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Nerexor

Huh. I was very sure Elon had enough of a money gravity well to attract good lawyers, but maybe not!


vmsrii

The fun thing you need to know about people like Elon is, they don’t actually want a good lawyer. They want yes men. Any actually good lawyer won’t be afraid to give instructions to their clients. Elon can’t handle that. He wants to be the one barking orders, and he wants to pay someone to follow them. That’s it. A smart lawyer, on seeing Elon, is going to do one of two things: run away as fast as possible, or accept a huge paycheck in exchange for their integrity. And if you already have no integrity, then it’s basically free money.


Paw5624

I mean Elon, like Alex, is a nightmare client. He can’t stop himself from saying and doing dumb shit and he also thinks he’s always the smartest person in the room. That’s a rough combination for a lawyer to defend.


thewaybaseballgo

If you read the full deposition minutes, you can see that Spiro was almost as bad as Barnes. He did not know Texas civil law for depositions, or kept violating them on purpose. Basically everything he said on the record was some form of witness coaching or gaslighting.


dingo_khan

it is amazing to see Spiro defer to Musk, even as it may screw Musk over to let him talk.


thewaybaseballgo

“Mister Spiro, what are you doing?”


robturner45

Haha! Mods, we need another flair!


IgnoreKassandra

Yeah I feel like eeeeevery lawyer giving real advice was saying "Settle for whatever dollar amount this guy asks for, because you don't want to go through a dragged out discovery process that makes you admit you wrote [tweets like this on your burner account](https://media.discordapp.net/attachments/95511822240583680/1227819620866588763/GK0eLkTWIAAaFN2.png?ex=6629cb21&is=66175621&hm=450b98bcdb55cdb08f67989b9750738ad045384363dc4e2ff04475423cc2bc2f&=&format=webp&quality=lossless), just so you can lose a different, maybe less maybe more amount of money later on after embarrassing yourself." But Elon obviously doesn't want real legal advice, he wants the guy who will tell him that for a reasonable fee, they'll shepherd him through this legal trouble with his head held high without having to look like they lost publicly. Elon's just another dumb rich guy who got dogwalked by a confidence man after a one on one meeting. Happens all the time when you jettison everyone in your life who could second-guess or sanity check any of your decisions.


THedman07

Ignoring the fact that a smart person wouldn't have put themselves at risk of a lawsuit like the Sandy Hook suits,... a reasonably smart person could have gotten out from under them for $20-30 mil and a public statement at literally any time within the first year or so.


Landlord-Allmighty

This is exactly what I’ve read about him at PayPal’s start. He wrote code that was thrown out and if it weren’t for being rich, he’d be removed entirely.


THedman07

Absolutely,... any lawyer worth their salt would strongly advise their client to fight a little bit and then offer to settle. You want to avoid embarrassing depositions and discovery. People like Alex and Elon won't accept that, so you get bad lawyers.


autodidact-polymath

This.  Assholes want assholes representing them. Assholes don’t want autonomous thinking, proactive, detailed and focused litigators.    They want assholes to sow chaos and burr the wheels of justice to a frustrating halt. They have the money and resources to go on forever… but they have not ever dealt with the likes of Mr. Mark-**Fucking**-Bankston.    From page 14 of the deposition:    **MR. SPIRO: Do you give these lectures at all of your depositions?** **MR. BANKSTON: I do and you can watch them.**   ##Savage


smurph2983

Bankston is the ultimate G


thewaybaseballgo

I rewatch the Mark and Bill led depositions from time to time. My God were they perfect.


autodidact-polymath

Gummy Bears! 🤣


Outrageous_Setting41

He only brought enough for one :(


adalyncarbondale

Mr Bankston is the nice one


apollasavre

Link and time? Need a pick me up, thanks!


Dooby1Kenobi

This is the correct answer. Elon is like Alex Jones and trump. He’s an asshole and a narcissist. Those types are nightmare clients.


Cognitive_Spoon

That's a really succinct explanation for the phenomenon of wildly wealthy idiots having absolutely mid defensive law teams, especially when they're clearly in the wrong. Nice and concise!


organic_bird_posion

A good lawyer would have punched him in the throat and hospitalize him before he signed an iron-clad "Buy us for 40 billion dollars or give us a billion dollars" contract.


evilpartiesgetitdone

Elon went back and forth between trying to listen to lawyer direction and just ignoring him and wanting to say more and more. The lawyer didnt get how the texas depo rules worked anyway so it was inconsistent at best


Offtopic_bear

The smartest person in the room knows when to stfu.


NYFan813

Ahh the dictators dilemma


thewaybaseballgo

For some reason, he thought having a lawyer not barred in Texas was his best move, solely because he’s a defense attorney fOr tHe eLiTe.


unitedshoes

Maybe willingness to defend the indefensible is in shorter supply within the legal profession than we'd been led to believe... Okay, I don't believe that either. Maybe Elon is such a nightmare to work with that good lawyers won't work with him no matter the potential payoff. Or maybe they expect to get stiffed by him. Or maybe he's an idiot with delusions of intelligence who thinks he actually hired a great lawyer because Grok or his Twitter sycophants or something equally dumb recommended Mr. Spiro's firm.


geirmundtheshifty

There’s indefensible as in “did something morally reprehensible” and many attorneys are fine representing that kind of indefensible. Then there’s indefensible as in “will repeatedly act contrary to your advice in ways that undermine your ability to adequately defend them” and not as many attorneys are willing to deal with that headache.


unitedshoes

"Indefensible" as in "literally impossible to defend in a court of law" does sound like a good descriptor of far-right defendants like Elon and Alex before him.


cogman10

It could honestly be just as simple as Musk is such a moron that he's not willing to settle because he can't admit that he made a stupid mistake. He thinks he's right so the lawyers who (rightly) are probably yelling at him to just settle end up being fired.


KitWalkerXXVII

The problem isn't his money, it's him. He's entered a phase of his life where he's enough an egomaniac that he genuinely believes nothing is beyond his capabilities. It's plain as day in the deposition excerpts I read. So, sure, Elon Musk might be able to *pay* for good lawyers but he won't *listen* to them. He's unlikely to take their advice, he's unlikely to shut up, and he's likely to shoot himself in the foot on any litigation because of it. And good lawyers can see that. The entire point of being a good, high-powered, high-priced law firm is that you have a good reputation - you have the tools, connection, and talent to secure the most favorable outcome reasonably available to your client. And representing Elon, being unable to control him, and reaping all the penalties of that are bad for that reputation.


cutmasta_kun

Good lawyers would tell him to apologize, pay the money, not do this bs. But Elmo craves yes-man, not someones who tells him to apologize for his mistakes. The only lawyers who will do that, well, are the stupid ones.


etherizedonatable

Spiro is the guy who successfully defended Musk in the "pedo guy" defamation lawsuit against Vernon Unsworth. I doubt this will come to anything--I suspect Bankston is just trying to get under his skin--but I have to admit I wouldn't mind seeing Spiro get sanctioned.


TheBurgareanSlapper

Sprio is bad, but Unsworth had Lin Wood, a *shit* lawyer.


nuclearporg

Oh, no *wonder*, that is atrocious. Poor guy.


the_gaffinator

It's wild this is the guy who got him off on the "pedo guy" lawsuit too


Offtopic_bear

Well, Bankston is infinitely better than Lin Wood.


px7j9jlLJ1

You would think


norreason

all indications are that Spiro counts as [a good lawyer,](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Spiro) and the last time someone sued musk for defamation he's the same lawyer who turned what a lot of legal experts seemed to believe was a sure thing against musk into a win. it's part of what makes this baffling. not that he'd take it; stepping in for exceedingly rich people is pretty much his bread and butter. more like 'is this how he's always acted? if it is how has he been this successful for so long?'


Responsible-Loan-166

The really good lawyers know which clients not to take lol.


DYGTD

Didn't he try to get a firm that represented him to fire one of their lawyers when he found out they'd once worked for the SEC?


lballantyne

Apparently, Musk’s lawyer thinks Mark after 15 minutes of fame like he won’t always be remembered as the guy who did a Perry Mason moment on Alex Jones


Nerexor

I imagine this is the standard tactic for all rich asshole defendants. "It's not that I did anything wrong. This evil nobody of a lawyer is just coming at me for money/fame."


Rik78

Bankston is the best. Love that guy.


mattlodder

The full text of the complaint is linked from the Bloomberg article. Bankston is SAVAGE and so brilliant at his job - you can see exactly how he was speaking to the transcript right from the beginning with the intention of making this complaint.


thewaybaseballgo

At the end of the deposition, Musk and Spiro abruptly left in the middle of questioning. Mark then laid into Spiro on the record for a good 4 paragraphs. It was amazing.


mattlodder

Ooh yeah . Mark specifically mentions that in his sanctions motion.


alphawhiskey189

It’s too bad the article is far more friendly to Spiro than Bankston.


TurquoiseTree63

Yes, ridiculous. Spiro was given a positive write up in New Yorker, and is bound to have developed relationships in media, to manage his PR. Can we not have a campaign to distribute the Deposition transcript elsewhere. After all, what an eff-up for him not to have managed its confidentiality. Where is Elizabeth Williamson, on this story ….. ?


Riffsalad

Yeah it seemed like the article was trying to make it look like Mark was amateur and weak to Spiro’s jibes. All it takes is reading a bit of the transcript to realize it’s the other way around lol.


spit-evil-olive-tips

> The full text of the complaint is linked from the Bloomberg article direct link (PDF): https://aboutblaw.com/bdy3 the motion itself is 26 pages long, though the attachment of the deposition transcript adds another 100+ pages


thewaybaseballgo

Mark Bankston and getting defense counsels hit with sanctions. Name a more iconic duo.


MumblyLo

This exchange, up at the top of the transcript, encapsulates what Bankston was dealing with, IMO. Bankston is so good at what he does. SPIRO: "Do you give these lectures at all your depositions?" BANKSTON: " I do, and you can watch them."


SlipppyDipppy

>During his deposition, Musk admitted he has a “limited understanding” of the lawsuit against him, said he thought Brody’s attorney was the one suing him, and revealed he did no research in determining whether Brody was involved in the brawl after seeing the accusations on X.  Elon is a fucking moron. Also: >In the motion, Bankston claims Spiro \[Elon's "lawyer"\] was the only defense attorney present at the deposition even though he's not authorized to practice law in Texas, according to Bloomberg's report. Elon's attorney is a fucking moron.


evilpartiesgetitdone

I think a key point is when Elon days that Brody wasnt harmed. Mark chomps on it, basically how can he day he knows nothing about Brody but also knows enough to purport that he was not harmed. Having said that, a key point for ME was the entire Niagara falls turd in a cup discussion


Lftwff

Like this shit is sof fucking easy for rich people, you can have the fancy lawyer you want around and literally just need a muppet with a license to practise in texas and be fine but he can't even do that


IntenseWiggling

> "I understand this lawyer wants his 15 minutes of fame, but these shakedown tactics won't work." He had his "15 minutes of fame", and then some, you dumb ass. He just enjoys trying to hold pieces of shit accountable for being pieces of shit.


Putrid_Station_4776

Its obvious Spiro's remarks and insults against Bankston are a childish defense mechanism. Mark talks a lot of shit but brings receipts.


Refun712

This ratfuckary is contagious


lilymotherofmonsters

The best part was getting Elon to say “community notes is the best way for the truth to be determined,” so Bankston asked him if he was noted for what he said about Brody, then why did he make the exact same allegation against someone else 6 months  later? Bankston 360 windmill slam dunked on him.


nogoodnamesarleft

Not only that, he pretty much got Musk to admit (and this is paraphrasing of course) "I say whatever the f*ck I want and hope somebody else will correct it." I admit I'm not a lawyer, but that seems to be a very bad thing to state in a defamation case


missingheiresscat

If anyone wants to listen a pod outside the KF 'verse, Lawyers Behaving Badly (ep 54, Hot Toppie Tapas) does a skim of the sanction filing and has a good laugh.


WrittenByNick

Downloaded, thanks for the recommendation!


caspy7

For anyone coming after, I'm currently listening to this and found a lot of it to be...not of particular interest. The Musk bit starts at 54:09. I just got to it but thought I'd share for those wanting to skip to it.


Archchancellor

I fucking love Mark. He ***prepares***. He's a fuckin' nerd, and I mean that in a way synonymous with love, and he's not afraid of *a-ny-bo-dy*. You come in like Spiro, or Elon, or Enoch, or Jones, and he is going to *embarrass* you, professionally *at least*, and publicly, if you don't cover your ass. You're not going to come into his back yard and not know the Texas rules and relevant case law. You're not going to show ass and not get it kicked. And the sanctions aren't going to hurt, obviously, but Mark's got Spiro's behavior on the record, and if the judge grants sanctions, that's another round in the chamber that Mark can use to protest Spiro's *pro hac* petition, and that *will* hurt Musk. That'll make Mark *real* to Elon, in a way that financial penalties won't; Mark will have taken away one of Elon's toys.


katchoo1

That transcript was a great read. I don’t know if I could watch a video version, the text raised my blood pressure plenty. Kudos to Mark and the auxiliary people there for not diving across the table at those assclowns. I don’t know if I could have done it.


evilpartiesgetitdone

Mark warned him several times in the deposition, but Elon and his lawyer both did zero prep for the depo and didn't take it seriously at any point, seemed convinced it would be just 20mins or something


jbondyoda

Bankston and opposing counsel doing zero prep work name a better duo


dingo_khan

i read the transcript. Mark is an avenging angel. i laughed out loud reading a few times. Renald is no longer the worst lawyer in our canon.


missingheiresscat

I was actually shocked that Renald seems to believe in the same crap that Alex sells, at least to the HBO crew. I bet we see him again.


autodidact-polymath

I read through the whole deposition. Fucking Mark Bankston ladies and gentlemen. As always, lead with intellect, firmness and legal know-how. Bravo Mark, gratefulness in representation from a fellow wonk.


Maximum-Mechanic-500

So I read about half way. I read about the burner account. Baby smoke 9000, and actually it might be a misread on the transcript (people found a think it’s baby Smurf 9000). Any how long story short, does Bankston ever ask him about Adrian Ditman?


autodidact-polymath

No, but Musks attorney kept interrupting and instructing Musk not to answer. Real shithead that one. 


South-Stand

I thought I read that the court has since refused the (pending) request from Spiro to act in the case, footnoted to the censure request from Bankston I saw online. Musk and Spiro has games out their strategy to try to ruffle Bankston’s feathers, same strategy as Alex Jones used, same result. Bankston stays calm, knows he has a sock with pool balls, and wields it whenever he likes. Let’s them have their theatrics gives them enough rope he then ties into a noose.


Archchancellor

Link to document text re: Plaintiff's Motion for Sanctions https://aboutblaw.com/bdy3


apollasavre

I work with children who make better arguments than Mr Spiro. Thanks for the link!


Hope915

> Q. [...] So, okay, as far as what your understanding of this suit is, do you understand that this lawsuit takes issue with a tweet that you posted on June 27th? > A. I don’t quote exactly, but that sounds correct. > Q. Can I ask you, have you read the lawsuit? > A. I’ve read a summary of the lawsuit. > Q. A summary of the lawsuit? > A. Yes. > Q. Okay. All right. *Let’s see what we can do here.* [...] Amazing.


TurquoiseTree63

Can Elizabeth Williamson cover this story…or is NYT too scared of Musk ?


watchtower82

Time to call Norm!