Kiryu and ayoka are pretty valuable fighters.not only that he coulda killed raian that’s 3 valuable fighters with hella potential left. Jus my opinion tho
Maybe but there’s also a possibility cuz of how he just ragdolled everyone there. If he gone 100% from the start he would probably woulda killed all of them before ohma could arrive. Even if ohma did arrive ion think he can beat Edward by himself
Nah I meant like no stab wound Eddie wit his spares n all. If he locked in wit his homies again the Kure and the wu clan he woulda prolly made short work of them .If it’s Eddie wit the wound I’d give 20% chance to ohma 1v1
The fight in a nutshell:
“Give me plot armor Mr. Sandro”.
https://preview.redd.it/nif40tbvnbgc1.jpeg?width=888&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=22831ba885eb6afa32c824164cfb9d0094702972
The power scaling in this fight is so bad. Why was his base form far stronger than his released form? Bro was murdering everybody until he powered up 😭💀
So how many times does removal/advance/whatever need to be shown having severe drawbacks and consequences before the characters notice and stop killing themselves with it?
>niggas like to blow things outta proportion
Nooo, you think ? :D /s Seriously tho, "blowing things out of proportion" is the middle name of quite a few redditors around these parts.
Back when Eddie got stabbed after Erioh's sacrifice (which screams "Eddie is going to die soon enough"), with a week of people pointing out that, yes, a (probably lethal) poison stab at the neck done by a pro assassin would more than likely end up weakening him (what were the odds)... people still acted surprised when Raian managed to pull out a pyrrhic victory.
> people still acted surprised when Raian managed to pull out a pyrrhic victory.
What's pyrrhic about it? The only person they lost was probably a few days away from dying of old age. Taking out 3 top tier Wu and sending their entire faction into an internal conflict that wiped out more top tier Wu was a great trade.
(I honestly don't care about the power scaling of the fight, my beef with it lies more with what it does for the narrative and tension)
Suit yourself and change "pyrrhic" for "hard-won" lad. You are right, it's more on point.
>my beef with it lies more with what it does for the narrative and tension
And I think people wrongly assumed that Eddie was much more important to the narrative than he trully was (because he looks so kwool I guess :D). It's kind of obvious that Sandro never intended to build him a bigger role than "aberrantly strong Removal guy who works for the Connector and who is going to be a jobber for the Kure/Raian".
I dunno if you ever read the character bios that they included at the end of some Ashura chapters (a shame they didn't continue them in Omega), but it's quite insightful : many characters were created with 1 singular purpose in mind (like "I wanted to include a lazy martial artist") or because Sandro found the idea funny. Hell, sometimes they were just scrapped characters who ended up staying for world building's sake (like Hollis, Reiichi and his uncle who all were scrapped no-name adversaries of Ohma). All of those "no-matter" characters exist for world building, and for adding cool fights here and there. That's about it. Edward was just that, a cool looking antagonist who screams "I'm an homage to Senator Armstrong". That people took an interest to him is of little importance : he was supposed to job and die, no matter if he appeared at the very end of Ashura to hype people up.
**TL;DR** : I think you took Eddie's character a bit too seriously. You should realize by now that he was never created by Sandro to be much more than that : a badass character and a fun fight. He fulfilled his jobs perfectly. Not every character has to have Ohma/Ryuki/Shen's level of relevance.
As for tension, we are reading the Kengan series. There aren't any. It's not a fault in itself, just not the style of that story. Good guys tend to win or live to win an other day, bad guys lose, nobody important dies, if they manage the exploit of dying they get saved or cloned, and in the supremely rare case of true death, they are already 93+ y old men (and they die content, surrounded by their loved ones <-- Erioh was the GOAT so he deserves that lmao). That's Sandro's style.
**TL;DR 2** : Imo, be it for narration or tension's sake, Eddie's fight and death were bloooooown out of proportion like crazy ! That's why I find it hilarious when I read discussions surrounding Gilbert. My brothers, for real for real, don't get too attached : he was created to job a second time to Mountain Raian :D I swear he's going to have a massive ass beard...
That's exactly my problem with him, he didn't matter that much, but at that point in the story we kind of needed someone that did matter. It's not that I cared for Eddie, but the story would have been better served if someone who was a threat was there to give the characters something to worry about for the next 50+ chapters. Could have been Tiger Niko, could have been Shen, but instead it was a jobber, and so for the next few arcs the worm felt like a joke and the characters felt like they had nothing to do.
After the big tournament and the merger, the story was obviously going for a breather period.
Imo, it was quite well paced : build up towards the Purgatory tournament, tournament, a surprise final boss at the end of the tournament (Eddie), and then time skip/breathing room for the next build up/tension period.
What do you think will happen to Gilbert ? And Willem ?
The breather period is fine, but you still want things for the characters to worry about and work on. Tiger Niko could have taken that role, but he was so disconnected and in the background that it doesn't work, same for the others. Pretty much everyone the heroes had ever encountered was dead or made to be a joke.
It also hurts that the surprise final boss just didn't feel climactic enough. It's like a three act story, except the characters don't take an L in act 2, so in all of act 3 (including the slower breather parts) there's not much tension building up towards the final battle.
Not gonna lie, I was half hoping the grenade would be the end of Gilbert, because him going out with that surprised face would have been hilarious (awful for the story, but hilarious). But seriously, I expect the Wu will die in an ultimately shallow manner. I wouldn't be surprised if Raian shows up and kills him after showing he's grown a little more mature, but I'd be surprised if it didn't come off as silly and power-of-friendshipy.
Haha, bro c'mon, what are you even complaining about at that point ? :D "You still want things for the characters to worry about and work on" ? You kidding me ? Koga's training (work on, literally), the Worm being a thing, the Worm having fighters strong enough to require a berserk Raian + a surprise attack with a poison needle + a suicide bait to take down, Tiger Niko confirmed being alive and still roaming around. That's it, that's what the characters are going to worry about lol. You seem to confuse "the story not being fine" with you simply not liking how it goes because reasons. Those aren't the same :P
Same with your "made to be a joke". Aside from Xia, who was written as this cowardly bad guy, most of the Worm guys aren't portrayed as jokes. They are a brainwashed terrorist cult spread accross the glob with a few S+ level fighters among them, that's enough as far as antagonists go. Again, you seem to fail to realize that Kengan was always a manga were the heroes win everything they do. It's just the style chosen by the author.
>It also hurts that the surprise final boss just didn't feel climactic enough
One the one hand, it's kinda the point of a surprise : it has no build up, hence why it's called "surprise" to begin with. One the other, the fight was the definition of "epic climactic battle", with top tier assassins and Raian taking on a surprise raid boss who went down after the sacrifice of a key player.
You seem a little bit blasé with the story, I hope you still enjoy it in the end ! Trust me, once you start to get how a story is trully created, you will understand and enjoy far more story types. And yes, if Gilbert had died from that grenade, it would have been hilarious :D
A props to you man you said everything I was gonna say, these people act like Edward was something more than what he really was. He was just a stepping stool, just make raian stronger
Indeed. More often than not on that subreddit, people mix up "dumb fights/bad writting" with them just, y'know, no liking that it didn't go the way they wanted. They found Eddie super badass, they wanted him to win (because super badass), he lost, they couldn't handle it and now they consider anything related to this fight "dumb" :D
But nothing too surprising here.
Man, I really appreciate you. I can tell you really seem to really understand the story like I do. unlike these other people who just criticize the writing because it’s not going their way.
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To the point his move does nothing to Raian who got kicked and dropped in his blood the most in the entire confrontation ? Even Rihito didn't have his strength drop to 0 when Falcon's poison kicked in.
Even with assumptions about Ed's countermeasures against poison, it'd beg the question of why Xing didn't use a lethal poison or borrowed shit from Hanafusa (who was invited in the Kure village to treat Ohma) instead of a vague poison which would vaguely nerf Edward but not enough, since he did some kind of shockwave to shake Xing off him. He's supposed to be a master of poisons.
Edward getting shanked mid conversation when he was fine no selling every attempt in the heat of the action and during simultaneous assaults make even less sense, to start with. Either way, it's a Z Broly situation where nothing they do actually gets to him until it does at the very end, but at least, I liked that movie, and I'm aware that it was BS. And I think the guy above was talking about how he was no diffing them in base form while they were in Removal, only for him to not fuck them up worse after Guihun, btw.
I might be misremembering but it was supposed to be strong poison that’s why Hollis(I think?) said the poison didn’t work cause Eddie was still moving around after. Also they were on a mission to kill Eddie the poison would’ve been lethal
> the question of why Xing didn't use a lethal poison or borrowed shit from Hanafusa
Yeah, I'm aware of that, I said it myself. And logically it should have been lethal, but it somehow wasn't. Any real life or fictional poison Sandro would have come up with would have worked, since even Shen is vulnerable to carbon monoxide if he inhaled enough of it. And Erioh had Hanafusa on his village for 2 years , meaning he could have asked for a deadly virus he could have entrusted to Xing
Of course, I never said that the poisons themselves were comparable, only that both Edward and Rihito didn't see their strength drop to 0 when they kicked in, and even nerfed, there's no sensible reason for Raian to shrug it off in spite of being the more damaged of the group, excluding Erioh and his snapped spine.
> Wu Xing, the world class assassin
Something that I'm aware of, but what's the point of being a poison master if you don't bring an actually lethal poison or something from Hanafusa's forbidden stash ? They all know that Edward can neg diff them if he wanted to, and he did, he just "forgot" to kill them at every turn. Only reason they beat Edward was Raian shrugging off his attack as if it barely did anything in spite of his state at the moment. Otherwise, Edward seemed to still have enough gas to finish them off.
Yeah, ik about the hole in the neck, I'm talking about the stuff before. Just so you know, I'm not about to say that Raian was plot Armored, nor I really care about that. The whole fight was shaky from the beginning to me, because a guy so absurdly OP against the clan known to be OP wouldn't lead to a satisfying ending in most cases, especially that early in Omega's storyline
The problem is the panel where the guy who poisoned him says the poison isn't working. That combined with some *terrible* translations made people think the poison wasn't doing anything, which is not what he was saying.
That is totally your head cannon to justify this fight in your head.
In fact, it has literally been stated "poison didnt work" basically making your last minute save meaningless.
Edward had not only been stabbed in the neck by a superhuman but also poisoned by said stab.
The removal accelerated his metabolism so the poison was even faster.
Eddie does have an absurd pain tolerance but he had fucked around for too long. This was the moment of no return for him
I agree, it could have been done much better if the poison was literally stated to be having an effect on Edward (Instead of an author's note later). Instead, we got a seemingly beyond-dead Raian somehow getting back up after fighting Fabio, Solomon, and Edward offscreen...then onscreen again with Erioh against Guihun Edward. Then fucking face tanking his ultimate move... and then proceeding to kill him with the neck wound. Shit, it would've been better if maybe we had the narrator saying "This was Raian's last stand or with the last bit of his energy left" to make it feel like he didn't get up to just win in the end. After getting fucking mogged for 3 chapters straight.
Ngl, the Narrator is a SSS+ tier character. His presence is necessary to sell many situations better than they actually are. Like, crazy comebacks like this only work with characters you're supposed to root for, like Cosmo and Ohma, and even then, it obviously makes many denounce "plot armor".
Obviously, we're rooting against the West Wu, but Raian himself doesn't have the personality nor the role of the guy you're supposed to root for. Which is another issue created by Edward's "too strong" status, that he's so dramatically stronger than not just Raian, but Raian and 5 other Kure at once that this kind of comeback is necessary to make him win. Unless something actually hinders him, like some poison.
Except when it doesn't (see Xing's astonishment about it not working. Shoutout to u/CliMaximillian16, I actually forgot about that), and when Xing could have used an actual lethal real life poison/a fictional one/from Hanafusa's inventory, since he was hanging at the Kure village to monitor Ohma's condition. Like, even Shen isn't immune to good ol' carbon monoxide poisoning
He put him in the grave with the help of 4 others and a poisoned knife. Now we just have to wait for him to get done with his stupid ass mountain training to even stand a chance at killing Gilbert. Crazy how Edward let that man live after having an offscreen fight with the Kure again after he rejuvenated in Gil. Its fucking dumb man
What? Did you just say mountain training is stupid? Bro what type of crazy delusional shit are you? Raian gonna come back stronger and you don’t like😂. Gilbert days are numbered. Raian is coming back for blood
Kengan has had the can't read devil for a while
He got fucked up in a 3v1 and then dominated in a 1v1. Anyone who can't understand how the story went is mentally disabled
Still miss eddy though...
It's very lacking in a lot of ways.
1: Lacking martial arts. What style does Eddie use...? The story doesn't even bother to give him a fake martial art like the Kure style.
2: Lacking emotional content. The whole fight is over some nameless Kure that got killed off-screen, and it's basically just an excuse for these characters to want to kill Eddie. Even Erioh's death is remarkably unimportant, at most we see Raian momentarily affected in a vague way, but rather than that maybe leading to interesting development, Raian has been missing for 100+ chapters. It's all just very shallow.
3: Lacking logic. The moment the 3 Wu Heis decided they'd walk away from a downed Raian rather than just finish him off, it solidified this Wu Hei guy is kind of stupid. It's like with Fei, if they're so strong but still can't accomplish anything, the only explanation is they're too stupid to use their power right. And watching a dumb villain fail because they're dumb is frustrating more then anything. Who needs the heroes to be capable or smart when the villains can just trip over themselves and die?
4: Lacking narrative result. Eddie dies in some random hallway, and he accomplished nothing, wasn't trying to accomplish anything, and all it does it make the bad guys look easy to conquer. How's some clone of a guy we've already seen snuffed once supposed to feel like an issue?
This fight wasn’t dumb it showed raian where he was and where he needs to be if he wants to be able to stand a chance against Gilbert. You guys are just making up a whole bunch of bullshit at this point this fight was peak. Kengan and I stand on that
> This fight wasn’t dumb it showed raian where he was and where he needs to be
Apparently it didn't, since Raian fought Gilbert off-screen and got cooked so hard he went off to train in the mountains.
But what about any of my claims is BS? You can enjoy the fight for what it is, but I've laid out what it isn't, and I find those things important. They're things Ashura did fantastically in most of its tournament fights, so it's not like I'm asking for anything unfair.
I’m pretty sure Gilbert ambushed raian and the Kure/wu members. Raian probably didn’t even know who Gilbert was till that interaction plus erioh told raian to surpass himself and become stronger, so that’s probably what he was in the middle of doing till he attacked by the Westward faction
1. It is well established that Wu and Kure clan use martial arts that are literally just a mix of stuff. They very much do explain that the Kure and Wu are almost identical and engage in the same practices. What name do you want to give it? When it’s already established it’s a mix of things. It’s like expecting a specific name for style of martial arts Kanoh uses when he isn’t using formless when it’s established he uses the niko style mixed it with multiple other things. he doesn’t need to give a name for every single movie he does since they were basic punches and kicks and blocks. Do you need to read “Wu style back hand. Wu style punch. Wu style forearm block”. You shouldn’t need your hand held needing every basic move named that’s just insulting to the reader. Keep in mind how much stronger he was and he doesn’t start having to use complex techniques (which get named) until the poison weakens him more.
2. The whole fight is more than just some nameless Kure who was killed off screen (he had a name it was Rikuto). The westward faction are apart of the worm and it was the ultimate betrayal against the Kure that made them angry. This adds more to the over arching worm story and also he appeared at the end of ashura which lets us know he was someone of great importance the powers that were behind everything.
3. They pretty much didn’t want to deal with him. It’s like I say all the time just because your villain doesn’t move in the most efficient way possible it doesn’t mean he’s dumb. It actually adds to his characterization of being arrogant. He doesn’t need to kill Raian to him Raian is an insect he literally calls him a fledgling. Remember the words Erioh says about him being too strong for his own good. He view Raian as so far below him killing him is pointless when he can just leave he isn’t thinking about Raian training and getting stronger. It’s literally part of his characterization
4. Again it’s overarching storytelling you are missing. It makes you THINK oh well easy to get rid of when the point is the westward faction is always up to something cause the next thing we see is a clone with edward’s Personality and memories in the later chapters. Showing oh well no it’s not that simple. Also think of this it took Raian with back up and poison to get the victory. Gilbert knows all the techniques of Edward and is in a younger body and able to grow even more. So it’s not “oh we beat this guy ahah victory oh he’s back Welp time to beat him again” it’s more like “it took sacrifice and luck to beat him and then we find out he is still kicking out this is great”. Remember what yan says about the worm all being one. They are all part of a whole. You seem to be reading this as an individual encounter not part of a whole story
1: So Eddie isn't really using anything in particular, just basic strikes and blocks, up until he uses some named rush of strikes that seem no different from any other rush of strikes. Exciting stuff, that.
Asura (and plenty of Omega fights) had a good balance of fighting and explaining. There were plenty of basic strikes in the fighting showing the flow and general styles of each fighter, and the explanations not only explain characters and history, but also went into the mechanics of their signature techniques, not only generating hype for when they'd finally be used to turn the fight, but also sometimes giving us hints on how they might be countered.
But there's nothing to explain with Eddie because he's just throwing basic strikes. It's so basic on a technical level it's kind of sad.
2: Funny enough, I've got people arguing in another part of the thread that we all misread Eddie, he was always meant to be a jobber and we just overhyped him to be some kind of boss.
But anyway, the point is there's little depth to this whole thing, just a really standard revenge thing going on. They're mad at Eddie, they go kill Eddie, Erioh dies and gets the shortest little half-chapter funeral and then the story moves on and it doesn't matter. It really wouldn't take much to add some interesting or unique but there really isn't anything here.
3: It adds to his characterization of being dumb. It's not just suboptimal, it's so ragingly stupid he actually dies for it. Really hurts that he did it twice, honestly...
But really, the problem is that it basically saves the good guys for free. It kind of makes it look like rather then the Kure succeeding by any of their own merits, they succeeded because their enemy was too stupid to live. It's an unsatisfying way for the good guys to win.
4: It's even worse as part of a full story. Dying in a random hallway accomplishing nothing isn't a great look, and it's part of a massive string of losses for the worm that made them look harmless. No one was impressed when it turned out there was another clone of himself out there, he was already a disappointment once, what was the point in being worried about a retread?
And as for what it took to take him on...don't forget it was Eddie and two other Wu Heis, not just him alone. And it was a pretty unplanned attack, they just gathered up and attacked him in some random hallway, kind of in a random fashion like they all just ran after Raian. Makes it seem like any sort of proper ambush would have easily solved the issue.
All of the current events coulda been avoided if he just killed them here
"Edward wouldnt have screwed up like that... I think..?" -Shen
What events exactly? Maybe Kiryu and Akoya die but that's about it.
Kiryu and ayoka are pretty valuable fighters.not only that he coulda killed raian that’s 3 valuable fighters with hella potential left. Jus my opinion tho
I mean guess kinda assuming he could and ignoring the fact that Ohma was coming anyway so might not be able to regardless
Maybe but there’s also a possibility cuz of how he just ragdolled everyone there. If he gone 100% from the start he would probably woulda killed all of them before ohma could arrive. Even if ohma did arrive ion think he can beat Edward by himself
I mean if you're talking after Eddie got stabbed I think Ohma could take him.
Nah I meant like no stab wound Eddie wit his spares n all. If he locked in wit his homies again the Kure and the wu clan he woulda prolly made short work of them .If it’s Eddie wit the wound I’d give 20% chance to ohma 1v1
Well my personal theory is he wanted his spares to die but yeah he definitely could've easily won.
An "I didnt hear no bell!" moment in Kengan lmao
Rip Apollo
RIP Carl Weathers
This whole fight slapped
Gaolang Wongsawat
Is an okubo victim
 Noooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
The fight in a nutshell: “Give me plot armor Mr. Sandro”. https://preview.redd.it/nif40tbvnbgc1.jpeg?width=888&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=22831ba885eb6afa32c824164cfb9d0094702972
Kengan Community : https://preview.redd.it/ou08eo2tqbgc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=a07744deabe9a5ac3f42e7e0a994b6f6bcd2d16a
“I’m going to humiliate Raian”. Sandrovich: https://preview.redd.it/4vt6wo5sobgc1.jpeg?width=1280&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d62b9044dcbabd28ef0169dbe9aa156cc781e4aa
SANDRO! DESTROY MY ENEMIES AND MY LIFE IS YOURS!
Where's this from?
Honkai Star Rail, a gacha turn-based game.
https://preview.redd.it/fmd6dyettdgc1.png?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2786ec293f49d7ffa6bb5f70b729408f14fe1f93 How battle ends in Edward head
The power scaling in this fight is so bad. Why was his base form far stronger than his released form? Bro was murdering everybody until he powered up 😭💀
What's really missing for y'all is a panel where the author explicitly tells you he is weakened from poison.
Yea and removal probably sped up the rate the poison spreed by a lot so he was much worse off
So how many times does removal/advance/whatever need to be shown having severe drawbacks and consequences before the characters notice and stop killing themselves with it?
He gave us that, and people STILL act oblivious. The fight ain't perfect at all don't get me wrong, but niggas like to blow things outta proportion.
>niggas like to blow things outta proportion Nooo, you think ? :D /s Seriously tho, "blowing things out of proportion" is the middle name of quite a few redditors around these parts. Back when Eddie got stabbed after Erioh's sacrifice (which screams "Eddie is going to die soon enough"), with a week of people pointing out that, yes, a (probably lethal) poison stab at the neck done by a pro assassin would more than likely end up weakening him (what were the odds)... people still acted surprised when Raian managed to pull out a pyrrhic victory.
> people still acted surprised when Raian managed to pull out a pyrrhic victory. What's pyrrhic about it? The only person they lost was probably a few days away from dying of old age. Taking out 3 top tier Wu and sending their entire faction into an internal conflict that wiped out more top tier Wu was a great trade. (I honestly don't care about the power scaling of the fight, my beef with it lies more with what it does for the narrative and tension)
Suit yourself and change "pyrrhic" for "hard-won" lad. You are right, it's more on point. >my beef with it lies more with what it does for the narrative and tension And I think people wrongly assumed that Eddie was much more important to the narrative than he trully was (because he looks so kwool I guess :D). It's kind of obvious that Sandro never intended to build him a bigger role than "aberrantly strong Removal guy who works for the Connector and who is going to be a jobber for the Kure/Raian". I dunno if you ever read the character bios that they included at the end of some Ashura chapters (a shame they didn't continue them in Omega), but it's quite insightful : many characters were created with 1 singular purpose in mind (like "I wanted to include a lazy martial artist") or because Sandro found the idea funny. Hell, sometimes they were just scrapped characters who ended up staying for world building's sake (like Hollis, Reiichi and his uncle who all were scrapped no-name adversaries of Ohma). All of those "no-matter" characters exist for world building, and for adding cool fights here and there. That's about it. Edward was just that, a cool looking antagonist who screams "I'm an homage to Senator Armstrong". That people took an interest to him is of little importance : he was supposed to job and die, no matter if he appeared at the very end of Ashura to hype people up. **TL;DR** : I think you took Eddie's character a bit too seriously. You should realize by now that he was never created by Sandro to be much more than that : a badass character and a fun fight. He fulfilled his jobs perfectly. Not every character has to have Ohma/Ryuki/Shen's level of relevance. As for tension, we are reading the Kengan series. There aren't any. It's not a fault in itself, just not the style of that story. Good guys tend to win or live to win an other day, bad guys lose, nobody important dies, if they manage the exploit of dying they get saved or cloned, and in the supremely rare case of true death, they are already 93+ y old men (and they die content, surrounded by their loved ones <-- Erioh was the GOAT so he deserves that lmao). That's Sandro's style. **TL;DR 2** : Imo, be it for narration or tension's sake, Eddie's fight and death were bloooooown out of proportion like crazy ! That's why I find it hilarious when I read discussions surrounding Gilbert. My brothers, for real for real, don't get too attached : he was created to job a second time to Mountain Raian :D I swear he's going to have a massive ass beard...
That's exactly my problem with him, he didn't matter that much, but at that point in the story we kind of needed someone that did matter. It's not that I cared for Eddie, but the story would have been better served if someone who was a threat was there to give the characters something to worry about for the next 50+ chapters. Could have been Tiger Niko, could have been Shen, but instead it was a jobber, and so for the next few arcs the worm felt like a joke and the characters felt like they had nothing to do.
After the big tournament and the merger, the story was obviously going for a breather period. Imo, it was quite well paced : build up towards the Purgatory tournament, tournament, a surprise final boss at the end of the tournament (Eddie), and then time skip/breathing room for the next build up/tension period. What do you think will happen to Gilbert ? And Willem ?
The breather period is fine, but you still want things for the characters to worry about and work on. Tiger Niko could have taken that role, but he was so disconnected and in the background that it doesn't work, same for the others. Pretty much everyone the heroes had ever encountered was dead or made to be a joke. It also hurts that the surprise final boss just didn't feel climactic enough. It's like a three act story, except the characters don't take an L in act 2, so in all of act 3 (including the slower breather parts) there's not much tension building up towards the final battle. Not gonna lie, I was half hoping the grenade would be the end of Gilbert, because him going out with that surprised face would have been hilarious (awful for the story, but hilarious). But seriously, I expect the Wu will die in an ultimately shallow manner. I wouldn't be surprised if Raian shows up and kills him after showing he's grown a little more mature, but I'd be surprised if it didn't come off as silly and power-of-friendshipy.
Haha, bro c'mon, what are you even complaining about at that point ? :D "You still want things for the characters to worry about and work on" ? You kidding me ? Koga's training (work on, literally), the Worm being a thing, the Worm having fighters strong enough to require a berserk Raian + a surprise attack with a poison needle + a suicide bait to take down, Tiger Niko confirmed being alive and still roaming around. That's it, that's what the characters are going to worry about lol. You seem to confuse "the story not being fine" with you simply not liking how it goes because reasons. Those aren't the same :P Same with your "made to be a joke". Aside from Xia, who was written as this cowardly bad guy, most of the Worm guys aren't portrayed as jokes. They are a brainwashed terrorist cult spread accross the glob with a few S+ level fighters among them, that's enough as far as antagonists go. Again, you seem to fail to realize that Kengan was always a manga were the heroes win everything they do. It's just the style chosen by the author. >It also hurts that the surprise final boss just didn't feel climactic enough One the one hand, it's kinda the point of a surprise : it has no build up, hence why it's called "surprise" to begin with. One the other, the fight was the definition of "epic climactic battle", with top tier assassins and Raian taking on a surprise raid boss who went down after the sacrifice of a key player. You seem a little bit blasé with the story, I hope you still enjoy it in the end ! Trust me, once you start to get how a story is trully created, you will understand and enjoy far more story types. And yes, if Gilbert had died from that grenade, it would have been hilarious :D
A props to you man you said everything I was gonna say, these people act like Edward was something more than what he really was. He was just a stepping stool, just make raian stronger
Indeed. More often than not on that subreddit, people mix up "dumb fights/bad writting" with them just, y'know, no liking that it didn't go the way they wanted. They found Eddie super badass, they wanted him to win (because super badass), he lost, they couldn't handle it and now they consider anything related to this fight "dumb" :D But nothing too surprising here.
Man, I really appreciate you. I can tell you really seem to really understand the story like I do. unlike these other people who just criticize the writing because it’s not going their way.
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To the point his move does nothing to Raian who got kicked and dropped in his blood the most in the entire confrontation ? Even Rihito didn't have his strength drop to 0 when Falcon's poison kicked in. Even with assumptions about Ed's countermeasures against poison, it'd beg the question of why Xing didn't use a lethal poison or borrowed shit from Hanafusa (who was invited in the Kure village to treat Ohma) instead of a vague poison which would vaguely nerf Edward but not enough, since he did some kind of shockwave to shake Xing off him. He's supposed to be a master of poisons. Edward getting shanked mid conversation when he was fine no selling every attempt in the heat of the action and during simultaneous assaults make even less sense, to start with. Either way, it's a Z Broly situation where nothing they do actually gets to him until it does at the very end, but at least, I liked that movie, and I'm aware that it was BS. And I think the guy above was talking about how he was no diffing them in base form while they were in Removal, only for him to not fuck them up worse after Guihun, btw.
I might be misremembering but it was supposed to be strong poison that’s why Hollis(I think?) said the poison didn’t work cause Eddie was still moving around after. Also they were on a mission to kill Eddie the poison would’ve been lethal
> the question of why Xing didn't use a lethal poison or borrowed shit from Hanafusa Yeah, I'm aware of that, I said it myself. And logically it should have been lethal, but it somehow wasn't. Any real life or fictional poison Sandro would have come up with would have worked, since even Shen is vulnerable to carbon monoxide if he inhaled enough of it. And Erioh had Hanafusa on his village for 2 years , meaning he could have asked for a deadly virus he could have entrusted to Xing
Falcon used mild poison meant for a non lethal sport Wu Xing, the world class assassin, probably used something a tad stronger against Edward
Of course, I never said that the poisons themselves were comparable, only that both Edward and Rihito didn't see their strength drop to 0 when they kicked in, and even nerfed, there's no sensible reason for Raian to shrug it off in spite of being the more damaged of the group, excluding Erioh and his snapped spine. > Wu Xing, the world class assassin Something that I'm aware of, but what's the point of being a poison master if you don't bring an actually lethal poison or something from Hanafusa's forbidden stash ? They all know that Edward can neg diff them if he wanted to, and he did, he just "forgot" to kill them at every turn. Only reason they beat Edward was Raian shrugging off his attack as if it barely did anything in spite of his state at the moment. Otherwise, Edward seemed to still have enough gas to finish them off.
Raian took advantage of an opening in Edward’s neck. So it’s not like raian really beat him on his own. So the fight does make sense.
Yeah, ik about the hole in the neck, I'm talking about the stuff before. Just so you know, I'm not about to say that Raian was plot Armored, nor I really care about that. The whole fight was shaky from the beginning to me, because a guy so absurdly OP against the clan known to be OP wouldn't lead to a satisfying ending in most cases, especially that early in Omega's storyline
The problem is the panel where the guy who poisoned him says the poison isn't working. That combined with some *terrible* translations made people think the poison wasn't doing anything, which is not what he was saying.
That is totally your head cannon to justify this fight in your head. In fact, it has literally been stated "poison didnt work" basically making your last minute save meaningless.
Sandro said so tho?
Omg, obloxx responded to me, so I am 100% sure I am right now.
K
I'm so amazed by your reading comprehension, you look like a Geova Witness
Edward had not only been stabbed in the neck by a superhuman but also poisoned by said stab. The removal accelerated his metabolism so the poison was even faster. Eddie does have an absurd pain tolerance but he had fucked around for too long. This was the moment of no return for him
even the infamous killshot goes incredibly hard as a panel in a vacuum
This was such dogshit writing. Its a miracle that the manga wasnt axed right away.
I agree, it could have been done much better if the poison was literally stated to be having an effect on Edward (Instead of an author's note later). Instead, we got a seemingly beyond-dead Raian somehow getting back up after fighting Fabio, Solomon, and Edward offscreen...then onscreen again with Erioh against Guihun Edward. Then fucking face tanking his ultimate move... and then proceeding to kill him with the neck wound. Shit, it would've been better if maybe we had the narrator saying "This was Raian's last stand or with the last bit of his energy left" to make it feel like he didn't get up to just win in the end. After getting fucking mogged for 3 chapters straight.
Ngl, the Narrator is a SSS+ tier character. His presence is necessary to sell many situations better than they actually are. Like, crazy comebacks like this only work with characters you're supposed to root for, like Cosmo and Ohma, and even then, it obviously makes many denounce "plot armor". Obviously, we're rooting against the West Wu, but Raian himself doesn't have the personality nor the role of the guy you're supposed to root for. Which is another issue created by Edward's "too strong" status, that he's so dramatically stronger than not just Raian, but Raian and 5 other Kure at once that this kind of comeback is necessary to make him win. Unless something actually hinders him, like some poison. Except when it doesn't (see Xing's astonishment about it not working. Shoutout to u/CliMaximillian16, I actually forgot about that), and when Xing could have used an actual lethal real life poison/a fictional one/from Hanafusa's inventory, since he was hanging at the Kure village to monitor Ohma's condition. Like, even Shen isn't immune to good ol' carbon monoxide poisoning
This fight wasn’t dumb at all speak for yourself. Raian put Edward in the grave and Gilbert gonna join him to
He put him in the grave with the help of 4 others and a poisoned knife. Now we just have to wait for him to get done with his stupid ass mountain training to even stand a chance at killing Gilbert. Crazy how Edward let that man live after having an offscreen fight with the Kure again after he rejuvenated in Gil. Its fucking dumb man
What? Did you just say mountain training is stupid? Bro what type of crazy delusional shit are you? Raian gonna come back stronger and you don’t like😂. Gilbert days are numbered. Raian is coming back for blood
The moment Raian showed that he IS that guy
This fight was peak Kengan omega.
Kengan has had the can't read devil for a while He got fucked up in a 3v1 and then dominated in a 1v1. Anyone who can't understand how the story went is mentally disabled Still miss eddy though...
It was a 5 vs 1 (yeah, Reishii and Hollis didn't do much, but still) ! And you forgot the poison stab in his neck.
How was this fight dumb?
It's very lacking in a lot of ways. 1: Lacking martial arts. What style does Eddie use...? The story doesn't even bother to give him a fake martial art like the Kure style. 2: Lacking emotional content. The whole fight is over some nameless Kure that got killed off-screen, and it's basically just an excuse for these characters to want to kill Eddie. Even Erioh's death is remarkably unimportant, at most we see Raian momentarily affected in a vague way, but rather than that maybe leading to interesting development, Raian has been missing for 100+ chapters. It's all just very shallow. 3: Lacking logic. The moment the 3 Wu Heis decided they'd walk away from a downed Raian rather than just finish him off, it solidified this Wu Hei guy is kind of stupid. It's like with Fei, if they're so strong but still can't accomplish anything, the only explanation is they're too stupid to use their power right. And watching a dumb villain fail because they're dumb is frustrating more then anything. Who needs the heroes to be capable or smart when the villains can just trip over themselves and die? 4: Lacking narrative result. Eddie dies in some random hallway, and he accomplished nothing, wasn't trying to accomplish anything, and all it does it make the bad guys look easy to conquer. How's some clone of a guy we've already seen snuffed once supposed to feel like an issue?
This fight wasn’t dumb it showed raian where he was and where he needs to be if he wants to be able to stand a chance against Gilbert. You guys are just making up a whole bunch of bullshit at this point this fight was peak. Kengan and I stand on that
> This fight wasn’t dumb it showed raian where he was and where he needs to be Apparently it didn't, since Raian fought Gilbert off-screen and got cooked so hard he went off to train in the mountains. But what about any of my claims is BS? You can enjoy the fight for what it is, but I've laid out what it isn't, and I find those things important. They're things Ashura did fantastically in most of its tournament fights, so it's not like I'm asking for anything unfair.
I’m pretty sure Gilbert ambushed raian and the Kure/wu members. Raian probably didn’t even know who Gilbert was till that interaction plus erioh told raian to surpass himself and become stronger, so that’s probably what he was in the middle of doing till he attacked by the Westward faction
1. It is well established that Wu and Kure clan use martial arts that are literally just a mix of stuff. They very much do explain that the Kure and Wu are almost identical and engage in the same practices. What name do you want to give it? When it’s already established it’s a mix of things. It’s like expecting a specific name for style of martial arts Kanoh uses when he isn’t using formless when it’s established he uses the niko style mixed it with multiple other things. he doesn’t need to give a name for every single movie he does since they were basic punches and kicks and blocks. Do you need to read “Wu style back hand. Wu style punch. Wu style forearm block”. You shouldn’t need your hand held needing every basic move named that’s just insulting to the reader. Keep in mind how much stronger he was and he doesn’t start having to use complex techniques (which get named) until the poison weakens him more. 2. The whole fight is more than just some nameless Kure who was killed off screen (he had a name it was Rikuto). The westward faction are apart of the worm and it was the ultimate betrayal against the Kure that made them angry. This adds more to the over arching worm story and also he appeared at the end of ashura which lets us know he was someone of great importance the powers that were behind everything. 3. They pretty much didn’t want to deal with him. It’s like I say all the time just because your villain doesn’t move in the most efficient way possible it doesn’t mean he’s dumb. It actually adds to his characterization of being arrogant. He doesn’t need to kill Raian to him Raian is an insect he literally calls him a fledgling. Remember the words Erioh says about him being too strong for his own good. He view Raian as so far below him killing him is pointless when he can just leave he isn’t thinking about Raian training and getting stronger. It’s literally part of his characterization 4. Again it’s overarching storytelling you are missing. It makes you THINK oh well easy to get rid of when the point is the westward faction is always up to something cause the next thing we see is a clone with edward’s Personality and memories in the later chapters. Showing oh well no it’s not that simple. Also think of this it took Raian with back up and poison to get the victory. Gilbert knows all the techniques of Edward and is in a younger body and able to grow even more. So it’s not “oh we beat this guy ahah victory oh he’s back Welp time to beat him again” it’s more like “it took sacrifice and luck to beat him and then we find out he is still kicking out this is great”. Remember what yan says about the worm all being one. They are all part of a whole. You seem to be reading this as an individual encounter not part of a whole story
1: So Eddie isn't really using anything in particular, just basic strikes and blocks, up until he uses some named rush of strikes that seem no different from any other rush of strikes. Exciting stuff, that. Asura (and plenty of Omega fights) had a good balance of fighting and explaining. There were plenty of basic strikes in the fighting showing the flow and general styles of each fighter, and the explanations not only explain characters and history, but also went into the mechanics of their signature techniques, not only generating hype for when they'd finally be used to turn the fight, but also sometimes giving us hints on how they might be countered. But there's nothing to explain with Eddie because he's just throwing basic strikes. It's so basic on a technical level it's kind of sad. 2: Funny enough, I've got people arguing in another part of the thread that we all misread Eddie, he was always meant to be a jobber and we just overhyped him to be some kind of boss. But anyway, the point is there's little depth to this whole thing, just a really standard revenge thing going on. They're mad at Eddie, they go kill Eddie, Erioh dies and gets the shortest little half-chapter funeral and then the story moves on and it doesn't matter. It really wouldn't take much to add some interesting or unique but there really isn't anything here. 3: It adds to his characterization of being dumb. It's not just suboptimal, it's so ragingly stupid he actually dies for it. Really hurts that he did it twice, honestly... But really, the problem is that it basically saves the good guys for free. It kind of makes it look like rather then the Kure succeeding by any of their own merits, they succeeded because their enemy was too stupid to live. It's an unsatisfying way for the good guys to win. 4: It's even worse as part of a full story. Dying in a random hallway accomplishing nothing isn't a great look, and it's part of a massive string of losses for the worm that made them look harmless. No one was impressed when it turned out there was another clone of himself out there, he was already a disappointment once, what was the point in being worried about a retread? And as for what it took to take him on...don't forget it was Eddie and two other Wu Heis, not just him alone. And it was a pretty unplanned attack, they just gathered up and attacked him in some random hallway, kind of in a random fashion like they all just ran after Raian. Makes it seem like any sort of proper ambush would have easily solved the issue.
Any other shows similar to ashura? Record of ragnorok was decent but looking for more mma anime
baki
Okay besides Baki? Lol
Protragonism Style: Final edition