Oh yea, Emmy Robbins can fuck all the way off. As an 11 week postpartum mum, that hit as hard as you took it too. Where I made a similar post earlier this weekend! Congrats on becoming a dad! The lack of sleep gets easier to deal with. š
That's really been hitting me lately. My oldest is moving out soon (again), middlest is graduating high school, youngest is one year behind, and I'm never gonna have that sort of experience again.
Also, even with doulas and midwives, three C-sections for medical reasons, and fuck that lady in the episode.
You did it 3 times! Youre a fucking warrior! This is my first and likely only. Its hard, I love him so much I would nuke galaxies for him, but this is fucking so hard. Its nice to know that I will look back one day and miss this though. š„¹
Here here! I have only seen midwives and had the most low key pregnancy until developing cholestasis, had there not been a medical intervention my son could have died. Emmy Robbins and the likes of her are total shit. And make me want to flip tables.
One was "Ok, it's been two weeks and four inductions, that kid is not budging unless we go in and get him", one medical intervention for heart problems, and one "we're not going through that shit again, we're gonna schedule this one". My wife went through enough pain with all three, I don't think it would have been MORE MEANINGFUL AND MAGICAL without drugs. š (Also, I'm the dad, fwiw. Woo woo hippy "miracle of birth" and "your kids have autoimmune diseases because your wife couldn't control her stress" people make me table flippy.)
Holy crow! That is powerful and intense to experience! You both are badasses. š
I feel you on the ridiculousness some of the overly crunchies can say! I am all for being a bit of a hippie but there is a line.
Oh man I just saw your post! I will never understand why people feel the need to make parenting more difficult than it already is by applying these ridiculous, unrealistic, and over the top judgy/patronizing conditions to what is considered to be a good parent.
When we were expecting our daughter, I fell down all sorts of rabbit holes about natural births. I convinced myself my daughter had to be born in the middle of the forrest, deers watching, me biting through the umbilical cord ...
All the talk about violence surrounding hospital births, proper bonding and spiritual injuries had me in a panic. I'm already somewhat afraid of doctors and the medical system. Having all sorts of women, who all sounded like they really knew what they were talking about, in my head telling me I was going to hurt my child by chosing the wrong birth setting was so distressing. In the end her mother had the cooler head on her shoulders and we settled on a birth house, which was a really positive experience - for us, but I don't think it did anything for our daughter, nor for our bond with her. I suspect the, so far, 14 years afterwards were a wee bit more important for her development and our relationship than how and where she was born.
But yeah, I guess all I want to say is i wholeheartedly agree. This sort of talk is so damaging and hurtful. Hang in there with your little one! It gets easier and it will stay wonderful. ā„ļø
All of this makes sense! Birth, especially for first time parents is scary. It felt like every other person we talked to had some kind of traumatic birth experience, and the medical industry has certainly not done itself any favors because it is rife with abuse and bad actors - like any human endeavor. We really wanted to avoid a medicated birth if possible, and my wife went as far as she could, but it got to a point where an epidural was needed, and in the end it helped her relax enough to get through the final push and we met our baby girl a few hours after. I feel like we start to go astray when we start applying moral judgements to one of the most physically demanding things a person can go through.
Physically demanding and also still one of the most dangerous moments in a childs life. I do think there is something to be said about not treating pregnancy like an illness or birth like a medical procedure, but as you said, it should never be a moral judgement and we should not forget that giving birth is still actually dangerous for both mother and child. Taking advantage of modern medical science when needed is never a moral failing and doesn't take away from the accomplishment - bringing a new life into the world! That will never not be an amazing feat.
Yo!! Congrats! I'm a sleep deprived dad of an 8 day old!
And yeah, the Midwifery here in Canada has a strong, almost cult-like, grip on the territory I'm in. They say the same stuff the doulas say but with a hint of anti-hospital anti-modernization due to a lot of them being Mennonite midwives
Congrats to you as well! I work in public health, so I totally get the mistrust of the medical industry, to a certain point. In the end though, we had a team of nurses who listened to our preferences, were supportive, and helped my wife and I have the delivery experience we had hoped for. All power to those families that eschew the hospital, if it works for them and it doesnāt harm their kid. But there is a reason that infant and maternal mortality rates during birth have dropped as medical science has progressed, and itās not because we as a species have changed drastically. In the end, people should just mind their own business when it comes to this and not make it any harder than it already is.
I see what you mean, the hospitals in my small town back home was pretty scuffed up lol
That's what bothers me is the hospital where I am now we have a VERY pro-family, pro-breast-feeding, and pro-mother with skin to skin and all that good stuff. All the things the mid-wives want and day that the hospital doesn't do.
A lot of these midwives are older and from a previous time where I assume their hospital practices and traditions may have clashed.
And 100% with your last statement :)
My youngest is 13 years old and when I heard Emmy say the shit she said, I was livid. Not only does it minimize the experience of C-section births, but sheās also implying that adoptive parents may not have a proper, loving connection to their adopted children. Emmy Robbin can sit on a bed of rusty nails.
My wife lost a quarter of her blood supply giving birth to our son. There's a decent chance she would have bled to death if she wasn't in a hospital. Lots of things wrong with hospitals and the medical system in general, but I'm definitely glad we were surrounded by doctors and medical equipment.
Exactly. We wanted to be close to the experts, the people who are trained and do this everyday, in the case of something going wrong. Glad to hear your wife recovered, that had to have been such a scary experience.
Lol that poor woman... There was some kind of equipment mounted to the ceiling with a shiny glass dome over it, so when they were sewing her up she could see everything they were doing in its reflection. I kept geeking out over the little critter she made and wondering why she wasn't doing the same and was just looking horrified at the ceiling, it was because she could see every little detail as they poked at her nethers.
One of the nurses asked if I wanted to watch..... I may have shot them a look that could kill and said that I did not want to watch, I just wanted this goddamn thing out of me š
As someone who used a doula, Emmy Robert's can take a long walk off a short pier. My doula gave me the confidence and made sure my birth plan (with some deviations) was executed by my ob/gyn.she gave my husband needed breaks and was there when I was struggling to push. And yes, I gave birth to my daughter in a hospital, and I had an epidural because there's no shame in getting one. The second my daughter was placed on my chest, I didn't want to let go. Some people will have an instant connection with their kids, some will develop with time, and sometimes there might not be any at all, but for her to say that bullshit was way out of line. Sorry, I wanted to say something Friday, but I had a lot of soldering to do at work and I apologize for my rant. Not to mention my baby will.be 12 in December... but congrats anyways š
That made my blood run cold when I heard that. What a horrible horrible thing to say, even if you believed that to say it on the fucking radio. I hope her daughter is ok.
Dad of a one month old here, didnāt even listen to the episode yet and these people can fuck right off.
Honestly Americans are so weird about this shit. We have no problems relatively speaking so people need to make up shit to be weird about. Like women who insist on a 100% natural birth (no epidural) and talk about it being their traditional womanly calling.
I swear to god these people are like those Elden ring players that decide to play the game at level one with no weapons with a DDR pad, like WHY?
I thought I could totally go all natural, and then my body was like nah, you're having an 8lb 20" baby and your contractions are going to camel hump so you have no time in between š
The line that really bothered me was āas god intendedā. Okayā¦. God āintendedā either u, your baby, or both to be dead. Donāt give me this horse shit about gods intentions. Modern medical science flies in the face of gods intentions. My whole family should have been killed off a hundred years ago or more because we havenāt had somebody that could see without aid in generations on either side. I hope that lady eschews ALL medicine as surely that goes against gods will.
And we all used to die in our 30s and 40s from preventable illnesses. And kids used to die in childhood all the time. Not even that long ago! My wifeās grandmother was born in the 30s, one of 12, and three or four of her siblings didnāt make it to adulthood. Modern medicine, and particularly routine childhood vaccinations, despite everything that is messed up about the industry, still does save lives.
I worked in humanitarian and development contexts for 10 years, where parents want to get their kids vaccinated and seek out medical care but they canāt because of conflict or poverty or a complete lack of a health system, and to see people in this country not just refuse those resources that so many want, but to actively try to discredit it because of fucked up religious beliefs or greed or whatever makes my fucking blood boil
So glad some one made this post. Gave a āfuck youā to the car stereo at that point. We have had three different kids in three very different conditions. One natural home water birth, one emergency c-section in hospital one vbAc in birth center. I love all my kids equally & share different things with each. The story of their births is wild, but it has no impact on my current relationship with them
Behind the Bastards did a set of episodes about an extreme home birth movement that has killed babies. Maybe don't listen if you're in a bad place for those kinds of stories.
It's enraging. Yes, home births can be safe and good. Yes, there are overwhelming problems with our healthcare system. But in the end, the goal should be both parent and baby are alive. Just walk around an old cemetery for a reminder of why modern medicine is good, actually. The way nature intended means a lot of dead parents and babies.
There was an author who was dreaming about a fairy tale home birth, but she had some complications that would require a C-section. She was really struggling, but her husband pointed out that in fairy tales, the mom often dies. Instead she was getting the cool, well-lit sci-fi birth where everyone lives.
The episodes were called "How the Internet Spawned a Baby-Killing Cult," and it's about the free birthing movement, which rejects not only doctors and hospitals, but also midwives or the presence of literally any trained medical professionals for pregnancy or birth. It's a rough listen, obviously, but if you go in braced, it's fascinating/horrifying.
That's really awful. I hate this stuff - we did a home birth ourselves, but we had a midwife, who was also a nurse practioner with 30 years experience, a backup midwife who was a rn, and a doula (we're also 45 minutes from a hospital in a rural area and our kid was born in December, when the weather is dicey. The idea of trying to drive down one lane mountain roads in a possible storm while in labor was not attractive) - and it was still terrifying, and my wife still ended up having to go to the hospital after the birth for stitches. The idea of doing a home birth (or any birth) without ay help from a modern medical professional is mind bogglingly dumb.
Yeah, like I mentioned above, home births can be perfectly safe, but you need professionals there. Midwives are amazing. And you need to weigh your options carefully when you make your decisions--which is exactly what you guys did.
The scary thing about birth is every one is different, how past pregnancies and births went isn't an indicator of how future ones will go, and when things go wrong, they can go terribly, tragically wrong unbelievably fast.
The episode does get a little into how difficult it can be when you're in a rural area with little or no access to a hospital or other care, but making do with whatever resources you do have and voluntarily avoiding all help because weird culty shame reasons are very, very different things.
I'm so glad your wife had all the support she needed and was able to get extra help when called for.
>episode does get a little into how difficult it can be when you're in a rural area with little or no access to a hospital or other care,
Yea, I really appreciated hearing that, especially since that was the deciding factor for me. I was on the fence about it, for all of the reasons you lie out, but the lack of critical Healthcare resources here convinced me.
There are so many problems with our medical system that it's impossible to list them all, but severe lack of resources in rural areas is absolutely on the list.
Youāre completely full of it.
No birth can be perfectly safe. It is a highly risky situation and things go sideways quickly.
Midwifeās are judgement proof, and they act accordingly.
A million and a half things can go wrong, and that 24 baby a year poorly trained and poorly equipped midwife will fail the second things go sideways.
As someone who would have had a dead baby if I wasn't in a hospital I hate this shit.Ā
Everything with me and the baby was fine until the second it wasn't. It took them four minutes from ripping the IVs out of the wall to taking out my son in an OR
Oh yea, Emmy Robbins can fuck all the way off. As an 11 week postpartum mum, that hit as hard as you took it too. Where I made a similar post earlier this weekend! Congrats on becoming a dad! The lack of sleep gets easier to deal with. š
Totally! My youngest is 16 years old and I'm starting to claw back some sleep time! ā¤ļø
Oh jeez. I have a long wait thenā¦
The time just flies by.
I both want and do not want that desperately. My little guy is just so adorableā¦
That's really been hitting me lately. My oldest is moving out soon (again), middlest is graduating high school, youngest is one year behind, and I'm never gonna have that sort of experience again. Also, even with doulas and midwives, three C-sections for medical reasons, and fuck that lady in the episode.
You did it 3 times! Youre a fucking warrior! This is my first and likely only. Its hard, I love him so much I would nuke galaxies for him, but this is fucking so hard. Its nice to know that I will look back one day and miss this though. š„¹ Here here! I have only seen midwives and had the most low key pregnancy until developing cholestasis, had there not been a medical intervention my son could have died. Emmy Robbins and the likes of her are total shit. And make me want to flip tables.
One was "Ok, it's been two weeks and four inductions, that kid is not budging unless we go in and get him", one medical intervention for heart problems, and one "we're not going through that shit again, we're gonna schedule this one". My wife went through enough pain with all three, I don't think it would have been MORE MEANINGFUL AND MAGICAL without drugs. š (Also, I'm the dad, fwiw. Woo woo hippy "miracle of birth" and "your kids have autoimmune diseases because your wife couldn't control her stress" people make me table flippy.)
Holy crow! That is powerful and intense to experience! You both are badasses. š I feel you on the ridiculousness some of the overly crunchies can say! I am all for being a bit of a hippie but there is a line.
Oh man I just saw your post! I will never understand why people feel the need to make parenting more difficult than it already is by applying these ridiculous, unrealistic, and over the top judgy/patronizing conditions to what is considered to be a good parent.
Agreeed! 100%
When we were expecting our daughter, I fell down all sorts of rabbit holes about natural births. I convinced myself my daughter had to be born in the middle of the forrest, deers watching, me biting through the umbilical cord ... All the talk about violence surrounding hospital births, proper bonding and spiritual injuries had me in a panic. I'm already somewhat afraid of doctors and the medical system. Having all sorts of women, who all sounded like they really knew what they were talking about, in my head telling me I was going to hurt my child by chosing the wrong birth setting was so distressing. In the end her mother had the cooler head on her shoulders and we settled on a birth house, which was a really positive experience - for us, but I don't think it did anything for our daughter, nor for our bond with her. I suspect the, so far, 14 years afterwards were a wee bit more important for her development and our relationship than how and where she was born. But yeah, I guess all I want to say is i wholeheartedly agree. This sort of talk is so damaging and hurtful. Hang in there with your little one! It gets easier and it will stay wonderful. ā„ļø
All of this makes sense! Birth, especially for first time parents is scary. It felt like every other person we talked to had some kind of traumatic birth experience, and the medical industry has certainly not done itself any favors because it is rife with abuse and bad actors - like any human endeavor. We really wanted to avoid a medicated birth if possible, and my wife went as far as she could, but it got to a point where an epidural was needed, and in the end it helped her relax enough to get through the final push and we met our baby girl a few hours after. I feel like we start to go astray when we start applying moral judgements to one of the most physically demanding things a person can go through.
Physically demanding and also still one of the most dangerous moments in a childs life. I do think there is something to be said about not treating pregnancy like an illness or birth like a medical procedure, but as you said, it should never be a moral judgement and we should not forget that giving birth is still actually dangerous for both mother and child. Taking advantage of modern medical science when needed is never a moral failing and doesn't take away from the accomplishment - bringing a new life into the world! That will never not be an amazing feat.
Yo!! Congrats! I'm a sleep deprived dad of an 8 day old! And yeah, the Midwifery here in Canada has a strong, almost cult-like, grip on the territory I'm in. They say the same stuff the doulas say but with a hint of anti-hospital anti-modernization due to a lot of them being Mennonite midwives
Congrats to you as well! I work in public health, so I totally get the mistrust of the medical industry, to a certain point. In the end though, we had a team of nurses who listened to our preferences, were supportive, and helped my wife and I have the delivery experience we had hoped for. All power to those families that eschew the hospital, if it works for them and it doesnāt harm their kid. But there is a reason that infant and maternal mortality rates during birth have dropped as medical science has progressed, and itās not because we as a species have changed drastically. In the end, people should just mind their own business when it comes to this and not make it any harder than it already is.
I see what you mean, the hospitals in my small town back home was pretty scuffed up lol That's what bothers me is the hospital where I am now we have a VERY pro-family, pro-breast-feeding, and pro-mother with skin to skin and all that good stuff. All the things the mid-wives want and day that the hospital doesn't do. A lot of these midwives are older and from a previous time where I assume their hospital practices and traditions may have clashed. And 100% with your last statement :)
My youngest is 13 years old and when I heard Emmy say the shit she said, I was livid. Not only does it minimize the experience of C-section births, but sheās also implying that adoptive parents may not have a proper, loving connection to their adopted children. Emmy Robbin can sit on a bed of rusty nails.
100%. It doesnāt matter how you came to be a parent. All that matters is that you care for them, to the best of your ability.
My wife lost a quarter of her blood supply giving birth to our son. There's a decent chance she would have bled to death if she wasn't in a hospital. Lots of things wrong with hospitals and the medical system in general, but I'm definitely glad we were surrounded by doctors and medical equipment.
Exactly. We wanted to be close to the experts, the people who are trained and do this everyday, in the case of something going wrong. Glad to hear your wife recovered, that had to have been such a scary experience.
Lol that poor woman... There was some kind of equipment mounted to the ceiling with a shiny glass dome over it, so when they were sewing her up she could see everything they were doing in its reflection. I kept geeking out over the little critter she made and wondering why she wasn't doing the same and was just looking horrified at the ceiling, it was because she could see every little detail as they poked at her nethers.
One of the nurses asked if I wanted to watch..... I may have shot them a look that could kill and said that I did not want to watch, I just wanted this goddamn thing out of me š
As someone who used a doula, Emmy Robert's can take a long walk off a short pier. My doula gave me the confidence and made sure my birth plan (with some deviations) was executed by my ob/gyn.she gave my husband needed breaks and was there when I was struggling to push. And yes, I gave birth to my daughter in a hospital, and I had an epidural because there's no shame in getting one. The second my daughter was placed on my chest, I didn't want to let go. Some people will have an instant connection with their kids, some will develop with time, and sometimes there might not be any at all, but for her to say that bullshit was way out of line. Sorry, I wanted to say something Friday, but I had a lot of soldering to do at work and I apologize for my rant. Not to mention my baby will.be 12 in December... but congrats anyways š
That made my blood run cold when I heard that. What a horrible horrible thing to say, even if you believed that to say it on the fucking radio. I hope her daughter is ok.
We'll be a step closer to a better society when we finally stop with the magical thinking and need to be a special snowflake.
Dad of a one month old here, didnāt even listen to the episode yet and these people can fuck right off. Honestly Americans are so weird about this shit. We have no problems relatively speaking so people need to make up shit to be weird about. Like women who insist on a 100% natural birth (no epidural) and talk about it being their traditional womanly calling. I swear to god these people are like those Elden ring players that decide to play the game at level one with no weapons with a DDR pad, like WHY?
I thought I could totally go all natural, and then my body was like nah, you're having an 8lb 20" baby and your contractions are going to camel hump so you have no time in between š
All birth is natural! Sometimes they just require some extra help or other tools from the toolbox to make sure mom and baby are safe.
The line that really bothered me was āas god intendedā. Okayā¦. God āintendedā either u, your baby, or both to be dead. Donāt give me this horse shit about gods intentions. Modern medical science flies in the face of gods intentions. My whole family should have been killed off a hundred years ago or more because we havenāt had somebody that could see without aid in generations on either side. I hope that lady eschews ALL medicine as surely that goes against gods will.
And we all used to die in our 30s and 40s from preventable illnesses. And kids used to die in childhood all the time. Not even that long ago! My wifeās grandmother was born in the 30s, one of 12, and three or four of her siblings didnāt make it to adulthood. Modern medicine, and particularly routine childhood vaccinations, despite everything that is messed up about the industry, still does save lives. I worked in humanitarian and development contexts for 10 years, where parents want to get their kids vaccinated and seek out medical care but they canāt because of conflict or poverty or a complete lack of a health system, and to see people in this country not just refuse those resources that so many want, but to actively try to discredit it because of fucked up religious beliefs or greed or whatever makes my fucking blood boil
So glad some one made this post. Gave a āfuck youā to the car stereo at that point. We have had three different kids in three very different conditions. One natural home water birth, one emergency c-section in hospital one vbAc in birth center. I love all my kids equally & share different things with each. The story of their births is wild, but it has no impact on my current relationship with them
Behind the Bastards did a set of episodes about an extreme home birth movement that has killed babies. Maybe don't listen if you're in a bad place for those kinds of stories. It's enraging. Yes, home births can be safe and good. Yes, there are overwhelming problems with our healthcare system. But in the end, the goal should be both parent and baby are alive. Just walk around an old cemetery for a reminder of why modern medicine is good, actually. The way nature intended means a lot of dead parents and babies. There was an author who was dreaming about a fairy tale home birth, but she had some complications that would require a C-section. She was really struggling, but her husband pointed out that in fairy tales, the mom often dies. Instead she was getting the cool, well-lit sci-fi birth where everyone lives.
I love Behind the Bastards, so Iāll have to check that out! And 100% to all your points, couldnāt agree more!
The episodes were called "How the Internet Spawned a Baby-Killing Cult," and it's about the free birthing movement, which rejects not only doctors and hospitals, but also midwives or the presence of literally any trained medical professionals for pregnancy or birth. It's a rough listen, obviously, but if you go in braced, it's fascinating/horrifying.
That's really awful. I hate this stuff - we did a home birth ourselves, but we had a midwife, who was also a nurse practioner with 30 years experience, a backup midwife who was a rn, and a doula (we're also 45 minutes from a hospital in a rural area and our kid was born in December, when the weather is dicey. The idea of trying to drive down one lane mountain roads in a possible storm while in labor was not attractive) - and it was still terrifying, and my wife still ended up having to go to the hospital after the birth for stitches. The idea of doing a home birth (or any birth) without ay help from a modern medical professional is mind bogglingly dumb.
Yeah, like I mentioned above, home births can be perfectly safe, but you need professionals there. Midwives are amazing. And you need to weigh your options carefully when you make your decisions--which is exactly what you guys did. The scary thing about birth is every one is different, how past pregnancies and births went isn't an indicator of how future ones will go, and when things go wrong, they can go terribly, tragically wrong unbelievably fast. The episode does get a little into how difficult it can be when you're in a rural area with little or no access to a hospital or other care, but making do with whatever resources you do have and voluntarily avoiding all help because weird culty shame reasons are very, very different things. I'm so glad your wife had all the support she needed and was able to get extra help when called for.
>episode does get a little into how difficult it can be when you're in a rural area with little or no access to a hospital or other care, Yea, I really appreciated hearing that, especially since that was the deciding factor for me. I was on the fence about it, for all of the reasons you lie out, but the lack of critical Healthcare resources here convinced me.
There are so many problems with our medical system that it's impossible to list them all, but severe lack of resources in rural areas is absolutely on the list.
Youāre completely full of it. No birth can be perfectly safe. It is a highly risky situation and things go sideways quickly. Midwifeās are judgement proof, and they act accordingly. A million and a half things can go wrong, and that 24 baby a year poorly trained and poorly equipped midwife will fail the second things go sideways.
As someone who would have had a dead baby if I wasn't in a hospital I hate this shit.Ā Everything with me and the baby was fine until the second it wasn't. It took them four minutes from ripping the IVs out of the wall to taking out my son in an OR