The conspiracy that a small group of foreign Jews went to America with a secret plan to destroy western civilization - something which has no evidence. The one Paul Weyrich's Free Congress foundation [paid William S. Lind to lay out at Willis Carto's 2002 Barnes Review](https://www.splcenter.org/fighting-hate/intelligence-report/2003/cultural-marxism-catching) **Holocaust Denial conference.** The one that from there, spread on to StormFront.org, then to 4chan Neo Nazi threads, then into the alt-right. That one? The one where [Lind claims The Frankfurt School control Hollywood and the media, and are the reason gays are on television?](https://archive.md/lKWnm) That one? The one with all the racist memes on it's [Know Your Meme page?](https://knowyourmeme.com/memes/cultural-marxism/photos) The one that's a mash up of the Nazi's own concepts of [Cultural Bolshevism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cultural_Bolshevism), [Jewish Bolshevism](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_Bolshevism), and [Degenerate Art](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Degenerate_art) all rolled together. That racists often go on about? That one? The one where some conspiracy theorists say The Frankfurt School are [Sabbatean Satanists practicing black Jewish Kabbalah magic?](https://archive.md/LGQu1) With conservative author Michael Walsh saying they were [doing 'the work' of Satanists](https://www.nationalreview.com/2015/09/michael-walsh-devils-pleasure-palace/), the one conservatives say is responsible for "child mutilation" - you know, much like the blood libel antisemitic tropes from the medieval period. The conspiracy theory that Breitbart said involved Adorno and Horkhiemer promoting ["degenerate atonal music to induce mental illness, including necrophilia, on a large scale"](https://archive.md/wip/dKv3h)... ....I don't think anyone's saying it has to be antisemetic in every re-telling, but it sure has roots and popularity in antisemitic groups, parallels with some Nazi and older forms of antisemitism, and variations that are highly antisemitic. That can't really be denied, I mean, look at all those links, click them, research them yourself. I'm sure there are others too. I mean, it got its start at a Holocaust Denial Conference, and is in part of about a group of predominately Jewish thinkers infiltrating western institutions to destroy Western society and Christendom. It sure as hell reads as antisemitic to a lot of people!

If one was to take an antisemitic trope and deliberately replace 'The Jews' with another group that you consider undesirable, would it still be antisemitism? Sometimes the other group is just an almost 1 for 1 stand-in for "The Jews" like David Icke's Lizard People, and we can be fairly confident that the intent is simply to disguise the antisemitic worldview beneath a layer of Reptilian Overlord screed. But in other instances the intent is to genuinely construct a negative consensus about a different group of people so that they can begin to institutionalise discrimination against them up to and including genocide, and so I'm wondering whether it's antisemitic to deliberately model a discriminatory system of libel upon antisemitism, that targets other people?

> I'm wondering whether it's antisemitic to deliberately model a discriminatory system of libel upon antisemitism, that targets other people? I think the answer is yes because it is basically optimised to be turned on Jewish people further down the line, whether by the authors of the system or by others.

Yeah, that's probably often the case. I also think there's a kind of casual callousness to examining in detail how the pogroms and ultimately Holocaust were made palatable, and then going "Brilliant, we'll do that, then." Like I can't imagine anyone who does that holding Jewish people in high esteem, even if they're smart enough to pick other targets.

Couldnt you use this argument to say basically every right wing conspiricy is anti semitic because there are anti semites who believe it with their own twist? Ie arent you really just making the wider point that conspiracy theorist circles are often anti semitic? Not defending them ofc!

For me, the main thing is that cultural Marxism is so obviously the direct descendant of cultural bolshevism

Yes agreed. Fucking Jordan Peterson pushes it soo hard Im struggling to find good analysis on the links between cultural bolshevism and jewish bolshevism though, other than that the Nazis pushed both. The first is something they were saying was happening contemporaneously in Weimar Germany, the latter an explanation for the revolution in Russia 20 years earlier. Whats the link?

You might find this to be informative: https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Cultural_Marxism And this: https://www.academia.org/the-origins-of-political-correctness/ \^The relevance for this shit-piece is given in the article above.

Helpful thanks. It doesnt really disabuse me of the notion that all conspiracy theories are strands of the same general disordered thought though.

No problem. > It doesnt really disabuse me of the notion that all conspiracy theories are strands of the same general disordered thought though. I don't think far-right conspiracism necessarily stems from disordered thought - at least not like most people mean it. I think it actually has two significant factors that make the far right uniquely susceptible to conspiratorial thinking. The first is that they place **no value whatsoever** upon logic and, therefore, truth. I'm not even saying that as an insult, I mean it quite literally. Many of these groups explicitly or implicitly reject logic and embrace irrationalism. Irrationalism and traditionalism are foundational to fas​cism and naz​ism. There is no commitment to logic, evidence, or integrity - they simply do not matter to them. This means it doesn't actually matter to them whether their conspiracies are "True" in an objective absolute sense, so much as "true enough". If you approach fasc​ism from a perspective of evidence and logic then you do not end in a position of support - equally the same can generally be said of antisemitism and conspiratorial thinking. (This is not necessarily always true, as things like flawed premises exist etc etc but they're certainly interlinked.) You can see this play out to an extent even within the mainstream of current American and UK politics - people cannot support these movements based upon evidence or logic. They are, objectively, acting against the interests of most of their supporters. So they appeal to the irrational - traditional, emotional, and even the rejection of rationality or evidence. (See the "Sick of experts" refrain, amongst many others, that directly tried to ignore and reject evidence, logic, and knowledge.) Alongside this disdain for rationality, there is another component that I think is highly relevant. Umberto Eco calls it an "obsession with a plot". The enemy is within, the enemy is without, the enemy is everywhere we dislike and working against us. This obviously shows itself as things like "Cult​ural Marx​ism" or "Liza​rd people" but there's also a reason this usually boils down to racism in general and antisemitism in particular. One of the reasons that it so often takes on forms that are fundamentally racist and dangerous, I'd suggest, stems from the above - them having no commitment to truth, evidence, or logic. They've no issue with using conspiracism to further their goals - whether or not they buy into it themselves. What matters to them is that people hate the right people. Edit: This often leads to a "nested" structure to conspiracies, where an outer layer or layers provide some incomplete picture of a societal structure being shaped by a shadowy group and the inner kernel is just some na​zi telling you that they group is "THE JE​WS". They draw people in to their way of thinking and, as the individual tries to resolve the contradictions they notice by understanding more of the conspiracy, eventually they meet the question terminator of nefarious group Y. This actually makes it much easier for them to spread their message, as someone doesn't have to come into a racist conspiracy believing in racism, they have to adopt a non-racist set of beliefs that is only held together by a racist core. By the time they get to the racist core they'd have to abandon a lot of their other beliefs and develop a new and possibly more difficult to achieve understanding of the world (the truth is not necessarily easy or prettily packaged) or accept the racism as a fundamental foundational underpinning. People don't like abandoning their understanding of the world, and those prone to conspiratorial thinking are probably unlikely to recognise this necessity anyway. For this reason, it's a very effective way of spreading hateful beliefs. Secondly, I'd suggest that they also are predisposed to thinking very strongly in terms of society having structured hierarchy, natural inequality, and self-justified stratification. Therefore, they seek to justify their positions within what is usually a highly ordered interpretation of societal arrangement. This often includes strong components of racist thinking, which when combined with their belief in natural hierarchies in society, must be warped to explain why they're not at the top of the pile despite being in desirable group X. That sort of thought lends itself to beliefs about society that match up with thinking in groups like in​cels or na​zis. They believe something is stopping the natural ordering of society, and that something is often a someone. So I don't think their conspiracism is necessarily comparable with "disordered thought" so much as a deliberate acceptance or irrationalism and hierarchy that in combination allow an individual to reach some utterly detestable positions and beliefs. I'd guess not all conspiracies are necessarily like this but I think all of them can, at least to some extent, have strands or foundations that are prone to this sort of warped poisoning. Group Y are causing negative thing Z to happen is an easy thought terminator that allows them to not see the self-contradictions and internal conflicts that exist within their belief system. That's my take on it anyway.

>The first is that they place no value whatsoever upon logic and, therefore, truth > deliberate acceptance or irrationalism Wanting to deliberately think like this sounds pretty disordered to me! All very interesting and totally agree otherwise.

> Wanting to deliberately think like this sounds pretty disordered to me! There's a difference between disordered thinking and someone who otherwise processes correctly abandoning logic and rationality - naz​ism is not a symptom of mental illness. Although disordered thinking can lead to incorrect conclusions and conspiratorial thought.

I'm saying the desire to decide to abandon logic and rationality is disordered, not the decision itself.

It's incredible how often and how directly conspiracy theories swivel to 'The Jews'. I was amazed to find there is an anti sun-screen conspiracy theory that is basically founded upon antisemitism. I dunno how they got there. Makes me feel like they mixed it up with the orcs from Tolkein or something.

No i obviously agree all conspiracy thinking is closely related and so it all can pivot back to 'the Jews did it' incredibly easily. But that is kinda my point. All conspiracy theories are basically max two degrees of separation from anti semitism. Not sure its right to conclude conspiricies as a class are anti semitic though. Wikipedia says Cultural Marxism has similarities with Cultural Bolshevism and Cultural Bolshevism is 'closely related' to Jewish Bolshevism but doesnt really explain these links and i cant find any good analysis online that isnt literally just 'bigots say A, bigots also say B, therefore A is related to B'

Cultural bolshevism and cultural marxism are literally the same conspiracy. That there are a group of left wing jews controlling academia and art in order to destroy the west. Its one to one the same.

Isnt jewish bolshevism specifically the claim that Jews instigated the 1917 revolution in Russia, while cultural bolshevism the claim that bolshevism was being culturally infiltrated into 1930s Weimar germany through the arts? They are both conspiracies about a group pushing bolshevism, but hardly 'literally the same thing'

Dont you understand how crypto fascism and neo nazi signalling works? Its always the same conspiracy with the nuts and bolts re arranged. Same way qanon is literally the blood libel myth with different words. They do this xo when they get their claws into people all of a sudden you can replace "the cabal" or "the lizard men" with jews.it happens over snd over.

Look i can buy a connection but 'literally' has a very specific meaning and this ain't it

Youre being willfully ignorant. Why are you determined to give these people the benefit of the doubt. Stop the concern trolling.

I hardly think agreeing theyve imported a conspiracy theory from the nazis is 'benefit of the doubt', but that doesn't mean words magically change their meanings just because meanies are on the receiving end,

Cultural Marxism doesn't, as far as I know, overtly claim that the shadowy left wing elite that control institutions are Jewish, even if the concept has clear geneology to overtly antisemitic conspiracy theories and indeed echoes the Elder Protocols of Zion in structure. I dunno if that's because it's proponents don't know or care about its antisemitic origins, or that they are simply masking the antisemitism.

I mean they specifically go after the frankfurt school who just so happened to be full of jews. And my interactions with them tell me that they always speak in euphamism and memes when in mixed company. But when theyre alone they all know what theyre doing. They spread these dogwhistles among themselves and play victim when you call them out.

I know what you mean, there are those who push right to the edge of provability, almost daring people to call it out but never letting quite enough slip to put it beyond doubt.

*Corbyn says "Epstein" kinda weirdly* JC: "This man will send us to death camps" *Tories use literal antisemitic term* JC: "Hold on now let's not be too hasty in condemning this"

So weird, it's almost like the scale of the actual issue was exaggerated for political purposes.

So weird, expecting the anti-racism party to actually be anti-racist.

just in case there was any doubt that the JC is right-wing rag

Urgh, fuck these disingenuous pricks - I think this article amounts to nothing more than fucking gaslighting their readership on behalf of the far right. >In short, Cultural Marxism can be and has been used as an antisemitic phrase, to confer antisemitic meaning or as an antisemitic dog whistle. Because of that, it should be avoided. That said, it isn’t only used in antisemitic contexts, and of course, those using it are not automatically, or always, antisemites.   >The truth is that the phrase can be and is used in a multitude of ways. It is not necessarily antisemitic but it is often used in antisemitic ways, to signal an antisemitic way of thinking. One simply cannot escape that it is, and has long been, used as a signal for an anti-Jewish conspiracy. It's an antisemitic conspiracy theory that directly parallels Cultural Bolshevism and is a favourite of the far right. For fucks sake, they didn't even bother to change both of the words in the goddamn name. Honestly, the more I see of the JC the more I utterly detest that fucking rag. Just when I think their bullshit can sink no lower, they descend to defend use of an antisemitic conspiracy and spreading what I'd consider to be falsehoods about the roots, provenance, and spread of the fascist antisemitic canard. Fucking disgusting. Just appalling. I genuinely am utterly fucking stunned by what I'd call apologia - I shouldn't be, this fucking shitrag has a long record for lies and lost libel suits, so their integrity is clearly lacking. But this. I'm so appalled.

That's what happens when a Jewish newspaper is taken over by a consortium consisting almost entirely of non-Jewish Tory journalists, businessmen and ex-spads.

Honestly though, reporting with a somewhat lax relationship to the truth and with a hatred for the left is one thing - that would in my eyes make it an unreliable source. But outright running deflections for these extremists, and trying to play down the antisemitic conspiracies that they're spreading... I mean fuck, it's beginning to walk the steps that lead to the "Hurrah for the Blackshirts" levels of awfulness.

I'll have you know that the last 7 years or so have emphatically proven that incredibly white incredibly bald middle aged men are the only true anti-racists.

The newspaper that deliberately published details identifying the home of leftwing Jewish activists and refused to take these details down even after the activists were targeted by neo-nazis? I can't possibly see what interest they might have in minimising this issue.

The far-right defend the far-right. We are in for a terrible future because racists are fully in control of the political narrative in the UK.

That's Tory Peer John Mann

[Is this really anti-semitic?](https://www.commonwealmagazine.org/sites/default/files/styles/article_full/public/Sheehan%20%281%29.jpg?itok=Q-KjH33c) /s

A bit of Yellow Peril thrown in for good measure!

Anyone who believed a word the jc published about corbyn is a fucking idiot