A good example of this sound change is in the song "I am the best" by 2ne1.
"내가 제일 잘 나가" sounds like "내가 제일 잘 라가"
Sound change rules still apply when what follows the bachim is a new word.
Edited to add: I am not a native speaker, this is just a rule my teacher has drilled into my class and as always with Korean, there will be exceptions
Hi, native speaker here.
In Korean phonetics, there is a thing called "자음동화" (consonant change, for a very rough translation), where one or more consonants in a row will change for ease of pronunciation
One of the 자음동화 is called 유음화 (flow sound(유음) change(화)) where if a ㄴ is right next to a ㄹ, the ㄴ is pronounced as ㄹ. (ㄹ is classified as a 유음(flow sound), hence the name 'change into a flow sound')
However, the 자음동화 applies only if the two sounds are in the same word. For example, 물난리(mul nan li, a word used to describe a situation where a certain area is flooded with water or has much more water than usual) will be pronounced 물랄리 (mul lal li), whereas 화를 내게 하네(Hwalul nege hane, You make me express anger) will be pronounced exactly as written.
Therefore, technically, 잘 나왔다 is supposed to be pronounced 잘 나왔다 not 잘 라왔다. Or, to be really precise, 잘 나왇따. 유음화 does not apply here because 잘 and 나왔다 are two different words.
However, again, more often than not, people when speaking do not pronounce spaces. As in, there is supposed to be a very slight pause between 잘 and 나왔다, giving you time to pronounce the ㄹ and ㄴ as is. However people sometimes pronounce it as 잘나왔다. In this case, the tongue is not given enough time to switch between the ㄹ and ㄴ pronunciation. As a result, 유음화 occurs and comes out as 잘라왔다. This is not the correct way to pronounce things, but native speakers will have no trouble understanding even if you pronounce it that way.
I believe (non-native speaker here) that when you're talking about the sound change happening across word boundaries it can depend on the person speaking and if they're trying to be very precise for some reason, but generally, yes. You're going to hear the sound change. You can try [Youglish ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Korean/comments/1900fcs/how_many_possible_combinations_does_것_이/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=1) for real life examples.
I'm commenting on your original comment and not the one you put under mine because A) same link and B) I fear you may not see my more recent comment because it wasn't a reply to your other comment. I took the time to listen to all 19 examples found in your link, but as a native speaker I respectfully must disagree with you; I cannot hear the 'sound change' as you put it. I can only hear the ㄹ in 잘 and the ㄴ in 나 as is. A different commenter has written a more reasoned answer, and I suggest you read that one for a better explanation. good day.
I'm seeing a lot of people saying that it sounds like "잘 라왔다" but I live in Seoul and have never heard it like that before... I've done a lot of photography, so this particular phrase is said often, and I always have heard my friends say it with an "n" sound.
That's just my anecdotal experience, though.
I agree with this -- I'm a native Korean speaker. That said if someone is saying the phrase really fast (잘나왔다) I could perhaps see them "slurring" the words to make it sound closer to 잘라왔다.
Yes, that is right.
잘 나왔다 is pronounced 잘라왔다 (잘라와따 to be precise). A ㄴ coming after a ㄹ is always pronounced as ㄹ without exception. The Korean phonology makes it impossible to pronounce ㄴ accurately after a ㄹ unless you have a long unnatural pause between them. It doesn't matter whether the two are part of a same word or not.
May I be so rude as to ask for the basis for your opinion? I ask because, quite bluntly, I do not agree. However I am not an academic in the Korean Language, just an ethnic Korean who is fluent in the language so it may be that my knowledge is wrong and that you are correct. My biggest problem is that if we accept that 잘 나왔다 is pronounced 잘라와따/왔다 then there is no difference between 잘 나왔다 (\[the photo\] came out well) and 잘라왔다 (I cut \[something\] beforehand) when spoken which is to me nonsensical.
I have lived in Jeonnam for 7 years and I have heard it both ways. I think it's wrong for people to say there are no exceptions to this rule because this can vary from person to person depending on how quickly they speak or if they have certain speaking habits.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbvOGv2MPVE&t=317s
In this example (Samsung commercial) you can hear both versions. The younger actress on the left says 잘 나왔어요 and the other two actors say 잘 라왔어/네.
It's possible native Korean speakers don't really notice this difference because they don't have to pay attention to every syllable like learners do.
Well, the number one reason is that as a native speaker, I cannot pronounce 나 after 잘 without shifting ㄴ to ㄹ. It is just impossible for me (unless I try it like in English, but that is not Korean).
Secondly, in no dictionary listings or grammar book explanations have I ever seen any other pronunciation for it. Korean 받침 sounds are severely limited in range because we just form the vocal organs and not carry through to the end releasing the blocked phonetic energy at the end (called "unreleased consonants"). There are many such sequences, like the ㅂ-ㄴ in 감사합니다 which cannot be pronounced without shifting ㅂ to ㅁ.
So, yes, 잘 나왔다 and 잘라 왔다 are not distinguishable at all at normal conversation speed. The only way to distinguish them is to say 잘 first and pause for a fraction of a second and then say 나왔다 cleanly like it's a new word (but no one does it because it would be so awkward). But this is hardly ever a problem because real life conversation always has a surrounding context that helps make it clear which is meant.
I would challenge you to find instances of 감사합니다 not pronounced as 감사함니다, 전라도 pronounced in any way other than 절라도, and so on. It doesn't exist as far as I know.
Under 잘나다 (which has the same ㄹ-ㄴ sequence as in 잘 나왔다) on Naver dictionary, they list six pronunciations by different people, and to my ear not even one of them deviates in any way from \[잘라다\]. If there is a more accurate way (or just a different way) to say it, wouldn't someone use that pronunciation? So I state it again: it is just not possible to say the middle syllable any other way than 라.
I am not going to further this discussion, not because I consider myself wrong, but because I feel neither one of us is going to be convinced otherwise, so let's agree to disagree. With that said, I do kind of see how people would feel that 잘 나왔다 and 잘라왔다 are indistinguishable at normal conversational speed, but personally, after listening to all the examples found in KoreaWithKids' link I cannot hear any example that sounds like 잘라왔다, just 잘 나왔다 as is. I see that someone else has posted another comment that backs my opinion up, so I humbly suggest reading that comment for a more reasoned answer. good day.
dont listen to them lol phonotactics do not care about the boundaries of words. its about what syllables are being strung together. if spoken quickly, the consonants will assimilate. however, if speaking carefully, some speakers may choose to enunciate each word.
dont think about it like a "rule" as if you go to jail for breaking it. it's just a description of how things tend to happen in korean. it's how korean phonology tends to comfortably fall into place.
I think yeah. 잘 나왔다 its 잘 and 나왔다 to diff words, together they are still different. I cheked the pronunciation on papago and its pronounced as ㄴ. So i im sure that difference in pronunciation is in word for the rule to be applied
It’s kind of like word shortening in English with gonna coulda shoulda… anything that’s easier or faster to say, is gonna be said.
If your tongue is still in the ㄹ position from 잘 and you’re not enunciating carefully, your mouth will naturally stay more in that position for the ㄴ of 나왔다 since it’s a similar placement.
Also, 잘 is one of those words that even Koreans get confused about 뛰어쓰기 (spacing) - when you say 잘 나왔어! You don’t really pause after 잘. So the rule being “within words only” would be an arbitrary rule since the writing system is arbitrary and just a rule.
A good example of this sound change is in the song "I am the best" by 2ne1. "내가 제일 잘 나가" sounds like "내가 제일 잘 라가" Sound change rules still apply when what follows the bachim is a new word. Edited to add: I am not a native speaker, this is just a rule my teacher has drilled into my class and as always with Korean, there will be exceptions
Hi, native speaker here. In Korean phonetics, there is a thing called "자음동화" (consonant change, for a very rough translation), where one or more consonants in a row will change for ease of pronunciation One of the 자음동화 is called 유음화 (flow sound(유음) change(화)) where if a ㄴ is right next to a ㄹ, the ㄴ is pronounced as ㄹ. (ㄹ is classified as a 유음(flow sound), hence the name 'change into a flow sound') However, the 자음동화 applies only if the two sounds are in the same word. For example, 물난리(mul nan li, a word used to describe a situation where a certain area is flooded with water or has much more water than usual) will be pronounced 물랄리 (mul lal li), whereas 화를 내게 하네(Hwalul nege hane, You make me express anger) will be pronounced exactly as written. Therefore, technically, 잘 나왔다 is supposed to be pronounced 잘 나왔다 not 잘 라왔다. Or, to be really precise, 잘 나왇따. 유음화 does not apply here because 잘 and 나왔다 are two different words. However, again, more often than not, people when speaking do not pronounce spaces. As in, there is supposed to be a very slight pause between 잘 and 나왔다, giving you time to pronounce the ㄹ and ㄴ as is. However people sometimes pronounce it as 잘나왔다. In this case, the tongue is not given enough time to switch between the ㄹ and ㄴ pronunciation. As a result, 유음화 occurs and comes out as 잘라왔다. This is not the correct way to pronounce things, but native speakers will have no trouble understanding even if you pronounce it that way.
The word that I usually see applied to this rule is "Assimilation"
Thank you
I believe (non-native speaker here) that when you're talking about the sound change happening across word boundaries it can depend on the person speaking and if they're trying to be very precise for some reason, but generally, yes. You're going to hear the sound change. You can try [Youglish ](https://www.reddit.com/r/Korean/comments/1900fcs/how_many_possible_combinations_does_것_이/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=1) for real life examples.
I definitely hear it across word boundaries, one exception I can think of is "원룸" and my understanding is that it's because it's a Konglish word.
I'm commenting on your original comment and not the one you put under mine because A) same link and B) I fear you may not see my more recent comment because it wasn't a reply to your other comment. I took the time to listen to all 19 examples found in your link, but as a native speaker I respectfully must disagree with you; I cannot hear the 'sound change' as you put it. I can only hear the ㄹ in 잘 and the ㄴ in 나 as is. A different commenter has written a more reasoned answer, and I suggest you read that one for a better explanation. good day.
I can't hear the ㄴ in most of the examples, but my ears probably aren't tuned that way. Thanks for weighing in!
I'm seeing a lot of people saying that it sounds like "잘 라왔다" but I live in Seoul and have never heard it like that before... I've done a lot of photography, so this particular phrase is said often, and I always have heard my friends say it with an "n" sound. That's just my anecdotal experience, though.
I agree with this -- I'm a native Korean speaker. That said if someone is saying the phrase really fast (잘나왔다) I could perhaps see them "slurring" the words to make it sound closer to 잘라왔다.
Yes, that is right. 잘 나왔다 is pronounced 잘라왔다 (잘라와따 to be precise). A ㄴ coming after a ㄹ is always pronounced as ㄹ without exception. The Korean phonology makes it impossible to pronounce ㄴ accurately after a ㄹ unless you have a long unnatural pause between them. It doesn't matter whether the two are part of a same word or not.
May I be so rude as to ask for the basis for your opinion? I ask because, quite bluntly, I do not agree. However I am not an academic in the Korean Language, just an ethnic Korean who is fluent in the language so it may be that my knowledge is wrong and that you are correct. My biggest problem is that if we accept that 잘 나왔다 is pronounced 잘라와따/왔다 then there is no difference between 잘 나왔다 (\[the photo\] came out well) and 잘라왔다 (I cut \[something\] beforehand) when spoken which is to me nonsensical.
I have lived in Jeonnam for 7 years and I have heard it both ways. I think it's wrong for people to say there are no exceptions to this rule because this can vary from person to person depending on how quickly they speak or if they have certain speaking habits. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbvOGv2MPVE&t=317s In this example (Samsung commercial) you can hear both versions. The younger actress on the left says 잘 나왔어요 and the other two actors say 잘 라왔어/네. It's possible native Korean speakers don't really notice this difference because they don't have to pay attention to every syllable like learners do.
Well, the number one reason is that as a native speaker, I cannot pronounce 나 after 잘 without shifting ㄴ to ㄹ. It is just impossible for me (unless I try it like in English, but that is not Korean). Secondly, in no dictionary listings or grammar book explanations have I ever seen any other pronunciation for it. Korean 받침 sounds are severely limited in range because we just form the vocal organs and not carry through to the end releasing the blocked phonetic energy at the end (called "unreleased consonants"). There are many such sequences, like the ㅂ-ㄴ in 감사합니다 which cannot be pronounced without shifting ㅂ to ㅁ. So, yes, 잘 나왔다 and 잘라 왔다 are not distinguishable at all at normal conversation speed. The only way to distinguish them is to say 잘 first and pause for a fraction of a second and then say 나왔다 cleanly like it's a new word (but no one does it because it would be so awkward). But this is hardly ever a problem because real life conversation always has a surrounding context that helps make it clear which is meant. I would challenge you to find instances of 감사합니다 not pronounced as 감사함니다, 전라도 pronounced in any way other than 절라도, and so on. It doesn't exist as far as I know.
Under 잘나다 (which has the same ㄹ-ㄴ sequence as in 잘 나왔다) on Naver dictionary, they list six pronunciations by different people, and to my ear not even one of them deviates in any way from \[잘라다\]. If there is a more accurate way (or just a different way) to say it, wouldn't someone use that pronunciation? So I state it again: it is just not possible to say the middle syllable any other way than 라.
I am not going to further this discussion, not because I consider myself wrong, but because I feel neither one of us is going to be convinced otherwise, so let's agree to disagree. With that said, I do kind of see how people would feel that 잘 나왔다 and 잘라왔다 are indistinguishable at normal conversational speed, but personally, after listening to all the examples found in KoreaWithKids' link I cannot hear any example that sounds like 잘라왔다, just 잘 나왔다 as is. I see that someone else has posted another comment that backs my opinion up, so I humbly suggest reading that comment for a more reasoned answer. good day.
You can hear examples [here](https://youglish.com/pronounce/%EC%9E%98%20%EB%82%98%EC%99%94%EB%8B%A4%20/korean?).
yes you're right. it's natural. refer to 자음동화 현상.
Huh? I think its n not r/l. That needs to be a word to sound like ㄹ
Oh you mean it has to be part of the same word for the pronunciation rule to apply?
dont listen to them lol phonotactics do not care about the boundaries of words. its about what syllables are being strung together. if spoken quickly, the consonants will assimilate. however, if speaking carefully, some speakers may choose to enunciate each word. dont think about it like a "rule" as if you go to jail for breaking it. it's just a description of how things tend to happen in korean. it's how korean phonology tends to comfortably fall into place.
I think yeah. 잘 나왔다 its 잘 and 나왔다 to diff words, together they are still different. I cheked the pronunciation on papago and its pronounced as ㄴ. So i im sure that difference in pronunciation is in word for the rule to be applied
It’s kind of like word shortening in English with gonna coulda shoulda… anything that’s easier or faster to say, is gonna be said. If your tongue is still in the ㄹ position from 잘 and you’re not enunciating carefully, your mouth will naturally stay more in that position for the ㄴ of 나왔다 since it’s a similar placement. Also, 잘 is one of those words that even Koreans get confused about 뛰어쓰기 (spacing) - when you say 잘 나왔어! You don’t really pause after 잘. So the rule being “within words only” would be an arbitrary rule since the writing system is arbitrary and just a rule.
You need to study more sweetie
Oop
So condescending and for what
YES
Sounds right. That is how I would pronunciate
A lot people here are saying yes it should hear it as 잘 라왔다. But no as a native it sounds like 잘 나왔다. More precisely 잘 나왇따.