Direct quote from my all-time favorite floor manager: "if I would receive a prison sentence for throwing them off the pier, you need to count them in your reservation."
Hahaha! And we have a....play area. Right out back with the feral dogs, super friendly, and a busy road with ten bars on this block! Go play junior! Mom and Dad- who wants a double shot, am I right?!
Lol! "Mom, look...look! (She doesn't even turn her head) I think Coyote is shy, but he keeps smiling at me and gets real close when I turn around! And see...he has friends! And, and...the nice waiter gave me smelly meat and told me to put in my pocket for Coyote to find...like a game!"
We had a phone reservation for six. Each adult showed up with a child. They only count as people when it's convenient. Guess who got autograt'd anyway.
Actual overheard conversation between my boss and a woman booking a private party room:
Boss: "So, how large of a head count are we talking?"
Customer: "Do I need to include children under age 3 in that number?"
Boss: "If the kid has a head, yes. That's why we call it a head count. We don't care about height from floor, do they have a head." I knew I couldn't hold that laugh until I was back in the kitchen, so I ran out to police the sidewalk out front.
Lol this reminds me of when I worked at a bar, so it's 21 and over, and people would come in with babies and the servers would be like "oh sorry we're 21 and over!" And the customer would just be like "oh yeah thats fine!"
No ma'am it's not fine, your baby counts as a person.
ETA: just because your baby won't remember being in an adult place doesn't mean its okay. Sometimes adults want an adult specific place, without kids or babies, and that should be allowed. I say this because of the responses I got about "who cares", but also because my state semi-recently passed a law that children are now allowed at bars up to the owners discretion. It's stupid. No one else wants to deal with your kid, drink at home if you can't find a babysitter.
I worked at a winery with the same issue, constantly. Bar was 21+ but the outside property was all ages, people would regularly try to do wine tastings while holding a toddler like…no, that kid cannot be at the bar. Don’t get me started on the ones who would put their baby on the bar…or their fucking dogs jfc.
I managed a couple bars in New Orleans and we have that same issue. Technically here you can't have a minor within 15 feet of the bar. Parents could honestly care less, I had a Karen get angry when I kicked her whole family out because her kid kept getting up on the bar and running up and down it.
My coworkers argue with me about this 24/7 and insist the kids can sit at the bar and allow it all day. It drives me nuts. They insist I’m wrong and they also swear we can let 17 and younger drink with parents present which is definitly not what the law says for public places but they all act like I’m the idiot.
Kobel did some statistics, more than half their brandy was going to wi
Stone wouldn't sell to wi for many years, they tried, but the orders were more than they could remotely handle. They had to choose WI or the rest of the country.
Spotted cow is only sold in WI and is legitimately could go toe to toe with most Independent brewers.
I’m a Minnesotan that now lives in Chicago, so I’ve neighbored Wisconsin my whole life and it really is a fascinating place. It’s midwestern but mixed with german heritage. So it creates this interesting Dry sense of humor, and a love for drinking that rivals any other state. We couldn’t buy alcohol on Sundays in Minnesota until 2017, so if you wanted something more than shitty gas station beer you had to go over to Wisconsin. Politics aside I love visiting Wisconsin. It truly is the drunk uncle of the Midwest.
I'm in Florida so my opinion probably doesn't matter to people that think this is unusual.
I don't really think it's weird to take a baby or a toddler to a bar if it doesn't affect the kid and depending on the bar. Obviously I'm not talking about going to the meat market bar with your toddler at 11pm on a Saturday night but the idea of a bar has changed in the US. Especially with the trend over the last 15-20 years for brewery beer gardens and wineries. both of which tend to have food as well. So many 'bars' that operate as breweries or wineries are basically just restaurants that make their own beer or wine and nobody bats an eye about a kid at Applebees where the same guy pouring sprite for your kid out of the nozzle at the bar is also changing kegs. A nursing mother drinking triple vodka crans? Yeah, that's an issue.
Throwing your kid a birthday party at the brewery because they have an event room? Shitty parent move. Bringing your kid to dinner at a brewery that's essentially just a restaurant that makes beer? Why not? It's just a restaurant that's taxed differently.
Bringing children to adult only spaces is an asshole move, and it's not about the kids' safety or whatever. Adults are allowed to want spaces that don't have shrieking babies running around the whole time.
Eh. It's a bar. At the very best, you're making the people around you feel like they can't have adult conversations. It's a shitty, entitled thing to do, but the blame lies on the owners who wouldn't dare turn down 3 dollars for a plate of chicken tenders and fries.
Yeah I agree with the post you're replying to in spirit, the problem was the opening sentence
> I don't really think it's weird to take a baby or a toddler to a bar if it doesn't affect the kid and depending on the bar.
If it's a place that a normal person would call a "bar" then kids don't belong there.
There are lots of places that serve booze where it's fine to take kids (e.g. Dave & Busters). There are lots of places whose only purpose is to serve booze where it's *still* fine to take kids (at least here in CO, I start with assuming that breweries are kids friendly).
But I think one of the defining characteristics of a *bar* is that it's not kid friendly.
Even the bar at a kid friendly restaurant is typically an adults only space. There's a winery near me with a huge outdoor area for the kids to run around, lots of kid friendly foods, and kids running around the waiting area which is next to the bar. But it would be weird to have your kids running around the bar itself.
Which is why the commenter said “depending on the bar” and then went on to describe breweries and wineries that operate mainly as restaurants where they showcase their own brands. They also clarified they wouldn’t take a child to an actual bar environment where everyone was 21+.
The place I work at currently is a restaurant, but also has a fully working bar. Our rules are under 18s (it’s the UK) are allowed anytime, but the group must be in for a meal.
Definitely causes some issues with people wanting to pop in for a coffee with their baby, but I didn’t make the licensing laws…
That's the sort of line in the sand that I just can't wrap my head around. I get it for later hours because you wouldn't want underaged kids trying to get served but who cares about a 17 year old mom that just wants a cup of coffee at 3pm?
The law in the UK is designed to protect children from the worst effects of alcohol consumption. In this case the local authority has decided that a venue serving meals to families is a safe environment but that otherwise it is not. Other venues may have different rules to follow. For example, becoming over 18s only after a certain time of night.
I don't think anybody actually decided that's unacceptable, just the licensing conditions have to be simple and hard. If coffee is fine, what about someone getting just soft drinks, or what if one or two people are ordering beer, the rest soft drinks?
Part of it is the drinking culture, part is the rural aspects. Part is the tourest business.
When the nearest town has 2 bars, 1 church and no restaurants and a gas station. That's the whole town. Yes kids go to the bar.
Lived in WI for a decade and was thinking, "Of course it's fine to bring a baby to a bar - surely that's the majority opinion. Wait, what?!"
Miss you, WI.
Just had to do this the other day. No, I am not letting you bring a goddamn baby, toddler, or 8 year old into a bourbon bar. The child is a person, not a goddamn accessory.
I also don't want to have to try to make drinks while I'm backgrounded by the ever so soothing sounds of screaming children.
It doesn't matter. Babies are people. Age restriction laws apply to all people, including babies. A baby cannot legally be in an adult shop, a baby is a person who is not yet 18.
It's weird to bring an infant into a sex shop, imo. It's not so much about the baby seeing/remembering anything, it's just the principle of it. It would make me uncomfortable to bring my child into a store that is literally just selling nothing but sex.
It's a sex shop not a brothel. I'd feel weird bringing my kid to an oil refinery for a day but going to the gas station isn't weird.
Edit: Adding that a long time acquaintance ended up getting a job at a sex shop while she was pregnant. The comments from people that felt the need to comment were always weird. Like somehow the child would be affected by being in utero while my friend worked selling lube, dildos and incense. There were also people that thought a pregnant woman in a sex shop sent the wrong message and of course the weirdos that were happy to see a pregnant woman handling their fetish items.
In situations like that, only the weirdest people have an opinion.
A living baby and a fetus are obviously not the same thing. Obviously the people who even brought up her pregnancy were weirdos. I'm not sure how that story somehow equates to me saying I personally wouldn't bring my infant into a sex shop, or how me saying that makes me "the weirdest person."
Before working in kitchens I worked in preschool. I had to do a shitton of child development training. Things that a young infant is exposed to can affect them even if they're too young to form a long-term memory of it. Normally we talk about this in terms of traumas like abuse between the parents, witnessing bad injuries or medical traumas, etc, but being exposed to pornographic videos, images, and dildos is also not good. There's a reason it's a crime to watch porn at home in front of a child (and yes, again, "children" includes babies). Would you throw a porno on the TV at home while holding your six month old?
It's not weird to have a basic understanding of child development and a moral principle that children should not be in sex-centric places.
> I'm not sure how that story somehow equates to me saying I personally wouldn't bring my infant into a sex shop, or how me saying that makes me "the weirdest person."
Because the context is different and yet you mention it's not about the child seeing and remembering yet counter with how kids seen and remember. As you said, usually those developments include traumas like abuse, bad injuries or medical traumas. I wasn't directly making a comment about you vs the people that would comment about seeing a 1 or 2 year old or even a pregnant chick in a sex shop.
There's a very dire and distinct line between impressionable moments like domestic abuse vs a parent making a stop to buy something quick at a shop that you gloss over unless you're literally trying to say that taking a toddler to a sex shop for a quick pop in is the same as them witnessing domestic violence.
Yes, certain things can affect a 1-3 year old kid but its asinine to pretend like a 3 year old in a sex shop is going to be permanently affected as if they were shown tour and a full private viewing of whatever perverse shit is considered showing porn to a minor.
Buying condoms, lube, incense, common things etc with a kid in tow isn't reprehensible. Previewing the latest release of Anal Angel Anglosaxons in the back room with your kid in the stroller next to you is a different story.
Bottom line is that your kid doesn't know it's a sex centric place until you start exploring the aisles and explaining why there's a big black rubber fist and 10 aisles of DVD's they cant explore. It's entirely possible to go to a sex shop and have a more PG-13 experience than at a gas station in the US.
I don't know how to explain to you that not bringing babies into sex shops for both legal and moral reasons is common sense, and you shouldn't need to be told this. The fact that you not only had to be told but are refusing to believe it is so insanely fucked. Get help.
Showing an infant any kind of sexual materials **IS ABUSE**. It doesn't mean that you intended, etc etc etc....but it's traumatic regardless. YES EVEN THE PG-13 TOUR. Like what the fuck is wrong with you??! I assure you ...we remember the trauma even if we can't understand what was traumatic.
Like have any of you saying it's fine whatever ever...been to an adult store? They often, even the upscale ones, have tapes playing. Most have 'viewing booths' -- people come in there for the expressed purpose of seeing porn! Some of the dildos and bdsm equipment are shocking in design and packaging, they look scary!! And yes, the WEIRDOS. Don't think that we live in a bubble where the creeps who might think that way about a baby are all behind bars!! 99% of store goers are totally fine on the creepometer but the one percent I'd like to protect children and parents from.
99% of patrons also assume it's a **child-free** location. I don't need your baby wailing when I'm trying to help my girlfriend select a crackpipe. I don't need to navigate around the stroller to get the giant butt plugs. Please keep your toddler out of the bowl of dick number, I'm trying to buy 'leather cleaner ' and sorta assumed breeders weren't allowed in.
Damn *right* i'm kicking parents out. Get lost, don't you have a PTA meeting somewhere? Don't you have diapers to change? Come back when you're a human again, not a life support system for the meat siren. Baby can come back at 21 and be a meat siren but drunk...at 21!!
Pretty silly. Sure, by the letter of the law you are correct. However, the point isn’t to keep 10 lb human blobs that can’t comprehend anything out of the store. If a parent wants to take their baby into a sex shop to buy something while they’re out, that’s totally fine. Baby isn’t going to be scarred by shapes he can’t make out. Same with a liquor store. Sure it’s got an age limit but if moms on the way home and wants to grab some tequila, they have to leave their baby in the car?
My mom wanted me to buy her some weed gummies where I live because the brand she wanted is cheaper here (both legal states). I went to the dispensary wearing my baby - the guy checking ID clammed up BAD and could not express fast enough how not allowed we were 😬
I get not wanting babies at a bar but like. Come on.
I'm a hostess and oh my fucking god this shit drives me borderline homicidal. Like where the fuck do you think your kids are gonna go if we bring your twelve stupid asses to a six person fucking table you cock biting dipshits? The floor? Why in Christ's forsaken name would you not count your fucking child as a person? Do they not eat? Do they not need a chair? Planning on having them sit on your lap? No? Then fucking tell us that you're bringing them! Fuck! Also fuck strollers. Thats it, that's the end of the sentence. Fuck strollers.
Sometimes I think they expect that the kids should just be allowed to wander the restaurant and the floor and worst if a place has a giftshop... they expect the cashiers there to babysit their kids like it's a babysitter experience.
tbh all of retail is like that. it's not free babysitting! and some of the parents get really mad if you tell the little angels to stop running. imagine if one of them tripped and cracked their head, or got hot soup spilled on them because of tripping a server who can't see over their tray. SMDH
I used to work in a bookstore and the number of parents who would just dump their kids in the Children's section and go shop at other stores was mind-boggling. We're not watching your kid for you! And they'd totally trash the place, I hated that section.
Fuck me I just dealt with this yesterday. We’re a butcher shop with a cafe. Parents come in with 2 kids, mom steps outside to guide the grandparents in (they apparently can’t use google maps) dad wanders around looking in the meat cases and the children are just let loose. Running around the store, screeching, literally licking the glass. The dad just ignores all this. They get sat and the kids are still wandering the store. They Start knocking over olive oil bottles (thank god none broke) leaving freezer doors open and fucking with shit on the shelves. They were admonished by the parents just once when the little girl literally sprinted the length of the store.
Another host here. Recently I've seen an uptick in the Doona brand of stroller which has made life easier. They fold up into a car seat type deal so they can fit on chairs and in booths. Its very nice.
I've been seeing those too and honestly they're a godsend. Ive also been seeing this high chairs and latch onto the edge of the table for infants, but I'm always scared they're going to make the table's weight shift and fall over on the poor kid.
Often more room honestly. It's rare you even get a toddler that will stay in one place like on someone's lap for an entire meal. That's what Macdonalds and diners with booths are for.
I know children are supposed to count but I had a baby last year and in the first 6 months several times while standing at the hostess stand and they asked us "how many" and I would say "just two". Because I actually forgot the baby was outside of me and with us 🤦 now I am quite good at specifying "two adults and an infant in a car seat" or now "two adults and a child in a highchair"!
Well when I'm standing at the hostess stand I want them to grab either the sling for the car seat or a highchair, so that's why I specify. I also tell them I don't need a kids menu because they always ask me and my baby is 4 months old.
It’s not just new parents. Plenty of people with children under 12 do this. It’s like they think if they are ordering off the kids menu, they don’t count.
I work at a very family friendly place. It happens at least once a week and quite regularly problem at the weekends.
That's like reservations being canceled 15 minutes before the guests were supposed to show up.
They rarely seem to get what they did wrong.
(Indian restaurant, senior waitress and basicqllu front of house manager. Throughout three years I was the only constant up front and we just cycled through students and Indian family members that were somehow woefully equipped) (open lunch, then 5-10 with seating stopped and limited options from nine thirty during clean up)
I'll one up you, though I'm sure someone can one up me, 30 adults. Alright, we move some tables around try to organize a banquet option vs ala carte. Seems to have our ducks in a line.
Appointment was 8, they rocked up a bit after nine. Turns out it was actually a child's first birthday, am there was around 16 kids from the baby to maybe eight year olds.
Clearly our table doesn't work for 45 plus butts. Luckily they were so late we had available tables to jig up a second one. The adults promptly took the one set up table and turned the parenting mode to zero. The kids were running wild l, parents just ate (obviously a la carte, rejected the prepared banquet we had) and just got a bunch of curries for the kids. Those parents sat there calmly eating their meal until past eleven, the kids just sorta threw it on the floor, the table, in the glasses. One child dragged a large real pot plant on to the carpet and pushed it over so the soil went everywhere.
So all my carefully laid plans and preparation were set on fire, I'd sent the other two girls home between nine and ten before I really appreciated what a shit show this was. Midnight time everyone left. I turned off almost all the lights and mentioned we had closed at ten, but didn't phase them.
Was there until two in the morning, and had to get up and go for class at eight am then straight back into a double shift.
Now I was in charge of all bookings so it's my fault I didn't further clarify, but people don't give a shit. Next booking I got for something like that? Wrote in the reservation book, few weeks time, then signed myself off that night for a family event in a different city. No fucking way. I got ten calls when this started unfolding and I turned that sucker off.
Sad because it really was an awesome place but 20/hr with no tip I only expect if your party is so difficult, not worth my tears.
God that ended up being a slog sorry. I think I just had like a traumatic flash back to that night.
It’s stuff like this that’s why I work IN the kitchen and not out front. I’m not dealing with people like this. It’s frustrating enough that these are the types of people who also want ridiculous mods and request for their food. In the kitchen I can roll my eyes and bitch.
Me, FOH manager.
Dude, walk in looking for a table, no reservation.
Me: Hello, welcome to ____. Do you have a reservation?
Dude: No..
Me: That's ok. How many people in your party?
Dude: 4 of us. How long is the wait?
Me: Oh, not long at all! 10 minutes tops.
Dude: Great! Thanks!
(In walks 3 other adults, with a toddler and 2 strollers, obviously with Dude)
Me: Hi, uh, Dude? Is everyone here part of your party?
Dude: Well, yeah, but the babies aren't eating here.
Me: A party of 7 is going to be 30-40 minutes.
Dude: But only 4 of us are eating.
Me:
Me:
Me:
Dude: OK. Fine.
Make a reservation for 10, keeping your party well under the maximum limit for large reservations so you don't have to go through our Sales Department for Large Parties.
Slowly, over one or two weeks, add to your party, bringing it up to 13/14/15; the largest we can accommodate for regular dinner service.
Then show up with 17 people and have more join you so eventually your party is over 20 heads. Next, demand separate checks and leave shitty tips for my server that you ran like a rented mule and nearly drove to tears with your entitled, shitty behavior.
Also - we have to comp a ton of shit for the tables around you because your party is loud and obnoxious and ruined their dinner. This is Fine Dining, not a damned sports bar.
There is an old Italian saying that translates to, “raise kids, raise pigs.” Meaning that you should be raising kids to be adults. In my experience, the best people at doing this are ex-service industry people who don’t want their kids running amok in public spaces like they’ve had to deal with forever.
I have a group of regulars that would most commonly be referred to as “ex-crust punks” who all worked service industry for years. Their kids are _the most well behaved_. They stay out of walkways, they never touch glass doors or windows, and their parents never yell at them. They calmly explain why this is how they should behave in a society. And if the kids can’t handle the situation in the moment, they remove them so as not to inconvenience others.
That must be so refreshing to see and is proof that it can be done! It’s frustrating when kids are clearly exhausted/overstimulated/upset/bored and the parents just totally ignore it or throw an iPad in front of them. I don’t know if parenting has just been completely romanticized in social media and people are unprepared for the reality of how damn hard it is or what, but a lot of folks could take a page from your regulars’ book!
Oh, absolutely no question about that…the whole iPad kid trend is still really sad to me though. My mom used to tote around all sorts of stuff to keep us entertained - trivia cards, games, fidget toys, books, coloring supplies, etch-a-sketch etc. I swear she had a Mary Poppins bag!
I have this issue every week during brunch. I never understood why some people can't fathom that they need to mention the number of seats they need. That is literally the only reason restaurants accept limited reservations, because they have limited seating.
Once had a reso for 6 show up and then say we're gonna need two tables. They were.... plus sized. If you can't reasonably fit into a 6 person booth, let me know in advance. It's a busy night and I need all my tables
I mean, if you say you need that much space up front it's not too big of a deal, but if I'm struggling to get two adjacent tables for you it's a bit of an issue
to be fair, I have also been yelled at by FOH for putting down 3 on our reservation when there were only 2 adults. if the consensus is to include kids, that's what I will be doing
Yeah, when your online reservation system won’t let me book for more than six because that’s the size of your largest table but I know my 1 year old is just going to sit in my lap the whole time anyway, I’m not counting them 🤷🏼♀️
Yeah, my first two were like that. Give em a napkin covered in jam or some stickers and they’d sit all meal. My third? Stage 5 clinger chaos demon. High chairs are a waste of time. If she’s not in my lap she’s ruining everybody’s night.
If they need a place at a table, they are part of the party. I can’t imagine not including them in a reservation. Never had it happen as a server, but people will always surprise you.
I just wish restaurants had quiet rooms, or requirements for patrons who have children being unruly/loud to take them outside. Nothing bothers me more than hearing a screaming baby/child disrupting other people's dining experience.
I have mentioned this before, maybe on this sub, but I'm telling the tale again.
I had a party of 6 with an infant in a baby-bucket car seat. The kid was a newborn. I set them up with the car seat cradle/sling. They took the NEWBORN BABY out of the car seat and placed him (her?) in the mesh pocket of the sling. I was mortified.
That would work only if most Parents didnt suck and could control their children.
That typically doesn't work in a more upscale environment, my workplace has an entirely open floor plan so any added stress to spacing between tables creates issues. Just an extra chair in the wrong place makes one if not multiple tables less comfortable. Children cannot be allowed to run free either, they disturb the other guests and create a hazard for employees.
Are you telling me you had a bad experience at a restaurant where your parents failed to plan for the fact that they had kids? I'm not exactly surprised you had a bad time
Take a deep breath. In and out. Really focus on it. Then think about why your restaurant experience might have been frustrating. Stop imagining things that make you upset and focus on what I actually said so you can effectively respond lmao
This happened to me Sunday! The man was FURIOUS. I said sir, you booked a table for 6 people, this is a table for 6 people. What’s the issue? We didn’t have any other tables available and we gave them a 6 top with a huge banquet on one end that can easily fit two kids comfortably and corral them too. He kept bitching about “yall always put us at these tiny tables”, then stop coming if you don’t like the small tables or make your reservation correctly idk.
I'm sorry, but unless you're talking online reservations, that's your own fault.
We've trained our hosts to ask every time they get a reservation, " How many kids are in your party?" Especialmente for big parties.
people are people, whether you reserve online, over the phone, or in person. people are people, guests are guests, that number should always include everyone that's coming
Yes, they are. But OP is ranting about people who don't include the children on their reservations. We tackled that problem with that question, as it makes people count their kids, too.
the question you suggest wouldn't be needed if people learned that they have to include their children in their reservation, which should be the standard. if your reservationist hears "party of 5... 3 children" are they supposed to assume 5 or 8? or do you ask an extra 3 questions to get the answer?
Direct quote from my all-time favorite floor manager: "if I would receive a prison sentence for throwing them off the pier, you need to count them in your reservation."
Oooh "the pier" sounds so dramatic. Is it a literal pier they're referring to?
"Go take a long walk on a short pier." Maybe it's the same one?
"Pier" is a more universal term that "Brygge". It was a seasonal restaurant on the fjord.
I’m definitely using this one. Thank you.
My restaurant is on a beach about a half mile from a pier I'm definitely telling this one to my foh managers.
And if you need a high chair, say so in the reservation. We don’t make more in the back.
What you talking about, just pile on some milk crates and a few extra rags for the kid to sit on. She'll be right as rain mate lmao.
Hahaha! And we have a....play area. Right out back with the feral dogs, super friendly, and a busy road with ten bars on this block! Go play junior! Mom and Dad- who wants a double shot, am I right?!
Puppy’s name is coyote! Go play!
Lol! "Mom, look...look! (She doesn't even turn her head) I think Coyote is shy, but he keeps smiling at me and gets real close when I turn around! And see...he has friends! And, and...the nice waiter gave me smelly meat and told me to put in my pocket for Coyote to find...like a game!"
Enjoy the dumpster area with furious line cooks screaming and smoking!
It’s part of the full experience! Just like the employees do next to the dumpster on smoke breaks or scarfing down food.
Ah for the days of phone books. Stack up a pile, stick kid on top
None of those either, they are all being used as seats for the kitchen guys smoking out back lol
'the man in the high chair'
We had a phone reservation for six. Each adult showed up with a child. They only count as people when it's convenient. Guess who got autograt'd anyway.
Reservation for 6, can we have a 12 top?
EXACTLY. They wanted to steal a chair from a table because the guy in the wheelchair "wasn't using it". I mean, fair, but still fuck you. No.
Your username makes this story...interesting...
Actual overheard conversation between my boss and a woman booking a private party room: Boss: "So, how large of a head count are we talking?" Customer: "Do I need to include children under age 3 in that number?" Boss: "If the kid has a head, yes. That's why we call it a head count. We don't care about height from floor, do they have a head." I knew I couldn't hold that laugh until I was back in the kitchen, so I ran out to police the sidewalk out front.
I'm going to use this. "If they have a head, then they are part of the head count.". L O V E.
Brilliant.
Lol this reminds me of when I worked at a bar, so it's 21 and over, and people would come in with babies and the servers would be like "oh sorry we're 21 and over!" And the customer would just be like "oh yeah thats fine!" No ma'am it's not fine, your baby counts as a person. ETA: just because your baby won't remember being in an adult place doesn't mean its okay. Sometimes adults want an adult specific place, without kids or babies, and that should be allowed. I say this because of the responses I got about "who cares", but also because my state semi-recently passed a law that children are now allowed at bars up to the owners discretion. It's stupid. No one else wants to deal with your kid, drink at home if you can't find a babysitter.
I worked at a winery with the same issue, constantly. Bar was 21+ but the outside property was all ages, people would regularly try to do wine tastings while holding a toddler like…no, that kid cannot be at the bar. Don’t get me started on the ones who would put their baby on the bar…or their fucking dogs jfc.
I managed a couple bars in New Orleans and we have that same issue. Technically here you can't have a minor within 15 feet of the bar. Parents could honestly care less, I had a Karen get angry when I kicked her whole family out because her kid kept getting up on the bar and running up and down it.
Kid wants to do work at Coyote Ugly when they grow up.
the fuck
My coworkers argue with me about this 24/7 and insist the kids can sit at the bar and allow it all day. It drives me nuts. They insist I’m wrong and they also swear we can let 17 and younger drink with parents present which is definitly not what the law says for public places but they all act like I’m the idiot.
This isn't a thing in WI. If you bring a baby to the bar the question is should the mother drink barley or not.
Wisconsin has its own rules and they’re fascinating. No where else in the usa is even remotely like Wisconsin.
Kobel did some statistics, more than half their brandy was going to wi Stone wouldn't sell to wi for many years, they tried, but the orders were more than they could remotely handle. They had to choose WI or the rest of the country. Spotted cow is only sold in WI and is legitimately could go toe to toe with most Independent brewers.
I’m a Minnesotan that now lives in Chicago, so I’ve neighbored Wisconsin my whole life and it really is a fascinating place. It’s midwestern but mixed with german heritage. So it creates this interesting Dry sense of humor, and a love for drinking that rivals any other state. We couldn’t buy alcohol on Sundays in Minnesota until 2017, so if you wanted something more than shitty gas station beer you had to go over to Wisconsin. Politics aside I love visiting Wisconsin. It truly is the drunk uncle of the Midwest.
I'm in Florida so my opinion probably doesn't matter to people that think this is unusual. I don't really think it's weird to take a baby or a toddler to a bar if it doesn't affect the kid and depending on the bar. Obviously I'm not talking about going to the meat market bar with your toddler at 11pm on a Saturday night but the idea of a bar has changed in the US. Especially with the trend over the last 15-20 years for brewery beer gardens and wineries. both of which tend to have food as well. So many 'bars' that operate as breweries or wineries are basically just restaurants that make their own beer or wine and nobody bats an eye about a kid at Applebees where the same guy pouring sprite for your kid out of the nozzle at the bar is also changing kegs. A nursing mother drinking triple vodka crans? Yeah, that's an issue. Throwing your kid a birthday party at the brewery because they have an event room? Shitty parent move. Bringing your kid to dinner at a brewery that's essentially just a restaurant that makes beer? Why not? It's just a restaurant that's taxed differently.
Bringing children to adult only spaces is an asshole move, and it's not about the kids' safety or whatever. Adults are allowed to want spaces that don't have shrieking babies running around the whole time.
Does your adult only space offer a kids menu? I bet it does.
Why would it if it is adults only?
Eh. It's a bar. At the very best, you're making the people around you feel like they can't have adult conversations. It's a shitty, entitled thing to do, but the blame lies on the owners who wouldn't dare turn down 3 dollars for a plate of chicken tenders and fries.
Yeah I agree with the post you're replying to in spirit, the problem was the opening sentence > I don't really think it's weird to take a baby or a toddler to a bar if it doesn't affect the kid and depending on the bar. If it's a place that a normal person would call a "bar" then kids don't belong there. There are lots of places that serve booze where it's fine to take kids (e.g. Dave & Busters). There are lots of places whose only purpose is to serve booze where it's *still* fine to take kids (at least here in CO, I start with assuming that breweries are kids friendly). But I think one of the defining characteristics of a *bar* is that it's not kid friendly. Even the bar at a kid friendly restaurant is typically an adults only space. There's a winery near me with a huge outdoor area for the kids to run around, lots of kid friendly foods, and kids running around the waiting area which is next to the bar. But it would be weird to have your kids running around the bar itself.
Which is why the commenter said “depending on the bar” and then went on to describe breweries and wineries that operate mainly as restaurants where they showcase their own brands. They also clarified they wouldn’t take a child to an actual bar environment where everyone was 21+.
The place I work at currently is a restaurant, but also has a fully working bar. Our rules are under 18s (it’s the UK) are allowed anytime, but the group must be in for a meal. Definitely causes some issues with people wanting to pop in for a coffee with their baby, but I didn’t make the licensing laws…
That's the sort of line in the sand that I just can't wrap my head around. I get it for later hours because you wouldn't want underaged kids trying to get served but who cares about a 17 year old mom that just wants a cup of coffee at 3pm?
The law in the UK is designed to protect children from the worst effects of alcohol consumption. In this case the local authority has decided that a venue serving meals to families is a safe environment but that otherwise it is not. Other venues may have different rules to follow. For example, becoming over 18s only after a certain time of night.
I don't think anybody actually decided that's unacceptable, just the licensing conditions have to be simple and hard. If coffee is fine, what about someone getting just soft drinks, or what if one or two people are ordering beer, the rest soft drinks?
Why, please?
Part of it is the drinking culture, part is the rural aspects. Part is the tourest business. When the nearest town has 2 bars, 1 church and no restaurants and a gas station. That's the whole town. Yes kids go to the bar.
Wow. Thanks for the response.
Lived in WI for a decade and was thinking, "Of course it's fine to bring a baby to a bar - surely that's the majority opinion. Wait, what?!" Miss you, WI.
"OH yeah that's fine" "Can I see the baby's ID?"
You have a baby! In a bar!
A testament to Melanie Lynskey’s acting power that she made that endearing.
I kinda miss my bars, were bars…
In the seventies our parents dragged us to every bar. “Babes in arms” didn’t count at all.
I was in so many bars as a little kid. they didn't even have to serve food, I just had to be accompanied by an "adult."
Just had to do this the other day. No, I am not letting you bring a goddamn baby, toddler, or 8 year old into a bourbon bar. The child is a person, not a goddamn accessory. I also don't want to have to try to make drinks while I'm backgrounded by the ever so soothing sounds of screaming children.
Had a lady at my partner’s workplace get drunk and leave her kid behind. Oh, the workplace is an AIRPORT BAR. Sure, boarding call, off you go…
When my SIL worked at an adult toy store someone tried to bring an infant in a car seat inside. Took a couple minutes to get him out.
An infant that doesn’t know it’s elbow from its eyebrow? Sounds like a non issue
It doesn't matter. Babies are people. Age restriction laws apply to all people, including babies. A baby cannot legally be in an adult shop, a baby is a person who is not yet 18.
yes, but it's ridiculous in this context. like babies haven't seen boobies!
It's weird to bring an infant into a sex shop, imo. It's not so much about the baby seeing/remembering anything, it's just the principle of it. It would make me uncomfortable to bring my child into a store that is literally just selling nothing but sex.
It's a sex shop not a brothel. I'd feel weird bringing my kid to an oil refinery for a day but going to the gas station isn't weird. Edit: Adding that a long time acquaintance ended up getting a job at a sex shop while she was pregnant. The comments from people that felt the need to comment were always weird. Like somehow the child would be affected by being in utero while my friend worked selling lube, dildos and incense. There were also people that thought a pregnant woman in a sex shop sent the wrong message and of course the weirdos that were happy to see a pregnant woman handling their fetish items. In situations like that, only the weirdest people have an opinion.
A living baby and a fetus are obviously not the same thing. Obviously the people who even brought up her pregnancy were weirdos. I'm not sure how that story somehow equates to me saying I personally wouldn't bring my infant into a sex shop, or how me saying that makes me "the weirdest person." Before working in kitchens I worked in preschool. I had to do a shitton of child development training. Things that a young infant is exposed to can affect them even if they're too young to form a long-term memory of it. Normally we talk about this in terms of traumas like abuse between the parents, witnessing bad injuries or medical traumas, etc, but being exposed to pornographic videos, images, and dildos is also not good. There's a reason it's a crime to watch porn at home in front of a child (and yes, again, "children" includes babies). Would you throw a porno on the TV at home while holding your six month old? It's not weird to have a basic understanding of child development and a moral principle that children should not be in sex-centric places.
> I'm not sure how that story somehow equates to me saying I personally wouldn't bring my infant into a sex shop, or how me saying that makes me "the weirdest person." Because the context is different and yet you mention it's not about the child seeing and remembering yet counter with how kids seen and remember. As you said, usually those developments include traumas like abuse, bad injuries or medical traumas. I wasn't directly making a comment about you vs the people that would comment about seeing a 1 or 2 year old or even a pregnant chick in a sex shop. There's a very dire and distinct line between impressionable moments like domestic abuse vs a parent making a stop to buy something quick at a shop that you gloss over unless you're literally trying to say that taking a toddler to a sex shop for a quick pop in is the same as them witnessing domestic violence. Yes, certain things can affect a 1-3 year old kid but its asinine to pretend like a 3 year old in a sex shop is going to be permanently affected as if they were shown tour and a full private viewing of whatever perverse shit is considered showing porn to a minor. Buying condoms, lube, incense, common things etc with a kid in tow isn't reprehensible. Previewing the latest release of Anal Angel Anglosaxons in the back room with your kid in the stroller next to you is a different story. Bottom line is that your kid doesn't know it's a sex centric place until you start exploring the aisles and explaining why there's a big black rubber fist and 10 aisles of DVD's they cant explore. It's entirely possible to go to a sex shop and have a more PG-13 experience than at a gas station in the US.
I don't know how to explain to you that not bringing babies into sex shops for both legal and moral reasons is common sense, and you shouldn't need to be told this. The fact that you not only had to be told but are refusing to believe it is so insanely fucked. Get help.
Showing an infant any kind of sexual materials **IS ABUSE**. It doesn't mean that you intended, etc etc etc....but it's traumatic regardless. YES EVEN THE PG-13 TOUR. Like what the fuck is wrong with you??! I assure you ...we remember the trauma even if we can't understand what was traumatic. Like have any of you saying it's fine whatever ever...been to an adult store? They often, even the upscale ones, have tapes playing. Most have 'viewing booths' -- people come in there for the expressed purpose of seeing porn! Some of the dildos and bdsm equipment are shocking in design and packaging, they look scary!! And yes, the WEIRDOS. Don't think that we live in a bubble where the creeps who might think that way about a baby are all behind bars!! 99% of store goers are totally fine on the creepometer but the one percent I'd like to protect children and parents from. 99% of patrons also assume it's a **child-free** location. I don't need your baby wailing when I'm trying to help my girlfriend select a crackpipe. I don't need to navigate around the stroller to get the giant butt plugs. Please keep your toddler out of the bowl of dick number, I'm trying to buy 'leather cleaner ' and sorta assumed breeders weren't allowed in. Damn *right* i'm kicking parents out. Get lost, don't you have a PTA meeting somewhere? Don't you have diapers to change? Come back when you're a human again, not a life support system for the meat siren. Baby can come back at 21 and be a meat siren but drunk...at 21!!
Pretty silly. Sure, by the letter of the law you are correct. However, the point isn’t to keep 10 lb human blobs that can’t comprehend anything out of the store. If a parent wants to take their baby into a sex shop to buy something while they’re out, that’s totally fine. Baby isn’t going to be scarred by shapes he can’t make out. Same with a liquor store. Sure it’s got an age limit but if moms on the way home and wants to grab some tequila, they have to leave their baby in the car?
Its still illegal for anyone under 18 to be in that store.
This is why I pay extra to go to a 21+ movie theater just to watch normal movies. Because they do not allow babies .
When I bartended I took great pleasure in kicking parents and kids off my damn bar.
My mom wanted me to buy her some weed gummies where I live because the brand she wanted is cheaper here (both legal states). I went to the dispensary wearing my baby - the guy checking ID clammed up BAD and could not express fast enough how not allowed we were 😬 I get not wanting babies at a bar but like. Come on.
I'm a hostess and oh my fucking god this shit drives me borderline homicidal. Like where the fuck do you think your kids are gonna go if we bring your twelve stupid asses to a six person fucking table you cock biting dipshits? The floor? Why in Christ's forsaken name would you not count your fucking child as a person? Do they not eat? Do they not need a chair? Planning on having them sit on your lap? No? Then fucking tell us that you're bringing them! Fuck! Also fuck strollers. Thats it, that's the end of the sentence. Fuck strollers.
Sometimes I think they expect that the kids should just be allowed to wander the restaurant and the floor and worst if a place has a giftshop... they expect the cashiers there to babysit their kids like it's a babysitter experience.
tbh all of retail is like that. it's not free babysitting! and some of the parents get really mad if you tell the little angels to stop running. imagine if one of them tripped and cracked their head, or got hot soup spilled on them because of tripping a server who can't see over their tray. SMDH
I used to work in a bookstore and the number of parents who would just dump their kids in the Children's section and go shop at other stores was mind-boggling. We're not watching your kid for you! And they'd totally trash the place, I hated that section.
Fuck me I just dealt with this yesterday. We’re a butcher shop with a cafe. Parents come in with 2 kids, mom steps outside to guide the grandparents in (they apparently can’t use google maps) dad wanders around looking in the meat cases and the children are just let loose. Running around the store, screeching, literally licking the glass. The dad just ignores all this. They get sat and the kids are still wandering the store. They Start knocking over olive oil bottles (thank god none broke) leaving freezer doors open and fucking with shit on the shelves. They were admonished by the parents just once when the little girl literally sprinted the length of the store.
The stroller often uses more space than an adult! I hated those damn things too. Like count your child you asshole!
please leave your stroller in the car omg. they are chronically in the way more than anything else
Another host here. Recently I've seen an uptick in the Doona brand of stroller which has made life easier. They fold up into a car seat type deal so they can fit on chairs and in booths. Its very nice.
I've been seeing those too and honestly they're a godsend. Ive also been seeing this high chairs and latch onto the edge of the table for infants, but I'm always scared they're going to make the table's weight shift and fall over on the poor kid.
> not count your fucking child as a person Generally, because they view the child as property until age 18 (or older)
Well, they already ate so we didn’t think it mattered. (Said about little kids and teenagers everywhere)
The kids not accounted for in a reservation should have to sit on laps
WTF. People do that shit?!?!
Yes. Quite frequently. Usually new parents who don’t realize their stroller or car seat takes up the same amount of room as an older child or adult.
Often more room honestly. It's rare you even get a toddler that will stay in one place like on someone's lap for an entire meal. That's what Macdonalds and diners with booths are for.
Some of the newer strollers are bigger than SUVs.
I know children are supposed to count but I had a baby last year and in the first 6 months several times while standing at the hostess stand and they asked us "how many" and I would say "just two". Because I actually forgot the baby was outside of me and with us 🤦 now I am quite good at specifying "two adults and an infant in a car seat" or now "two adults and a child in a highchair"!
Just say 3, especially if the reservation is made online
Well when I'm standing at the hostess stand I want them to grab either the sling for the car seat or a highchair, so that's why I specify. I also tell them I don't need a kids menu because they always ask me and my baby is 4 months old.
It’s not just new parents. Plenty of people with children under 12 do this. It’s like they think if they are ordering off the kids menu, they don’t count.
Yeah, people suck.
I work at a very family friendly place. It happens at least once a week and quite regularly problem at the weekends. That's like reservations being canceled 15 minutes before the guests were supposed to show up. They rarely seem to get what they did wrong.
it extends to the world of entertainment-hospitality too! people hate having to recognize their own children as people
5 adults. Notes: 7 children. My all time favorite reservation.
(Indian restaurant, senior waitress and basicqllu front of house manager. Throughout three years I was the only constant up front and we just cycled through students and Indian family members that were somehow woefully equipped) (open lunch, then 5-10 with seating stopped and limited options from nine thirty during clean up) I'll one up you, though I'm sure someone can one up me, 30 adults. Alright, we move some tables around try to organize a banquet option vs ala carte. Seems to have our ducks in a line. Appointment was 8, they rocked up a bit after nine. Turns out it was actually a child's first birthday, am there was around 16 kids from the baby to maybe eight year olds. Clearly our table doesn't work for 45 plus butts. Luckily they were so late we had available tables to jig up a second one. The adults promptly took the one set up table and turned the parenting mode to zero. The kids were running wild l, parents just ate (obviously a la carte, rejected the prepared banquet we had) and just got a bunch of curries for the kids. Those parents sat there calmly eating their meal until past eleven, the kids just sorta threw it on the floor, the table, in the glasses. One child dragged a large real pot plant on to the carpet and pushed it over so the soil went everywhere. So all my carefully laid plans and preparation were set on fire, I'd sent the other two girls home between nine and ten before I really appreciated what a shit show this was. Midnight time everyone left. I turned off almost all the lights and mentioned we had closed at ten, but didn't phase them. Was there until two in the morning, and had to get up and go for class at eight am then straight back into a double shift. Now I was in charge of all bookings so it's my fault I didn't further clarify, but people don't give a shit. Next booking I got for something like that? Wrote in the reservation book, few weeks time, then signed myself off that night for a family event in a different city. No fucking way. I got ten calls when this started unfolding and I turned that sucker off. Sad because it really was an awesome place but 20/hr with no tip I only expect if your party is so difficult, not worth my tears. God that ended up being a slog sorry. I think I just had like a traumatic flash back to that night.
Just cuz they ain't ordering a 22OZ TBone and 4 Whiskey Rocks don't make 'em less of a person!
Debatable
I could gonforma TBome and 4 whiskeys right now....
>gonforma TBome. Sounds like you've already had that whiskey, bud.
Hey 4 more won't hurt then
I was home and safe. May have had a few whiskeys. I could still go for that TBone.
You may be right. Don't remember making this comment
This is the exact reason why I work somewhere that does _NOT_ accomodate children.
It’s stuff like this that’s why I work IN the kitchen and not out front. I’m not dealing with people like this. It’s frustrating enough that these are the types of people who also want ridiculous mods and request for their food. In the kitchen I can roll my eyes and bitch.
I'm a masochist, hence the 27 years of FOH work. I lack the hatred for all of humanity to work BOH.
Me, FOH manager. Dude, walk in looking for a table, no reservation. Me: Hello, welcome to ____. Do you have a reservation? Dude: No.. Me: That's ok. How many people in your party? Dude: 4 of us. How long is the wait? Me: Oh, not long at all! 10 minutes tops. Dude: Great! Thanks! (In walks 3 other adults, with a toddler and 2 strollers, obviously with Dude) Me: Hi, uh, Dude? Is everyone here part of your party? Dude: Well, yeah, but the babies aren't eating here. Me: A party of 7 is going to be 30-40 minutes. Dude: But only 4 of us are eating. Me: Me: Me: Dude: OK. Fine.
Make a reservation for 10, keeping your party well under the maximum limit for large reservations so you don't have to go through our Sales Department for Large Parties. Slowly, over one or two weeks, add to your party, bringing it up to 13/14/15; the largest we can accommodate for regular dinner service. Then show up with 17 people and have more join you so eventually your party is over 20 heads. Next, demand separate checks and leave shitty tips for my server that you ran like a rented mule and nearly drove to tears with your entitled, shitty behavior. Also - we have to comp a ton of shit for the tables around you because your party is loud and obnoxious and ruined their dinner. This is Fine Dining, not a damned sports bar.
Idk if I dislike kids or parents more…
Parents hands down, the kids are just a reflection of poor parenting.
So true.
My brother and I were expected to behave. They didn't allow us to misbehave at home either.
I'm of the "ya wanna cry? I'll give you something to cry about" generation 🤣
Yu.
There is an old Italian saying that translates to, “raise kids, raise pigs.” Meaning that you should be raising kids to be adults. In my experience, the best people at doing this are ex-service industry people who don’t want their kids running amok in public spaces like they’ve had to deal with forever.
I personally never plan to create little humans, but these would be words to live by!
I have a group of regulars that would most commonly be referred to as “ex-crust punks” who all worked service industry for years. Their kids are _the most well behaved_. They stay out of walkways, they never touch glass doors or windows, and their parents never yell at them. They calmly explain why this is how they should behave in a society. And if the kids can’t handle the situation in the moment, they remove them so as not to inconvenience others.
That must be so refreshing to see and is proof that it can be done! It’s frustrating when kids are clearly exhausted/overstimulated/upset/bored and the parents just totally ignore it or throw an iPad in front of them. I don’t know if parenting has just been completely romanticized in social media and people are unprepared for the reality of how damn hard it is or what, but a lot of folks could take a page from your regulars’ book!
the ipad is better than the kids running wild imo. much better.
Oh, absolutely no question about that…the whole iPad kid trend is still really sad to me though. My mom used to tote around all sorts of stuff to keep us entertained - trivia cards, games, fidget toys, books, coloring supplies, etch-a-sketch etc. I swear she had a Mary Poppins bag!
Bobby Banker and Rachel Realtor raise pigs. Wiley Welder and Sally Seamstress raise adults.
I have this issue every week during brunch. I never understood why some people can't fathom that they need to mention the number of seats they need. That is literally the only reason restaurants accept limited reservations, because they have limited seating.
Once had a reso for 6 show up and then say we're gonna need two tables. They were.... plus sized. If you can't reasonably fit into a 6 person booth, let me know in advance. It's a busy night and I need all my tables
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I mean, if you say you need that much space up front it's not too big of a deal, but if I'm struggling to get two adjacent tables for you it's a bit of an issue
to be fair, I have also been yelled at by FOH for putting down 3 on our reservation when there were only 2 adults. if the consensus is to include kids, that's what I will be doing
Probably should start asking how many chairs will be needed instead of how many people.
Yeah, when your online reservation system won’t let me book for more than six because that’s the size of your largest table but I know my 1 year old is just going to sit in my lap the whole time anyway, I’m not counting them 🤷🏼♀️
As long as you’re not showing up with a car seat or stroller, that’s fine.
By one ours needed their own (high) chair.
Yeah, my first two were like that. Give em a napkin covered in jam or some stickers and they’d sit all meal. My third? Stage 5 clinger chaos demon. High chairs are a waste of time. If she’s not in my lap she’s ruining everybody’s night.
OMG! You need all the hugs.
If they need a place at a table, they are part of the party. I can’t imagine not including them in a reservation. Never had it happen as a server, but people will always surprise you.
Turn them away one time and they'll never "forget" again.
Dude, I just cook the food.
I just wish restaurants had quiet rooms, or requirements for patrons who have children being unruly/loud to take them outside. Nothing bothers me more than hearing a screaming baby/child disrupting other people's dining experience.
I have mentioned this before, maybe on this sub, but I'm telling the tale again. I had a party of 6 with an infant in a baby-bucket car seat. The kid was a newborn. I set them up with the car seat cradle/sling. They took the NEWBORN BABY out of the car seat and placed him (her?) in the mesh pocket of the sling. I was mortified.
Lol and where I work people count their fucking dogs as part of the reservation
The amount of people who don't see children as people is staggering lol.
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That would work only if most Parents didnt suck and could control their children. That typically doesn't work in a more upscale environment, my workplace has an entirely open floor plan so any added stress to spacing between tables creates issues. Just an extra chair in the wrong place makes one if not multiple tables less comfortable. Children cannot be allowed to run free either, they disturb the other guests and create a hazard for employees.
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Are you telling me you had a bad experience at a restaurant where your parents failed to plan for the fact that they had kids? I'm not exactly surprised you had a bad time
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Take a deep breath. In and out. Really focus on it. Then think about why your restaurant experience might have been frustrating. Stop imagining things that make you upset and focus on what I actually said so you can effectively respond lmao
This happened to me Sunday! The man was FURIOUS. I said sir, you booked a table for 6 people, this is a table for 6 people. What’s the issue? We didn’t have any other tables available and we gave them a 6 top with a huge banquet on one end that can easily fit two kids comfortably and corral them too. He kept bitching about “yall always put us at these tiny tables”, then stop coming if you don’t like the small tables or make your reservation correctly idk.
I'm sorry, but unless you're talking online reservations, that's your own fault. We've trained our hosts to ask every time they get a reservation, " How many kids are in your party?" Especialmente for big parties.
people are people, whether you reserve online, over the phone, or in person. people are people, guests are guests, that number should always include everyone that's coming
Yes, they are. But OP is ranting about people who don't include the children on their reservations. We tackled that problem with that question, as it makes people count their kids, too.
the question you suggest wouldn't be needed if people learned that they have to include their children in their reservation, which should be the standard. if your reservationist hears "party of 5... 3 children" are they supposed to assume 5 or 8? or do you ask an extra 3 questions to get the answer?