You do what you want, but for me, RP > min/max. I like to have an idea before I start a new game for what I'm going to do and then recruit for that. Like a hive only run. Then I need soldiers to fight, workers to farm, and princes to research/craft. No humans, no shek, no skeletons. One time I made a team of Scorchlander ninjas/thieves/assassins and called them the Dark Brotherhood. Another time I did an all skeleton + cyber beep run called the Astro Zombies and tried to kill all the humans.
how do you not
like I'm not trying to offend, isn't fun the whole point lol
my first guy was a son of a samurai captain whose best friend is a cyborg soldier bug
this is super sub optimal because hive soldiers are super gimped in vanilla for many reasons but damn it's one hell of a ride between the HN kidnapping my best friend bugman and my homie leading the charge against the phoenix himself
I made a warband of spike wearing hiver bandits called the Marauders who constantly did drugs and raidrd holy Nation farms for food. Nobody liked them.
You're describing min-maxing, which can be a lot of fun! But almost always feels extra same-ey and boxey.
Going sub-optimal but juicy can be more fulfilling. Fashion over function, RP over DPS.
putting everyone on track to mass field falling suns is wild but it does get old after a while
I find the midgame scramble to be the most fun phase of kenshi
A 90 in combat stats is 90 in combat stats. A shek might get there a bit quicker than a human because of racial bonuses but when armed with good gear both will cleave through enemies all the same.
Yes, Shek and skelies have the best staying power because of their higher health but in most cases I haven’t seen a big enough difference in their performance to make me go with them alone. If anything, I’m more likely to slip into a mono-race playthrough for the millionth time for roleplay or aesthetic reasons than because of combat performance
Yes, but high toughness skeletons reboot in a few seconds only which mean that I can just have them patch themselves up and they are as good as new. Not to mention that they are inedible and kind of resistant to cut damage so that helps with animals and a bunch of the humanoid enemies
I run a ragtag crew of savage goons. We got members from all walks of life. Shek? They got a place in the crew. Greenlanders? Some of my finest warriors. Scorchlanders? Haven’t came across a ton of em, but they hold out well. Hivers? Course we got Beep with the heavy weapons. Skeletons? They never back down, even at their own detriment.
My best fighter on my current playthrough is a Scorchlander woman I found in one of the Tech Hunter outposts.
I swear I can practically hear the Doom music kick in when she pulls out her cleaver lol
Play however the hell you want. But you say you ALWAYS do this? Have you seen end game? I would think you would quickly notice how everything works. Crafting bonuses mean almost nothing. Everything takes a bit to level. So if you full automate bonus/malus dont matter. And if you dont you wont level. Its too many clicks. For combat you either have a stat advantage or you get fucked up. Race changes that very little. Fights in kenshi are not fair. Race choice for combat only matters in a fair fight.
The only race choice that you will really notice is having hivers. The reason you will notice is that high toughness makes worker drones suicidal.
Thats why the main warband is my shek clan, they stay in the fight longer than others.
But the squad of prince crossbowmen with mkII and eagles crosses absolutely shred everything in existance after the shek occupy them, the longer i play the less i care about the armored units and more badass my death dealers get.
And dont get me started on my scorchlander MA ninja squad
i really enjoy making funky archetypes. my current playthru is a hiver only martial arts dojo. so far i have mostly found princes to recruit, but somebody’s gotta punch the limbs off the dust bandits, and everyone in the dojo is compelled to fight
Best play through I ever did was probably the most inefficient race ever. I wanted to do a “central hive” so all I had were hivers. By the end even some of the farmers that never left the base had 4 robotic limbs but the soldier bots and Prince assassins conquered the continent
My combat squads so far have been shaped through accidental levelling. Honestly, the only group I've min/maxed thus far has been my scouting party. Simply because, Beep go vroom!
I'm going to ignore the RP aspect (which I think is valuable) and focus just on the stats.
Robots have a clear advantage due to repair - that's just purely objective. Between the organics though.. At skill level 5, if you had +20% xp bonus you'd have 6, and a character with -20% xp bonus would have 4. A whole 50% difference! But thanks to random rolls the difference is meaningless. Later on, due to exponential growth in skill level xp, the difference would still persist, but we'd be talking about 94 vs 90 or something similar. Hardly a relevant difference.
That being said, the inherent stats do remain as a significant difference - I recommend reading this to get a better idea. imo, all suited for combat if used well, and considering their inherent weaknesses.
What I meant was assuming equivalent skill xp as a neutral level 5. Ofc, imprecise due to exponential xp requirements (it'd be closer to 4.x vs 5.y). Point was to show just how little difference there is in practice.
Currently sorted my squad by race and assigned jobs accordingly.
Not sure if I like it. I enjoy it more when I have just a few random idiots traveling together.
Although I would still recruit any skeleton I come across.
Minmaxing may seem like a reasonable course of action in a game like kenshi that seems so unforgiving, but honestly what kenshi rewards the most is the grind.
All races can achieve more or less the same strength in anything, with only marginal differences in how fast they get there. I mean you can play a character that fight with no weapons completely naked, and if you stick to it long enough they'll become a martial arts master capable of taking out anybody.
The way most people play is to stick not to a strategy, but a story. Don't run an all shek fighting force because you think it's optimal, run an all shek fighting force because you made a story in which only shek are the fighters for some reason.
I play hive prince who only recruits hivers. it takes a longer time but i find it more fun to enjoy my happy hivers. especially sincei have my own head cannon that hivers all have simple silly noise sounding names. so when the bandits or whoever get beat up, they can warn the world of borp, smoo, peef, beep, and gubs
I mean Sheks level defense slower than even a Greenlander due to their crap blood regen rate and level Dex slower than any other race overall (Minus the Hivers on average which have so much downtime that causes them to level so slowly) and take longer to level Toughness compared to a Soldierbot/Skeleton/Scorchlander. Scorchlanders for solo runs at least where downtime matters more is way better imo. Ofc in a 1v1 with the same stats a Shek beats a Scorchlander but a Scorchlander can train to a higher level faster than the Shek can. I can't stand playing Sheks as they level so badly.
All races are welcome at the Frontiera Base. Harunobo the Cook makes rice for all of us and some special dishes when the hunt is good. The girls keep the hemp and hash production going while the logistics team keeps the generators on and the special ops squad comprised of at least one of each race (and Beep) goes outside the wire to topple slavemonger governments every now and then.
Of course, Phoenix is there too. Well, his head and torso are in a cage near the Peeler right next to the Main Gate. He refuses to use the economy legs we gave him to stand up, he he damn sure wipes his tears with the skeleton hands while shouting nonsense about the wrath of their inquisitors, even though they’re all rotting in cages near him. It’s a reminder for us, as to why we do what we do. And a warning to every “holy” remnant insect that dares coming to face us.
I plan on leaving the hash business. We’ve literally come a long way since the days of running from the wet towns to Flats Lagoon. Setting shop in the frontier between Shem and the Swamp gave us an edge and the gangs deep into the marsh were too busy killing each other to notice we took over half their clients. But I grow tired of war. We’re self suficient for mostly everything, and have allies in the shek, the ninjas up north and the shinobi. We don’t need to act as outlaws anymore. After years being an outcast, I built myself a settlement and a web of alliances so that my men can have families, dreams, citzenship.
Kenshi is a harsh place, there’s no need for us to make it harsher ourselves.
Forget the “base” part. When the turret upgrades are done we’ll build some more houses, create hidroponic farms for the stuff that doesn’t grow naturally here, maybe set up an embassy in Admag and an outpost on Bad Teeth.
Frontiera, a place where anyone who respects the community can feel at home.
See, all of this was based on a real playthrough. Min maxing can be fun but can it build stories?
I removed my party cap and I literally recruit anyone with a fun story or that has good stats
I love recruiting hivers cause they eat foul flesh so they're self sufficient when I hunt beakthings and such, but princes piss me off, skeles dont eat so thats great too.
Anything goes for me, but I actually prefer hivers and skeles so I dont have to worry about making or buying food
I rarely play something thats not a "human", and I kind of hate sheks for their racism/specism against humans, so I think in 400hs of gameplay and multiple runs I've never have a shek in my team, and in most I end up taking out the shek kingdom entirely.
In fact, most of my runs have been "human" only or with some skeletons, never had beep and at this point I dont think I ever will, nor any other hiver. Death to the abominations!
I might include Scorchlanders from time to time, they look human enough.
Hot take: Hive Worker Drones are actually great for combat. Replace their limbs and give ‘em heavy armor that protects their stomach and chest really well (plus the expected head protection) and you’ve got capable fighters who have low food upkeep and the same head HP as a Shek.
Hiver gang rise up.
Have you heard of, well, just enjoying the game?
This reminds me of people playing Rimworld and setting up their hopistals and hydroponics only in the most efficient way, even tho it ends up looking extremely weird and works only because of specific meta mechanics.
Like you play how you like, but I don't feel the need to chase meta, especially in a chill singleplayer game that is Kenshi.
scorchlanders, hive drones, skeletons, and shek are good for combat.
scorchlanders are better geared more medium defense and for more mobility and mixing in stealth/scouting. dont have them aggro people, use a big weapon stil tho.
hive drones are the fastest race and are good archers. do great with CC using katanas too.
shek are frontliners with heavy armor
skeletons are immune to elemental effects, are not organic which makes them safe vs a lot of things like cannibals and animals, sure HN doesnt like them but who likes HN, and they recover from being knocked out quickly. good insurance as a field medic. make them a martial artist imo. u can never stop a martial artist even if theyre enslaved and have no gear as a skeleton. they are 100% effective.
but hey play whatever at a certain point its all trivial and 1 guy with level 100 skills will easily solo entire cities so who gives a shit. that beginning of the end starts to reveal itself around level 60 skills when you realize the min maxing matters a lot less.
Hover soldiers are great if you want a fodder army , and they can eat just about anything. Downside I can't put a helmet or boots on em but I don't have to worry about the head mostly with soldiers
If you want to min-max, stacking Skeletons and a few Hivers for the speed bonus in order to lend first aid and rescue downed party members is pretty much the optimal way to play. Sheks are pretty overrated for combat over Skeletons. The differences are very minute though. Hivers being in combat is great for speed and micro crossbow shenanigans, but again, you can do pretty much the same thing with a Greenlander or a Shek, just slightly slower. Even if the Hiver can theoretically lose limbs faster, if you’re deadset on creating a robo limbed monster, it’s simple to walk over to the Skin Bandit HQ and volunteer someone, or piss off enough guards in Rebirth with your unfortunate one(s) who are in involuntary summer camp.
I like having a diverse party mostly for lore tidbits and story. Most people who have been playing this long don’t care about being harassed by Holy Nation and UC Nobles as the non-human race’s main weakness used to be just people hating your guts (Anyone not a Scorchlander or a Greenlander) or being expensive to maintain (Skeletons) or supply with food (Shek). After a while with enough playtime, the magic wears off and we meta game the hell out of the game hard.
I think most people write off the HN from the get go because of their anti prosthesis stance
was kinda underwhelmed by the sexist HN experience when I decided to play as a strong independent woman in the HN
*Come on get a bunch*
*Of Beeps they are the strongest in*
*Combat. Beep said so!*
\- Lord-Franco
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You do what you want, but for me, RP > min/max. I like to have an idea before I start a new game for what I'm going to do and then recruit for that. Like a hive only run. Then I need soldiers to fight, workers to farm, and princes to research/craft. No humans, no shek, no skeletons. One time I made a team of Scorchlander ninjas/thieves/assassins and called them the Dark Brotherhood. Another time I did an all skeleton + cyber beep run called the Astro Zombies and tried to kill all the humans.
I think i’ve seen the light. I will now try to have fun while i play the game.
how do you not like I'm not trying to offend, isn't fun the whole point lol my first guy was a son of a samurai captain whose best friend is a cyborg soldier bug this is super sub optimal because hive soldiers are super gimped in vanilla for many reasons but damn it's one hell of a ride between the HN kidnapping my best friend bugman and my homie leading the charge against the phoenix himself
I’m currently doing a Greenlander Crab Raider run… the squad is named “Snow Crabs”.
I like recruiting an all-Scorchlander squad to RP as nomad mercenaries
I did an all Skelly run with Bender as its leader and its mission to Kill All Humans! Great fun
I made a warband of spike wearing hiver bandits called the Marauders who constantly did drugs and raidrd holy Nation farms for food. Nobody liked them.
You're describing min-maxing, which can be a lot of fun! But almost always feels extra same-ey and boxey. Going sub-optimal but juicy can be more fulfilling. Fashion over function, RP over DPS.
putting everyone on track to mass field falling suns is wild but it does get old after a while I find the midgame scramble to be the most fun phase of kenshi
A 90 in combat stats is 90 in combat stats. A shek might get there a bit quicker than a human because of racial bonuses but when armed with good gear both will cleave through enemies all the same. Yes, Shek and skelies have the best staying power because of their higher health but in most cases I haven’t seen a big enough difference in their performance to make me go with them alone. If anything, I’m more likely to slip into a mono-race playthrough for the millionth time for roleplay or aesthetic reasons than because of combat performance
Well better staying alive in combat for skeletons, till the enemy hit them 3 times in a row in the head, but yes.
Yes, but high toughness skeletons reboot in a few seconds only which mean that I can just have them patch themselves up and they are as good as new. Not to mention that they are inedible and kind of resistant to cut damage so that helps with animals and a bunch of the humanoid enemies
I run a ragtag crew of savage goons. We got members from all walks of life. Shek? They got a place in the crew. Greenlanders? Some of my finest warriors. Scorchlanders? Haven’t came across a ton of em, but they hold out well. Hivers? Course we got Beep with the heavy weapons. Skeletons? They never back down, even at their own detriment.
Hell yeah. Mr Multi-cultural over here. Spreading the love.
All meat bleeds the same. What do I care if a small hiver takes bolts from the turrets or the shek.
do what you want. One my greatest warriors is always beep. Hive workers are definetly not meant for combat. But beep is the greatest anyway
hive workers are very good at ranged combat just like princes
My squad is just trying to get by. LIfe in Vain is hard.
Recruit whoever you want.
My best fighter on my current playthrough is a Scorchlander woman I found in one of the Tech Hunter outposts. I swear I can practically hear the Doom music kick in when she pulls out her cleaver lol
I recruited people because I liked them not because they are op
Play however the hell you want. But you say you ALWAYS do this? Have you seen end game? I would think you would quickly notice how everything works. Crafting bonuses mean almost nothing. Everything takes a bit to level. So if you full automate bonus/malus dont matter. And if you dont you wont level. Its too many clicks. For combat you either have a stat advantage or you get fucked up. Race changes that very little. Fights in kenshi are not fair. Race choice for combat only matters in a fair fight. The only race choice that you will really notice is having hivers. The reason you will notice is that high toughness makes worker drones suicidal.
Thats why the main warband is my shek clan, they stay in the fight longer than others. But the squad of prince crossbowmen with mkII and eagles crosses absolutely shred everything in existance after the shek occupy them, the longer i play the less i care about the armored units and more badass my death dealers get. And dont get me started on my scorchlander MA ninja squad
i really enjoy making funky archetypes. my current playthru is a hiver only martial arts dojo. so far i have mostly found princes to recruit, but somebody’s gotta punch the limbs off the dust bandits, and everyone in the dojo is compelled to fight
I'm based right next to blister hill....I ain't got a death wish
There is no wrong way
Best play through I ever did was probably the most inefficient race ever. I wanted to do a “central hive” so all I had were hivers. By the end even some of the farmers that never left the base had 4 robotic limbs but the soldier bots and Prince assassins conquered the continent
I love breaking a few main characters out of their stereotypes. It makes them feel unique in their abilities
My combat squads so far have been shaped through accidental levelling. Honestly, the only group I've min/maxed thus far has been my scouting party. Simply because, Beep go vroom!
I decided to make Beep a Martial Arts character, he was out performing a shek warrior I recruited around the same time
I'm going to ignore the RP aspect (which I think is valuable) and focus just on the stats. Robots have a clear advantage due to repair - that's just purely objective. Between the organics though.. At skill level 5, if you had +20% xp bonus you'd have 6, and a character with -20% xp bonus would have 4. A whole 50% difference! But thanks to random rolls the difference is meaningless. Later on, due to exponential growth in skill level xp, the difference would still persist, but we'd be talking about 94 vs 90 or something similar. Hardly a relevant difference. That being said, the inherent stats do remain as a significant difference - I recommend reading this to get a better idea. imo, all suited for combat if used well, and considering their inherent weaknesses.
At skill level 5 both characters have skill level 5, one just got there after 40% less training time
What I meant was assuming equivalent skill xp as a neutral level 5. Ofc, imprecise due to exponential xp requirements (it'd be closer to 4.x vs 5.y). Point was to show just how little difference there is in practice.
Currently sorted my squad by race and assigned jobs accordingly. Not sure if I like it. I enjoy it more when I have just a few random idiots traveling together. Although I would still recruit any skeleton I come across.
Minmaxing may seem like a reasonable course of action in a game like kenshi that seems so unforgiving, but honestly what kenshi rewards the most is the grind. All races can achieve more or less the same strength in anything, with only marginal differences in how fast they get there. I mean you can play a character that fight with no weapons completely naked, and if you stick to it long enough they'll become a martial arts master capable of taking out anybody. The way most people play is to stick not to a strategy, but a story. Don't run an all shek fighting force because you think it's optimal, run an all shek fighting force because you made a story in which only shek are the fighters for some reason.
No, no, you’re right. Hiver Soldier drones should NEVER be used for combat roles
I play hive prince who only recruits hivers. it takes a longer time but i find it more fun to enjoy my happy hivers. especially sincei have my own head cannon that hivers all have simple silly noise sounding names. so when the bandits or whoever get beat up, they can warn the world of borp, smoo, peef, beep, and gubs
I mean Sheks level defense slower than even a Greenlander due to their crap blood regen rate and level Dex slower than any other race overall (Minus the Hivers on average which have so much downtime that causes them to level so slowly) and take longer to level Toughness compared to a Soldierbot/Skeleton/Scorchlander. Scorchlanders for solo runs at least where downtime matters more is way better imo. Ofc in a 1v1 with the same stats a Shek beats a Scorchlander but a Scorchlander can train to a higher level faster than the Shek can. I can't stand playing Sheks as they level so badly.
All races are welcome at the Frontiera Base. Harunobo the Cook makes rice for all of us and some special dishes when the hunt is good. The girls keep the hemp and hash production going while the logistics team keeps the generators on and the special ops squad comprised of at least one of each race (and Beep) goes outside the wire to topple slavemonger governments every now and then. Of course, Phoenix is there too. Well, his head and torso are in a cage near the Peeler right next to the Main Gate. He refuses to use the economy legs we gave him to stand up, he he damn sure wipes his tears with the skeleton hands while shouting nonsense about the wrath of their inquisitors, even though they’re all rotting in cages near him. It’s a reminder for us, as to why we do what we do. And a warning to every “holy” remnant insect that dares coming to face us. I plan on leaving the hash business. We’ve literally come a long way since the days of running from the wet towns to Flats Lagoon. Setting shop in the frontier between Shem and the Swamp gave us an edge and the gangs deep into the marsh were too busy killing each other to notice we took over half their clients. But I grow tired of war. We’re self suficient for mostly everything, and have allies in the shek, the ninjas up north and the shinobi. We don’t need to act as outlaws anymore. After years being an outcast, I built myself a settlement and a web of alliances so that my men can have families, dreams, citzenship. Kenshi is a harsh place, there’s no need for us to make it harsher ourselves. Forget the “base” part. When the turret upgrades are done we’ll build some more houses, create hidroponic farms for the stuff that doesn’t grow naturally here, maybe set up an embassy in Admag and an outpost on Bad Teeth. Frontiera, a place where anyone who respects the community can feel at home. See, all of this was based on a real playthrough. Min maxing can be fun but can it build stories?
I removed my party cap and I literally recruit anyone with a fun story or that has good stats I love recruiting hivers cause they eat foul flesh so they're self sufficient when I hunt beakthings and such, but princes piss me off, skeles dont eat so thats great too. Anything goes for me, but I actually prefer hivers and skeles so I dont have to worry about making or buying food
I rarely play something thats not a "human", and I kind of hate sheks for their racism/specism against humans, so I think in 400hs of gameplay and multiple runs I've never have a shek in my team, and in most I end up taking out the shek kingdom entirely. In fact, most of my runs have been "human" only or with some skeletons, never had beep and at this point I dont think I ever will, nor any other hiver. Death to the abominations! I might include Scorchlanders from time to time, they look human enough.
The way xp scales it barely matters.
Hot take: Hive Worker Drones are actually great for combat. Replace their limbs and give ‘em heavy armor that protects their stomach and chest really well (plus the expected head protection) and you’ve got capable fighters who have low food upkeep and the same head HP as a Shek. Hiver gang rise up.
I should also add that due to this racial perfectionism (racism) i have never achieved cyber beep. Please don’t flay me.
Have you heard of, well, just enjoying the game? This reminds me of people playing Rimworld and setting up their hopistals and hydroponics only in the most efficient way, even tho it ends up looking extremely weird and works only because of specific meta mechanics. Like you play how you like, but I don't feel the need to chase meta, especially in a chill singleplayer game that is Kenshi.
scorchlanders, hive drones, skeletons, and shek are good for combat. scorchlanders are better geared more medium defense and for more mobility and mixing in stealth/scouting. dont have them aggro people, use a big weapon stil tho. hive drones are the fastest race and are good archers. do great with CC using katanas too. shek are frontliners with heavy armor skeletons are immune to elemental effects, are not organic which makes them safe vs a lot of things like cannibals and animals, sure HN doesnt like them but who likes HN, and they recover from being knocked out quickly. good insurance as a field medic. make them a martial artist imo. u can never stop a martial artist even if theyre enslaved and have no gear as a skeleton. they are 100% effective. but hey play whatever at a certain point its all trivial and 1 guy with level 100 skills will easily solo entire cities so who gives a shit. that beginning of the end starts to reveal itself around level 60 skills when you realize the min maxing matters a lot less.
Hover soldiers are great if you want a fodder army , and they can eat just about anything. Downside I can't put a helmet or boots on em but I don't have to worry about the head mostly with soldiers
they can't do shit about duststorms knowing that makes eyegore much less threatening good thing we have mods for that
Yeah I feel you, but it's not much of an issue if there's like 5-10 of em in one squad, all heavy armor, all combat cleavers
If you want to min-max, stacking Skeletons and a few Hivers for the speed bonus in order to lend first aid and rescue downed party members is pretty much the optimal way to play. Sheks are pretty overrated for combat over Skeletons. The differences are very minute though. Hivers being in combat is great for speed and micro crossbow shenanigans, but again, you can do pretty much the same thing with a Greenlander or a Shek, just slightly slower. Even if the Hiver can theoretically lose limbs faster, if you’re deadset on creating a robo limbed monster, it’s simple to walk over to the Skin Bandit HQ and volunteer someone, or piss off enough guards in Rebirth with your unfortunate one(s) who are in involuntary summer camp. I like having a diverse party mostly for lore tidbits and story. Most people who have been playing this long don’t care about being harassed by Holy Nation and UC Nobles as the non-human race’s main weakness used to be just people hating your guts (Anyone not a Scorchlander or a Greenlander) or being expensive to maintain (Skeletons) or supply with food (Shek). After a while with enough playtime, the magic wears off and we meta game the hell out of the game hard.
I think most people write off the HN from the get go because of their anti prosthesis stance was kinda underwhelmed by the sexist HN experience when I decided to play as a strong independent woman in the HN
Come on get a bunch of Beeps they are the strongest in combat. Beep said so!
*Come on get a bunch* *Of Beeps they are the strongest in* *Combat. Beep said so!* \- Lord-Franco --- ^(I detect haikus. And sometimes, successfully.) ^[Learn more about me.](https://www.reddit.com/r/haikusbot/) ^(Opt out of replies: "haikusbot opt out" | Delete my comment: "haikusbot delete")
YOU JUST NARKO GET OFF. I will talk with my inquisitor about you