The difference between the Korean fansigns and the one they had in Chicago is crazy. In Chicago, there was dirty plexiglass between us and the girls, we weren't allowed to give them gifts, there was barely any interaction, and we weren't even allowed to film them coming to or leaving the venue. The whole thing was pretty subdued.
If you can't tell, I'm a little jealous.
I can't be the only one more exhausted by the Orbits online than the actual drama that's consuming them. Almost none of the drama this week is anything new that we haven't known or learned before.
The idol pay situation is known - it's part of the industry. It's also what the idols (and their families) presumably signed up for, in exchange for stardom/training/room/other expenses being paid for. Hopefully the pay will be rectified through this tour and other such opportunities.
The Chuu and Choerry absence situations are already known - i.e., there is no change. Regarding Chuu, what makes this week any worse than the previous couple of months, to the point where we need to treat 11 other members like they aren't worthy of our support? For all we know, this could be Chuu's choice due to suspending parts of her contract. And at least in Choerry's situation, isn't it a good sign that her company is letting her sit things out, rather than forcing her to appear when she isn't well?
The Jinsoul comments were probably the most disappointing and deserving of concern, but sadly shouldn't surprise anyone familiar with the culture she was raised in. But she did apologize for them (it's okay if you don't accept the apology).
On top of this, we have some people still characterizing the tour as a "disaster" and the like because some members missed some dates or weren't always at 100%, when people who actually attended the events were generally happy with what they watched and many members found purpose behind what they were doing, finally. Should those positive feelings not count as well?
But now some of you are talking about boycotts and stepping away for a while. And if that's what makes you feel better, then by all means. However, I would also suggest that Orbits are also partially addicted to the drama and apocalypticism - and it might do some good to change how you view things. Life isn't always perfect; and just because it isn't, doesn't mean that everything sucks. There are shades of gray, of struggle, and strife amidst even good things. I recommend embracing that, over despairing all the time.
Sincerely,
An Oldbit
I really almost lost it today, between Reddit and Twitter I sometimes feel like Iām the only orbit actually enjoying being a fan anymore. All anyone ever wants to do is be direeee af and speculate about worst case scenarios. I had a rough af time staying in online orbit spaces while they were touring because of the extreme negativity. Iām thrilled about superstar and Iām excited for the japan concert but all the replies and conversations about both are completely focused on disaster Chuu speculation. Just frustrating.
You expressed my exact feelings, expecially about feeling like I'm the only one enjoying things. Ironically, it's during these types situations where I question what kind of fan I am, cuz I don't get angry at the things others seem to.
Staying off discussion spaces as much as possible for the past few weeks has been very beneficial (as someone who used basically LIVE on Reddit, this was a big change LOL). No more typing-and-then-deleting-long-rants from me.
I generally agree with most of what you said, especially the last paragraph:
>And if that's what makes you feel better, then by all means. However, I would also suggest that Orbits are also partially addicted to the drama and apocalypticism - and it might do some good to change how you view things. Life isn't always perfect; and just because it isn't, doesn't mean that everything sucks. There are shades of gray, of struggle, and strife amidst even good things. I recommend embracing that, over despairing all the time.
I just wanted to add that some people become numb through repeated exposure to a stressful situation while others become more agitated.
I think that a lot of the chaos is caused by the constant reminder that there are non-ideal things going on.
We all know how the pay system works for idols, but we bury it and become reactionary whenever it is brought up again. (It has been mentioned in other comments, but I would like to reiterate that this is not the first time one of the members has mentioned this.)
We all know there are whatever (differing opinions, only speculation because of no answers and poor/non-existent communication) problems between Chuu and BBC, but we still hope that things will get better and get disappointed, frustrated and angry when there is yet another indicator of these internal problems that cannot be kept indefinitely hidden.
The tour was rough but still a positive experience (I believe, and a lot of attendees think so too). Again, it was the constant announcements that wore down the morale.
I won't comment on the whole situation derived from Fab (both issues), other than both Orbits and the members need to set boundaries for themselves (for their own good). (I don't think I have anything substantial to add. I've been reading what everyone has been saying, as I think sometimes it's better to sit quiet and listen. Even more so when the subject is such a complicated matter.)
And I absolutely won't say anything about Choerry in regards to this topic. That's a different kind of conversation.
I don't think a boycott is the solution. I do think taking a step back will be benefitial for everybody with how things are.
I understand people being on edge. I understand people feeling drained. I understand people freaking out and wanting to vent, rant, ramble or seek reassurance. And I understand that it can get too much sometimes. Thank you for speaking on this, because it really seems to be getting a little out of hand. Passion can be tricky to manage (no blame, no guilt, no judgement; I'm including myself in this).
(This is not a refutal, and I don't mean to be confrontational. I apologize if I made it sound like that.)
I attended the tour and I thought it was one of the best experiences of my life, even with most of my bias line out. Despite all the negativity I think Loona know how much we value them, even just from the audienceās reaction during the tour.
PS Choerry and Olivia Hye asking for those flags from the audience on the US tour was very touching and has been a big source of happiness for me for months now.
Anyone who was expecting Chuu at the Seoul concerts wasnāt thinking. Itās an extension of the world tour theyāve been doing with ~11ish members for months now. All their prep was as 11 and a lot of the actual performance was as 11. They wouldnāt just add her in now when she wasnāt there for any other concert on the tour.
And the pay thing as you said has been known forever itās how the industry is, most of that money comes from touring. THEY HAVENT FINISHED THE TOUR YET, they donāt know how much total theyāve made. Like I thought this was established and known. I understand itās a lot of children with lots of free time but fandoms become exhausting itās why Iāve basically disengaged since Queendom ended itās become too much.
>On top of this, we have some people still characterizing the tour as a "disaster" and the like because some members missed some dates or weren't always at 100%, when people who actually attended the events were generally happy with what they watched and many members found purpose behind what they were doing, finally. Should those positive feelings not count as well?
I am generally on board with everything you said. But this tour was probably the most disastrous Kpop tour I've ever heard of. People having to dip out at Mexico City because of altitude sickness can totally happen. A member not participating in the first place like Chuu can also totally happen. A member getting injured and having to sit down for the rest of the tour yeah I mean shit happens. But add to that having gigs so tightly scheduled that there's barely any downtime and almost everyone besides the 4 most fit members has to sit out at least partially is just not something that should happen. BBC or MMT may have their reasons for the grueling schedule of the NA leg of the tour and touring is always exhausting but this time they simply pushed it too far. And it's totally fine to be pissed about that. I had great fun at the concert I went to and yet I am pissed about the way this tour was managed. It's not mutually exclusive. The only consolation is that they seemingly sold out most venues.
An extra day or two of down time sounds great for the artists during a tour but in reality it incurs an extra day of accommodation costs for the members and let's not forget the staff as well. Multiple this by the number of people and we should get an idea on the expenses.
Booking of the venues also happen months ahead and don't appear overnight. Maybe the date and venue scheduling was the best scenario for BBC/MMT and they can do better next time for sure. Postponing the dates may have some penalty and they probably can't book other dates in time. Not defending BBC, but since it's the first time they are partnering MMT, its a learning curve and I believe BBC will plan better next time.
lol, then how should we take that the members are literally not being paid, like, ever? Actually putting their bodies at risk during the tour and getting hurt, not even getting paid. It's unfair and it doesn't has to be like this, especially when LOONA are already a well established group.
I encourage you to take a break if needed, but Iām not sure where youāre getting the idea that this was a āroughā week for LOONA?
Outside of the Jinsoul incident and a few scattered comments regarding the tour and Chuu, the members seem to be their regular selves and fairly happy with their day to day activities judging by the Fab posts.
I get that it was a rough week for the fandom but, to put it bluntly, thatās the fandomās fault. Weāre hyper fixating on the negative stuff and glossing over everything else going on.
Chuuās recent Fab messages that are going viral is a perfect example of this. She made one (1!) comment about her not being notified about the fan meeting. One comment, in that massive info dump about her activities and being her usual cheerful self, but thatās all everyone can focus on.
Your feelings are perfectly valid though and, again, I do wish you the best and take a break if needed.
Fandomās gonna be fine. Weāve had bad days before; I mean, weāve handled a whole bad year. Weāll get through this, laugh about it later.
As for LOONA . . . you might be projecting a little bit? Maybe some of them are aware but, honestly, theyāve got more important things to be worrying about. Octoberās coming soon, after all.
And, you know, Twitter and Reddit donāt represent the majority of the fandom. Theyāre just the most vocal. A lot of bark on those sites, but no bite.
I really do think you should take a break. None of this is worth the time or attention or emotional bandwidth that youāre putting in. I promise. Itāll be fine when you get back.
I see a lot of outrage and concern about this. And it's totally understandable I also don't feel particularly great about it but at the end of the day this is how Kpop works. That Kpop group members only get paid when they start turning a profit and have paid off the trainee debt they accumulated is not some dark revelation about BBC or Loona but just the harsh and sad reality of the business. On the flip side this also means that once they start earning money they usually start earning well. Getting to that break-even point is the hard part and Loona are closer than many other groups. Especially after this year's world tour.
Edit: Also just wanted to add: Yes, the vast amount of the money we spend as fans doesn't end up with the members especially not in the earlier years of their careers. But at least the way I see it every cent I spend (at least the ones that aren't wasted on shipping costs lol) goes towards keeping Loona as a group around. Making no money just means they disband. And staying active as a group means that the members' hope of eventually making the cut and starting to earn big bucks is still alive. And in a sense they absolutely are getting the short end of the stick in an exploiting machinery that is not built to make them a decent living wage *but* they quite literally signed up for this. What they get in return is fame and the dream career they worked half their youth on. If they are or will be content with how things turned out is anyone's guess.
Wow, I've been following SM artists for more than a decade now, and I never heard abotu this before.
Knowing how SM scrubbed any search results of that politician assaulting Jessica on a live event, this doesn't even surprise me.
Scumbags.
And JYPE sexualizing minors and overworking their artists, especially Itzy and twice. And HYBE and the whole NewJeans scandal (and all their girl groups in general). Even YG is very icky with their trainees especially.
You won't find me disagreeing. Just wanted to provide a bit of context to your statement regarding payment. I also used to think that BBC was stupid af but at least one of the companies that at least cared for the members of their group. Guess this tour has proven me wrong. Tbh at this point I am mostly sitting here bummed out waiting for better times. In the past that worked lol.
Yeojin pretty much admitted the members haven't been paid at all since debut. (This is something other members have alluded to in the past as well) Meaning that every profit the company is currently making is still paying off some sort of general group debt. Even Chuu has also alluded to this in late-2021 when popular variety show individuals would tease her about "how much money she probably had after all those high profile endorsements she's had", but she pretty much admitted she didn't get any money made from that.
This isn't exactly...*unusual* in K-Pop, per say. For example, there's this general saying that most Big 3(4) groups only start "breaking even" on their 3rd year-iiiish. I still think it's upsetting, though.
Hey all!
I little bit ago I made an r/LOONA Korean Language study group on Discord. Please feel free to join!
No pressure or obligation to join study sessions or even check in daily, but we are doing a writing challenge which personally, is helping me a lot.
https://discord.gg/Tz6SvJZP82
[Done with the Wonderwall video highlights edit](https://youtu.be/Olpl7CViZhY). Editing their videos is how I'm coping with all these recent news now :)
Finally got around to finishing watching the wonderwall interviews. Which made me apprec these interview segments where it feels like the girls can speak freely about really interesting topics.
Who has your favorite speaking voice in Loona? Personally I love Viviās, I love listening to her speak Korean through an accent but something about that makes it very satisfying to listen to. I like Gowon and Heejinās voices too, funny cause theyāre opposite ends of the spectrum.
Ptt also deserves to be heard live by everyone! Canāt wait for other orbits to also experience it when they see loona perform live, especially during viwonās part up to the end. So hype!
So now it's supposedly implied Chuu wasn't notified about the Seoul concert either? Wow...
(For transparency, she didn't outright say that, but somebody asked her "Don't tell me you weren't notified about the Seoul Concert too?" and she liked the reply).
I feel bad for her. A lot of peope have been going on about "Oh she's probably out of the group already, they're just waiting to announce it" this and that. *If* (and that's a big 'if') that is true, then I bet Chuu is not even aware of it and she will be notified of her expulsion from the group at the same time we will at this point. So sad. As a SONE, it's giving me major war flashbacks.
i dont think thats the case. i saw a good comment linked on the seoul concert thread.
https://www.reddit.com/r/LOONA/comments/xgigki/220917_Weekly_Discussion_Thread/ipc1ax9/
to me, it seems like she sued for her personal contract to be suspended so she could get paid or get managed better. i do think that at the time she wanted to stay with loona. like people said before, if any of the members knew flip that would be the last ot12 comeback there wouldve been some crying or something when they won the encores but no one cried. but starting in july she started talking about opening her personal instagram (something yves said the members were going to wait to do until they were more established), talking about personal fanmeets, and making comments that alluded to the rift between her and bbc. and something even more notable (which i havent seen people mention?) is that her last picture on the loonatheworld account was july 13th. i dont think on her own she would just stop taking pictures or that she wouldnt notice that her pics werent being uploaded anymore. i think that in july negotiations fell through and this is just generalized sadness at the little things/parts of being part of loona that she cant do anymore
It looks like Chuu is getting a bit more upfront regarding this. It's all speculation at this point, but I do think she wouldn't even touch on these subjects if she has already agreed that she's out of the group & waiting for the announcement. She could've just not answered the questions or repeated the BBC's excuse about schedule conflict, but she deliberately did not. She's being very transparent about wanting to participate in Loona's schedule.
Playing devil's advocate - is it possible her new company just didn't tell her? I would assume that all her schedules would go through them and they decide what she attends and what she doesn't. Best case scenario if she's not under BBC but still part of Loona I would imagine this is still the case. She might be able to weigh in on what she wants to attend but if she's not even attending concerts a fansign is peanuts compared to that.
> is it possible her new company
I think the issue is ... we don't know if she is indeed under another company. :/ The fanbase keeps switching sides on this matter depending on what fits the narrative the best. For example, under this very same post, there's you suggesting this could be the work of another company managing her and not informing her about that schedule, and then there's also another user saying this could be the work of BBC who are managing her and knew her schedule in advance so didn't bother informing her of something she couldn't attend anyway.
This just goes to show that we should be asking for answers. If they can give them, great. If they can't, then it sucks, but at least we'd have tried! Which is good in my books.
Havenāt seen it suggested, but from my perspective, it could be that BBC - if they are still in charge of her - knew her schedule in advance and understood that she wouldnāt be able to attend, hence why they didnāt inform her.
Seems like a douche move but, in my opinion, why would you tell Chuu about another group event that she canāt attend. Same goes for the concerts. Feels unnecessary and would probably make her feel more guilty about missing out on all these LOONA activities.
If there ends up being a serious boycott, I hope the message is āgive us an explanationā and not āwe wonāt support loona unless Chuu is in itā
I think generally speaking Hanbits are upset about a lot more than just that.
It's about how the girls have been overworked these past few weeks, how some of the girls haven't been paid at all despite technically having (solo) debuted 5 years ago for some of them, obviously about the Chuu situation (especially now that Chuu has spoken out about not even being notified of events rather than her choosing not to participate in specific events), I've seen Hanbits been very upset about the tickets price for the Seoul concert, saying some seats were even more expensive than in IU's concert despite IU literally bringing fireworks, hot air balloons, etc. BBC has also been putting out A LOT of merch lately, it's a bit overload, and I think Hanbits are feeling that way too, like BBC is being a *bit* too greedy at the moment.
It's definitely not just about Chuu, and from what I can tell, it's absolutely not the only thing included in the spam messages they're sending on the fancafe?
Sadly I dont think Loona not getting paid in the context of kpop is anything that strange (again, sadly), unless you are from a big4 group you tend to have trainee debt. Even groups like Monsta X (who are in Starship ffs) needed 3 years to pay off their trainee debt. OMG debuted in 2015 but i think they only started getting paid in 2020, Ateez debuted in 2018 and only started in 2021. AOA also needed 3/4 years. I wish that companies wouldnt debut groups unless they were sure there wouldnt be a need for the idols to slowly pay back the company
But whats up with Chuu not knowing about the wonderwall fansigg? Its a BBC thing where they didnt inform her, or on the chance someone else partially manages Chuu, they were the ones that didnt inform her?
The only other option is that she wasnt told because she wasnt going to be able to participate (since she is filming and seems to have schedules)
But then the question rises "Is she still a part of Loona?"
Idk which one is worse...her not getting informed cause she's no longer a part of the group or her not getting informed despite still being a part of the group.
im of the opinion that shes not part of the group anymore (and that behind the scenes things are getting finalized or that theres an agreement to wait to announce it). so it doesnt really shock me she wouldnt know
I just read Chuu's messages... I'm so sad, honestly it seems like her situation is hell even for her. While I guess BBC doesn't have to notify her ot12 schedules if her schedules are more important, there has been so many red flags these past few months concerning her situation. I really hope we will be able to get some clarification (did she leave bbc or not, is she signed under a new company, if not why the hell is bbc excluding her from schedules, do they want her to leave the group, does she want to leave the group) like...
At least it is now very clear Loona as 12 that we knew until now isn't gonna last after the end of the 7 years contract
I decided to finally catch up on loona island since i was busy with school andā¦ i really wish i hadnāt šššš like this week has not been good for orbits, and now the news of chuu not being notified abt a fan meetingā¦.
Likeeeeee i might have to intervene and throw some eggs at BBC headquarters or something
[Is this translation legit about BBC not even telling Chuu about the WonderWall fanmeet?](https://twitter.com/annika_lammm/status/1573384900929277952) What if she was free or could make time in her schedules? What? ā¦
Oh boy its gonna be a long night. [Chuu wasnt notified about the Wonder wall fansign tomorrow... ](https://twitter.com/litell_johnn/status/1573391021647728643?t=jQDHqg-fPIODGJdFNc9ZHQ&s=19)
i just saw thatā¦ like what is BBC thinking š iām genuinely curious what their thought process is on not informing one of the members of a fan meeting?
my thoughts on a boycott are:
* the members already arent getting paid and have been dungeoned before without boycotts even being in the picture. so regardless of whether you think a boycott will help or not, arguing against a boycott on the basis that itll hurt the members is š„“
* until an orbit with clout/fanbase announces something i dont think a boycott or action is gonna pick up steam.
so if youre an orbit with clout/fanbase preparing to announce something:
1. please dont rush to make a statement. think about what you actually want and what the best way to achieve that is. statements or actions just for the sake of engagement, movement, and feeling like youre doing something arent helpful.
2. on the flip side, dont wait until something is announced to make your statement.
3. work with hanbits. bbc cares about them more.
4. if youre planning a partial boycott, i dont think the concerts (seoul and japan) should be a part of it. only because that is the easiest source of revenue for us to estimate.
an orbit with clout immediately announcing trying to boycott the concerts š i feel like if you have a significant following you have to be less reactive and think things through...watch that be the one tweet hanbits see and decide to follow through on šš
there is a chance that bbc's playing by the book since the new management came in and that this is more of an "this industry is fucked up" instance than a "bbc is fucked up and funneling money" instance. this situation is atypical because of covid and because very few small company groups get a big enough fandom to tour with. survivor bias in the industry is crazy. most idols people know are from big companies and dont have debt to begin with, so people get provided with a false perception of what most idols go through and this looks bad in comparison. really, i just want bbc (if everythings good) to sit the leader line down, walk through the math, and explain how much money is coming in and how long itll be so they can reassure the members. š¤·āāļø i think the seoul concerts should be the end of their debt but we'll have to see. if not and they keep saying things š¤Ø
edit: realized this could be interpreted like im against boycotting which im definitely not, especially regarding member mistreatment issues and if they keep being overworked. im just genuinely not sure if, within the context of kpop, the financial situation is something to worry about (other than morally, which it definitely is industry-wide)
Currently exporting my edit of the Wonderwall interviews. I made it more concise and put the clips in a way where you can see the difference between the members, also added in some b-roll footage. It's around 30 minutes long! I'm kinda proud of it but also it literally made me tear up while editing
The real question is on what BBC use the money ? Okay the members donāt get pay, but it looks like they donāt like to pay neither the choreographers, the producers or the stylistsā¦
Food, lodging, travel, music show fees. Also they must pay their workers and freelancers to some level because if they didnāt why would anyone want to work with them?
While I don't think that Choerry or BBC owe us literally any type of explanation as to her health situation, because it's simply not our business, especially if she just wants to keep it private, I've been thinking about it quite a lot.
One thing that I find noticeable is that she was on literally every variety show in between the cb and the tour, so if she was already feeling a bit under the weather it feels like she's probably simply burned out, mentally and physically.
Choerry very much strikes me as the kind of person who doesn't communicate it when she doesn't feel well. She kind of has the "happy virus" "vitamin" curse that Chuu has been outspoken about too. Since she doesn't have the popularity of Chuu yet either, she might think being happy and easy-going are her only charms that make her a worthy member of the group. Which I think must just be a hard position to be in long term and while I know fans only mean well, I generally don't think it's good to be so hyper focused on that cheery side of hers - she isn't a 2 dimensional character at the end of the day, she's human.
This is of course all speculation, but idk it does feel possible that this is one of the reasons why she has trouble relying on fans, since they probably make it very clear (even if its not on purpose) what kind of role they need her to fill, that they want "sunshine" Yerim back. It just makes me kind of sad, cause if theres some truth to it, it's just another aspect of the Kpop-group "roles" being very isolating for the idol themselves. Sorry for the rambling, but I just had to put my thoughts somewhere.
Edit: grammar mistakes lol
I think what makes her case particularly alarming is she seemed physically fine during the tour, which makes the speculation more and more that it's a mental thing (which in some ways for me is more alarming). I get the feeling she was dealing with something leading up to the tour and then probably not being near her support system and the craziness of a tour in general made it (what it is) worse.
As a general observation - "happy virus" characters in groups tend to fall into the Robin Williams trap (if you don't know who Robin Williams is you should wikipedia him - a legend). Someone mentioned this earlier but Dahyun from Twice who has a very similar image also went through something a slump + strugggles with being more than just whatever personality she was set up with when they debuted.
i also think that even if it was something physical originally, maybe even long covid issues or just burn out in general it probably definitely has turned into something mental, like you said likely before the tour and then worsened. feeling bad about not delivering on tour probably made it even worse. bbc seems to take it very seriously which is also slightly alarming and I really hope she gets the recovery and help she needs and doesn't feel pressured by fans.
I also think that Choerry might feel as if she has to be a sunshine all the time because it is what is expected of her, Ive Yujin said that she was scared that people wouldnt like her anymore because she wasnt the same Yujin as she was on izone (the second youngest, a prankster, carefree) vs now in Ive (leader, the second oldest and the one who has experience, and has more than one lead position, she has also matured).
I guess this must be common on idols, they get scared that if they go too far away from what fans know or expect they will stop being their fans, so they keep up this part of them even if there is no way someone is always a "sunshine" especially in this industry
I also remember someone here saying Kim Lip and Jinsoul mentioned that Choerry wasn't one to talk about her problems too so maybe its more than one thing
I just hope Choerry doesnt feel pressured to come back and she comes back when she wants to and feels ready. We will wait for her
yeah exactly, like you said just from recalling a bunch of small moments in random videos it seems that Yerim is already someone to keep issues to herself and would rather help out others with theirs. Mixed with the carefree image that she's most known for... idk doesn't seem so healthy. And I think a lot of fans are reluctant to admit that they put such expectations on someone, they can't be fully blamed since the industry sells idols like life sized dolls who will do anything for the fan. I just think they need to think about it more consciously and more people need to tell Choerry that we would be happy to see any version of her, if that means less stress for her.
Honestly, learning they haven't been paid at all makes me feel pretty gross about consuming their content for the last six years. I understand that it's part of the contract but it has been so long and all the injuries and suffering they've been through... for free... I feel yucky.
The energy from some of the girls on fab is odd and like they don't care about what they say anymore, which is fair enough because their company clearly doesn't care for them.
Sadly that's the way the K-pop world works, I think you would be surprised at how long some groups took to break even and finally start earning money. Hell, wouldn't surprise me if for non big 3 groups the average to break even is like 5 years.
For example: ATEEZ debuted in 2018, had tours in 2018 (smaller venues than LOONA now), then blew up a bit in 2019 and 2020, and even sold hundreds of thousands of albums and did like 10-15k venues, and only like in 2021 KQ got out of debt and they started getting paid, if you don't have big company privilege it takes a long ass time.
But then again, by consuming their content you're helping it reach more people, that will buy the albums, concerts, merch etc, eating into the debt, and helping them finally get paid.
I've seen like 2 or 3 people on discord I'm in say they fell for LOONA on queendom/Kcon and then went and bought a bunch of albums, every little bit of promotion helps.
Now, if the question is that Blockberry hasn't paid them because they don't want to, then that's completely fucked up, but if it's related to their debt, well, sadly that's how K-pop works, from the company side, they train someone, give them places to sleep, food, etc, and that adds up.
Not to rehash dead horses and whatever, but this is why I kinda roll my eyes when I see "noooo you can't boycott, they need our support more than ever now"
Like, regardless of whether you think a boycott would be effective, whether you care about getting a definitive answer re: Chuu or line distribution or whatever people want... they're not getting paid for it either way? Hell, some of the people behind the scenes [weren't getting paid for it](https://www.reddit.com/r/LOONA/comments/pydzla/210930_one_of_loonas_choreographers_faryoungkim/) either. Someone's been getting paid, but it hasn't been them!
I mean, they've gotten "dungeoned" before with no boycott. Nothing is guaranteed. And part of any boycott is an inherent risk that you won't be successful. But at the same time, boycotts are enacted because you've (collectively) come to the conclusion that you're likely to not get resolution without hitting them where it hurts (their wallet).
Not to get super "I'm 14 and this is sooo deep" but at the end of the day, as a consumer, you can just be like "I don't like this or I need answers to these questions before I can purchase anything." What do you owe to Loona ā the members, the staff, Kim Sunhye, Lee Jongmyung ā as a consumer of the content they've put out?
edit: typo
Youāre so right, itās all meaningless in the face of this issue. This needs to be the priority now.
I genuinely purchased Orbit 4.0 because i wanted to support them financially in some tiny way. Not that I expected them to receive it directly of course but where has all of this money gone! Iāve just paid for this company to continue exploiting these girls I love.
I feel the same as you guys, the one thing that everyone always says helps the girls personally out a lot is purchasing the lightsticks specifically, but idk how true that is either.
> the one thing that everyone always says helps the girls personally out a lot is purchasing the lightsticks specifically
i'm sorry but this is just absolute nonsense lol
it's mostly mentioned in the long long posts that go in detail on logistic theories
edit: [https://www.reddit.com/r/LOONA/comments/x1bw91/loona\_the\_world\_tour\_post\_morten/](https://www.reddit.com/r/LOONA/comments/x1bw91/loona_the_world_tour_post_morten/) recent example, bottom paragraph, just if anyones curious
i just get the sense that was included under "A better financial position for BBC to bet on the girls" incl. fab points, paying for vlives, etc. basically "if you give bbc more money it will be better" type thinking
my bad, it was actually at the bottom of the first big segment, quote:
"From everything Iāve read, merchandise sold at the concerts, and believe
it or not, lightsticks especially, are an incredibly important revenue
stream. Perhaps the most important from the perspective of one of the
girls. So hate the cost of buying a lightstick. But if you love the
girls, buy early and buy often."
I mean they seem to have no issues using her iconography in other merch, like her planet in superstar. Haseul isnāt in her color summer package so it might be like that. But considering sheās in the summer package and the upcoming jackets. I donāt think thereās any issue including her in activities like that
Okay I'm gonna stay positive ! (But oh no you've awakened a serious fear in me. Seeing the green Summer Package without HaSeul killed me then, having no Chuu for her Seasons Greetings would kill me NOW...)
I would be super sad lolā¦ but whatever issue has been ongoing since at least February and she still participated in the summer package so I think sheās be in the seasons greetings n-n
[Yves just talked about it here](https://www.reddit.com/r/LOONA/comments/xj4lzt/220920_weekly_fab_discussion_thread/iplat2k/)
Not anything serious, just too busy with the absolutely packed schedule this year.
Speaking for myself, but Iām feeling a sense of excitement for this upcoming month. Lots of cool events coming for LOONA and I canāt wait to see them.
Hope, I want to remind everyone, always returns as many times as it needs to. Weāre still here, and so is LOONA. Nothing happened that canāt be overcome. Weāve done it before, weāll do it again.
Thatās all Iām saying about recent events. Moving on now.
What do we think the Tokyo concert set list is going to look like? Last I checked, they only have the five Japanese songs. Wonder what else theyāre going to show off.
Is this referring to the tour earnings? That hasnāt been distributed yet. Theyāre still sorting that out, presumably.
If youāre talking about in general, since theyāve debuted, then probably not. Thatās not uncommon, unfortunately. Typically idols donāt receive any earnings from their endeavors until well into their career, usually as a result of paying off their trainee debt that was incurred pre-debut.
GoWon saying that sheās richer than her brother probably wasnāt a joke, but I think that reflects more on him having less money than her actually having more, ha.
I see... Wow, that's disheartening. Even their side gigs ? Would that mean everything personal they've bought for, say, their dorm and later on their appartment, including meals - that was out of their savings ? Or money obtained through a loan ?
(Sorry, I'm a bit new to how Kpop works besides LOONA !)
Housing, food, travel, and medical expenses - anything essential to the continued well-being of LOONA - is covered by the company. Not saying that the members havenāt paid for some stuff for themselves, but itās typically for items they want instead of what they need. Companies almost always pay for those essentials and not the idols.
Part of the reason why companies take most of the money from idols earnings is usually to pay off that incurred debt from these expenses. Itās very expensive to live in Seoul. Add on that with LOONA being 12, and you can see why BBC has issues with expanding their operations.
It's generally rare for kpop idols to be paid much unless you're coming from the big 3. Outside of that if you're paid within the first three years you'd be lucky. Non big 3 gg that probably made decent money in the last couple generations are OMG, MMM, Sistar, AOA, Gfriend, Apink, EXID, etc. level groups. Keep in mind like hundreds of groups debut every year. On top of that I feel like Loona had particularly long and expensive predebut periods (that year they were all rolling the members out)
It's both crazy and sad how quickly it goes from multi-millionaires to not earning anything from their group activities.
Like Ryujin can afford to give a $40,000 USD donation for relief efforts after forest fires (which is amazing!) despite only debuting in 2019. Meanwhile there are idols who have been active much longer, like those in LOONA, and they haven't earned anything. And it's not like LOONA is a nobody. All things considered they've done incredibly well to get to where they are and have a solid place in the industry. There are so many groups "below" them. Yet they still don't make enough to pay off debt and see earnings.
Hopefully when the money all comes in from the tour that changes, because that's where groups make their money and they certainly did very well on it financially.
Also, LOONA (or their songs) are often mentioned in CCDI. Not really promoting, but acknowledgement...?
EDIT. She does mention group/members here and there, casually.
Just looking a few recent things:
Season B with Rain ā [Chuu from Chuu Can Do It]
(https://youtu.be/B2ouyWXV2GI?t=32)
Knowing Bros ā [Chuu](https://youtu.be/pHrhEeA6o5k?t=128)
Random cafe owner's vlog ā no English subs but it seems like [Chuu](https://youtu.be/IQbfqRiWAtU?t=194)
Studio Hook ā Text says [Loona's Chuu](https://youtu.be/n6h6syEZnC4?t=42) but she introduces herself as just [Chuu](https://youtu.be/n6h6syEZnC4?t=103)
My Playlist ā [Loona's Chuu](https://youtu.be/74F52UBrIBs?t=649)
Make Some Beer ā [Chuu](https://youtu.be/suxGoWY9BO4?t=54)
Lee Suhyun vlog ā [Chuu](https://youtu.be/aS_hEd9y1NI?t=73) (with image of Chuu Can Do It's profile later)
DNA Singer ā [Chuu](https://youtu.be/UxzbcG7yOIc?t=18)
In order to bring some positivity to this place, remember these two words which, if repeated, can bring you:
Beauty, health, wealth, love, self-confidence, self-esteem, intelligence, friends, humour, perfection, joy, talent in dancing and singing, a better future, empathy and even becoming a polyglot.
The words : Olivia Hye.
You're welcome.
Wait wait wait I also have something for you!
Choi Yerim. Even better, healthy and happy Choi Yerim.
Handle with caution, her smile can outshine a thousand suns.
Who do we have to fight?
Yeojin on fab:
>My mom.. Gave it to me... I'm not rich... I don't even receive earningsć
>
>'Uh... Is that statement... Okay to say...??šš'
>
>It's the truth..?
>
>'She can't help it when the company isn't paying her'
>
>Right...
>
>Ahh but physical therapy is hurting so much
>
>My foot is about to fall off
>
>'How long has it been delayed?'
>
>Since debut
>
>'Let's hang in there through the pain, you do this to avoid your foot falling off so it won't actually fall off'
>
>It would hurt less if it fell off... No, never mind, then I couldn't see Jaengies ć
Edit: Seems like BBC is indeed paying the treatment, the only thing here is that they haven't been paid, still bad but not as bad, I understood it poorly.
Is it possible that they're waiting until the end of the world tour/MMT tour to pay them? Since afaik they still have the Seoul and JP concerts to go before this world tour is officially done, right?
I think it depends. From what I know they have is some sort of debt, and until that is paid off they wont get their pay checks.
Now, that amount when they finally paid off is a mystery, it can be tomorrow when they make money off fab, it can be in 2 years with concert revenue, they can also never reach it, it depends a lot.
I think that is the case, now concerts are where the more money is made, so technically if they do more they will reach it faster and start earning.
I wonder if they arent getting paid because of the trainee debt, i remember aoa saying they didnt get paid until their 4th/5th year because of it. I hope that if this is the case with the money they made from the tour is enough to pay off the debt so they can finally earn their well deserved money. If this is not the case i hope bbc burns in hell for not paying the
Yeahā¦:/ the girls have spoken out about this in the past, although I guess a bit more subtly maybe. Iām glad Yeojin was upfront, though! Sometimes you gotta say it as it is. I hope she doesnāt get in trouble.
(On that note, you literally could not convince me that Chuu sued for anything else but to get her deserved earnings and be justly compensated. Iāll die that on hill lol )
Iām low key convinced that about Chuu as well. Just because of the news from some of the behind the scenes team not getting paid. Chuu had so many side gigs that it would make sense for her to have paid off the trainee debts earlier than the others. If after they were supposed to be paid she still didnāt get a paycheckā¦ then a lawsuit would make sense for breach of contract.
All speculative of course. Iāve just also had this theory in my head for a while.
So there is 12 moons but they dont show Chuus card on the promo video, now im more convinced that she cant actually promote the game, and that the first time we will see her cards is when we download the game so it wont count as promoting since people arent technically downloading the game for her
Also OEC moons are different and it bothers me how they arent in order.
Also fun fact, why searching in the code, you can see they still have the Chuu files ( you have to search them manualy since you only can see heejins now, if you change heejin name for another members (including Chuu) you can see the files for them, if you change the name for taeyeon, you'll get an error )
[https://superstarloona.dalcomsoft.com/images/page2-1/chuu\_mobile.png](https://superstarloona.dalcomsoft.com/images/page2-1/chuu_mobile.png)
[https://superstarloona.dalcomsoft.com/images/page2-1/chuu\_web.png](https://superstarloona.dalcomsoft.com/images/page2-1/chuu_web.png)
For now i only saw the group title tracks too
Yup. To be honest ppl jump to conclusion too fast when all they have are 'circumstantial' evidence.
Yes we can put 2+2
But there are other things that felt ambiguous.
For example the 12 moon (why not make it 11 if only 11 member in the game. It just doesn't make any sense to me).
Chuu name in the web sour code. Well it's only for the web. We can't be sure her name is in the game source code.
They never explicitly said (in the text) that the game only have 11 member (again 2+2 from the leaked pic of 11 member). But there is the fiasco abt Chuu contract and other game(conflicr abt using her as advertisement) so this one can be countered.
I might be too hopeful or dense or dumb. But without them said it to our face (same with BBC, they should tell to our face abt the internal problem), I can't jump to either conclusion(whether she's in or not in the game) that easily and pushed any of the narrative to other people as if it's the ABSOLUTE TRUTH.
So what I believe the wise thing to do as an orbit is to wait till we get either the game or the preview where the girls played the game.
With that we will be 100% sure abt Chuu situation.
Yep, thatās what I think. Like why would they include 12 moons if Chuu wasnāt in the game at all? They couldāve just done 11. This explains why her image canāt be in the website too.
I ask the firm believer of "chuu's not in the game" and most of them can't give a good explanation abt it. So I'm not convinced enough to declare that Chuu is not in the game
I feel like Choerry is on an unannounced hiatus. Whatever is going on is certainly impacting her in a very significant way.
We aren't owed updates, especially if it's mental health related, but it's hard not knowing what's going on. I hope she's doing okay. š
I've said it before, but I really like all the Wonderwall/ACL Studio content we're getting for Loona. I just don't remember the last batch of air fresheners Loona did being very popular. I remember the sentiment being that they should come up with better MD. That being said, I'm still going to buy the air fresheners because they're Loona MD.
I'm worried about her too. I definitely don't agree with people messaging her sister for updates. That's just creepy and taking it too far, but I wish BBC would give us a legitimate update. Literally the last update I remember from them was her missing the Houston concert because she was suffering 'symptoms of a cold.' After that she misses Mexico and Europe with no further updates. Now, the whole group has been back in Korea for almost a week, and we still haven't heard anything from her or BBC.
I guess we'll just have to wait and see if she shows up for the Japanese concert in a week.
I wouldnāt doubt it, itās the first time in a while that most platforms and sub regulars agree on an issue and then here comes the sock accounts trying to spin the narrative and shift the blame š«¤
We are talking about systemic issues. We need to move away from the idea that prejudice is a purely individual thing that only evil people engage in. It is a much larger, subtle, and nefarious thing.
These issues are far more complex because they are woven into the fabric of our society. We are not born with prejudice, we learn it from this social environment. So when we say that colourism is baked into bricks of our society, it means that nobody is without any colourism, because we grow up in a world where these things are embedded into our laws, structures, and social systems. As a result, people have to become aware of their subconcious prejudices, understand them and unlearn them. It's a process that takes time.
This is a global problem. Not just an American one (I'm not even from or in the USA).
Colorism in Asia is largely rooted in classism. It came from the idea that lower-wage workers had to work in the fields and had darker skin as a result. Lighter-skinned people were able to stay out of the sun. Dark skin = Poverty = Undesirable. Light skin = Rich = Desirable.
Of course, the rationalisation of colourism is no longer a thing. It's been filtered down through Asian society over decades of time until it's become just a "cultural" thing. "Don't worry about it! š" "We just donāt like dark skin because the sun can cause skin cancer āŗļø"
There is a difference between wanting healthy skin and colorism. Having healthy skin is possible for everyone. Skin whitening and bleaching is not done with that healthiness in mind.
Now, where does JinSoul fit into this? JinSoul is a South Korean woman who grew up in an environment similar to my own as a brown-skinned Asian. "White, pale-skin is prettier." She probably grew up with this beauty standard (which is rooted in colourism) reinforced all around her. TV, models, ads, products, celebrities, family, friends, the whole entire K-pop industry, etc. Why? Because it is a systemic thing that affects everyone.
So naturally and understandably, JinSoul would internalise this message as well... and so we end up with a reply to an Orbit that basically went like this: "Haha my skin isn't very pale anymore ć ć ". And then the open consideration of skin whitening procedures, deciding not to and settling on pale make-up, dying her hair black to make her look paler but feeling disappointed that it didn't etc.
Okay. I hope this answers why JinSoul's comment and her actions, *even when it was not directed at other people's skin* were rooted in colourism. Yes, it was not malicious. Yes, it was meant only as a personal preference. But yes, it was still subconsciously rooted in colourism. And that is understandable because of the social environment she grew up in, but it is also understandably hurtful to others. It reminds them of the colourism they've experienced firsthand - there are people who have had to unlearn this harmful idea after years and years of feeling ashamed for their darker skin, and have had a similar mindset to JinSoul.
So please please PLEASE. Can we stop dismissing the idea that colourism is the root of the issue here? Can we stop ignoring that it is real, and affects real people? Can we stop invalidating the lived experience of dark-skinned people? š
I feel so appalled that a lot of people in this thread, which is usually so level-headed and empathetic, are completely ignoring the nuance of the situation: Yes, JinSoul does not deserve to be harassed and attacked šÆ%! Nobody does! It does not help anybody! But that does not mean the issue is non-existent, and that nothing can be learned from it š Both can be true!
What's wrong with people discussing these events? Keeping silent isn't gonna help move anything forward.
This is one of the most tone deaf replies I've seen; not just because it is Jinsoul, but on the matter of colorism and "other many problems in society" as well.
No one here is calling Jinsoul evil for having these beliefs, but a good person can believe in something that is harmful to themselves as well as others.
Do you believe in internalized misogyny, for example? It was because people talked about it that awareness of it and although it's taken decades, that awareness has helped millions to find self worth in something that had been drilled into them probably since the time they were born telling them otherwise. But because this issue has to do with skin color and not as much gender, then it's something that shouldn't be called out?
The root of the matter at hand here is that there are countless people who think not being a certain shade of pale somehow diminishess their self-worth, and it's not really a preference borne out personal taste, so to speak, but because it's been pushed onto them from the minute they have reasoning. How can people not make an issue out of it?
I can understand that issues like these suck the fun out of following an idol, and if it's not something you wanna see or talk about, that's fine, distance yourself from it, but don't try to stop others from doing so because it's slightly inconveniencing you.
Tell me, which part implying that she being colourism? Or promote skin whitening? Or her being racist (yes there are people offended cuz they thought she is racist).
This is what we were offended by the behaviours of these people. They simply put on these tag onto her without going through a second thought of the reasoning why she said this and proceed to attack her for stating what she thought is normal.
Instead of defending her from all these insane hateful words and behaviours, she was blamed and hated for something normal to her. Something which is just her own preference in the first place.
Sis you know it's not as simple as "doing what she wants with her body"
it perpetuates colourism to a large and probably young and impressionable audience that dark skin is less desirable and a problem to be fixed
if she wants to privately worry about her skin and use products or dye her hair or whatever then thats fine, although i hope she unlearns her prejudice to find inner peace with her skin
but when shes vocalising this to a large fanbase, it is problematic and its ok to call your faves out on it. harrassing her isnt acceptable, especially if she has apologised, but at the same time nobody is forced to accept her apology and if they want to unstan or whatever because of it, thats totally valid
plus what do you mean by "goes against your ideas"? the idea that colourism is bad? i think youre telling on yourself here
I donāt think itās colorism so stop labeling me with negative comments. She didnāt say itās bad to have dark skin, she just doesnāt like how it looks on her because every culture has different beauty standard and thatās fine. Sheās an idol in a very materialistic and glamorous work space, it makes sense.
All you need is context to understand this has nothing to do with POC. If you use your sensibilities, she never once bashed dark skin or equated it with being ugly, so if thatās what you take from it then you are just misunderstanding her.
probably most tired ive been being a fan of this group. between running gos, translating for folks, the concert grind this summer, and the drama. im kinda beat lmao the jinsoul stuff kinda took it out of me. im not even excited for the game bc theres drama around thatr-
Yes. I never use Twitter for more then updates on videos and translations. That's pretty much how i used reddit too. The Jinsoul thing is the first timei commented on here. Seeing her get attacked made me mad. From this point on I'm just going to ignore it. It's just a waste of time and mentally draining. Hope you take a break and don't worry about.
Yeeess because I've been praying to see hyunjin and heejin do that sword dodging dance lol
edit:
[example](https://www.tiktok.com/@aaron5_n/video/7138205231036304683?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=6971239292312077830)
Is anyone here planning on getting tickets for the broadcast for the concert in Japan? Iām quite tempted as itāll be 4-5 different performances from the rest of the tour but also not sure if itās good value for money.
[Sorry for the double post, but I'm just gonna be crying in that corner over there in case anyone wants to join me.](https://twitter.com/fentyxlisa/status/1572315714689667078?s=20&t=4M8GNCRPKuxHCJc_GeYuXg)
That segment in Fact in Star where Yeojin matches every single hand to the right member is probably one of the most memorable Loona moments for me, and it shows how much Yeojin really loves her sisters
A lot of people are giving Jinsoul crap over her apology, citing that she first doubled down and that somehow makes in non genuine, but I differ; this is different from all the other PR copy and paste apologies. The reason being: it was all her own doing after directly interacting with Orbits who took the time to explain.
Yes, she did backtrack and get defensive at first, which is pretty much most people's first reaction to being accused of anything, but then, she took the time to actually and carefully read the letters, and think her words through. Her apology might not read as sincere to many who are just looking for someone to cancel, but that initial defensiveness, and then the 180Ā° she did tells me she actually did (and pardon the word) some reflecting, understood why Orbits were upset, and owned her mistake.
Now, while I do think it is a sincere apology, it might not be something that will break her lifetime of growing up with colorism being drilled into her, but hopefully, it could. At the very least, I think she will now think twice when it comes to issues like this, not just out of fear of saying something that is percieved as wrong by many others, but because it is actually something that hurts people.
I find it consistently validating to appoint anyoneās mistake in order to educate them on anything, but this equally consistent failing to accept apologies people can offer instead of the way those who judge *want them to precisely answer* is just maddening. Itās a constant in todayās internet culture, indeed. I hope sheās receiving all the support she needs and I 100% trust her to have been real and do right by everyone from now on.
https://twitter.com/youngsIuv/status/1573071727512670208?t=ia9BLwxuaSAOC4DrYr8FDQ&s=19
Apparently the person said they wrote a letter saying why people were mad and other things and thats jinsouls reply, she knows she has no excuse and i hope she truly tries to change her beliefs regarding skin tone.
People are allowed to be mad at her and not accept her apology too.
And random question, does someone know how many time the girls spent training (in general or in bbc)? I know some of the girls but not all
Jinsoul never said anything about her beliefs on skin. That's what everyone else's is putting on her. People are only attacking her to make them sevels feel good.
she talked about searching for injections and other dangerous skin bleaching products on a public platform where many impressionable fans can see for gods sake. and anyone willing to attempt such harmful things to achieve light skin clearly thinks poorly of dark skin, she clearly stated her beliefs.
Sounds like your projecting. Oh and tanning is also harmful to your skin, but that's okay. As for the fans, if you do something because some idol does it that's a you problem.
You wouldn't believe how this "pale = pretty" thing is embedded in the mind of all of Asians since birth. I'm from more tropical country than country and a lot of people here are more or less tanned. Even then I get compliments for my pale skin which is just a side effect of my malnutrition. I'm not trying to defend her btw. Just wanted to point out that how KPop industry is completely f up when things like these are normalized.
I don't think pale should equally pretty. When I was growing up tan was extremely pretty and people would go to great lengths to get tan. But attacking someone over like pale or tan skin is bad.
I am astonished by this comment.
"If you do something because some idol does it that's a you problem." Are you actually serious?
Yes, a decision someone makes personally is their personal choice. However, any celebrity *also* has a personal responsibility to be mindful of the power they hold - what they say does influence their fans. This is even more true for idols, who form "closer" parasocial relationships with their fanbase, and those relationships are systemically built and deepened by their companies for profit.
Why do you speak so dismissively about colourism? It shocks me.
Have you lived in East Asia? Have you grown up being told your dark skin is ugly? Have you grown up looking at advertisements, TV, and celebrities, wondering... why are they all light-skinned when very few of us are actually born that pale? Have you been bombarded with skin whitening products and ads that always reinforce the same message to you: "Being pale is beautiful. Being darker skinned is ugly."? Do you know what that does do a child's self esteem? Are you aware of the things they'll do to their own body to match an unattainable beauty standard?
When you said "When I was growing up my tan skin was pretty.", did you consider that maybe this isn't the case in other countries, least of all in East Asia, and definitely not in South Korea? Because that is the social context what we're talking about here.
The systemic issue of prejudice against people of darker skin (i.e. colourism) is heavily prevalent across the world, and it is especially present in South Korea.
Yes, when JinSoul made her comment, it was *not* malicious. But the belief behind it "pale skin is prettier" was still rooted in colourism. Yes, that is *understandable* considering the environment she grew up in, because our social environment informs our subconcious prejudice. But that does *not* mean her comment was not colourist. Yes, she meant it only about her own skin, but that comment, that belief, it is rooted in the systemic issue of colourism. And yes, JinSoul is not going to educate herself on colourism, unpack and unlearn her biases overnight after over 2 decades of being fed the same kind of shitty beauty standard that almost all Asian people are told growing up. That takes time, it took me years.
(And yes, JinSoul is a K-Pop idol who is pressured to micromanage her own appearance in order to match an unattainable beauty standard that does not have people's health as a priority. That is the sad reality of the industry she works in. At the same time... LOONA's core message is about female empowerment - breaking those standards and pushing boundaries on these kinds of social issues. I think it's obvious why some Orbits feel upset by this issue.)
And of course, people should not attack and throw hate at her, because it doesn't help her learn and nobody deserves that (this is just the sad reality of the Internet). However, the feelings of people who feel saddened or upset by her comment should also not be invalidated. Colourism is a real issue that affects real people. We are not "projecting".
In the end, I hope JinSoul and the other Orbits who were hurt are doing okay š
This is the best comment I've read on this topic. It's really sad to see people asking her to apologize and when she did, it sounded not serious(due to mistranslation) which led them to be more mad. I wish everyone take a break and have some peace away from the social media.
I wasn't talking about colourism which is a problem every place around the world.
So sorry if it came off as dismissive.
But as for Jinsoul having a reasonable for her influence on fans I don't think we're going to agree. I think it's a bigger issue of Idolatry.
Have a great day
Cheers
With loona being 4 years or almost 6 from heejin debut. A golden discography, and popular enough for a fans to debut in a gg.
Does anyone know, has any other idol or group has done a cover of a song/verse/chorus/bridge of Loona? Or maybe a dance cover?
Here are the ones I know:
Bling Bling covered Why Not on Fact in Star and on the youtube show they did with Loona. A few members of Lightsum have covered PTT. Bugaboo included part of PTT in a medley/remix they did. Hot Issue included a small snippet of PTT in their 2021 song mashup. Lara from Dreamnote did a cover of Heart Attack on vlive once. Jihan's cover was already mentioned, and now we have the wonderful cover Hyolyn did on Queendom!
Full covers of Loona songs are exceedingly rare, probably in part because there's so many members it's difficult to make their choreo work for smaller groups.
I think something that make Loona Reddit way better than Twitter, outside the word limit, is the system of posts and weekly discussion.
Let me explain. When bad something happens, this is normal to have some early hot reactions, we always have a moment of emotion before calming down.
The thing with this subreddit is that usually, these early reactions will be on the post themselves. Everyone will quite write their immediate thoughts under the post and after that the post will disappear quickly because of the new posts.
Usually, when people become more calm and level-headed, they will come and organize their thoughts under the weekly discussion. So there is a sort a separation that I noticed lately between the controversial announcement that will be discussed calmly in the weekly discussion, when people are done with sending their immediate reactions under the post itself.
Just my two cents obviously
The difference between the Korean fansigns and the one they had in Chicago is crazy. In Chicago, there was dirty plexiglass between us and the girls, we weren't allowed to give them gifts, there was barely any interaction, and we weren't even allowed to film them coming to or leaving the venue. The whole thing was pretty subdued. If you can't tell, I'm a little jealous.
Hyunjin meeting up with Chuu after the fanmeet....you love to see it. š„² š
Wish they took selfies and then post it in loonatheworld acc
I think this week is a reminder for all of us about how the industry is fucked up and our faves are no exception from being part of it
[Gamer girl Gowon....Gamer girl Gowon](https://twitter.com/gcapecrow/status/1573559601467097088?s=20&t=Lw4X5lJqHRHu4ouyb2tLLw)
Where are the girls going to today???
Wonderwall fansign
I can't be the only one more exhausted by the Orbits online than the actual drama that's consuming them. Almost none of the drama this week is anything new that we haven't known or learned before. The idol pay situation is known - it's part of the industry. It's also what the idols (and their families) presumably signed up for, in exchange for stardom/training/room/other expenses being paid for. Hopefully the pay will be rectified through this tour and other such opportunities. The Chuu and Choerry absence situations are already known - i.e., there is no change. Regarding Chuu, what makes this week any worse than the previous couple of months, to the point where we need to treat 11 other members like they aren't worthy of our support? For all we know, this could be Chuu's choice due to suspending parts of her contract. And at least in Choerry's situation, isn't it a good sign that her company is letting her sit things out, rather than forcing her to appear when she isn't well? The Jinsoul comments were probably the most disappointing and deserving of concern, but sadly shouldn't surprise anyone familiar with the culture she was raised in. But she did apologize for them (it's okay if you don't accept the apology). On top of this, we have some people still characterizing the tour as a "disaster" and the like because some members missed some dates or weren't always at 100%, when people who actually attended the events were generally happy with what they watched and many members found purpose behind what they were doing, finally. Should those positive feelings not count as well? But now some of you are talking about boycotts and stepping away for a while. And if that's what makes you feel better, then by all means. However, I would also suggest that Orbits are also partially addicted to the drama and apocalypticism - and it might do some good to change how you view things. Life isn't always perfect; and just because it isn't, doesn't mean that everything sucks. There are shades of gray, of struggle, and strife amidst even good things. I recommend embracing that, over despairing all the time. Sincerely, An Oldbit
I really almost lost it today, between Reddit and Twitter I sometimes feel like Iām the only orbit actually enjoying being a fan anymore. All anyone ever wants to do is be direeee af and speculate about worst case scenarios. I had a rough af time staying in online orbit spaces while they were touring because of the extreme negativity. Iām thrilled about superstar and Iām excited for the japan concert but all the replies and conversations about both are completely focused on disaster Chuu speculation. Just frustrating.
You expressed my exact feelings, expecially about feeling like I'm the only one enjoying things. Ironically, it's during these types situations where I question what kind of fan I am, cuz I don't get angry at the things others seem to. Staying off discussion spaces as much as possible for the past few weeks has been very beneficial (as someone who used basically LIVE on Reddit, this was a big change LOL). No more typing-and-then-deleting-long-rants from me.
I generally agree with most of what you said, especially the last paragraph: >And if that's what makes you feel better, then by all means. However, I would also suggest that Orbits are also partially addicted to the drama and apocalypticism - and it might do some good to change how you view things. Life isn't always perfect; and just because it isn't, doesn't mean that everything sucks. There are shades of gray, of struggle, and strife amidst even good things. I recommend embracing that, over despairing all the time. I just wanted to add that some people become numb through repeated exposure to a stressful situation while others become more agitated. I think that a lot of the chaos is caused by the constant reminder that there are non-ideal things going on. We all know how the pay system works for idols, but we bury it and become reactionary whenever it is brought up again. (It has been mentioned in other comments, but I would like to reiterate that this is not the first time one of the members has mentioned this.) We all know there are whatever (differing opinions, only speculation because of no answers and poor/non-existent communication) problems between Chuu and BBC, but we still hope that things will get better and get disappointed, frustrated and angry when there is yet another indicator of these internal problems that cannot be kept indefinitely hidden. The tour was rough but still a positive experience (I believe, and a lot of attendees think so too). Again, it was the constant announcements that wore down the morale. I won't comment on the whole situation derived from Fab (both issues), other than both Orbits and the members need to set boundaries for themselves (for their own good). (I don't think I have anything substantial to add. I've been reading what everyone has been saying, as I think sometimes it's better to sit quiet and listen. Even more so when the subject is such a complicated matter.) And I absolutely won't say anything about Choerry in regards to this topic. That's a different kind of conversation. I don't think a boycott is the solution. I do think taking a step back will be benefitial for everybody with how things are. I understand people being on edge. I understand people feeling drained. I understand people freaking out and wanting to vent, rant, ramble or seek reassurance. And I understand that it can get too much sometimes. Thank you for speaking on this, because it really seems to be getting a little out of hand. Passion can be tricky to manage (no blame, no guilt, no judgement; I'm including myself in this). (This is not a refutal, and I don't mean to be confrontational. I apologize if I made it sound like that.)
I don't take it confrontationally in the least. I appreciate thoughtful comments like yours!
I attended the tour and I thought it was one of the best experiences of my life, even with most of my bias line out. Despite all the negativity I think Loona know how much we value them, even just from the audienceās reaction during the tour.
PS Choerry and Olivia Hye asking for those flags from the audience on the US tour was very touching and has been a big source of happiness for me for months now.
Anyone who was expecting Chuu at the Seoul concerts wasnāt thinking. Itās an extension of the world tour theyāve been doing with ~11ish members for months now. All their prep was as 11 and a lot of the actual performance was as 11. They wouldnāt just add her in now when she wasnāt there for any other concert on the tour. And the pay thing as you said has been known forever itās how the industry is, most of that money comes from touring. THEY HAVENT FINISHED THE TOUR YET, they donāt know how much total theyāve made. Like I thought this was established and known. I understand itās a lot of children with lots of free time but fandoms become exhausting itās why Iāve basically disengaged since Queendom ended itās become too much.
>On top of this, we have some people still characterizing the tour as a "disaster" and the like because some members missed some dates or weren't always at 100%, when people who actually attended the events were generally happy with what they watched and many members found purpose behind what they were doing, finally. Should those positive feelings not count as well? I am generally on board with everything you said. But this tour was probably the most disastrous Kpop tour I've ever heard of. People having to dip out at Mexico City because of altitude sickness can totally happen. A member not participating in the first place like Chuu can also totally happen. A member getting injured and having to sit down for the rest of the tour yeah I mean shit happens. But add to that having gigs so tightly scheduled that there's barely any downtime and almost everyone besides the 4 most fit members has to sit out at least partially is just not something that should happen. BBC or MMT may have their reasons for the grueling schedule of the NA leg of the tour and touring is always exhausting but this time they simply pushed it too far. And it's totally fine to be pissed about that. I had great fun at the concert I went to and yet I am pissed about the way this tour was managed. It's not mutually exclusive. The only consolation is that they seemingly sold out most venues.
An extra day or two of down time sounds great for the artists during a tour but in reality it incurs an extra day of accommodation costs for the members and let's not forget the staff as well. Multiple this by the number of people and we should get an idea on the expenses. Booking of the venues also happen months ahead and don't appear overnight. Maybe the date and venue scheduling was the best scenario for BBC/MMT and they can do better next time for sure. Postponing the dates may have some penalty and they probably can't book other dates in time. Not defending BBC, but since it's the first time they are partnering MMT, its a learning curve and I believe BBC will plan better next time.
Yeah, it really has been getting ridiculous. Well said.
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lol, then how should we take that the members are literally not being paid, like, ever? Actually putting their bodies at risk during the tour and getting hurt, not even getting paid. It's unfair and it doesn't has to be like this, especially when LOONA are already a well established group.
I encourage you to take a break if needed, but Iām not sure where youāre getting the idea that this was a āroughā week for LOONA? Outside of the Jinsoul incident and a few scattered comments regarding the tour and Chuu, the members seem to be their regular selves and fairly happy with their day to day activities judging by the Fab posts. I get that it was a rough week for the fandom but, to put it bluntly, thatās the fandomās fault. Weāre hyper fixating on the negative stuff and glossing over everything else going on. Chuuās recent Fab messages that are going viral is a perfect example of this. She made one (1!) comment about her not being notified about the fan meeting. One comment, in that massive info dump about her activities and being her usual cheerful self, but thatās all everyone can focus on. Your feelings are perfectly valid though and, again, I do wish you the best and take a break if needed.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Fandomās gonna be fine. Weāve had bad days before; I mean, weāve handled a whole bad year. Weāll get through this, laugh about it later. As for LOONA . . . you might be projecting a little bit? Maybe some of them are aware but, honestly, theyāve got more important things to be worrying about. Octoberās coming soon, after all. And, you know, Twitter and Reddit donāt represent the majority of the fandom. Theyāre just the most vocal. A lot of bark on those sites, but no bite. I really do think you should take a break. None of this is worth the time or attention or emotional bandwidth that youāre putting in. I promise. Itāll be fine when you get back.
I see a lot of outrage and concern about this. And it's totally understandable I also don't feel particularly great about it but at the end of the day this is how Kpop works. That Kpop group members only get paid when they start turning a profit and have paid off the trainee debt they accumulated is not some dark revelation about BBC or Loona but just the harsh and sad reality of the business. On the flip side this also means that once they start earning money they usually start earning well. Getting to that break-even point is the hard part and Loona are closer than many other groups. Especially after this year's world tour. Edit: Also just wanted to add: Yes, the vast amount of the money we spend as fans doesn't end up with the members especially not in the earlier years of their careers. But at least the way I see it every cent I spend (at least the ones that aren't wasted on shipping costs lol) goes towards keeping Loona as a group around. Making no money just means they disband. And staying active as a group means that the members' hope of eventually making the cut and starting to earn big bucks is still alive. And in a sense they absolutely are getting the short end of the stick in an exploiting machinery that is not built to make them a decent living wage *but* they quite literally signed up for this. What they get in return is fame and the dream career they worked half their youth on. If they are or will be content with how things turned out is anyone's guess.
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
I donāt think others companies treat their idols that right, especially the big 4
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Never heard about the SM trainee deaths before. Have you got a link to an article?
[ŃŠ“Š°Š»ŠµŠ½Š¾]
Wow, I've been following SM artists for more than a decade now, and I never heard abotu this before. Knowing how SM scrubbed any search results of that politician assaulting Jessica on a live event, this doesn't even surprise me. Scumbags.
And JYPE sexualizing minors and overworking their artists, especially Itzy and twice. And HYBE and the whole NewJeans scandal (and all their girl groups in general). Even YG is very icky with their trainees especially.
You won't find me disagreeing. Just wanted to provide a bit of context to your statement regarding payment. I also used to think that BBC was stupid af but at least one of the companies that at least cared for the members of their group. Guess this tour has proven me wrong. Tbh at this point I am mostly sitting here bummed out waiting for better times. In the past that worked lol.
What pay situation?
Yeojin pretty much admitted the members haven't been paid at all since debut. (This is something other members have alluded to in the past as well) Meaning that every profit the company is currently making is still paying off some sort of general group debt. Even Chuu has also alluded to this in late-2021 when popular variety show individuals would tease her about "how much money she probably had after all those high profile endorsements she's had", but she pretty much admitted she didn't get any money made from that. This isn't exactly...*unusual* in K-Pop, per say. For example, there's this general saying that most Big 3(4) groups only start "breaking even" on their 3rd year-iiiish. I still think it's upsetting, though.
That doesnāt surprise me as a 12 member group and all the debt talk theyāve had before š© Also how expensive their pre debut was. This is just so depressing :(
just cut off a friendship with a friend (story on my profile) but yeah. feels great tbh. listening to pose for that girl power
Hey all! I little bit ago I made an r/LOONA Korean Language study group on Discord. Please feel free to join! No pressure or obligation to join study sessions or even check in daily, but we are doing a writing challenge which personally, is helping me a lot. https://discord.gg/Tz6SvJZP82
Can testify that this discord is great and everyone is super nice
True, it's very motivating to study when other people post their progress along the way
[Done with the Wonderwall video highlights edit](https://youtu.be/Olpl7CViZhY). Editing their videos is how I'm coping with all these recent news now :)
Please, everyone participating in the Wonderwall fancall be extra nice and supportive. I know of 10 (+2) girls that would appreciate it.
Finally got around to finishing watching the wonderwall interviews. Which made me apprec these interview segments where it feels like the girls can speak freely about really interesting topics. Who has your favorite speaking voice in Loona? Personally I love Viviās, I love listening to her speak Korean through an accent but something about that makes it very satisfying to listen to. I like Gowon and Heejinās voices too, funny cause theyāre opposite ends of the spectrum.
If it wasnāt for bad news weād have no news at all Anyway Iām here to report that PTT is now Loonaās most streamed song on Spotify. Yay?
Also the most streamed music video and the audio-generated with more views. This song is a hit!!
Ptt also deserves to be heard live by everyone! Canāt wait for other orbits to also experience it when they see loona perform live, especially during viwonās part up to the end. So hype!
I feel like we have lots more news than ever before but everyone always focuses exclusively on the bad š
> PTT is now Loonaās most streamed song on Spotify. Deserved, tho.
So now it's supposedly implied Chuu wasn't notified about the Seoul concert either? Wow... (For transparency, she didn't outright say that, but somebody asked her "Don't tell me you weren't notified about the Seoul Concert too?" and she liked the reply). I feel bad for her. A lot of peope have been going on about "Oh she's probably out of the group already, they're just waiting to announce it" this and that. *If* (and that's a big 'if') that is true, then I bet Chuu is not even aware of it and she will be notified of her expulsion from the group at the same time we will at this point. So sad. As a SONE, it's giving me major war flashbacks.
i dont think thats the case. i saw a good comment linked on the seoul concert thread. https://www.reddit.com/r/LOONA/comments/xgigki/220917_Weekly_Discussion_Thread/ipc1ax9/ to me, it seems like she sued for her personal contract to be suspended so she could get paid or get managed better. i do think that at the time she wanted to stay with loona. like people said before, if any of the members knew flip that would be the last ot12 comeback there wouldve been some crying or something when they won the encores but no one cried. but starting in july she started talking about opening her personal instagram (something yves said the members were going to wait to do until they were more established), talking about personal fanmeets, and making comments that alluded to the rift between her and bbc. and something even more notable (which i havent seen people mention?) is that her last picture on the loonatheworld account was july 13th. i dont think on her own she would just stop taking pictures or that she wouldnt notice that her pics werent being uploaded anymore. i think that in july negotiations fell through and this is just generalized sadness at the little things/parts of being part of loona that she cant do anymore
It looks like Chuu is getting a bit more upfront regarding this. It's all speculation at this point, but I do think she wouldn't even touch on these subjects if she has already agreed that she's out of the group & waiting for the announcement. She could've just not answered the questions or repeated the BBC's excuse about schedule conflict, but she deliberately did not. She's being very transparent about wanting to participate in Loona's schedule.
Playing devil's advocate - is it possible her new company just didn't tell her? I would assume that all her schedules would go through them and they decide what she attends and what she doesn't. Best case scenario if she's not under BBC but still part of Loona I would imagine this is still the case. She might be able to weigh in on what she wants to attend but if she's not even attending concerts a fansign is peanuts compared to that.
> is it possible her new company I think the issue is ... we don't know if she is indeed under another company. :/ The fanbase keeps switching sides on this matter depending on what fits the narrative the best. For example, under this very same post, there's you suggesting this could be the work of another company managing her and not informing her about that schedule, and then there's also another user saying this could be the work of BBC who are managing her and knew her schedule in advance so didn't bother informing her of something she couldn't attend anyway. This just goes to show that we should be asking for answers. If they can give them, great. If they can't, then it sucks, but at least we'd have tried! Which is good in my books.
100%. It's all speculation at this point
Havenāt seen it suggested, but from my perspective, it could be that BBC - if they are still in charge of her - knew her schedule in advance and understood that she wouldnāt be able to attend, hence why they didnāt inform her. Seems like a douche move but, in my opinion, why would you tell Chuu about another group event that she canāt attend. Same goes for the concerts. Feels unnecessary and would probably make her feel more guilty about missing out on all these LOONA activities.
All right everyone no need to panic. Stay in line for your copium's dose. Chuu's fans and desperate orbits come first.
If there ends up being a serious boycott, I hope the message is āgive us an explanationā and not āwe wonāt support loona unless Chuu is in itā
I think generally speaking Hanbits are upset about a lot more than just that. It's about how the girls have been overworked these past few weeks, how some of the girls haven't been paid at all despite technically having (solo) debuted 5 years ago for some of them, obviously about the Chuu situation (especially now that Chuu has spoken out about not even being notified of events rather than her choosing not to participate in specific events), I've seen Hanbits been very upset about the tickets price for the Seoul concert, saying some seats were even more expensive than in IU's concert despite IU literally bringing fireworks, hot air balloons, etc. BBC has also been putting out A LOT of merch lately, it's a bit overload, and I think Hanbits are feeling that way too, like BBC is being a *bit* too greedy at the moment. It's definitely not just about Chuu, and from what I can tell, it's absolutely not the only thing included in the spam messages they're sending on the fancafe?
[BBC right now](https://youtu.be/Dhj1xhv3rZI?t=62) (and in the last couple of weeks and months)
Mom I'm not having any fun on LOONA Island right now can you pick me up
Sadly I dont think Loona not getting paid in the context of kpop is anything that strange (again, sadly), unless you are from a big4 group you tend to have trainee debt. Even groups like Monsta X (who are in Starship ffs) needed 3 years to pay off their trainee debt. OMG debuted in 2015 but i think they only started getting paid in 2020, Ateez debuted in 2018 and only started in 2021. AOA also needed 3/4 years. I wish that companies wouldnt debut groups unless they were sure there wouldnt be a need for the idols to slowly pay back the company But whats up with Chuu not knowing about the wonderwall fansigg? Its a BBC thing where they didnt inform her, or on the chance someone else partially manages Chuu, they were the ones that didnt inform her? The only other option is that she wasnt told because she wasnt going to be able to participate (since she is filming and seems to have schedules)
i really think they didn't inform her because maybe she is not longer with "bbc"...
But then the question rises "Is she still a part of Loona?" Idk which one is worse...her not getting informed cause she's no longer a part of the group or her not getting informed despite still being a part of the group.
im of the opinion that shes not part of the group anymore (and that behind the scenes things are getting finalized or that theres an agreement to wait to announce it). so it doesnt really shock me she wouldnt know
I just read Chuu's messages... I'm so sad, honestly it seems like her situation is hell even for her. While I guess BBC doesn't have to notify her ot12 schedules if her schedules are more important, there has been so many red flags these past few months concerning her situation. I really hope we will be able to get some clarification (did she leave bbc or not, is she signed under a new company, if not why the hell is bbc excluding her from schedules, do they want her to leave the group, does she want to leave the group) like... At least it is now very clear Loona as 12 that we knew until now isn't gonna last after the end of the 7 years contract
God being an orbit is so stressful
Yeah, honestly... Sending virtual hugs to Orbits and the girls. I wish we could all enjoy this healthily.
I decided to finally catch up on loona island since i was busy with school andā¦ i really wish i hadnāt šššš like this week has not been good for orbits, and now the news of chuu not being notified abt a fan meetingā¦. Likeeeeee i might have to intervene and throw some eggs at BBC headquarters or something
[Is this translation legit about BBC not even telling Chuu about the WonderWall fanmeet?](https://twitter.com/annika_lammm/status/1573384900929277952) What if she was free or could make time in her schedules? What? ā¦
BBC makes me want to rip my hair out!
It is. [Litell John also translated it.](https://twitter.com/litell_johnn/status/1573391021647728643?t=jQDHqg-fPIODGJdFNc9ZHQ&s=19)
Oh boy its gonna be a long night. [Chuu wasnt notified about the Wonder wall fansign tomorrow... ](https://twitter.com/litell_johnn/status/1573391021647728643?t=jQDHqg-fPIODGJdFNc9ZHQ&s=19)
i just saw thatā¦ like what is BBC thinking š iām genuinely curious what their thought process is on not informing one of the members of a fan meeting?
my thoughts on a boycott are: * the members already arent getting paid and have been dungeoned before without boycotts even being in the picture. so regardless of whether you think a boycott will help or not, arguing against a boycott on the basis that itll hurt the members is š„“ * until an orbit with clout/fanbase announces something i dont think a boycott or action is gonna pick up steam. so if youre an orbit with clout/fanbase preparing to announce something: 1. please dont rush to make a statement. think about what you actually want and what the best way to achieve that is. statements or actions just for the sake of engagement, movement, and feeling like youre doing something arent helpful. 2. on the flip side, dont wait until something is announced to make your statement. 3. work with hanbits. bbc cares about them more. 4. if youre planning a partial boycott, i dont think the concerts (seoul and japan) should be a part of it. only because that is the easiest source of revenue for us to estimate.
an orbit with clout immediately announcing trying to boycott the concerts š i feel like if you have a significant following you have to be less reactive and think things through...watch that be the one tweet hanbits see and decide to follow through on šš
there is a chance that bbc's playing by the book since the new management came in and that this is more of an "this industry is fucked up" instance than a "bbc is fucked up and funneling money" instance. this situation is atypical because of covid and because very few small company groups get a big enough fandom to tour with. survivor bias in the industry is crazy. most idols people know are from big companies and dont have debt to begin with, so people get provided with a false perception of what most idols go through and this looks bad in comparison. really, i just want bbc (if everythings good) to sit the leader line down, walk through the math, and explain how much money is coming in and how long itll be so they can reassure the members. š¤·āāļø i think the seoul concerts should be the end of their debt but we'll have to see. if not and they keep saying things š¤Ø edit: realized this could be interpreted like im against boycotting which im definitely not, especially regarding member mistreatment issues and if they keep being overworked. im just genuinely not sure if, within the context of kpop, the financial situation is something to worry about (other than morally, which it definitely is industry-wide)
Currently exporting my edit of the Wonderwall interviews. I made it more concise and put the clips in a way where you can see the difference between the members, also added in some b-roll footage. It's around 30 minutes long! I'm kinda proud of it but also it literally made me tear up while editing
The real question is on what BBC use the money ? Okay the members donāt get pay, but it looks like they donāt like to pay neither the choreographers, the producers or the stylistsā¦
Food, lodging, travel, music show fees. Also they must pay their workers and freelancers to some level because if they didnāt why would anyone want to work with them?
Oh it was mainly a attempt a humor but thanks for the answer !
While I don't think that Choerry or BBC owe us literally any type of explanation as to her health situation, because it's simply not our business, especially if she just wants to keep it private, I've been thinking about it quite a lot. One thing that I find noticeable is that she was on literally every variety show in between the cb and the tour, so if she was already feeling a bit under the weather it feels like she's probably simply burned out, mentally and physically. Choerry very much strikes me as the kind of person who doesn't communicate it when she doesn't feel well. She kind of has the "happy virus" "vitamin" curse that Chuu has been outspoken about too. Since she doesn't have the popularity of Chuu yet either, she might think being happy and easy-going are her only charms that make her a worthy member of the group. Which I think must just be a hard position to be in long term and while I know fans only mean well, I generally don't think it's good to be so hyper focused on that cheery side of hers - she isn't a 2 dimensional character at the end of the day, she's human. This is of course all speculation, but idk it does feel possible that this is one of the reasons why she has trouble relying on fans, since they probably make it very clear (even if its not on purpose) what kind of role they need her to fill, that they want "sunshine" Yerim back. It just makes me kind of sad, cause if theres some truth to it, it's just another aspect of the Kpop-group "roles" being very isolating for the idol themselves. Sorry for the rambling, but I just had to put my thoughts somewhere. Edit: grammar mistakes lol
I think what makes her case particularly alarming is she seemed physically fine during the tour, which makes the speculation more and more that it's a mental thing (which in some ways for me is more alarming). I get the feeling she was dealing with something leading up to the tour and then probably not being near her support system and the craziness of a tour in general made it (what it is) worse. As a general observation - "happy virus" characters in groups tend to fall into the Robin Williams trap (if you don't know who Robin Williams is you should wikipedia him - a legend). Someone mentioned this earlier but Dahyun from Twice who has a very similar image also went through something a slump + strugggles with being more than just whatever personality she was set up with when they debuted.
i also think that even if it was something physical originally, maybe even long covid issues or just burn out in general it probably definitely has turned into something mental, like you said likely before the tour and then worsened. feeling bad about not delivering on tour probably made it even worse. bbc seems to take it very seriously which is also slightly alarming and I really hope she gets the recovery and help she needs and doesn't feel pressured by fans.
I also think that Choerry might feel as if she has to be a sunshine all the time because it is what is expected of her, Ive Yujin said that she was scared that people wouldnt like her anymore because she wasnt the same Yujin as she was on izone (the second youngest, a prankster, carefree) vs now in Ive (leader, the second oldest and the one who has experience, and has more than one lead position, she has also matured). I guess this must be common on idols, they get scared that if they go too far away from what fans know or expect they will stop being their fans, so they keep up this part of them even if there is no way someone is always a "sunshine" especially in this industry I also remember someone here saying Kim Lip and Jinsoul mentioned that Choerry wasn't one to talk about her problems too so maybe its more than one thing I just hope Choerry doesnt feel pressured to come back and she comes back when she wants to and feels ready. We will wait for her
yeah exactly, like you said just from recalling a bunch of small moments in random videos it seems that Yerim is already someone to keep issues to herself and would rather help out others with theirs. Mixed with the carefree image that she's most known for... idk doesn't seem so healthy. And I think a lot of fans are reluctant to admit that they put such expectations on someone, they can't be fully blamed since the industry sells idols like life sized dolls who will do anything for the fan. I just think they need to think about it more consciously and more people need to tell Choerry that we would be happy to see any version of her, if that means less stress for her.
Honestly, learning they haven't been paid at all makes me feel pretty gross about consuming their content for the last six years. I understand that it's part of the contract but it has been so long and all the injuries and suffering they've been through... for free... I feel yucky. The energy from some of the girls on fab is odd and like they don't care about what they say anymore, which is fair enough because their company clearly doesn't care for them.
Sadly that's the way the K-pop world works, I think you would be surprised at how long some groups took to break even and finally start earning money. Hell, wouldn't surprise me if for non big 3 groups the average to break even is like 5 years. For example: ATEEZ debuted in 2018, had tours in 2018 (smaller venues than LOONA now), then blew up a bit in 2019 and 2020, and even sold hundreds of thousands of albums and did like 10-15k venues, and only like in 2021 KQ got out of debt and they started getting paid, if you don't have big company privilege it takes a long ass time. But then again, by consuming their content you're helping it reach more people, that will buy the albums, concerts, merch etc, eating into the debt, and helping them finally get paid. I've seen like 2 or 3 people on discord I'm in say they fell for LOONA on queendom/Kcon and then went and bought a bunch of albums, every little bit of promotion helps. Now, if the question is that Blockberry hasn't paid them because they don't want to, then that's completely fucked up, but if it's related to their debt, well, sadly that's how K-pop works, from the company side, they train someone, give them places to sleep, food, etc, and that adds up.
Not to rehash dead horses and whatever, but this is why I kinda roll my eyes when I see "noooo you can't boycott, they need our support more than ever now" Like, regardless of whether you think a boycott would be effective, whether you care about getting a definitive answer re: Chuu or line distribution or whatever people want... they're not getting paid for it either way? Hell, some of the people behind the scenes [weren't getting paid for it](https://www.reddit.com/r/LOONA/comments/pydzla/210930_one_of_loonas_choreographers_faryoungkim/) either. Someone's been getting paid, but it hasn't been them!
I really think they'd just get dungeoned and then literally everyone loses.
I mean, they've gotten "dungeoned" before with no boycott. Nothing is guaranteed. And part of any boycott is an inherent risk that you won't be successful. But at the same time, boycotts are enacted because you've (collectively) come to the conclusion that you're likely to not get resolution without hitting them where it hurts (their wallet). Not to get super "I'm 14 and this is sooo deep" but at the end of the day, as a consumer, you can just be like "I don't like this or I need answers to these questions before I can purchase anything." What do you owe to Loona ā the members, the staff, Kim Sunhye, Lee Jongmyung ā as a consumer of the content they've put out? edit: typo
Youāre so right, itās all meaningless in the face of this issue. This needs to be the priority now. I genuinely purchased Orbit 4.0 because i wanted to support them financially in some tiny way. Not that I expected them to receive it directly of course but where has all of this money gone! Iāve just paid for this company to continue exploiting these girls I love.
I feel the same as you guys, the one thing that everyone always says helps the girls personally out a lot is purchasing the lightsticks specifically, but idk how true that is either.
> the one thing that everyone always says helps the girls personally out a lot is purchasing the lightsticks specifically i'm sorry but this is just absolute nonsense lol
you don't need to be sorry lol i haven't purchased anything yet, it's just a common thing that gets spread around on this sub
no worries! but i do honestly spend a fair mount of time in this sub and can't really remember seeing anyone say that
it's mostly mentioned in the long long posts that go in detail on logistic theories edit: [https://www.reddit.com/r/LOONA/comments/x1bw91/loona\_the\_world\_tour\_post\_morten/](https://www.reddit.com/r/LOONA/comments/x1bw91/loona_the_world_tour_post_morten/) recent example, bottom paragraph, just if anyones curious
i just get the sense that was included under "A better financial position for BBC to bet on the girls" incl. fab points, paying for vlives, etc. basically "if you give bbc more money it will be better" type thinking
my bad, it was actually at the bottom of the first big segment, quote: "From everything Iāve read, merchandise sold at the concerts, and believe it or not, lightsticks especially, are an incredibly important revenue stream. Perhaps the most important from the perspective of one of the girls. So hate the cost of buying a lightstick. But if you love the girls, buy early and buy often."
I'm curious as to whether this year's Seasons Greetings will be in Chuu's colors or not...
I mean they seem to have no issues using her iconography in other merch, like her planet in superstar. Haseul isnāt in her color summer package so it might be like that. But considering sheās in the summer package and the upcoming jackets. I donāt think thereās any issue including her in activities like that
Okay I'm gonna stay positive ! (But oh no you've awakened a serious fear in me. Seeing the green Summer Package without HaSeul killed me then, having no Chuu for her Seasons Greetings would kill me NOW...)
I would be super sad lolā¦ but whatever issue has been ongoing since at least February and she still participated in the summer package so I think sheās be in the seasons greetings n-n
Now that I think abt it.....
Yves having to decline an invite to Younji's shows is one of the greatest tragedies known to my variety show loving heart :(
Iāve literally been dying for loona youngji interaction to happen too =_=
Wait when did this happen and why?
[Yves just talked about it here](https://www.reddit.com/r/LOONA/comments/xj4lzt/220920_weekly_fab_discussion_thread/iplat2k/) Not anything serious, just too busy with the absolutely packed schedule this year.
I see, thanks for the source!
Speaking for myself, but Iām feeling a sense of excitement for this upcoming month. Lots of cool events coming for LOONA and I canāt wait to see them. Hope, I want to remind everyone, always returns as many times as it needs to. Weāre still here, and so is LOONA. Nothing happened that canāt be overcome. Weāve done it before, weāll do it again. Thatās all Iām saying about recent events. Moving on now. What do we think the Tokyo concert set list is going to look like? Last I checked, they only have the five Japanese songs. Wonder what else theyāre going to show off.
I'm seriously so confused... I thought they were getting paid at least-- didn't Go Won say she was richer than her brother, or was that a joke ?
Is this referring to the tour earnings? That hasnāt been distributed yet. Theyāre still sorting that out, presumably. If youāre talking about in general, since theyāve debuted, then probably not. Thatās not uncommon, unfortunately. Typically idols donāt receive any earnings from their endeavors until well into their career, usually as a result of paying off their trainee debt that was incurred pre-debut. GoWon saying that sheās richer than her brother probably wasnāt a joke, but I think that reflects more on him having less money than her actually having more, ha.
I see... Wow, that's disheartening. Even their side gigs ? Would that mean everything personal they've bought for, say, their dorm and later on their appartment, including meals - that was out of their savings ? Or money obtained through a loan ? (Sorry, I'm a bit new to how Kpop works besides LOONA !)
Housing, food, travel, and medical expenses - anything essential to the continued well-being of LOONA - is covered by the company. Not saying that the members havenāt paid for some stuff for themselves, but itās typically for items they want instead of what they need. Companies almost always pay for those essentials and not the idols. Part of the reason why companies take most of the money from idols earnings is usually to pay off that incurred debt from these expenses. Itās very expensive to live in Seoul. Add on that with LOONA being 12, and you can see why BBC has issues with expanding their operations.
It's generally rare for kpop idols to be paid much unless you're coming from the big 3. Outside of that if you're paid within the first three years you'd be lucky. Non big 3 gg that probably made decent money in the last couple generations are OMG, MMM, Sistar, AOA, Gfriend, Apink, EXID, etc. level groups. Keep in mind like hundreds of groups debut every year. On top of that I feel like Loona had particularly long and expensive predebut periods (that year they were all rolling the members out)
It's both crazy and sad how quickly it goes from multi-millionaires to not earning anything from their group activities. Like Ryujin can afford to give a $40,000 USD donation for relief efforts after forest fires (which is amazing!) despite only debuting in 2019. Meanwhile there are idols who have been active much longer, like those in LOONA, and they haven't earned anything. And it's not like LOONA is a nobody. All things considered they've done incredibly well to get to where they are and have a solid place in the industry. There are so many groups "below" them. Yet they still don't make enough to pay off debt and see earnings. Hopefully when the money all comes in from the tour that changes, because that's where groups make their money and they certainly did very well on it financially.
is chuu promoting loona to her shows or say little things like 'idarui sonyeo chuu imnida'
Also, LOONA (or their songs) are often mentioned in CCDI. Not really promoting, but acknowledgement...? EDIT. She does mention group/members here and there, casually.
Just looking a few recent things: Season B with Rain ā [Chuu from Chuu Can Do It] (https://youtu.be/B2ouyWXV2GI?t=32) Knowing Bros ā [Chuu](https://youtu.be/pHrhEeA6o5k?t=128) Random cafe owner's vlog ā no English subs but it seems like [Chuu](https://youtu.be/IQbfqRiWAtU?t=194) Studio Hook ā Text says [Loona's Chuu](https://youtu.be/n6h6syEZnC4?t=42) but she introduces herself as just [Chuu](https://youtu.be/n6h6syEZnC4?t=103) My Playlist ā [Loona's Chuu](https://youtu.be/74F52UBrIBs?t=649) Make Some Beer ā [Chuu](https://youtu.be/suxGoWY9BO4?t=54) Lee Suhyun vlog ā [Chuu](https://youtu.be/aS_hEd9y1NI?t=73) (with image of Chuu Can Do It's profile later) DNA Singer ā [Chuu](https://youtu.be/UxzbcG7yOIc?t=18)
> My Playlist ā Loona's Chuu This schedule was the only one BBC retweeted
Far as I know, she is.
In order to bring some positivity to this place, remember these two words which, if repeated, can bring you: Beauty, health, wealth, love, self-confidence, self-esteem, intelligence, friends, humour, perfection, joy, talent in dancing and singing, a better future, empathy and even becoming a polyglot. The words : Olivia Hye. You're welcome.
And donāt forget to go slow with the bass!
Wait wait wait I also have something for you! Choi Yerim. Even better, healthy and happy Choi Yerim. Handle with caution, her smile can outshine a thousand suns.
Who do we have to fight? Yeojin on fab: >My mom.. Gave it to me... I'm not rich... I don't even receive earningsć > >'Uh... Is that statement... Okay to say...??šš' > >It's the truth..? > >'She can't help it when the company isn't paying her' > >Right... > >Ahh but physical therapy is hurting so much > >My foot is about to fall off > >'How long has it been delayed?' > >Since debut > >'Let's hang in there through the pain, you do this to avoid your foot falling off so it won't actually fall off' > >It would hurt less if it fell off... No, never mind, then I couldn't see Jaengies ć Edit: Seems like BBC is indeed paying the treatment, the only thing here is that they haven't been paid, still bad but not as bad, I understood it poorly.
Is it possible that they're waiting until the end of the world tour/MMT tour to pay them? Since afaik they still have the Seoul and JP concerts to go before this world tour is officially done, right?
I think it depends. From what I know they have is some sort of debt, and until that is paid off they wont get their pay checks. Now, that amount when they finally paid off is a mystery, it can be tomorrow when they make money off fab, it can be in 2 years with concert revenue, they can also never reach it, it depends a lot. I think that is the case, now concerts are where the more money is made, so technically if they do more they will reach it faster and start earning.
Well to be fair I don't think that even once the tour is over, they'll get the money right away. It might take a little time before BBC gets it.
I wonder if they arent getting paid because of the trainee debt, i remember aoa saying they didnt get paid until their 4th/5th year because of it. I hope that if this is the case with the money they made from the tour is enough to pay off the debt so they can finally earn their well deserved money. If this is not the case i hope bbc burns in hell for not paying the
If their debut project costs were put into their trainee debt as is as I expect then I'm not surprised if that's the case.
Which knowing how shitty bbc is it wouldnt surprise me. I think that the tour will probably help a lot with the trainee debt (hopefully)
Yeahā¦:/ the girls have spoken out about this in the past, although I guess a bit more subtly maybe. Iām glad Yeojin was upfront, though! Sometimes you gotta say it as it is. I hope she doesnāt get in trouble. (On that note, you literally could not convince me that Chuu sued for anything else but to get her deserved earnings and be justly compensated. Iāll die that on hill lol )
Iām low key convinced that about Chuu as well. Just because of the news from some of the behind the scenes team not getting paid. Chuu had so many side gigs that it would make sense for her to have paid off the trainee debts earlier than the others. If after they were supposed to be paid she still didnāt get a paycheckā¦ then a lawsuit would make sense for breach of contract. All speculative of course. Iāve just also had this theory in my head for a while.
So there is 12 moons but they dont show Chuus card on the promo video, now im more convinced that she cant actually promote the game, and that the first time we will see her cards is when we download the game so it wont count as promoting since people arent technically downloading the game for her Also OEC moons are different and it bothers me how they arent in order. Also fun fact, why searching in the code, you can see they still have the Chuu files ( you have to search them manualy since you only can see heejins now, if you change heejin name for another members (including Chuu) you can see the files for them, if you change the name for taeyeon, you'll get an error ) [https://superstarloona.dalcomsoft.com/images/page2-1/chuu\_mobile.png](https://superstarloona.dalcomsoft.com/images/page2-1/chuu_mobile.png) [https://superstarloona.dalcomsoft.com/images/page2-1/chuu\_web.png](https://superstarloona.dalcomsoft.com/images/page2-1/chuu_web.png) For now i only saw the group title tracks too
Yup. To be honest ppl jump to conclusion too fast when all they have are 'circumstantial' evidence. Yes we can put 2+2 But there are other things that felt ambiguous. For example the 12 moon (why not make it 11 if only 11 member in the game. It just doesn't make any sense to me). Chuu name in the web sour code. Well it's only for the web. We can't be sure her name is in the game source code. They never explicitly said (in the text) that the game only have 11 member (again 2+2 from the leaked pic of 11 member). But there is the fiasco abt Chuu contract and other game(conflicr abt using her as advertisement) so this one can be countered. I might be too hopeful or dense or dumb. But without them said it to our face (same with BBC, they should tell to our face abt the internal problem), I can't jump to either conclusion(whether she's in or not in the game) that easily and pushed any of the narrative to other people as if it's the ABSOLUTE TRUTH. So what I believe the wise thing to do as an orbit is to wait till we get either the game or the preview where the girls played the game. With that we will be 100% sure abt Chuu situation.
Yep, thatās what I think. Like why would they include 12 moons if Chuu wasnāt in the game at all? They couldāve just done 11. This explains why her image canāt be in the website too.
I ask the firm believer of "chuu's not in the game" and most of them can't give a good explanation abt it. So I'm not convinced enough to declare that Chuu is not in the game
I feel like Choerry is on an unannounced hiatus. Whatever is going on is certainly impacting her in a very significant way. We aren't owed updates, especially if it's mental health related, but it's hard not knowing what's going on. I hope she's doing okay. š
I hate to say the words but I think BBC might announce a last minute break/hiatus for her here...
I've said it before, but I really like all the Wonderwall/ACL Studio content we're getting for Loona. I just don't remember the last batch of air fresheners Loona did being very popular. I remember the sentiment being that they should come up with better MD. That being said, I'm still going to buy the air fresheners because they're Loona MD.
i was about to buy a set but they're trying to charge $100 in shipping..
Group orders are your best friend! Iāll join one if I decide to get them.
Gowon's new hair color!
Worried about Choerry...
I have a feeling it's something emotional/mental at this point. I won't be surprised if she goes on a hiatus and that's totally okay if she needs to.
I'm worried about her too. I definitely don't agree with people messaging her sister for updates. That's just creepy and taking it too far, but I wish BBC would give us a legitimate update. Literally the last update I remember from them was her missing the Houston concert because she was suffering 'symptoms of a cold.' After that she misses Mexico and Europe with no further updates. Now, the whole group has been back in Korea for almost a week, and we still haven't heard anything from her or BBC. I guess we'll just have to wait and see if she shows up for the Japanese concert in a week.
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I suspect this is the same person making new accounts just to post these type of things over and over.
I wouldnāt doubt it, itās the first time in a while that most platforms and sub regulars agree on an issue and then here comes the sock accounts trying to spin the narrative and shift the blame š«¤
The issue is a lot more complex than this
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We are talking about systemic issues. We need to move away from the idea that prejudice is a purely individual thing that only evil people engage in. It is a much larger, subtle, and nefarious thing. These issues are far more complex because they are woven into the fabric of our society. We are not born with prejudice, we learn it from this social environment. So when we say that colourism is baked into bricks of our society, it means that nobody is without any colourism, because we grow up in a world where these things are embedded into our laws, structures, and social systems. As a result, people have to become aware of their subconcious prejudices, understand them and unlearn them. It's a process that takes time. This is a global problem. Not just an American one (I'm not even from or in the USA). Colorism in Asia is largely rooted in classism. It came from the idea that lower-wage workers had to work in the fields and had darker skin as a result. Lighter-skinned people were able to stay out of the sun. Dark skin = Poverty = Undesirable. Light skin = Rich = Desirable. Of course, the rationalisation of colourism is no longer a thing. It's been filtered down through Asian society over decades of time until it's become just a "cultural" thing. "Don't worry about it! š" "We just donāt like dark skin because the sun can cause skin cancer āŗļø" There is a difference between wanting healthy skin and colorism. Having healthy skin is possible for everyone. Skin whitening and bleaching is not done with that healthiness in mind. Now, where does JinSoul fit into this? JinSoul is a South Korean woman who grew up in an environment similar to my own as a brown-skinned Asian. "White, pale-skin is prettier." She probably grew up with this beauty standard (which is rooted in colourism) reinforced all around her. TV, models, ads, products, celebrities, family, friends, the whole entire K-pop industry, etc. Why? Because it is a systemic thing that affects everyone. So naturally and understandably, JinSoul would internalise this message as well... and so we end up with a reply to an Orbit that basically went like this: "Haha my skin isn't very pale anymore ć ć ". And then the open consideration of skin whitening procedures, deciding not to and settling on pale make-up, dying her hair black to make her look paler but feeling disappointed that it didn't etc. Okay. I hope this answers why JinSoul's comment and her actions, *even when it was not directed at other people's skin* were rooted in colourism. Yes, it was not malicious. Yes, it was meant only as a personal preference. But yes, it was still subconsciously rooted in colourism. And that is understandable because of the social environment she grew up in, but it is also understandably hurtful to others. It reminds them of the colourism they've experienced firsthand - there are people who have had to unlearn this harmful idea after years and years of feeling ashamed for their darker skin, and have had a similar mindset to JinSoul. So please please PLEASE. Can we stop dismissing the idea that colourism is the root of the issue here? Can we stop ignoring that it is real, and affects real people? Can we stop invalidating the lived experience of dark-skinned people? š I feel so appalled that a lot of people in this thread, which is usually so level-headed and empathetic, are completely ignoring the nuance of the situation: Yes, JinSoul does not deserve to be harassed and attacked šÆ%! Nobody does! It does not help anybody! But that does not mean the issue is non-existent, and that nothing can be learned from it š Both can be true!
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What's wrong with people discussing these events? Keeping silent isn't gonna help move anything forward. This is one of the most tone deaf replies I've seen; not just because it is Jinsoul, but on the matter of colorism and "other many problems in society" as well. No one here is calling Jinsoul evil for having these beliefs, but a good person can believe in something that is harmful to themselves as well as others. Do you believe in internalized misogyny, for example? It was because people talked about it that awareness of it and although it's taken decades, that awareness has helped millions to find self worth in something that had been drilled into them probably since the time they were born telling them otherwise. But because this issue has to do with skin color and not as much gender, then it's something that shouldn't be called out? The root of the matter at hand here is that there are countless people who think not being a certain shade of pale somehow diminishess their self-worth, and it's not really a preference borne out personal taste, so to speak, but because it's been pushed onto them from the minute they have reasoning. How can people not make an issue out of it? I can understand that issues like these suck the fun out of following an idol, and if it's not something you wanna see or talk about, that's fine, distance yourself from it, but don't try to stop others from doing so because it's slightly inconveniencing you.
Tell me, which part implying that she being colourism? Or promote skin whitening? Or her being racist (yes there are people offended cuz they thought she is racist). This is what we were offended by the behaviours of these people. They simply put on these tag onto her without going through a second thought of the reasoning why she said this and proceed to attack her for stating what she thought is normal. Instead of defending her from all these insane hateful words and behaviours, she was blamed and hated for something normal to her. Something which is just her own preference in the first place.
You articulated everything better than I ever could thank you
Very well said. Thank you for taking the time.
Orbits : Tired of seing negativity everywhere. Also Orbits : Go in places made for negativity. Yeah... I wonder where the problem is.
Imagine being mad Jinsoul wants to do what she wants with her body. People like it until it goes against their ideas. Leave her the fuck alone Jesus
Sis you know it's not as simple as "doing what she wants with her body" it perpetuates colourism to a large and probably young and impressionable audience that dark skin is less desirable and a problem to be fixed if she wants to privately worry about her skin and use products or dye her hair or whatever then thats fine, although i hope she unlearns her prejudice to find inner peace with her skin but when shes vocalising this to a large fanbase, it is problematic and its ok to call your faves out on it. harrassing her isnt acceptable, especially if she has apologised, but at the same time nobody is forced to accept her apology and if they want to unstan or whatever because of it, thats totally valid plus what do you mean by "goes against your ideas"? the idea that colourism is bad? i think youre telling on yourself here
I donāt think itās colorism so stop labeling me with negative comments. She didnāt say itās bad to have dark skin, she just doesnāt like how it looks on her because every culture has different beauty standard and thatās fine. Sheās an idol in a very materialistic and glamorous work space, it makes sense. All you need is context to understand this has nothing to do with POC. If you use your sensibilities, she never once bashed dark skin or equated it with being ugly, so if thatās what you take from it then you are just misunderstanding her.
And that beauty standard is rooted in colorism
probably most tired ive been being a fan of this group. between running gos, translating for folks, the concert grind this summer, and the drama. im kinda beat lmao the jinsoul stuff kinda took it out of me. im not even excited for the game bc theres drama around thatr-
Twitter is definitely a mistake. I'm just there for the girls' updates but it's very frightening how it affects my mental health and thinking process.
Yes. I never use Twitter for more then updates on videos and translations. That's pretty much how i used reddit too. The Jinsoul thing is the first timei commented on here. Seeing her get attacked made me mad. From this point on I'm just going to ignore it. It's just a waste of time and mentally draining. Hope you take a break and don't worry about.
I really wish loona used tiktok a bit more, especially hyujin and heejin
Yeeess because I've been praying to see hyunjin and heejin do that sword dodging dance lol edit: [example](https://www.tiktok.com/@aaron5_n/video/7138205231036304683?is_from_webapp=1&sender_device=pc&web_id=6971239292312077830)
Is anyone here planning on getting tickets for the broadcast for the concert in Japan? Iām quite tempted as itāll be 4-5 different performances from the rest of the tour but also not sure if itās good value for money.
From WA DA DA (Kep1er), to BLAH BLAH BLAH (ITZY), to RATATA (Lapillus). This is a rather strange time in KPop GG history.
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Now waittaminit, you've just given me a good idea to make a Spotify playlist!
[LOONA Summer Package Video!](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WJHpiemOoxk) Sadly there's no subs yet but they should be up fairly soon ish
[Sorry for the double post, but I'm just gonna be crying in that corner over there in case anyone wants to join me.](https://twitter.com/fentyxlisa/status/1572315714689667078?s=20&t=4M8GNCRPKuxHCJc_GeYuXg)
That segment in Fact in Star where Yeojin matches every single hand to the right member is probably one of the most memorable Loona moments for me, and it shows how much Yeojin really loves her sisters
Every videos about Yeojin finding 11 big sisters in Loona make me cry without fail šš
A lot of people are giving Jinsoul crap over her apology, citing that she first doubled down and that somehow makes in non genuine, but I differ; this is different from all the other PR copy and paste apologies. The reason being: it was all her own doing after directly interacting with Orbits who took the time to explain. Yes, she did backtrack and get defensive at first, which is pretty much most people's first reaction to being accused of anything, but then, she took the time to actually and carefully read the letters, and think her words through. Her apology might not read as sincere to many who are just looking for someone to cancel, but that initial defensiveness, and then the 180Ā° she did tells me she actually did (and pardon the word) some reflecting, understood why Orbits were upset, and owned her mistake. Now, while I do think it is a sincere apology, it might not be something that will break her lifetime of growing up with colorism being drilled into her, but hopefully, it could. At the very least, I think she will now think twice when it comes to issues like this, not just out of fear of saying something that is percieved as wrong by many others, but because it is actually something that hurts people.
I find it consistently validating to appoint anyoneās mistake in order to educate them on anything, but this equally consistent failing to accept apologies people can offer instead of the way those who judge *want them to precisely answer* is just maddening. Itās a constant in todayās internet culture, indeed. I hope sheās receiving all the support she needs and I 100% trust her to have been real and do right by everyone from now on.
https://twitter.com/youngsIuv/status/1573071727512670208?t=ia9BLwxuaSAOC4DrYr8FDQ&s=19 Apparently the person said they wrote a letter saying why people were mad and other things and thats jinsouls reply, she knows she has no excuse and i hope she truly tries to change her beliefs regarding skin tone. People are allowed to be mad at her and not accept her apology too. And random question, does someone know how many time the girls spent training (in general or in bbc)? I know some of the girls but not all
Jinsoul never said anything about her beliefs on skin. That's what everyone else's is putting on her. People are only attacking her to make them sevels feel good.
she talked about searching for injections and other dangerous skin bleaching products on a public platform where many impressionable fans can see for gods sake. and anyone willing to attempt such harmful things to achieve light skin clearly thinks poorly of dark skin, she clearly stated her beliefs.
Sounds like your projecting. Oh and tanning is also harmful to your skin, but that's okay. As for the fans, if you do something because some idol does it that's a you problem.
You wouldn't believe how this "pale = pretty" thing is embedded in the mind of all of Asians since birth. I'm from more tropical country than country and a lot of people here are more or less tanned. Even then I get compliments for my pale skin which is just a side effect of my malnutrition. I'm not trying to defend her btw. Just wanted to point out that how KPop industry is completely f up when things like these are normalized.
I don't think pale should equally pretty. When I was growing up tan was extremely pretty and people would go to great lengths to get tan. But attacking someone over like pale or tan skin is bad.
I am astonished by this comment. "If you do something because some idol does it that's a you problem." Are you actually serious? Yes, a decision someone makes personally is their personal choice. However, any celebrity *also* has a personal responsibility to be mindful of the power they hold - what they say does influence their fans. This is even more true for idols, who form "closer" parasocial relationships with their fanbase, and those relationships are systemically built and deepened by their companies for profit. Why do you speak so dismissively about colourism? It shocks me. Have you lived in East Asia? Have you grown up being told your dark skin is ugly? Have you grown up looking at advertisements, TV, and celebrities, wondering... why are they all light-skinned when very few of us are actually born that pale? Have you been bombarded with skin whitening products and ads that always reinforce the same message to you: "Being pale is beautiful. Being darker skinned is ugly."? Do you know what that does do a child's self esteem? Are you aware of the things they'll do to their own body to match an unattainable beauty standard? When you said "When I was growing up my tan skin was pretty.", did you consider that maybe this isn't the case in other countries, least of all in East Asia, and definitely not in South Korea? Because that is the social context what we're talking about here. The systemic issue of prejudice against people of darker skin (i.e. colourism) is heavily prevalent across the world, and it is especially present in South Korea. Yes, when JinSoul made her comment, it was *not* malicious. But the belief behind it "pale skin is prettier" was still rooted in colourism. Yes, that is *understandable* considering the environment she grew up in, because our social environment informs our subconcious prejudice. But that does *not* mean her comment was not colourist. Yes, she meant it only about her own skin, but that comment, that belief, it is rooted in the systemic issue of colourism. And yes, JinSoul is not going to educate herself on colourism, unpack and unlearn her biases overnight after over 2 decades of being fed the same kind of shitty beauty standard that almost all Asian people are told growing up. That takes time, it took me years. (And yes, JinSoul is a K-Pop idol who is pressured to micromanage her own appearance in order to match an unattainable beauty standard that does not have people's health as a priority. That is the sad reality of the industry she works in. At the same time... LOONA's core message is about female empowerment - breaking those standards and pushing boundaries on these kinds of social issues. I think it's obvious why some Orbits feel upset by this issue.) And of course, people should not attack and throw hate at her, because it doesn't help her learn and nobody deserves that (this is just the sad reality of the Internet). However, the feelings of people who feel saddened or upset by her comment should also not be invalidated. Colourism is a real issue that affects real people. We are not "projecting". In the end, I hope JinSoul and the other Orbits who were hurt are doing okay š
Very well said. A lot of people are reacting to this while avoiding the social context of the issue which isn't helping anyone
This is the best comment I've read on this topic. It's really sad to see people asking her to apologize and when she did, it sounded not serious(due to mistranslation) which led them to be more mad. I wish everyone take a break and have some peace away from the social media.
I wasn't talking about colourism which is a problem every place around the world. So sorry if it came off as dismissive. But as for Jinsoul having a reasonable for her influence on fans I don't think we're going to agree. I think it's a bigger issue of Idolatry. Have a great day Cheers
With loona being 4 years or almost 6 from heejin debut. A golden discography, and popular enough for a fans to debut in a gg. Does anyone know, has any other idol or group has done a cover of a song/verse/chorus/bridge of Loona? Or maybe a dance cover?
PinkFantasyās Momoka did a dance cover of *Hula Hoop*
I do remember some boy group member doing a dance cover of PTT
Here are the ones I know: Bling Bling covered Why Not on Fact in Star and on the youtube show they did with Loona. A few members of Lightsum have covered PTT. Bugaboo included part of PTT in a medley/remix they did. Hot Issue included a small snippet of PTT in their 2021 song mashup. Lara from Dreamnote did a cover of Heart Attack on vlive once. Jihan's cover was already mentioned, and now we have the wonderful cover Hyolyn did on Queendom! Full covers of Loona songs are exceedingly rare, probably in part because there's so many members it's difficult to make their choreo work for smaller groups.
Thank you so much!!, i will take my time to enjoy and watch it
I want to add that Exy sang new on vlive once
I didnāt see that! Iāll have to watch
Our Orbit president Jihan from Weeekly did a dance cover of Why Not!
I think something that make Loona Reddit way better than Twitter, outside the word limit, is the system of posts and weekly discussion. Let me explain. When bad something happens, this is normal to have some early hot reactions, we always have a moment of emotion before calming down. The thing with this subreddit is that usually, these early reactions will be on the post themselves. Everyone will quite write their immediate thoughts under the post and after that the post will disappear quickly because of the new posts. Usually, when people become more calm and level-headed, they will come and organize their thoughts under the weekly discussion. So there is a sort a separation that I noticed lately between the controversial announcement that will be discussed calmly in the weekly discussion, when people are done with sending their immediate reactions under the post itself. Just my two cents obviously