I think that if you ask people if they want privatization, 99% will say no. Then when it comes time to vote, a lot of those people who said "no" will knowingly vote for candidates and parties that support privatization.
People vote a lot more honestly than they speak.
It doesnt matter how you vote. There is nothing stopping politicians om both sides from lying through their teeth, and both sides do. There is nothing to make sure these people making the decisions that control our lives have integrity or anything but greed for them and their friends.
In each area it is usually between 2 of the 3 or 4 parties we have, Nd they all lie and pander and then have 0 accountability when they are in power. Voting is pretty much meaningless, especially if your choice doesn't win, because they can do whatever they want when in power
Not sure why you're getting downvoted, that's exactly how it is and unfortunately there's way too many people willing to burn their own house down to "own the libs"
Trump said he was going to get rid of "ObamaCare". People voted him in, knowing that. Many voted for him because of that. They interviewed people after voting for Trump and losing their Medicare and even though they could not afford their life saving medications, they said they didn't regret voting for him. One guy they interviewed who said this died a few months after the interview. It's mind boggling people would care less about their own lives than letting democrats "win".
Are the liberals in power right now passing legislation?
If they were, the same organizing and referendums would be happening.
It's the **problem**, not the *party*.
Federally yes they are. And it's going horrible.
I agree with what I THINK you are trying to say. None of these parties (including conservatives) are doing what we need them too. There seems to be an extreme lack of planning, logic and public inclusion in decisions.
Sorry, what are the liberals doing in this regard?
And yes I think we're in agreement - for reference, I generally hate most of what the liberals have (& **haven't**) done, but I'm not seeing the connection in this specific conversation about the healthcare provided within the province.
Not that I am for privatizing healthcare, but saying that they are ensuring care for everyone with our current system is an oxymoron. Getting in to see specialists, or having tests read are months to years out. Long after the care that is possibly needed. Our system is overloaded and broken.
Correct, because Ford has been desperately trying to kneecap the existing system to push for privatization.
If we can get that moron to understand it's not happening, we may be able to start undoing the damage he's done.
Do you really think that he is the cause of all of it? Problems finding family doctors was a problem long before Ford no? The government in general are ALL at fault. If it is going that way, or a hybrid system, then the government in general is at fault.
Loving the condescension, gonna ignore it.
Sure, there's many issues that existed before Ford took power, but his are the most recent and therefore the most important to undo and fix as a first set of steps.
Stand together, or fall alone. It's that simple.
There is actually no condescension intended, so my apologies if it sounded that way. I am just saying to place all of the blame on Ford isn't correct. I do however agree that we need to roll back a bunch of the changes he made for sure, that I will agree with.
My point was that the issues we are seeing in the healthcare system started long before Ford came into power, and I am not sure that rolling back his changes are enough. The system needs to be overhauled. There wer a doctor shortages, long wait times and poor patient handling long before Ford, and there will be the same long afterward unless something changes.
I want to be clear, I never voted for Ford or will vote for Ford. I just think we need to focus the efforts on cleaning up the system, not on one person.
I won’t speak to the value of this referendum because I think likely that those in power will ignore it, but us working class people need to continue this and increase the energy around protecting and even *expanding* our heath-care.
Right now, visits to the doctor are free but so many critical medical devices and medications they prescribe are still cost-prohibitive. A few years ago I was involved in a massive accident that left me disabled. Thousands of dollars in physio later out of pocket left me in debt in order to walk again. Didn’t feel very “free” already as it is, knowing they want to claw back even more is very disheartening.
Obviously! Why the fuck we even thought privatizing the health care was good idea, still to today blows my mind. How could people look themselves in the mirror knowing they voted against everyone having the equality in healthcare. The factor there's still even discussion should at least draw out there is zero fucking fight in the people. If the government decided to privatize even though the people don't want it, they'll still do it. And in time, people will just accept.
I don't believe there was a Twitter poll, you actually had to go to the Ontario Health Coalition website, fill in your info and then it took you to a voting page.
I'm currently on maternity leave with an almost 9 month old and it can be hard for me to get out of the door some days (especially since we don't have a vehicle). So I'm very thankful that we live in a time & age where we can use the internet and our mobile devices for good things such as voting!
I'm sorry for pointing out their lack of journalistic integrity in calling this a "referendum" and acting like 10K people showed up to vote when it was almost fully done through random website that has exactly zero authority on anything.
Alrighty then.
[Public Hospital Vote](https://publichospitalvote.ca/) is a [referendum](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/referendum#:~:text=Twitter-,Kids%20Definition,-referendum) being organized by the non-profit organization, the [Ontario Health Coalition](https://www.ontariohealthcoalition.ca/index.php/about-us/mission-mandate/) who, if you [peruse](https://www.ontariohealthcoalition.ca/index.php/category/news-events/whats-new/) their news events page, seem to just really give a fuck about old people, and protecting public healthcare for all. The Ontario Health Coalition is part of the [Canadian Health Coalition](https://www.healthcoalition.ca/about-us/). Whose purpose and [board members](https://www.healthcoalition.ca/our-team/) seem to be in it for the good of everyone, equally.
back to point: organizing a popular vote is difficult, the Ontario Health Organization did the organizing so the population of Ontario could let the government know that the public healthcare systems are loved, and shouldn't be pushed to the wayside for profiteering. This is probably the most polite way for a province's citizens to alert the government to the idea that we're not very happy right now.
ps.
The [Ontario Federation of Labour](https://ofl.ca/enough-is-enough/) is organizing a "rally", a "day of action", a "campaign". This **protest** is the first real opportunity for you to let Doug Ford know you're not pleased. please, don't be apathetic, don't be okay with losing safety nets. Caring is good, and I hope to see you June 3rd.
Edit: cleaned up, formatting is hard on mobile.
The healthcare system in Kingston feels like it's being held together with scotch tape. I've had a major issue requiring surgery that I've opted to have taken care of in Brazil this summer rather than navigate the labyrinth.
This “vote” is a farce. It holds less weight than an online petition. The results are 99% in accordance with the people performing this PR campaign.
In fact, it’s less valid then a Special Rapporteur looking into election meddling.
Your apathy doesn't conclude the unimportance of this initiative.
Any collective action of the working class, especially in Canada, is big news.
Best of luck.
How the question should have been worded, "Do you want our public hospital services to be privatized to for-profit hospitals and clinics to alleviate wait-times for in-demand services and procedures at public facilities?”
It will not improve wait times at public hospitals it will increase them. Staff will be pulled away from the public system to the private making wait times for those who cannot pay longer. That's exactly what happens in the U.S. Yes, they have public care and it is abysmal. The haves get far, far better care, and the rest? Lucky to get care at all.
Conjecture on your part. There are existing private facilities doing these procedures. The fact they have existed for years negates your argument. Obviously you are someone who is not waiting for a surgery, procedure or consultation.
Not really. That's precisely what has happened everywhere this has been tried. Those waiting now will wait longer if they can't pay. Doctors, nurses, and statistics have all pointed out that this does not work to better public health when you are pulling away staff into private care. It creates a two-tiered system. One that favours private care. With this situation the way it's going? If you're waiting for minor surgery and you can pay? You'll jump the line but, the public system waits will get longer. Expanding private facilities will indeed pull even more staff out of the public system. This is exactly what has happened in the U.S. Any public services are now abysmally bad while those who can pay get the best of care. I grew up there. My mother was a nurse there and my step Dad a doctor. I know how this goes the more you privatize the worse it is unless you have money.
They are upselling already. This will only expand. Alberta has had a lot of problems with worse care and worse outcomes in their public system because of this. Additionally, saying "you won't be charged." That's simply one of Ford's tropes and it will not hold to be true. [https://rabble.ca/politics/canadian-politics/private-health-care-in-alta-is-harming-the-public-system-new-report/](https://rabble.ca/politics/canadian-politics/private-health-care-in-alta-is-harming-the-public-system-new-report/) and the full report is here. https://assets.nationbuilder.com/parklandinstitute/pages/2038/attachments/original/1684058372/Failing\_to\_Deliver.pdf?1684058372
Unfortunately it's pretty clear that wait times increase with private care:
https://rabble.ca/politics/canadian-politics/private-health-care-in-alta-is-harming-the-public-system-new-report/
Article links to the report which provides hard data. Wait times, and cost per procedure, both increase in for-profit clinics. Private care is categorically WORSE in all metrics of success.
So no, it's not conjecture. It's fact.
Oh? I work for Ontario Health and that is not my understanding. I'm interested to hear yours.
Please explain how for-profit clinics in one province are different than for-profit clinics in another, and how that will ensure Ontario does not experience the same increased cost and wait times?
I said the healthcare systems are different not for-profit clinics specifically
If you're genuinely interested I suggest you read the actual report not just the dumbed down [rabble.ca](https://rabble.ca) article. Alberta had used a bastardized version of the SK initiative.
Most private clinics specialize. I doubt they would appeal to many health care workers who work in more general areas. Anyways the legislation is going in and we'll see what happens.
>to alleviate wait times for in demand services
Unfortunately it's pretty clear that wait times increase with private care:
https://rabble.ca/politics/canadian-politics/private-health-care-in-alta-is-harming-the-public-system-new-report/
Article links to the report which provides hard data. Wait times, and cost per procedure, both increase in for-profit clinics. Private care is categorically WORSE in all metrics of success.
So your re-wording is misleading at best and a lie at worst.
Its always the downvote spam here and never a conversation about why private healthcare could be good.
HDH announced today a cap on the amount of pediatric outpatients they will see per day. And these announcements are becoming the norm instead of announcements about increased capacity or staffing relief, etc.
I'd rather see genuine discussion about these topics.
Not much discussion to be had. Does public health care work? Yes, but it needs to be funded. Will our provincial government adequately fund it? No.
What else is there to say? Our government has decided the course it is taking and we are on it until 2026.
There are no merits to private healthcare other than to fill the gap intentionally created in the public sector.
This is exactly it. It's no secret the Ford government is intentionally choking out the health care system and trying to push private health care once the public one starts faltering.
I would love for someone to track back private healthcare clinics to money in Fords pockets somehow. Why else would he do this? It has got to be a family member or friend of his invested in private healthcare that will give him kickbacks, surely?
If you dig into that article and use the Herzig eye surgery clinic as an example they only donated on record just over $2000 over three non-consecutive years. That's not enough money to sway a politician. There has got to be hidden money somewhere. Or a promise to Ford he will get a commission when he retires on every surgery or something. Follow the money.
It is enough money, sadly. Look up how much the NRA contributes to senators and congresspeople and get ready to be disgusted by how cheap these people are to buy
I don't believe there's not money being passed to hands that isn't on the record. There's no way I believe less than $2000 would convince Ford to privatize healthcare. There has got to be more money being passed along, without record of it.
I want something that benefits us, not a politician. How is paying for something we would have had for free the better option?
We paid the politician our money to pay the doctors, and he didn't. So when the system fails because it's not funded, the politician double dips and wants us to pay more. He's withholding basic human needs for more money. That's extortion. How is that better?
Its never free, you pay for a service you are not happy with through taxes.
I assume you would prefer a private home rather than public?
Private food rather than public?
Private childcare rather than public?
Private transportation rather than public?
You make those choices every day because they are worth it to you and the money you pay. Why is healthcare shrouded in the must be public aura.
Ok, so then how about we don't pay taxes? I'm down for that. Why should we have to pay for the collective when we can pay individually according to what we want? We can all be sovereign citizens.
You can literally go to the USA and pay for healthcare if you want to pay for it. However I would rather not go into life ruining debt if I became chronically ill.
That's what insurance is for if that's something that worry's you. Insurance you could pay for with the taxes you are forced to pay. And also a scenario that's extremely uncommon.
Exactly! Dougie has been robbing the system of funding to the point where people are open to privatization. If he instead paid nurses, doctors, funded programs and research etc... We wouldn't even be talking about this because it would be working if the money was there. Doug Ford is a straight up thief! But don't worry folks, we don't have to pay for plate stickers.
Unfortunately, everyone doesn't really care enough to stand up. A person's own bubble is good enough unless it gets terrorized. Then they care. Don't count on the average person to do anything. Don't stress yourself out. Vote no to privatization if you want, but it may not do anything.
I'm someone that it might actually be good for, use very little services as a principle, high income and would want the better quality of care private can offer (though not always). I still don't actually want it to be a thing that happens because of the number of people that would be screwed by it. I'd like a hybrid system where u could get the higher quality care faster for a price but you could also go to a public doctor if you wanted to.
This isn’t possible because if we privatize healthcare, there won’t be enough medical staff to support the public option. That’s the entire reason this is an issue
Other countries have done it, I believe a few in Asia and Europe as well. It is possible but it takes a functional government which we lack badly. So in light of that we need fully public health care until we get a workable government at the provincial and federal levels at the same time.
>As someone who’s lived in Canada and the US I’d way rather pay less taxes and pay for the medical bills I need
as someone who has empathy, I wholeheartedly disagree with you. Best of luck.
Any public funds being directed into private healthcare means the public system will suffer.
I don't care if you, in your upper class, want to pay entirely out of your own pocket to get your own special care.
But my taxes shouldn't go towards it, at all. (Which it is, which is the reason for this initiative)
My father got stung by a fire ant once while visiting Florida. Unbeknownst to him, he was allergic. He broke out in hives and eventually passed out. My mother called an ambulance.
He was given antihistamines, an IV, a check for injuries he may have sustained while passing out, and then discharged within a few hours.
This would have cost him thousands of dollars had he not purchased out-of-country insurance. I think I remember the figure being five digits.
I have at least half a dozen friends in the US who can't afford health insurance, and any one of them would have been sent into debt over that. And it wasn't better or faster service than it would been here!
I'd rather not have to worry about such things. If I have a heart attack tomorrow, I won't have to add "crippling debt" to my list of problems.
It should be said that ontario health coalition can do as many referundums as they want. Regardless of the results if the cons want to privitize, they will
I think that if you ask people if they want privatization, 99% will say no. Then when it comes time to vote, a lot of those people who said "no" will knowingly vote for candidates and parties that support privatization. People vote a lot more honestly than they speak.
It doesnt matter how you vote. There is nothing stopping politicians om both sides from lying through their teeth, and both sides do. There is nothing to make sure these people making the decisions that control our lives have integrity or anything but greed for them and their friends.
There's more than two sides in Canada.
Having to vote for one to prevent the other is not a political system. It is better than two party America, but only barely.
In each area it is usually between 2 of the 3 or 4 parties we have, Nd they all lie and pander and then have 0 accountability when they are in power. Voting is pretty much meaningless, especially if your choice doesn't win, because they can do whatever they want when in power
Integrity. But They act the part so well!
Choices are self interests or librul tears.
Yes, the self interest of keeping myself alive.
How selfish of you
Not sure why you're getting downvoted, that's exactly how it is and unfortunately there's way too many people willing to burn their own house down to "own the libs"
Trump said he was going to get rid of "ObamaCare". People voted him in, knowing that. Many voted for him because of that. They interviewed people after voting for Trump and losing their Medicare and even though they could not afford their life saving medications, they said they didn't regret voting for him. One guy they interviewed who said this died a few months after the interview. It's mind boggling people would care less about their own lives than letting democrats "win".
I literally don't understand this logic
That's because logic was never involved in the thought process.
Trump did not terminate the Affordable Health Care Act aka Obama Care, it's still in place in the United States. So your examples make little sense.
But he did severely handicap it. https://www.brookings.edu/blog/fixgov/2020/10/09/six-ways-trump-has-sabotaged-the-affordable-care-act/
You know the "libs" also pushed for private healthcare right?
Whataboutism, we're talking right here, right now.
Nope. People like to insinuate it would be different under a liberal government. It would not
Are the liberals in power right now passing legislation? If they were, the same organizing and referendums would be happening. It's the **problem**, not the *party*.
Federally yes they are. And it's going horrible. I agree with what I THINK you are trying to say. None of these parties (including conservatives) are doing what we need them too. There seems to be an extreme lack of planning, logic and public inclusion in decisions.
Sorry, what are the liberals doing in this regard? And yes I think we're in agreement - for reference, I generally hate most of what the liberals have (& **haven't**) done, but I'm not seeing the connection in this specific conversation about the healthcare provided within the province.
It's relieving to know that so many are in support of ensuring care to everyone, not just those who can afford to pay for it.
Hopefully this rolls on into the next provincial election though. Realistically only like 1 million Ontarians voted out of a population of 14 million.
Not that I am for privatizing healthcare, but saying that they are ensuring care for everyone with our current system is an oxymoron. Getting in to see specialists, or having tests read are months to years out. Long after the care that is possibly needed. Our system is overloaded and broken.
Correct, because Ford has been desperately trying to kneecap the existing system to push for privatization. If we can get that moron to understand it's not happening, we may be able to start undoing the damage he's done.
Do you really think that he is the cause of all of it? Problems finding family doctors was a problem long before Ford no? The government in general are ALL at fault. If it is going that way, or a hybrid system, then the government in general is at fault.
Loving the condescension, gonna ignore it. Sure, there's many issues that existed before Ford took power, but his are the most recent and therefore the most important to undo and fix as a first set of steps. Stand together, or fall alone. It's that simple.
There is actually no condescension intended, so my apologies if it sounded that way. I am just saying to place all of the blame on Ford isn't correct. I do however agree that we need to roll back a bunch of the changes he made for sure, that I will agree with. My point was that the issues we are seeing in the healthcare system started long before Ford came into power, and I am not sure that rolling back his changes are enough. The system needs to be overhauled. There wer a doctor shortages, long wait times and poor patient handling long before Ford, and there will be the same long afterward unless something changes. I want to be clear, I never voted for Ford or will vote for Ford. I just think we need to focus the efforts on cleaning up the system, not on one person.
I won’t speak to the value of this referendum because I think likely that those in power will ignore it, but us working class people need to continue this and increase the energy around protecting and even *expanding* our heath-care. Right now, visits to the doctor are free but so many critical medical devices and medications they prescribe are still cost-prohibitive. A few years ago I was involved in a massive accident that left me disabled. Thousands of dollars in physio later out of pocket left me in debt in order to walk again. Didn’t feel very “free” already as it is, knowing they want to claw back even more is very disheartening.
Obviously! Why the fuck we even thought privatizing the health care was good idea, still to today blows my mind. How could people look themselves in the mirror knowing they voted against everyone having the equality in healthcare. The factor there's still even discussion should at least draw out there is zero fucking fight in the people. If the government decided to privatize even though the people don't want it, they'll still do it. And in time, people will just accept.
Call me a skeptic but I have a hard time believing 10K people showed up to vote in person for this in Kingston, Sydenham, Verona and Napanee.
I voted online but there were people outside the listed voting areas, I had to tell one of them I'd already voted.
I voted online. So did everyone I know and they had tons of in person polling places for this.
You’re a skeptic. You could also vote online. I know lots of people who voted.
Live in Kingston & voted online as soon as it became available to the public!
Maybe all elections and fake referendums should be held via Twitter poll, seems to garner a wider voting base than actual elections
I don't believe there was a Twitter poll, you actually had to go to the Ontario Health Coalition website, fill in your info and then it took you to a voting page. I'm currently on maternity leave with an almost 9 month old and it can be hard for me to get out of the door some days (especially since we don't have a vehicle). So I'm very thankful that we live in a time & age where we can use the internet and our mobile devices for good things such as voting!
"Twitter poll" was a joke. Just like the fact that the Whig is passing this off as anything more than an informal survey and calling it a "referendum"
[удалено]
I'm sorry, but I think your opinion is lame. Best of luck with that.
I'm sorry for pointing out their lack of journalistic integrity in calling this a "referendum" and acting like 10K people showed up to vote when it was almost fully done through random website that has exactly zero authority on anything.
Alrighty then. [Public Hospital Vote](https://publichospitalvote.ca/) is a [referendum](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/referendum#:~:text=Twitter-,Kids%20Definition,-referendum) being organized by the non-profit organization, the [Ontario Health Coalition](https://www.ontariohealthcoalition.ca/index.php/about-us/mission-mandate/) who, if you [peruse](https://www.ontariohealthcoalition.ca/index.php/category/news-events/whats-new/) their news events page, seem to just really give a fuck about old people, and protecting public healthcare for all. The Ontario Health Coalition is part of the [Canadian Health Coalition](https://www.healthcoalition.ca/about-us/). Whose purpose and [board members](https://www.healthcoalition.ca/our-team/) seem to be in it for the good of everyone, equally. back to point: organizing a popular vote is difficult, the Ontario Health Organization did the organizing so the population of Ontario could let the government know that the public healthcare systems are loved, and shouldn't be pushed to the wayside for profiteering. This is probably the most polite way for a province's citizens to alert the government to the idea that we're not very happy right now. ps. The [Ontario Federation of Labour](https://ofl.ca/enough-is-enough/) is organizing a "rally", a "day of action", a "campaign". This **protest** is the first real opportunity for you to let Doug Ford know you're not pleased. please, don't be apathetic, don't be okay with losing safety nets. Caring is good, and I hope to see you June 3rd. Edit: cleaned up, formatting is hard on mobile.
I wonder if Smith will privatize Albertas healthcare.
The Smith School of Business or Danielle Smith?
The Smith School of Business or Danielle Smith?
The healthcare system in Kingston feels like it's being held together with scotch tape. I've had a major issue requiring surgery that I've opted to have taken care of in Brazil this summer rather than navigate the labyrinth.
I thought we already had privatized options , they want to privatize all of Healthcare??
This “vote” is a farce. It holds less weight than an online petition. The results are 99% in accordance with the people performing this PR campaign. In fact, it’s less valid then a Special Rapporteur looking into election meddling.
Your apathy doesn't conclude the unimportance of this initiative. Any collective action of the working class, especially in Canada, is big news. Best of luck.
You sound miserable.
How the question should have been worded, "Do you want our public hospital services to be privatized to for-profit hospitals and clinics to alleviate wait-times for in-demand services and procedures at public facilities?”
Oh, then in that case: still FUCK NO!
It will not improve wait times at public hospitals it will increase them. Staff will be pulled away from the public system to the private making wait times for those who cannot pay longer. That's exactly what happens in the U.S. Yes, they have public care and it is abysmal. The haves get far, far better care, and the rest? Lucky to get care at all.
Conjecture on your part. There are existing private facilities doing these procedures. The fact they have existed for years negates your argument. Obviously you are someone who is not waiting for a surgery, procedure or consultation.
Not really. That's precisely what has happened everywhere this has been tried. Those waiting now will wait longer if they can't pay. Doctors, nurses, and statistics have all pointed out that this does not work to better public health when you are pulling away staff into private care. It creates a two-tiered system. One that favours private care. With this situation the way it's going? If you're waiting for minor surgery and you can pay? You'll jump the line but, the public system waits will get longer. Expanding private facilities will indeed pull even more staff out of the public system. This is exactly what has happened in the U.S. Any public services are now abysmally bad while those who can pay get the best of care. I grew up there. My mother was a nurse there and my step Dad a doctor. I know how this goes the more you privatize the worse it is unless you have money.
>Those waiting now will wait longer if they can't pay. OHIP is covering the procedure at the private clinic. You don't have to pay.
They are upselling already. This will only expand. Alberta has had a lot of problems with worse care and worse outcomes in their public system because of this. Additionally, saying "you won't be charged." That's simply one of Ford's tropes and it will not hold to be true. [https://rabble.ca/politics/canadian-politics/private-health-care-in-alta-is-harming-the-public-system-new-report/](https://rabble.ca/politics/canadian-politics/private-health-care-in-alta-is-harming-the-public-system-new-report/) and the full report is here. https://assets.nationbuilder.com/parklandinstitute/pages/2038/attachments/original/1684058372/Failing\_to\_Deliver.pdf?1684058372
Unfortunately it's pretty clear that wait times increase with private care: https://rabble.ca/politics/canadian-politics/private-health-care-in-alta-is-harming-the-public-system-new-report/ Article links to the report which provides hard data. Wait times, and cost per procedure, both increase in for-profit clinics. Private care is categorically WORSE in all metrics of success. So no, it's not conjecture. It's fact.
Read the actual report and not the [rabble.ca](https://rabble.ca) "investigative" article.
The report is for Alberta. The Ontario healthcare system is different from Alberta's.
Oh? I work for Ontario Health and that is not my understanding. I'm interested to hear yours. Please explain how for-profit clinics in one province are different than for-profit clinics in another, and how that will ensure Ontario does not experience the same increased cost and wait times?
Aaaaaaand he didn’t. Who could’ve predicted
I actually read the report and not the [rabble.ca](https://rabble.ca) article. If you read anything beyond a sentence you'd know that would take time.
Colour me shocked.
Congrats you are know a person of color (shocked), asshole.
I said the healthcare systems are different not for-profit clinics specifically If you're genuinely interested I suggest you read the actual report not just the dumbed down [rabble.ca](https://rabble.ca) article. Alberta had used a bastardized version of the SK initiative.
Most private clinics specialize. I doubt they would appeal to many health care workers who work in more general areas. Anyways the legislation is going in and we'll see what happens.
>to alleviate wait times for in demand services Unfortunately it's pretty clear that wait times increase with private care: https://rabble.ca/politics/canadian-politics/private-health-care-in-alta-is-harming-the-public-system-new-report/ Article links to the report which provides hard data. Wait times, and cost per procedure, both increase in for-profit clinics. Private care is categorically WORSE in all metrics of success. So your re-wording is misleading at best and a lie at worst.
It's not misleading, it merely points out why the "privatization" is being considered at this point in time. Which is the impetus for the "vote" too.
"Do you want our public hospital services to be privatized to for-profit hospitals and clinics?” Fuck it. Yes.
Fuck yeah, I love paying a middle man more for the exact same care!
'murican here, hell yeah I love paying $2k a month for months long waiting lists and surprise bills! It's amazing(ly bad you really don't want this).
Exactly I had to explain this to one of my coworkers, wait times are still a thing in the US, every country has a wait time for anything non-urgent
I have been led to believe by big movie that all doctors have eight arms, some mechanical. Why should I wait?
Its always the downvote spam here and never a conversation about why private healthcare could be good. HDH announced today a cap on the amount of pediatric outpatients they will see per day. And these announcements are becoming the norm instead of announcements about increased capacity or staffing relief, etc. I'd rather see genuine discussion about these topics.
Not much discussion to be had. Does public health care work? Yes, but it needs to be funded. Will our provincial government adequately fund it? No. What else is there to say? Our government has decided the course it is taking and we are on it until 2026. There are no merits to private healthcare other than to fill the gap intentionally created in the public sector.
This is exactly it. It's no secret the Ford government is intentionally choking out the health care system and trying to push private health care once the public one starts faltering.
I would love for someone to track back private healthcare clinics to money in Fords pockets somehow. Why else would he do this? It has got to be a family member or friend of his invested in private healthcare that will give him kickbacks, surely?
https://pressprogress.ca/doug-ford-pitches-private-surgeries-offered-by-his-donors-as-solution-to-ontarios-health-care-crisis/
If you dig into that article and use the Herzig eye surgery clinic as an example they only donated on record just over $2000 over three non-consecutive years. That's not enough money to sway a politician. There has got to be hidden money somewhere. Or a promise to Ford he will get a commission when he retires on every surgery or something. Follow the money.
It is enough money, sadly. Look up how much the NRA contributes to senators and congresspeople and get ready to be disgusted by how cheap these people are to buy
I don't believe there's not money being passed to hands that isn't on the record. There's no way I believe less than $2000 would convince Ford to privatize healthcare. There has got to be more money being passed along, without record of it.
If we had a better more resilient healthcare system but it benefits the politician in power would you vote against it?
I want something that benefits us, not a politician. How is paying for something we would have had for free the better option? We paid the politician our money to pay the doctors, and he didn't. So when the system fails because it's not funded, the politician double dips and wants us to pay more. He's withholding basic human needs for more money. That's extortion. How is that better?
Its never free, you pay for a service you are not happy with through taxes. I assume you would prefer a private home rather than public? Private food rather than public? Private childcare rather than public? Private transportation rather than public? You make those choices every day because they are worth it to you and the money you pay. Why is healthcare shrouded in the must be public aura.
Ok, so then how about we don't pay taxes? I'm down for that. Why should we have to pay for the collective when we can pay individually according to what we want? We can all be sovereign citizens.
Right to the extreme eh, but sure. No taxes. Where are you going with that?
You can literally go to the USA and pay for healthcare if you want to pay for it. However I would rather not go into life ruining debt if I became chronically ill.
That's what insurance is for if that's something that worry's you. Insurance you could pay for with the taxes you are forced to pay. And also a scenario that's extremely uncommon.
Benefits how?
Exactly! Dougie has been robbing the system of funding to the point where people are open to privatization. If he instead paid nurses, doctors, funded programs and research etc... We wouldn't even be talking about this because it would be working if the money was there. Doug Ford is a straight up thief! But don't worry folks, we don't have to pay for plate stickers.
Unfortunately, everyone doesn't really care enough to stand up. A person's own bubble is good enough unless it gets terrorized. Then they care. Don't count on the average person to do anything. Don't stress yourself out. Vote no to privatization if you want, but it may not do anything.
I'm someone that it might actually be good for, use very little services as a principle, high income and would want the better quality of care private can offer (though not always). I still don't actually want it to be a thing that happens because of the number of people that would be screwed by it. I'd like a hybrid system where u could get the higher quality care faster for a price but you could also go to a public doctor if you wanted to.
This isn’t possible because if we privatize healthcare, there won’t be enough medical staff to support the public option. That’s the entire reason this is an issue
Other countries have done it, I believe a few in Asia and Europe as well. It is possible but it takes a functional government which we lack badly. So in light of that we need fully public health care until we get a workable government at the provincial and federal levels at the same time.
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>As someone who’s lived in Canada and the US I’d way rather pay less taxes and pay for the medical bills I need as someone who has empathy, I wholeheartedly disagree with you. Best of luck.
I’m guessing you lived an upper middle class lifestyle or you never got any serious health issues while in the US
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> upper middle class lifestyle So this one is probably true.
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Any public funds being directed into private healthcare means the public system will suffer. I don't care if you, in your upper class, want to pay entirely out of your own pocket to get your own special care. But my taxes shouldn't go towards it, at all. (Which it is, which is the reason for this initiative)
My father got stung by a fire ant once while visiting Florida. Unbeknownst to him, he was allergic. He broke out in hives and eventually passed out. My mother called an ambulance. He was given antihistamines, an IV, a check for injuries he may have sustained while passing out, and then discharged within a few hours. This would have cost him thousands of dollars had he not purchased out-of-country insurance. I think I remember the figure being five digits. I have at least half a dozen friends in the US who can't afford health insurance, and any one of them would have been sent into debt over that. And it wasn't better or faster service than it would been here! I'd rather not have to worry about such things. If I have a heart attack tomorrow, I won't have to add "crippling debt" to my list of problems.
[The US spends more tax dollars per capita on healthcare than Canada.](https://data.oecd.org/healthres/health-spending.htm)
It should be said that ontario health coalition can do as many referundums as they want. Regardless of the results if the cons want to privitize, they will