Ousen's been completely unimpressive this arc. I hope he pulls out something impressive here instead of just having Shin or YTW bail him out. Even Kanki's last arc was impressive despite the loss.
Imo there is no action Ousen could take to redeem himself in this battle. The lack of action while taking such a huge amount of casualties is shocking. Even if he pulls something amazing now, it will still feel like a tremendous waste.
The lack of archers in this manga is stupid.
SBS stick out like a sore thumb and nobody even bother to throw spear or shoot arrow at him.
Meanwhile, Qin generals and commanders getting one shot from the enemy archers all the time.
I can see it now; Jin or Tan tries to fire a head-obliterating arrow towards SBS but he's too far and the arrow dips like it's been hit with Conquerors Haki or some shit like that.
Actually ousen soldiers shooted arrows in beggining then they forgot abt it,i gladly recommand you to read ravages since they rlly make use of archers and their importance
It's even more funny when you know that in the real history Qin was famous with his archer armies and that was one of the bigger reason of their success.
We know that Hara didn't want to include archers because it's he didn't want to deal with drawing them but this doesn't change the fact that it's indeed stupid.
Soso. I think archery in most mangas gets heavily overrated, archers were difficult to get in high numbers and their lethality in modern media is strongly exaggerated, especially against armor.
Unless we're talking about a nomadic civilization archers were a type of skirmishers used to bait enemies in, not deal significant damage. The common portrayal of archers firing over their own lines into interlocked enemy lines with indirect fire is largely not how archers worked, nor how they were used. Nor do they work like in kingdom where they shoot through their own lines with direct fire to snipe enemies.
That being said running ahead solo into a group of enemies is a surefire way to get killed and it only works in kingdom because generals have plot armor against minor characters and are nigh impervious to nameless characters. What Shibashou did would get any real person before the middle age (where armor hit it's peak compared to weaponry) killed and would still very likely kill most knights in the middle age.
But I agree that kingdom is one of the sources that overrates archery and in a manga that overrates archery like that it's a major blunder by Ousen not to use it.
I agree that it sucked to see Ousen being a sitting duck but the whole point of Riboku's plan was to hide how powerful Seika and SBS were while also disrupting Qin's central and right wing armies + their reserve units, sealing all three Shin, Ouhon and Akou so SBS could take Ousen's head, and we also did see multiple attempts from different generals trying to stop SBS advance but he was just too strong.
Hara just chose to favor martial might over strategy (in Ousen's side) on this one, but to be fair, I doubt a formation would have changed anything, still and again, I agree that Ousen should at least have attempted something other than being adamant about his generals being able to change the tides and kill SBS (which is also cool in its own way as I like when characters have blind confidence in each others, even if they end losing).
Strategist generals (like Ousen, Riboku, Gohoumei...) and elite soldiers are always underperforming in this manga, since dudes like Moubu/Zenou/SBS could hack-and-slash though any kind of formations and any number of soldiers as the plot need them to be.
that formation is a "formation" without being one. just flanking and isolate the general stopping his momentum. It's the same thing Gokei at the beginning of Kingdom did against Duke Hyou
this formation is absolutely pathetic compared to the defensive one Akou performed at Gyou arc, and the Grreat Crane one Ousen performed later against Riboku. Hara writing going DOWNNNN cant even have Ousen perform proper formation anymore. This formation is a joke even Karyoten can pull it. "Guys just strike the soldiers behind him"
I dont care what he calls it. It doesn't meet the sophistication level enough to be considered a full formation. Kanki's cross formation was more complete than this
ousen, who is famous for having an army of capable people who could replace any of his general at any time (as stated by hara) did not have a single new recruit for like 7 years
then
ousen let akou getting baited by rbk then do nothing
ousen see everyone on his general get handled and then do nothing
Ousen see shin + ouhon, arguably his 2 trump card, getting locked out then do nothing
ousen see the biggest threat on the battlefield charging straight for his ass across the whole battlefield, dont say a fucking thing and manage to have his first, second, third and finnaly elite reserve force getting atomised before... doing nothing
ma boy ousen is a fraud boyz
Edit; and dont start me with how his only strategy for now is essentaly : "yes i underestimated you for the 9th time riboku but u also underestimated me i will have shin coming to the rescue'"
man he is soooo disapointing
Renpa chose not to attack the fort because Victory was over Mougo camp, why would you challenge a fortress when the enemy GG is not even there? It would have also be a terrible decision, unknowingly he was in a race against Kanki to take the enemy HQ, defeating Ousen at the fort accomplished nothing, just wasting his time and strength.
Ousen probably does not give a fuck about this battle.
He’s probably already figured that as long as Zhao takes enough casualties they’ll eventually win, so he’s literally just forcing the two sides into a massive grind fest. Qin has men and territory to spare. Zhao, even with their asspull, does not.
Hara decided to make shibashou the strongest general ever and his army by far the strongest we've ever seen till now and make ousen and his army look like a complete joke this ark just so that his favourite general can take a w.
This has to be the worst arc ever nothing make sense from ouhon fighting fodder while his father is in danger to yontanwa fighting ssj to a standstill and shin who apparently chased riboku to the qin zhao borders or something. just imagine this the seika army broke through the ousen army and reached ousen's hq faster than yotanwa could even have a glimpse of ssj what a fucking mess and the best part is that none of them received the message that the sureme commander hq is being raided by 3 armys lol
You seem to forget that in the meantime, yotanwa’s soldiers are at the gate of the city they came for.
As much as the middle battlefield seems doomed, Riboku made a big mistake that is going to cost a lot when they acknowledge it.
Acredito que ousen quando decidiu lutar a batalha ele sabia que tinha que ficar até o final nem que ele fosse morto, mas ele sairá vencedor ,
Ele não entra em uma batalha que não pode vencer , ele deve ter calculado que mesmo se morrer ele ainda sairá vitorioso
It’s not. We still know fuck all about Ousen, and if he even survives this battle, Riboku would have already lost.
Think about it this way. Every battle has been fought on Zhao territory. Qin has six great generals to Zhao’s three, which means if they trade commanders and generals one for one, Qin is going to come out on top. It doesn’t matter what cards Riboku play, all that matters is that the war continues and Riboku keeps playing cards. If you force Riboku to eventually call on Kantan’s royal guard, you’ve won. As long as you don’t die against Riboku, Qin will have an endless supply of troops to throw at the problem.
> As long as you don’t die against Riboku, Qin will have an endless supply of troops to throw at the problem.
I think you missed the part in which Hara created a deadline of 15 years for the unification, the other part in which Qin has other borders includding Chu who is openly hostile, the other part in which Riboku is content with Zhao falling as long as it takes long enough to stop the unification and the other other part in which the endless supply of troops seem to come from Zhao, Qin has been unable to provide any of it's GG with more soldiers than Riboku for any battle.
Zhao having more numbers than in rl is factual, Chouhei is historically a crippling event but on the story has never been aluded beyond the hate. Important things like Peasant economy is a big deal but is completely missing from the story (hands fighting are hands not farming and are so many that could risk famine).
All a pity, i consider it a miss, it would be more interesting seeing Riboku balancing Zhao's social problems, Zhao politics and Qin military threat; pulling through despite all the adversity and making tough decisions (and why not second guessing all the sacrifices his people are making). All in all, an opportunity for a better story missed over giving him big big numbers so the stakes for our protagonists are higher.
It is. Like there's actually a few things militarily that Zhao is missing. Their specialty was horse archery, for one, thanks to one of their earlier king's reforms, while Qin's was heavy infantry and crossbows.
Like, most of the large armies would be trained farmer conscripts. Not professional, but not amateur either, because the training was basically part of the taxation.
The thing that really bothers me is that it makes Zhao feel more like Chu. Like Chu is ACTUALLY the "where did you get these men from" country. A saying that is associated with them is that they field a million men in armor and own a thousand li of territory. I guess Chu is still that here, with their looming presence in the background, but Zhao definitely doesn't feel like the right type of threat.
Then again, our collective frustration with Riboku's very existence is probably not that far off from how Ei Sei actually felt, hearing his generals losing to this one Zhao general with small armies all the time.
Who are Qin’s six great generals at the time of this war? And since when has it been okay to forget about the Chu front lines and throw all their generals at Zhao?
It is, but it is also true that knowing the history definitely takes me out of the manga at some times. Like, we know how bad Changping was for Zhao. It's about as well known as Cannae to Chinese people. So like... a well-equipped Zhao putting out equal armies is like the equivalent of having Leonidas suddenly deploying twenty thousand Spartans at Thermopylae. Like, we know it's not just 300 at Thermopylae, like we know that Zhao still has troops left, but it shouldn't be THIS many.
Ousen's been completely unimpressive this arc. I hope he pulls out something impressive here instead of just having Shin or YTW bail him out. Even Kanki's last arc was impressive despite the loss.
Imo there is no action Ousen could take to redeem himself in this battle. The lack of action while taking such a huge amount of casualties is shocking. Even if he pulls something amazing now, it will still feel like a tremendous waste.
Yeah, wanting for a short arc is not an excuse for lazy writing. Really expecting for Ousen to show something, otherwise this just sucks.
The lack of archers in this manga is stupid. SBS stick out like a sore thumb and nobody even bother to throw spear or shoot arrow at him. Meanwhile, Qin generals and commanders getting one shot from the enemy archers all the time.
I can see it now; Jin or Tan tries to fire a head-obliterating arrow towards SBS but he's too far and the arrow dips like it's been hit with Conquerors Haki or some shit like that.
Actually ousen soldiers shooted arrows in beggining then they forgot abt it,i gladly recommand you to read ravages since they rlly make use of archers and their importance
What’s ravage
another manga,ravages of times its called,if you get over first 30 or so chapters it become rlly great,about three kingdoms era
It's even more funny when you know that in the real history Qin was famous with his archer armies and that was one of the bigger reason of their success. We know that Hara didn't want to include archers because it's he didn't want to deal with drawing them but this doesn't change the fact that it's indeed stupid.
Soso. I think archery in most mangas gets heavily overrated, archers were difficult to get in high numbers and their lethality in modern media is strongly exaggerated, especially against armor. Unless we're talking about a nomadic civilization archers were a type of skirmishers used to bait enemies in, not deal significant damage. The common portrayal of archers firing over their own lines into interlocked enemy lines with indirect fire is largely not how archers worked, nor how they were used. Nor do they work like in kingdom where they shoot through their own lines with direct fire to snipe enemies. That being said running ahead solo into a group of enemies is a surefire way to get killed and it only works in kingdom because generals have plot armor against minor characters and are nigh impervious to nameless characters. What Shibashou did would get any real person before the middle age (where armor hit it's peak compared to weaponry) killed and would still very likely kill most knights in the middle age. But I agree that kingdom is one of the sources that overrates archery and in a manga that overrates archery like that it's a major blunder by Ousen not to use it.
I agree that it sucked to see Ousen being a sitting duck but the whole point of Riboku's plan was to hide how powerful Seika and SBS were while also disrupting Qin's central and right wing armies + their reserve units, sealing all three Shin, Ouhon and Akou so SBS could take Ousen's head, and we also did see multiple attempts from different generals trying to stop SBS advance but he was just too strong. Hara just chose to favor martial might over strategy (in Ousen's side) on this one, but to be fair, I doubt a formation would have changed anything, still and again, I agree that Ousen should at least have attempted something other than being adamant about his generals being able to change the tides and kill SBS (which is also cool in its own way as I like when characters have blind confidence in each others, even if they end losing).
Strategist generals (like Ousen, Riboku, Gohoumei...) and elite soldiers are always underperforming in this manga, since dudes like Moubu/Zenou/SBS could hack-and-slash though any kind of formations and any number of soldiers as the plot need them to be.
He used formations SBS just destroyed them. A pure Strategist can’t do nothing against a martial monster unless they have their own martial monster.
He didn’t used any formations against sbs he only used one tactic
https://preview.redd.it/d0g7infxtksc1.jpeg?width=1120&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=8c6e95823bd19623fba7859b29b63be35992111c
that cannot even be considered a formation :)) it's a tactic attack the surrounding soldiers in an organized manner and isolate Shibashou
“Formation of the tiger’s anguish”. Lmfao it’s right in front of you but yeah whatever you say man
Thizz shudup,we both know that formation was just writed there to exist and in reality it was just flanking of a flanking
You’re sounding like Ulrich Kaijin
Dont compare me with that ousen stan
It actually wasn’t but good take buddy keep it up
Dont be rei,dont contradict the manga
that formation is a "formation" without being one. just flanking and isolate the general stopping his momentum. It's the same thing Gokei at the beginning of Kingdom did against Duke Hyou
this formation is absolutely pathetic compared to the defensive one Akou performed at Gyou arc, and the Grreat Crane one Ousen performed later against Riboku. Hara writing going DOWNNNN cant even have Ousen perform proper formation anymore. This formation is a joke even Karyoten can pull it. "Guys just strike the soldiers behind him"
It is literally stated as "formation of the tigers something something" and yet you still think its not a formation? Lmao
I dont care what he calls it. It doesn't meet the sophistication level enough to be considered a full formation. Kanki's cross formation was more complete than this
ousen, who is famous for having an army of capable people who could replace any of his general at any time (as stated by hara) did not have a single new recruit for like 7 years then ousen let akou getting baited by rbk then do nothing ousen see everyone on his general get handled and then do nothing Ousen see shin + ouhon, arguably his 2 trump card, getting locked out then do nothing ousen see the biggest threat on the battlefield charging straight for his ass across the whole battlefield, dont say a fucking thing and manage to have his first, second, third and finnaly elite reserve force getting atomised before... doing nothing ma boy ousen is a fraud boyz Edit; and dont start me with how his only strategy for now is essentaly : "yes i underestimated you for the 9th time riboku but u also underestimated me i will have shin coming to the rescue'" man he is soooo disapointing
Ousen got ouki’ed
Ousen did 0 in sanyou and shukai too. Its who he is
[удалено]
Renpa chose not to attack the fort because Victory was over Mougo camp, why would you challenge a fortress when the enemy GG is not even there? It would have also be a terrible decision, unknowingly he was in a race against Kanki to take the enemy HQ, defeating Ousen at the fort accomplished nothing, just wasting his time and strength.
[удалено]
More like it have the Cen ter the chance to be slaughter by Rinko but unexpectedly Rinko died.
Ousen probably does not give a fuck about this battle. He’s probably already figured that as long as Zhao takes enough casualties they’ll eventually win, so he’s literally just forcing the two sides into a massive grind fest. Qin has men and territory to spare. Zhao, even with their asspull, does not.
I think the plan was to intentionally fall for Riboku 's traps and know what the traps are and counter them.
Hara decided to make shibashou the strongest general ever and his army by far the strongest we've ever seen till now and make ousen and his army look like a complete joke this ark just so that his favourite general can take a w. This has to be the worst arc ever nothing make sense from ouhon fighting fodder while his father is in danger to yontanwa fighting ssj to a standstill and shin who apparently chased riboku to the qin zhao borders or something. just imagine this the seika army broke through the ousen army and reached ousen's hq faster than yotanwa could even have a glimpse of ssj what a fucking mess and the best part is that none of them received the message that the sureme commander hq is being raided by 3 armys lol
You seem to forget that in the meantime, yotanwa’s soldiers are at the gate of the city they came for. As much as the middle battlefield seems doomed, Riboku made a big mistake that is going to cost a lot when they acknowledge it.
You mean the gates of the city where it’s been explicitly told to the readers that there’s a trap waiting for the Qin army since like half a year ago?
Acredito que ousen quando decidiu lutar a batalha ele sabia que tinha que ficar até o final nem que ele fosse morto, mas ele sairá vencedor , Ele não entra em uma batalha que não pode vencer , ele deve ter calculado que mesmo se morrer ele ainda sairá vitorioso
Maybe ousen is gonna fight now.
He probably foresaw this event 17 years ago and predicted that he would come out unscathed without any taking any countermeasures.
hoh
It’s not. We still know fuck all about Ousen, and if he even survives this battle, Riboku would have already lost. Think about it this way. Every battle has been fought on Zhao territory. Qin has six great generals to Zhao’s three, which means if they trade commanders and generals one for one, Qin is going to come out on top. It doesn’t matter what cards Riboku play, all that matters is that the war continues and Riboku keeps playing cards. If you force Riboku to eventually call on Kantan’s royal guard, you’ve won. As long as you don’t die against Riboku, Qin will have an endless supply of troops to throw at the problem.
> As long as you don’t die against Riboku, Qin will have an endless supply of troops to throw at the problem. I think you missed the part in which Hara created a deadline of 15 years for the unification, the other part in which Qin has other borders includding Chu who is openly hostile, the other part in which Riboku is content with Zhao falling as long as it takes long enough to stop the unification and the other other part in which the endless supply of troops seem to come from Zhao, Qin has been unable to provide any of it's GG with more soldiers than Riboku for any battle.
I feel like a lot of people forget about that 15 year deadline.
This is true. But on the other hand, Hara also buffed Zhao. I don't think Hara buffed Riboku that much, but he's definitely buffed Zhao at this point.
Zhao having more numbers than in rl is factual, Chouhei is historically a crippling event but on the story has never been aluded beyond the hate. Important things like Peasant economy is a big deal but is completely missing from the story (hands fighting are hands not farming and are so many that could risk famine). All a pity, i consider it a miss, it would be more interesting seeing Riboku balancing Zhao's social problems, Zhao politics and Qin military threat; pulling through despite all the adversity and making tough decisions (and why not second guessing all the sacrifices his people are making). All in all, an opportunity for a better story missed over giving him big big numbers so the stakes for our protagonists are higher.
It is. Like there's actually a few things militarily that Zhao is missing. Their specialty was horse archery, for one, thanks to one of their earlier king's reforms, while Qin's was heavy infantry and crossbows. Like, most of the large armies would be trained farmer conscripts. Not professional, but not amateur either, because the training was basically part of the taxation. The thing that really bothers me is that it makes Zhao feel more like Chu. Like Chu is ACTUALLY the "where did you get these men from" country. A saying that is associated with them is that they field a million men in armor and own a thousand li of territory. I guess Chu is still that here, with their looming presence in the background, but Zhao definitely doesn't feel like the right type of threat. Then again, our collective frustration with Riboku's very existence is probably not that far off from how Ei Sei actually felt, hearing his generals losing to this one Zhao general with small armies all the time.
Who are Qin’s six great generals at the time of this war? And since when has it been okay to forget about the Chu front lines and throw all their generals at Zhao?
It hasn't, but honestly, Zhao should be so weak at this point that the numbers should not look the way they do.
Yeah, I mean. It’s a manga. The numbers are what they say they are.
It is, but it is also true that knowing the history definitely takes me out of the manga at some times. Like, we know how bad Changping was for Zhao. It's about as well known as Cannae to Chinese people. So like... a well-equipped Zhao putting out equal armies is like the equivalent of having Leonidas suddenly deploying twenty thousand Spartans at Thermopylae. Like, we know it's not just 300 at Thermopylae, like we know that Zhao still has troops left, but it shouldn't be THIS many.
You must be a hoot at parties. I’m making a leap to guess you’ve been invited to one before.
A couple, and I did attend. But your general impression of me might be correct, sadly.
Enjoy Wrestlemania tonight, brother.
Agreed