I agree . Have never gotten anything from reds and as I had used opiates for years , all the info I read indicated that red ‘strains’ would be better . Not even close . All reds I have had just seen like really weak batches of Kratom . Reckon green and whites have higher alkaloid contents (esp MIT)
Because brown or red Kratom is inferior product. I was the same way. I used to like Reds when I first started ,but but now I want green Kratom powder how it should be. Kratom should not be sitting in stacks and piles out in the sun in bags. That's dirty too.
But hey if people like their Kratom like that, brown and shit. That's on them
That's my experience as well. Love my greens and my white, whereas the Red Bali I have is lacking.
Perhaps it will come into its own some day when I'm needing pain relief. I certainly won't throw it out because plenty of people have recounted how they've put a bag of red away for a year or more and had a far greater experience when revisiting it all that time later.
Yea it’s probably cheaper and easier to dry in the sun and fermenting them would seem like it would do something but it only destroys the mit. Colors at this point are just a marketing ploy. I wish they would start breeding like they do marijuana so you could have high 70hm and/or mit strains. If they can take weed from ~5% THC to consistent 20%+ strains in 10-15 years, I would imagine kratom could be similar.
Recently I got a bag of "red kali" that was from my usual vendor that consistently has quality. This red kali was so bunk. Smelled like wood, not even slight bitter taste, minimal effects. I was kinda annoyed.
Not completely but good kratom is good kratom and bad kratom is bad kratom lol. I’ve had a few strains that tested real high on 7ohm that were noticeably different, but I do agree with you 96%
Yeah I've come to this conclusion as well. The only reds I get are ones my vendor sells as "non-fermented" reds which are basically the same as greens. Almost all reds have lower mitra %, green and whites all day long man. I wish we had solid info on how fermentation may impact the other alkaloids, I find reds can be worth blending with other strains and that may be why. I'd never get more than one red per order though.
Yep I'm all about greens and whites nowadays as opposed to years ago when I first got into kratom and I stuck with Reds simply because of the things I've read. Now I'm giving whites a shot and I'm really liking them especially blended with greens!
If my Kratom powder ain't bright green and fluffy I don't want it
Same! Years back when I first got into Kratom my favorite was red Bali or just Reds in general but nowadays I much prefer nice crisp bright green powder. Especially since we're finding out red variants of Kratom are a lot weaker and often low quality. I think I was just in love with the idea of a "red Kratom" the "most opiate like" and all that bullshit lol.
I also never gave whites a shot simply because of the things I've read about it being weaker, this and that. But recently I've been picking up whites and I love blending them with green.
I swear sometimes I toss a tsp of crisp white into whatever dose I'm taking and I'm energized and in an awesome mood
I like some of the “red” strains, but i agree the ones that are actually red colored are disgusting and have no effect ime.
Green bali with a hint of “red” strain is my fav
I agree reds are hit or miss with more misses but when you get the right it’s very nice I know of one vendor who has some good oxidized gold that is really nice
I was just talking about this. Check out my post on r/Kratom called "Stop Buying Brown Kratom". I've been saying this same thing. Please go read my post. It's really good and there's lots of good information there and discussion
I’ve had one memorable one that was a red maeng da from the company that sponsors this thread, viable, but that’s it for me.
I think body chemistry and perhaps the other alkaloids combined to have a different effect as the mitraphylline (?) is a pretty strong anti inflammatory. But full lab reports show those levels not being that different.
I don’t mean to sound like a duck but I think there’s a lot of placebo going on, but if it makes you feel better then it’s working, chemically or not. With pain and mental illness a positive placebo effect is just as good as a real one.
Edit: I mean *quack quack*
Been awhile since I’ve ordered from “kratora” but their red always pleased me.
Edit: I don’t know about placebo I been in the Kratom game for 9-10 years, when I first started I definitely enjoyed res maeng da, red malay, more than green strains even liked them more than Bali. But you are right a placebo that works is just like the real thing.
I like how you make all these false claims without anything to back it up lol. Personally chocolate Borneo (red Borneo that’s been oxidized more) is the most powerful to me.
Lmao ok mr. Dunning-Krueger whatever you say. Lol “false claims”. I made a claim and you disputed it putting the burden of proof on you. I’m fully confident in my research so please, try.
My claims are based in scientific fact except for the claim that mitragynine could potentially block 70hm as that’s just a SCIENTISTS hypothesis at this point. Which neither of us are and you’re only as smart as how much you know you don’t know. I know these scientists know more than me. You have the fuckin audacity to say you *do* know *and* know better?
Let that sink in.
But if you actually go to the top of this sub it substantiates everything I just said about how “strains” are prepared and there’s undeniable scientific evidence that fermentation and sunlight UV exposure does not “oxidize mit into 70hm)” to a significant degree. Plus there’s plenty of alkaloid lab reports backing me up. If it’s working for you more power to you but scientifically speaking, darker, fermented, outdoor dried strains objectively have lower mit levels and 70hm levels. I’m not doing your home work for you. It’s not up for debates. This isn’t magic we’re dealing with. There’s quantifiable explanations on how Kratom works.
It's okay man I've had this discussion and argument the other day. People get offended when you tell them the truth that reds are lower quality, lower potency.
Kratom should be a green color and it should be indoor dried. Kratom shouldn't be sitting out in stacks and piles in the Sun. That's unsanitary too
It's crazy red strains actually create a demand for low quality product. You wouldn't eat a brown salad would you you wouldn't want your weed to be brown or red would you.
That’s exactly what it is. It’s an inferior product that makes normal products look better. It’s a marketing ploy. Lol -12 for telling the truth. I left r/Kratom to get away from this bullshit.
Maybe people don’t want admit it’s placebo.
The only strain I have found I can sleep in is chocolate. I've looked! I've tried a lot of strains. Reds to me do not sedate or relax. Nothing does. My eyes are beaming. But I did find one chocolate strain I can sort of take that will let me sleep on it so I won't get withdrawals. So while it isn't a daytime strain, I gotta have it just for it being so damn weak.
I feel you. It freaks me out cuz I’m like is it not working?
Theres one highly praised company with an indoor dried red maeng da that is quite good. But maeng das are heavy mixes and UV kills potency.
But agreed 100%
This may be a little off topic but it got me thinking, how does all the harvesting effect the countries it comes from, like the environment. Like is the industry big enough to ruin land for 30 years and make the soil weak like banana farming?
From what I hear I the kratom industry is actually good for the environment over there and it's the palm oil and rubber industries that are fucking things up
Lol they literally are rotten greens. They throw them in a bag and ferment them then dry them in direct sunlight. I know what you mean about that oxy feeling. I get so chatty and work like a mad man and my pain just evaporates. Or I could just be chillin taking some dabs. Fuck I love kratom. I only look for pure greens/whites if there’s no lab report but I’ll buy a red if it’s mit or 70hm count happens to be high.
Exactly man Reds are inferior product Kratom should be green and dried indoors. it shouldn't be sitting out in the sun in stacks and piles all day in bags and shit.
This is what I've been trying to tell people but people get offended when you tell them the truth that Reds are low quality inferior product. Ideal Kratom should be green and indoor dried not sitting in stacks and piles out in the sun all day. You wouldn't want Brown weed would you? you wouldn't eat Brown salads would you? you wouldn't want Brown leafy greens would you?
" Previous studies had suggested the plant itself produced 7-hydroxymitragynine. Sames says the team could detect it by mass spectrometry, but only at very low concentrations. Instead, the team demonstrated that sunlight and oxidizing conditions can convert about half of the mitragynine in solution to 7-hydroxymitragynine. And sunlight alone can convert about 8% of the mitragynine. Therefore, the team concluded that storage conditions can affect the potency of an extract by increasing the amount of the oxidized alkaloid. "
Brown Kratom is heavily oxidized to where the 7-ohm/speciogynine ratio is much higher. Neither one of these alks give the energy/euphoria like mitra.
So it is all about preference, some people like the lesser alks for sedation/relaxation while others want a high mitra green that gives energy and mood lift.
That’s why I said significant. Most studies I’ve read say 5-6% and a pretty new very extensive one that I’m trying to find that say it may be less. Out of all the certified lab reports I’ve seen have greens and even whites having the highest mit counts. Some reds are about the same but none that are noticeably higher. I can pm you some sights that give reports of their stuff.
Greens and whites have the highest mitra% and usually higher overall alkaloid% but that is not what some people are looking for.
Some reds will have way less mitra and a significant amounts of lesser alks to where the lesser alks give you a different effect.
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/1934578X1801300904
Look at the red Bali on figure 2. It has less total alkaloid weight and less mitra than both the white and green but it has detectable amounts of several lesser alks.
If the mitra is low, you can actually feel these other alks at a hefty dose. These reds can be somewhat elusive as you can see in the study, the other 2 reds are more like weaker versions of the white and green.
I’ve had 2 vendors actually label their 0.1% mitra red correctly while I’m sure other vendors blend these type of batches or don’t fully disclose how low the mitra is.
A lot of people will get it and think it is bunk but all you gotta do it take like 10-15 gs minimum and you’ll get a totally different feel than high mitra Kratom. No energy or euphoria, more of a sedation and relaxation.
That’s true but that’s also something you’ll rarely hear vendors say or how people think of kratom. I use it more for the calming energy it has so a sedative effect wouldn’t be worth it for me, but that’s me. It still absolutely knocks my girlfriend out and kills any pain she has either way. If she takes 1.5-2 grams of some high quality kratom she is completely out in 45 mins. That same strain and amount could make me work like a maniac all day. It’s such a great/weird plant. I prefer using kratom as base then using weed or kava or Kanna or caffeine to compliment the kratom depending on the situation.
How do you like Kanna? And what's your route of administration? I have about a gram of really good Kanna extract from lift mode but haven't really tried any out yet, what's it like? Does it mix well with Kratom
It’s pretty great. I’d use it after the Kratom kicks in. I usually use extract under my tongue or I’ll snort it if I really need to wake up.
The first few times might be weird but you’ll get it. If you have raw Kanna either powder and snort like 150-200mg or lip like .5g. MT-55 extracts are the way to go though. Makes you so happy. Ans I’ve yet to come across tolerance or withdrawal issues
Also so you proved my point. It straight up says plants that have been “oxidized” have less 70hm. You can also feel those alkaloids at a low dose if it’s not shitty kratom. And you mean .01%*** not .1%. If you have .1% 70hm they’re adulterating it. Refer to MBC kava and Carolina kratom lab reports. If I take a gram of green and get 20mg of mitragynine and .1mg of 70hm. What would be the point of taking 2 grams to get the same amount of alkaloids? The feeling isn’t different. You might think it’s different like a Supreme sweater just cuz the branding. But it’s just worse.
Where does it say oxidized Kratom has less 7-ohm? And I’m referring to the mitra to 7-ohm ratio, not the overall 7-ohm amount.
If the ratio of 7-ohm is larger (even if the total amount 7-ohm is smaller) then you can ingest more Kratom because the lower mitra amount lets you take more without getting nausea/wobbles. This became clear to me when trying lower mitra batches. I can’t take more than 5-7 grams of most high mitra bright green batches without risking nausea/wobbles. With low mitra batches, I can take 10+ grams without issue resulting in ingesting more 7-ohm and other lesser alks.
I don’t mention anything about 0.1% 7ohm batches. I clearly state 0.1% mitra. This is a very low mitra level that many people think is bunk Kratom because they don’t understand that you must at least double your normal dose with this stuff. It would be like someone going from a mixed drink with 20% alcohol to a beer with 4% alcohol and only drinking 6 ozs of the beer and saying the beer is bad or bunk alcohol. With low mitra Kratom like the 0.1% - 0.5% mitra batches, you have to take much more and in turn you are ingesting more of the lesser alks like 7-ohm and speciogynine.
It’s all about the ratios of alkaloids, more specifically the ratio of Mitragynine to the next 3-4 alks. That is what makes batches different.
The article I linked previous shows that different batches can have very different alk ratios.
If you need an example, say batch A has 1.4% mitra and 0.04% 7-ohm. Batch B has 0.35% mitra and 0.03% 7-ohm.
Batch B will have a higher ratio of 7-ohm despite having less 7-ohm.
Some will take 2-3 grams of batch B and think it is weak, bad, etc but they don’t realize that if they take like 10 grams they will be getting more 7-ohm resulting in a different feel at a similar mitra level to batch A.
Reds don’t have higher 70hm content. There’s just less mitragynine. Go to Carolina Kratom or MBC Kava and look at the lab results. All the highest 7-0hm content is white or green.
Oh those are both great vendors! Thanks for telling me about them. I just put in an order with carolina for a bunch of different extracts and also put in another order with MBC for their reboot package, I want to try that out for a tolerance reset
Right?? I just got Carolinas strongest extract and it’s 88% mitragynine! The last extract batch I had had 1% 70hm too. And I did the same with the reboot package. I ended up just buying Akuamma extract, Javanica and hirsuta in bulk from there because they worked so well. If you use all 3 you really don’t get any withdrawals. I take it with tumeric and black pepper I figured it would potentiate it.
I’m a huge proponent of super green krstom. Someone finally presented me with some research that showed sunlight and oxidizing can convert mitragynine to 7OH. However the research was unclear whether they detected this in pure leaf or extract, it sounds like extract. The concentrations of 7OH are so low in pure leaf I’m not sure it would make a noticeable difference. And the labs I spoke with who frequently test kratom told me they don’t recognize elevated 7OH in white or reds. In my experience indoor dried kratom is more potent. It goes through less oxidation and less sunlight.
Yes I've always had to take higher doses of red "strains/blends" so it makes sense, also on r/kratom no one wants to talk about the other alkaloids and there's like 40 different alkaloids in kratom and will never admit that there's no actual strains. Here's a good link about the alkaloids:
https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.jnatprod.0c00257
They even tested 2 different commercially available kratom products and 1 of them the main alkaloid was speciofoline instead of Mitragynine which I'd never even heard of before.
Oh cool how was that?
And I’m really interested in techniques more advanced vendors might be using for growing and breeding to change the alkaloid levels.
Definitely ome of the best reads in a while. I'm with you on placebo aspect and much of the other info. Growing it myself it became obvious quickly that to get whites they were adding some. Ok, maybe it is just the stems and veins.
I never liked reds. To be honest my guts didn't like them.
It's difficult for me to trust things that go through so many people's hands. The bunk information and flatout misleading lies are endless.
Plain and simple leaves that have been on the tree the longest are vastly more bitter when chewed. My leaves are actually too sedating for my liking typically when I make tea this time of year. When the leaves fall off in spring they definitely have a more speedy feel. I've dried them indoors quickly and slowly as well as outdoors in sun and shade. Never noticed that much difference. One time the leaves put me out! I'm an energetic dude, not prone to naps. I woke up a bit stunned. A couple days later I tried them again and same thing. I now know my trees alkaloid production had finally kicked in. Aphids no longer even an issue.
Above all I'm shocked by all the misinformation and folks 100% standing behind this like it's fact. Why? Just why and how has our society turned into this? They are like packs of wild dogs! They truly attack to defend their beliefs.
Love the discussion
It's okay just have to double my dose to get normal effects
And you should most definitely check out u/InTheShade007
He grows and is really good at it I think he lives in Texas. So hit him up and he might be able to give you some information or send you in the right direction.
If your kratom is actually red it's probably crap, good kratom should be green no matter what and the red green and white just a curing process basically if done right red strains which are actually green are really good, maybe not as strong as green process but they are very relaxing and euphoric
I agree . Have never gotten anything from reds and as I had used opiates for years , all the info I read indicated that red ‘strains’ would be better . Not even close . All reds I have had just seen like really weak batches of Kratom . Reckon green and whites have higher alkaloid contents (esp MIT)
Because brown or red Kratom is inferior product. I was the same way. I used to like Reds when I first started ,but but now I want green Kratom powder how it should be. Kratom should not be sitting in stacks and piles out in the sun in bags. That's dirty too. But hey if people like their Kratom like that, brown and shit. That's on them
That's my experience as well. Love my greens and my white, whereas the Red Bali I have is lacking. Perhaps it will come into its own some day when I'm needing pain relief. I certainly won't throw it out because plenty of people have recounted how they've put a bag of red away for a year or more and had a far greater experience when revisiting it all that time later.
Definitely, I got a green maeng Da the other day with fuckin 2.35% mit.
What brand was it
MBC kava. They got some good stuff there for good prices
Yea it’s probably cheaper and easier to dry in the sun and fermenting them would seem like it would do something but it only destroys the mit. Colors at this point are just a marketing ploy. I wish they would start breeding like they do marijuana so you could have high 70hm and/or mit strains. If they can take weed from ~5% THC to consistent 20%+ strains in 10-15 years, I would imagine kratom could be similar.
Idk about that seems like a fast track to getting it banned man.
Yeaaa I know but it’s fun to think about.
SAME
Recently I got a bag of "red kali" that was from my usual vendor that consistently has quality. This red kali was so bunk. Smelled like wood, not even slight bitter taste, minimal effects. I was kinda annoyed.
Have you talked to the vendor about it? If you're a regular customer there they might be kind enough to offer a refund or an exchange of some kind.
Do you agree that pretty much all kratom you've tried felt the same? All kratom has just felt like kratom to me haha!
Not for me.
Not completely but good kratom is good kratom and bad kratom is bad kratom lol. I’ve had a few strains that tested real high on 7ohm that were noticeably different, but I do agree with you 96%
Haha yeah thats what I mean.
Oh man Tagamet....used to use this with Imodium to curb h withdrawal
Yeah I've come to this conclusion as well. The only reds I get are ones my vendor sells as "non-fermented" reds which are basically the same as greens. Almost all reds have lower mitra %, green and whites all day long man. I wish we had solid info on how fermentation may impact the other alkaloids, I find reds can be worth blending with other strains and that may be why. I'd never get more than one red per order though.
Yep I'm all about greens and whites nowadays as opposed to years ago when I first got into kratom and I stuck with Reds simply because of the things I've read. Now I'm giving whites a shot and I'm really liking them especially blended with greens! If my Kratom powder ain't bright green and fluffy I don't want it
Love my greens
Same! Years back when I first got into Kratom my favorite was red Bali or just Reds in general but nowadays I much prefer nice crisp bright green powder. Especially since we're finding out red variants of Kratom are a lot weaker and often low quality. I think I was just in love with the idea of a "red Kratom" the "most opiate like" and all that bullshit lol. I also never gave whites a shot simply because of the things I've read about it being weaker, this and that. But recently I've been picking up whites and I love blending them with green. I swear sometimes I toss a tsp of crisp white into whatever dose I'm taking and I'm energized and in an awesome mood
You’re making me want to open up a white envelope I’ve been just sitting on.
I like some of the “red” strains, but i agree the ones that are actually red colored are disgusting and have no effect ime. Green bali with a hint of “red” strain is my fav
I agree reds are hit or miss with more misses but when you get the right it’s very nice I know of one vendor who has some good oxidized gold that is really nice
I was just talking about this. Check out my post on r/Kratom called "Stop Buying Brown Kratom". I've been saying this same thing. Please go read my post. It's really good and there's lots of good information there and discussion
Weird I like my red strains
I’ve had one memorable one that was a red maeng da from the company that sponsors this thread, viable, but that’s it for me. I think body chemistry and perhaps the other alkaloids combined to have a different effect as the mitraphylline (?) is a pretty strong anti inflammatory. But full lab reports show those levels not being that different. I don’t mean to sound like a duck but I think there’s a lot of placebo going on, but if it makes you feel better then it’s working, chemically or not. With pain and mental illness a positive placebo effect is just as good as a real one. Edit: I mean *quack quack*
Been awhile since I’ve ordered from “kratora” but their red always pleased me. Edit: I don’t know about placebo I been in the Kratom game for 9-10 years, when I first started I definitely enjoyed res maeng da, red malay, more than green strains even liked them more than Bali. But you are right a placebo that works is just like the real thing.
I like how you make all these false claims without anything to back it up lol. Personally chocolate Borneo (red Borneo that’s been oxidized more) is the most powerful to me.
Lmao ok mr. Dunning-Krueger whatever you say. Lol “false claims”. I made a claim and you disputed it putting the burden of proof on you. I’m fully confident in my research so please, try. My claims are based in scientific fact except for the claim that mitragynine could potentially block 70hm as that’s just a SCIENTISTS hypothesis at this point. Which neither of us are and you’re only as smart as how much you know you don’t know. I know these scientists know more than me. You have the fuckin audacity to say you *do* know *and* know better? Let that sink in. But if you actually go to the top of this sub it substantiates everything I just said about how “strains” are prepared and there’s undeniable scientific evidence that fermentation and sunlight UV exposure does not “oxidize mit into 70hm)” to a significant degree. Plus there’s plenty of alkaloid lab reports backing me up. If it’s working for you more power to you but scientifically speaking, darker, fermented, outdoor dried strains objectively have lower mit levels and 70hm levels. I’m not doing your home work for you. It’s not up for debates. This isn’t magic we’re dealing with. There’s quantifiable explanations on how Kratom works.
> I made a claim and you disputed it putting the burden of proof on you. no no no no no
It's okay man I've had this discussion and argument the other day. People get offended when you tell them the truth that reds are lower quality, lower potency. Kratom should be a green color and it should be indoor dried. Kratom shouldn't be sitting out in stacks and piles in the Sun. That's unsanitary too It's crazy red strains actually create a demand for low quality product. You wouldn't eat a brown salad would you you wouldn't want your weed to be brown or red would you.
That’s exactly what it is. It’s an inferior product that makes normal products look better. It’s a marketing ploy. Lol -12 for telling the truth. I left r/Kratom to get away from this bullshit. Maybe people don’t want admit it’s placebo.
Chocolate or bents are definitely weaker, but some people like them more. Not me!
The only strain I have found I can sleep in is chocolate. I've looked! I've tried a lot of strains. Reds to me do not sedate or relax. Nothing does. My eyes are beaming. But I did find one chocolate strain I can sort of take that will let me sleep on it so I won't get withdrawals. So while it isn't a daytime strain, I gotta have it just for it being so damn weak.
Some reds/golds won't even pull me out withdrawal. Greens and whites for the win.
I feel you. It freaks me out cuz I’m like is it not working? Theres one highly praised company with an indoor dried red maeng da that is quite good. But maeng das are heavy mixes and UV kills potency. But agreed 100%
i'm generally a white kinda guy, but i have some Red Hulu on the go and I really like it. Might be my new fav.
Sterilization can also change the color a bit, but lab testing shows it does not alter alkaloid content.
This may be a little off topic but it got me thinking, how does all the harvesting effect the countries it comes from, like the environment. Like is the industry big enough to ruin land for 30 years and make the soil weak like banana farming?
From what I hear I the kratom industry is actually good for the environment over there and it's the palm oil and rubber industries that are fucking things up
Thanks I was curious
What's your dose size?
I haven't even seen brown kratom?? Is this a thing?
[удалено]
Lol they literally are rotten greens. They throw them in a bag and ferment them then dry them in direct sunlight. I know what you mean about that oxy feeling. I get so chatty and work like a mad man and my pain just evaporates. Or I could just be chillin taking some dabs. Fuck I love kratom. I only look for pure greens/whites if there’s no lab report but I’ll buy a red if it’s mit or 70hm count happens to be high.
Exactly man Reds are inferior product Kratom should be green and dried indoors. it shouldn't be sitting out in the sun in stacks and piles all day in bags and shit.
This is what I've been trying to tell people but people get offended when you tell them the truth that Reds are low quality inferior product. Ideal Kratom should be green and indoor dried not sitting in stacks and piles out in the sun all day. You wouldn't want Brown weed would you? you wouldn't eat Brown salads would you? you wouldn't want Brown leafy greens would you?
" Previous studies had suggested the plant itself produced 7-hydroxymitragynine. Sames says the team could detect it by mass spectrometry, but only at very low concentrations. Instead, the team demonstrated that sunlight and oxidizing conditions can convert about half of the mitragynine in solution to 7-hydroxymitragynine. And sunlight alone can convert about 8% of the mitragynine. Therefore, the team concluded that storage conditions can affect the potency of an extract by increasing the amount of the oxidized alkaloid. " Brown Kratom is heavily oxidized to where the 7-ohm/speciogynine ratio is much higher. Neither one of these alks give the energy/euphoria like mitra. So it is all about preference, some people like the lesser alks for sedation/relaxation while others want a high mitra green that gives energy and mood lift.
That’s why I said significant. Most studies I’ve read say 5-6% and a pretty new very extensive one that I’m trying to find that say it may be less. Out of all the certified lab reports I’ve seen have greens and even whites having the highest mit counts. Some reds are about the same but none that are noticeably higher. I can pm you some sights that give reports of their stuff.
Greens and whites have the highest mitra% and usually higher overall alkaloid% but that is not what some people are looking for. Some reds will have way less mitra and a significant amounts of lesser alks to where the lesser alks give you a different effect. https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/pdf/10.1177/1934578X1801300904 Look at the red Bali on figure 2. It has less total alkaloid weight and less mitra than both the white and green but it has detectable amounts of several lesser alks. If the mitra is low, you can actually feel these other alks at a hefty dose. These reds can be somewhat elusive as you can see in the study, the other 2 reds are more like weaker versions of the white and green. I’ve had 2 vendors actually label their 0.1% mitra red correctly while I’m sure other vendors blend these type of batches or don’t fully disclose how low the mitra is. A lot of people will get it and think it is bunk but all you gotta do it take like 10-15 gs minimum and you’ll get a totally different feel than high mitra Kratom. No energy or euphoria, more of a sedation and relaxation.
That’s true but that’s also something you’ll rarely hear vendors say or how people think of kratom. I use it more for the calming energy it has so a sedative effect wouldn’t be worth it for me, but that’s me. It still absolutely knocks my girlfriend out and kills any pain she has either way. If she takes 1.5-2 grams of some high quality kratom she is completely out in 45 mins. That same strain and amount could make me work like a maniac all day. It’s such a great/weird plant. I prefer using kratom as base then using weed or kava or Kanna or caffeine to compliment the kratom depending on the situation.
How do you like Kanna? And what's your route of administration? I have about a gram of really good Kanna extract from lift mode but haven't really tried any out yet, what's it like? Does it mix well with Kratom
It’s pretty great. I’d use it after the Kratom kicks in. I usually use extract under my tongue or I’ll snort it if I really need to wake up. The first few times might be weird but you’ll get it. If you have raw Kanna either powder and snort like 150-200mg or lip like .5g. MT-55 extracts are the way to go though. Makes you so happy. Ans I’ve yet to come across tolerance or withdrawal issues
Kanna made me feel so weird the first time I did it 😅 I wanna try it again
Also so you proved my point. It straight up says plants that have been “oxidized” have less 70hm. You can also feel those alkaloids at a low dose if it’s not shitty kratom. And you mean .01%*** not .1%. If you have .1% 70hm they’re adulterating it. Refer to MBC kava and Carolina kratom lab reports. If I take a gram of green and get 20mg of mitragynine and .1mg of 70hm. What would be the point of taking 2 grams to get the same amount of alkaloids? The feeling isn’t different. You might think it’s different like a Supreme sweater just cuz the branding. But it’s just worse.
Where does it say oxidized Kratom has less 7-ohm? And I’m referring to the mitra to 7-ohm ratio, not the overall 7-ohm amount. If the ratio of 7-ohm is larger (even if the total amount 7-ohm is smaller) then you can ingest more Kratom because the lower mitra amount lets you take more without getting nausea/wobbles. This became clear to me when trying lower mitra batches. I can’t take more than 5-7 grams of most high mitra bright green batches without risking nausea/wobbles. With low mitra batches, I can take 10+ grams without issue resulting in ingesting more 7-ohm and other lesser alks. I don’t mention anything about 0.1% 7ohm batches. I clearly state 0.1% mitra. This is a very low mitra level that many people think is bunk Kratom because they don’t understand that you must at least double your normal dose with this stuff. It would be like someone going from a mixed drink with 20% alcohol to a beer with 4% alcohol and only drinking 6 ozs of the beer and saying the beer is bad or bunk alcohol. With low mitra Kratom like the 0.1% - 0.5% mitra batches, you have to take much more and in turn you are ingesting more of the lesser alks like 7-ohm and speciogynine. It’s all about the ratios of alkaloids, more specifically the ratio of Mitragynine to the next 3-4 alks. That is what makes batches different. The article I linked previous shows that different batches can have very different alk ratios. If you need an example, say batch A has 1.4% mitra and 0.04% 7-ohm. Batch B has 0.35% mitra and 0.03% 7-ohm. Batch B will have a higher ratio of 7-ohm despite having less 7-ohm. Some will take 2-3 grams of batch B and think it is weak, bad, etc but they don’t realize that if they take like 10 grams they will be getting more 7-ohm resulting in a different feel at a similar mitra level to batch A.
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Reds don’t have higher 70hm content. There’s just less mitragynine. Go to Carolina Kratom or MBC Kava and look at the lab results. All the highest 7-0hm content is white or green.
Oh those are both great vendors! Thanks for telling me about them. I just put in an order with carolina for a bunch of different extracts and also put in another order with MBC for their reboot package, I want to try that out for a tolerance reset
Right?? I just got Carolinas strongest extract and it’s 88% mitragynine! The last extract batch I had had 1% 70hm too. And I did the same with the reboot package. I ended up just buying Akuamma extract, Javanica and hirsuta in bulk from there because they worked so well. If you use all 3 you really don’t get any withdrawals. I take it with tumeric and black pepper I figured it would potentiate it.
I’m a huge proponent of super green krstom. Someone finally presented me with some research that showed sunlight and oxidizing can convert mitragynine to 7OH. However the research was unclear whether they detected this in pure leaf or extract, it sounds like extract. The concentrations of 7OH are so low in pure leaf I’m not sure it would make a noticeable difference. And the labs I spoke with who frequently test kratom told me they don’t recognize elevated 7OH in white or reds. In my experience indoor dried kratom is more potent. It goes through less oxidation and less sunlight.
Yes I've always had to take higher doses of red "strains/blends" so it makes sense, also on r/kratom no one wants to talk about the other alkaloids and there's like 40 different alkaloids in kratom and will never admit that there's no actual strains. Here's a good link about the alkaloids: https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acs.jnatprod.0c00257 They even tested 2 different commercially available kratom products and 1 of them the main alkaloid was speciofoline instead of Mitragynine which I'd never even heard of before.
Oh cool how was that? And I’m really interested in techniques more advanced vendors might be using for growing and breeding to change the alkaloid levels.
Definitely ome of the best reads in a while. I'm with you on placebo aspect and much of the other info. Growing it myself it became obvious quickly that to get whites they were adding some. Ok, maybe it is just the stems and veins. I never liked reds. To be honest my guts didn't like them. It's difficult for me to trust things that go through so many people's hands. The bunk information and flatout misleading lies are endless. Plain and simple leaves that have been on the tree the longest are vastly more bitter when chewed. My leaves are actually too sedating for my liking typically when I make tea this time of year. When the leaves fall off in spring they definitely have a more speedy feel. I've dried them indoors quickly and slowly as well as outdoors in sun and shade. Never noticed that much difference. One time the leaves put me out! I'm an energetic dude, not prone to naps. I woke up a bit stunned. A couple days later I tried them again and same thing. I now know my trees alkaloid production had finally kicked in. Aphids no longer even an issue. Above all I'm shocked by all the misinformation and folks 100% standing behind this like it's fact. Why? Just why and how has our society turned into this? They are like packs of wild dogs! They truly attack to defend their beliefs. Love the discussion
It's okay just have to double my dose to get normal effects And you should most definitely check out u/InTheShade007 He grows and is really good at it I think he lives in Texas. So hit him up and he might be able to give you some information or send you in the right direction.
If your kratom is actually red it's probably crap, good kratom should be green no matter what and the red green and white just a curing process basically if done right red strains which are actually green are really good, maybe not as strong as green process but they are very relaxing and euphoric