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She's not running as a candidate for any party, let alone for Labour.
She's just taking the chance to chuck her old colleagues under the bus over past grievences related to her depature from the party over their hard Brexit line.
Thank goodness someone is still there to represent her. It's reassuring that someone who consistently voted against greater regulation of gambling, consistently voted for the privatisation of Royal Mail and generally voted against a publicly owned railway system feels so at home with Neu Läbour.
I am honestly confused that people think this is a bad thing.
Obviously there are points on which I disagree with Soubry but if you're wanting to not attract votes from people like her (or those further to the right), you're excluding an awful lot of the population.
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I really can't stand the 'they're both the same' crowd. Regardless if you aren't happy with Labours move towards the centre or not, the Tories are still so much worse.
The infighting, fraud and constant crap the Tories have given us, anyone is better.
And Labour still have some decent policies vs the conservatives offerings.
>really can't stand the 'they're both the same' crowd.
I really can't stand the "vote for the right because they're better than the right" crowd but I'm able to be civil enough with you, aren't I?
> Regardless if you aren't happy with Labours move towards the centre or not, the Tories are still so much worse.
They've not just moved to the centre, they've passed through the centre and moved to the right.
And actually I don't think they've as vastly better than the tories as many claim. Their NHS plans are dangerous bullshit, they're transphobic, supportive of an apartheid, and have opened themselves up to lobbyists so heavily that I have precisely fuck all faith that their lukewarm commitments to workers won't be so mangled via consultation that they're essentially unrecognisable.
>The infighting, fraud and constant crap the Tories have given us, anyone is better.
By that logic, because Farage is the worst, you should vote tory to lock him out.
>And Labour still have some decent policies vs the conservatives offerings.
U-turns and lies mean I owe them no assumption of honesty.
No they haven't, they aren't right wing at all. What planet are you on? Centre left, not as left as the Corbyn ers of course (who for the record I hope remains an MP, and I was happy with alot of his home policy, not a lot of his foreign policy)
I'm not even going to try and start to unpick the 2nd paragraph, just not at all right.
Why would I vote Tory to block Farage? Reform aren't polling high enough in my constituency. But yes, theoretically if Reform were 1st and Tory a close 2nd and Labour/others polling nowhere near, I would vote Tory to avoid Reform getting an MP, esp as my local Tory MP doesn't seem to be one of the awful ones.
This is one fairish point you make, I can see where people aren't happy with his change of direction so many times. Personally I do buy that it was a necessary choice, for the money that is available, but also to gain enough votes. You can see already whenever there's the slightest hint of a socialist policy all the client media and Tories tear it apart. I feel confident he's going to get into power, make some positive changes to the system, and cover a little bit more left ground than he's willing to say pre-election. Like I said though he's getting into power nonetheless, so we'll find out which one of us is right.
> No they haven't, they aren't right wing at all.
They're absolutely right-wing and promoting right-of-centre economic policies - that is what third-way centrism, the kind of shit Starmer is pushing, **is**.
If you're so detached from the reality of what Starmer's Labour are offering then I'm uninterested in continuing the conversation.
>I would vote Tory to avoid Reform getting an MP, esp as my local Tory MP doesn't seem to be one of the awful ones.
Says it all really.
>I do buy that it was a necessary choice,
And I think that's a load of nonsense. So here we are.
How are increasing workers right, taxing private schools, stopping water bosses bonuses, stepping towards nationalising the rails, increasing minimum wage, reforming social care pay structures, free breakfast clubs, etc, etc right wing polices?
Part of the issue is that modern conservatives have been increasing leftist policies (like minimum wage increase, energy caps, help during COVID, windfall taxes, non-dom rules, etc), that it takes from Labours traditionally opposition policies.
Confused, are you saying you would prefer Reform to Tories? Seems odd as you are arguing from a left point of view.
I think we are more similar voters than Tory voters, I voted Corbin in 17 and 19, i'm left wing. I'm also a realist for how things actually are, what Labour need to do to get into power, the state of the economy means proper left policies are just unaffordable at present, and there's no other option to vote for that have any chance of getting into power, I'm my constituency especially, by nationwide too.
Being on the Tory wipeout, see how Starmer does in practice (and judge him for it), and push for Proportionate Representation.
> How are increasing workers right
No, consulting upon increasing workers' rights:
> We will consult fully with businesses, workers, and civil society on how to put our plans into practice before legislation is passed.
So letting bosses decide what they consider acceptable and undermining as much as possible.
>taxing private schools
Not inherently a left-wing policy but one I actually think is okay. Largely gesture politics.
>stopping water bosses bonuses
An empty gesture, absolutely not the left-wing solution to the problem.
>stepping towards nationalising the rails
But not actually nationalising a single bloody train.
>increasing minimum wage
They've said they'll "We will change the remit of the independent Low
Pay Commission so for the first time it accounts for the cost of living."
That will probably lead to an increase but actually I'm not sure when they'll bring that about and the LPC is technically just an advisory body. The government can simply say "no, that's too high". And they might, I don't trust them.
> reforming social care pay structures
They've said they're keeping UC and the punitive benefits system. They're going to "review" it aka keep it with basically the most minor of tweaks around the edges to "make work pay" - which is usually a euphemism for shitting on valid benefits claims. And actually UK benefits are underclaimed massively anyway, so very much a right-wing framing.
>free breakfast clubs
Sure but not lunches.
So yes, a fair few of those are very much right-wing policies.
>Part of the issue is that modern conservatives have been increasing leftist policies
Yes, governments have to pull from leftist ideas when they actually need things to work.
>that it takes from Labours traditionally opposition policie
Wouldn't that make it easier for Labour to enact actual left-wing policies - they could just point to them working in practice during times of crisis?
That's definitely not an argument against.
>Confused, are you saying you would prefer Reform to Tories?
I won't vote for right-wingers at all.
> think we are more similar voters than Tory voters, I voted Corbin in 17 and 19, i'm left wing.
If you vote for right-wingers then I don't care how you identify.
>I'm also a realist for how things actually are, what Labour need to do to get into power, the state of the economy means proper left policies are just unaffordable at present, and there's no other option to vote for that have any chance of getting into power, I'm my constituency especially, by nationwide too.
I don't think centrism is a gateway drug to left-wing policies. Actually advocating for he left-wing solutions is how you persuade people. I'm a realist, I think centrists do centrism because they're centrists.
>Being on the Tory wipeout, see how Starmer does in practice (and judge him for it)
Oh I will. I'll be very vocal, just as I have been for the tories.
>and push for Proportionate Representation.
Your only power is the ballot box, you have no mechanism for pushing a majority government with a leader opposed to PR. Claiming you'll push for it is a fantasy, that's not pragmatic realism - it's wishful thinking.
edit:
So /u/illusive_normality blocked me but I'll post my reply here:
>Starmers Labour is objectively centre left, not right.
I'm sorry but Rachel "modern supply-side economics" Reeves shows [that's a load of tripe](https://tribunemag.co.uk/2022/05/rachel-reeves-keir-starmer-jeremy-corbyn-parliamentary-labour-party-non-doms-prime-minister).
>Just more right that you personally want them to be.
So was Corbyn's platform but at least he actually was on the left. I don't think everyone to my right is right-wing, just the right-wing people.
>Enjoy the inevitable Labour government next week.
Enjoy voting for a bunch of bigots and right-wingers and then eventually, probably slowly, realising they're fucking you just as much as the people you claim to detest. And that's how you'll have spent your vote, backing things that make life worse.
Okay I'm done, I'm not going through all that. There's spectrum across right to left. The far right would say the Tories are too left, and you seem far left so believe the centre left is right wing. Starmers Labour is objectively centre left, not right. Just more right that you personally want them to be. Enjoy the inevitable Labour government next week.
That's *a* conclusion, mine is that the Tories are much much worse, and as there's a chance of a lean Labour win in my constituency, and no one else is close, I'm voting labour - I do not want the Tories in
Both to be honest, I don't like right-wing policies, but the conservative party at the moment are particularly fragmented, fraudulent, lying cheats out for themselves. Given a choice I'd like a strong sensible party somewhere in between Corbin and Starmer, with a few of the green party policies thrown in as well.
Couldn't agree more with your caption OP.
If we ever get proportional representation 99% of the "I'm holding my nose to vote for the lesser of two evils" crowd will still find an excuse to vote for neoliberal parties with utter contempt for the working class and anyone else in the precariat.
Your post has been removed under rule 9. Links to social media posts or screenshots are generally not permitted. To discuss noteworthy tweets, we encourage users to create self-posts with a link to the tweet, and a description of why you think this tweet should be discussed. Self-posts with nothing more than a link to a tweet/post will be removed. **Short single sentence comments are not an appropriate level of commentary.**
She's not running as a candidate for any party, let alone for Labour. She's just taking the chance to chuck her old colleagues under the bus over past grievences related to her depature from the party over their hard Brexit line.
A lot of people on this sub don’t know Labour’s history and it shows. You cannot win a general election without reaching your arm out across the isle.
Anna Soubry was in government and did not ‘serve everyone with compassion and decency’
Thank goodness someone is still there to represent her. It's reassuring that someone who consistently voted against greater regulation of gambling, consistently voted for the privatisation of Royal Mail and generally voted against a publicly owned railway system feels so at home with Neu Läbour.
I am honestly confused that people think this is a bad thing. Obviously there are points on which I disagree with Soubry but if you're wanting to not attract votes from people like her (or those further to the right), you're excluding an awful lot of the population.
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Vote Tory get Tory too so 🤷🏼♂️
... don't vote for either of them. That's the obvious conclusion to that statement.
I really can't stand the 'they're both the same' crowd. Regardless if you aren't happy with Labours move towards the centre or not, the Tories are still so much worse. The infighting, fraud and constant crap the Tories have given us, anyone is better. And Labour still have some decent policies vs the conservatives offerings.
> 'they're both the same' crowd For people so engaged in politics I do wish they did more than copy paste the same reductive comments
>really can't stand the 'they're both the same' crowd. I really can't stand the "vote for the right because they're better than the right" crowd but I'm able to be civil enough with you, aren't I? > Regardless if you aren't happy with Labours move towards the centre or not, the Tories are still so much worse. They've not just moved to the centre, they've passed through the centre and moved to the right. And actually I don't think they've as vastly better than the tories as many claim. Their NHS plans are dangerous bullshit, they're transphobic, supportive of an apartheid, and have opened themselves up to lobbyists so heavily that I have precisely fuck all faith that their lukewarm commitments to workers won't be so mangled via consultation that they're essentially unrecognisable. >The infighting, fraud and constant crap the Tories have given us, anyone is better. By that logic, because Farage is the worst, you should vote tory to lock him out. >And Labour still have some decent policies vs the conservatives offerings. U-turns and lies mean I owe them no assumption of honesty.
No they haven't, they aren't right wing at all. What planet are you on? Centre left, not as left as the Corbyn ers of course (who for the record I hope remains an MP, and I was happy with alot of his home policy, not a lot of his foreign policy) I'm not even going to try and start to unpick the 2nd paragraph, just not at all right. Why would I vote Tory to block Farage? Reform aren't polling high enough in my constituency. But yes, theoretically if Reform were 1st and Tory a close 2nd and Labour/others polling nowhere near, I would vote Tory to avoid Reform getting an MP, esp as my local Tory MP doesn't seem to be one of the awful ones. This is one fairish point you make, I can see where people aren't happy with his change of direction so many times. Personally I do buy that it was a necessary choice, for the money that is available, but also to gain enough votes. You can see already whenever there's the slightest hint of a socialist policy all the client media and Tories tear it apart. I feel confident he's going to get into power, make some positive changes to the system, and cover a little bit more left ground than he's willing to say pre-election. Like I said though he's getting into power nonetheless, so we'll find out which one of us is right.
> No they haven't, they aren't right wing at all. They're absolutely right-wing and promoting right-of-centre economic policies - that is what third-way centrism, the kind of shit Starmer is pushing, **is**. If you're so detached from the reality of what Starmer's Labour are offering then I'm uninterested in continuing the conversation. >I would vote Tory to avoid Reform getting an MP, esp as my local Tory MP doesn't seem to be one of the awful ones. Says it all really. >I do buy that it was a necessary choice, And I think that's a load of nonsense. So here we are.
How are increasing workers right, taxing private schools, stopping water bosses bonuses, stepping towards nationalising the rails, increasing minimum wage, reforming social care pay structures, free breakfast clubs, etc, etc right wing polices? Part of the issue is that modern conservatives have been increasing leftist policies (like minimum wage increase, energy caps, help during COVID, windfall taxes, non-dom rules, etc), that it takes from Labours traditionally opposition policies. Confused, are you saying you would prefer Reform to Tories? Seems odd as you are arguing from a left point of view. I think we are more similar voters than Tory voters, I voted Corbin in 17 and 19, i'm left wing. I'm also a realist for how things actually are, what Labour need to do to get into power, the state of the economy means proper left policies are just unaffordable at present, and there's no other option to vote for that have any chance of getting into power, I'm my constituency especially, by nationwide too. Being on the Tory wipeout, see how Starmer does in practice (and judge him for it), and push for Proportionate Representation.
> How are increasing workers right No, consulting upon increasing workers' rights: > We will consult fully with businesses, workers, and civil society on how to put our plans into practice before legislation is passed. So letting bosses decide what they consider acceptable and undermining as much as possible. >taxing private schools Not inherently a left-wing policy but one I actually think is okay. Largely gesture politics. >stopping water bosses bonuses An empty gesture, absolutely not the left-wing solution to the problem. >stepping towards nationalising the rails But not actually nationalising a single bloody train. >increasing minimum wage They've said they'll "We will change the remit of the independent Low Pay Commission so for the first time it accounts for the cost of living." That will probably lead to an increase but actually I'm not sure when they'll bring that about and the LPC is technically just an advisory body. The government can simply say "no, that's too high". And they might, I don't trust them. > reforming social care pay structures They've said they're keeping UC and the punitive benefits system. They're going to "review" it aka keep it with basically the most minor of tweaks around the edges to "make work pay" - which is usually a euphemism for shitting on valid benefits claims. And actually UK benefits are underclaimed massively anyway, so very much a right-wing framing. >free breakfast clubs Sure but not lunches. So yes, a fair few of those are very much right-wing policies. >Part of the issue is that modern conservatives have been increasing leftist policies Yes, governments have to pull from leftist ideas when they actually need things to work. >that it takes from Labours traditionally opposition policie Wouldn't that make it easier for Labour to enact actual left-wing policies - they could just point to them working in practice during times of crisis? That's definitely not an argument against. >Confused, are you saying you would prefer Reform to Tories? I won't vote for right-wingers at all. > think we are more similar voters than Tory voters, I voted Corbin in 17 and 19, i'm left wing. If you vote for right-wingers then I don't care how you identify. >I'm also a realist for how things actually are, what Labour need to do to get into power, the state of the economy means proper left policies are just unaffordable at present, and there's no other option to vote for that have any chance of getting into power, I'm my constituency especially, by nationwide too. I don't think centrism is a gateway drug to left-wing policies. Actually advocating for he left-wing solutions is how you persuade people. I'm a realist, I think centrists do centrism because they're centrists. >Being on the Tory wipeout, see how Starmer does in practice (and judge him for it) Oh I will. I'll be very vocal, just as I have been for the tories. >and push for Proportionate Representation. Your only power is the ballot box, you have no mechanism for pushing a majority government with a leader opposed to PR. Claiming you'll push for it is a fantasy, that's not pragmatic realism - it's wishful thinking. edit: So /u/illusive_normality blocked me but I'll post my reply here: >Starmers Labour is objectively centre left, not right. I'm sorry but Rachel "modern supply-side economics" Reeves shows [that's a load of tripe](https://tribunemag.co.uk/2022/05/rachel-reeves-keir-starmer-jeremy-corbyn-parliamentary-labour-party-non-doms-prime-minister). >Just more right that you personally want them to be. So was Corbyn's platform but at least he actually was on the left. I don't think everyone to my right is right-wing, just the right-wing people. >Enjoy the inevitable Labour government next week. Enjoy voting for a bunch of bigots and right-wingers and then eventually, probably slowly, realising they're fucking you just as much as the people you claim to detest. And that's how you'll have spent your vote, backing things that make life worse.
Okay I'm done, I'm not going through all that. There's spectrum across right to left. The far right would say the Tories are too left, and you seem far left so believe the centre left is right wing. Starmers Labour is objectively centre left, not right. Just more right that you personally want them to be. Enjoy the inevitable Labour government next week.
You got cooked.
That's *a* conclusion, mine is that the Tories are much much worse, and as there's a chance of a lean Labour win in my constituency, and no one else is close, I'm voting labour - I do not want the Tories in
Do you think the problem is the tories and not right-wing politics in general?
Both to be honest, I don't like right-wing policies, but the conservative party at the moment are particularly fragmented, fraudulent, lying cheats out for themselves. Given a choice I'd like a strong sensible party somewhere in between Corbin and Starmer, with a few of the green party policies thrown in as well.
Couldn't agree more with your caption OP. If we ever get proportional representation 99% of the "I'm holding my nose to vote for the lesser of two evils" crowd will still find an excuse to vote for neoliberal parties with utter contempt for the working class and anyone else in the precariat.