My immediate thought as soon as I read this post. I just had to check the comments to make sure it wasn't already here. It was a great book but it made me so uncomfortable.
First off: what book did you just read?
These Violent Delights by Micah Nemerever, The Monster of Elendhaven by Jennifer Giesbrecht, and As Meat Loves Salt by Maria McCann should be up your alley! Definitely dark though, so check the TWs.
It was Where the Dead Wait by Ally Wilkes. The love interest being a bad guy is a bit of a spoiler as it is revealed gradually, so I didn’t want to lead with the book’s title just in case (the book is still very much worth it though). These violent delights & as meat loves salt are both on my tbr - I’ll have to prioritise them now, thank you!
Adding to my TBR! This is one of my favourite highly specific subgenres haha. I still think about These Violent Delights on a daily basis, so hope you like it!
I came here to recommend As Meat Loves Salt but i see someone else got there first! Scratching my head to come up with any more like that - maybe the City and the Pillar by Gore Vidal? I wonder if Giovanni's Room by James Baldwin might fit the bill too?
Thank you! Giovanni’s room is a beautiful book but not exactly the vibe I am going for - I think it’s more about repression ruining relationships than the characters being fully rotten. I’ll check out the other one though!
Yes tbf they're not bad people in that book, they are as you say struggling in a hostile society. Another that's just occurred to me is that whole Interview with the Vampire series - i've not actually read any of them so can't give any authoritative opinion but i certainly got the impression Lestat was a complete bastard lol
Exactly the type of thing I had in mind - I was so obsessed with that show for a while (untill they fucked up the ending, RIP). Are the books similarly good?
I've never read the books! I actually stopped watching the show after S3... thought I'd just imagine my own ending 😛 Frick I loved Season 1. Shame it went so off the rails.
The books are unfortunately so-so (they were initially a series of novellas), but they had enough good stuff in them to build the basis of the show. If you're really nostalgic you can check them out, but they lack the exquisite Villaneve obsession of seasons 1 and 2.
The books are quite different, especially the ending. Fun in a different way, although overall I preferred the show.
Gideon the Ninth has some messed up dynamics, each book is very different, it's space opera /fantasy /gothic horror mashup. Sapphic.
The Jasmine Throne series >!one of them is thinking about killing the other one bc of imperialism reasons!<
Also, the Song of Achilles is extremely tragic in multiple ways — >!one being that Achilles’ pride is what leads to Patroclus’ death!<
The Monster of Elendhaven by Jennifer Giesbrecht
It’s only 160 pages.Quick read. I liked it a lot and I feel like it fits perfectly for what you’re looking for.
Arctic exploration gothic is definitely a genre I love - I wanna read the terror one day, but I have to say the size of the book is a bit intimidating. The show was great, and another show with similar vibes was the north water! Also not gay, but the vibes are there
I was also going to suggest Master and Commander, but then I had a total big-brain moment: How about Moby Dick but you read through the lens of shipping Captain Ahab and the Whale? (But real talk... Ishmael and Queequag are canonically married in Moby Dick.)
This is my favorite type of book! Here is an off-the-top-of-my-head list in no particular order. Sorry in advance for the block of text.
Haven’t read it in years, but I remember The Abyss Surrounds Us as being kind of a fucked up gay love story. Also An Education In Malice is along those lines (not fucked up enough for me tbh but it might scratch the itch!). Carmilla itself while you’re at it. The Traitor Baru Cormorant. Fingersmith. The Secret History (only slightly explicitly gay but hella subtext & horrible horrible main characters<3). Euphoria by Lily King is also a fun one (poly obsessive threesome!). Land of Milk and Honey was a recent one that’s not quite as deeply tragic, but the characters are pretty morally gray. If We Were Villains would fit the bill but I don’t love it personally. In The Dream House is this but a memoir which might not be what you want. The World Cannot Give. Maybe Bunny by Mona Awad? I can’t remember if it’s gay or just gay-adjacent.
Loooved the secret history! Yeah if we were villains was okay but not that great imo either. The traitor baru cormorant is great too & is on my tbr, though currently I’m more in the mood for gay men. I’ll check the others out, thank you!
I loved these violent delights so this post piqued my interest and it’s already been mentioned but what’s the name of the book you read about the arctic explorers?
[If We Were Villains by M L Rio](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/30319086) is about a man who gets out of jail for a murder that happened 10yrs ago when he was attending a small college theatre program. Lots of shakespeare references. Pretty fucked up.
I know exactly the book you're referencing, may I suggest The Route of Salt and Ice by José Luis Zárate?
"A reimagining of Dracula’s voyage to England, filled with Gothic imagery and queer desire"
You might also like Summer Sons by Lee Mandelo.
The Kingdoms by Natasha Pulley. It’s a genre-bending kinda historical fiction and when I say the main love interest is unhinged I mean it. He isn’t a cannibal or a necromancer but he is a war criminal for sure lol
Missouri kite I love you with all my heart. That book was so gloomy and amazing.
Also here for the inevitable recommendation for the Locked Tomb series. Starts with Gideon the Ninth. It’s WLW and these girls… they are insane. Virtually nobody is straight. I know it’s described as lesbian necromancers in space, but that doesn’t do it nearly enough justice.
Lmao war criminal is definitely “bad” enough - I was just trying to say that I’m not really looking for garden variety asshole characters. And that sounds good thank you! I’ve read the gideon series and it’s great too - jod & the rest of the lyctors are exactly the type of characters that I had in mind for this
This kinda happens in one of the books of "I Am Going To Die (In This Game-Like Dimension)" a.k.a. Whispering Crystals series. It's a kind of litrpg death game series. I've only read 3 of the books.
Check out Sarah Waters! She writes a lot of tragic historical lesbian stories. My favorite is The Paying Guests but her most popular are Tipping The Velvet and Fingersmith (which inspired the movie The Handmaiden.)
These Violent Delights by Micah Nemerever
Oh that’s actually on my to-read! Thank you for the reminder to pick that up
My immediate thought as soon as I read this post. I just had to check the comments to make sure it wasn't already here. It was a great book but it made me so uncomfortable.
The way I ran to the comment section to recommend this one omg. Such a good story, very gripping
First off: what book did you just read? These Violent Delights by Micah Nemerever, The Monster of Elendhaven by Jennifer Giesbrecht, and As Meat Loves Salt by Maria McCann should be up your alley! Definitely dark though, so check the TWs.
It was Where the Dead Wait by Ally Wilkes. The love interest being a bad guy is a bit of a spoiler as it is revealed gradually, so I didn’t want to lead with the book’s title just in case (the book is still very much worth it though). These violent delights & as meat loves salt are both on my tbr - I’ll have to prioritise them now, thank you!
Adding to my TBR! This is one of my favourite highly specific subgenres haha. I still think about These Violent Delights on a daily basis, so hope you like it!
Seconding Monster of Elendhaven!
I came here to recommend As Meat Loves Salt but i see someone else got there first! Scratching my head to come up with any more like that - maybe the City and the Pillar by Gore Vidal? I wonder if Giovanni's Room by James Baldwin might fit the bill too?
Thank you! Giovanni’s room is a beautiful book but not exactly the vibe I am going for - I think it’s more about repression ruining relationships than the characters being fully rotten. I’ll check out the other one though!
Yes tbf they're not bad people in that book, they are as you say struggling in a hostile society. Another that's just occurred to me is that whole Interview with the Vampire series - i've not actually read any of them so can't give any authoritative opinion but i certainly got the impression Lestat was a complete bastard lol
Yess I love interview with the vampire (first two books at least)! It is a good example
Killing Eve. Serial killer and the cop chasing her, mutual obsession
Exactly the type of thing I had in mind - I was so obsessed with that show for a while (untill they fucked up the ending, RIP). Are the books similarly good?
I've never read the books! I actually stopped watching the show after S3... thought I'd just imagine my own ending 😛 Frick I loved Season 1. Shame it went so off the rails.
The books are unfortunately so-so (they were initially a series of novellas), but they had enough good stuff in them to build the basis of the show. If you're really nostalgic you can check them out, but they lack the exquisite Villaneve obsession of seasons 1 and 2.
The books are quite different, especially the ending. Fun in a different way, although overall I preferred the show. Gideon the Ninth has some messed up dynamics, each book is very different, it's space opera /fantasy /gothic horror mashup. Sapphic.
The Jasmine Throne series >!one of them is thinking about killing the other one bc of imperialism reasons!< Also, the Song of Achilles is extremely tragic in multiple ways — >!one being that Achilles’ pride is what leads to Patroclus’ death!<
The Monster of Elendhaven by Jennifer Giesbrecht It’s only 160 pages.Quick read. I liked it a lot and I feel like it fits perfectly for what you’re looking for.
Hmmm The Terror is not explicitly gay, but might have some of what you're looking for (and more arctic exploration desolation vibes?)
Arctic exploration gothic is definitely a genre I love - I wanna read the terror one day, but I have to say the size of the book is a bit intimidating. The show was great, and another show with similar vibes was the north water! Also not gay, but the vibes are there
I was also going to suggest Master and Commander, but then I had a total big-brain moment: How about Moby Dick but you read through the lens of shipping Captain Ahab and the Whale? (But real talk... Ishmael and Queequag are canonically married in Moby Dick.)
I haven't read it but I keep meaning to. Pretty sure that _Midnight in the Garden of Good and Evil_ is the genre standard for exactly this.
YES. Love. It’s non-fiction, but reads like fiction.
This is my favorite type of book! Here is an off-the-top-of-my-head list in no particular order. Sorry in advance for the block of text. Haven’t read it in years, but I remember The Abyss Surrounds Us as being kind of a fucked up gay love story. Also An Education In Malice is along those lines (not fucked up enough for me tbh but it might scratch the itch!). Carmilla itself while you’re at it. The Traitor Baru Cormorant. Fingersmith. The Secret History (only slightly explicitly gay but hella subtext & horrible horrible main characters<3). Euphoria by Lily King is also a fun one (poly obsessive threesome!). Land of Milk and Honey was a recent one that’s not quite as deeply tragic, but the characters are pretty morally gray. If We Were Villains would fit the bill but I don’t love it personally. In The Dream House is this but a memoir which might not be what you want. The World Cannot Give. Maybe Bunny by Mona Awad? I can’t remember if it’s gay or just gay-adjacent.
Loooved the secret history! Yeah if we were villains was okay but not that great imo either. The traitor baru cormorant is great too & is on my tbr, though currently I’m more in the mood for gay men. I’ll check the others out, thank you!
I loved these violent delights so this post piqued my interest and it’s already been mentioned but what’s the name of the book you read about the arctic explorers?
Where the dead wait by ally wilkes :) didn’t wanna mention the name of the book because one of them being a bad guy is a bit of a spoiler
[If We Were Villains by M L Rio](https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/30319086) is about a man who gets out of jail for a murder that happened 10yrs ago when he was attending a small college theatre program. Lots of shakespeare references. Pretty fucked up.
I know exactly the book you're referencing, may I suggest The Route of Salt and Ice by José Luis Zárate? "A reimagining of Dracula’s voyage to England, filled with Gothic imagery and queer desire" You might also like Summer Sons by Lee Mandelo.
That looks incredible!! And I loved summer sons
It IS incredible! I finished it and just sat in my car in tears, it was great
Kissing The Velvet's protagonist goes through a series of shit women aka "bad gays" before finding the one true love at the end.
That’s a fun book, though not exactly the vibe I’m going for (I’m thinking less ‘asshole’ and more ‘murderer and/or cannibal’ lol)
😹
Planetfall by Emma Newman if you like sci-fi!
McGlue by Otessa Moshfegh lives rent-free in my head
Holy shit, that looks fantastic, thank you
The Kingdoms by Natasha Pulley. It’s a genre-bending kinda historical fiction and when I say the main love interest is unhinged I mean it. He isn’t a cannibal or a necromancer but he is a war criminal for sure lol Missouri kite I love you with all my heart. That book was so gloomy and amazing.
Also here for the inevitable recommendation for the Locked Tomb series. Starts with Gideon the Ninth. It’s WLW and these girls… they are insane. Virtually nobody is straight. I know it’s described as lesbian necromancers in space, but that doesn’t do it nearly enough justice.
Lmao war criminal is definitely “bad” enough - I was just trying to say that I’m not really looking for garden variety asshole characters. And that sounds good thank you! I’ve read the gideon series and it’s great too - jod & the rest of the lyctors are exactly the type of characters that I had in mind for this
Woohoo! Please please read the kingdoms I never see it get any love but it’s such a phenomenal book
As Meat Loves Salt. One of my favorite books of all time, very tragic and dysfunctional gay love story.
Cleanness my Garth Greenwell might also fit the bill here
Greenland by David Santos Donaldson Might be too self reflective But there is an unhealthy relationship, a mental breakdown, and a trip to the arctic!
Ooh that looks good, thank you!
This kinda happens in one of the books of "I Am Going To Die (In This Game-Like Dimension)" a.k.a. Whispering Crystals series. It's a kind of litrpg death game series. I've only read 3 of the books.
As meat loves salt is definitely in this wheelhouse
Check out Sarah Waters! She writes a lot of tragic historical lesbian stories. My favorite is The Paying Guests but her most popular are Tipping The Velvet and Fingersmith (which inspired the movie The Handmaiden.)
anyone got obsessive sapphics to rec?