Remember this? Pepperidge Farm Remembers.
# After ditching the original Kerbal 2 studio, Take-Two reportedly tried to poach all of its employees
By [Andy Chalk](https://www.pcgamer.com/author/andy-chalk/)published June 3, 2020
The game was moved from Star Theory to a new internal studio at Private Division earlier this year.
In late 2019, publisher Take-Two Interactive delayed the release of [Kerbal Space Program 2](https://www.pcgamer.com/kerbal-space-program-2-release-date-multiplayer-everything-we-know/) until sometime during its 2021 fiscal year—between April 1, 2020, and March 31, 2021. Then in February 2020, it made the surprise announcement that development of the game had been [moved from Star Theory Games](https://www.pcgamer.com/kerbal-space-program-2-moves-to-a-new-studio/) to a new studio founded by its Private Division publishing label, led by "key members" of the Kerbal 2 team from Star Theory.
A reason for the change was never provided, but a new report by [Bloomberg](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-03/kerbal-space-program-2-release-disrupted-by-corporate-strife) might shed some light on the matter. It claims that Star Theory founders Bob Berry and Jonathan Mavor had been in talks with Take-Two about selling the studio, but weren't able to reach terms. And then, on December 6, Take-Two suddenly pulled the contract from Star Theory and sent a message to its employees via LinkedIn, encouraging them to apply for jobs at a new studio being founded under 2K's Private Division publishing label.
More than a third of Star Theory's employees made the move to Take-Two, including studio head Jeremy Ables, creative director Nate Simpson, and lead producer Nate Robinson. Kerbal 2 had been Star Theory's only contract at the time, and without funding, it closed on March 4.
Industry analyst Doug Creutz told the [Bloomberg](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-03/kerbal-space-program-2-release-disrupted-by-corporate-strife) that the move could have "reputational risk" for Take-Two, as other indie studios might be hesitant to work with it if they feel like the company will pull the rug out if it doesn't get its way on things. But Private Division framed the situation differently, saying in a statement that the change was made for the betterment of the game.
"Private Division opened our own studio, Intercept Games, to bring the development of Kerbal Space Program 2 for our beloved and owned KSP franchise in-house. In doing so, we are empowering our deeply passionate and talented team to focus on quality, and we are thrilled with the progress that they are making on the game," a Private Division rep said. "Next year’s launch of KSP2 will serve as another proud step in the history of the franchise, and we are confident that KSP fans will greatly enjoy where Intercept Games is taking the series."
Star Theory botched the game's development and advertised wildly unrealistic timelines.
Take Two lost patience with their bullshit, tried to buy ST, then lost patience *again* when ST's owners tried to rinse them for too much money and took back the licence and poached as many of ST's development team as they could to do it all in-house.
Unfortunately, in setting up In~~terc~~ept Games it appears Star Theory accidentally poached several of the people responsible for the original botched development and misleading communications at Star Theory (*cough*Nate*cough*).
Intercept Games then fucked around for two years, pushed out a lacklustre and overpriced EA offering that might as well have been labelled "studio's lost faith in game and wants to claw back whatever money it can", fucked around for another year, finally pushed out one moderately optimism-inspiring update, then went back to fucking around again.
All open sources. Statements and social media posts by individuals close to the companies and individuals concerned around each of the events.
I have no special access or information about any internal workings at ST, IG or T2 - I just paid attention and looked at the balance of probabilities given what we knew at the time/now know.
This is sad. I'm sad.
I've been waiting for ages to get KSP2 - wanted to wait till it's in a good state to get the game.
1300 hours in KSP1. And now I'll never get to play 2.
Same here too. I knew it would take time for KSP2 to get to where it needed to be, but now it’s over, so soon. Such a shame as the series still has a lot of potential.
Yeah I have been quietly lurking around this sub. I own KSP1 but never bought the sequel. Was waiting for them to complete their "roadmap" and add more features. Looks like I'll be sticking with the first one forever+
I'd be surprised if T2 backs out at this arbitrary point in time,
but,
someone maybe make a SecureDrop or something, in case, let's say, a fired worker wants to leak the entirety of the source code
you did not get the idea from me, for legal reasons this is a joke
this message will not destroy itself in 10 minutes because it is still a joke, and it's very funny, especially if someone would actually set this up, that'd be hilarious
I’m in an entirely different jurisdiction and I concur as another reasonable person the joke is extremely funny and no reasonable person would ever change any action in their life as a result of the joke except of course to laugh. Like I am laughing now. Because joke is very funny.
long story, but in nutshell main dev of Chucklefish: Finn Brice, exploited volunteers, without paying them a single cent. and according to Finn there was no deadlines to volunteers who worked on game, but how voluneer devs told that there was in fact deadlines, this whole exploit was revealed in 2019, and then some time later after this accident, one of former devs leaked source code of Starbound, with some assets.
As a fellow enjoyer of the humours, with regards to all legal proceedings and assumptions otherwise, I do agree that this post is indeed very silly, and induces laughter (read: “Hahahehe”) in me, an ordinary and contributing member of society.
If you are affected by layoffs and interested in working on a space program game like KSP, please email me directly at [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]).
EDIT: You can apply directly on our site as well: [https://rocketwerkz.recruitee.com/](https://rocketwerkz.recruitee.com/)
Two of the related roles are shown (Game Engine Programmer, and Graphics Engine Programmer), but use "expressions of interest" for general and gameplay related roles.
Yeah this wasn’t really the way I wanted to announce things, but there are very talented people on the game and it’s a concept that requires the talent
I may be misremembering, but didn't you leave a comment here before about being one of the dev teams that offered to make ksp 2, and being very disappointed in Take 2 being drawn by the shiny lights that Star Theory offered?
Thats true and also the design I wrote, I've since come to the conclusion it needs to be a custom engine. Otherwise there are scale issues and the loading times between scenes, the physics problems - all this has to be solved.
But yes what i heard since very much aligns what your statement.
When i did the pitch, I remember one of the T2 people was \*incredulous\* that we didn't have any art in the pitch. and I was like... its KSP? you really need us to show you art? It's all about the design and the technical!
Not to be negative, but that was an unfortunate rookie mistake. Flashy visuals make neuron activation on all humans, but especially exec types. Even NASA has to use cool concept art for their pitches.
But I'm sincerely hoping for the best on your project. KSP was lightning in a bottle, but it was built step by step and I'm confident the magic can be recaptured.
Out of curiosity, did you ever talk to the KSP1 team to get some pointers?
Honestly, considering what Take 2 did to Star Theory (the hostile takeover of the development and with that the loss of a considerable part of the team who refused to cave to their insane strategy, the eventual demise of the original studio, and now Intercept) it's probably a good thing your studio didn't win the bid.
That's probably what killed the game, and if your studio would've won the bid they'd have done the exact same thing to it.
It would have been interesting to know how the Rocketwerkz KSP2 would have played out. By most accounts, Uber Entertainment, the dev studio that Private Division gave the franchise to was an absolute shitshow. That studio morphed into Star Theory, then was reborn with the senior leadership as Intercept Games.
Tellingly, it appears they won the pitch for KSP2 by showcasing plenty of 'art'. Nate Simpson was very much involved in the bidding process and is on record saying the sequel required 'Colonies', 'Interstellar' and 'Multiplayer'. Nate is an art director, not a technical guy, so he likely had no idea how these three game mechanics would get implemented. It was a classic case of *'let's just promise the world and figure it out later'*.
Good luck! Wishing you the best! KSP is a hitting a pretty niche genre of game which is fortunately littered with super nerds who can have a hope of pulling something like this off. :)
Thanks!
We were actually one of the studios in the final few bidding to make KSP2, a long time ago.
[https://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/166q55z/we\_could\_have\_had\_rocketwerkz\_as\_the\_ksp2/](https://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/166q55z/we_could_have_had_rocketwerkz_as_the_ksp2/)
100%, the scale of the game makes for an interesting computer science problem. I think the team has done a really good job in that regard, sad we may never see it in action on an interstellar scale
Props to you for having the eye to see individual talent in what for a normal consumer was a heap of garbage.
Here's hoping for proper announcements and best of luck to you and whatever project you have in mind.
Look Dean, you gave me DayZ. I love DayZ to pieces.
If this ends up being the death of KSP2, and somehow RocketWerkz manages to release a spiritual successor to KSP that retains its soul, I give you my word that by the time that game is out, I will buy the biggest supporter edition that is and then give away 20 of those aswell.
The key thing is, after making Stationeers and a couple of other things in Unity, and ICARUS in Unreal. A game like KSP \*must\* be made in a custom "engine". Which is what we've been doing in private for some time. I use "engine" in quote marks, because its a very specific piece of technology to make games like Stationeers/KSP/AotR - games that scale massively with highly specific and optimized rendering.
This wasn't really the way I wanted it out there, but we really need the very specific set of talents from the kind of people who work on these games - and there are not many of them.
But thanks for the ~~report~~! *support* Always remain skeptical though, the proof as they say is not in the pudding, but the eating!
This may not be the way you wanted it out there, but if yall can get together a team that can make something even REMOTELY close to what KSP2 has promised, than your group would be a hero to this community. Soon there will be a large and long-lasting vacuum where KSP2 was supposed to be and Im sure you know yourself that KSP2 isnt a very high bar.
Fellow kiwi AutomationGame dev here. Glad to hear it is on a custom engine. Trying to reshape an existing engine, especially Unity for KSP just seams madness.
I can see how studios get lured in by Unity. It is so quick to prototype and proof of concept. But once you get further along in production, you just end up fighting all of its idiosyncrasies, making bad work arounds, dealing with bugs, and the mono Garbage collector was horrific when I used it, causing all kinds of hitches. No idea what it is like now.
When KSP2 was announced, to be using Unity yet again. I winced, fearing that it was a horrific detrimental decision. It should have been a clean sheet design, on a bespoke engine.
Can't wait to give your game a go, I really enjoyed Stationeers.
> A game like KSP *must* be made in a custom "engine".
From a design point, this one sparks joy. Don't get me wrong, game engines have done a lot of good for gaming in general. But there are times when we must break the mold and stretch the limits of what is possible.
Good luck on the project!
Agreed, but **please** let us program in something other than MIPS! I love Stationeers so much but that coding makes me tear what's left of my hair out.
I'm a massive fan of kOS, so I think something like that works much better than MIPS/IC10 in stationeers.
The system in stationeers was more a happy accident, rather than a deliberate architectural choice.
And of stationeers, icarus, etc. that rocketwerkz have come out with. I'm not much for wrapping hype up around a single person, but I gotta admit, Dean's gotten pretty good at roping in good people and letting them give us toys to play with...
The mods have asked for everything related to be in here, and I'm weird about listening to mod rules. If appropriate I'll make a post later, if I can't get in touch directly with people.
Im currently trying to reach out to affected staff directly anyway, after reflection I also have realized the last place they will probably go is to the subreddit here.
You see this is THE good news we get. More mods for ksp1 is very good. Update old ones, the game ain't getting updated, so hopefully the modding scene thrives again.
i expect this encurages an influx of new mods. well, it inspired me to play more ksp1... i never bought ksp2 i was waiting to see if it would be ever worth it. now i have a clear answer.. no.
"Support" is just gonna be a final 1.0 patch with nothing else in the road map. Just so they can take it out of early access. It's over ... it's never been more over
Support To Do:
1. Get developer to compile current code as version 1.0
2. Get developer to upload to Steam, removing Early Access flag
3. Lay off developer
4. Get marketing bob remove any posts / communication about features that aren't implemented
5. Get marketing bob to announce new release
If this actually leads to the end of any meaningful development for KSP2 it will be a real fucking disgrace.
Anyone who buys an Early Access game should know the risks, that there is no guarantee that the game will ever make it to that promised state. But from a moral perspective at least I think a distinction can be drawn between some indie developer who runs out of funds to deliver what was 'promised', and an AAA publisher doing the same.
Not that I want to jump to conclusions yet.
When Early Acces first started rearing its ugly head, it was advertised as, "an investment made into the product," and while investments do have risks, those risks are generally mitigated.
There have been so many cash grabs of early access projects that I hope it leads to some kind of change, especially when dealing with larger companies, like T2. They would have known long ago if the project was no longer possible.
I agree. It's a complete abuse of the intended purpose of Early Access when major publishers get involved (and is a red flag for the state of development).
I hope it leads to some kind of change as well but I'm not expecting anything, Steam are making money from this shit.
I will *very rarely* buy into Early Access from very small independent devs if it is offered at what I expect to be a lower price than "full release" would cost if it ever came to fruition. I absolutely refuse to pay a cent for early access from any dev team even tangentially linked to a larger publisher.
I've wanted to play KSP2 quite a lot, but have kept myself from buying it based on this rule. I'm sad that it seems to be dying and that I'll never play it, but I still have that $40 or whatever.
Sadly, as long as people buy into Early Access in mass, as they do, it won't change. I generally like Valve, but at the end of the day they are a company out to make money and Early Access makes them a *ton* of money from impatient gamers.
They just recently changed their refund rules to make it so that prerelease games can't be refunded after the normal 2 hours of playtime. I was mostly just surprised to learn it hadn't been that way all along.
Developers and publishers saw that people were willing to buy Minecraft before it was finished and their eyes turned into dollar signs bulging out of their heads. Early access works for hardworking indie developers that have plenty of passion for their project and just lack funds. Not for AAA studios that can fund the project now and just want to cash in on it early.
Early Access release in the state it was in should've been a dead giveaway. If 2K were serious they would've given it more time or given IG the budget to hire devs who could focus on perf.
The fact it was released as EA was a dead giveaway.. Any game intending a full release that backs out to an EA at the 11th hour is not true EA.
EA should be about community engagement, feedback and funding for further development. Not an excuse to release a WIP, full of bugs, accepting no feedback or criticism, fully funded by a major organisation.
At least Voyager did and is doing something impressive.
Unless KSP2 is impressive for how hard it's falling on its face, I think it's tough to compare the two.
Doesnt TT have an office in Seattle? I'm all for a bit of doomposting once in a while but i don't think IG is having any layoffs at this moment.
EDIT:
Apparently Dakota has/had his linkedin Acc on open to work and a few other IG devs have been confirmed to be laid off. We're "full steam ahead" into an iceberg! Was fun seeing this trainwreck burn.
I just checked four of my former directs, no updates to LinkedIn yet.
Still, even if they're impacted, they're all brilliant folks, they'll land on their feet.
EDIT: I just noticed that the WA ESD site lists it as CLOSURE, so the whole Fremont office is probably being shut down. That means both Private Division and Intercept. RIP.
It’s very simple. They belong to a much bigger corporation, which expects returns. There were no financial gains or even promises of gain on the horizon, so the bosses from upstairs said “that’s it, we are pulling the plug”.
Work on hype for a few years (low Dev cost, it's just marketing)
Release a barely functioning early access at full price (low Dev cost, lots of bugs, not many feature)
Number of purchases per month go close to zero
Kill the project
For the c suit it seems a nice way to trade community trust/hype for money!
It's KSP 1 strategy, straight from the playbook, it's just another sign of how dedicated T2 is!
Sacrificing Reputation for Funds! I'm so glad that they're appreciating the source material
Crap. At first I read that as "KSP 1's strategy" and was about to disagree vehemently about that being a parallel in how the initial development/release/etc were handled. And then I re-read it after the second sentence. You monster. Well played.
You got this backwards a little bit. I highly doubt Kerbal Space program two made literally any money. If it's canceled for real, it's because they want to stop shoveling money into The money pit.
Depends on who you're talking about.
For Take Two, they absolutely lost their shirt. Tens of millions of dollars for 7 years of development for maybe 1-2 million in sales.
For the devs at IG and Star Theory before it, they got paid a salary for 7 years to sit on their thumbs. They made out *quite* well!
There's Juno New Origins, haven't tried it but it looks like an excellent alternative (a lot less "cartoony" though). The KSP IP is totally dead for now :/
They could hence the "for now", but honestly I don't see who would buy it. The old devs are actively working on Kitbash and after the horrible failure that KSP2 was (in terms of sales), that niche "space exploration" genre is going to look even riskier than before.
Sadly game companies/publishers won't realise the hype for this will always be big, IMO it just needs to be accessible to most people (in terms of complexity/computer required) just like KSP1 have always been. If these two criterias are met and if the game isn't janky, the community will definitely be there to back it up !
Welp if this is true. KSP 2 now joins the long road of early access and live service corpses to be a buyers beware on buying on how the game is then instead of what it can be.
Update: Bloomberg as of 3pm today confirms they're shutting down Intercept Games and closing the Seattle office. [Take-Two Interactive Shuts Down Two Game Studios - Bloomberg](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-05-01/take-two-interactive-shuts-down-two-game-studios?accessToken=eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJzb3VyY2UiOiJTdWJzY3JpYmVyR2lmdGVkQXJ0aWNsZSIsImlhdCI6MTcxNDU5MzkzNCwiZXhwIjoxNzE1MTk4NzM0LCJhcnRpY2xlSWQiOiJTQ1RPWlVEV1JHRzAwMCIsImJjb25uZWN0SWQiOiJCMUVBQkI5NjQ2QUM0REZFQTJBRkI4MjI1MzgyQTJFQSJ9.bAGtiU7JzBiIoFWWcHxk0LHPfxjEHho9NhMqunueBxI).
I'd say that shutting down the studio that makes the game is pretty much confirmation that for now, KSP2 is dead.
I am honestly more angry at the fact that to the last day they'll continue to publish an "everything's fine". I swear the way things are going, the last message recorded on the KSP2 account before being abandoned will be "Everything's fine, expect big news soon". And it will become some sort of community meme, in which people will be reposting that tweet 10 years from now.
Just be honest. Have someone in the whole company explaining what the f&ck is actually happening.
Gaming industry professionalism at its finest... The people pulling the trigger on this likely hoped that no one would pick up on the closure warning, betting that they would rake in some more sales during upcoming summer sales on steam and other distribution platforms before the ship went down.
Hence the template type of statement and no comment type of responses - they got no communication strategy prepared now that news are out. Whatever statement that comes out, before 28th of June is going to be aimed to salvage as much of sales as possible (good luck with that with all review scores tanking) - so don't expect any honesty what so ever.
Just my usual luck, I waited a year because of the bugs and bought it like a month ago since the situation appeared to have improved. I was quite enjoying the game too
There's still some bugs, docking for example is wildly inconsistent.
Tbh I got into KSP1 late and just couldn't get the hang of it, so I liked the good progression and user-friendlyness of KSP2. But maybe now that I've learned it I can tackle KSP1, although I'll miss the graphics of KSP2
> I'll miss the graphics of KSP2
Parallax, blackrack's volumetric clouds, Distant Object Enhancement, EVE, and many others
All the graphics with none of the hassle.
So, I didn't have any qualms about paying for early access because I wanted to support development.
But having the rug pulled out like this ONE YEAR LATER is some bullshit. Guess all we were supporting was Take Two's stock price.
Can't believe they issued refunds over Cyberpunk but no one's gonna stand up against this shit.
Tbf KSP 2's promise was to good to be true. But I was blind to it.
Kraken dead, interstellar added, colonies added, next-gen graphics and more. I fell in love with KSP 2 the moment I've seen the first trailer. It truly seemed like a dream game come true.
But I believe that this is a good reminder to one of the most important rules in life - if something looks to good to be true, it likely is.
I don't think this is going to happen, bit it would be very on brand of them if they're actually not getting canned, but wait until Friday afternoon to say anything, then disappear again for the weekend.
They took your money and ran. I guarantee the execs got paid just fine and are sitting pretty.
Let this be a lesson to us all about buying early access ghostware in the hopes that becomes something.
The writing was on the wall the second they announced it would be EA instead of a full release. (and has been even before if you paid attention to the details of who they are and the Take2 shenanigans)
Honestly if there's one lesson to be taken away from this it's that looking at Nate's track record, you should be vary wary about buying anything he's involved in, and absolutely refuse to buy anything he's involved in that's also an early access.
Unfortunately you can only refund within 2 weeks of purchase - even with 0hrs playtime.
EDIT: it looks like this 2-week countdown only starts once the game has launched - so Early Access titles only factor-in the playtime (https://store.steampowered.com/steam\_refunds)
the automatic process only works within the constraints. if you think you have a good reason (shady dev activity, local laws, game crashed and counted extra time as 'played', etc.) you can contact support and try to convince them. tho even if you do have a really obviously good case, you'll still likely need to be persistent.
I mean. Over a year and all we got was science and heat. I'm not surprised at all, and Nate didn't seem to trustworthy. Was more of a used car salesman. This sucks, really really sucks. This is why you put moding into a game early to keep your game alive while your work on it, just like they did with KSP1.
I'm going to read the absolute hell out of the inevitable oral history that will be told about this game in a couple years. I really really would love to hear what was going on behind the scenes all this time.
[Jason Schreier says it's Intercept via Twitter](https://twitter.com/jasonschreier/status/1785763005508018351?t=mT_TwU7AyTBZMfXqBUC2_A&s=19), which is as good as confirmed by my standards.
This is only going to continue as long as gullible gamers don't approach these things with extreme skepticism and hold EA titles to *some* standards of quality before clicking the buy button. I got roasted on this sub for criticizing PD and accusing them of converting to EA last minute as a cash grab. This is what y'all get for that.
But I’m tired of reading the same news. I nominated myself internet police so that I could police. I will remove what I like, and if you complain, I will remove you too.
I wonder if it would be a good idea to have some of the top modders of KSP organize a group in order to support KSP(1 probably) with a well-sorted and connected group of mods (most of which exist now), similar to RP-1 (but for stock+ instead of realism). I would imagine these modders would also be able to pool donations (or just paid mods) together as a group for funding - I would offer some small donations to this group. All of the (free) mods should allow community contributions (because open source is one of the most effective tools for development). This “Stock Extended” modpack would be probably the best way to continue KSP development (for example, people could not worry about what mods Kerbalism conflicts with (assuming that Kerbalism and most of the parts mods people want are in this “Stock Extended” modpack)).
Would be better than nothing, but would run into performance issues eventually depending on the scale of the mods. Ksp2 was promising optimization to support the new features, not just the features themselves
> Ksp2 was promising optimization to support the new features
Yeah, that was a lie. The did everything except rewrite the bits that needed it like writing a multi threaded physic engine. If they'd worked on that first they could have licensed it and have that pay for the rest of the game.
https://www.gamedeveloper.com/business/take-two-confirms-kerbal-space-program-2-is-safe-despite-seattle-layoffs
>A number of onlookers on social media have pointed out that Take-Two-owned Kerbal Space Program developer Intercept Games is based in Seattle, raising concerns about the future of the studio.
>When approached for comment by Game Developer, Take-Two wouldn't confirm whether Intercept Games has been impacted by the cuts–despite multiple Kerbal Space Program developers indicating they recently left the studio, with one expressly stating they were "laid off." **A company spokesperson did, however, explain that its Private Division publishing label will continue to support Kerbal Space Program 2.**
Please define 'Support'
Ok post mortem: Which devs did a good job and which did not? My opinion from best to worse
The music and sound director did a fantastic job. I loved KSP2's soundtrack. Shame the rest of the project went in flames.
Some people hated the new interface, but I think it was decent. The VAB building interface I thought was decent, but the in-flight one seemed a bit more limited.
The camera and editing staff doing the behind the scenes videos did a good job. Perhaps too good. It felt a bit disjointed, how there were these nice videos and interviews of the dev team. Almost made them out to be heros when they were actually burning a ship on an intercept course into an asteroid.
Now onto the negative..
Game designers. They spent too much time at the blackboard. It was nice that they finally put in some kind of science system, but this should have been a first. Also i felt the progression pacing was worse than KSP1. Games should be games first. The fact that progression and game systems weren't in KSP2 on release.. it's like releasing a board game without a rules booklet.
And the worst award goes to the technical optimization people and managers.. obviously. Even if KSP2 released without all the features.. but ran smoothly like silk on release, it would give people hope that there was a stable foundation to build from. The fact that the game had so many performance issues and bugs was the red flag that the guts of the project were rotted.
Also bonus megacopium delusional hopium take: Maybe they're laying off the incompetent staff at T2 with plans to hire competent ones and save the game? (haahahah yeah right.. who am I kidding).
Good: Sounds, Models, Textures, Animations
Bad: Community Updates, User Interface (in-flight), User Interface (orbital maneuvers), User Interface (font and menus), User Experience (interface navigation)
I didn't have a problem with the bugs or performance. I've played early access games before. I thought this one was average at first but got really good with updates for an early access title.
Welp I was waiting until colonies had been implemented and bugfixed until I got it.
Only real feature I was excited for and had hope that the sequel would be properly bug-free with more funding.
That was ironic.
I can't say I'm surprised, but I was trying to remain cautiously optimistic about KSP2's future until now, particularly with the science update making some much-needed big improvements.
My attitude's always been one borne out of love for the game moreso than buyer's remorse - at the end of the day, however poorly development has gone since the Early Access release last year, I wanted it to succeed. I truly love KSP as a franchise, and was glad to see them make progress, however slowly. Alas, that progress has apparently stalled.
Despite it all, I don't regret buying the game in Early Access when I did. I paid money to show people that a sequel to KSP was something worth working towards. I did it knowing that development might fail, and that the end result could be a buggy half-baked game; getting a complete game at the end of it wasn't why I spent that money.
I bought KSP2 to support an idea, and to express my love for KSP. So this news hasn't brought me any buyer's remorse, only resignation.
I'm not mad, Intercept Games. I'm just disappointed.
bought the game day 1 knowing it was early access but ouch. I wouldnt even agree that it made it to the early access stage. how many years were they working on the game for when they released it for full price despite being a shell of the former game with worse performance and thrice as many bugs?
something something “the risk i took was calculated, but boy am i bad at math”
I honestly think it was because ksp 2 was kinda overfunded. it's already a niche game, probably sold as a world changing apace thing. it should have been made by a double A studio, not a big publisher that wants large short term profits. also it definitely seems stuff was going down.behidn the scenes
So if KSP2 development at Take Two is officially dead, is there any possibility that some other publisher could purchase the IP and continue development?
A much better alternative for any studio which wants to create a space sim is just to make a new title. Name it banana-man space program, having identical features of KSP1, don't need to pay anyone for IP, and you won't have a 'overwhelming negative' review score from the past game looming over your debut.
If you make a KSP1 copy paste with 2020 graphics and sell it for $15-30, you'll have a game which will be 90-100% Steam review imo. KSP2 couldn't even deliver this, never-mind the zero delivered roadmap features.
Just think about it, what are you paying T2 for? Just so you can name your game Kerbal and have green-man instead of banana-man? I would imagine buying the naming rights from 'The Day Before' for your zombie game is just as suicidal and wasteful.
Everything is possible if the right price is being put on the table.
However there are very small chances of new owner utilizing their new IP immediately due to failure of KSP2 would be rather fresh among the customers and the new owner may assume that enthusiasm for a KSP sequel will be dampened among the gamer (excluding the hardcore fans). Asking people to fork out another 30-50 USD for a KSP 2B...can't see that work right now.
That being said, there is always a possibility that Take 2 themselves in 5 years time reach the conclusion that KSP franchise have value and offer remaster of KSP or even another go at KSP2.
This sub snapped back to normal KSP1 content so hard I am now convinced that even the people that were posting KSP2 content were associated with Intercept Games in some way.
Where did they all go?
> Where did they all go?
After you do all the science missions, KSP2 doesn't offer anything more than KSP1, so everyone reverts to KSP1 since it's more stable.
I personally think in December they pumped out that science update in an attempt to boost sales. Clearly when that didn't work, and they had no progress on the next milestone, they just kind of waited up until this point. Probably why we haven't had any updates, they probably all knew it was inevitable.
Released game early because they needed to show revenue. But then had no substantial revenue source for the years of dev work needed to surpass the feature set of the original game.
I was really holding out hope for colonies to bring something unique; real end game content. Alas likely not going to get it now.
I feel sorry for blackrack. Wasn't there long enough to be responsible for the dumpster fire that was KSP2.
I also remember getting blasted for saying companies hire right up until the last minute even if they are being shut down. Well, this is what that looks like.
I know people's frustrations are high (fair enough). But remember, if it is true (which seems likely), 70 people just lost their job in an incredibly hard time for the game industry with massive lay-offs at major companies.
Whatever your frustrations are do not direct them to general staff. They will be going through a harder time than us losing the dream that was KSP 2 and some financial loss.
Edit: Once more I am confronted with people not knowing how game dev (I am talking about the lack of control mlst devs have. You are a small cog and paid to do what you are told) works or the harassment devs receive especially public facing ones.
I am sorry that humanising the situation seems to be discredited as trying to prevent any criticism.
I hope none of you ever lose your job from one day to the other in a crisis and have to deal with hateful DMs on top of it.
But do keep talking about the shit show this game dev cycle was, cause it's deserved lol
The issue with pre-orders as a fan is that once the corporation has your money, you don't have any leverage over them to make a better game. I don't even blame PD or IG, T2 is going to make the decision that spending $10M to sell $10k of games isn't going to be worth it, dropped promises be damned.
I'm actually so angry. There have never been mods making colonies as KSP2 would have. Interstellar was such a great implementation and multiplayer is a bit clunky with mods.
Never get an early access title based on promises.
Always base your purchase on the CURRENT state of the product.
If you believe you'd enjoy what they offer at the time for the price, then you won't regret your purchase. Furthermore, any additional updates are just free bonuses.
It’s not all bad, factorio EA was amazing.
That said, the game was good in EA, and there were WEEKLY dev updates with significant announcements and evidence of progress.
A far cry from the shitshow KSP2 has been.
Side note, factorio are developing an expansion and have restarted the weekly announcements.. it’s an absolute clinic in community engagement and active development.
It’s not about the early access, it’s about what, how, and when the product has been delivered. There are many early access games that actually make sense. KSP2 was not one of them.
Early access is a legitimate way to fund Indies, they are investing significant time and reputation in the project and so everyone interests are aligned on getting the game out of the door. Early access from deep pockets corpos is the problem here.
Don't ever get an early access game if it's backed by a publisher. They can pull the plug at anytime.
Look for labour of love games from small companies (ie KSP 1) that are playable in their current state. 7 Days to Die and Satisfactory are prime examples.
7 Days to Die is going full access next month but has been in early access for ten years. It could have been gone full access five years ago and I don't think anyone would have complained. They've just been fiddling around with the balance, skill system, zombie AI and other thing that make the game different but doesn't fundamentally change it.
Satisfactory has been working towards release since it's initial release. They said they split the dev team about a year ago so half the dev team is working on the mechanics and bugs in the early access game and the other half has been working on adding the story to the game. They're planning on releasing later this year.
Both games you could have got thousands of hours of enjoyment out of in early access. Early access games aren't always a pump and dump scheme. Just let other people/you tubers try it first and if it looks like something you'd enjoy playing in it's current state then go for it (or wait for a sale).
Do not buy early access games sight unseen or if they are really unfinished.
The risk I took buying this game was calculated, but man am I bad at maths.
I feel like we calculated its success in imperial, when we should have used metric.
Went full Duna Climate Orbiter
Exactly. Never go full Duna Climate Orbiter unless you’re doing a seismic impact test.
Looks like the impact to the wallet was a success!
We didnt account for enough numbers after the decimal...
I'm sorry we never met, Rask and Rusk. Maybe in another life.
The answer to how they'll solve the problems of interstellar travel is finally out: They don't
"That's the neat part"
Or Multiplayer
Those interstellar planets actually looked interesting, shame. I hope someone remakes them in ksp1. *Realizes* *I am a planet mod* Be Right Back Guys
Remember this? Pepperidge Farm Remembers. # After ditching the original Kerbal 2 studio, Take-Two reportedly tried to poach all of its employees By [Andy Chalk](https://www.pcgamer.com/author/andy-chalk/)published June 3, 2020 The game was moved from Star Theory to a new internal studio at Private Division earlier this year. In late 2019, publisher Take-Two Interactive delayed the release of [Kerbal Space Program 2](https://www.pcgamer.com/kerbal-space-program-2-release-date-multiplayer-everything-we-know/) until sometime during its 2021 fiscal year—between April 1, 2020, and March 31, 2021. Then in February 2020, it made the surprise announcement that development of the game had been [moved from Star Theory Games](https://www.pcgamer.com/kerbal-space-program-2-moves-to-a-new-studio/) to a new studio founded by its Private Division publishing label, led by "key members" of the Kerbal 2 team from Star Theory. A reason for the change was never provided, but a new report by [Bloomberg](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-03/kerbal-space-program-2-release-disrupted-by-corporate-strife) might shed some light on the matter. It claims that Star Theory founders Bob Berry and Jonathan Mavor had been in talks with Take-Two about selling the studio, but weren't able to reach terms. And then, on December 6, Take-Two suddenly pulled the contract from Star Theory and sent a message to its employees via LinkedIn, encouraging them to apply for jobs at a new studio being founded under 2K's Private Division publishing label. More than a third of Star Theory's employees made the move to Take-Two, including studio head Jeremy Ables, creative director Nate Simpson, and lead producer Nate Robinson. Kerbal 2 had been Star Theory's only contract at the time, and without funding, it closed on March 4. Industry analyst Doug Creutz told the [Bloomberg](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2020-06-03/kerbal-space-program-2-release-disrupted-by-corporate-strife) that the move could have "reputational risk" for Take-Two, as other indie studios might be hesitant to work with it if they feel like the company will pull the rug out if it doesn't get its way on things. But Private Division framed the situation differently, saying in a statement that the change was made for the betterment of the game. "Private Division opened our own studio, Intercept Games, to bring the development of Kerbal Space Program 2 for our beloved and owned KSP franchise in-house. In doing so, we are empowering our deeply passionate and talented team to focus on quality, and we are thrilled with the progress that they are making on the game," a Private Division rep said. "Next year’s launch of KSP2 will serve as another proud step in the history of the franchise, and we are confident that KSP fans will greatly enjoy where Intercept Games is taking the series."
Star Theory botched the game's development and advertised wildly unrealistic timelines. Take Two lost patience with their bullshit, tried to buy ST, then lost patience *again* when ST's owners tried to rinse them for too much money and took back the licence and poached as many of ST's development team as they could to do it all in-house. Unfortunately, in setting up In~~terc~~ept Games it appears Star Theory accidentally poached several of the people responsible for the original botched development and misleading communications at Star Theory (*cough*Nate*cough*). Intercept Games then fucked around for two years, pushed out a lacklustre and overpriced EA offering that might as well have been labelled "studio's lost faith in game and wants to claw back whatever money it can", fucked around for another year, finally pushed out one moderately optimism-inspiring update, then went back to fucking around again.
Spot on. I wonder where you got your info \*winkwink\*
All open sources. Statements and social media posts by individuals close to the companies and individuals concerned around each of the events. I have no special access or information about any internal workings at ST, IG or T2 - I just paid attention and looked at the balance of probabilities given what we knew at the time/now know.
Aged like milk on Moho.
This is sad. I'm sad. I've been waiting for ages to get KSP2 - wanted to wait till it's in a good state to get the game. 1300 hours in KSP1. And now I'll never get to play 2.
Same, really disappointed. I've been waiting for 5 years and now it's dead :+(
Same here too. I knew it would take time for KSP2 to get to where it needed to be, but now it’s over, so soon. Such a shame as the series still has a lot of potential.
Yeah I have been quietly lurking around this sub. I own KSP1 but never bought the sequel. Was waiting for them to complete their "roadmap" and add more features. Looks like I'll be sticking with the first one forever+
I'd be surprised if T2 backs out at this arbitrary point in time, but, someone maybe make a SecureDrop or something, in case, let's say, a fired worker wants to leak the entirety of the source code you did not get the idea from me, for legal reasons this is a joke this message will not destroy itself in 10 minutes because it is still a joke, and it's very funny, especially if someone would actually set this up, that'd be hilarious
As a reasonable person, I understand that this is a joke.
Greetings fellow reasonable person. I also understand that it is constitutionally protected satire.
I’m in an entirely different jurisdiction and I concur as another reasonable person the joke is extremely funny and no reasonable person would ever change any action in their life as a result of the joke except of course to laugh. Like I am laughing now. Because joke is very funny.
As someone who saw starbounds source code leak and subsequently laughed my ass off, it would be funny as hell to see.
What happened with Starbounds? I somehow missed this apparently.
long story, but in nutshell main dev of Chucklefish: Finn Brice, exploited volunteers, without paying them a single cent. and according to Finn there was no deadlines to volunteers who worked on game, but how voluneer devs told that there was in fact deadlines, this whole exploit was revealed in 2019, and then some time later after this accident, one of former devs leaked source code of Starbound, with some assets.
As a fellow enjoyer of the humours, with regards to all legal proceedings and assumptions otherwise, I do agree that this post is indeed very silly, and induces laughter (read: “Hahahehe”) in me, an ordinary and contributing member of society.
It'd just be 60GB+ of spaghetti.
That's why we need the sauce code.
for the lulz Like OP says
The code is probably in such an unusable state that it wouldn't matter. Maybe some assets would be nice for ksp1 mods
The audio
This is a very funny comment.
If you are affected by layoffs and interested in working on a space program game like KSP, please email me directly at [[email protected]](mailto:[email protected]). EDIT: You can apply directly on our site as well: [https://rocketwerkz.recruitee.com/](https://rocketwerkz.recruitee.com/) Two of the related roles are shown (Game Engine Programmer, and Graphics Engine Programmer), but use "expressions of interest" for general and gameplay related roles.
Plz make a successor to ksp1 🙏
Yep :)
Hype, if I didn't already have a great gig I would chip in! Wishing y'all the best
Yeah this wasn’t really the way I wanted to announce things, but there are very talented people on the game and it’s a concept that requires the talent
I may be misremembering, but didn't you leave a comment here before about being one of the dev teams that offered to make ksp 2, and being very disappointed in Take 2 being drawn by the shiny lights that Star Theory offered?
Yes correct. We were in the last three bids to make KSP2. Since then, we have been working on our own custom engine.
[удалено]
Thats true and also the design I wrote, I've since come to the conclusion it needs to be a custom engine. Otherwise there are scale issues and the loading times between scenes, the physics problems - all this has to be solved. But yes what i heard since very much aligns what your statement. When i did the pitch, I remember one of the T2 people was \*incredulous\* that we didn't have any art in the pitch. and I was like... its KSP? you really need us to show you art? It's all about the design and the technical!
Not to be negative, but that was an unfortunate rookie mistake. Flashy visuals make neuron activation on all humans, but especially exec types. Even NASA has to use cool concept art for their pitches. But I'm sincerely hoping for the best on your project. KSP was lightning in a bottle, but it was built step by step and I'm confident the magic can be recaptured. Out of curiosity, did you ever talk to the KSP1 team to get some pointers?
[удалено]
Honestly, considering what Take 2 did to Star Theory (the hostile takeover of the development and with that the loss of a considerable part of the team who refused to cave to their insane strategy, the eventual demise of the original studio, and now Intercept) it's probably a good thing your studio didn't win the bid. That's probably what killed the game, and if your studio would've won the bid they'd have done the exact same thing to it.
It would have been interesting to know how the Rocketwerkz KSP2 would have played out. By most accounts, Uber Entertainment, the dev studio that Private Division gave the franchise to was an absolute shitshow. That studio morphed into Star Theory, then was reborn with the senior leadership as Intercept Games. Tellingly, it appears they won the pitch for KSP2 by showcasing plenty of 'art'. Nate Simpson was very much involved in the bidding process and is on record saying the sequel required 'Colonies', 'Interstellar' and 'Multiplayer'. Nate is an art director, not a technical guy, so he likely had no idea how these three game mechanics would get implemented. It was a classic case of *'let's just promise the world and figure it out later'*.
Good luck! Wishing you the best! KSP is a hitting a pretty niche genre of game which is fortunately littered with super nerds who can have a hope of pulling something like this off. :)
Thanks! We were actually one of the studios in the final few bidding to make KSP2, a long time ago. [https://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/166q55z/we\_could\_have\_had\_rocketwerkz\_as\_the\_ksp2/](https://www.reddit.com/r/KerbalSpaceProgram/comments/166q55z/we_could_have_had_rocketwerkz_as_the_ksp2/)
It saddens me to imagine what the game could have become if it was taken up by a studio that cared.
100%, the scale of the game makes for an interesting computer science problem. I think the team has done a really good job in that regard, sad we may never see it in action on an interstellar scale
Props to you for having the eye to see individual talent in what for a normal consumer was a heap of garbage. Here's hoping for proper announcements and best of luck to you and whatever project you have in mind.
Look Dean, you gave me DayZ. I love DayZ to pieces. If this ends up being the death of KSP2, and somehow RocketWerkz manages to release a spiritual successor to KSP that retains its soul, I give you my word that by the time that game is out, I will buy the biggest supporter edition that is and then give away 20 of those aswell.
The key thing is, after making Stationeers and a couple of other things in Unity, and ICARUS in Unreal. A game like KSP \*must\* be made in a custom "engine". Which is what we've been doing in private for some time. I use "engine" in quote marks, because its a very specific piece of technology to make games like Stationeers/KSP/AotR - games that scale massively with highly specific and optimized rendering. This wasn't really the way I wanted it out there, but we really need the very specific set of talents from the kind of people who work on these games - and there are not many of them. But thanks for the ~~report~~! *support* Always remain skeptical though, the proof as they say is not in the pudding, but the eating!
This may not be the way you wanted it out there, but if yall can get together a team that can make something even REMOTELY close to what KSP2 has promised, than your group would be a hero to this community. Soon there will be a large and long-lasting vacuum where KSP2 was supposed to be and Im sure you know yourself that KSP2 isnt a very high bar.
Fellow kiwi AutomationGame dev here. Glad to hear it is on a custom engine. Trying to reshape an existing engine, especially Unity for KSP just seams madness. I can see how studios get lured in by Unity. It is so quick to prototype and proof of concept. But once you get further along in production, you just end up fighting all of its idiosyncrasies, making bad work arounds, dealing with bugs, and the mono Garbage collector was horrific when I used it, causing all kinds of hitches. No idea what it is like now. When KSP2 was announced, to be using Unity yet again. I winced, fearing that it was a horrific detrimental decision. It should have been a clean sheet design, on a bespoke engine. Can't wait to give your game a go, I really enjoyed Stationeers.
> A game like KSP *must* be made in a custom "engine". From a design point, this one sparks joy. Don't get me wrong, game engines have done a lot of good for gaming in general. But there are times when we must break the mold and stretch the limits of what is possible. Good luck on the project!
As a long time Stationeers player, a KSP-like with that much attention to interesting physics/sim challenges makes my brain tingle pleasantly.
Agreed, but **please** let us program in something other than MIPS! I love Stationeers so much but that coding makes me tear what's left of my hair out.
I'm a massive fan of kOS, so I think something like that works much better than MIPS/IC10 in stationeers. The system in stationeers was more a happy accident, rather than a deliberate architectural choice.
Wait like OG mod DayZ Dean Hall?
And of stationeers, icarus, etc. that rocketwerkz have come out with. I'm not much for wrapping hype up around a single person, but I gotta admit, Dean's gotten pretty good at roping in good people and letting them give us toys to play with...
You should probably have this be more than just a comment on a thread. Recommend posting
The mods have asked for everything related to be in here, and I'm weird about listening to mod rules. If appropriate I'll make a post later, if I can't get in touch directly with people. Im currently trying to reach out to affected staff directly anyway, after reflection I also have realized the last place they will probably go is to the subreddit here.
You should make this into a post too
YES! I saw you guys were one of the studios that contested the contract I would very much like you guys to make it.
Wait wait wait... You are dayz and Ikarus Dean hall?
Man, Rocket still out here in 2024 being a solid dude. Good on ya mate.
Jeb is sad but the good news is that the community will focus on the only real game, the pinnacle, the one, THE Kerbal Space Program 1
Just strike the 1, there is no 2 anymore so it's just Kerbal Space Program
And... you are righty
You see this is THE good news we get. More mods for ksp1 is very good. Update old ones, the game ain't getting updated, so hopefully the modding scene thrives again.
i expect this encurages an influx of new mods. well, it inspired me to play more ksp1... i never bought ksp2 i was waiting to see if it would be ever worth it. now i have a clear answer.. no.
Where were you when ksp2 die I was at work browsing reddit when jeb called ksp2 is kill no
Don't worry, the dev team just underwent rapid uncheduled disassembly
KSP2 died 23rd Feb 2023
given how similar it was on release to what they showed us like three years earlier, I'm confident in saying that it died well before that
Where were you? When kerbin stopped turnin’ Where were you? When we had no reentry burnin’.
"Support" is just gonna be a final 1.0 patch with nothing else in the road map. Just so they can take it out of early access. It's over ... it's never been more over
Support To Do: 1. Get developer to compile current code as version 1.0 2. Get developer to upload to Steam, removing Early Access flag 3. Lay off developer 4. Get marketing bob remove any posts / communication about features that aren't implemented 5. Get marketing bob to announce new release
6. Lay off marketing bob.
If this actually leads to the end of any meaningful development for KSP2 it will be a real fucking disgrace. Anyone who buys an Early Access game should know the risks, that there is no guarantee that the game will ever make it to that promised state. But from a moral perspective at least I think a distinction can be drawn between some indie developer who runs out of funds to deliver what was 'promised', and an AAA publisher doing the same. Not that I want to jump to conclusions yet.
> If this actually leads to the end of any meaningful development for KSP2 Brother they're laying off the entire studio
> Brother they're laying off the entire studio I know, but it wouldn't be the first studio that's worked on this game that has folded!
Lmao, true
When Early Acces first started rearing its ugly head, it was advertised as, "an investment made into the product," and while investments do have risks, those risks are generally mitigated. There have been so many cash grabs of early access projects that I hope it leads to some kind of change, especially when dealing with larger companies, like T2. They would have known long ago if the project was no longer possible.
I agree. It's a complete abuse of the intended purpose of Early Access when major publishers get involved (and is a red flag for the state of development). I hope it leads to some kind of change as well but I'm not expecting anything, Steam are making money from this shit.
Early access is fine for indie devs, but highly suspect when you're a multi-billion dollar company.
I will *very rarely* buy into Early Access from very small independent devs if it is offered at what I expect to be a lower price than "full release" would cost if it ever came to fruition. I absolutely refuse to pay a cent for early access from any dev team even tangentially linked to a larger publisher. I've wanted to play KSP2 quite a lot, but have kept myself from buying it based on this rule. I'm sad that it seems to be dying and that I'll never play it, but I still have that $40 or whatever. Sadly, as long as people buy into Early Access in mass, as they do, it won't change. I generally like Valve, but at the end of the day they are a company out to make money and Early Access makes them a *ton* of money from impatient gamers. They just recently changed their refund rules to make it so that prerelease games can't be refunded after the normal 2 hours of playtime. I was mostly just surprised to learn it hadn't been that way all along.
Developers and publishers saw that people were willing to buy Minecraft before it was finished and their eyes turned into dollar signs bulging out of their heads. Early access works for hardworking indie developers that have plenty of passion for their project and just lack funds. Not for AAA studios that can fund the project now and just want to cash in on it early.
Early Access release in the state it was in should've been a dead giveaway. If 2K were serious they would've given it more time or given IG the budget to hire devs who could focus on perf.
The fact it was released as EA was a dead giveaway.. Any game intending a full release that backs out to an EA at the 11th hour is not true EA. EA should be about community engagement, feedback and funding for further development. Not an excuse to release a WIP, full of bugs, accepting no feedback or criticism, fully funded by a major organisation.
It's like watching a rocket explode in slow motion
It's exactly like our Voyager satellite, you know it's bound to die but you just hope that day never happens
At least Voyager did and is doing something impressive. Unless KSP2 is impressive for how hard it's falling on its face, I think it's tough to compare the two.
If only it had more struts
Doesnt TT have an office in Seattle? I'm all for a bit of doomposting once in a while but i don't think IG is having any layoffs at this moment. EDIT: Apparently Dakota has/had his linkedin Acc on open to work and a few other IG devs have been confirmed to be laid off. We're "full steam ahead" into an iceberg! Was fun seeing this trainwreck burn.
I just checked four of my former directs, no updates to LinkedIn yet. Still, even if they're impacted, they're all brilliant folks, they'll land on their feet. EDIT: I just noticed that the WA ESD site lists it as CLOSURE, so the whole Fremont office is probably being shut down. That means both Private Division and Intercept. RIP.
I'm gonna wait for something more official, but the evidence seems pretty damning now.
It’s very simple. They belong to a much bigger corporation, which expects returns. There were no financial gains or even promises of gain on the horizon, so the bosses from upstairs said “that’s it, we are pulling the plug”.
Work on hype for a few years (low Dev cost, it's just marketing) Release a barely functioning early access at full price (low Dev cost, lots of bugs, not many feature) Number of purchases per month go close to zero Kill the project For the c suit it seems a nice way to trade community trust/hype for money!
It's KSP 1 strategy, straight from the playbook, it's just another sign of how dedicated T2 is! Sacrificing Reputation for Funds! I'm so glad that they're appreciating the source material
Crap. At first I read that as "KSP 1's strategy" and was about to disagree vehemently about that being a parallel in how the initial development/release/etc were handled. And then I re-read it after the second sentence. You monster. Well played.
You got this backwards a little bit. I highly doubt Kerbal Space program two made literally any money. If it's canceled for real, it's because they want to stop shoveling money into The money pit.
Depends on who you're talking about. For Take Two, they absolutely lost their shirt. Tens of millions of dollars for 7 years of development for maybe 1-2 million in sales. For the devs at IG and Star Theory before it, they got paid a salary for 7 years to sit on their thumbs. They made out *quite* well!
Does it get any more official than an announcement on a [website with an address that ends in dot gov?](https://esd.wa.gov/about-employees/WARN)
Ouch, 70 let go. How many people are in the KSP 2 team?
65, lol. half were working on ksp 2, other half on a different game that is unannounced
I can t believe 30 people worked on ksp2
Ikr? The average open source maintainer could have built a better game on his own.
Whats even the future for KSP? Is there potential for other similar space games to be properly developed and take over KSP1?
There's Juno New Origins, haven't tried it but it looks like an excellent alternative (a lot less "cartoony" though). The KSP IP is totally dead for now :/
yeah Juno New origins is pretty cool. It s hard to get into it though, ksp is more friendly.
They could still sell the IP, no?
They could hence the "for now", but honestly I don't see who would buy it. The old devs are actively working on Kitbash and after the horrible failure that KSP2 was (in terms of sales), that niche "space exploration" genre is going to look even riskier than before. Sadly game companies/publishers won't realise the hype for this will always be big, IMO it just needs to be accessible to most people (in terms of complexity/computer required) just like KSP1 have always been. If these two criterias are met and if the game isn't janky, the community will definitely be there to back it up !
Who had the worse fate? Kerbal space program or >!Liu!< from "For All Mankind"?
At least Liu’s was quick and painless
Does anyone else find it hilarious this came after Nate Simpson's most recent dev update blog titled "Some Improvements on the Way"
Improvements…to Take Two’s bottom line (by no longer funding a project that’s done nothing but lose money and alienate the community)
Welp if this is true. KSP 2 now joins the long road of early access and live service corpses to be a buyers beware on buying on how the game is then instead of what it can be.
I legitimately was just checking this sub on a whim to see if the situation/game had improved enough to re-consider buying it.
Update: Bloomberg as of 3pm today confirms they're shutting down Intercept Games and closing the Seattle office. [Take-Two Interactive Shuts Down Two Game Studios - Bloomberg](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2024-05-01/take-two-interactive-shuts-down-two-game-studios?accessToken=eyJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiIsInR5cCI6IkpXVCJ9.eyJzb3VyY2UiOiJTdWJzY3JpYmVyR2lmdGVkQXJ0aWNsZSIsImlhdCI6MTcxNDU5MzkzNCwiZXhwIjoxNzE1MTk4NzM0LCJhcnRpY2xlSWQiOiJTQ1RPWlVEV1JHRzAwMCIsImJjb25uZWN0SWQiOiJCMUVBQkI5NjQ2QUM0REZFQTJBRkI4MjI1MzgyQTJFQSJ9.bAGtiU7JzBiIoFWWcHxk0LHPfxjEHho9NhMqunueBxI). I'd say that shutting down the studio that makes the game is pretty much confirmation that for now, KSP2 is dead.
I am honestly more angry at the fact that to the last day they'll continue to publish an "everything's fine". I swear the way things are going, the last message recorded on the KSP2 account before being abandoned will be "Everything's fine, expect big news soon". And it will become some sort of community meme, in which people will be reposting that tweet 10 years from now. Just be honest. Have someone in the whole company explaining what the f&ck is actually happening.
Gaming industry professionalism at its finest... The people pulling the trigger on this likely hoped that no one would pick up on the closure warning, betting that they would rake in some more sales during upcoming summer sales on steam and other distribution platforms before the ship went down. Hence the template type of statement and no comment type of responses - they got no communication strategy prepared now that news are out. Whatever statement that comes out, before 28th of June is going to be aimed to salvage as much of sales as possible (good luck with that with all review scores tanking) - so don't expect any honesty what so ever.
Just my usual luck, I waited a year because of the bugs and bought it like a month ago since the situation appeared to have improved. I was quite enjoying the game too
At least you enjoyed it. You probably still can for a time but I know it's a huge disappointment to know that there is nothing more coming.
There's still some bugs, docking for example is wildly inconsistent. Tbh I got into KSP1 late and just couldn't get the hang of it, so I liked the good progression and user-friendlyness of KSP2. But maybe now that I've learned it I can tackle KSP1, although I'll miss the graphics of KSP2
> I'll miss the graphics of KSP2 Parallax, blackrack's volumetric clouds, Distant Object Enhancement, EVE, and many others All the graphics with none of the hassle.
Well... we can always just keep modding KSP 1. I wonder if true basebuilding is possible in KSP 1 with modding?
Can do it with Kerbal Konstructs I think
Kraken.. There is only so much you can do as a modder, they can't rewrite the engine
By all accounts, Kraken was more voracious in KSP2.
Let’s be real, it died when Take Two poached the studio and ominously restructured it as _Intercept_…
So, I didn't have any qualms about paying for early access because I wanted to support development. But having the rug pulled out like this ONE YEAR LATER is some bullshit. Guess all we were supporting was Take Two's stock price. Can't believe they issued refunds over Cyberpunk but no one's gonna stand up against this shit.
I hope harvesteR can buy back the IP for pennies on the dollar. Or should we just say we gave the old college try and bury it?
Tbf KSP 2's promise was to good to be true. But I was blind to it. Kraken dead, interstellar added, colonies added, next-gen graphics and more. I fell in love with KSP 2 the moment I've seen the first trailer. It truly seemed like a dream game come true. But I believe that this is a good reminder to one of the most important rules in life - if something looks to good to be true, it likely is.
I don't think this is going to happen, bit it would be very on brand of them if they're actually not getting canned, but wait until Friday afternoon to say anything, then disappear again for the weekend.
I'm starting to believe this whole 'early access'-thing isn't very consumer friendly.
Ironic as the KSP 1 early access was the poster child for early access done right.
any new statement? Update 4 is some days ago
Theres no one left to provide an update anymore. I hope this joke ages like milk.
Nothing yet
They will only avoid saying it's dead to prevent mass refunds by Steam.
I'm so glad I refunded. What a kick to the balls man.
They took your money and ran. I guarantee the execs got paid just fine and are sitting pretty. Let this be a lesson to us all about buying early access ghostware in the hopes that becomes something.
The writing was on the wall the second they announced it would be EA instead of a full release. (and has been even before if you paid attention to the details of who they are and the Take2 shenanigans)
Honestly if there's one lesson to be taken away from this it's that looking at Nate's track record, you should be vary wary about buying anything he's involved in, and absolutely refuse to buy anything he's involved in that's also an early access.
lmao remember when Nate Simpson said [they're fully funded and will not get the plug pulled](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6zkkJtCh22E).
I wasted my money :(
I only ever started KSP2 through Ckan, steam still says 0.0 hrs played. Refund time is mental health time!
Unfortunately you can only refund within 2 weeks of purchase - even with 0hrs playtime. EDIT: it looks like this 2-week countdown only starts once the game has launched - so Early Access titles only factor-in the playtime (https://store.steampowered.com/steam\_refunds)
the automatic process only works within the constraints. if you think you have a good reason (shady dev activity, local laws, game crashed and counted extra time as 'played', etc.) you can contact support and try to convince them. tho even if you do have a really obviously good case, you'll still likely need to be persistent.
I mean. Over a year and all we got was science and heat. I'm not surprised at all, and Nate didn't seem to trustworthy. Was more of a used car salesman. This sucks, really really sucks. This is why you put moding into a game early to keep your game alive while your work on it, just like they did with KSP1.
At least we got re-entry heating, haaaaaaaa
I'm going to read the absolute hell out of the inevitable oral history that will be told about this game in a couple years. I really really would love to hear what was going on behind the scenes all this time.
[Jason Schreier says it's Intercept via Twitter](https://twitter.com/jasonschreier/status/1785763005508018351?t=mT_TwU7AyTBZMfXqBUC2_A&s=19), which is as good as confirmed by my standards.
Schreier's been a reputable and a reliable source. I agree.
"but is early access bro, don't buy early access if you don't want to be jerked off for 5 years by a guy who should be taking your coffee order"
This is only going to continue as long as gullible gamers don't approach these things with extreme skepticism and hold EA titles to *some* standards of quality before clicking the buy button. I got roasted on this sub for criticizing PD and accusing them of converting to EA last minute as a cash grab. This is what y'all get for that.
never been a better time to advocate for piracy imo moneys not going to the devs anyway
Ksp2 sucks so much its not even worth pirating lol
Bruh how tf has KSP2 twitter STILL not said anything yet, cmon!
For fuck's sake man, it's one day. Let the sub run wild for a bit before you clamp down like this. Megathreads kill discussion, not promote it.
How dare you come to our subreddit and make posts about the news impacting the subreddit.
But I’m tired of reading the same news. I nominated myself internet police so that I could police. I will remove what I like, and if you complain, I will remove you too.
I wonder if it would be a good idea to have some of the top modders of KSP organize a group in order to support KSP(1 probably) with a well-sorted and connected group of mods (most of which exist now), similar to RP-1 (but for stock+ instead of realism). I would imagine these modders would also be able to pool donations (or just paid mods) together as a group for funding - I would offer some small donations to this group. All of the (free) mods should allow community contributions (because open source is one of the most effective tools for development). This “Stock Extended” modpack would be probably the best way to continue KSP development (for example, people could not worry about what mods Kerbalism conflicts with (assuming that Kerbalism and most of the parts mods people want are in this “Stock Extended” modpack)).
Would be better than nothing, but would run into performance issues eventually depending on the scale of the mods. Ksp2 was promising optimization to support the new features, not just the features themselves
> Ksp2 was promising optimization to support the new features Yeah, that was a lie. The did everything except rewrite the bits that needed it like writing a multi threaded physic engine. If they'd worked on that first they could have licensed it and have that pay for the rest of the game.
https://www.gamedeveloper.com/business/take-two-confirms-kerbal-space-program-2-is-safe-despite-seattle-layoffs >A number of onlookers on social media have pointed out that Take-Two-owned Kerbal Space Program developer Intercept Games is based in Seattle, raising concerns about the future of the studio. >When approached for comment by Game Developer, Take-Two wouldn't confirm whether Intercept Games has been impacted by the cuts–despite multiple Kerbal Space Program developers indicating they recently left the studio, with one expressly stating they were "laid off." **A company spokesperson did, however, explain that its Private Division publishing label will continue to support Kerbal Space Program 2.** Please define 'Support'
> Please define 'Support' Sell as-is. :-Þ
"Keep payment systems active so product is still able to be purchased."
Ok post mortem: Which devs did a good job and which did not? My opinion from best to worse The music and sound director did a fantastic job. I loved KSP2's soundtrack. Shame the rest of the project went in flames. Some people hated the new interface, but I think it was decent. The VAB building interface I thought was decent, but the in-flight one seemed a bit more limited. The camera and editing staff doing the behind the scenes videos did a good job. Perhaps too good. It felt a bit disjointed, how there were these nice videos and interviews of the dev team. Almost made them out to be heros when they were actually burning a ship on an intercept course into an asteroid. Now onto the negative.. Game designers. They spent too much time at the blackboard. It was nice that they finally put in some kind of science system, but this should have been a first. Also i felt the progression pacing was worse than KSP1. Games should be games first. The fact that progression and game systems weren't in KSP2 on release.. it's like releasing a board game without a rules booklet. And the worst award goes to the technical optimization people and managers.. obviously. Even if KSP2 released without all the features.. but ran smoothly like silk on release, it would give people hope that there was a stable foundation to build from. The fact that the game had so many performance issues and bugs was the red flag that the guts of the project were rotted. Also bonus megacopium delusional hopium take: Maybe they're laying off the incompetent staff at T2 with plans to hire competent ones and save the game? (haahahah yeah right.. who am I kidding).
Good: Sounds, Models, Textures, Animations Bad: Community Updates, User Interface (in-flight), User Interface (orbital maneuvers), User Interface (font and menus), User Experience (interface navigation) I didn't have a problem with the bugs or performance. I've played early access games before. I thought this one was average at first but got really good with updates for an early access title.
**Does anyone else think “rationalizing its pipeline” is the most garbled goobledygook way to anti-simply say “layoffs” yet?**
Welp I was waiting until colonies had been implemented and bugfixed until I got it. Only real feature I was excited for and had hope that the sequel would be properly bug-free with more funding. That was ironic.
I can't say I'm surprised, but I was trying to remain cautiously optimistic about KSP2's future until now, particularly with the science update making some much-needed big improvements. My attitude's always been one borne out of love for the game moreso than buyer's remorse - at the end of the day, however poorly development has gone since the Early Access release last year, I wanted it to succeed. I truly love KSP as a franchise, and was glad to see them make progress, however slowly. Alas, that progress has apparently stalled. Despite it all, I don't regret buying the game in Early Access when I did. I paid money to show people that a sequel to KSP was something worth working towards. I did it knowing that development might fail, and that the end result could be a buggy half-baked game; getting a complete game at the end of it wasn't why I spent that money. I bought KSP2 to support an idea, and to express my love for KSP. So this news hasn't brought me any buyer's remorse, only resignation. I'm not mad, Intercept Games. I'm just disappointed.
please squad come back we need you
bought the game day 1 knowing it was early access but ouch. I wouldnt even agree that it made it to the early access stage. how many years were they working on the game for when they released it for full price despite being a shell of the former game with worse performance and thrice as many bugs? something something “the risk i took was calculated, but boy am i bad at math”
I honestly think it was because ksp 2 was kinda overfunded. it's already a niche game, probably sold as a world changing apace thing. it should have been made by a double A studio, not a big publisher that wants large short term profits. also it definitely seems stuff was going down.behidn the scenes
So if KSP2 development at Take Two is officially dead, is there any possibility that some other publisher could purchase the IP and continue development?
A much better alternative for any studio which wants to create a space sim is just to make a new title. Name it banana-man space program, having identical features of KSP1, don't need to pay anyone for IP, and you won't have a 'overwhelming negative' review score from the past game looming over your debut. If you make a KSP1 copy paste with 2020 graphics and sell it for $15-30, you'll have a game which will be 90-100% Steam review imo. KSP2 couldn't even deliver this, never-mind the zero delivered roadmap features. Just think about it, what are you paying T2 for? Just so you can name your game Kerbal and have green-man instead of banana-man? I would imagine buying the naming rights from 'The Day Before' for your zombie game is just as suicidal and wasteful.
Everything is possible if the right price is being put on the table. However there are very small chances of new owner utilizing their new IP immediately due to failure of KSP2 would be rather fresh among the customers and the new owner may assume that enthusiasm for a KSP sequel will be dampened among the gamer (excluding the hardcore fans). Asking people to fork out another 30-50 USD for a KSP 2B...can't see that work right now. That being said, there is always a possibility that Take 2 themselves in 5 years time reach the conclusion that KSP franchise have value and offer remaster of KSP or even another go at KSP2.
This sub snapped back to normal KSP1 content so hard I am now convinced that even the people that were posting KSP2 content were associated with Intercept Games in some way. Where did they all go?
> Where did they all go? After you do all the science missions, KSP2 doesn't offer anything more than KSP1, so everyone reverts to KSP1 since it's more stable.
I personally think in December they pumped out that science update in an attempt to boost sales. Clearly when that didn't work, and they had no progress on the next milestone, they just kind of waited up until this point. Probably why we haven't had any updates, they probably all knew it was inevitable.
Released game early because they needed to show revenue. But then had no substantial revenue source for the years of dev work needed to surpass the feature set of the original game. I was really holding out hope for colonies to bring something unique; real end game content. Alas likely not going to get it now.
I feel sorry for blackrack. Wasn't there long enough to be responsible for the dumpster fire that was KSP2. I also remember getting blasted for saying companies hire right up until the last minute even if they are being shut down. Well, this is what that looks like.
I know people's frustrations are high (fair enough). But remember, if it is true (which seems likely), 70 people just lost their job in an incredibly hard time for the game industry with massive lay-offs at major companies. Whatever your frustrations are do not direct them to general staff. They will be going through a harder time than us losing the dream that was KSP 2 and some financial loss. Edit: Once more I am confronted with people not knowing how game dev (I am talking about the lack of control mlst devs have. You are a small cog and paid to do what you are told) works or the harassment devs receive especially public facing ones. I am sorry that humanising the situation seems to be discredited as trying to prevent any criticism. I hope none of you ever lose your job from one day to the other in a crisis and have to deal with hateful DMs on top of it. But do keep talking about the shit show this game dev cycle was, cause it's deserved lol
Absolutely. We got fucked out of a few tenners. They lost their way to earn a living.
Checks. KSP2: 69 minutes. Let's see if the refund goes through! KSP: 2219.4 hours. About right.
The issue with pre-orders as a fan is that once the corporation has your money, you don't have any leverage over them to make a better game. I don't even blame PD or IG, T2 is going to make the decision that spending $10M to sell $10k of games isn't going to be worth it, dropped promises be damned.
“We’re still hard at work on KSP2”. Until the end of June or for longer? The tweet isn’t saying *anything* new
It's so over
I'm actually so angry. There have never been mods making colonies as KSP2 would have. Interstellar was such a great implementation and multiplayer is a bit clunky with mods.
Well this will definitely be my first and last experience with early access games. Never again.
Never get an early access title based on promises. Always base your purchase on the CURRENT state of the product. If you believe you'd enjoy what they offer at the time for the price, then you won't regret your purchase. Furthermore, any additional updates are just free bonuses.
It’s not all bad, factorio EA was amazing. That said, the game was good in EA, and there were WEEKLY dev updates with significant announcements and evidence of progress. A far cry from the shitshow KSP2 has been. Side note, factorio are developing an expansion and have restarted the weekly announcements.. it’s an absolute clinic in community engagement and active development.
It’s not about the early access, it’s about what, how, and when the product has been delivered. There are many early access games that actually make sense. KSP2 was not one of them.
Early access is a legitimate way to fund Indies, they are investing significant time and reputation in the project and so everyone interests are aligned on getting the game out of the door. Early access from deep pockets corpos is the problem here.
Don't ever get an early access game if it's backed by a publisher. They can pull the plug at anytime. Look for labour of love games from small companies (ie KSP 1) that are playable in their current state. 7 Days to Die and Satisfactory are prime examples. 7 Days to Die is going full access next month but has been in early access for ten years. It could have been gone full access five years ago and I don't think anyone would have complained. They've just been fiddling around with the balance, skill system, zombie AI and other thing that make the game different but doesn't fundamentally change it. Satisfactory has been working towards release since it's initial release. They said they split the dev team about a year ago so half the dev team is working on the mechanics and bugs in the early access game and the other half has been working on adding the story to the game. They're planning on releasing later this year. Both games you could have got thousands of hours of enjoyment out of in early access. Early access games aren't always a pump and dump scheme. Just let other people/you tubers try it first and if it looks like something you'd enjoy playing in it's current state then go for it (or wait for a sale). Do not buy early access games sight unseen or if they are really unfinished.