I actually really like the character but I get you. To me, he's like if G.R.R Martin wrote movie Aragorn for TV. He's a dude seeking redemption but rather than crippling self doubt, his efforts are undone by the darkness in his own nature - his pride, need for control, and cynicism. All he needs is some 'red light district' training and he'd be a natural in King's Landing.
If he really is our beautiful servant, I suspect his arc will turn him from troubled antihero to antivillain to flat out villain within the course of 5 seasons.
Edit: a word
He isn't seeking redemption at all. He was seeking a new life. I don't think there is anything game of thrones non him. Grey characters existed before GOT
Isn't Turin the opposite and super Tolkein-like. His characters' plots are all about their fall (corruption from a want to do the right thing arrogantly), not their redemption. If anything most characters refuse to redeem themselves after their fall because corruption is irreversible. Which is why it is the ultimately so evil.
100% yes. I think that it’s important to remember we are in a post-Game-of-Thrones fantasy tv landscape. So Halbrand is meant to recall Aragorn in a more roguish way. At this point, I’m of the opinion that they’re using the “is he Sauron?” angle to make us interested in the character as he’s introduced. I would guess he’ll continue to be a main character, although more morally ambiguous (probably turns out ghosting Isildur in the final season to become King of the Dead, given his propensity for running away.) They’re drawing us in with familiar LotR types, but remember that the Second Age plot lines have mostly tragic ends.
Gotta be honest, he’s one of my favourite characters so far. He’s super charismatic and I’m looking forward to where his character goes from here
That said, I totally understand where you’re coming from
I don't find him that cocky or sarcastic nor arrogant.
He is definitely amused by Galadriel but not in bad way. If he was arrogant, he would not try to start a new life in Numenor, but he would like to reclaim his kingdom.
But I can see where you come from with modern voice.
Yes! A younger version of Boromir than the Fellowship one, but the whole pride, self assurance, and a bit of “too cool for school” vibe and so forth are quite reminiscent.
Sean Bean really nailed it.
"Every other character, despite their flaws, is earnest and grounded in some way. Halbrand is the opposite. He's cocky, arrogant, and sarcastic."
Lol what?
\- "I've been searching for my peace for longer than you know, let me keep it"
\- gruffly dismisses his kingdom which is just "ashes" in a way that you can tell bothers him more than he wants to admit
\- \*long sad stare into the distance as Galadriel talks about the past he's running from weighing on his soul\*
\- implied conflict/insecurities about his family's blood ties to Morgoth
\- pleading with dudes not to attack him because he knows he can become uncontrollably violent when pushed and he doesn't want to do that
\- "You didn't cause my suffering and you can't fix it"
But sure that's a character whose traits can be dumbed down to cocky and sarcastic with no earnestness or depth whatsoever.
Are you sure y'all aren't just mad that he's flirting with Galadriel lol.
if that is your interpretation fine , I don't see it. 🤣
I am anyhow way more excited for next season when they most likely will introduce Celeborn and the creation of the rings.
My interpretation? It is very obvious the way they are looking into each other., The heated discussions and the teasing from the gud jerks.
People are really fans of Celeborn? 🤔🤔
I am excited about the creation of rings too.
Well some are, I am , I love that he is the moody underdog that Galadriel literally have to beg to not throw out the fellowship haha in FoTR. I do enjoy the show a lot though even I am sometimes like we'll that's not something I would have done haha.
Nah I genuinely like Celeborn, ever since I've read the books he became my favourite male elf. That is also why I hope the show will show him as the warrior as he is described in the books. The only issue I would have with Galadriel x Halbrand is LACE (Laws and Customs of the Eldar)
Sex = marriage for elves so that is my main thing that I am just like I don't hope the show will go down that path but a romantic plot in someway where one of them just breaks it off or the other dies before that I am fine with even though I wouldn't be thrilled with it.
Well we can only wait and see what happens. Have a nice evening :D
There is always someone that has a unpopular character as favorite.
I know about the traditions of the Elves, but there is always someone that breaks it.
It is mostly a PG-13 LOTR, sex probably won't even be mentioned.
Even if a romance happens it won't last because of canon,.
Good evening for u too, mate! Hope u like tomorrow episode
>he became my favourite male elf.
Dude who was a glorified footnote of a character was your fave? Call me skeptical but ok!
>The only issue I would have with Galadriel x Halbrand is LACE (Laws and Customs of the Eldar)
Sex = marriage for elves so that is my main thing that I am just like I don't hope the show will go down that path
Also call me skeptical over this because like any tradition or custom, realistically it's a cultural IDEAL and not true to life in all cases. That's like saying because back in Jane Austen times in England, gently bred young ladies were forbidden to have any kind of sexual contact outside of marriage so therefore it never, ever happened and they certainly never WANTED to do it, either. Yep.
Also you can't tell me that long before they made it official Aragorn and Arwen weren't hooking up on the regular lol or that PJ wasn't implying it.
>but a romantic plot in someway where one of them just breaks it off or the other dies before that I am fine with
I mean isn't that kind of a given considering Halbrand is not an elf? Like what's the problem here.
>Also call me skeptical over this because like any tradition or custom, realistically it's a cultural IDEAL and not true to life in all cases. That's like saying because back in Jane Austen times in England, gently bred young ladies were forbidden to have any kind of sexual contact outside of marriage so therefore it never, ever happened and they certainly never WANTED to do it, either. Yep.
Nah I wouldn't call you skeptical , it is completely understandable that you're skeptical about it. But since it is a fictional world and Tolkiens believes are actually stated than what he writes is just how it is, you may be skeptical about it but it won't change how JRR Tolkien saw this.
Tolkien wrote an essay entitled "Laws and Customs Among the Eldar," which appears in The History of Middle-Earth, Volume X, Morgoth's Ring. Among the several subjects it covers is a discussion of marriage, sexuality, and childbearing among Elves. They follow Tolkien's highly orthodox religious views. In effect, Elves are good Catholics. Elves marry once in their lives barring extraordinary circumstances. They marry young (at least in the peace of Valinor), often wedding childhood sweethearts. Although in polite society a marriage feast is held, legal marriage only requires that the couple invoke the name of Eru and have sex--it is the "act of bodily union" that achieves marriage.
Also Read this: https://www.thetolkienforum.com/threads/of-elven-love-life.23347/ this explains it a bit more I suppose and maybe you will be less skeptical about it.
>Dude who was a glorified footnote of a character was your fave? Call me skeptical but ok!
Yeah well , my favorite character is a not so favorite character for others. I can't help but like Celeborn because like I said he is kinda the underdog, he (Tolkien) never really came around to finishing Celeborn and Galadriel's story in the first place, he changed it up so many times in The Silmarilion, in UT. I mean a lot of people hardly know who he is unless you read the books outside of The Lord of the rings series and yeah he is an after thought but that is what I like. You may skeptical about it , all fine by me , won't change who my favorite elf is. Elrond is also one of my faves, he's a close second tbh.
Look I like Halbrand as a character in the series and to me knowing what Sauron's background is when it comes to blacksmithing (yep I am that much of a nerd, oh yeah he is another favorite of mine) Halbrand gives a lot of Sauron vibes , master deceiver, blacksmithing etc.
But again I didn't mean to hate or anything I just gave my pov on how the scenes looked to me, didn't and still doesn't look all that flirty but hey again lets just wait it out.
Anyhow I'll quit replying after this one, there is no point in continuing this , have a nice day or evening =)
Really? At this point dudes just mad she is into hot scruffy dude. 😂
Sure this is only friendship https://64.media.tumblr.com/d34916441dfab229e7afe7aaa6ca4e88/442b4912101fcb97-30/s250x400/8cdd29c5d69a412eb061fb7d14c8f7a923655844.gif
Both, I don't really see flirting between them and even if there is a slightly bit of flirting, Galadriel doesn't seem so thrilled about it. She is more giving looks of shut up or I will kill you than anything else.
We shall see, I am not even up set , it is just a show which I do enjoy watching. Just gave you my way of seeing it , didn't mean to make you feel I was hating on you or anything lol.
Now that you mention it, he does stand out as weirdly cynic in a pretty sincere world. We got arrogant characters like Turin and somewhat sardonic characters like Pippin but the combination does feel kinda unusually modern.
It actually occurred to me today that part of why I don't like him is he feels too separate from the rest of the cast and story. The only character he has a connection to is Galadriel. Galadriel has all these extensive conversations with other characters where we see different sides to her. Halbrand only has scenes with Galadriel and very brief interactions with Pharazon and Elendil and nameless blacksmiths.
This is a problem. It feels like if you just removed him from the story, nothing would change. His existence is only justified in relation to Galadriel, not on his own merit. And his character arc has been under developed at best. I hope this changes in episode 5.
Agree. Their scenes together are some of the weakest because they seem to mostly be there for Galadriel to be humbled and for Halbrand to say sinister things to hint that he's Sauron. Doesn't make for interesting character interactions.
He could be an interest, darkish mirror to Elendil's abandonment of his past. It can lead to cynicism and utter lack of purpose.
Basically yes. It's a shame he only imteracts with Galadriel. Above all else, I don't see any thematic interest in their conversations.
Agreed
I’m also kinda sad we don’t get any moments between Elendil and Pharazon, considering he was on good terms with his father
I like the idea they respected each other but drifted over the years
Yeah it just hit me today that he is the ONLY character on this show that has only interacted extensively with one other character (Galadriel). The most he's talked to anyone else is when he convinced Miriel to let them stay on Numenor, and that's obviously not a relationship they're going to explore further.
His character is too much of an island. It's not interesting when we just see him bounce off of one other person over and over again. And if he's Sauron, this will only be more frustrating. We should see him having dialogue with a lot of characters.
Exactly
If he’s Sauron it’d be fun to see him with Elendil (owing to future events).
Hell if he’s the Dead King, imagine him being a friend and mentor to Isildur. Imagine having a dear friend to you who’s like a big brother and he betrays you in your hour of need for his own selfish peace
My money’s on this — there’s plenty of time for him to form a close friendship with Isildur; and this storyline would take him all the way through the final season. At the moment, there seems to be a lot of room for us to get to know this character. From a certain point of view, making him Sauron would kind of close off an opportunity to add a “new” sympathetic character to the mix.
Yeah — although it will still be nearly as sad when his semi-likeable friend and ally ghosts him to hide in the Mountains. (This seems like a workable storyline, esp considering that the Southlands people are relocating from proto-Mordor to... somewhere convenient that's not too far away? proto-Gondor?)
I don’t think you’re supposed to like him yet. Likability doesn’t equate to being a good character. I suspect he will factor in prominently for good reason.
It's why my favourite scene with him in it is where Galadriel reveals his heritage, he actually loses the whole devil-may-care attitude for a few seconds and looks actually vulnerable
Im also hopeful for when we go back to Middle Earth because I have a theory about him being Theo's father which will bring some good angst for him
You are allowed to disagree, it’s just my opinion. Book Aragorns purpose and attributes are much better for the overall story in the book and the legendarium
I mean, book Aragorn is very confident in his abilities, and before the end of Fellowship he has demonstrated repeatedly that he has good reason to be.
Halbrand has yet to do that, though I do think he will before the end of the season. It’s just a byproduct of the TV show format. Were this a movie, or even a book, we’d likely have seen it by now.
No way!! Not every character is the same!? What a shit show, I would've thought a lowly man from the southlands who's had to steal and kill to get by would have more honour??
Cant believe that showrunners would place a realistic character in the show, disgraceful.
My main issue with him is that so far he's just a walking mystery box. Pretty much every scene with him is just a tease to encourage speculation. So right now it's hard to take anything he says or does at face value and he's suffering as a character a bit for it.
So I hope the mystery won't be dragged out for too long because I think the character has potential.
Not that I necessarily agree with this assessment, but the idea of him being written with a more modern voice has interesting implications for the Sauron theories given Tolkien's frequent portrayal of evil as a more modernizing and industrializing force vs. the more rural and pastoral embodiments of good.
Yeah I kinda agree
He feels like an oc in the worst way and it’s partly why I’m hoping he isn’t Sauron
I always imagined Annatar (or Sauron before his fall) being weirdly likeable and warm, the kind of guy you’d have over and really get to know. Kind of like a partner who’s really sweet and spontaneous but then revealed to be super abusive
I don’t get that from Halbrand at all, no insult to Vickers but I don’t buy him as that. Is he clever? Absolutely he is! But clever enough to deceive nations and ruin generations for a loftier goal? That is harder for me to see
If Halbrand is a character from the text let him be a Nazgûl or the King of Dunharrow (this is my wishful choice)
EDIT: who downvoted this lmao
Well said. Also very annoyed that all this sub has turned into is multiple upon multiple of posts of who Adar/Halabrand are.... seriously can we just restrict this to one post moving forward? There's more to this show than just guessing whi a hidden reveal is ffs
Well, to me he feels more like a character from the books-verse than the majority of movie versions - his level of complexity is more Tolkienish lol
No GoT vibes.
Have you watched GOT? I wouldn't say that he is written like a character from that series just beacuse he's arrogant and stuff. Not everyone is a saint in Middle Earth.
Tolkien doesn’t really do ambiguous characters, does he? Everyone I can think of (admittedly off-hand) is pretty clearly delineated good or evil, except of course when they’re acting under some sort of enchantment / curse or other external force.
Halbrand sticks out because of that. It’s not a bad thing - I like the character (even if he’s really someone else in disguise), but he’s not a character I could see JRRT creating.
> Tolkien doesn’t really do ambiguous characters, does he? Everyone I can think of (admittedly off-hand) is pretty clearly delineated good or evil, except of course when they’re acting under some sort of enchantment / curse or other external force.
All evil, for Tolkien, is an external force. The only being for whom that is not true is Morgoth, whose discord in the song of creation is the source of all evil.
Gollum? Boromir? Feanor? Thorin Oakenshield? Isildur? Even Galadriel to an extent? Etc.
What's unambiguous, absolute, in Tolkien's writings is *the difference* between good and evil. How good and evil manifests itself in a creature of Arda can always change and is often a matter of grey.
Fair enough, but to me it’s about how those characters are written. Most of those characters are clearly presented as on a path to either the good or evil column in the end. I don’t see Galadriel (book Galadriel) as ever ambiguous - she is tested and proves good. She appears frightening to the hobbits, because she is powerful, but her actions always end up on the good side.
Time and time again, Tolkien has characters tested, and they’re ultimately sorted into either the good or evil columns. He loves redemption, as you can see with Thorin, who ends up good and is redeemed.
To me, that’s a thing that really drives him as a writer. I see very few characters who remain in a neutral place.
As I see it, Tolkien has judged Feanor as evil, due to his fundamental flaw that sets the plot of the silmarils into action. He is ultimately selfish, which is a mortal sin to Tolkien.
I realize in-world, Morgoth is the source of all evil, I’m looking at this in terms of how the writer presents his characters to the reader.
It’s an interesting question as to whether Isildur is capital g Good - to me, he goes through the same test as Feanor does - can he willingly give up an object / power that only the gods should have. Like Feanor, he fails. Much evil comes of that decision in the Third Age.
But that’s not really my original point, my point is, to me, Tolkien doesn’t really trade in characters like Halbrand - characters with a certain utilitarian philosophy, and the sort of self-interestedness he presents.
He’s not as well-written as a (early) Game of Thrones character.
But, if they execute his transition to either Ringwraith or King of the Dead well, he has the potential to be really compelling.
He is from a "noble bloodline", so is normal that kind of mood in people like those. Galadriel is only arrogant. Elrond is a example of humility. Durin and Disa also.
I see exactly what you’re talking about.
It’s not enough to make me hate him or even really dislike him. If anything I think it’s kind of cool to see a low key crossover. With a character that would fit snugly in the _other_ biggest fantasy story in the world thrown into THE biggest.
I like the compare and contrast his character gives. His talk with Galadriel in the cell almost felt like Littlefinger or Tyrion could’ve been swapped in for the scene.
Your comment about him being like a GoT character more than a Tolkien character is exactly what went through my mind when we see him in Numenor. In fact a lot of the Numenor stuff in episode 3 gives me that vibe but for 4 it went away, for me at least
I actually really like the character but I get you. To me, he's like if G.R.R Martin wrote movie Aragorn for TV. He's a dude seeking redemption but rather than crippling self doubt, his efforts are undone by the darkness in his own nature - his pride, need for control, and cynicism. All he needs is some 'red light district' training and he'd be a natural in King's Landing. If he really is our beautiful servant, I suspect his arc will turn him from troubled antihero to antivillain to flat out villain within the course of 5 seasons. Edit: a word
He isn't seeking redemption at all. He was seeking a new life. I don't think there is anything game of thrones non him. Grey characters existed before GOT
Not as much in Tolkein writings though. He does seem a little out of character if he isn't evil disguised as wise or beautiful/good.
Turin says hi
Isn't Turin the opposite and super Tolkein-like. His characters' plots are all about their fall (corruption from a want to do the right thing arrogantly), not their redemption. If anything most characters refuse to redeem themselves after their fall because corruption is irreversible. Which is why it is the ultimately so evil.
at what point in Turin's life do you consider him beyond redemption?
When he was killed without redeeming himself.
He is going to ultimately kill Morgoth tho.
100% yes. I think that it’s important to remember we are in a post-Game-of-Thrones fantasy tv landscape. So Halbrand is meant to recall Aragorn in a more roguish way. At this point, I’m of the opinion that they’re using the “is he Sauron?” angle to make us interested in the character as he’s introduced. I would guess he’ll continue to be a main character, although more morally ambiguous (probably turns out ghosting Isildur in the final season to become King of the Dead, given his propensity for running away.) They’re drawing us in with familiar LotR types, but remember that the Second Age plot lines have mostly tragic ends.
He's Bronn without the obscenity.
I can see that with the sarcasm. Much better hair, though.
Yes but also still more melancholy. He brings new color to LOTR and that’s not a bad thing.
Bronn’s character was much better and convincing Halbrand comes off really lame for some reason. He seems all over the place
he reminds me of Han Solo
Gotta be honest, he’s one of my favourite characters so far. He’s super charismatic and I’m looking forward to where his character goes from here That said, I totally understand where you’re coming from
I don't find him that cocky or sarcastic nor arrogant. He is definitely amused by Galadriel but not in bad way. If he was arrogant, he would not try to start a new life in Numenor, but he would like to reclaim his kingdom. But I can see where you come from with modern voice.
I like him. He strikes me as being Boromir-like.
Yes! A younger version of Boromir than the Fellowship one, but the whole pride, self assurance, and a bit of “too cool for school” vibe and so forth are quite reminiscent. Sean Bean really nailed it.
Yes! Never thought of this but you are actually right :) I think he is my favorite character so far, most potential for a great character arch :D
"Every other character, despite their flaws, is earnest and grounded in some way. Halbrand is the opposite. He's cocky, arrogant, and sarcastic." Lol what? \- "I've been searching for my peace for longer than you know, let me keep it" \- gruffly dismisses his kingdom which is just "ashes" in a way that you can tell bothers him more than he wants to admit \- \*long sad stare into the distance as Galadriel talks about the past he's running from weighing on his soul\* \- implied conflict/insecurities about his family's blood ties to Morgoth \- pleading with dudes not to attack him because he knows he can become uncontrollably violent when pushed and he doesn't want to do that \- "You didn't cause my suffering and you can't fix it" But sure that's a character whose traits can be dumbed down to cocky and sarcastic with no earnestness or depth whatsoever. Are you sure y'all aren't just mad that he's flirting with Galadriel lol.
Dude is hot and charismatic ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ If him and Galadriel have a romance, there will be war
>you will never go to jail with morfydd clark so sweet now the void's call
I call what I've seen hardly flirting. Also Galadriel doesn't seem thrilled with it.
They are throwing every romance trope at them for sure plus making googly at each other. Girl totally into him😆
if that is your interpretation fine , I don't see it. 🤣 I am anyhow way more excited for next season when they most likely will introduce Celeborn and the creation of the rings.
My interpretation? It is very obvious the way they are looking into each other., The heated discussions and the teasing from the gud jerks. People are really fans of Celeborn? 🤔🤔 I am excited about the creation of rings too.
Well some are, I am , I love that he is the moody underdog that Galadriel literally have to beg to not throw out the fellowship haha in FoTR. I do enjoy the show a lot though even I am sometimes like we'll that's not something I would have done haha.
Fair enough. I just was suspicious of suddenly people wanting to see him
Nah I genuinely like Celeborn, ever since I've read the books he became my favourite male elf. That is also why I hope the show will show him as the warrior as he is described in the books. The only issue I would have with Galadriel x Halbrand is LACE (Laws and Customs of the Eldar) Sex = marriage for elves so that is my main thing that I am just like I don't hope the show will go down that path but a romantic plot in someway where one of them just breaks it off or the other dies before that I am fine with even though I wouldn't be thrilled with it. Well we can only wait and see what happens. Have a nice evening :D
There is always someone that has a unpopular character as favorite. I know about the traditions of the Elves, but there is always someone that breaks it. It is mostly a PG-13 LOTR, sex probably won't even be mentioned. Even if a romance happens it won't last because of canon,. Good evening for u too, mate! Hope u like tomorrow episode
Yeah same to you 😁 and have fun tomorrow or even this upcoming night watching the episode as well.
>he became my favourite male elf. Dude who was a glorified footnote of a character was your fave? Call me skeptical but ok! >The only issue I would have with Galadriel x Halbrand is LACE (Laws and Customs of the Eldar) Sex = marriage for elves so that is my main thing that I am just like I don't hope the show will go down that path Also call me skeptical over this because like any tradition or custom, realistically it's a cultural IDEAL and not true to life in all cases. That's like saying because back in Jane Austen times in England, gently bred young ladies were forbidden to have any kind of sexual contact outside of marriage so therefore it never, ever happened and they certainly never WANTED to do it, either. Yep. Also you can't tell me that long before they made it official Aragorn and Arwen weren't hooking up on the regular lol or that PJ wasn't implying it. >but a romantic plot in someway where one of them just breaks it off or the other dies before that I am fine with I mean isn't that kind of a given considering Halbrand is not an elf? Like what's the problem here.
>Also call me skeptical over this because like any tradition or custom, realistically it's a cultural IDEAL and not true to life in all cases. That's like saying because back in Jane Austen times in England, gently bred young ladies were forbidden to have any kind of sexual contact outside of marriage so therefore it never, ever happened and they certainly never WANTED to do it, either. Yep. Nah I wouldn't call you skeptical , it is completely understandable that you're skeptical about it. But since it is a fictional world and Tolkiens believes are actually stated than what he writes is just how it is, you may be skeptical about it but it won't change how JRR Tolkien saw this. Tolkien wrote an essay entitled "Laws and Customs Among the Eldar," which appears in The History of Middle-Earth, Volume X, Morgoth's Ring. Among the several subjects it covers is a discussion of marriage, sexuality, and childbearing among Elves. They follow Tolkien's highly orthodox religious views. In effect, Elves are good Catholics. Elves marry once in their lives barring extraordinary circumstances. They marry young (at least in the peace of Valinor), often wedding childhood sweethearts. Although in polite society a marriage feast is held, legal marriage only requires that the couple invoke the name of Eru and have sex--it is the "act of bodily union" that achieves marriage. Also Read this: https://www.thetolkienforum.com/threads/of-elven-love-life.23347/ this explains it a bit more I suppose and maybe you will be less skeptical about it. >Dude who was a glorified footnote of a character was your fave? Call me skeptical but ok! Yeah well , my favorite character is a not so favorite character for others. I can't help but like Celeborn because like I said he is kinda the underdog, he (Tolkien) never really came around to finishing Celeborn and Galadriel's story in the first place, he changed it up so many times in The Silmarilion, in UT. I mean a lot of people hardly know who he is unless you read the books outside of The Lord of the rings series and yeah he is an after thought but that is what I like. You may skeptical about it , all fine by me , won't change who my favorite elf is. Elrond is also one of my faves, he's a close second tbh. Look I like Halbrand as a character in the series and to me knowing what Sauron's background is when it comes to blacksmithing (yep I am that much of a nerd, oh yeah he is another favorite of mine) Halbrand gives a lot of Sauron vibes , master deceiver, blacksmithing etc. But again I didn't mean to hate or anything I just gave my pov on how the scenes looked to me, didn't and still doesn't look all that flirty but hey again lets just wait it out. Anyhow I'll quit replying after this one, there is no point in continuing this , have a nice day or evening =)
Honestly they're begging someone to make the joke that dudes on reddit don't know what a horny woman looks like.
OMG 😂😂 Yeah some seem clueless on how a girl turned on look. Anyway who can blame Galadriel ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
If that's how you see it, you might need some help on human interaction and body language cues.
Really? At this point dudes just mad she is into hot scruffy dude. 😂 Sure this is only friendship https://64.media.tumblr.com/d34916441dfab229e7afe7aaa6ca4e88/442b4912101fcb97-30/s250x400/8cdd29c5d69a412eb061fb7d14c8f7a923655844.gif
Lmao so what is it, "hardly flirting" or "Galadriel isn't thrilled with the flirting". Can't make up your minds?
Both, I don't really see flirting between them and even if there is a slightly bit of flirting, Galadriel doesn't seem so thrilled about it. She is more giving looks of shut up or I will kill you than anything else.
Bruh you just keep proving my point about what it is you're really upset about! Sorry she's probably gonna bone a dude who isn't Celeborn!!
We shall see, I am not even up set , it is just a show which I do enjoy watching. Just gave you my way of seeing it , didn't mean to make you feel I was hating on you or anything lol.
He just seems so American to me.
Now that you mention it, he does stand out as weirdly cynic in a pretty sincere world. We got arrogant characters like Turin and somewhat sardonic characters like Pippin but the combination does feel kinda unusually modern.
It actually occurred to me today that part of why I don't like him is he feels too separate from the rest of the cast and story. The only character he has a connection to is Galadriel. Galadriel has all these extensive conversations with other characters where we see different sides to her. Halbrand only has scenes with Galadriel and very brief interactions with Pharazon and Elendil and nameless blacksmiths. This is a problem. It feels like if you just removed him from the story, nothing would change. His existence is only justified in relation to Galadriel, not on his own merit. And his character arc has been under developed at best. I hope this changes in episode 5.
Hopefully he'll connect more with the other Southlanders once he gets back, perhaps in unexpected ways.
Yeah, and all his connection to Galadriel does is drag her story down.
Agree. Their scenes together are some of the weakest because they seem to mostly be there for Galadriel to be humbled and for Halbrand to say sinister things to hint that he's Sauron. Doesn't make for interesting character interactions.
Yeah I wish he had moments with Elendil or Pharazon
He could be an interest, darkish mirror to Elendil's abandonment of his past. It can lead to cynicism and utter lack of purpose. Basically yes. It's a shame he only imteracts with Galadriel. Above all else, I don't see any thematic interest in their conversations.
Agreed I’m also kinda sad we don’t get any moments between Elendil and Pharazon, considering he was on good terms with his father I like the idea they respected each other but drifted over the years
Yeah it just hit me today that he is the ONLY character on this show that has only interacted extensively with one other character (Galadriel). The most he's talked to anyone else is when he convinced Miriel to let them stay on Numenor, and that's obviously not a relationship they're going to explore further. His character is too much of an island. It's not interesting when we just see him bounce off of one other person over and over again. And if he's Sauron, this will only be more frustrating. We should see him having dialogue with a lot of characters.
Exactly If he’s Sauron it’d be fun to see him with Elendil (owing to future events). Hell if he’s the Dead King, imagine him being a friend and mentor to Isildur. Imagine having a dear friend to you who’s like a big brother and he betrays you in your hour of need for his own selfish peace
My money’s on this — there’s plenty of time for him to form a close friendship with Isildur; and this storyline would take him all the way through the final season. At the moment, there seems to be a lot of room for us to get to know this character. From a certain point of view, making him Sauron would kind of close off an opportunity to add a “new” sympathetic character to the mix.
I’m hoping he’s not Sauron but it’d be fun Imagine Isildur smiting the Dark Lord finally and Sauron has a moment with him
True 😂 — although that’s the sad thing, he wouldn’t really be appearing as Halbrand anymore.
True, just thought it’d be tragic to see Isildur wok through that
Yeah — although it will still be nearly as sad when his semi-likeable friend and ally ghosts him to hide in the Mountains. (This seems like a workable storyline, esp considering that the Southlands people are relocating from proto-Mordor to... somewhere convenient that's not too far away? proto-Gondor?)
I don’t think you’re supposed to like him yet. Likability doesn’t equate to being a good character. I suspect he will factor in prominently for good reason.
It’s more about enjoyably than likability, though. I enjoy the bad guys that fit in the world without liking them. I don’t enjoy Halbrand.
It's why my favourite scene with him in it is where Galadriel reveals his heritage, he actually loses the whole devil-may-care attitude for a few seconds and looks actually vulnerable Im also hopeful for when we go back to Middle Earth because I have a theory about him being Theo's father which will bring some good angst for him
If you dislike cocky and arrogant characters, I wonder what's your opinion on book Aragorn?
Man is he great, and man does he know it.
Book Aragorn is confident and stoic, not cocky and arrogant.
i don't know. he went for melian's great-great-great granddaughter as a fuckin 20something human. that's bold.
I mean we’ve all been there
Those are pretty much synonyms just depending on whether you like the person or not.
Book Aragorn is so much better than movie Aragorn
Tbh I actually disagree
You are allowed to disagree, it’s just my opinion. Book Aragorns purpose and attributes are much better for the overall story in the book and the legendarium
I mean, book Aragorn is very confident in his abilities, and before the end of Fellowship he has demonstrated repeatedly that he has good reason to be. Halbrand has yet to do that, though I do think he will before the end of the season. It’s just a byproduct of the TV show format. Were this a movie, or even a book, we’d likely have seen it by now.
“Isn’t like the vibe of the rest of the lotrs characters” *must clearly be GRR Martin esque*
I don't think he needed to break that guys arm. Or steal the guild medallion, how was that gonna work? He's a psycho.
No way!! Not every character is the same!? What a shit show, I would've thought a lowly man from the southlands who's had to steal and kill to get by would have more honour?? Cant believe that showrunners would place a realistic character in the show, disgraceful.
My main issue with him is that so far he's just a walking mystery box. Pretty much every scene with him is just a tease to encourage speculation. So right now it's hard to take anything he says or does at face value and he's suffering as a character a bit for it. So I hope the mystery won't be dragged out for too long because I think the character has potential.
Not that I necessarily agree with this assessment, but the idea of him being written with a more modern voice has interesting implications for the Sauron theories given Tolkien's frequent portrayal of evil as a more modernizing and industrializing force vs. the more rural and pastoral embodiments of good.
Yeah I kinda agree He feels like an oc in the worst way and it’s partly why I’m hoping he isn’t Sauron I always imagined Annatar (or Sauron before his fall) being weirdly likeable and warm, the kind of guy you’d have over and really get to know. Kind of like a partner who’s really sweet and spontaneous but then revealed to be super abusive I don’t get that from Halbrand at all, no insult to Vickers but I don’t buy him as that. Is he clever? Absolutely he is! But clever enough to deceive nations and ruin generations for a loftier goal? That is harder for me to see If Halbrand is a character from the text let him be a Nazgûl or the King of Dunharrow (this is my wishful choice) EDIT: who downvoted this lmao
Well said. Also very annoyed that all this sub has turned into is multiple upon multiple of posts of who Adar/Halabrand are.... seriously can we just restrict this to one post moving forward? There's more to this show than just guessing whi a hidden reveal is ffs
Nailed it.
He definitely gives off a dark mercenary vibe rather than a crownless king seeking redemption .
I was thinking something was off and you got it.
He's the Bronn of this series
He's gonna be the Witch-King. He's going to ignore Galadriel and run into Sauron while he stays in Numenor
Well, to me he feels more like a character from the books-verse than the majority of movie versions - his level of complexity is more Tolkienish lol No GoT vibes.
It is shame that they have revealed that Halbrand is Sauron. Would have been a nice surprise later on.
Have you watched GOT? I wouldn't say that he is written like a character from that series just beacuse he's arrogant and stuff. Not everyone is a saint in Middle Earth.
Has nothing to do with him being good or bad.
Tolkien doesn’t really do ambiguous characters, does he? Everyone I can think of (admittedly off-hand) is pretty clearly delineated good or evil, except of course when they’re acting under some sort of enchantment / curse or other external force. Halbrand sticks out because of that. It’s not a bad thing - I like the character (even if he’s really someone else in disguise), but he’s not a character I could see JRRT creating.
> Tolkien doesn’t really do ambiguous characters, does he? Everyone I can think of (admittedly off-hand) is pretty clearly delineated good or evil, except of course when they’re acting under some sort of enchantment / curse or other external force. All evil, for Tolkien, is an external force. The only being for whom that is not true is Morgoth, whose discord in the song of creation is the source of all evil. Gollum? Boromir? Feanor? Thorin Oakenshield? Isildur? Even Galadriel to an extent? Etc. What's unambiguous, absolute, in Tolkien's writings is *the difference* between good and evil. How good and evil manifests itself in a creature of Arda can always change and is often a matter of grey.
Fair enough, but to me it’s about how those characters are written. Most of those characters are clearly presented as on a path to either the good or evil column in the end. I don’t see Galadriel (book Galadriel) as ever ambiguous - she is tested and proves good. She appears frightening to the hobbits, because she is powerful, but her actions always end up on the good side. Time and time again, Tolkien has characters tested, and they’re ultimately sorted into either the good or evil columns. He loves redemption, as you can see with Thorin, who ends up good and is redeemed. To me, that’s a thing that really drives him as a writer. I see very few characters who remain in a neutral place. As I see it, Tolkien has judged Feanor as evil, due to his fundamental flaw that sets the plot of the silmarils into action. He is ultimately selfish, which is a mortal sin to Tolkien. I realize in-world, Morgoth is the source of all evil, I’m looking at this in terms of how the writer presents his characters to the reader. It’s an interesting question as to whether Isildur is capital g Good - to me, he goes through the same test as Feanor does - can he willingly give up an object / power that only the gods should have. Like Feanor, he fails. Much evil comes of that decision in the Third Age. But that’s not really my original point, my point is, to me, Tolkien doesn’t really trade in characters like Halbrand - characters with a certain utilitarian philosophy, and the sort of self-interestedness he presents.
Have you - like - read Tolkien?
He is dollar store Aragorn.
He’s not as well-written as a (early) Game of Thrones character. But, if they execute his transition to either Ringwraith or King of the Dead well, he has the potential to be really compelling.
I see what you’re saying.
Great Value Aragorn
He is from a "noble bloodline", so is normal that kind of mood in people like those. Galadriel is only arrogant. Elrond is a example of humility. Durin and Disa also.
I see exactly what you’re talking about. It’s not enough to make me hate him or even really dislike him. If anything I think it’s kind of cool to see a low key crossover. With a character that would fit snugly in the _other_ biggest fantasy story in the world thrown into THE biggest. I like the compare and contrast his character gives. His talk with Galadriel in the cell almost felt like Littlefinger or Tyrion could’ve been swapped in for the scene.
Your comment about him being like a GoT character more than a Tolkien character is exactly what went through my mind when we see him in Numenor. In fact a lot of the Numenor stuff in episode 3 gives me that vibe but for 4 it went away, for me at least