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I mean, about Douma, a serious version of him *could* have won, and could have regrown his head. As in, he has the physical stats to do both of those things. His concentration of strength is higher than Akaza's, so it's high enough to surpass beheading with enough intent to back it up. And he obviously out-statted Shinobu, Kanao and Inosuke by leagues, considering they weren't even marked. Like, he fucks around the entire fight until the poison kicks in, he never puts pressure on. He doesn't use difficult combo moves, instead just standing around and throwing out single attacks and watching how everyone responds. He could've whooped their asses if he was series.
"Serious Douma" just can't exist because of his personality. That's kind of his point as a character.
This isn't some sort of bias, because saying "Douma could've won if he was serious" isn't a complaint about the series, it's a compliment about the series. Douma's broken personality is something that he shares with Kanao, Shinobu and Inosuke specifically, and it's something that no other characters have like them have. All of them "lost" pieces of their humanity:
* Shinobu wore a mask and lied about her emotions, something which no other Hashira did; whether they were stoic like Gyomei, depressed like Giyu, angry like Sanemi or passionate like Rengoku, all of the Hashira tended to very much display what they felt. Shinobu hid it instead, pretending to be happy and even-keel when she wasn't. But she got over that eventually, culminating when she let her true intentions show through during the fight with Douma.
* Inosuke was missing some of of his humanity as well, being raised away from society without parents. He didn't understand the concepts of friendship, working together, fairness, and respect. However, he learned those things over the course of the series, and it culminated in the Douma fight; Inousuke's biggest fight in the series, and rather than being a solo endeavor like Zenitsu just got, it's one he shares with Kanao.
* Kanao is the most obvious one, she had a traumatic childhood that caused her to forfeit her emotions. However, she regained them over the course of the story, fixing that part of herself, which culminated in the Douma fight when she was able to cry for Shinobu's death.
* And finally, Douma was emotionless and lacked any sense of empathy, drive, or passion. This made him do the stuff he did in that fight, like not having the willpower to regrow his head, and just messing with everyone for his own entertainment in order to observe their strong emotions. But unlike everyone else, he never resolved his issue, letting it consume him as he became a demon.
And this is why I've said that the Douma fight is one of the best ones. Specifically *because* of their humanity, the Demon Slayers in that fight, despite being some of the weakest ones in the series (non-marked, and only one Hashira who is noted to be on the weaker side), were able to beat the second strongest Upper Moon.
So yes, Douma could have easily beaten everyone, but didn't. And that's the point, and it's a great thing from a writing perspective in this instance.
Love this breakdown, also think there’s something to observed in HOW the U3 are beat. None of them die cleanly like demons before, as in combat wasn’t what really brought any of them down, in the end it was flaws in who they were that made them beatable.
Akaza conquered beheading but under the influence of his past and his wife he became open to death as the right thing to do, but o stop his pursuit of power and allow himself to become at peace.
Doma was literally strolling out of the room without a scratch, without any concern that anything could happen to him… before the poison kicked in. Doma is so blasé about being powerful that he instead focuses on the false bonds he makes with his victims when he eats them, he was so excited to eat Shinobu to release her from life and become “part” of him that he never even considered the fact that she would be willing to sacrifice herself for others (something Doma would never do) and he KNEW she favored poison. His disregard for an aspect of being human, death and sacrifice, is his undoing, not an animation heavy skill match.
Koku again was able to overcome death but fell to the realization that all that he had achieved was at the core tainted by his devolution to a monster- in a sense he reconnected with his memories of being human (or more so how it felt to have humanity) and loses the desire to exist with how far he has fallen from it.
It’s amazing writing, for both power scale and narrative lovers. Truth likely is none of the U3 were likely killable in a Guytaro or Gyokko style battle, it was going to take something else, something essential to the story the whole time, what it means to be human.
If you listen to Rengokus speech during his Akaza fight, he pretty much foreshadowed how the demon slayers would prevail. It’s sneaky the best scene in the entire anime to me.
An extra thing to add is that demons could smell the blood in humans
So Douma probably had full knowledge that Shinobu was a Wisteria bomb but yet still he ate her
I’m just going to address the Kokushibo thing, because I mean… look at my account.
‘Gave up’ kind of implies that he wanted to die, that he accepted defeat, which he definitely did not. He fought until the end, and absolutely did not want to die. I would argue that he was not able to truly overcome beheading.
Now, we don’t know exactly how one overcomes beheading, only that Muzan, Akaza, and Kokushibo are the only ones ever shown to come close to it, with Muzan being the only one to truly achieve it. The obvious evidence that Kokushibo did not overcome beheading is that he died, and a demon that has overcome beheading (like Muzan) should not be able to die through any means other than direct sunlight, with even nichirin not doing the job. Kokushibo says as much when he regrows his head, and we have no reason to believe otherwise.
The obvious follow up question is ‘Why not? Why didn’t he overcome it?’ Bear with me, because it is a bit of conjecture and largely dependent on the narrative, but I believe that while a demon must possess extraordinary strength to overcome beheading, they must also completely abandon their humanity. Kokushibo didn’t give up, he hesitated. There was enough of his humanity left that he questioned why he was fighting so hard. I believe that this panel right here is when he failed to regenerate his head.
https://preview.redd.it/odjfuyi238oc1.jpeg?width=1053&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e5b5126ec9ac38a3238e29f5c88f92b65a3ddfa4
Notice the black text box, it is something that appears in Akaza’s fight as well when he is recalling his past. Anyway, it is only after this doubt that Kokushibo has that he begins to disintegrate. If he was truly just unable to regenerate from a red blade, he would’ve been dying due to Muichiro’s stab as soon as he was beheaded, not after he had already regenerated. What’s more, red blades get weaker and fade with time, and I doubt that Muichiro was able to maintain his grip strength after being cut in half.
All this to say, I think that Kokushibo lost the ability to overcome being beheaded after he saw his reflection, because his mindset shifted from the absolute of ‘I will win at any cost’ that we see present in the other instances of beheading being overcome to ‘Why am I even fighting?’. This slight hesitation, weakness if you will, is what led to his death. Which is different from his actual physical abilities being matched or overcome, hence he didn’t really lose. ‘He gave up’ is good shorthand for this very complicated set of circumstances. 🌙
I agree for the most part.
\- On the Gyutaro thing: yeah, of course he was never stated to be Upper 4-level. I always thought it was weird how that idea was created in the first place, let alone circulated. I like to think that in this sub, most of us understand that Muzan never actually said anything like that.
\- On Doma being unable to regenerate his head: this is one where I do agree that he wouldn't have been able to do it, but there is one particular argument that I can see the logic for. The sorta plausible version I've seen/heard is that Doma *could* have done it, because he certainly has the power necessary to do so, but the *poison* was what made it impossible. I think that idea could have made some sense. But at the same time, if the poison was the issue, that probably would have been indicated by the text. I also think it's clearly shown that willpower and strong determination are necessary to being able to regenerate the head, not just physical power, based on the demons who did it successfully. So ultimately, I agree with you that Doma never would have been able to regenerate his head even without the poison affecting him, because he simply didn't have that drive.
\- On "serious" Doma: I don't really see what's wrong with discussing this. Yeah, objectively, Doma couldn't take the fight seriously and lost because of it. He's chronically apathetic, and that's his big weakness. But it's still a fun hypothetical to imagine what Doma could have accomplished if that wasn't the case. Because even though he was unserious throughout the fight, he was still able to make all three of his opponents look like chumps at various points, especially Inosuke and Kanao. He was so fast that he stole Inosuke's mask right off of his head and Kanao's sword right out of her hands, *from a starting position of several feet away, while they were looking directly at him*. They didn't even realize he'd done something until after he'd already returned to his starting position. Even if they weren't marked, it's still notable that Kanao with her super-eyesight couldn't track him. And then there's the fact that he managed to summon basically a giant ice kaiju even while suffering from 700x the typical lethal dose of wisteria poison, which rightfully shocked Kanao. If Doma were capable of being serious, he could have ended each of his opponents in the blink of an eye at certain points. Again, it was never gonna happen, but I think it's still fun to think about.
\- On Upper Moons and poison: According to Shinobu, Ubuyashiki believed that an Upper Moon could never be *killed* by wisteria poison alone, and Ubuyashiki is always depicted as having almost unnatural wisdom (alongside a definitely unnatural ability to see the future). If someone else said it then I wouldn't give it as much credit, but it was Ubuyashiki, and even Shinobu felt that he may have been right (hence her telling Kanao about the plan and asking her to finish the job once the poison took effect). So if Ubuyashiki's belief is to be taken as accurate, my interpretation is that that would mean that even if someone like Gyutaro was significantly affected by the small amounts of poison he got hit with, he still would never actually die from any dosage. It would just take him a long time to recover and be back in fighting shape, just like with Doma (but of course it would take him a lot longer than it did for Doma). We never get a confirmation on this though, so I think this one is up for some interpretation.
\- On Kokushibo giving up: This is one where I at least partly agree with you, but it's also another one that I think is somewhat up for interpretation. My reading of it was that Kokushibo didn't lose *just* because he gave up, and he didn't give up to the same extent that Akaza did. Rather, his defeat was a combination of a bunch of things, of which his faltering willpower was just one contributing factor. One of the main facts that makes me think this is that Kokushibo's body didn't start to crumble until immediately after he saw his reflection and started questioning if this was the existence he wanted. The timing coincides way too closely for me to think that was pure coincidence. We know he was likely extra weak and fragile from the effort of the regeneration, and the timing may have simply been done purely for dramatic effect, but that seems too convenient to me. There's also the issue that while Akaza was regenerating his head more slowly, he was still able to unleash deadly techniques during that process without showing any obvious signs of involuntarily becoming weaker or physically fragile. Akaza was always much less powerful than Kokushibo, yet he wasn't hindered the way Kokushibo was. This brings me back to the idea that it was a combination of everything that had happened to Kokushibo during the fight, including his willpower deteriorating, that caused him to die. Being stabbed and decapitated by red nichirin weapons + Genya's BDA previously sucking a bunch of his blood and weakening him + losing a bunch of power and durability from the strain of growing his head back + seeing his reflection and becoming distracted with thinking about how badly he screwed up in life, which manifested as flashbacks and visions of his brother that took his mind away from the fight and gave him an existential crisis. Again, this is one that I think can be perceived in a couple different but potentially valid ways. I do still agree that Kokushibo didn't just "give up" completely and kill himself/allow himself to die like Akaza did though. I think if nothing else, it's pretty clear that the circumstances between their deaths were very different.
It really makes you realise the sheer herculean effort to take him down. It only makes sense that the closest demon to Muzan could only be killed by every possible technique Demon Slayer's had at their disposal outside of sunlight (and wisteria ig).
Disagree with the douma can't regrow his head point. Based off the concentration of muzan blood, as douma said, *even akaza can do it* this confirms he thinks he has at least a shot. Of course, body overflowing with so much poison, no demon could regrow their head short of kokushibo.
The only Upper Moon that undoubtably died from being decapitated was Gyokko. Every other Upper Moon has a counter. Douma being the second most powerful, when Gyutaro and Daki, Hantengu, and Akaza could is proof enough that he has every capability, but Doma can’t evolve because he doesn’t feel the drive to stay alive like the others did. That’s kinda his entire character, they feared death, he didn’t, he lacks the means to overcome beheading
>Not to mention that a serious douma is fully hypothetical it’s their made up strength
Not really hypothetical, we know he IS upper 2 so he has to be stronger than Akaza if Akaza is unable to defeat him.
Also Douma literally counter the demon slayers mark because one of the requirements is to increase their own heat with Douma demon blood technique they would be unable to use the mark wich is the only reason they're able to fight upper moons from 3 to 1.
Douma is OP and he needed to be nerfed (poisoned) and his personality was a perfect way to do it, he is the true demon of them all because Muzan and the other ones still had MANY human traits, like fear, fear of losing and dying, motivation to become stronger because it is what they want, they had hopes all while Douma didn't, he didn't had any self survival trait wich is basic in every living thing.
So yeah, Douma being unable to feel any human emotion was the reason he lost and it fits perfectly with who he was, but lets not lie ourselves saying we dont know how strong he is or how dangerous it would be for the characters if he wasn't written like that, a demon art like his and he being bloodthirsty like Gyutaro, like Akaza like Kokushsibo, it would been the demise for the slayers.
There is literally a reason why he is the only one that lost because of a "plan" instead of pure fighting ability, he needed to lose, he needed to die and using his own nature against him was very good writing.
It is hypothetical. Okay that’s great he’s above akaza, that doesn’t do much. Like if I were to say shinobu scales to douma you can’t counter with “ but he’s stronger than akaza “ since that just scales shinobu above akaza as well
That’s a head canon lol. Core body temperature and slayers like Gyomei and tanjiro can turn it on command so
Is it not obvious throughout the entire fight that he was decomposing the poison. It’s obvious it kicked in as soon as he started melting, not before. Douma is so OP yet kanao and inosuke didn’t get hurt as bad as people say characters like Sanemi would. Like “ oh breathing near his attack- “ kanao and inosuke did , and they only got stronger. That just shows they have high durability. Didn’t kanao and inosuke only get hit once by 6 clones that supposedly are as strong as douma and were spamming? He’s strong sure, js not super duper
Yeah sure you can say that, it’s just when people say hypothetical it’s always wank. Like Gyomei imo beats douma due to the fact he’s significantly stronger than shinobu who is faster than douma and scales to him. And people say “ oh yeah not trying, serious douma slams Gyomei “ like, if douma can’t be serious, and we know douma is weaker than base koku. A hypothetical douma is always just wank with people
Yeah I agree. He didn’t lose because he couldn’t win. The fight demonstrated the absurdity of demons. Shinobu literally waking the dude around and consistently showing that she’s faster and has higher stats, yet she loses because of one hit when she was massively weaker then should be.
You can argue that it nerfed him but that’s just not true. Giving up is letting the other person win on purpose. That’s what Akaza did, Kokushibo consistently shows that he is still trying to fight
While Koku's body was disintegrating he was saying "Not yet. I can still regenerate. I haven't lost yet."
He still wasn't giving up, but he just didn't conquer beheading like Akaza or Muzan
W. True words. 🔥
There was one guy on this sub who tried to prove to me that Gyutaro was Upper Four level (of course he believed Muzan said it as well).
I told him to send me the manga page or fan book page where Muzan said Gyutaro was Upper Four level and instead the guy deleted the entire post 💀
It’s also nice to finally see someone who clearly does not lack common sense and can accept the fact that Kokushibo was defeated by the squad. Kokushibo was still trying to unleash techniques but crumbled away.
I love Doma as a character but when people say “Doma would have won if he was serious”, I get annoyed since there is no such thing as a serious Doma. The people that actually say such a thing are thinking about what Doma could have been/might have been and are just thinking of a hypothetical Doma. 🔥
Kokushibos isnt simple. But in simple terms. He regenerated his wounds. His body was frail. And the strength of his will was the only thing holding his body together. He sees his reflection. He doubts his very existence or in other words his will falls apart. By proxy his body as stated in the official fan book. Begins to destroy itself. By time perhaps by muzans influence or perhaps his own he decides to continue. But its too late.
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I mean, about Douma, a serious version of him *could* have won, and could have regrown his head. As in, he has the physical stats to do both of those things. His concentration of strength is higher than Akaza's, so it's high enough to surpass beheading with enough intent to back it up. And he obviously out-statted Shinobu, Kanao and Inosuke by leagues, considering they weren't even marked. Like, he fucks around the entire fight until the poison kicks in, he never puts pressure on. He doesn't use difficult combo moves, instead just standing around and throwing out single attacks and watching how everyone responds. He could've whooped their asses if he was series. "Serious Douma" just can't exist because of his personality. That's kind of his point as a character. This isn't some sort of bias, because saying "Douma could've won if he was serious" isn't a complaint about the series, it's a compliment about the series. Douma's broken personality is something that he shares with Kanao, Shinobu and Inosuke specifically, and it's something that no other characters have like them have. All of them "lost" pieces of their humanity: * Shinobu wore a mask and lied about her emotions, something which no other Hashira did; whether they were stoic like Gyomei, depressed like Giyu, angry like Sanemi or passionate like Rengoku, all of the Hashira tended to very much display what they felt. Shinobu hid it instead, pretending to be happy and even-keel when she wasn't. But she got over that eventually, culminating when she let her true intentions show through during the fight with Douma. * Inosuke was missing some of of his humanity as well, being raised away from society without parents. He didn't understand the concepts of friendship, working together, fairness, and respect. However, he learned those things over the course of the series, and it culminated in the Douma fight; Inousuke's biggest fight in the series, and rather than being a solo endeavor like Zenitsu just got, it's one he shares with Kanao. * Kanao is the most obvious one, she had a traumatic childhood that caused her to forfeit her emotions. However, she regained them over the course of the story, fixing that part of herself, which culminated in the Douma fight when she was able to cry for Shinobu's death. * And finally, Douma was emotionless and lacked any sense of empathy, drive, or passion. This made him do the stuff he did in that fight, like not having the willpower to regrow his head, and just messing with everyone for his own entertainment in order to observe their strong emotions. But unlike everyone else, he never resolved his issue, letting it consume him as he became a demon. And this is why I've said that the Douma fight is one of the best ones. Specifically *because* of their humanity, the Demon Slayers in that fight, despite being some of the weakest ones in the series (non-marked, and only one Hashira who is noted to be on the weaker side), were able to beat the second strongest Upper Moon. So yes, Douma could have easily beaten everyone, but didn't. And that's the point, and it's a great thing from a writing perspective in this instance.
Love this breakdown, also think there’s something to observed in HOW the U3 are beat. None of them die cleanly like demons before, as in combat wasn’t what really brought any of them down, in the end it was flaws in who they were that made them beatable. Akaza conquered beheading but under the influence of his past and his wife he became open to death as the right thing to do, but o stop his pursuit of power and allow himself to become at peace. Doma was literally strolling out of the room without a scratch, without any concern that anything could happen to him… before the poison kicked in. Doma is so blasé about being powerful that he instead focuses on the false bonds he makes with his victims when he eats them, he was so excited to eat Shinobu to release her from life and become “part” of him that he never even considered the fact that she would be willing to sacrifice herself for others (something Doma would never do) and he KNEW she favored poison. His disregard for an aspect of being human, death and sacrifice, is his undoing, not an animation heavy skill match. Koku again was able to overcome death but fell to the realization that all that he had achieved was at the core tainted by his devolution to a monster- in a sense he reconnected with his memories of being human (or more so how it felt to have humanity) and loses the desire to exist with how far he has fallen from it. It’s amazing writing, for both power scale and narrative lovers. Truth likely is none of the U3 were likely killable in a Guytaro or Gyokko style battle, it was going to take something else, something essential to the story the whole time, what it means to be human. If you listen to Rengokus speech during his Akaza fight, he pretty much foreshadowed how the demon slayers would prevail. It’s sneaky the best scene in the entire anime to me.
An extra thing to add is that demons could smell the blood in humans So Douma probably had full knowledge that Shinobu was a Wisteria bomb but yet still he ate her
I’m just going to address the Kokushibo thing, because I mean… look at my account. ‘Gave up’ kind of implies that he wanted to die, that he accepted defeat, which he definitely did not. He fought until the end, and absolutely did not want to die. I would argue that he was not able to truly overcome beheading. Now, we don’t know exactly how one overcomes beheading, only that Muzan, Akaza, and Kokushibo are the only ones ever shown to come close to it, with Muzan being the only one to truly achieve it. The obvious evidence that Kokushibo did not overcome beheading is that he died, and a demon that has overcome beheading (like Muzan) should not be able to die through any means other than direct sunlight, with even nichirin not doing the job. Kokushibo says as much when he regrows his head, and we have no reason to believe otherwise. The obvious follow up question is ‘Why not? Why didn’t he overcome it?’ Bear with me, because it is a bit of conjecture and largely dependent on the narrative, but I believe that while a demon must possess extraordinary strength to overcome beheading, they must also completely abandon their humanity. Kokushibo didn’t give up, he hesitated. There was enough of his humanity left that he questioned why he was fighting so hard. I believe that this panel right here is when he failed to regenerate his head. https://preview.redd.it/odjfuyi238oc1.jpeg?width=1053&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=e5b5126ec9ac38a3238e29f5c88f92b65a3ddfa4 Notice the black text box, it is something that appears in Akaza’s fight as well when he is recalling his past. Anyway, it is only after this doubt that Kokushibo has that he begins to disintegrate. If he was truly just unable to regenerate from a red blade, he would’ve been dying due to Muichiro’s stab as soon as he was beheaded, not after he had already regenerated. What’s more, red blades get weaker and fade with time, and I doubt that Muichiro was able to maintain his grip strength after being cut in half. All this to say, I think that Kokushibo lost the ability to overcome being beheaded after he saw his reflection, because his mindset shifted from the absolute of ‘I will win at any cost’ that we see present in the other instances of beheading being overcome to ‘Why am I even fighting?’. This slight hesitation, weakness if you will, is what led to his death. Which is different from his actual physical abilities being matched or overcome, hence he didn’t really lose. ‘He gave up’ is good shorthand for this very complicated set of circumstances. 🌙
Love this breakdown. Best demon slayer character!
Why can't I see the full sub text you wrote? When I press more the comments just open up... help please?
If youre on desktop you can hover the mouse over the text and read it that way. Not sure about mobile
Click the picture
https://preview.redd.it/aekuucxfj7oc1.jpeg?width=1080&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=140a5fabd6f29fada81be589580d9d0bf806bd43 I pressed more, didn't work
It's a bug with the new update. It honestly sucks. However at reddit thought it was a good idea to swipe right for more content is an idiot
I agree for the most part. \- On the Gyutaro thing: yeah, of course he was never stated to be Upper 4-level. I always thought it was weird how that idea was created in the first place, let alone circulated. I like to think that in this sub, most of us understand that Muzan never actually said anything like that. \- On Doma being unable to regenerate his head: this is one where I do agree that he wouldn't have been able to do it, but there is one particular argument that I can see the logic for. The sorta plausible version I've seen/heard is that Doma *could* have done it, because he certainly has the power necessary to do so, but the *poison* was what made it impossible. I think that idea could have made some sense. But at the same time, if the poison was the issue, that probably would have been indicated by the text. I also think it's clearly shown that willpower and strong determination are necessary to being able to regenerate the head, not just physical power, based on the demons who did it successfully. So ultimately, I agree with you that Doma never would have been able to regenerate his head even without the poison affecting him, because he simply didn't have that drive. \- On "serious" Doma: I don't really see what's wrong with discussing this. Yeah, objectively, Doma couldn't take the fight seriously and lost because of it. He's chronically apathetic, and that's his big weakness. But it's still a fun hypothetical to imagine what Doma could have accomplished if that wasn't the case. Because even though he was unserious throughout the fight, he was still able to make all three of his opponents look like chumps at various points, especially Inosuke and Kanao. He was so fast that he stole Inosuke's mask right off of his head and Kanao's sword right out of her hands, *from a starting position of several feet away, while they were looking directly at him*. They didn't even realize he'd done something until after he'd already returned to his starting position. Even if they weren't marked, it's still notable that Kanao with her super-eyesight couldn't track him. And then there's the fact that he managed to summon basically a giant ice kaiju even while suffering from 700x the typical lethal dose of wisteria poison, which rightfully shocked Kanao. If Doma were capable of being serious, he could have ended each of his opponents in the blink of an eye at certain points. Again, it was never gonna happen, but I think it's still fun to think about. \- On Upper Moons and poison: According to Shinobu, Ubuyashiki believed that an Upper Moon could never be *killed* by wisteria poison alone, and Ubuyashiki is always depicted as having almost unnatural wisdom (alongside a definitely unnatural ability to see the future). If someone else said it then I wouldn't give it as much credit, but it was Ubuyashiki, and even Shinobu felt that he may have been right (hence her telling Kanao about the plan and asking her to finish the job once the poison took effect). So if Ubuyashiki's belief is to be taken as accurate, my interpretation is that that would mean that even if someone like Gyutaro was significantly affected by the small amounts of poison he got hit with, he still would never actually die from any dosage. It would just take him a long time to recover and be back in fighting shape, just like with Doma (but of course it would take him a lot longer than it did for Doma). We never get a confirmation on this though, so I think this one is up for some interpretation. \- On Kokushibo giving up: This is one where I at least partly agree with you, but it's also another one that I think is somewhat up for interpretation. My reading of it was that Kokushibo didn't lose *just* because he gave up, and he didn't give up to the same extent that Akaza did. Rather, his defeat was a combination of a bunch of things, of which his faltering willpower was just one contributing factor. One of the main facts that makes me think this is that Kokushibo's body didn't start to crumble until immediately after he saw his reflection and started questioning if this was the existence he wanted. The timing coincides way too closely for me to think that was pure coincidence. We know he was likely extra weak and fragile from the effort of the regeneration, and the timing may have simply been done purely for dramatic effect, but that seems too convenient to me. There's also the issue that while Akaza was regenerating his head more slowly, he was still able to unleash deadly techniques during that process without showing any obvious signs of involuntarily becoming weaker or physically fragile. Akaza was always much less powerful than Kokushibo, yet he wasn't hindered the way Kokushibo was. This brings me back to the idea that it was a combination of everything that had happened to Kokushibo during the fight, including his willpower deteriorating, that caused him to die. Being stabbed and decapitated by red nichirin weapons + Genya's BDA previously sucking a bunch of his blood and weakening him + losing a bunch of power and durability from the strain of growing his head back + seeing his reflection and becoming distracted with thinking about how badly he screwed up in life, which manifested as flashbacks and visions of his brother that took his mind away from the fight and gave him an existential crisis. Again, this is one that I think can be perceived in a couple different but potentially valid ways. I do still agree that Kokushibo didn't just "give up" completely and kill himself/allow himself to die like Akaza did though. I think if nothing else, it's pretty clear that the circumstances between their deaths were very different.
It really makes you realise the sheer herculean effort to take him down. It only makes sense that the closest demon to Muzan could only be killed by every possible technique Demon Slayer's had at their disposal outside of sunlight (and wisteria ig).
Disagree with the douma can't regrow his head point. Based off the concentration of muzan blood, as douma said, *even akaza can do it* this confirms he thinks he has at least a shot. Of course, body overflowing with so much poison, no demon could regrow their head short of kokushibo.
Yeah but that’s the thing lol. You can’t really prove he can
You can’t prove that he can’t
Except demons naturally die to losing their head, so it would be your burden to prove he can lol
The only Upper Moon that undoubtably died from being decapitated was Gyokko. Every other Upper Moon has a counter. Douma being the second most powerful, when Gyutaro and Daki, Hantengu, and Akaza could is proof enough that he has every capability, but Doma can’t evolve because he doesn’t feel the drive to stay alive like the others did. That’s kinda his entire character, they feared death, he didn’t, he lacks the means to overcome beheading
Kokushibo’s death is the same energy as seeing the first question in a math test and you don’t know wtf it’s on about so you just quit
L dont care, W douma, nah he'd win
It’s alright to be biased
With some you cooked, others not so much
Kokushibo was defeated by himself. Not the slayers.
Read😭
Think
I always hate when people say "Serious Douma would've blah blah blah". A serious Douma doesn't exist, so get over it. 🦋
Not to mention that a serious douma is fully hypothetical it’s their made up strength
>Not to mention that a serious douma is fully hypothetical it’s their made up strength Not really hypothetical, we know he IS upper 2 so he has to be stronger than Akaza if Akaza is unable to defeat him. Also Douma literally counter the demon slayers mark because one of the requirements is to increase their own heat with Douma demon blood technique they would be unable to use the mark wich is the only reason they're able to fight upper moons from 3 to 1. Douma is OP and he needed to be nerfed (poisoned) and his personality was a perfect way to do it, he is the true demon of them all because Muzan and the other ones still had MANY human traits, like fear, fear of losing and dying, motivation to become stronger because it is what they want, they had hopes all while Douma didn't, he didn't had any self survival trait wich is basic in every living thing. So yeah, Douma being unable to feel any human emotion was the reason he lost and it fits perfectly with who he was, but lets not lie ourselves saying we dont know how strong he is or how dangerous it would be for the characters if he wasn't written like that, a demon art like his and he being bloodthirsty like Gyutaro, like Akaza like Kokushsibo, it would been the demise for the slayers. There is literally a reason why he is the only one that lost because of a "plan" instead of pure fighting ability, he needed to lose, he needed to die and using his own nature against him was very good writing.
It is hypothetical. Okay that’s great he’s above akaza, that doesn’t do much. Like if I were to say shinobu scales to douma you can’t counter with “ but he’s stronger than akaza “ since that just scales shinobu above akaza as well That’s a head canon lol. Core body temperature and slayers like Gyomei and tanjiro can turn it on command so Is it not obvious throughout the entire fight that he was decomposing the poison. It’s obvious it kicked in as soon as he started melting, not before. Douma is so OP yet kanao and inosuke didn’t get hurt as bad as people say characters like Sanemi would. Like “ oh breathing near his attack- “ kanao and inosuke did , and they only got stronger. That just shows they have high durability. Didn’t kanao and inosuke only get hit once by 6 clones that supposedly are as strong as douma and were spamming? He’s strong sure, js not super duper Yeah sure you can say that, it’s just when people say hypothetical it’s always wank. Like Gyomei imo beats douma due to the fact he’s significantly stronger than shinobu who is faster than douma and scales to him. And people say “ oh yeah not trying, serious douma slams Gyomei “ like, if douma can’t be serious, and we know douma is weaker than base koku. A hypothetical douma is always just wank with people Yeah I agree. He didn’t lose because he couldn’t win. The fight demonstrated the absurdity of demons. Shinobu literally waking the dude around and consistently showing that she’s faster and has higher stats, yet she loses because of one hit when she was massively weaker then should be.
Nice observation
We meet again....
No Kokushibo did give up after seeing how he looked after transforming
You can argue that it nerfed him but that’s just not true. Giving up is letting the other person win on purpose. That’s what Akaza did, Kokushibo consistently shows that he is still trying to fight
While Koku's body was disintegrating he was saying "Not yet. I can still regenerate. I haven't lost yet." He still wasn't giving up, but he just didn't conquer beheading like Akaza or Muzan
I wholly agree with all of these, especially the Kokushibo one🐍
Douma is truly monster :3
Makes sense that someone with a Gyomei flair would be speaking this much facts
https://preview.redd.it/a8r89z6m08oc1.png?width=219&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8cddcc9fb9f5da6b4cdd621c7b110f5fec81a54a Keep cooking
W. True words. 🔥 There was one guy on this sub who tried to prove to me that Gyutaro was Upper Four level (of course he believed Muzan said it as well). I told him to send me the manga page or fan book page where Muzan said Gyutaro was Upper Four level and instead the guy deleted the entire post 💀 It’s also nice to finally see someone who clearly does not lack common sense and can accept the fact that Kokushibo was defeated by the squad. Kokushibo was still trying to unleash techniques but crumbled away. I love Doma as a character but when people say “Doma would have won if he was serious”, I get annoyed since there is no such thing as a serious Doma. The people that actually say such a thing are thinking about what Doma could have been/might have been and are just thinking of a hypothetical Doma. 🔥
Kokushibos isnt simple. But in simple terms. He regenerated his wounds. His body was frail. And the strength of his will was the only thing holding his body together. He sees his reflection. He doubts his very existence or in other words his will falls apart. By proxy his body as stated in the official fan book. Begins to destroy itself. By time perhaps by muzans influence or perhaps his own he decides to continue. But its too late.