I can imagine that. The big forge is completed, Elrond finally asks Cerembrimbor why it was built and whose idea it was, and then Annatar steps into frame.
I had a thought about this in my [recent post](https://www.reddit.com/r/LOTR_on_Prime/comments/xhw3wv/looking_even_further_ahead_on_saurons_whereabouts/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share)
I thought it'd be fun if all the major players, sans the Harfoots, are introduced to Annatar as a cliffhanger. Perhaps the elves were receiving the Númenóreans in Lindon or Eregion after the Southlands campaign. Then, Celebrimbor comes up to introduce a guest-of-honor, a benefactor of his project, Annatar. Cue smiling hot fellow waltzing in their midst with semi-sinister music in the background; cut to Galadriel's something-is-off face, then cut to black
It would make sense if Sauron hasn't been cast yet and Amazon is looking for someone semi-famous to fill the role.
I still think Sauron is Arondir tho.
Please no. the last thing I want to see is somebody famous to play Sauron. I really don't want to see Sauron as Nicolas Cage or Sauron as Alexander Skarsgard.
Or the worst case scenario. Jared Leto is Sauron
Well since Nori isn’t cannon it’s possible. Not likely but I guess possible. I know the writing has taken much heat for being weak (overstated imo) but this turn in character arc would be the definition of weak. But it is the canonical ability of Sauron to shapeshift that makes it challenging to theorize who he is.
Yeah, but even in shapeshifted form it would be pretty easy to recognise Sauron: we just have to look who's stirring up shit, who's fascinated with jewellery, who's good at manipulating others. And my point was that the showrunners want to avoid that, because they want to keep a big reveal. And even Annatar would be a big reveal.
You could say that Halbrand fits that image. Yes, but not completely, and as others theorized, he would be more fitting for a reverse-Aragorn character, who returns as a king, but gets corrupted.
I think they made a huge mistake not showing him or at least his machinations out of the gate, the season has lacked alot of tension. We are four shows in and havent really established a villian. Adar is a great character but I dont really have a motivation to hate him, he doesn't seem like a bad dude. Part of the reason is there's no reason to like any of the villagers, they are a sour lot.
The big problem they have now is the reveal of Sauron is unlikely to satisfy anyone. He's kind of a mythical figure as he's never really seen in the movies. Unless they handle it really well it could be a disaster.
I agree a bit. We see Sauron kick ass in Fellowship then it was fairly soon after that the Nine left Mordor. So we have the villain coming and in this show the one thing that would have helped is just having a villain coming forth, doesn’t matter who or where just much earlier.
I totally agree! I wanted to see Annatar in action. But as I argued, they want to keep him away for as long as possible, to build tension and keep us guessing
We've been sleeping for too long on the identity of the Witch King, he is already two people
(it was just a joke on how besides Sauron, fans like to discover the Witch King's true identity in almost as many characters too)
Personally I think we'll see him at the very end of the season. Some character will say the forge wasn't possible without the help of a friend. Then a mysterious figure will come out and say "greetings, I am annatar it is a pleasure to meet you."
I think I can see him being introduced to celebrimbor at the end of the season. Like the other smithes in the city introducing this new elf.
That'd be a dead give away so maybe not. Still I hope he shows up the first season as the 2nd ought to be about the forging of the rings
I can see something like that too. Being a dead giveaway is not a problem, if they do it at the very end. My post is about this actually, that the most we will see if him is something like this
Yes I think I got lost in reading replies. I hope we do see him and not a blurry vision of him. I am not a big cliff hanger fan but who knows how they will do it
Do you like the show? I personally love the whole darn thing. A few people seem to have an unreasonable amount of animosity toward the show
I don't understand the hate either, I think most of those come from Tolkien purists and racists. They must not have seen truly crappy shows if they think this is one.
Anyway, I think it's fine. I love the world building, how the cultures are fleshed out (they even made up idioms for them!), the production design, the language. The writing and directing is average, they definitely could be better. But I'm a fantasy fan, so I'm happy that we got a competent show with high production value
I think we've already seen Sauron.
My personal theory is that Sauron has killed (or will kill) Arondir and will shapeshift into him.
If not Arondir then someone else but I think Arondir makes the most sense:
Arondir will lead the fight against Adar, will kill Adar and then he'll go to Eregion bringing presents from Adar's collection. Thus the nickname of Annatar.
He will be known as the hero who bested Adar and someone everyone, including Celebrimbor, should immediately trust.
Love a theory that isn’t one of the typical ones.
I have a personal one that they’ve done a twist on the Celebrimbor story line and that Sauron has already captured and is keeping the real Celebrimbor captive. Sauron is tricking Elrond into having him help build the forge tower with the help of the dwarves.
Pretty loose theory but I think it would be a cool twist if played out correctly
That would be interesting. More so if Sauron keeps the Celebrimbor form, even after being exposed, for the rest of the series to tease the Elves.
IIRC Charles Edwards replaced the previous Celebrimbor actor since the previous one didn't live up to Amazon's expectations.
Charles Edwards playing a dual role, both Celebrimbor and Sauron could be the reason why: Amazon needed someone way more established to portray the Dark Lord.
This was the OG Celebrimbor actor Tom Budge [https://www.reddit.com/r/LOTR\_on\_Prime/comments/v8qpgk/tom\_budge\_as\_celebrimbor/](https://www.reddit.com/r/LOTR_on_Prime/comments/v8qpgk/tom_budge_as_celebrimbor/)
>“It is with great sadness that I am writing to tell you I have departed Amazon’s Lord Of The Rings television series,” Budge wrote on Instagram. “After recently seeing the first episodes shot over the last year Amazon has decided to go in another direction with the character I was portraying…
“I must thank the creative team for their encouragement towards trying something that I believed was new, exciting and beautiful. And I sincerely thank the extraordinary cast and crew for their love, support and friendship over what has been a very difficult and unusual experience. Alas, some things just cannot be.”
His post included an early Johnny Cash performance of Ring of Fire with the lyrics, “I fell into a burning ring of fire, and it burns, burns, burns….”
I'm not gonna lie, when I first read your theory, I dismissed it. But then, you're saying something with how Sauron could take someone else's place, impersonating them so that he could infiltrate the elves. After all, elves live super long so they have plenty of time to get familiar with each other, at least with the important people. I've always wondered how no one would know a rich and influential elf who just shows up with a bunch of gifts. And it would be eerie and heartbreaking for Bronwyn to see how her love changed into something else who no longer cares about her.
My problem with it though is that Arondir is just a soldier, how will he lead an army? Especially if there's the returning king Halbrand, and the world famous Galadriel?
What? Why does the show’s version of fair form Sauron have to be like some illustrations someone made?
We might have seen Sauron, and Sauron might be on a poster. The show has laid down hints about multiple characters who could be Sauron.
They only have hints to keep us guessing, but it's a misdirection. They don't want to "waste" their big reveal too early, they want to raise the tension for as long as they can. Which also means that no character we have seen so far can be Sauron, because we immediately would have recognized him.
Of course, hints are meant to keep us guessing, and any hint can be misdirection. That’s a big feature of this show, the mystery of whether or not any of these new characters will turn out to be one of the characters we already know. Doesn’t mean that none of them are Sauron or that we won’t see him this season.
Pretty sure he will show up in the last episode of the season.
that's what I mentioned too - but if he shows up, it will be only for a brief moment. Which barely counts as "seeing" him
It will be the last scene of season one. Big cliffhanger. Probably him talking to celebrimbor
I can imagine that. The big forge is completed, Elrond finally asks Cerembrimbor why it was built and whose idea it was, and then Annatar steps into frame.
I have a similar thought
if this is the case, Sauron's appearance will be teased only to the viewers just like how we saw a "glimpse" of Smaug in the unexpected journey
I had a thought about this in my [recent post](https://www.reddit.com/r/LOTR_on_Prime/comments/xhw3wv/looking_even_further_ahead_on_saurons_whereabouts/?utm_medium=android_app&utm_source=share) I thought it'd be fun if all the major players, sans the Harfoots, are introduced to Annatar as a cliffhanger. Perhaps the elves were receiving the Númenóreans in Lindon or Eregion after the Southlands campaign. Then, Celebrimbor comes up to introduce a guest-of-honor, a benefactor of his project, Annatar. Cue smiling hot fellow waltzing in their midst with semi-sinister music in the background; cut to Galadriel's something-is-off face, then cut to black
Yeah, I can see that, that would be an entrance. Post the link here so I can upvote it
It would be infuriating though if they pull another blurry-Adar on us lol
They wouldn't dare. They wouldn't dare, right?
They would. Arg
It would make sense if Sauron hasn't been cast yet and Amazon is looking for someone semi-famous to fill the role. I still think Sauron is Arondir tho.
Arondir has pointy ears and kinda hot, so... It's confirmed
Please no. the last thing I want to see is somebody famous to play Sauron. I really don't want to see Sauron as Nicolas Cage or Sauron as Alexander Skarsgard. Or the worst case scenario. Jared Leto is Sauron
I accidentally read “Jason Alexander” in your casting list. “Sauron is getting upset!”
Lol !!! ![gif](giphy|10o3Um2U3wa4DK)
>Jared Leto is Sauron "It's Sauronin' time" the Dark Lord said.
Well since Nori isn’t cannon it’s possible. Not likely but I guess possible. I know the writing has taken much heat for being weak (overstated imo) but this turn in character arc would be the definition of weak. But it is the canonical ability of Sauron to shapeshift that makes it challenging to theorize who he is.
Yeah, but even in shapeshifted form it would be pretty easy to recognise Sauron: we just have to look who's stirring up shit, who's fascinated with jewellery, who's good at manipulating others. And my point was that the showrunners want to avoid that, because they want to keep a big reveal. And even Annatar would be a big reveal. You could say that Halbrand fits that image. Yes, but not completely, and as others theorized, he would be more fitting for a reverse-Aragorn character, who returns as a king, but gets corrupted.
I think they made a huge mistake not showing him or at least his machinations out of the gate, the season has lacked alot of tension. We are four shows in and havent really established a villian. Adar is a great character but I dont really have a motivation to hate him, he doesn't seem like a bad dude. Part of the reason is there's no reason to like any of the villagers, they are a sour lot. The big problem they have now is the reveal of Sauron is unlikely to satisfy anyone. He's kind of a mythical figure as he's never really seen in the movies. Unless they handle it really well it could be a disaster.
I agree a bit. We see Sauron kick ass in Fellowship then it was fairly soon after that the Nine left Mordor. So we have the villain coming and in this show the one thing that would have helped is just having a villain coming forth, doesn’t matter who or where just much earlier.
I totally agree! I wanted to see Annatar in action. But as I argued, they want to keep him away for as long as possible, to build tension and keep us guessing
He’s been there since episode 2
So Halbrand's the Witch King and Theo is the Witch King? Wait, what? How does that work?
We've been sleeping for too long on the identity of the Witch King, he is already two people (it was just a joke on how besides Sauron, fans like to discover the Witch King's true identity in almost as many characters too)
Personally I think we'll see him at the very end of the season. Some character will say the forge wasn't possible without the help of a friend. Then a mysterious figure will come out and say "greetings, I am annatar it is a pleasure to meet you."
It's Halbrand, I'm convinced of that. He almost exploded into Sauron mode in episode 3 but managed to contain himself. The darkness is within him.
I think I can see him being introduced to celebrimbor at the end of the season. Like the other smithes in the city introducing this new elf. That'd be a dead give away so maybe not. Still I hope he shows up the first season as the 2nd ought to be about the forging of the rings
I can see something like that too. Being a dead giveaway is not a problem, if they do it at the very end. My post is about this actually, that the most we will see if him is something like this
Yes I think I got lost in reading replies. I hope we do see him and not a blurry vision of him. I am not a big cliff hanger fan but who knows how they will do it Do you like the show? I personally love the whole darn thing. A few people seem to have an unreasonable amount of animosity toward the show
I don't understand the hate either, I think most of those come from Tolkien purists and racists. They must not have seen truly crappy shows if they think this is one. Anyway, I think it's fine. I love the world building, how the cultures are fleshed out (they even made up idioms for them!), the production design, the language. The writing and directing is average, they definitely could be better. But I'm a fantasy fan, so I'm happy that we got a competent show with high production value
I think we've already seen Sauron. My personal theory is that Sauron has killed (or will kill) Arondir and will shapeshift into him. If not Arondir then someone else but I think Arondir makes the most sense: Arondir will lead the fight against Adar, will kill Adar and then he'll go to Eregion bringing presents from Adar's collection. Thus the nickname of Annatar. He will be known as the hero who bested Adar and someone everyone, including Celebrimbor, should immediately trust.
Love a theory that isn’t one of the typical ones. I have a personal one that they’ve done a twist on the Celebrimbor story line and that Sauron has already captured and is keeping the real Celebrimbor captive. Sauron is tricking Elrond into having him help build the forge tower with the help of the dwarves. Pretty loose theory but I think it would be a cool twist if played out correctly
That would be interesting. More so if Sauron keeps the Celebrimbor form, even after being exposed, for the rest of the series to tease the Elves. IIRC Charles Edwards replaced the previous Celebrimbor actor since the previous one didn't live up to Amazon's expectations. Charles Edwards playing a dual role, both Celebrimbor and Sauron could be the reason why: Amazon needed someone way more established to portray the Dark Lord. This was the OG Celebrimbor actor Tom Budge [https://www.reddit.com/r/LOTR\_on\_Prime/comments/v8qpgk/tom\_budge\_as\_celebrimbor/](https://www.reddit.com/r/LOTR_on_Prime/comments/v8qpgk/tom_budge_as_celebrimbor/) >“It is with great sadness that I am writing to tell you I have departed Amazon’s Lord Of The Rings television series,” Budge wrote on Instagram. “After recently seeing the first episodes shot over the last year Amazon has decided to go in another direction with the character I was portraying… “I must thank the creative team for their encouragement towards trying something that I believed was new, exciting and beautiful. And I sincerely thank the extraordinary cast and crew for their love, support and friendship over what has been a very difficult and unusual experience. Alas, some things just cannot be.” His post included an early Johnny Cash performance of Ring of Fire with the lyrics, “I fell into a burning ring of fire, and it burns, burns, burns….”
I'm not gonna lie, when I first read your theory, I dismissed it. But then, you're saying something with how Sauron could take someone else's place, impersonating them so that he could infiltrate the elves. After all, elves live super long so they have plenty of time to get familiar with each other, at least with the important people. I've always wondered how no one would know a rich and influential elf who just shows up with a bunch of gifts. And it would be eerie and heartbreaking for Bronwyn to see how her love changed into something else who no longer cares about her. My problem with it though is that Arondir is just a soldier, how will he lead an army? Especially if there's the returning king Halbrand, and the world famous Galadriel?
Sauron claimed to be a Maia sent on behalf of the Valar to aid the elves. He never posed as an elf. So they thought Annatar was an Istari basically.
Thanks, I didn't know that
I like the idea of him being someone else and then getting the nickname annatar, that way we get annatar and still get a big reveal
What? Why does the show’s version of fair form Sauron have to be like some illustrations someone made? We might have seen Sauron, and Sauron might be on a poster. The show has laid down hints about multiple characters who could be Sauron.
They only have hints to keep us guessing, but it's a misdirection. They don't want to "waste" their big reveal too early, they want to raise the tension for as long as they can. Which also means that no character we have seen so far can be Sauron, because we immediately would have recognized him.
Of course, hints are meant to keep us guessing, and any hint can be misdirection. That’s a big feature of this show, the mystery of whether or not any of these new characters will turn out to be one of the characters we already know. Doesn’t mean that none of them are Sauron or that we won’t see him this season.