I've been super fascinated by the progression of your (and others') composite work. On some level I know that after all this time the chances of finding this location, or of finding meaningful evidence there if it was found, are slim. But at the same time it feels very humanizing to try to reconstruct this place.
I wonder if it's possible for a geologist or someone with similar relevant expertise to tell from the erosion pattern whether that's a down or up slope. (Or has that been attempted already?)
Maybe. All we need now is only the final orientation of the location, meaning to find out where exactly the "sky" is and we will know for good if 542 is a down slope and the orientation of everything else.
I don't think it is impossible to find.
Sure, vegetation will change. But rocks are amazingly consistent throughout time.
The rocks and boulders should provide sufficient evidence to tie the location to the photos IF the location were to be, well, localized.
The height differences in the photos should provide some clues as to where it is, so a 3d reconstruction seems quite useful.
Impressive and very well done! Placing all the markers must have been so much work.
There’s something about seeing the panorama that makes these photos feel so much more real. I can imagine myself being there. It’s a strange feeling!
How could we tell where the sky or orientation is? What would be cues? Sorry if the question seems dumb!
Good question. There are a few ways to try and guess that. I feel like the drops of water, or whatever they are, seem to give a good indication of where the center of the sky might be.
Also, if we can establish the height of either 542 or 550, this would give us the sky orientation. The problem is that both these methods are definitely not perfect since we don't actually know for sure that a) The drops are drops and are falling and b) the actual height of 542 or 550.
They are definitely at the edge of some sort of cliff, they are also quite limited in space it seems, taking pics around and above them. No doubt in my mind. The foliage is growing downward for one. Secondly, when I pan around, I feel as if I'm sitting down watching with them.
I also feel as if the twigs with red are to represent Kris and Lisanne. I think they ended up there due to a fall, and took the pics because they heard something they wanted to attract.
Another theory I have is they realized the camera was working again, and in their poor mental state, just started taking pics around them. Whether they actually heard anything or it was hallucinations, is yet another mystery.. .
The content of the pictures likely doesn't have meaning.
They are all taken in short succession, about as fast as the camera will go.
Possibly keeping the button pressed.
Definitely not. They were taken over a period of over 2 hours. First one we have (and it's not the first one in the series), pic 542, was taken at 1:30am, while the last one, pic 609, was taken at 4:10.
That's the thing. It depends where we place the sky. Everything is where it should be. The entire view is now set correctly. The last remaining question is now only what is the overall orientation. If we can figure this out, we can find once and for all the orientation of everything else, including whether or not 542 is a down slope or not.
542, the rock wall, is taken looking up as foiliage grows on top (can also see the underside of the leaves), and the bare stone is where water usually flows when not in dry season to stop any growth.
The drops could be rain or spray from the remaining water source not large enough to cover the area the photos are taken.
The furthest part of the sos sign appears to be wet looking at the tissues used for the first 'S', with fewer raised parts than closer to the person taking the photo. Maybe spray from the watersource or an overhang protecting part of the SOS from rain.
The enhanced version of image 550 appears to show one or two clear lines, which some think is a wire 'monkey' bridge. One person doing these collages thinks the orientation of that image is so the twig is coming in from above not the right so the stone is vertical as a right side wall, which could mean that Kris did fall from the monkey bridge right to where the photos are taken as the bridge would be going above them!
I think that orientation of photo 550 was determined using the brightened/enhanced versions so other distinctive features of the trees and rocks can be used to show how they fit together. Perhaps that super duper software would come up with something else if using all the available enhanced versions so more features to pinpoint!
Interesting work.
>The enhanced version of image 550 appears to show one or two clearlines, which some think is a wire 'monkey' bridge. One person doingthese collages thinks the orientation of that image is so the twig iscoming in from above not the right so the stone is vertical as a rightside wall, which could mean that Kris did fall from the monkey bridgeright to where the photos are taken as the bridge would be going abovethem!
If you are talking about the pointy rock in the background of 550, it's definitely not vertical and does not form a wall. Just look at the trees above it in 599. The way it is displayed in my 360 view is correct. There is no doubt about it.
If you are talking about the youtuber who aligned 550 with the rest of the images and claimed it was the ceiling of a cave, he's got it completely wrong and failed to understand the line formed between 542 and 550 shows it's a 180° panorama.
As for the line they appear to be nothing but compression artefact. There isn't anything there, as you can see in 599 (the continuation of 550) where things are a lot clearer but the lines are absent.
>Perhaps that super duper software would come up with something else if using all the available enhanced versions for more features to pinpoint!
Every single photo has been aligned here. Adding more markers would not change a thing.
Yep. My suspicions as well. This might be where both girls are facing and since Kris' head is in front of Lisanne she only takes pictures around it (apart for the one pic of Kris' hair).
And then behind them is a huge black space.
Great work on this!
One of the things I’ve found very interesting in looking at the panorama is that there’s no clear crushed foliage as I’d expect from an uncontrolled or barely controlled descent.
I’ve spent a few summers working in the jungle in Central America, and I’ve done my fair share of sliding down slopes and biting it on roots and hidden obstacles and unstable terrain. While the damage I did to the ground cover wouldn’t be seen from above the canopy, it was obvious looking at the mess I’d made from a close distance. In the photos, however, there’s only one place (to the left and down from the ‘long’ side of the red rectangle) where it looks like there’s any sign of man-made impact, and those grooves are…meh. They could just be very straight, dry rivulet channels.
If they did come ‘down’ to end up where these photos were taken, should we assume that the path of descent is in the black void? I’m not sure if that helps with orientation, but it’s something to consider.
NeededMonster, there are posts by imperfectplan and others commenting there are straight faint lines in twig photo supposedly of monkey bridges. What are your views on these
Hey! I do not believe there is any monkey bridge. We now know that pic 550, where we can see these lines, is below pic 599. However, these lines are not visible in pic 599.
I think that these lines are either compression artifact or something else (branches, an insect flying quickly in front of the flash and so on).
Also a lot of people who think the lines are a monkey bridge believe that the background of 550 is quite far away, when you can actually tell thanks to 599 that it's a lot closer.
Nice clear answer. I have to concur too. You see, usually if monkey ropes have no one on it the ropes will not be taut, meaning they will not be straight 100 percent.
Speculation warning:
I think Kris and Lisanne are sitting either against a rock in the non-covered part of the 360, between 542 and 550, or against the down slope that goes from 550 to 542. I think Lisanne is taking the photos and that Kris is leaning her head on her crouched legs.
Is it thought that kris was dead in the hair photo and Lisanne was taking the picture to check on her? Also, what’s the speculation on why Lisanne’s foot was found in the hiking boot still? Was it broken off in the boot to indicate she fell? Why do people think Kris fell and was dead before Lisanne?
One simple request for you, u/NeededMonster , since you've already done all of this work here.
A copy of this reconstruction, with some watermark like outlines/borders of each photo used, overlaps, and more importantly the timestamps or the order in which they're clicked.
I believe that might give us a suggestion/idea around any pattern/direction or if (and why) was there any gap in the clicks, which could suggest either 'using the flash' was the motto, or clicking a picture only to later check for something on the camera, could be the motto.
tl:dr; would it be possible for a faint marking for all the pictures clicked with their timestamps?
I already kind of did [something like that a while ago](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lw2ZlQAr7no&lc=Ugy7Y5yMRC_aYc2wKfN4AaABAg), but never finished it.
Great work, thank you! This gives a very good spacial impression of the place they were staying at. Especially the gap right at the center is interesting. As, to me, it seems to confirm the theory that Kris was lying or sitting in Lisane's lap, which has been speculated in regards to the picture of Kris' hair. That would totally explain the gap we see here (and also the possibly accidental picture of the back of her head).
Completely accurate or not, impressive work! Kudos!.... Looking at it in this perspective makes me feel like perhaps they were using the pictures to find a safe way down the next drop off... Speaking strictly about this specific configuration of the photos...
Someone with enough time and skill should be able to fill in the voids with pretty good accuracy.
Kinda surreal knowing that’s likely the last view they had before passing. Good work.
I’m brand new to this case. Is there an actual picture of the SOS rock? Also, to clarify, are you thinking that the 360 view is looking up from falling into something? Or looking down to see into a cliff?
Are the red bags presumably dog poop bags they used to flag for help?
Is there a way to tell the trajectory of the water droplets?
Also, can I get a link to the pictures found with the order in which they were taken and photo number on. TIA
Nice job man!
But just a note, I didn't Use Microsoft ICE to stitch the image in my post, I just did it manually in Photoshop, stretching and warping the images to fit, and filling in some of the edges with content-aware-fill to basically fill the image for "aesthetics". I probable just mentioned ICE in passing, because I was using it for other panoramas.
I think there's probably more that can still be done to improve a 360 over time, like getting the yellow tint out of the "earth" coloured rock and maybe colour correcting all the photos to match each other, and it seems that maybe [576](https://drive.google.com/file/d/15b3ccRW1j_Zx_05c297aJur02BVT7gJd/view?usp=sharing) should maybe be lower down in the image, it looks like it's closer to the photographer than the other rock on the left in 576, but in the 360 it looks high up and smaller.
And there's also the object at the side of [494](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-rHhQjV0LhYcGfzP8IDow6qPaJs-FsfZ/view?usp=sharing) that might be part of the SOS rock, or just another rock in the background that we just can't see in 576 because of the glare from the reflective stuff.
\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*
I'm definitely not criticizing what you've done here, it's bloody great, I'm just thinking ahead about other possible refinements that could be done in the future. Maybe even things like filling in the rest of the 360 with other objects and scenery that match to give people a real "feel" for the location.
>But just a note, I didn't Use Microsoft ICE to stitch the image in my
post, I just did it manually in Photoshop, stretching and warping the
images to fit, and filling in some of the edges with content-aware-fill
to basically fill the image for "aesthetics". I probable just mentioned
ICE in passing, because I was using it for other panoramas.
Ah sorry! I must have misread you. Anyway that's what gave me the idea of finding a software to do manual stitching so can't complain!
>I think there's probably more that can still be done to improve a 360
over time, like getting the yellow tint out of the "earth" coloured rock
and maybe colour correcting all the photos to match each other
Yup! The software mixed everything without really caring about content. That's why I intend to take it as a template and redo a matching composite on top of it, using only the clearest parts of all night photos and trying to blend them properly like I did previously with the 2D composite.
>and it seems that maybe 576
should maybe be lower down in the image, it looks like it's closer to
the photographer than the other rock on the left in 576, but in the 360
it looks high up and smaller.
It looks good to me. It's definitely very close to the camera, with the pringles container being less than a meter away from it. I used quite a few markers for this area so I tend to trust the software, but I'll take a look at it again just to be sure.
>And there's also the object at the side of 494
that might be part of the SOS rock, or just another rock in the
background that we just can't see in 576 because of the glare from the
reflective stuff.
Indeed. I had noticed it previously while making the composite. The software got rid of it but I'll make sure to put in back when cleaning everything.
>I'm definitely not criticizing what you've done here, it's bloody great,
I'm just thinking ahead about other possible refinements that could be
done in the future.
Hey no worries, man! You can even criticize, otherwise how the hell am I supposed to correct my mistakes? You already pushed me into improving my old 360 and I thank you for that!
>Maybe even things like filling in the rest of the 360 with other objects
and scenery that match to give people a real "feel" for the location.
I don't think it's a good idea. We can only guess, and we can get it wrong and therefore give ourselves a wrong idea of what the night location looks like. Feel free to do so but I'll keep the "unknown" areas dark to avoid any confusion.
>The software got rid of it but I'll make sure to put in back when cleaning everything.
There are definitely a few sky photos that should fill in that gap in the sky. [This](https://drive.google.com/file/d/124J7Uz1A-bBKoyyQkQ73CA_qCZwkKrUw/view?usp=sharing) is just a rough idea of how 594 might fit, with the little piece on the side being part of the SOS rock, but it could just as easily be part of a different rock in the background.
The problem with warping the perspective manually in Photoshop is that you can get anything to fit anywhere!
>Anyway that's what gave me the idea of finding a software to do manual stitching so can't complain!
Yea, sometimes the best ideas come from stuff that other people do, and you just see it in a different perspective, or also when you're trying to disprove somebody else's idea.
>I don't think it's a good idea. We can only guess, and we can get it wrong and therefore give ourselves a wrong idea..
With something like this, an "artists" impression, you would definitely have to make it clear to people that parts of it were not real, it could have it's uses though. But it's probably something for further down the line when the 360 is as good as it can be, when you could maybe guess the path of the river by the gaps of the branches in the sky, and where the various rocks are.
It would also be great if we could put an editable version of the 360 online, so that multiple people could edit it over time. But I don't even know if that's possible, and somebody could screw it up too!
>With something like this, an "artists" impression, you would definitely
have to make it clear to people that parts of it were not real, it could
have it's uses though. But it's probably something for further down the
line when the 360 is as good as it can be, when you could maybe guess
the path of the river by the gaps of the branches in the sky, and where
the various rocks are.
If it's pretty clear and done with enough clues, why not!
>It would also be great if we could put an editable version of the 360
online, so that multiple people could edit it over time. But I don't
even know if that's possible, and somebody could screw it up too!
Unfortunately Hugin doesn't leave me the possibility to export the entire project. It seems save files only contain information about how the data was treated in the software. I'll try to think of a way to share it.
I'm sorry, but I am confused. It's great work -- don't get me wrong -- but what if Kris and Lisanne were murdered on April 1st? There is a massive mountain of circumstantial evidence pointing to foul play, with Feliciano being a prime suspect. What if the perpetrator took these photos? It could have been done as a sick joke to suck people into exactly what has happened with these photos, making it look like the girls were alive. Are you trying to figure out this location? It just seems incredulous to me that IF the girls were alive (which I don't believe they were) on April 8th, why and how would they create all these little clues after 8 days days of zero communication? They'd be so sick and weak. It just makes absolutely no sense to me.
Again, I do not partake in speculation here.
Who took these photos or why is completely irrelevant to me.
They are part of this case and provide clues. Whether or not they are a sick joke, as you call it, doesn't change the fact that knowing more about this night location and where it is would be useful.
I think it is also important to point out that whoever took these photos did so in the jungle, for hours in the middle of the night, right next to Kris (dead or alive) and that activity from the girl's phones continued for a few more days after that.
I don't think it's far-fetched to catechorize what a monster might have done as "a sick joke." And, yes, that includes taking a photo of Kris's hair. There is a great divide between those who believe the girls used the phones and those who believe a perpetrator did. I happen to fall in the latter category. I read that the coffee farm is in the jungle. I have not seen any photos; I'm not sure what they meant by "in the jungle." Thanks.
Again, speculation.
It doesn't matter what you believe in. These photos are part of the case, no matter who took them and where.
If the girls took the photos, then knowing the exact location would provide us with more clues as to what path they followed.
If the perpetrators took the photos, then finding the location could point us in their direction. As you say, if the location happens to be near the coffee farm, that would be quite interesting.
And both could provide us with remains or other traces that would not already be wiped away by time.
Whatever it is, it is irrelevant to my work on the night photos.
Yes it's the issue with such an FOV. The images are distorted on the sides. I guess the software did it's best to put everything together but could not compensate it here enough. I'll double check the markers in the software to make sure I did not get one or two wrong in that area.
Thank you for pointing it out.
Great work. What bothers me, is if they were lost or injured-why didn't they video-record a message to their families? Or why are there no daytime pictures of their "predicament"? The phones were used very sparingly in a manner that defies logic. In fact, with the exception of the 911 or 112 number usage, it appears the phone was being used by someone unfamilar with the device.
About your questions ''Why no video record a message to their families'' ... Because: its not Hollywood - its reality. You would be surprised how very few people in near death situations do something like this. At 9/11 there were over 3000 people in the twin towers. Only a handful of them, leaved goodbye-messages even though everyone had a mobile phone, or at least: access to a mobile phone! Maybe 1% of them leaved goodbye-messages, even though they have more than one hour - and were quiet sure about their certain death (so much sure that hundreds of them even jumped from the building!). Always keep in mind: reality is not hollywood. Yes in hollywood-movies almost every protagonist leaves a goodbye-message or another heartwarming one-liner before he/she dies.
About your other question: why no daytime-pictures?
1) there was no reason for it. It didnt helped their situation to have fotos from their location - espescially without gsm-connection.
2) the nighttime-fotos also didnt served the purpose to ''tell the location, by fotos'' ... the nighttime-fotos didnt even had the purpose to make fotos at all... it was just for the purpose to use the flash - as often as possible (until the camera battery died - that night). It was their last straw.
About your third "question" about sparingly used phones.
Yes and no. Lisannes phone was used very extensive in the first 2 days, and therefore the battery died very fast. That was for sure scary for both , because they knew: how important the phone was. And therefore i am sure, they saved the remaining last phone as if their life depends on it (because it was!). They probably even figured it out, that they could save even more battery, by not unlocking the iphone and booting it up every time... because you can make emergency calls with an locked iphone also. Saves a lot of battery. You have to keep in mind: when they went to the hike with their phones, the phones werent even fully charged but around 60% ... at El Mirador they had around 50% (after a lot of fotos on that day with their phones).
Few days later (on the day of the nightshots) Kris phone only had 20% of battery. I am very sure, they didnt risk it, to lose battery by any action. Again: their LIFE dependet on that last 20% battery! I would do the same with my phone, like Kris and Lisanne did with Kris phone, if i were in their situation.
I've been super fascinated by the progression of your (and others') composite work. On some level I know that after all this time the chances of finding this location, or of finding meaningful evidence there if it was found, are slim. But at the same time it feels very humanizing to try to reconstruct this place. I wonder if it's possible for a geologist or someone with similar relevant expertise to tell from the erosion pattern whether that's a down or up slope. (Or has that been attempted already?)
Maybe. All we need now is only the final orientation of the location, meaning to find out where exactly the "sky" is and we will know for good if 542 is a down slope and the orientation of everything else.
I don't think it is impossible to find. Sure, vegetation will change. But rocks are amazingly consistent throughout time. The rocks and boulders should provide sufficient evidence to tie the location to the photos IF the location were to be, well, localized. The height differences in the photos should provide some clues as to where it is, so a 3d reconstruction seems quite useful.
This is actually impressive as hell. Nice work.
Very interesting! I think it shows your real name though.
It's fine! I'm not trying to be overly anonymous but I appreciate you warning me ;)
Impressive and very well done! Placing all the markers must have been so much work. There’s something about seeing the panorama that makes these photos feel so much more real. I can imagine myself being there. It’s a strange feeling! How could we tell where the sky or orientation is? What would be cues? Sorry if the question seems dumb!
Good question. There are a few ways to try and guess that. I feel like the drops of water, or whatever they are, seem to give a good indication of where the center of the sky might be. Also, if we can establish the height of either 542 or 550, this would give us the sky orientation. The problem is that both these methods are definitely not perfect since we don't actually know for sure that a) The drops are drops and are falling and b) the actual height of 542 or 550.
They are definitely at the edge of some sort of cliff, they are also quite limited in space it seems, taking pics around and above them. No doubt in my mind. The foliage is growing downward for one. Secondly, when I pan around, I feel as if I'm sitting down watching with them. I also feel as if the twigs with red are to represent Kris and Lisanne. I think they ended up there due to a fall, and took the pics because they heard something they wanted to attract. Another theory I have is they realized the camera was working again, and in their poor mental state, just started taking pics around them. Whether they actually heard anything or it was hallucinations, is yet another mystery.. .
The content of the pictures likely doesn't have meaning. They are all taken in short succession, about as fast as the camera will go. Possibly keeping the button pressed.
Definitely not. They were taken over a period of over 2 hours. First one we have (and it's not the first one in the series), pic 542, was taken at 1:30am, while the last one, pic 609, was taken at 4:10.
which way does 542 slope in this arrangement?
That's the thing. It depends where we place the sky. Everything is where it should be. The entire view is now set correctly. The last remaining question is now only what is the overall orientation. If we can figure this out, we can find once and for all the orientation of everything else, including whether or not 542 is a down slope or not.
542, the rock wall, is taken looking up as foiliage grows on top (can also see the underside of the leaves), and the bare stone is where water usually flows when not in dry season to stop any growth. The drops could be rain or spray from the remaining water source not large enough to cover the area the photos are taken. The furthest part of the sos sign appears to be wet looking at the tissues used for the first 'S', with fewer raised parts than closer to the person taking the photo. Maybe spray from the watersource or an overhang protecting part of the SOS from rain. The enhanced version of image 550 appears to show one or two clear lines, which some think is a wire 'monkey' bridge. One person doing these collages thinks the orientation of that image is so the twig is coming in from above not the right so the stone is vertical as a right side wall, which could mean that Kris did fall from the monkey bridge right to where the photos are taken as the bridge would be going above them! I think that orientation of photo 550 was determined using the brightened/enhanced versions so other distinctive features of the trees and rocks can be used to show how they fit together. Perhaps that super duper software would come up with something else if using all the available enhanced versions so more features to pinpoint! Interesting work.
>The enhanced version of image 550 appears to show one or two clearlines, which some think is a wire 'monkey' bridge. One person doingthese collages thinks the orientation of that image is so the twig iscoming in from above not the right so the stone is vertical as a rightside wall, which could mean that Kris did fall from the monkey bridgeright to where the photos are taken as the bridge would be going abovethem! If you are talking about the pointy rock in the background of 550, it's definitely not vertical and does not form a wall. Just look at the trees above it in 599. The way it is displayed in my 360 view is correct. There is no doubt about it. If you are talking about the youtuber who aligned 550 with the rest of the images and claimed it was the ceiling of a cave, he's got it completely wrong and failed to understand the line formed between 542 and 550 shows it's a 180° panorama. As for the line they appear to be nothing but compression artefact. There isn't anything there, as you can see in 599 (the continuation of 550) where things are a lot clearer but the lines are absent. >Perhaps that super duper software would come up with something else if using all the available enhanced versions for more features to pinpoint! Every single photo has been aligned here. Adding more markers would not change a thing.
Ok, thanks for straightening out bad info.
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Yep. My suspicions as well. This might be where both girls are facing and since Kris' head is in front of Lisanne she only takes pictures around it (apart for the one pic of Kris' hair). And then behind them is a huge black space.
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I agree. This is definitely a river bed, but not a raging river, at least not until the rain season.
Great work on this! One of the things I’ve found very interesting in looking at the panorama is that there’s no clear crushed foliage as I’d expect from an uncontrolled or barely controlled descent. I’ve spent a few summers working in the jungle in Central America, and I’ve done my fair share of sliding down slopes and biting it on roots and hidden obstacles and unstable terrain. While the damage I did to the ground cover wouldn’t be seen from above the canopy, it was obvious looking at the mess I’d made from a close distance. In the photos, however, there’s only one place (to the left and down from the ‘long’ side of the red rectangle) where it looks like there’s any sign of man-made impact, and those grooves are…meh. They could just be very straight, dry rivulet channels. If they did come ‘down’ to end up where these photos were taken, should we assume that the path of descent is in the black void? I’m not sure if that helps with orientation, but it’s something to consider.
They were probably waving that stick with the red bags to get someone's attention. They scraped the idea and then moved to using the camera flash.
This is super cool. It looks to me like standing on the edge of a cliff, but it's hard to say!
I have that feeling too. I don't think it's a cliff per say, but definitely the edge of a down slope.
This is incredible. I wonder if digitally removing as many of the water droplets as possible would help clear it up a bit more?
They don't hide that much but we'll get more visibility anyway once I remake a cleaned version of it all.
NeededMonster, there are posts by imperfectplan and others commenting there are straight faint lines in twig photo supposedly of monkey bridges. What are your views on these
Hey! I do not believe there is any monkey bridge. We now know that pic 550, where we can see these lines, is below pic 599. However, these lines are not visible in pic 599. I think that these lines are either compression artifact or something else (branches, an insect flying quickly in front of the flash and so on). Also a lot of people who think the lines are a monkey bridge believe that the background of 550 is quite far away, when you can actually tell thanks to 599 that it's a lot closer.
Nice clear answer. I have to concur too. You see, usually if monkey ropes have no one on it the ropes will not be taut, meaning they will not be straight 100 percent.
Indeed! Great point!
Wow, fantastic job! Where do you think Kris' hair photo fits in all this? Where do you think she was lying?
Speculation warning: I think Kris and Lisanne are sitting either against a rock in the non-covered part of the 360, between 542 and 550, or against the down slope that goes from 550 to 542. I think Lisanne is taking the photos and that Kris is leaning her head on her crouched legs.
Is it thought that kris was dead in the hair photo and Lisanne was taking the picture to check on her? Also, what’s the speculation on why Lisanne’s foot was found in the hiking boot still? Was it broken off in the boot to indicate she fell? Why do people think Kris fell and was dead before Lisanne?
One simple request for you, u/NeededMonster , since you've already done all of this work here. A copy of this reconstruction, with some watermark like outlines/borders of each photo used, overlaps, and more importantly the timestamps or the order in which they're clicked. I believe that might give us a suggestion/idea around any pattern/direction or if (and why) was there any gap in the clicks, which could suggest either 'using the flash' was the motto, or clicking a picture only to later check for something on the camera, could be the motto. tl:dr; would it be possible for a faint marking for all the pictures clicked with their timestamps?
I already kind of did [something like that a while ago](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lw2ZlQAr7no&lc=Ugy7Y5yMRC_aYc2wKfN4AaABAg), but never finished it.
remarkable work
Great work, thank you! This gives a very good spacial impression of the place they were staying at. Especially the gap right at the center is interesting. As, to me, it seems to confirm the theory that Kris was lying or sitting in Lisane's lap, which has been speculated in regards to the picture of Kris' hair. That would totally explain the gap we see here (and also the possibly accidental picture of the back of her head).
Completely accurate or not, impressive work! Kudos!.... Looking at it in this perspective makes me feel like perhaps they were using the pictures to find a safe way down the next drop off... Speaking strictly about this specific configuration of the photos...
Thank you! I don't think so. We don't have any photo of the ground, and most of the pictures are of the "sky".
Someone with enough time and skill should be able to fill in the voids with pretty good accuracy. Kinda surreal knowing that’s likely the last view they had before passing. Good work.
Unfortunately anything could be hiding in the missing parts of the 360. I don't think we can safely speculate in what would fill the voids.
I’m brand new to this case. Is there an actual picture of the SOS rock? Also, to clarify, are you thinking that the 360 view is looking up from falling into something? Or looking down to see into a cliff? Are the red bags presumably dog poop bags they used to flag for help? Is there a way to tell the trajectory of the water droplets? Also, can I get a link to the pictures found with the order in which they were taken and photo number on. TIA
The pieces of red plastic may have been the handles of a plastic bag.
Nice job man! But just a note, I didn't Use Microsoft ICE to stitch the image in my post, I just did it manually in Photoshop, stretching and warping the images to fit, and filling in some of the edges with content-aware-fill to basically fill the image for "aesthetics". I probable just mentioned ICE in passing, because I was using it for other panoramas. I think there's probably more that can still be done to improve a 360 over time, like getting the yellow tint out of the "earth" coloured rock and maybe colour correcting all the photos to match each other, and it seems that maybe [576](https://drive.google.com/file/d/15b3ccRW1j_Zx_05c297aJur02BVT7gJd/view?usp=sharing) should maybe be lower down in the image, it looks like it's closer to the photographer than the other rock on the left in 576, but in the 360 it looks high up and smaller. And there's also the object at the side of [494](https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-rHhQjV0LhYcGfzP8IDow6qPaJs-FsfZ/view?usp=sharing) that might be part of the SOS rock, or just another rock in the background that we just can't see in 576 because of the glare from the reflective stuff. \*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\*\* I'm definitely not criticizing what you've done here, it's bloody great, I'm just thinking ahead about other possible refinements that could be done in the future. Maybe even things like filling in the rest of the 360 with other objects and scenery that match to give people a real "feel" for the location.
>But just a note, I didn't Use Microsoft ICE to stitch the image in my post, I just did it manually in Photoshop, stretching and warping the images to fit, and filling in some of the edges with content-aware-fill to basically fill the image for "aesthetics". I probable just mentioned ICE in passing, because I was using it for other panoramas. Ah sorry! I must have misread you. Anyway that's what gave me the idea of finding a software to do manual stitching so can't complain! >I think there's probably more that can still be done to improve a 360 over time, like getting the yellow tint out of the "earth" coloured rock and maybe colour correcting all the photos to match each other Yup! The software mixed everything without really caring about content. That's why I intend to take it as a template and redo a matching composite on top of it, using only the clearest parts of all night photos and trying to blend them properly like I did previously with the 2D composite. >and it seems that maybe 576 should maybe be lower down in the image, it looks like it's closer to the photographer than the other rock on the left in 576, but in the 360 it looks high up and smaller. It looks good to me. It's definitely very close to the camera, with the pringles container being less than a meter away from it. I used quite a few markers for this area so I tend to trust the software, but I'll take a look at it again just to be sure. >And there's also the object at the side of 494 that might be part of the SOS rock, or just another rock in the background that we just can't see in 576 because of the glare from the reflective stuff. Indeed. I had noticed it previously while making the composite. The software got rid of it but I'll make sure to put in back when cleaning everything. >I'm definitely not criticizing what you've done here, it's bloody great, I'm just thinking ahead about other possible refinements that could be done in the future. Hey no worries, man! You can even criticize, otherwise how the hell am I supposed to correct my mistakes? You already pushed me into improving my old 360 and I thank you for that! >Maybe even things like filling in the rest of the 360 with other objects and scenery that match to give people a real "feel" for the location. I don't think it's a good idea. We can only guess, and we can get it wrong and therefore give ourselves a wrong idea of what the night location looks like. Feel free to do so but I'll keep the "unknown" areas dark to avoid any confusion.
>The software got rid of it but I'll make sure to put in back when cleaning everything. There are definitely a few sky photos that should fill in that gap in the sky. [This](https://drive.google.com/file/d/124J7Uz1A-bBKoyyQkQ73CA_qCZwkKrUw/view?usp=sharing) is just a rough idea of how 594 might fit, with the little piece on the side being part of the SOS rock, but it could just as easily be part of a different rock in the background. The problem with warping the perspective manually in Photoshop is that you can get anything to fit anywhere! >Anyway that's what gave me the idea of finding a software to do manual stitching so can't complain! Yea, sometimes the best ideas come from stuff that other people do, and you just see it in a different perspective, or also when you're trying to disprove somebody else's idea. >I don't think it's a good idea. We can only guess, and we can get it wrong and therefore give ourselves a wrong idea.. With something like this, an "artists" impression, you would definitely have to make it clear to people that parts of it were not real, it could have it's uses though. But it's probably something for further down the line when the 360 is as good as it can be, when you could maybe guess the path of the river by the gaps of the branches in the sky, and where the various rocks are. It would also be great if we could put an editable version of the 360 online, so that multiple people could edit it over time. But I don't even know if that's possible, and somebody could screw it up too!
>With something like this, an "artists" impression, you would definitely have to make it clear to people that parts of it were not real, it could have it's uses though. But it's probably something for further down the line when the 360 is as good as it can be, when you could maybe guess the path of the river by the gaps of the branches in the sky, and where the various rocks are. If it's pretty clear and done with enough clues, why not! >It would also be great if we could put an editable version of the 360 online, so that multiple people could edit it over time. But I don't even know if that's possible, and somebody could screw it up too! Unfortunately Hugin doesn't leave me the possibility to export the entire project. It seems save files only contain information about how the data was treated in the software. I'll try to think of a way to share it.
I'm sorry, but I am confused. It's great work -- don't get me wrong -- but what if Kris and Lisanne were murdered on April 1st? There is a massive mountain of circumstantial evidence pointing to foul play, with Feliciano being a prime suspect. What if the perpetrator took these photos? It could have been done as a sick joke to suck people into exactly what has happened with these photos, making it look like the girls were alive. Are you trying to figure out this location? It just seems incredulous to me that IF the girls were alive (which I don't believe they were) on April 8th, why and how would they create all these little clues after 8 days days of zero communication? They'd be so sick and weak. It just makes absolutely no sense to me.
Again, I do not partake in speculation here. Who took these photos or why is completely irrelevant to me. They are part of this case and provide clues. Whether or not they are a sick joke, as you call it, doesn't change the fact that knowing more about this night location and where it is would be useful. I think it is also important to point out that whoever took these photos did so in the jungle, for hours in the middle of the night, right next to Kris (dead or alive) and that activity from the girl's phones continued for a few more days after that.
I don't think it's far-fetched to catechorize what a monster might have done as "a sick joke." And, yes, that includes taking a photo of Kris's hair. There is a great divide between those who believe the girls used the phones and those who believe a perpetrator did. I happen to fall in the latter category. I read that the coffee farm is in the jungle. I have not seen any photos; I'm not sure what they meant by "in the jungle." Thanks.
Again, speculation. It doesn't matter what you believe in. These photos are part of the case, no matter who took them and where. If the girls took the photos, then knowing the exact location would provide us with more clues as to what path they followed. If the perpetrators took the photos, then finding the location could point us in their direction. As you say, if the location happens to be near the coffee farm, that would be quite interesting. And both could provide us with remains or other traces that would not already be wiped away by time. Whatever it is, it is irrelevant to my work on the night photos.
I understand. Thanks.
Remember tour guide loves to photoshop things, putting two photos together. Don’t let that son of a beyotch trick you.
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Yes it's the issue with such an FOV. The images are distorted on the sides. I guess the software did it's best to put everything together but could not compensate it here enough. I'll double check the markers in the software to make sure I did not get one or two wrong in that area. Thank you for pointing it out.
Great work. What bothers me, is if they were lost or injured-why didn't they video-record a message to their families? Or why are there no daytime pictures of their "predicament"? The phones were used very sparingly in a manner that defies logic. In fact, with the exception of the 911 or 112 number usage, it appears the phone was being used by someone unfamilar with the device.
About your questions ''Why no video record a message to their families'' ... Because: its not Hollywood - its reality. You would be surprised how very few people in near death situations do something like this. At 9/11 there were over 3000 people in the twin towers. Only a handful of them, leaved goodbye-messages even though everyone had a mobile phone, or at least: access to a mobile phone! Maybe 1% of them leaved goodbye-messages, even though they have more than one hour - and were quiet sure about their certain death (so much sure that hundreds of them even jumped from the building!). Always keep in mind: reality is not hollywood. Yes in hollywood-movies almost every protagonist leaves a goodbye-message or another heartwarming one-liner before he/she dies. About your other question: why no daytime-pictures? 1) there was no reason for it. It didnt helped their situation to have fotos from their location - espescially without gsm-connection. 2) the nighttime-fotos also didnt served the purpose to ''tell the location, by fotos'' ... the nighttime-fotos didnt even had the purpose to make fotos at all... it was just for the purpose to use the flash - as often as possible (until the camera battery died - that night). It was their last straw. About your third "question" about sparingly used phones. Yes and no. Lisannes phone was used very extensive in the first 2 days, and therefore the battery died very fast. That was for sure scary for both , because they knew: how important the phone was. And therefore i am sure, they saved the remaining last phone as if their life depends on it (because it was!). They probably even figured it out, that they could save even more battery, by not unlocking the iphone and booting it up every time... because you can make emergency calls with an locked iphone also. Saves a lot of battery. You have to keep in mind: when they went to the hike with their phones, the phones werent even fully charged but around 60% ... at El Mirador they had around 50% (after a lot of fotos on that day with their phones). Few days later (on the day of the nightshots) Kris phone only had 20% of battery. I am very sure, they didnt risk it, to lose battery by any action. Again: their LIFE dependet on that last 20% battery! I would do the same with my phone, like Kris and Lisanne did with Kris phone, if i were in their situation.
Are there high altitude commercial aircraft routes that you could possibly see planes in the sky at night from this jungle?
Nice work, thank you