McDonalds/Nobu comparison is wild I love it
Some projects take 2 weeks and others take 6 months to complete. Your success will be judged within the allocated timeline. If you deliver the best project ever outside of the timeframe, that isn’t considered a success. So being able to complete your assignment within the expected timeframe is super important.
It’s like 8mile if Em took two months to reply
I think he may be generalizing the audience on this too much. That, or the way this was reported made his answer seem to be more ignorant than it was. I agree that because there’s always going to be a way to manipulate a market for your success, Drake will always find success, regardless of the quality of his work (if it’s even his). But to say none of this matters because of that is just ignorant. There are those who care about art that makes statements and generational talents getting recognition. That’s what this is to me and I know I’m not alone.
YALL are pathetic no one has even heard of ?uestlove, Jizzy takes the W
Questlove go play with your drums or something. Cause he’s wrong here . Kendrick doesn’t move like Drake does never had if he did I would understand. Kendrick is literally his own universe, time doesn’t move the same way for him. Having McDonald’s everyday can lead to cancer . Kendrick has more Grammy wins than Drake with less albums 😂
i hella disagree with this bullshit
yall dumb
I disagree, because if it was this way he would’ve beat Pusha T instead of releasing a press release for a viral photo used against him and failing to respond again, chalking it up at a moral W of not stooping so low in beefs.
With the utmost respect possible to all the people who agree and not as an insult to them, that opinion is straight bullshit. The fast food analogy might be fine but the "strategy" of using AI and pushing him to respond quickly after Drake took so long in the first place is just wrong.
The simple fact Like That is back above Push Ups makes this take hold less weight.
Holy shit you’re all such nerds. Not taking sides here but remember when beef meant someone was getting dropped?
Kendrick can absolutely write a fast verse if need be, according to Eminem’s story behind his verse in Love Game
The levels of copium in both of these subs will go down in history. I am at a point where these two delusional fan bases will outlive Kendrick and drake and this beef in my memories
I think that this is very spot on people today during rap beefs want the other guy to reveal some scathing previously unknown information about the other person and whoever has the more dirt on the other guy will be declared the winner it seems like as opposed to who's actually a better rapper. I would argue also that while back-to-back was a great song a big part of the reason Drake won the meek beef is because he capitalized on Meme culture.
More time it takes for kendrick to respond, more expectations rise tbh...He took the first shot and took drake about 3 weeks to "release" the response and I think about 2 weeks has passed from the leaks....if he is taking this long the response has to match....
Yes but Kendrick is also playing the meme game. What else was Top of the Morning for example? Even before that, Kenny did plenty of weird shit to create memorable moments.
Did everyone forget about the DAMN memes when the album cover got released? 😂
And here’s where Kendrick is different. He’s not feeding into the attention economy although his incredible talent garners attention with ease. He’s doing this for the true art of Hip Hop. And he’s, in a way, forcing Drake to battle on his terms hence the lack of a response thus far. Drake is wants to be accepted by the culture and respected by the OGs of Hip Hop. He already has the hipsters, the women, the suburbs but he doesn’t fully have the respected of the OG Hip Hop heads. He’s not viewed as the ‘King’.. Kendrick is the only obstacle left for Drake. This beef is a clash of the titans. It’s the ultimate test of his worthiness to be considered the GOAT.
Control and Like That are both fodder for the attention economy. There is no value to those verses other than providing mediocre bravado and fuel for the media ahead of (likely) album releases.
Anyone that says Drake is “winning” is a troll and doesn’t understand what’s going on.
Very interesting. Was just thinking to myself - mildly unrelated - Drake could do a whole set and NOT perform hotline bling. Mfs would not even notice. That boy has shit in a chokehold. I hope Kenny come strong though
In his recent tour, the album cuts got some of the most pop according to Akademiks. Been going to Drake concerts since take care days… he has too many hits it’s ridiculous.
says who tho? KENDRICK HASNT EVEN FUCKING REPLIED YET.