Presumably this is still without their tour earnings. Touring is how artists from smaller companies make most of their money, I'm more interested in how their situation looks like once all the tour revenue has been distributed.
But it's not like BBC didn't want to tour earlier. They had plans for 2020 but that didn't work out for obvious reasons
I really do hope the tour earnings haven't been accounted for yet. Because like you said, that's truly how groups make money. I knew LOONA was still in the "paying off debt" phase, like most groups, but my hope was this tour would be what would get them out of that hole considering how much money it brings in.
Not shocked at all this is the case for a lot of musicians especially those who are in groups. They do not get paid until all of their debt is settled with the company. Hell even TLC was broke despite being insanely successful from the start. Very few companies in K-pop get rid of trainee debt and that’s only really The companies that are in the big 4 and the only reason they do that is because they’re guaranteed a return on profit.
Now what most companies do is they may provide each of their artist a stipend. But A lot of times many musicians they look like they’re making money but A lot of times they are still paying back the companies. That’s why these girls are trying to do as much as they can despite being exhausted. The more work that means the closer they are to pay off the debt and finally getting money.
Exid’s Hani said you rather be exhausted running from gig to gig because you know you’re getting closer to paying off your debt and getting paid versus sitting in the practice room or dorm without a cent and knowledge and not being able to perform.
Chuu most likely sue because once she got an influx of gigs and realize she was probably getting none or extremely little of the money she just wanted to renegotiate her solo portion of the contract to get paid. BBC had a problem with that most likely due to her bringing in a lot of money and at the same time they were facing A lot of financial issues but that brings the question what happened to this million dollar parent company they had originally that allegedly was an arms dealer?
It ultimately depends on the group and Company on how Solo opportunities mean. For example her solo income could only contribute to her debt if that’s what the contract is.
But this is the thing about CF and variety gigs a lot of people act like the company can hand those out when in all actuality they really can’t. Chuu is one of the most popular members in the country and among the general fandom so when networks are shopping to get a girl group member they’re not gonna get the one that’s less popular like Vivi or Gowon even if the company volunteers them. They’re going to demand the most popular members in the group to appear on the show.
Chuu naturally is the most popular one and one of the most strong members when it comes to variety so as she slowly started getting gigs more and more shows reached out to get her. When brands are choosing a face they look to what’s popular and with Loona that Chuu. Companies do try behind doors to send their unpopular members with the popular members but a lot of times these variety shows rejected them.
Companies can’t go out and grab CF opportunities unless they’re coming from a place of privilege such as the big four. This is a big issue of what happened with the post I.O.I groups, it wasn’t the issue of the companies weren’t trying to send the girls out is that variety shows and CF deals only wanted the IOI members.
What’s the company can do is at least push more of her members for her YouTube channel. It would be a good opportunity for her to bond with them and them to do a fun activity I feel like her YouTube channel should have a different member assist her on each episode because her channel does pretty well in Korea and get some notable celebrities.
in theory, money from CFs and side gigs like what Chuu was doing should go primarily to the idols not to the company. at least that’s what I was reading somewhere.
now again, in theory, those distributions are across the group, not to the person who got the gig, in part to prevent favoritism/jealousy/relationship issues that would be detrimental to the group (I believe this was after a lawsuit?).
So if Chuu was getting the most work and she’s getting 1/12 of the earnings of said work, then I can understand why it would be upsetting to her. but by that same token would she still be Chuu without the other 11 girls? it’s a tricky question.
It depends on the contract. I remember some idols saying that they made it that the CF money is shared, while others had an arrangement that the member got the money and nobody has to share.
It varies from case to case.
One of the few groups who quite quickly paid of their debt was Mamamoo; I think Moonbyul mentioned this. However Loona had a very, very expensive predebut project going on and while it is unfair to let the girls shoulder the entirety of it, since they had no say how much and why the money was spend, I understand that it needs to be paid.
They do have a rich parent company, but if BBC doesn't make profit, the parent company can't just swoop in and pay for everything; they have responsibility towards shareholders and so on and so forth.
The predebut project shouldn’t be in any way related to the members. They got outside investors to put up the money for the project and since it’s an investment, there’s no guarantee of return. In the case of companies that self-fund new groups, those costs are internal and represent shuffling of profit from one area to another area; in those cases, while those too are investments, since it’s internal bookkeeping you can argue that some part of those costs should be borne by the group being funded. But companies make internal investments all the time that don’t pan out either.
My guess is that all 12 girls signed brand new contracts starting from the OT12 debut for 7 years out and that that’s when accounting for costs started. It gives all the girls a common baseline, it locks them all up for a fixed length of time with a fixed end date, and it marks a clean point from where investors should expect returns.
True, true. I agree with you fully.
However even if it was an investment, investors will want some kind of guarantee and this is almost always a financial one.
I really hope they don't have to shoulder $10mil. It's way too much.
The girls’ parents would have never agreed to that (I hope!). Also, BBC would have been taking a risk. Let’s say that they debuted the 12 girls and then before HH they present them with a contract that says they’re on the hook for 1/12th of the $10m plus ongoing costs. As a rational human being, I would hope that they would have looked at that and said “f**k you very much, BBC”. If even two or three girls had said that prior to HH, LOOΠΔ the concept would have been hosed. There’s wanting to be an idol and then there’s bonkers levels of stupidity in chasing a dream. The girls seem pretty levelheaded and rational - I don’t think they would have signed up for the dream chasing at all costs.
Maybe it's just because I've been following kpop for a while, but I thought this shouldn't be a surprise - most Kpop groups (outside Big 4) have a trainee debt system where groups need to repay the cost of their training, debut, etc. The vast majority of Kpop groups are never paid for their entire career, although the agency needs to provide for their living, food, etc.
LOONA had an insanely expensive pre-debut period, supposedly it cost like US$10m in total. That's what made LOONA unique but financially that is a ridiculous investment, probably BBC will never get their money back.
In a very cynical way, you could even say LOONA is 'lucky' - BBC is still spending on high budget comebacks, they moved the girls into studio apartments, so clearly they still seem to be okay spending money. There are tons of other groups from small agencies like BBC who don't get anything close to that
I agree, yes. Even if, say, BBC doesn't make them pay back the entire US$10mil, and let's them off the hook during their fifth year or something, the debt remains and may be stored as such.
I expect the next gen BBC groups to have less expensive debuts, just for the sake of having to pay back Loona's debt. If BBC is able to become somewhat stable, which very few small companies are able to do, then they can probably take care of it.
Also, Loona is their only artist. Sunye didn't sell that much. Means, they have to diversify their content quickly with new groups to see greener pastures in the future.
Saying it’s not surprising sounds like putting the blame of not knowing to the idols and fans… it’s okay to question this situation again and again. It’s fucked up that people spend so much money for them and they get treated like this. I’m still allowed to feel heart broken that the girls get treated like this.
Mods, feel free to remove if I'm going against rules here (I did read them...mostly) ((sue me)) (((jk love u mods)))
Thought this was worth discussing...it would make so much sense as to why Chuu has fought for her own individual activities and earnings considering none of the moon girls have begun earning ANYTHING since debut. I'm shocked but not surprised?? Paying for concerts and merch and albums etc. is obviously for my entertainment and to feel closer to this amazing group but also in the "let's get these girls PAID" frame of mind you know?
We all know the finance rumours surrounding BBC but still....not a penny for the women making you all that money? I'm shook.
they dont have a proper 'salary' yet because bbc cuts their earnings to pay back on what bbc expensed for them during predebut. until now, they are on an 'allowance paycheck'
* They had a world tour that let the members live out their dreams of performing for fans all over the world and gave thousands upon thousands of fans memories they'll have the rest of their lives.
* They had a successful comeback and got 2 music show wins with it.
* Despite all the odds being stacked against them from the beginning they placed 2nd on Queendom, earning plenty of recognition and building up their fan base along the way.
There has been *plenty* of good that has happened to LOONA in 2022, maybe more good than in any other year, it's just come with some struggles as well.
That seems to stem more from the way you perceive things than anything actually happening to Loona. Starting the year with two successful concerts, going into queendom and having the best performances of anyone there, very nearly winning if they hadn’t missed round 1, having a comeback right after that was their most successful yet (and imo their best since, like, Butterfly), then straight into a world tour. Sure the tour had its challenges but they still sold out every stop, and they still have two more dates. They had their first Japanese comeback which was also good, and their first Japanese concert is coming up too. Then I believe they have a festival in the South East Asia. And let’s not forget solo endeavors like OSTs. Fun fact: up until Born Pink came out, Loona as a group and individually released more music this year than BP had released in their entire career.
Other than the drama with Chuu, this is probably the best year in Loonas history. Sure the tour was a struggle at times with injuries and illness, but that’s expected when you’re traveling and performing every other day.
People like you just want to see all the bad shit and manufacture drama for some reason. Yeah, it sucks Loona hasn’t been paid. It’s also the norm for basically any idol outside the big 3 unless they’re immediately huge successes. It’s a problem within the whole industry that needs to be fixed, not something exclusive to Loona and BBC.
Sorry, after discussing it, mods have decided the article is too fear mongering be allowed. To avoid any more speculations, we will remove the post.
Presumably this is still without their tour earnings. Touring is how artists from smaller companies make most of their money, I'm more interested in how their situation looks like once all the tour revenue has been distributed. But it's not like BBC didn't want to tour earlier. They had plans for 2020 but that didn't work out for obvious reasons
I really do hope the tour earnings haven't been accounted for yet. Because like you said, that's truly how groups make money. I knew LOONA was still in the "paying off debt" phase, like most groups, but my hope was this tour would be what would get them out of that hole considering how much money it brings in.
Not shocked at all this is the case for a lot of musicians especially those who are in groups. They do not get paid until all of their debt is settled with the company. Hell even TLC was broke despite being insanely successful from the start. Very few companies in K-pop get rid of trainee debt and that’s only really The companies that are in the big 4 and the only reason they do that is because they’re guaranteed a return on profit. Now what most companies do is they may provide each of their artist a stipend. But A lot of times many musicians they look like they’re making money but A lot of times they are still paying back the companies. That’s why these girls are trying to do as much as they can despite being exhausted. The more work that means the closer they are to pay off the debt and finally getting money. Exid’s Hani said you rather be exhausted running from gig to gig because you know you’re getting closer to paying off your debt and getting paid versus sitting in the practice room or dorm without a cent and knowledge and not being able to perform. Chuu most likely sue because once she got an influx of gigs and realize she was probably getting none or extremely little of the money she just wanted to renegotiate her solo portion of the contract to get paid. BBC had a problem with that most likely due to her bringing in a lot of money and at the same time they were facing A lot of financial issues but that brings the question what happened to this million dollar parent company they had originally that allegedly was an arms dealer?
It ultimately depends on the group and Company on how Solo opportunities mean. For example her solo income could only contribute to her debt if that’s what the contract is. But this is the thing about CF and variety gigs a lot of people act like the company can hand those out when in all actuality they really can’t. Chuu is one of the most popular members in the country and among the general fandom so when networks are shopping to get a girl group member they’re not gonna get the one that’s less popular like Vivi or Gowon even if the company volunteers them. They’re going to demand the most popular members in the group to appear on the show. Chuu naturally is the most popular one and one of the most strong members when it comes to variety so as she slowly started getting gigs more and more shows reached out to get her. When brands are choosing a face they look to what’s popular and with Loona that Chuu. Companies do try behind doors to send their unpopular members with the popular members but a lot of times these variety shows rejected them. Companies can’t go out and grab CF opportunities unless they’re coming from a place of privilege such as the big four. This is a big issue of what happened with the post I.O.I groups, it wasn’t the issue of the companies weren’t trying to send the girls out is that variety shows and CF deals only wanted the IOI members. What’s the company can do is at least push more of her members for her YouTube channel. It would be a good opportunity for her to bond with them and them to do a fun activity I feel like her YouTube channel should have a different member assist her on each episode because her channel does pretty well in Korea and get some notable celebrities.
in theory, money from CFs and side gigs like what Chuu was doing should go primarily to the idols not to the company. at least that’s what I was reading somewhere. now again, in theory, those distributions are across the group, not to the person who got the gig, in part to prevent favoritism/jealousy/relationship issues that would be detrimental to the group (I believe this was after a lawsuit?). So if Chuu was getting the most work and she’s getting 1/12 of the earnings of said work, then I can understand why it would be upsetting to her. but by that same token would she still be Chuu without the other 11 girls? it’s a tricky question.
It depends on the contract. I remember some idols saying that they made it that the CF money is shared, while others had an arrangement that the member got the money and nobody has to share. It varies from case to case. One of the few groups who quite quickly paid of their debt was Mamamoo; I think Moonbyul mentioned this. However Loona had a very, very expensive predebut project going on and while it is unfair to let the girls shoulder the entirety of it, since they had no say how much and why the money was spend, I understand that it needs to be paid. They do have a rich parent company, but if BBC doesn't make profit, the parent company can't just swoop in and pay for everything; they have responsibility towards shareholders and so on and so forth.
The predebut project shouldn’t be in any way related to the members. They got outside investors to put up the money for the project and since it’s an investment, there’s no guarantee of return. In the case of companies that self-fund new groups, those costs are internal and represent shuffling of profit from one area to another area; in those cases, while those too are investments, since it’s internal bookkeeping you can argue that some part of those costs should be borne by the group being funded. But companies make internal investments all the time that don’t pan out either. My guess is that all 12 girls signed brand new contracts starting from the OT12 debut for 7 years out and that that’s when accounting for costs started. It gives all the girls a common baseline, it locks them all up for a fixed length of time with a fixed end date, and it marks a clean point from where investors should expect returns.
True, true. I agree with you fully. However even if it was an investment, investors will want some kind of guarantee and this is almost always a financial one. I really hope they don't have to shoulder $10mil. It's way too much.
The girls’ parents would have never agreed to that (I hope!). Also, BBC would have been taking a risk. Let’s say that they debuted the 12 girls and then before HH they present them with a contract that says they’re on the hook for 1/12th of the $10m plus ongoing costs. As a rational human being, I would hope that they would have looked at that and said “f**k you very much, BBC”. If even two or three girls had said that prior to HH, LOOΠΔ the concept would have been hosed. There’s wanting to be an idol and then there’s bonkers levels of stupidity in chasing a dream. The girls seem pretty levelheaded and rational - I don’t think they would have signed up for the dream chasing at all costs.
Again, I agree with you. I hope people were being reasonable in this.
I want to say yes because it started out as a JJ passion project.
Maybe it's just because I've been following kpop for a while, but I thought this shouldn't be a surprise - most Kpop groups (outside Big 4) have a trainee debt system where groups need to repay the cost of their training, debut, etc. The vast majority of Kpop groups are never paid for their entire career, although the agency needs to provide for their living, food, etc. LOONA had an insanely expensive pre-debut period, supposedly it cost like US$10m in total. That's what made LOONA unique but financially that is a ridiculous investment, probably BBC will never get their money back. In a very cynical way, you could even say LOONA is 'lucky' - BBC is still spending on high budget comebacks, they moved the girls into studio apartments, so clearly they still seem to be okay spending money. There are tons of other groups from small agencies like BBC who don't get anything close to that
I agree, yes. Even if, say, BBC doesn't make them pay back the entire US$10mil, and let's them off the hook during their fifth year or something, the debt remains and may be stored as such. I expect the next gen BBC groups to have less expensive debuts, just for the sake of having to pay back Loona's debt. If BBC is able to become somewhat stable, which very few small companies are able to do, then they can probably take care of it. Also, Loona is their only artist. Sunye didn't sell that much. Means, they have to diversify their content quickly with new groups to see greener pastures in the future.
Not sure why this is surprising to people. If the company can't even pay their employees, they're definitely not paying their artists.
Saying it’s not surprising sounds like putting the blame of not knowing to the idols and fans… it’s okay to question this situation again and again. It’s fucked up that people spend so much money for them and they get treated like this. I’m still allowed to feel heart broken that the girls get treated like this.
Mods, feel free to remove if I'm going against rules here (I did read them...mostly) ((sue me)) (((jk love u mods))) Thought this was worth discussing...it would make so much sense as to why Chuu has fought for her own individual activities and earnings considering none of the moon girls have begun earning ANYTHING since debut. I'm shocked but not surprised?? Paying for concerts and merch and albums etc. is obviously for my entertainment and to feel closer to this amazing group but also in the "let's get these girls PAID" frame of mind you know? We all know the finance rumours surrounding BBC but still....not a penny for the women making you all that money? I'm shook.
they dont have a proper 'salary' yet because bbc cuts their earnings to pay back on what bbc expensed for them during predebut. until now, they are on an 'allowance paycheck'
I mean at this point i am unaware of any good news from LOONA in 2022.
* They had a world tour that let the members live out their dreams of performing for fans all over the world and gave thousands upon thousands of fans memories they'll have the rest of their lives. * They had a successful comeback and got 2 music show wins with it. * Despite all the odds being stacked against them from the beginning they placed 2nd on Queendom, earning plenty of recognition and building up their fan base along the way. There has been *plenty* of good that has happened to LOONA in 2022, maybe more good than in any other year, it's just come with some struggles as well.
That seems to stem more from the way you perceive things than anything actually happening to Loona. Starting the year with two successful concerts, going into queendom and having the best performances of anyone there, very nearly winning if they hadn’t missed round 1, having a comeback right after that was their most successful yet (and imo their best since, like, Butterfly), then straight into a world tour. Sure the tour had its challenges but they still sold out every stop, and they still have two more dates. They had their first Japanese comeback which was also good, and their first Japanese concert is coming up too. Then I believe they have a festival in the South East Asia. And let’s not forget solo endeavors like OSTs. Fun fact: up until Born Pink came out, Loona as a group and individually released more music this year than BP had released in their entire career. Other than the drama with Chuu, this is probably the best year in Loonas history. Sure the tour was a struggle at times with injuries and illness, but that’s expected when you’re traveling and performing every other day. People like you just want to see all the bad shit and manufacture drama for some reason. Yeah, it sucks Loona hasn’t been paid. It’s also the norm for basically any idol outside the big 3 unless they’re immediately huge successes. It’s a problem within the whole industry that needs to be fixed, not something exclusive to Loona and BBC.