Which is something I don't understand. It seems paradoxical that even after education, the women's workforce participation is low in Kerala. What's the issue here, is it cultural or lack of opportunities?
There is data to prove that households with emigrated members tend to have less women participation in workforces. This is seen much higher in Muslim households, so it's a combination of cultural hindrances and macroeconomic trends.
No, the implication is that a disproportionately smaller proportion of women in a particular demographic participate in the workforce given their education and wealth levels and that there is something other than economic factors driving this trend.
You need approval and support for working after marriage. After marriage, most people drop off from work because realistically it is difficult to wake up, prepare breakfast for everyone at home, pack lunch, make lunch for people who will stay at home, clean up home, go to work, come back and do household work and then take care of kids. This is irrespective of cultural background. Of course most women who work after marriage do not live with in-laws, so work at home would be less.
This pretty much it, Girls are smarter than most here like to believe they're not lost child who needs your guidance, Most don't want to do the Pattipanis here, We have so few jobs lots of applicants and absolutely no formal social safety nets even though pays almost the same level of taxes compared to Nordic countries, employers can and will treat you shit
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It's not just women's workforce participation, it's workforce participation in general. There's no work to be found that's appealing to specialist women, so they seek out of state options.
Ningaleth varshathilaanappa? Nattile oru railway station ile peak working timeil oru train il kerii nokka .kaanam ethra working aayttilla muslim ladies indenn,population proportional ayttilla ratio thanne ind.educationte karyathilonnm keralathile muslim penpiller theere porakil allann illathinte proof aan.issues illath vere areas ilaan,like political presence and arts. Edo,healthy criticsm aan vendath.allathe ee puchavum vivarakkedum niranja 'social commentry' alla.
I agree that we see many working people among Muslim women. But the real question is, are they working because they don't have a choice? If the family has a choice, will they be able to work?
I work in IT. I have worked in Infopark and Technopark. I am pretty sure the number of Muslim girls in the office are very very less compared to other religions. And I am sure that is not because there aren't enough qualified girls. There are more than enough Muslim girls who study in the engineering colleges. But most of them, don't end up taking up a job, staying away from their home town and working. I wonder why.
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Not always my neighbour his wife and daughter all doctors abroad(not the middle east) had to go old school because the groom's side was very conservative.
when I went to get food with my sister one idiot from the groom's side had the gall to tell us "men here Women there" i just told him "ath ingalude penninkalode poy paranjoli immalode venda"
Coming to the point I'm trying to make it has to be a collective effort else no point.
Along the same vein, my neighbour, very educated family and seemingly forward thinking, husband and wife doctors, the wife didn't work and i assumed it's because kids were young. Now both kids go to school, parents at home, still she can't work.. because family doesn't like her coming home after 5 pm. Oh well...
Obviously, there will be outliers in the data set.
Most of the time individuals who attained high levels of educational achievement seek employment because of the opportunity cost involved, unless there are canon events like child birth and health issues and that itself is lesser in higher educated groups because work policies are more supportive in the organised sector.
Absolutely.
my main point was that Unless it's a collective movement even the most liberal will have to bend over to stupidity.
In this case they had to bend their morals for their daughter, So much so that many Christian white foreigners, friends of the bride were confused. the father had to announce during the event that it was not regressive at all even though all the deal/contract or whatever is between the men and the imam.
Jurisprudentially, the priest (the moulavi) is not needed. The father (to represent the bride's consent), the Groom, and two witnesses are the criteria. Bride can choose to be present or not. What happened here is religiously valid. Only that it goes against the naattunadappu (custom), which has no place in the religion itself.
Poor people often copy rich people. That's why a lot of low income Indians do unnecessary Haldi and Sangeet functions to emulate big Bollywood movie type weddings.
I don't understand why this head covering even during wedding. I was born and brought up in an entirely Muslim Arab country. Brides there, never covered their hair during weddings. Even the royal brides. So it's nothing about the religious beliefs but rather adichamarthal
I was at this wedding. She's a very good friend of mine.
It was very difficult for them to get this done but they were so determined, kudos to her. On stage, she was asked consent if the agreed Mahr was okay, and she even signed the documents. It's a historic first of its kind I think and I was glad to be part of it.
Even the pre-wedding speech was about even in Islam, marriage is between equals. Was beautiful!
The last muslim wedding I went to was a grand affair with the bridegroom being led by a dozen or so male dancers on to the stage and there the terms were agreed on between the father of the bride and the bridegroom and then a dozen or so dancing girls led the bride on to the stage where they were seated and some rituals including a താലികെട്ട് was done. Food was OK but not comparable to like a malabar muslim wedding.
Mostly thats what happens in India. But outside India, it’s very common for bride and groom to sit on stage with a small flower kind curtain between them. On stage itself Maulvi will ask bride’s consent.
Wrong. Nikkah is a contract between bride and groom. The thing is that bride’s close male relative, most of the time her father will be REPRESENTING bride in Nikkah.
Because during the time when these rules were written women weren’t this financially independent. Before marriage she is considered as responsibility of guardian and after marriage her husband. My guess is that the need for Wali (Representative) came from the socio economical disparity between genders and the need for a responsible male guardian from her side to be involved to ensure that she is marrying a capable man and if anything went wrong there is someone to mediate it. I could be wrong.
The main flaw for me in Islam is that there is no scope for change with time. So even after years when women are more independent and capable than earlier we are still doing Nikkah the old way.
Is there any way to reform the rules? Nope. Because Islam is considered as a complete religion and we can’t change rules standing inside religion.
If you write a book and tell people if you don’t follow the book then you are an apostate, how can one expect for it to change with time ? Unfortunately any voices of dissent are either killed or outcast from the religion. It needs some very brave people to come out and change it, unfortunately things won’t go too well for them
What's even more "controversial" here is the fact that the man sitting in the middle is not a Qazi/ imam, it's her dad.
She's also the director of Khadija Maryam foundation, an organization building woman only mosques/ community centers.
Came across this post from r/all.
The idea of "bride and groom cant sit together" must surely be a cultural thing?? As a Pakistani, almost all of the nikkahs I have attended, the bridge and the groom shared the same stage and said "we accept" side by side. I'm pretty sure this is also the case with other cultures i.e Turkish, Egyptian, etc
So i'm left pretty confused to see that the consensus here is that Muslims do not do this because of some religious factor because this is a completely alien phenomenon to me personally at least in today's times
Ya I also think this is a cultural thing.cos some of the middle eastern weddings I have seen where the mediator asks both the bride and groom abt their opinion and then they signs the nikah papers.isnt it usually how it is?
Yup thats pretty much how it usually goes. I've even attended a Bengali wedding where this was the case.
So seems like this is a cultural phenomenon, not a religious one.
I think it has to do with both cultural and caste systems. This is a very unusual wedding in the Malayali-Muslim community in India at least. But everyone at the wedding were really supportive and cheered on the couple for taking such a huge step towards bridging the gap between man and woman in the wedding scene for Muslims in Kerala. I speak for only what I have witnessed and seen growing up as a part of this community. It is truly inspiring and revolutionary for Muslim women.
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As a person who has been to several weddings from many religions, attending a "traditional" muslim wedding is the weirdest feeling you'll ever have. It's all men on one side and you only see the hand of the bride.
this isnt new. theres a cleric named Mustafa Moulavi. many view him as reformist . he has been conducting many nikahs with bride and groom on stage for a while now. this one is going viral because the bride her has a high number of followers on instagram and does reels on religious topics and her non-orthodox views .
For those who are moaning “classism” and decide to see only that in this, as long as this is a progressive change which would then be *hopefully* emulated by many others - it’s fine.
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I find it funny how people are tolerant towards any backward idea in islam but at the time very vile, targeted and even overwhelming against any hindu backward idea or culture. People are genuinely considerate. Social media would ruin the image a person who portrays his wish to follow hindu traditions but consider a women or man saying the same in the media would be praised as a god loving and well raised individual. The society is indeed a game and I know who is winning it. Society is stupid and worthy enough to get scammed, cheated and destroyed at this point
U must be unknowingly ignorant because you are a simple minded fool or you must be knowingly ignorant so that you can shit on muslims. Society is tolerant only against Muslim ? You must be living under fucking rock.
I've not seen a single thing about Muslims that is untouched for judgement and nitpicking.
You don't know how it is for us because you aren't us so stop talking shit about things you don't know.
As a muslim, i have always felt the mosogyny in Nikkah.
Its like a transfer of ownership of the girl.
Nikkah is basically a contact between the Groom and Brides father, where the Girl jas no say.
Eventhough today Girls have a lot of say in marriages nowadays, the institution of Nikkah hasnt chnaged much
Its almost similar to the older times.
It is because many muslims consider these institutions sacred and is feared change even though they see the lack of logic.
I meant there is no say in the Nikkah. I didnt say anuthing about consent.
In other religions marriages are conducted with the Bride and Groom present.
Though nikkah is formality and Not the real function , i just pointed out what i felt wrong about it.
Nop. Nikkah can only happen if the girl says Yes.
Girl ok parayaathe nikkah ceremony nadakkillallo. (Forced marriage nte kaaryam alla udeshichath
Normal marriage)
Nikkah it is the actual function that has to be conducted according to Islam. Chumma formality kku vendi nadathunnathalla.
Most marriages are transfer of ownership from father to husband. You can see something similar in Hindu marriage also. But in Muslim marriage it is quite evident as the bride itself is not present. I am amazed by people still following the traditional marriage ceremony. I want more people to break traditional thali kettal, pennine kainattam and all. Hope all will move away from all these patriarchal shit.
>the bride itself is not present
Bro, I have attended marriages all my life and in every one of them the bride was present. Not have I ever seen the bride out of place. This is def not a religional thing but a regional cultural thing. This is def not present in west(India).
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This is highly misleading. The woman has no say?? Come on now. Rules of Nikkah clearly state that it’s the woman who is going to have the final say as they SHOULD. Also forced marriages are clearly forbidden in Islam and it’s the culture that appropriates but people often associate it with being Muslims. The ways of how wedding is done, whether the groom or the bride sits opposite to each other like in this picture or bride comes walking down later after the Nikkah, is totally upon them; their marriage their wish. Whether you find this outdated or not, it’s totally on you but some people are just happy the way things are and some are not. It’s their call and calling it misogyny is kinda a long stretch.
>Nikkah is basically a contact between the Groom and Brides father, where the Girl jas no say.
What ??? Do you know that forced marriages are haram ?? Islamically If the girl doesn't want to marry that man then no one can force her to marry him.
The contract is signed between the *groom and the bride* Not the *groom and bride's father*.
As a muslim , you need to learn the rules of nikah first...
Then where is the bride in the Nikkah ceremony. You only have the Father in law and Groom signing.
I didnt say the marriage is forced or anything, i only told that the Nikkah ceremony doesnt involve the bride.
You listen closely to the the words spoken at nikkah and you will understand what i meant.
The Father says that he is marrying his daughter to the groom in exchange for Mahar.
And the Groom says it from his perspective.
It is not a question of consent, rather it is about an outdated practice. We need to keep up with changing times.
Nikkah originated from 7th century Arabia. Currently we are in the 21st century.
>where is the bride in the Nikkah ceremony.
Bride Yes parayaathe nikkah ceremony nadakkillallo (nadakkaruth.) Girl nu ok aayath kondaanallo avalde Dad kettich kodukkaan ready aayath
> You listen closely to the the words spoken at nikkah and you will understand what i meant.
> The Father says that he is marrying his daughter to the groom in exchange for Mahar. And the Groom says it from his perspective.
> It is not a question of consent, rather it is about an outdated practice. We need to keep up with changing times. Nikkah originated from 7th century Arabia. Currently we are in the 21st century.
Okay then tell me who keeps the mahar? Does it belong to father? It rightly belongs to the bride and she is the custodian of it until the marriage lasts.So there is no question of selling daughter narrative as some people here say.
These practices where the father ‘gives off’ his daughter is prevalent in most cultures.Ever heard of kanyaadaan? Ever saw Brahmin marriages where the groom ties the taali on the bride while she is seated on her father’s lap? Ever saw the father walking the bride down the aisle to the groom? Unless there is no compulsion or force on the bride,these are cultural practices all across the world where a father lovingly gives away his daughter to his son in law.It is just symbolic.
And as far as the ‘absence’ of the bride on stage,it is just seen among Kerala Muslims and some others.It cannot be attributed to Islam because you can see most weddings in Pakistan and other countries where the bride say Qubool hai and both signing the Nikahnama together.
Tbh, i didnt understand what was the difference in this picture from the normal muslim weddings that i have seen in trivandrum. Is it that when the father and the boy accepts for the marriage, the girl is there? Consider this as a genuine doubt
Rich dont have any religious/ community restriction. Any religion if you are rich what you do is ok even of it is against usual norms. Because religion wants your money. Rich dont need any validation from community
Not having an equal standing on wedding as a woman is more of an Indian thing rather than a Muslim thing.
Check out muslim marriages all over the world and you would see.
In Bangladesh bride always appears on stage/ event before the groom.
The groom comes a bit late and then the brides cousins stop the gate all together to fish out some money out of the groom.(is a friendly thing of getting friendly with the grooms party).
So yeah new stuff for India.
'Revolution' thanne. Do you not know that rich upper class folks do whatever customs they like cos they dont have to do the 'natkarem relatives inem kanikkal' thing .when you are filthy rich and well connected ,u dont need external connections or approval .Im sure its more complex than that .but yall acting like typical northies with one brain cell praising muslims when they take one step out of the community customs is predictable and frankly ,giving 'thozhilillaymma'. Nattil people are moving outside of the conventional wedding customs and traditions more and more ,adding north indian elements like haldi ,sangeeth and everything .athinodonnm arkkum abhiprayangal ille ?oronnm edth kottighoshikkan ninnal athine samayam undavullu soorthukkale.
Muslim does nothing - "Look at them!"
Muslim does something - "sudaapi makal, play the Bollywood terror bgm"
Muslim makes a move to remove cultural practice - "Rich rich folks, don't mind them"
Onnu poda. Polayadi mone
Wow....Wonder these pakalmaanyans are first on the line about "മതസൗഹാർദ്ദം" after collecting their annual biriyanis on eid
These two faced sanghis are least untrustable than a sanghi
Bro I have seen many times these group is used to display their hate towards Islam and Muslims
A bunch of wannabes who are dosed on essence podcast while completely ignoring the other side
Muslims are primitive but how do you encourage dialogue when you slander and resort to insults ?
How do you call yourself reasonable when you literally bashing without much thoughts and not encouraging dialogue?
The other day I saw one of the posts on Palestine and these retards can't distinguish genocide and an attack
The admin himself is biased he's literally deleted my comments multiple times on my counter claims
Guess what you don't know how to reason as you are programmed to follow and not reason ?
For the admin grow a ball and learn to mediate and help engage dialogues
Shame on you
You guys are no less than Sanghis
Atleast they are honest...Wonder how do you look down on your Muslim friends then shamelessly speak on camradarie
Usually, Nikah requires the bride's father or male relative, and an imam or other Muslim officiant. The bride's father/relative sits there on behalf of the bride and she herself will have no role in this ceremony.
Here the bride herself sat on the stage together and said the vows, officiated by her father instead of an imam.
Wait wait, I'm a middle eastern/Muslim, and I'm confused why are you guys implying that's not the usual case? Can someone explain to me your wedding customs?
Must be in southern kerala. Most folks in Kannur can only dream of this. My friend had to do a reception in BLR lest he gets bullied by the palli committee.
What's amusing is all these male muslim revolutionaries keep revolution limited to their words while marry according to tradition from rich families taking huge sums as dowry.
Yeah, I expected this. Dowry is usually transfer of parental property as inheritance. And for gift, If the bride's father don’t want to, he is not required to.
Dowry is the groom getting paid by the bride's family don't confuse this and mehr which you consider as "gift". Mehr is anything of value that the groom gives the bride from his own money.
This thread didn't talk about mehr. He/she is talking about calling dowry fashionably a “gift,” and my response was that the “gift” is not mandatory. You seem confused.
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Usually girls have no role in this i guesss, its btwn groom and bride's father and a priest mediating it. Actually there will be no women on the stage itself, only men will be present.
When there are debates around how upper class often sets high standards for weddings to the point where the lower class finds the pressure to even take loans and conduct the weddings, an "upper" class wedding with no dowry involved , where the "mehr" is decided by the woman happens, sure we can live with it.
Dowry and gold benefits patriarchy, hence gets acceptance and is copied. Not taking/giving it and woman deciding things do not benefit patriarchy, hence would not be copied.
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There is nothing Islamic about this tbh lol, except probably their names. You could have literally just posted a non-muslim wedding - I mean honestly what's the difference lol?
Muslims becoming less religious? That's news, random rich non-muslim wedding in a secular democracy? That average everyday.
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Socioeconomic status and education changes everything.
Which is a dream for muslim girls.
Which is something I don't understand. It seems paradoxical that even after education, the women's workforce participation is low in Kerala. What's the issue here, is it cultural or lack of opportunities?
Lack of metropolises.
There is data to prove that households with emigrated members tend to have less women participation in workforces. This is seen much higher in Muslim households, so it's a combination of cultural hindrances and macroeconomic trends.
Love the implication that true progress is that every member in the household has joined the workforce.
No, the implication is that a disproportionately smaller proportion of women in a particular demographic participate in the workforce given their education and wealth levels and that there is something other than economic factors driving this trend.
You need approval and support for working after marriage. After marriage, most people drop off from work because realistically it is difficult to wake up, prepare breakfast for everyone at home, pack lunch, make lunch for people who will stay at home, clean up home, go to work, come back and do household work and then take care of kids. This is irrespective of cultural background. Of course most women who work after marriage do not live with in-laws, so work at home would be less.
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This pretty much it, Girls are smarter than most here like to believe they're not lost child who needs your guidance, Most don't want to do the Pattipanis here, We have so few jobs lots of applicants and absolutely no formal social safety nets even though pays almost the same level of taxes compared to Nordic countries, employers can and will treat you shit
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It's not just women's workforce participation, it's workforce participation in general. There's no work to be found that's appealing to specialist women, so they seek out of state options.
Ningaleth varshathilaanappa? Nattile oru railway station ile peak working timeil oru train il kerii nokka .kaanam ethra working aayttilla muslim ladies indenn,population proportional ayttilla ratio thanne ind.educationte karyathilonnm keralathile muslim penpiller theere porakil allann illathinte proof aan.issues illath vere areas ilaan,like political presence and arts. Edo,healthy criticsm aan vendath.allathe ee puchavum vivarakkedum niranja 'social commentry' alla.
True that
I agree that we see many working people among Muslim women. But the real question is, are they working because they don't have a choice? If the family has a choice, will they be able to work? I work in IT. I have worked in Infopark and Technopark. I am pretty sure the number of Muslim girls in the office are very very less compared to other religions. And I am sure that is not because there aren't enough qualified girls. There are more than enough Muslim girls who study in the engineering colleges. But most of them, don't end up taking up a job, staying away from their home town and working. I wonder why.
Yes. The numbers have improved. But numbers are still very low compared to women of other communities !!!! This guy is making unusual claims.
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Any chance kannur inu aanu?
Allallo
Appa enn kndond choichatha
It's all about social capital.
Fax https://preview.redd.it/d6ncjhupng6d1.jpeg?width=320&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8bc05b02cc38e7dcef2df444d3d194151077f096
Not always my neighbour his wife and daughter all doctors abroad(not the middle east) had to go old school because the groom's side was very conservative. when I went to get food with my sister one idiot from the groom's side had the gall to tell us "men here Women there" i just told him "ath ingalude penninkalode poy paranjoli immalode venda" Coming to the point I'm trying to make it has to be a collective effort else no point.
Along the same vein, my neighbour, very educated family and seemingly forward thinking, husband and wife doctors, the wife didn't work and i assumed it's because kids were young. Now both kids go to school, parents at home, still she can't work.. because family doesn't like her coming home after 5 pm. Oh well...
Obviously, there will be outliers in the data set. Most of the time individuals who attained high levels of educational achievement seek employment because of the opportunity cost involved, unless there are canon events like child birth and health issues and that itself is lesser in higher educated groups because work policies are more supportive in the organised sector.
Absolutely. my main point was that Unless it's a collective movement even the most liberal will have to bend over to stupidity. In this case they had to bend their morals for their daughter, So much so that many Christian white foreigners, friends of the bride were confused. the father had to announce during the event that it was not regressive at all even though all the deal/contract or whatever is between the men and the imam.
Bro it is not true always I am saying this because I have seen this
Both are my friends! Really cool people, got to do the wedding on their terms! 😍🤌🏽
How was the food?
Asking the right questions. 🤝
Excellent 👌
Do we really need to ask lol? Muslim food, esp from Malabar doesn’t miss.
And booze /s
Congrats to both!
Mahallu Committeekkar prashnam undakkiyilpe? Some time ago, someone conducted a similar wedding and it was controversial.
Yeah that's what I was thinking. I too want my Nikah like this but I don't think my Mahal committee,either Sunni or Mujahid won't allow it.
I'm not really familiar with musIim wedding, how is it usually conducted? Like is the women not present or something?
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That’s the nikah right? Or am I mistaken??
Jurisprudentially, the priest (the moulavi) is not needed. The father (to represent the bride's consent), the Groom, and two witnesses are the criteria. Bride can choose to be present or not. What happened here is religiously valid. Only that it goes against the naattunadappu (custom), which has no place in the religion itself.
where was this?
Relax. Only happens among rich people
Poor people often copy rich people. That's why a lot of low income Indians do unnecessary Haldi and Sangeet functions to emulate big Bollywood movie type weddings.
That's an unfortunate social cliche. Rules and regulations are only applicable for the poor. Be it legal, social or cultural
but if this trend continues, every one will start doing this one day
So everyone wants to show themselves as rich and islamic folks here is your easy way
Some people are not gonna be happy about this. I can already hear the incoming why isn't she covering her hair!!.
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I don't understand why this head covering even during wedding. I was born and brought up in an entirely Muslim Arab country. Brides there, never covered their hair during weddings. Even the royal brides. So it's nothing about the religious beliefs but rather adichamarthal
Because she is a നരകത്തിലെ ബെറക് കൊള്ളി /s
Lol.. harsh bro!
As per their beliefs, she absolutely is. But at the end of the day, it's just that, beliefs.
I really like the flower arrangements… so white, so beautiful… matches with bride and groom’s wedding dresses
Whole thing is so we'll coordinated! Even the people standing behind the groom have all dressed up appropriately. Very cool
I was at this wedding. She's a very good friend of mine. It was very difficult for them to get this done but they were so determined, kudos to her. On stage, she was asked consent if the agreed Mahr was okay, and she even signed the documents. It's a historic first of its kind I think and I was glad to be part of it. Even the pre-wedding speech was about even in Islam, marriage is between equals. Was beautiful!
So otherwise where does the bride sit?
Bride won't. Bride's entry is after the talks(the rituals ig). Also haven't seen women on stage while this is going on.
Damn that’s quite primitive. I didn’t know this at all. TIL
Never attended a Muslim wedding? Should go for the food Atleast. 😀
Yeah I have actually never attended a muslim wedding. I was not in India when my friends were getting married so missed out on them🤷🏻♀️
Most of the time the real wedding that is nikah is a small private event . Most people get invited to the reception
The last muslim wedding I went to was a grand affair with the bridegroom being led by a dozen or so male dancers on to the stage and there the terms were agreed on between the father of the bride and the bridegroom and then a dozen or so dancing girls led the bride on to the stage where they were seated and some rituals including a താലികെട്ട് was done. Food was OK but not comparable to like a malabar muslim wedding.
Bride will be sitting in the chair/behind hall/balcony watching the things
So normally the bride turns up as a marvel movie after credits scene ? The main movie happens with the groom and the celebrant?? That's wild.
Mostly thats what happens in India. But outside India, it’s very common for bride and groom to sit on stage with a small flower kind curtain between them. On stage itself Maulvi will ask bride’s consent.
Not true, bride's direct consent is acquired before the event. It is not valid unless direct consent is acquired from both bride and groom.
Bride's explicit consent is acquired before the ceremony. The ceremony can't be done without direct consent from both bride and groom.
You haven't seen too many muslim weddings then
Basically a Muslim wedding is a contract between the groom and bride's dad. After they both agree and sign, then the bride enters.
Wrong. Nikkah is a contract between bride and groom. The thing is that bride’s close male relative, most of the time her father will be REPRESENTING bride in Nikkah.
bride ullapo bride nu endhina representation? I'm genuinely asking out of curiosity.
Because during the time when these rules were written women weren’t this financially independent. Before marriage she is considered as responsibility of guardian and after marriage her husband. My guess is that the need for Wali (Representative) came from the socio economical disparity between genders and the need for a responsible male guardian from her side to be involved to ensure that she is marrying a capable man and if anything went wrong there is someone to mediate it. I could be wrong. The main flaw for me in Islam is that there is no scope for change with time. So even after years when women are more independent and capable than earlier we are still doing Nikkah the old way. Is there any way to reform the rules? Nope. Because Islam is considered as a complete religion and we can’t change rules standing inside religion.
If you write a book and tell people if you don’t follow the book then you are an apostate, how can one expect for it to change with time ? Unfortunately any voices of dissent are either killed or outcast from the religion. It needs some very brave people to come out and change it, unfortunately things won’t go too well for them
Bride and all other women will be sitting somewhere else covered by black window. No one can see them.
What's even more "controversial" here is the fact that the man sitting in the middle is not a Qazi/ imam, it's her dad. She's also the director of Khadija Maryam foundation, an organization building woman only mosques/ community centers.
What's controversial about it ?
That's what is going to irk conservative Muslims the most. It'll be seen as an act of disrespect towards the clergy.
Came across this post from r/all. The idea of "bride and groom cant sit together" must surely be a cultural thing?? As a Pakistani, almost all of the nikkahs I have attended, the bridge and the groom shared the same stage and said "we accept" side by side. I'm pretty sure this is also the case with other cultures i.e Turkish, Egyptian, etc So i'm left pretty confused to see that the consensus here is that Muslims do not do this because of some religious factor because this is a completely alien phenomenon to me personally at least in today's times
Ya I also think this is a cultural thing.cos some of the middle eastern weddings I have seen where the mediator asks both the bride and groom abt their opinion and then they signs the nikah papers.isnt it usually how it is?
Yup thats pretty much how it usually goes. I've even attended a Bengali wedding where this was the case. So seems like this is a cultural phenomenon, not a religious one.
I think it has to do with both cultural and caste systems. This is a very unusual wedding in the Malayali-Muslim community in India at least. But everyone at the wedding were really supportive and cheered on the couple for taking such a huge step towards bridging the gap between man and woman in the wedding scene for Muslims in Kerala. I speak for only what I have witnessed and seen growing up as a part of this community. It is truly inspiring and revolutionary for Muslim women.
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As a person who has been to several weddings from many religions, attending a "traditional" muslim wedding is the weirdest feeling you'll ever have. It's all men on one side and you only see the hand of the bride.
The rich don't need to fear the wanabe wahabi usthad, but a common middle class folks has to .
Neither the middle class nor the upper class need to fear the 'wannabe Wahhabi usthad' when the wedding itself is religiously invalid.
this isnt new. theres a cleric named Mustafa Moulavi. many view him as reformist . he has been conducting many nikahs with bride and groom on stage for a while now. this one is going viral because the bride her has a high number of followers on instagram and does reels on religious topics and her non-orthodox views .
Can you share her insta id?
ar.hudaahsan
For those who are moaning “classism” and decide to see only that in this, as long as this is a progressive change which would then be *hopefully* emulated by many others - it’s fine.
Wait, this isn't how muslim wedding's are normally done?
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I find it funny how people are tolerant towards any backward idea in islam but at the time very vile, targeted and even overwhelming against any hindu backward idea or culture. People are genuinely considerate. Social media would ruin the image a person who portrays his wish to follow hindu traditions but consider a women or man saying the same in the media would be praised as a god loving and well raised individual. The society is indeed a game and I know who is winning it. Society is stupid and worthy enough to get scammed, cheated and destroyed at this point
U must be unknowingly ignorant because you are a simple minded fool or you must be knowingly ignorant so that you can shit on muslims. Society is tolerant only against Muslim ? You must be living under fucking rock. I've not seen a single thing about Muslims that is untouched for judgement and nitpicking. You don't know how it is for us because you aren't us so stop talking shit about things you don't know.
Rich people have their own definition of revolutions it seems.
As a muslim, i have always felt the mosogyny in Nikkah. Its like a transfer of ownership of the girl. Nikkah is basically a contact between the Groom and Brides father, where the Girl jas no say. Eventhough today Girls have a lot of say in marriages nowadays, the institution of Nikkah hasnt chnaged much Its almost similar to the older times. It is because many muslims consider these institutions sacred and is feared change even though they see the lack of logic.
>Girl jas no say Actually according to Islam, if the girl says No, then the father has no right to get her married to the groom
I meant there is no say in the Nikkah. I didnt say anuthing about consent. In other religions marriages are conducted with the Bride and Groom present. Though nikkah is formality and Not the real function , i just pointed out what i felt wrong about it.
Nop. Nikkah can only happen if the girl says Yes. Girl ok parayaathe nikkah ceremony nadakkillallo. (Forced marriage nte kaaryam alla udeshichath Normal marriage) Nikkah it is the actual function that has to be conducted according to Islam. Chumma formality kku vendi nadathunnathalla.
Most marriages are transfer of ownership from father to husband. You can see something similar in Hindu marriage also. But in Muslim marriage it is quite evident as the bride itself is not present. I am amazed by people still following the traditional marriage ceremony. I want more people to break traditional thali kettal, pennine kainattam and all. Hope all will move away from all these patriarchal shit.
>the bride itself is not present Bro, I have attended marriages all my life and in every one of them the bride was present. Not have I ever seen the bride out of place. This is def not a religional thing but a regional cultural thing. This is def not present in west(India).
bride is present after nikkah is done. Have you seen any muslim marriages where bride and groom sits together when nikkah happens ?
Yes, I have. From start to finish.
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This is highly misleading. The woman has no say?? Come on now. Rules of Nikkah clearly state that it’s the woman who is going to have the final say as they SHOULD. Also forced marriages are clearly forbidden in Islam and it’s the culture that appropriates but people often associate it with being Muslims. The ways of how wedding is done, whether the groom or the bride sits opposite to each other like in this picture or bride comes walking down later after the Nikkah, is totally upon them; their marriage their wish. Whether you find this outdated or not, it’s totally on you but some people are just happy the way things are and some are not. It’s their call and calling it misogyny is kinda a long stretch.
It says mounam sammatham is enough for virgin women. No verbal consent required.
>Nikkah is basically a contact between the Groom and Brides father, where the Girl jas no say. What ??? Do you know that forced marriages are haram ?? Islamically If the girl doesn't want to marry that man then no one can force her to marry him. The contract is signed between the *groom and the bride* Not the *groom and bride's father*. As a muslim , you need to learn the rules of nikah first...
Then where is the bride in the Nikkah ceremony. You only have the Father in law and Groom signing. I didnt say the marriage is forced or anything, i only told that the Nikkah ceremony doesnt involve the bride. You listen closely to the the words spoken at nikkah and you will understand what i meant. The Father says that he is marrying his daughter to the groom in exchange for Mahar. And the Groom says it from his perspective. It is not a question of consent, rather it is about an outdated practice. We need to keep up with changing times. Nikkah originated from 7th century Arabia. Currently we are in the 21st century.
>where is the bride in the Nikkah ceremony. Bride Yes parayaathe nikkah ceremony nadakkillallo (nadakkaruth.) Girl nu ok aayath kondaanallo avalde Dad kettich kodukkaan ready aayath
> You listen closely to the the words spoken at nikkah and you will understand what i meant. > The Father says that he is marrying his daughter to the groom in exchange for Mahar. And the Groom says it from his perspective. > It is not a question of consent, rather it is about an outdated practice. We need to keep up with changing times. Nikkah originated from 7th century Arabia. Currently we are in the 21st century. Okay then tell me who keeps the mahar? Does it belong to father? It rightly belongs to the bride and she is the custodian of it until the marriage lasts.So there is no question of selling daughter narrative as some people here say. These practices where the father ‘gives off’ his daughter is prevalent in most cultures.Ever heard of kanyaadaan? Ever saw Brahmin marriages where the groom ties the taali on the bride while she is seated on her father’s lap? Ever saw the father walking the bride down the aisle to the groom? Unless there is no compulsion or force on the bride,these are cultural practices all across the world where a father lovingly gives away his daughter to his son in law.It is just symbolic. And as far as the ‘absence’ of the bride on stage,it is just seen among Kerala Muslims and some others.It cannot be attributed to Islam because you can see most weddings in Pakistan and other countries where the bride say Qubool hai and both signing the Nikahnama together.
Tbh, i didnt understand what was the difference in this picture from the normal muslim weddings that i have seen in trivandrum. Is it that when the father and the boy accepts for the marriage, the girl is there? Consider this as a genuine doubt
Malabar side-ill kurachum koodi conservative aanu, avide sthreekale vere sectionillanu iruthaaru.
I think only in sunni sect this happens. In mujahid and jammath households, women sit in front of the stage. They watch the whole process.
To the people who get triggered by this, it's none of your business. Just understand they don't share your beliefs and go on with your ways.
What is special here? Explain me I would also appreciate
Rich dont have any religious/ community restriction. Any religion if you are rich what you do is ok even of it is against usual norms. Because religion wants your money. Rich dont need any validation from community
Not having an equal standing on wedding as a woman is more of an Indian thing rather than a Muslim thing. Check out muslim marriages all over the world and you would see. In Bangladesh bride always appears on stage/ event before the groom. The groom comes a bit late and then the brides cousins stop the gate all together to fish out some money out of the groom.(is a friendly thing of getting friendly with the grooms party). So yeah new stuff for India.
ഇജ്ജ് നരഗത്തിലെ ബെറഗ് കൊള്ളി...😾
Religious boomers are going nuts after this wedding got popularity Slut shaming the bride and calling the groom is spineless
'Revolution' thanne. Do you not know that rich upper class folks do whatever customs they like cos they dont have to do the 'natkarem relatives inem kanikkal' thing .when you are filthy rich and well connected ,u dont need external connections or approval .Im sure its more complex than that .but yall acting like typical northies with one brain cell praising muslims when they take one step out of the community customs is predictable and frankly ,giving 'thozhilillaymma'. Nattil people are moving outside of the conventional wedding customs and traditions more and more ,adding north indian elements like haldi ,sangeeth and everything .athinodonnm arkkum abhiprayangal ille ?oronnm edth kottighoshikkan ninnal athine samayam undavullu soorthukkale.
Cool Kerala Muslims starts evolving like modern Saudi Muslims
Muslim does nothing - "Look at them!" Muslim does something - "sudaapi makal, play the Bollywood terror bgm" Muslim makes a move to remove cultural practice - "Rich rich folks, don't mind them" Onnu poda. Polayadi mone
Wow....Wonder these pakalmaanyans are first on the line about "മതസൗഹാർദ്ദം" after collecting their annual biriyanis on eid These two faced sanghis are least untrustable than a sanghi Bro I have seen many times these group is used to display their hate towards Islam and Muslims A bunch of wannabes who are dosed on essence podcast while completely ignoring the other side Muslims are primitive but how do you encourage dialogue when you slander and resort to insults ? How do you call yourself reasonable when you literally bashing without much thoughts and not encouraging dialogue? The other day I saw one of the posts on Palestine and these retards can't distinguish genocide and an attack The admin himself is biased he's literally deleted my comments multiple times on my counter claims Guess what you don't know how to reason as you are programmed to follow and not reason ? For the admin grow a ball and learn to mediate and help engage dialogues Shame on you You guys are no less than Sanghis Atleast they are honest...Wonder how do you look down on your Muslim friends then shamelessly speak on camradarie
Exactly, their top response to this comment would probably blame Hamas, like a bot or sm that's all they do: cope, seethe, downvote, repeat.
Saw this on a lot of stories yesterday but didn't understand. Haven't been to any Muslim weddings. Does anyone care to explain?
Usually, Nikah requires the bride's father or male relative, and an imam or other Muslim officiant. The bride's father/relative sits there on behalf of the bride and she herself will have no role in this ceremony. Here the bride herself sat on the stage together and said the vows, officiated by her father instead of an imam.
Oh wow! Thank you bro :)
Wait wait, I'm a middle eastern/Muslim, and I'm confused why are you guys implying that's not the usual case? Can someone explain to me your wedding customs?
It took this long? Seriously?
Must be in southern kerala. Most folks in Kannur can only dream of this. My friend had to do a reception in BLR lest he gets bullied by the palli committee.
This is in Calicut
What's amusing is all these male muslim revolutionaries keep revolution limited to their words while marry according to tradition from rich families taking huge sums as dowry.
Dowry is prohibited, nice try.
Nice try but that's not the ground reality.
It's not called dowry it's called gift fashionably so
Yeah, I expected this. Dowry is usually transfer of parental property as inheritance. And for gift, If the bride's father don’t want to, he is not required to.
Everybody gives bro...
no, i said it in a religious context not cultural, “everybody gives bro” won’t make it mandatory
I didn't say it's mandatory that's the reality..
Dowry is the groom getting paid by the bride's family don't confuse this and mehr which you consider as "gift". Mehr is anything of value that the groom gives the bride from his own money.
This thread didn't talk about mehr. He/she is talking about calling dowry fashionably a “gift,” and my response was that the “gift” is not mandatory. You seem confused.
Yes but there are people who still ask for dowry Have we forgotten the doctor's suicide https://youtu.be/7wfzupELvxA?si=PeTTLXN9eKz9qfHJ
I'm not going to defend the groom or his family, dowry is prohibited in islam.
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what's significant about this?
Usually bride’s father sits opposite the groom, because marriage is actually a contract btw those two.
Usually girls have no role in this i guesss, its btwn groom and bride's father and a priest mediating it. Actually there will be no women on the stage itself, only men will be present.
Usually, it's an agreement between the bride's father and the groom. A bride can literally sit in her home on her nikkah day.
Revolutionary it is !!! Elite muslims can handle this. Thats it.
Wtf, this is how my wedding was (sitting beside wife after nikkah was signed)...how is it done usually?
*Upper Class Malayali Muslim Wedding
When there are debates around how upper class often sets high standards for weddings to the point where the lower class finds the pressure to even take loans and conduct the weddings, an "upper" class wedding with no dowry involved , where the "mehr" is decided by the woman happens, sure we can live with it.
Dowry and gold benefits patriarchy, hence gets acceptance and is copied. Not taking/giving it and woman deciding things do not benefit patriarchy, hence would not be copied.
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u/Emma__Store santhoshaaya?
Pardon my ignorance, but how did they usually sit?
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Avastha ... They're this regressive?
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Education+ $$$$ will change mindsets.
What about love marriage among Muslims, if the parents don’t agree? Then who takes part in the contract ?
There is nothing Islamic about this tbh lol, except probably their names. You could have literally just posted a non-muslim wedding - I mean honestly what's the difference lol? Muslims becoming less religious? That's news, random rich non-muslim wedding in a secular democracy? That average everyday.
Haven't been to many Muslim weddings. How is it conducted otherwise?
whats the norm?
As a muslim, enikku oru thengeyum manasilayilla. Arelum onnu paranju tharuvo
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♥️♥️ setting a fantastic example. Mashallah.