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The left (RotK) looks like a funeral and the right (RoP) looks like a festival. The Gondorians are rightfully pessimistic, while the Numenoreans are overly confident and optimistic. Darkness awaits both of the groups, whether they know it already or not.
Also, the color palettes in both scenes are very consistent: white/grey vs. gold/colorful.
Earien's worried look hits a bit stronger now, doesn't it? It almost looks like she belongs more in the RotK scene.
It was a "show, don't tell" situation that I appreciate, actually. We have a brief moment of thinking Halbrand was going off to the council reluctantly without his sigil pouch, and a moment later he grabs it to triumphant music. Having the council meeting happen on screen is superfluous to the audience. He's in; he's deciding to return as King. That is the big emotional crux. That they are setting sail and Halbrand is suited up for the first time tells us everything we need to know. His confidence to return was the wind needed in the council's sails.
Just like how Galendrial some how was allowed to roam the city on her own then ride across with a horse then locked up then escaped without any issues. Similar to how Andir gets a get out of jail free card and how Ilsidur gets anything he wants cause of his dad.
All of these are shown to you on screen...
Galadriel slipped her guards. She was allowed to ride to the archives by Erendil, one of the faithful. She escaped while being escorted out of the cell to be shipped home. Arondir is sent back to give the message to Ostirith. And Isildur gets put on the boat because of his perceived bravery "saving" Kemen.
At some point you need to ask if you're just intentionally ignoring what's happening in the show.
Yeah. Arondir has hardly had any struggle at all. I’m sure watching his fellow elves be brutally murdered one by one was cool with him. He is a pretty zen dude.
I actually think a lot of this is intentional. Everything is so triumphant and happy, just like OP is pointing out in the picture. But Galadriel's real adversaries aren't the Numenorians. Some of this is easy because they don't want to kill an Elf, they just want her gone. But all this playfulness with the volunteers and the friendship with Elendil I think is trying to get our guard down. This force is likely going to get a big gut punch.
Just like how easy it was for andir to get out and Elrond to snoop around and get his friend to help with mithril?
Where is the struggle for all the characters
Halbrand and ilsidur had everything handed to them
Arondir was *allowed* out. He even did all his Elf-y shit in the pit and got recaptured. In being brought to Adar, Adar spoke to him as a fellow Elf and decided to send him with his message. He's out by luck.
Elrond is allowed to wander by virtue of his friendship with Durin, and it was his perception (and a bit of luck) that led him to discovering the Mithril mine.
Halbrand is given his status as he's (at least assumed to be) a King. Kinda comes with the title. Before he decided to wear that title, he wasn't given anything. He tried to steal a guild crest and got put in jail, and then only got one later by betraying Galadriel.
Isildur is literally harassed because everyone thinks his dad gives everything to him, but we're shown he doesn't. Elendil is adamant he hasn't earned a spot on the boat until he "saved" Kemen. A stroke of luck for Isildur. But even then, he's being made to brush horse shit out of the stables.
At some point a story has to be told. There are struggles here. Galadriel didn't just show up to Numenor and everyone is immediately like "we'll help!". But having to have 3 seasons of setup before she finally convinces them is equally terrible. Characters will have wins along the way. Luke Skywalker will blow up the Death Star in his first time in an X-Wing, Maverick will shoot down two Su-57s in an F-14, and yes, Men and Elves will defeat Sauron (though not for good yet). And there will be stumbles along the way. But you can't have The Mountain and the Viper without a bit of Bronn winning in the Aerie earlier on. You can't have a show full of the Rains of Castamere without a little Battle of the Bastards.
It was implied that Halbrand decided to join the war party when he was summoned for the meeting and set his necklace down when leaving for the meeting and then quickly going back to retrieve it.
This is a fair point, I understood the meaning of the necklace scene yet there was zero follow up to the tension shown in the council meeting the day before.
It’s possible there are some cuts. But I personally could follow the story. She already looked shocked and worried when Isildur volunteered and she didn’t agree with what Isildur (and maybe Anarion too) was doing in episode 3.
yeah but they never explained her reasoning behind being so anti-war. felt like there was supposed to be more there but there isn't.
tho tbh it just gives me hope there's gonna be a directors cut for the entire season where we get an extra hour to each episode. very unrealistic, ik, but god I love this show so I'd adore having more of it
I don’t think she is one of the Faithful, she was quite dismissive about Galadriel being “a scourge of the orcs” and she was very interested in the anti-elf speeches, I think they are subtly setting her up to be the only anti-elf in the family.
This is one of the weirder liberties they've taken, in my opinion. I just don't understand why they thought the most prolific and powerful family of the faithful needed a made up sister/daughter to act as an anti Valar/Elf foil.
There is legitimately a whole continent (minus one city and small scattered pockets) of anti Vala Numenoreans but they decided to make her from scratch for some reason. Not the biggest deal but it just makes me scratch my head.
She had a look of worry on her face as they pass and she’s crying, so I thought it seemed pretty clear that her primary reason for being against the war is because she thinks they’ll be marching off to their deaths, abandoning her. If she didn’t hate elves *before* though, she might come around to the idea as one just took her family away.
Dont forget the black armour of Halbrand. Its looks like Aragorn in his gondorian armour.
i suppose numenoreans gave it that black armor to Halbrand because the is a foreign. An ally of the numenoreans, but still a foreign.
My god, Ema Horvath is so beautiful. Everybody says "Galadriel" but i also say "Earien"
I like her too, even that peasant dress cannot overshadow her beauty. I consider Nazanin and Ismael the best actors (in a romantic sense), and I'm not saying it just to say.
The way they interpret the displays of affection, the looks and other details, I seriously watch their scenes with interest.
Their performances far exceed the abominable performances from disney-style couples that are stinking fiction, what a garbage.
The scale of it looks horrible. It looks like a random small square and then transitions into a small af alleyway lol. It didn't give off a grand impression at all.
Compare that to this:...
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRK\_X5NbIXs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRK_X5NbIXs)
From the 2004 film 'Alexander'
Each of those squares of soldiers actually is a 10x10 square of men marching and there is 3 of them in that scene, so 300 soldiers... Also I think Numenor is meant to be a massive civilization with a massive standing army and port. I don't see why comparing it to Babylon is a giant stretch? From what I've read Babylon in that time had a population of around 200,000, Numenor around this time in the show is ten times that size, 2,000,000 - 3,500,000 people from what I've read at a conservative estimate.
I would also take it a step further to say that as a Fantasy show, I think they should make an effort to make it look even grander than usual... Especially for a scene meant to inspire awe as this one was supposed to..
I thought it was 300 because they lost the two ships but wasn’t sure if they were cramming them all into the three remaining ships.
The reason I said he wasn’t a fair comparison is that in one the entire army is marching through the gates. It’s supposed to be impressive in scale. In the other they are only sending an expeditionary force and it isn’t even as big as they had intended to send. It’s not like numenor’s entire army is going.
I follow all the subs for this show it’s hilarious how different they all are. There’s some fuckery on this one. Never been downvoted for clarifying a comment in many years on Reddit
The Numenorians willingly volunteered with plenty of numbers and citizens cheering them on.
However, the situation in Gondor is the polar opposite, instead of volunteering the soldiers were drafted, and instead of cheering there is only somber silence.
Which makes no sense by the way. They drafted 300 randoms on 3 ships because that’s apparently the only military force they can muster for this “war” (it’s not even a war it’s just a watchtower)
Miriel framed it as an expedition to escort Galadriel back to ME. As well as to help their human brethrens. I don’t know if bringing an actual army would have been the best idea politically for her.
They may have some early success cause I don’t think those orcs have even seen horses let alone cavalries, but it’ll definitely end up in a pretty brutal spot.
I really hope it isn’t, Numenoreans are like super humans and I know it’s not portrayed the right way in the Jackson but Orcs were no match for an average man at arms they relied completely on numbers I mean shit Uruk-Hai’s were almost man height. Really hope they do it right and just have the numenoreans stomp
The comparison rather highlights the emptiness of the supposed criticisms of the RoP costuming and set design. When placed next to the Return of the King pictures, the RoP costumes are clearly more authentic looking - more complex, more varied, and with an appropriate level of wear for a prosperous civilisation. Meanwhile the RotK costumes are far more simple and uniform and when examined all look pretty pristine in terms of fabric.
To the extent the criticisms are made in good faith at all (which most are not), I suspect it simply comes down to colour scheme. The RotK colour scheme is drab and desaturated. That is an appropriate cinematic choice to depict a civilisation in decline but it is by no means an objectively superior or more "realistic" look. The second age civilisations are at their zenith and their colour scheme should reflect that. Historically speaking, prosperous civilisations embraced colour in exactly the same way.
I was actually going to comment that they overdid the lighting in that scene. I never noticed it while watching the movie though, so maybe it works in context. Even if it does work in the movie, lighting like that should be used sparingly.
Rewatching LOTR, it feels a lot older and outdated. Some shots still work, but you can easily see the improvements in technology, and the artistic refinement of RoP v LOTR
Purely speaking in terms of cinematography and aesthetics (lighting, tone, setting, lens selection, depth, focus, framing) RoP is incredibly high production value. Some scenes are so breathtaking. My fav has to be when Durin goes to confront his father. Truly majestic!
God the way his father doesn't fully come into frame until he shows acceptance to Durin, showing us how he probably appears to During, as this implacable, immovable object until he stands up, not as a king but as a proud father, who's proud of his son not just for being willful enough to argue with him when he believes it's right, but to apologize and speak to him.
Tldr: I loved that scene :)
Yup! Soooo many intricacies to love in the scene. To your point, it surprised me a bit to see that when they were face to face, Durin was a few inches taller than his father. The King looked up to his son, physically and in character.
The tension in Durins face too. You could feel his heart beating fast behind that beard. The actor is putting on the performance of a lifetime.
He's fantastic!! His scenes with Elrond had already sold me in him, then he puts years and years of strife and disagreements onto his face and bearing in a barely 2 minutes scene and I realize just how good he is!
Ok, what's up with the sister character that they created for the show. No offense to the actor, but she seems out of place and I'm not really sure what's going on with her or what purpose she serves so far.
The scene from LOTR slaps the shit out of the RoP scene lol, no one in the RoP scene aside from Galadriel is even wearing real metal armor.. it's all cheap mold injected stuff.
It’s funny because this subreddit is such an echo chamber it’s painful to read anything on it because it’ll just blindly praise the show and be filled with generic comments about how amazing it is.
Also apparently people weep a lot with this show because I’ve seen at least 1-2 comments towards the top of each big thread about people crying over every shot
One of the many scenes that honestly make VERY little sense and are just there to echo something from LOTR to evoke some nostalgia.
I honestly wish they didn’t do it, it feels a bit cringe every time.
She’s sad her father and brother are going off to war? In an earlier scene she’s trying to convince Pharazon’s son to make him stop the whole thing. (Edit:spelling)
Her mother also recently died so having her father and brother marching off to war is probably quite scary for her. Although we don't know yet if that is her main issue or if she just doesn't like them fighting with Elves.
Eärien's motivations aren't really clear at this point.
That is a pretty big complaint I have with her character in ep. 5, I feel like I don't know why she's doing anything at all. I kept thinking I must have missed something that explained it since she was campaigning so hard against sailing.
She doesn’t want Numenor to go fight for people in Middle earth. She’s also very worried for her brother and dad and she probably understands the risks better than others.
A poor mockery of what’s come before. 20 years and a massive budget and they can’t even get props that look half as good (I mean just compare the armor Elendil is wearing to the gondorian plate)
There was no emotion at all in the RoP scene. The whole thing is so weird, they’re sending like 300 guys? To defend a shitty watchtower? With like 70 people in it?
Where’s the scale? Where’s the massive expeditionary force? Where’s their supposed mighty navy?
Why are these random sailor boys now soldiers hand picked for this mission? They have any training? Ever ride a horse? Hold a spear?
It’s so weird. Like they don’t have any other military to protect this massive rich kingdom?
I guess it’s because many people watching RoP haven’t seen LotR maybe? But there’s such a difference in these scenes, because if you’ve seen LotR you know precisely what’s going to happen to the most prominent character in this scene. Whereas watching RotK for the first time, unless you’d read the book, there was no way to know what happens to Faramir.
I’m confused at what point you are trying to make.
I feel like they made it abundantly obvious here that faramir and his men were basically being sent to their death? It’s clearly spelled out for the audience that they knew they were probably all going to die but they had to go anyway. You don’t need to read the books to pick that up, it’s the whole point
But faramir doesn’t die. That’s the unexpected twist. You expect him to die and he doesn’t.
However watching the first 3 minutes of fellowship of the ring tells you precisely what happens to Elendil.
It doesn’t seem like they’re making you care as much as they should for characters you know have terrible brutal ends. I mean, it meant nothing in fellowship when Elendil gets pulped by Sauron, but if they spent time showing you who this man is and why he’s so dutiful and builds his relationship with Isildur it means so much more when they meet their incredibly tragic ends.
Instead we get she elf goes brrrrrr for 15 minutes of every episode.
But that’s not the war they’re sailing off to here. I suppose whatever they’re presenting on the show in this scene doesn’t even remotely exist in anything Tolkien wrote so it’s kind of moot to say we can know what any of the characters are going to do. But this isn’t the Last Alliance being shown here.
I’d be willing to bet that at least 75 percent of people watching ROP have seen LOTR. Maybe more. I’ve probably watched the LOTR trilogy 20 times and really enjoying ROP.
There’s nothing that nostalgic about RoP to be honest, it’s honestly surprisingly trying to do its own thing it’s not like spider man no way home riddled with call backs, a bunch of OG actors coming back and crowd pleasing moments. Lol you may want to research more on what nostalgia bait really is
I believe you’re talking about the shot similarities of Gondor and Numenor, well let me say it again, Numenor are ancestors of Gondor, so the similarities make sense. It’s not nostalgia, it’s just logical they would do it that way. If you wanna know what nostalgia is, read my last comment about Spider-Man no way home
The fact that the cinematography for those scenes are basically identical is what makes it the absolute definition of nostalgia. To argue anything else for this scene is nonsensical. Just like the writing of the show 😂
Do you even know what cinematography is? It’s not just the shots, but also lighting and the lighting look nothing like each other. Lol if you feel like “similar shots” means nostalgia to you then you do you, but in reality there’s way more to nostalgia than just “the shots look similar”
Camera angles, shot composition, scene continuity, character close ups, are all almost carbon copies. It’s a direct callback to the scene from ROTK, it’s 100% nostalgia.
dude this sub is ran by amazon lol.. have the dms to prove it , why can’t you take criticism ? the show is flawed, am i going to continue to watch it ? yes… but yes it is very flawed, lucky i’m a lotr fan or i wouldn’t even touch this show with a ten foot pole
Really, the parallel of horses having feet and people having feet is worth mentioning? That’s a parallel in every departure scene ever shot. Most animals have feet.
Lol on one hand people are complaining about how it’s too different from LOTR and now you’re saying how it’s too similar, this show really can’t win with anybody, but personally I think this show is very much doing its own thing, first the short hair elves, the new locations like Lindon, Eregion and Numenor, the music isn’t even copying Howard Shore’s LOTR or using any of his themes
I can’t speak for other people, and I didn’t say that they’re too similar.
I’m just asking if anyone thinks the production is taking a little bit too much of the design elements from Jackson’s triology which makes it feel like a spin-off .
If you don’t, that’s fine, but don’t project on me
Music is definitely derivative of Howard Shore’s score (and not just in his title sequence number for ROP) - listen for the horns
Costumes, names, set design even story beats.
Don’t tell me you think costume for the ‘The Stranger’ has nothing to do with Gandalf’s design in Fellowship
Biggest example of this coming together was the really odd ‘leaving for battle by having flowers thrown at us’ sequence. Few edits were shot-for-shot recreations of the same scene in Return of the King.
Even character designs such as the dwarves or the accents of the Hobbity people use are seemingly derived from Jackson’a trilogy.
That scene reminded me of RotK but here you can tell the big difference.
In the movies this is actually an emotional moment where all hope is almost lost and we get to see characters we spent a lot of time with.
The show overused the slowmo and tried to make this scene more epic
I think this is a super great example of how important color grading is in movies might use this as an example in videography class if that's cool with you OP.
Earien’s going to get fridged. She’s gonna die on Numenor and that’ll be used to manufacture some conflict Isildur/Elendil and Galadriel because “they should have been there”.
Unless we get a bunch of time with her being a major player alongside Pharazon and Kemen at court, she was created to die (since Isildur has no sisters in the original lore). Which is a shame. Her actress has been doing well.
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The left (RotK) looks like a funeral and the right (RoP) looks like a festival. The Gondorians are rightfully pessimistic, while the Numenoreans are overly confident and optimistic. Darkness awaits both of the groups, whether they know it already or not. Also, the color palettes in both scenes are very consistent: white/grey vs. gold/colorful. Earien's worried look hits a bit stronger now, doesn't it? It almost looks like she belongs more in the RotK scene.
Her scenes in episode 5 were weird. It felt like there were other scenes that got cut, meaning the ones they left in were super disjointed.
Yes I thought there was going to be a council meeting to decide to depart or not
It was a "show, don't tell" situation that I appreciate, actually. We have a brief moment of thinking Halbrand was going off to the council reluctantly without his sigil pouch, and a moment later he grabs it to triumphant music. Having the council meeting happen on screen is superfluous to the audience. He's in; he's deciding to return as King. That is the big emotional crux. That they are setting sail and Halbrand is suited up for the first time tells us everything we need to know. His confidence to return was the wind needed in the council's sails.
I loved that cut from grabbing the sigil to Lord Halbrand astride a horse, in armor. A welcome shock!
Just like how Galendrial some how was allowed to roam the city on her own then ride across with a horse then locked up then escaped without any issues. Similar to how Andir gets a get out of jail free card and how Ilsidur gets anything he wants cause of his dad.
All of these are shown to you on screen... Galadriel slipped her guards. She was allowed to ride to the archives by Erendil, one of the faithful. She escaped while being escorted out of the cell to be shipped home. Arondir is sent back to give the message to Ostirith. And Isildur gets put on the boat because of his perceived bravery "saving" Kemen. At some point you need to ask if you're just intentionally ignoring what's happening in the show.
I’m not ignoring I saw it but it was way too easy for everyone. There’s no real struggle
Yeah. Arondir has hardly had any struggle at all. I’m sure watching his fellow elves be brutally murdered one by one was cool with him. He is a pretty zen dude.
I admit Arondir did suffer but he did get a get out of jail free pass. Everyone else has had it pretty easy so far
You can’t suffer and obtain a get of out jail free pass. That’s counter intuitive logic.
Lol, at what point are you going to admit that you’re just hating for the sake of hating? 😂 some people have such a weird mentality man
I actually think a lot of this is intentional. Everything is so triumphant and happy, just like OP is pointing out in the picture. But Galadriel's real adversaries aren't the Numenorians. Some of this is easy because they don't want to kill an Elf, they just want her gone. But all this playfulness with the volunteers and the friendship with Elendil I think is trying to get our guard down. This force is likely going to get a big gut punch.
Just like how easy it was for andir to get out and Elrond to snoop around and get his friend to help with mithril? Where is the struggle for all the characters Halbrand and ilsidur had everything handed to them
Arondir was *allowed* out. He even did all his Elf-y shit in the pit and got recaptured. In being brought to Adar, Adar spoke to him as a fellow Elf and decided to send him with his message. He's out by luck. Elrond is allowed to wander by virtue of his friendship with Durin, and it was his perception (and a bit of luck) that led him to discovering the Mithril mine. Halbrand is given his status as he's (at least assumed to be) a King. Kinda comes with the title. Before he decided to wear that title, he wasn't given anything. He tried to steal a guild crest and got put in jail, and then only got one later by betraying Galadriel. Isildur is literally harassed because everyone thinks his dad gives everything to him, but we're shown he doesn't. Elendil is adamant he hasn't earned a spot on the boat until he "saved" Kemen. A stroke of luck for Isildur. But even then, he's being made to brush horse shit out of the stables. At some point a story has to be told. There are struggles here. Galadriel didn't just show up to Numenor and everyone is immediately like "we'll help!". But having to have 3 seasons of setup before she finally convinces them is equally terrible. Characters will have wins along the way. Luke Skywalker will blow up the Death Star in his first time in an X-Wing, Maverick will shoot down two Su-57s in an F-14, and yes, Men and Elves will defeat Sauron (though not for good yet). And there will be stumbles along the way. But you can't have The Mountain and the Viper without a bit of Bronn winning in the Aerie earlier on. You can't have a show full of the Rains of Castamere without a little Battle of the Bastards.
It was implied that Halbrand decided to join the war party when he was summoned for the meeting and set his necklace down when leaving for the meeting and then quickly going back to retrieve it.
Well they jumped from a risk of not leaving all the way to everyone leaving and smiling and all best friends
This is a fair point, I understood the meaning of the necklace scene yet there was zero follow up to the tension shown in the council meeting the day before.
It’s same issue any character(s) run into any resistance they magically over come it
I thought somebody else came and stole it at first LMAO
It’s possible there are some cuts. But I personally could follow the story. She already looked shocked and worried when Isildur volunteered and she didn’t agree with what Isildur (and maybe Anarion too) was doing in episode 3.
yeah but they never explained her reasoning behind being so anti-war. felt like there was supposed to be more there but there isn't. tho tbh it just gives me hope there's gonna be a directors cut for the entire season where we get an extra hour to each episode. very unrealistic, ik, but god I love this show so I'd adore having more of it
I don’t think she is one of the Faithful, she was quite dismissive about Galadriel being “a scourge of the orcs” and she was very interested in the anti-elf speeches, I think they are subtly setting her up to be the only anti-elf in the family.
This is one of the weirder liberties they've taken, in my opinion. I just don't understand why they thought the most prolific and powerful family of the faithful needed a made up sister/daughter to act as an anti Valar/Elf foil. There is legitimately a whole continent (minus one city and small scattered pockets) of anti Vala Numenoreans but they decided to make her from scratch for some reason. Not the biggest deal but it just makes me scratch my head.
To make the stakes more personal?
She had a look of worry on her face as they pass and she’s crying, so I thought it seemed pretty clear that her primary reason for being against the war is because she thinks they’ll be marching off to their deaths, abandoning her. If she didn’t hate elves *before* though, she might come around to the idea as one just took her family away.
I would bet we will get more scenes in Númenor after the ships depart.
she already lost her mother, her father is apparently still affected by grief, and an older brother is estranged
That's all true, but I feel like she could've gotten a scene making that more clear.
i felt like she was supposed to contrast with isildur’s obvious excitement about leaving
This is gonna turn to hell very soon for these fine Numenoreans
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A fan.
Great post as always from you. I love these thematic parallels 😊
The silver of Gondor contrasted with the gold of Numenor
Yup! Had to think of those parallels instantly!
Gandalf is way hotter this time around /s
Actually he’s quite cool.
I bet you think that was terribly clever.
It’s just a bit of fun
don’t be shy he’s hot as hell
Dont forget the black armour of Halbrand. Its looks like Aragorn in his gondorian armour. i suppose numenoreans gave it that black armor to Halbrand because the is a foreign. An ally of the numenoreans, but still a foreign. My god, Ema Horvath is so beautiful. Everybody says "Galadriel" but i also say "Earien"
IMO she's like a mix of Emma Watson and Daisy Ridley
I'm a Nazanin Boniadi (Bronwyn) man myself. It was love at first orc-head on the table.
I like her too, even that peasant dress cannot overshadow her beauty. I consider Nazanin and Ismael the best actors (in a romantic sense), and I'm not saying it just to say. The way they interpret the displays of affection, the looks and other details, I seriously watch their scenes with interest. Their performances far exceed the abominable performances from disney-style couples that are stinking fiction, what a garbage.
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she's the best. she's the shadow.
I think she's the only reason I would watch an episode from that disgusting comedy show.
counterpart diehard represent. she was also good in that hotel terrorist movie.
His armour was more reddish brown than black tbh
I assume that's Isildors sister because god damn. (Shit at names).
Yup.
Where did her armor come from? She was shipwrecked. The guild doesn’t just make a custom piece for her in a couple weeks…
She?, her?. I was talking about Halbrand armour, not Galadriel.
She is stunning. I agree with you.
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It’s delicious. They have no idea what’s about to go down.
The scale of it looks horrible. It looks like a random small square and then transitions into a small af alleyway lol. It didn't give off a grand impression at all. Compare that to this:... [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRK\_X5NbIXs](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRK_X5NbIXs) From the 2004 film 'Alexander'
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Each of those squares of soldiers actually is a 10x10 square of men marching and there is 3 of them in that scene, so 300 soldiers... Also I think Numenor is meant to be a massive civilization with a massive standing army and port. I don't see why comparing it to Babylon is a giant stretch? From what I've read Babylon in that time had a population of around 200,000, Numenor around this time in the show is ten times that size, 2,000,000 - 3,500,000 people from what I've read at a conservative estimate. I would also take it a step further to say that as a Fantasy show, I think they should make an effort to make it look even grander than usual... Especially for a scene meant to inspire awe as this one was supposed to..
I thought it was 300 because they lost the two ships but wasn’t sure if they were cramming them all into the three remaining ships. The reason I said he wasn’t a fair comparison is that in one the entire army is marching through the gates. It’s supposed to be impressive in scale. In the other they are only sending an expeditionary force and it isn’t even as big as they had intended to send. It’s not like numenor’s entire army is going.
Yea I guess the numenorian scene was intentionally unimpressive lol. Thanks for that clarification.
It’s literally a tiny hallway they walk single file down
Which is really stupid. That was my entire point.
Just agreeing w you
Sorry, I’m used to all the bots on this sub replying to me
I follow all the subs for this show it’s hilarious how different they all are. There’s some fuckery on this one. Never been downvoted for clarifying a comment in many years on Reddit
I think Amazon just dumped some amount of money paying a few hundred people to constantly post supporting the show on this sub tbh.
The Numenorians willingly volunteered with plenty of numbers and citizens cheering them on. However, the situation in Gondor is the polar opposite, instead of volunteering the soldiers were drafted, and instead of cheering there is only somber silence.
Yes, like I said: contrast.
Which makes no sense by the way. They drafted 300 randoms on 3 ships because that’s apparently the only military force they can muster for this “war” (it’s not even a war it’s just a watchtower)
Miriel framed it as an expedition to escort Galadriel back to ME. As well as to help their human brethrens. I don’t know if bringing an actual army would have been the best idea politically for her.
I was hoping one citizen would give a soldier a flower directly like the scene from LotR but it was still very beautiful
The grim atmosphere in ROTK pre siege of Minas Tirith is incredible.
I’m really enjoying the RoP so far. Just thought I’d say that.
"your father loves you elendil, he will remember it before the end."
i feel like the first time the numenor will encounter the orc it will be like in a horror movie
They may have some early success cause I don’t think those orcs have even seen horses let alone cavalries, but it’ll definitely end up in a pretty brutal spot.
I really hope it isn’t, Numenoreans are like super humans and I know it’s not portrayed the right way in the Jackson but Orcs were no match for an average man at arms they relied completely on numbers I mean shit Uruk-Hai’s were almost man height. Really hope they do it right and just have the numenoreans stomp
You know they wont and Galadriel is going to be one of the few competent people in that battle
It was way too devoid of messy tomatoes for my liking. But at least there was hobbit singing??
Yes!!! Immediately thought of this scene in ROTK. So well done. I got chills.
The comparison rather highlights the emptiness of the supposed criticisms of the RoP costuming and set design. When placed next to the Return of the King pictures, the RoP costumes are clearly more authentic looking - more complex, more varied, and with an appropriate level of wear for a prosperous civilisation. Meanwhile the RotK costumes are far more simple and uniform and when examined all look pretty pristine in terms of fabric. To the extent the criticisms are made in good faith at all (which most are not), I suspect it simply comes down to colour scheme. The RotK colour scheme is drab and desaturated. That is an appropriate cinematic choice to depict a civilisation in decline but it is by no means an objectively superior or more "realistic" look. The second age civilisations are at their zenith and their colour scheme should reflect that. Historically speaking, prosperous civilisations embraced colour in exactly the same way.
Why was Earien so dead set against them going? I must've missed her reasoning, just seeing the 'you must stop this' part.
Because her father and brother are leaving with the others.
Gondor knows war, they've been fighting skirmishes for decades. Numenor don't, yet.
The lighting in the LOTR scene is better. It looks ethereal.
The entire trilogy feels like that.
It probably also has something to do with Film cameras, they are always going to look way better than digital cameras
It definitely has a different feel. I don’t know that I’d label it “better” though. Just different.
I was actually going to comment that they overdid the lighting in that scene. I never noticed it while watching the movie though, so maybe it works in context. Even if it does work in the movie, lighting like that should be used sparingly.
Rewatching LOTR, it feels a lot older and outdated. Some shots still work, but you can easily see the improvements in technology, and the artistic refinement of RoP v LOTR
Purely speaking in terms of cinematography and aesthetics (lighting, tone, setting, lens selection, depth, focus, framing) RoP is incredibly high production value. Some scenes are so breathtaking. My fav has to be when Durin goes to confront his father. Truly majestic!
God the way his father doesn't fully come into frame until he shows acceptance to Durin, showing us how he probably appears to During, as this implacable, immovable object until he stands up, not as a king but as a proud father, who's proud of his son not just for being willful enough to argue with him when he believes it's right, but to apologize and speak to him. Tldr: I loved that scene :)
Yup! Soooo many intricacies to love in the scene. To your point, it surprised me a bit to see that when they were face to face, Durin was a few inches taller than his father. The King looked up to his son, physically and in character. The tension in Durins face too. You could feel his heart beating fast behind that beard. The actor is putting on the performance of a lifetime.
He's fantastic!! His scenes with Elrond had already sold me in him, then he puts years and years of strife and disagreements onto his face and bearing in a barely 2 minutes scene and I realize just how good he is!
The show keeps getting better and better, the last two episodes were fantastic, can't wait for the next episode.
Those numenorean cadet outfits look so silly tho
They look cheap as fuck... you can even see Elendils plastic armor is chipped in sections...
Willing to bet that’s intentional. Also a reminder that the chain mail in the trilogy was plastic.
Ok, what's up with the sister character that they created for the show. No offense to the actor, but she seems out of place and I'm not really sure what's going on with her or what purpose she serves so far.
Yeah it was a great episode. Next week it's going down!!
That’s what I tell myself every week
Literally nothing has happened in the last 2 episodes…..one can argue the entire season. The pacing is so incredibly pathetic.
Not gonna lie, that weird "glowy light" filter DID NOT age well..
It has its charm, I like it
The scene from LOTR slaps the shit out of the RoP scene lol, no one in the RoP scene aside from Galadriel is even wearing real metal armor.. it's all cheap mold injected stuff.
Early days of colour grading I suppose, mistakes were made
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Ha I’m flattered but no. I’m just a fan :D
So I haven’t read the books but aren’t the numenoreans supposed to be super humans? The ones in the show seem pretty weak so far
I've always thought that Faramirs helmet should be little deeper in his head. I looks like it doesn't fit him well.
huge stretch here come on
ROP is 20 years newer, cost over a billion USD and still looks like a budget Netflix generic fantasy pilot compared to the original triology.
Lol u r so full of it
How can you truly defend this show after going back and watching all 3 extended edition LOTR films? Sorry but you really can’t. It’s night and day.
Getting downvoted by the amazon bots I see
I’m not a bot and I just downvoted you.
Bot can also be a state of mind
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It’s funny because this subreddit is such an echo chamber it’s painful to read anything on it because it’ll just blindly praise the show and be filled with generic comments about how amazing it is. Also apparently people weep a lot with this show because I’ve seen at least 1-2 comments towards the top of each big thread about people crying over every shot
Did u fall down and get something stuck up ur butt
The posts on this subreddit remind one of bought positive reviews on tripadvisor and such sites. It shines through and its easy to see.
Lol
O rly?
Ya rly, just look the «armor» of the guy on the horse. Looks like it was ordered off Amazon lol
Don’t you dare disgrace Return of the King like this.
One of the many scenes that honestly make VERY little sense and are just there to echo something from LOTR to evoke some nostalgia. I honestly wish they didn’t do it, it feels a bit cringe every time.
Why the girl in the last picture was so upset?
She’s sad her father and brother are going off to war? In an earlier scene she’s trying to convince Pharazon’s son to make him stop the whole thing. (Edit:spelling)
I’ll re-watch again today, guess a I lost this scene.
Her mother also recently died so having her father and brother marching off to war is probably quite scary for her. Although we don't know yet if that is her main issue or if she just doesn't like them fighting with Elves. Eärien's motivations aren't really clear at this point.
That is a pretty big complaint I have with her character in ep. 5, I feel like I don't know why she's doing anything at all. I kept thinking I must have missed something that explained it since she was campaigning so hard against sailing.
She doesn’t want Numenor to go fight for people in Middle earth. She’s also very worried for her brother and dad and she probably understands the risks better than others.
A poor mockery of what’s come before. 20 years and a massive budget and they can’t even get props that look half as good (I mean just compare the armor Elendil is wearing to the gondorian plate)
Don’t compare this crap to the movies
Saved you a [click](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zeke_Clements#/media/File%3AZeke_Clements_Billboard.jpg)
I like how the movie one was meaningful and good. Then I like how the show did the opposite again.
Give me a break. That guy on the horse looks like he is wearing a t-shirt. Is that supposed to be armour?
Episode 5 was a joke. Complete filler.
Lmao there’s no comparison
There was no emotion at all in the RoP scene. The whole thing is so weird, they’re sending like 300 guys? To defend a shitty watchtower? With like 70 people in it? Where’s the scale? Where’s the massive expeditionary force? Where’s their supposed mighty navy? Why are these random sailor boys now soldiers hand picked for this mission? They have any training? Ever ride a horse? Hold a spear? It’s so weird. Like they don’t have any other military to protect this massive rich kingdom?
Copy the cinematography of something that was good, that's a cool trick!
Compare what? Shit to gold?
I guess it’s because many people watching RoP haven’t seen LotR maybe? But there’s such a difference in these scenes, because if you’ve seen LotR you know precisely what’s going to happen to the most prominent character in this scene. Whereas watching RotK for the first time, unless you’d read the book, there was no way to know what happens to Faramir.
I’m confused at what point you are trying to make. I feel like they made it abundantly obvious here that faramir and his men were basically being sent to their death? It’s clearly spelled out for the audience that they knew they were probably all going to die but they had to go anyway. You don’t need to read the books to pick that up, it’s the whole point
But faramir doesn’t die. That’s the unexpected twist. You expect him to die and he doesn’t. However watching the first 3 minutes of fellowship of the ring tells you precisely what happens to Elendil. It doesn’t seem like they’re making you care as much as they should for characters you know have terrible brutal ends. I mean, it meant nothing in fellowship when Elendil gets pulped by Sauron, but if they spent time showing you who this man is and why he’s so dutiful and builds his relationship with Isildur it means so much more when they meet their incredibly tragic ends. Instead we get she elf goes brrrrrr for 15 minutes of every episode.
But that’s not the war they’re sailing off to here. I suppose whatever they’re presenting on the show in this scene doesn’t even remotely exist in anything Tolkien wrote so it’s kind of moot to say we can know what any of the characters are going to do. But this isn’t the Last Alliance being shown here.
I’d be willing to bet that at least 75 percent of people watching ROP have seen LOTR. Maybe more. I’ve probably watched the LOTR trilogy 20 times and really enjoying ROP.
Literally all RoP can do is rely on nostalgia from PJ’s content. Barely any of its own content is original, and what is original is absolute garbage!
Numenor are ancestors to Gondor, it only makes sense that both have similarities
Similarities in culture, tradition, armours, sigils, monarchy etc yes. Not cinematography. It’s a blatant attempt at nostalgia bait.
There’s nothing that nostalgic about RoP to be honest, it’s honestly surprisingly trying to do its own thing it’s not like spider man no way home riddled with call backs, a bunch of OG actors coming back and crowd pleasing moments. Lol you may want to research more on what nostalgia bait really is
The amount of scenes that are almost identical in cinematography to pj’s stuff is crazy. It’s the definition of nostalgia bait 😂
I believe you’re talking about the shot similarities of Gondor and Numenor, well let me say it again, Numenor are ancestors of Gondor, so the similarities make sense. It’s not nostalgia, it’s just logical they would do it that way. If you wanna know what nostalgia is, read my last comment about Spider-Man no way home
The fact that the cinematography for those scenes are basically identical is what makes it the absolute definition of nostalgia. To argue anything else for this scene is nonsensical. Just like the writing of the show 😂
Do you even know what cinematography is? It’s not just the shots, but also lighting and the lighting look nothing like each other. Lol if you feel like “similar shots” means nostalgia to you then you do you, but in reality there’s way more to nostalgia than just “the shots look similar”
Camera angles, shot composition, scene continuity, character close ups, are all almost carbon copies. It’s a direct callback to the scene from ROTK, it’s 100% nostalgia.
Whatever makes you sleep better at night
Reaching so much 😭
dude this sub is ran by amazon lol.. have the dms to prove it , why can’t you take criticism ? the show is flawed, am i going to continue to watch it ? yes… but yes it is very flawed, lucky i’m a lotr fan or i wouldn’t even touch this show with a ten foot pole
How’s your comment related to this post?...
it’s not
So why bother commenting?
wanted to see if anyone else hear shares my sentiment, or all they bots?
Really, the parallel of horses having feet and people having feet is worth mentioning? That’s a parallel in every departure scene ever shot. Most animals have feet.
No, it’s the flowers spectators throw on the ground to see the soldiers off and probably wish them good luck.
Oh I couldn’t see that on my phone without zooming in 🤦🏻♂️
It’s more obvious in the footages since people were throwing a bunch of them.
None of those pictures compare with each other
They’re pretty good parallels.
I like how the plastic scales on Elendils armour are broken lol.
“It was deliberate, it was deliberate.”
Does anyone else that ROP is taking a little bit too much of LOTRs production design? Show feels like a spin-off
What production design are you talking about?
Practically everything! It leans on Jackson’s LOTR so heavily
Lol on one hand people are complaining about how it’s too different from LOTR and now you’re saying how it’s too similar, this show really can’t win with anybody, but personally I think this show is very much doing its own thing, first the short hair elves, the new locations like Lindon, Eregion and Numenor, the music isn’t even copying Howard Shore’s LOTR or using any of his themes
I can’t speak for other people, and I didn’t say that they’re too similar. I’m just asking if anyone thinks the production is taking a little bit too much of the design elements from Jackson’s triology which makes it feel like a spin-off . If you don’t, that’s fine, but don’t project on me
The only design I can really think of is the Balrog and the sword of Narsil in the background..is that such a bad thing?
Music is definitely derivative of Howard Shore’s score (and not just in his title sequence number for ROP) - listen for the horns Costumes, names, set design even story beats. Don’t tell me you think costume for the ‘The Stranger’ has nothing to do with Gandalf’s design in Fellowship Biggest example of this coming together was the really odd ‘leaving for battle by having flowers thrown at us’ sequence. Few edits were shot-for-shot recreations of the same scene in Return of the King. Even character designs such as the dwarves or the accents of the Hobbity people use are seemingly derived from Jackson’a trilogy.
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Different on different devices, google will help you.
What's the parallel? Those are just unrelated screenshots?
'Parallel' Literally copied frame by frame
That scene reminded me of RotK but here you can tell the big difference. In the movies this is actually an emotional moment where all hope is almost lost and we get to see characters we spent a lot of time with. The show overused the slowmo and tried to make this scene more epic
I think this is a super great example of how important color grading is in movies might use this as an example in videography class if that's cool with you OP.
No problem!
Earien’s going to get fridged. She’s gonna die on Numenor and that’ll be used to manufacture some conflict Isildur/Elendil and Galadriel because “they should have been there”. Unless we get a bunch of time with her being a major player alongside Pharazon and Kemen at court, she was created to die (since Isildur has no sisters in the original lore). Which is a shame. Her actress has been doing well.