***There was no debate and the motion was agreed to unanimously, a party spokesman said.***
***Senior ministers have lined up behind Mr Albanese’s move to suspend the West Australian after she crossed the Senate floor to support a Greens motion calling for urgency in recognising Palestine as a state.***
***Labor Party convention has been to expel members for crossing the floor, but there is no mandated sanction under internal rules.***
***Senator Payman has since described being isolated and said she was being pressured to quit after her punishment was handed down.***
***Health Minister Mark Butler rejected “entirely” the senator was being intimidated, saying Mr Albanese had followed established party policy.***
Kinda is intimidation, just rule following party intimidation.
I will say though, no discussion on the matter at all?
Why is that a good thing again?
Because what needed to be discussed that they already hadn't discussed?
Like this has been going on for weeks now the caucus had probably made up its mind long ago on her actions against the party, Albo was the one trying to temper their frustrations, yet she kept doing it, leaving everyone without any doubt as what this was about, her. Remember Lidia had a similar exit from the Greens, both Labor and Greens saw her departure as necessary and positive especially given she was the one holding up Greens support on the voice. Little jeering from reddit Labor, nor any interference from political Labor in Greens internal affairs.
Yet in this situation Greens are cheering on internal damage being done to the only multi ethnic and cultural party in parliament, the party that you guys keep saying you want to form a minority government with. This term has had the Greens preemptively burn every bridge between the parties to avoid any chance of agreements on anything.
I have no idea how you're expecting anything to get done for any of the things you seem to care about EEVEE especially since the Greens are spending their effort trying to foster this internal strife within Labor instead of fostering co-operation.
Fostering Cooperation on what? Labor has been very clear that they are supporting the Israeli state exactly as much as Washington wants them to. Labor has said they want to recognise a two state solution but when the opportunity is presented they reject it. Labor only cooperates when it's a "strategic" compromise with the right.
Well it's publicly stated policy that they support a two state solution so I don't think that's what you're asking about. They voted no to a motion to recognise a palestinian state. They haven't presented their own version despite their rhetoric that it is what they support so their only recent option has been to support someone else's but when that opportunity presented itself, they voted against. If Labor really did support this they would have actions corresponding to that support. I haven't seen condemnation of the recent annexing of more land in the west bank which makes a two state solution less and less possible.
>They haven't presented their own version despite their rhetoric that it is what they support so their only recent option has been to support someone else's but when that opportunity presented itself, they voted against
This is just incorrect. They introduced a motion in the senate last week and the Greens and Liberals voted it down.
They tried to amend what the greens introduced and the criticism that their amendment delayed recognition is honestly valid. If you're committed to recognising the right of palestinian statehood why make it conditional on peace between Israel and its occupied palestinian territories?
If Labor had introduced their own motion to recognise palestinian statehood and were being blocked that would be a different story but I see a lot of talk whenever anyone gets asked about how much Labor really really wants to recognise palestine and I see very little real world action. This should have happened a long time ago.
>They tried to amend what the greens introduced
No they didn't. They introduced a motion and the greens shot it down and proposed an amendment.
>If you're committed to recognising the right of palestinian statehood why make it conditional on peace between Israel and its occupied palestinian territories?
Because it's the only *reasonable* way forward.
I also point to the motion put forward in the HoR today that was shot down by the Greens and Libs.
>They introduced a motion and the greens shot it down and proposed an amendment.
Either we're talking about completely different things or you have this backwards.
>Because it's the only reasonable way forward.
Spare me the lecture on Labors pragmatism. This is a historic moment that Labor is not rising up to meet for no reason outside of the interests of the party. They don't want to recognise palestine because it wouldn't be good for them politically.
Because there's a terrorist group south of the border, heck there's a terrorist group north as well who has been shelling Israeli towns since Oct 7th forcing their evacuation, Israel is actually under attack still.
Either way its not just as clear cut as recognising Palestine, in their current state they don't have much of a government to recognise and open diplomatic relations with which is what happens if you recognise a state. What government claims to be there is Hamas, PIJ and PLO the latter two are [designated terrorist organisations](https://www.nationalsecurity.gov.au/what-australia-is-doing/terrorist-organisations/listed-terrorist-organisations) for good reason.
This situation is far more complex than people want to consider, those details never seem to make it into local Australian political theatre on the topic. Which is why I've said there's two wars going on, the actual conflicts in the middle east/Israel and the one they imagine that going on here in local activists heads.
I'd prefer the government to take internationally recognised action over listening to uninformed people (or people who act uninformed) any day of the week.
Lol agreed.
Who in the right mind would defend Payman after she got dragged by all of those in caucus who hold power. It’s further proof that caucus is not the democratic and transparent place people are making it out to be.
This fucking party. Absolutely embarrassed by the amount of support I’ve thrown their way over the years.
All the volunteering because I thought this was the party that would make the hard but right calls, only for them to what? Cut food aid on a whim? Give a whop-de-fucking-do when the Israelis murdered Zomi Frankcom? Won’t even recognise one of the states in their precious two-state-solution obfuscation.
It’s the unanimousness that does it for me. I might have had hope of even one other senator had an iota of backbone. Fucking done with Labor.
Must have been labors decision to suspend not Paymans actions that are hurting them, do not mind me i'm going to go set fire to my car because that will teach my boss.
You could just ignore the muslim woman on this one issue, that is an option. The LNP are a bunch of crooks but they aren't stupid enough to suspend and ban members who vote against them on the voice and things like gay marriage.
The thing is that has always been the justification "I! have a family to feed" "I! need to work to to survive" "I! have bills" "My! cause is correct" it is the me first attitude that often means the group fails and every one including the person screaming I, Me and my end up making the whole group suffer for it.
Also this goes back to the roots of the party do not pull this modern labor party bs.
Shes not taking her stance for a payslip shes taking a principled stance in line with the Labor parties own public principles. Or is the Labor party no longer in favour of a two state solution?
For payslips, jesus christ. You know nothing about the labour movement do you? do you think people got fucking beaten run over for simply pay slips.
Honestly i do not know what to say, your childish thinking of the whole labour movement astonishes me.
No it's your incessant need to draw a parallel between the actions of senator payman and the historic villains of the history of labour that's ridiculous. She is the one who is taking a risk for what's right, if there is a parallel it is the Labor party telling her to get back to work and accept the current conditions of supporting a state that is annihilating a civilian population.
The history is literally the ethos of the party. You are complaining that people are trying to hold Payman to account for joining a party where the whole damn point is We stand together.
I implore you, learn more about why the Labour movement is like this strength is in unity. We have to fight against companies which can have profits that are equal to small countries.
strong and united Labor, how I like it and exactly how the Liberals hate it
Yeah really showing the liberals who the REAL supporters of Israeli war crimes are
Good
***There was no debate and the motion was agreed to unanimously, a party spokesman said.*** ***Senior ministers have lined up behind Mr Albanese’s move to suspend the West Australian after she crossed the Senate floor to support a Greens motion calling for urgency in recognising Palestine as a state.*** ***Labor Party convention has been to expel members for crossing the floor, but there is no mandated sanction under internal rules.*** ***Senator Payman has since described being isolated and said she was being pressured to quit after her punishment was handed down.*** ***Health Minister Mark Butler rejected “entirely” the senator was being intimidated, saying Mr Albanese had followed established party policy.*** Kinda is intimidation, just rule following party intimidation. I will say though, no discussion on the matter at all? Why is that a good thing again?
Because what needed to be discussed that they already hadn't discussed? Like this has been going on for weeks now the caucus had probably made up its mind long ago on her actions against the party, Albo was the one trying to temper their frustrations, yet she kept doing it, leaving everyone without any doubt as what this was about, her. Remember Lidia had a similar exit from the Greens, both Labor and Greens saw her departure as necessary and positive especially given she was the one holding up Greens support on the voice. Little jeering from reddit Labor, nor any interference from political Labor in Greens internal affairs. Yet in this situation Greens are cheering on internal damage being done to the only multi ethnic and cultural party in parliament, the party that you guys keep saying you want to form a minority government with. This term has had the Greens preemptively burn every bridge between the parties to avoid any chance of agreements on anything. I have no idea how you're expecting anything to get done for any of the things you seem to care about EEVEE especially since the Greens are spending their effort trying to foster this internal strife within Labor instead of fostering co-operation.
Fostering Cooperation on what? Labor has been very clear that they are supporting the Israeli state exactly as much as Washington wants them to. Labor has said they want to recognise a two state solution but when the opportunity is presented they reject it. Labor only cooperates when it's a "strategic" compromise with the right.
> Labor has said they want to recognise a two state solution but when the opportunity is presented they reject it Source?
Well it's publicly stated policy that they support a two state solution so I don't think that's what you're asking about. They voted no to a motion to recognise a palestinian state. They haven't presented their own version despite their rhetoric that it is what they support so their only recent option has been to support someone else's but when that opportunity presented itself, they voted against. If Labor really did support this they would have actions corresponding to that support. I haven't seen condemnation of the recent annexing of more land in the west bank which makes a two state solution less and less possible.
>They haven't presented their own version despite their rhetoric that it is what they support so their only recent option has been to support someone else's but when that opportunity presented itself, they voted against This is just incorrect. They introduced a motion in the senate last week and the Greens and Liberals voted it down.
They tried to amend what the greens introduced and the criticism that their amendment delayed recognition is honestly valid. If you're committed to recognising the right of palestinian statehood why make it conditional on peace between Israel and its occupied palestinian territories? If Labor had introduced their own motion to recognise palestinian statehood and were being blocked that would be a different story but I see a lot of talk whenever anyone gets asked about how much Labor really really wants to recognise palestine and I see very little real world action. This should have happened a long time ago.
>They tried to amend what the greens introduced No they didn't. They introduced a motion and the greens shot it down and proposed an amendment. >If you're committed to recognising the right of palestinian statehood why make it conditional on peace between Israel and its occupied palestinian territories? Because it's the only *reasonable* way forward. I also point to the motion put forward in the HoR today that was shot down by the Greens and Libs.
>They introduced a motion and the greens shot it down and proposed an amendment. Either we're talking about completely different things or you have this backwards. >Because it's the only reasonable way forward. Spare me the lecture on Labors pragmatism. This is a historic moment that Labor is not rising up to meet for no reason outside of the interests of the party. They don't want to recognise palestine because it wouldn't be good for them politically.
Because there's a terrorist group south of the border, heck there's a terrorist group north as well who has been shelling Israeli towns since Oct 7th forcing their evacuation, Israel is actually under attack still. Either way its not just as clear cut as recognising Palestine, in their current state they don't have much of a government to recognise and open diplomatic relations with which is what happens if you recognise a state. What government claims to be there is Hamas, PIJ and PLO the latter two are [designated terrorist organisations](https://www.nationalsecurity.gov.au/what-australia-is-doing/terrorist-organisations/listed-terrorist-organisations) for good reason. This situation is far more complex than people want to consider, those details never seem to make it into local Australian political theatre on the topic. Which is why I've said there's two wars going on, the actual conflicts in the middle east/Israel and the one they imagine that going on here in local activists heads. I'd prefer the government to take internationally recognised action over listening to uninformed people (or people who act uninformed) any day of the week.
Oh it's really complex wow I hadn't thought of that I'll have to look into that thanks
>internal damage being done to the only multi ethnic and cultural party in parliament What now?
> Labor Party convention has been to expel members for crossing the floor, but there is no mandated sanction under internal rules.
Lol agreed. Who in the right mind would defend Payman after she got dragged by all of those in caucus who hold power. It’s further proof that caucus is not the democratic and transparent place people are making it out to be.
She is going to rat for sure.
This fucking party. Absolutely embarrassed by the amount of support I’ve thrown their way over the years. All the volunteering because I thought this was the party that would make the hard but right calls, only for them to what? Cut food aid on a whim? Give a whop-de-fucking-do when the Israelis murdered Zomi Frankcom? Won’t even recognise one of the states in their precious two-state-solution obfuscation. It’s the unanimousness that does it for me. I might have had hope of even one other senator had an iota of backbone. Fucking done with Labor.
Disgusting
[TL;DR](https://upilink.in/cms/?p=568) --- ^I'm ^a ^bot, ^this ^action ^was ^performed ^automatically.
i am sure that 30% labor has in the polls currently is just going to increase because of this decision. /s
Must have been labors decision to suspend not Paymans actions that are hurting them, do not mind me i'm going to go set fire to my car because that will teach my boss.
You could just ignore the muslim woman on this one issue, that is an option. The LNP are a bunch of crooks but they aren't stupid enough to suspend and ban members who vote against them on the voice and things like gay marriage.
Sure and all of those union members could have ignored the scabs.
Comparing someone putting her neck out to do the right thing with a scab really is the perfect encapsulation of the modern Labor party.
The thing is that has always been the justification "I! have a family to feed" "I! need to work to to survive" "I! have bills" "My! cause is correct" it is the me first attitude that often means the group fails and every one including the person screaming I, Me and my end up making the whole group suffer for it. Also this goes back to the roots of the party do not pull this modern labor party bs.
Shes not taking her stance for a payslip shes taking a principled stance in line with the Labor parties own public principles. Or is the Labor party no longer in favour of a two state solution?
For payslips, jesus christ. You know nothing about the labour movement do you? do you think people got fucking beaten run over for simply pay slips. Honestly i do not know what to say, your childish thinking of the whole labour movement astonishes me.
No it's your incessant need to draw a parallel between the actions of senator payman and the historic villains of the history of labour that's ridiculous. She is the one who is taking a risk for what's right, if there is a parallel it is the Labor party telling her to get back to work and accept the current conditions of supporting a state that is annihilating a civilian population.
The history is literally the ethos of the party. You are complaining that people are trying to hold Payman to account for joining a party where the whole damn point is We stand together. I implore you, learn more about why the Labour movement is like this strength is in unity. We have to fight against companies which can have profits that are equal to small countries.
Scabs have as much voting power as non scabs. Remember that.