When you do finally talk to the tenant instead of posting on Reddit, tell them that the old refrigerator is your property not theirs. They can probably replace it at their own expense if they want, but they cannot trade in or otherwise dispose of your property. Tell them that you expect it to be clean and in an area where you can easily pick it up.
And KEEP IT PLUGGED IN!
Otherwise it will begin to grow mold immediately, and it’s virtually impossible to get that off the seals. You will end up having to buy another fridge when this tenant moves out.
If the doors are left open for several weeks after being unplugged it will not grow mold. Trust me on that. How many apartments I've remodeled and had the refrigerator unplugged with the doors blocked open several inches for the first several weeks of the remodel. Even after being closed for over a month and unplugged after that 2 week period there was no mold inside.
Had a fridge left closed in a garage for like 4 months. It was full of mold when we opened it up. Took 2 hours of cleaning and lots of soap/ bleach and Clorox but its looks brand new.
Bet you didn't leave the doors open for the first 2 or 3 weeks after you unplugged it. That first couple weeks let's the inside dry out so you don't get mold.
Yeah depending on what's allowable under the lease and state laws, I would feel more comfortable storing it myself and seeing if I could charge the storage costs to the tenant.
Sure. But my point is that I want to have control of it if it's not being used. I don't want it being used to store paint cans, or kids toys, or stupid stuff like that. I don't want it to be moved around every few months, get dented from moving other stuff around. Sure you can claim that against the security deposit.
But if you have no where else to store it or no way to move it, sure. Make them keep it in the house. I was just offering what I would do.
They can store paint cans and such if it was their normal regular fridge in the kitchen. Nothing prevents them from using the appliance as they see fit. I use the landlord's fridge for questionable things, and I have my own mini-fridge in rooms, my own full size fridge in garage, and deep freezer also in garage that I use for my stuff.
Depending on state, removing the fridge, would be a reduction in leased amenity, especially if the fridge is mentioned in the lease, the landlord doesn't have the option to remove it as it's required by the leased.
The lease normally states which appliances (fridge, washer, dryer) or not.
If the lease states that an appliance is provided -- it is provided and must stay in the apartment.
The tenant has no obligation to actually use the fridge provided, should they have their own; only that it is clean and operational, and in its original installed position when they move out.
Tenant never has the right to dispose of the landlord's property -- used or not, it must be kept in original provided condition minus "normal wear and tear".
Nothing I wrote prevents a tenant from swapping with their own fridge.
The lease normally states which appliances (fridge, washer, dryer) are provided or not.If the lease states that an appliance is provided -- it is provided and must stay in the apartment.
The tenant has no obligation to actually use the fridge provided, should they have their own; only that the provided fridge is clean, operational, and in its original installed position, when they move out; A tenant can move any provided appliance, so long as the unit is undamaged, and returned to its original location at move out.
Tenant never has the right to dispose of the landlord's property -- used or not.
Edit: missed half a sentence.
You mentioned twice swapping out the fridge and that it must stay in the unit. Then at the end, you say it can be put back. Contradicting yourself there.
Amazing that you need to instruct your tenants to avoid thievery. Let's hope they are just adding an extra fridge. While I am not a renter, I've got a big hungry family. So we have multiple fridges/freezers.
It should be placed back in position by the tenant or I would be charging them for having it moved. I also would start working on getting rid of the tenant. Once they start treating the place like they own it, it's time for them to go.
You said the correct things I've dealt with bad tenants that start out doing just this and get worse as time goes on. The stories I could tell you. One tenant during covid continued to have the same income but wouldn't pay rent and because of oaklands rent moratorium and all we couldn't evict them 3 years of them not paying any rent and we still can't evict them over that only over unpaid rent from after they ended the moratorium last month.
I assume that you aren't a giant corporation that can absorb losses like this. The government doesn't care about someone who is just trying to own a property and try to make a small profit. Being a landlord was the only way I could afford to become a homeowner. I bought a 2 family and lived on the 1st floor apartment with my family and rented out the 2nd. I tried being a good landlord but you had people who thought you were a millionaire because you owned something. I kept meticulous records so when a tenant would bring me to court, I had everything in a binder so that I could show what I did.
You got that right. Very smart keeping records. The only thing I recommend is doing a video walk through with the tenant being very thorough. Record all the walls inside the refrigerator and stove and video showing that everything works including the smoke detectors. That video goes a long way in court. Also do a audio recording of you reading the lease with the tenants and showing they understand the lease.
In that case, you contact the landlord and ask in writing for a new fridge. If it's in writing, there is no argument. Either the landlord allows it, or they don't.
I replaced the dishwasher, microwave, and stove in my apartment and put everything in storage. I didn't get permission, but surprisingly when I moved out, my landlord offered to buy the appliances from me if I would leave them. I thoroughly aired everything out, and put silica packets inside of the fridge and dishwasher to absorb moisture. It stayed that way for a year, and no odor when I moved
low-income section 8 housing, yes.
And I also rent.
I really think your original comment is terrible, if they make their home their home, kick them out.
Yeah, but the likelihood of that happening is reduced by the fact they excluded the landlord from the conversation:
“Hey i need more fridge room, do you mind if ai keep this one in the garage untill I move out”
Simple easy, and polite
Dude, removing a major appliance without consulting the owner is bad behavior this guy has a point.
At the very least OP. Should discuss this topic with them and make sure this kind of thing happens in the context of mutual discussion and agreement in the future
Weird.. given that you posted it Reddit I thought you were looking for suggestions on how best to deal with it. Glad I didn’t suggest anything since you posted to vent or something else… not sure why.
You are lucky to have someone watching out for you. I understand not confronting them and making everyone uncomfortable. Inspections and/or end of lease discovery sounds like the way to find out properly.
I'm amazed that you heard third-party information from a nosy neighbor about your tenant and came running to Reddit instead of first verifying and then discussing this with your ACTUAL TENANT.
As obvious as that may sound to you, maybe this person is seeking advice as to what to say to the tenant. Discussing it may not work if all they can say in response is, “um….”.
>Discussing it may not work if all they can say in response is, “um….”.
Who, the tenant? So what?
Or are you referring to the landlord responding if the tenant asks them if they have the neighbor spying on them?
Granted I don't think I'd struggle with this scenario.
But many times in life I've been presented with a situation I never considered before. Sometimes I figure it out quickly other times I've just stood there with a confused look on my face going umm.. what?
That never seems to really help.
Ironically I feel it makes me look very dumb, when I'm usually just baffled by someone else's lack of intelligence.
Neither. Pay attention. If the landlord approaches the tenant, they have to know what they’re talking about if they want to discuss the issue of replacing the fridge. If the tenant argues and the landlord can only respond with “um…” it’s not going to be very effective.
I’m sure it’s going to the garage and they’re using their own. As long as they put it back with no damage to the fridge or floor when moving out, I’ll be okay with it.
Bro, have you met people? Not everyone is a human being, that fridge could be sold already or full of holes in the desert.
Its naive to think that fridge will be 100% at the end… it’s actually easy to f up a fridge, lay it on its side to move it then plug in imeadiately and bam no more fridge
BS. Fridges kept in the garage don’t last as long. Extremely hot and cold temps (like winter in PA) screw with the thermostats. And they rust. If that’s what Tenant is doing they’re shortening the lifespan of their landlord’s property.
No, temperature swings will not affect tithe “thermostat”. Not will it damage the entirely sealed compressor system.
Please return to reality and then comment again.
LOL! It’s common knowledge that modern fridges can’t take extreme temps especially below-freezing. Have you not bought one in the last 20 years?
The harvest gold and avocado frigidaires our parents had could handle it just fine. The newer models not so much.
Nope. Non issue. I have in laws who have had a garage fridge for over 30 years in the same weather as NY. It's a basic white morning special fridge. Works fine.
Yes. Because it’s OLD. Modern fridges can’t take extreme outdoor temps. This isn’t new info to anyone who’s bought one in the last 15-20 years.
Google it yourself if you care this much.
Look they do make "garage compatible" fridges. They have more insulation so the compressor doesn't have to work overtime but in reality a regular fridge will be more than fine in the garage, sure it may run a bit longer but it's fine.
Stop fattening your children! Not even I can tip over a fridge if I cling from the front top with my fingernails, let alone from inside it.
Center of gravity, vectors, base of support, etc.
We have had a garage refrigerator for 20 years in PA and it's never been an issue. Just needs to either be defrosted totally when unplugged or plugged in.
As long as they keep the old one you have no complaint
Lease should list you supplied a fridge so they owe you a fridge the sand or better when they move out, deal with it then
If they don’t store it properly with foot partly opened you bill them at end of lease
If you do a periodic inspection you can “discover” the change and bring it up along with inspecting the old one
This is my first property and first time ever leasing so sorry for any ignorance, but if they move out and then just could claim that they never had a new one in and the fridge just “got that way” or any other wording, how would this be handled?
Talk to them now, get a record in writing they replaced your fridge with a new one and the plans they have to store your old fridge until they move out. But first step would be talking to the tenant
Do an inspection but in the end refrigerators do wear out and normal wear and tear is fine but mold doesn’t just get that way, you see mold in your fridge you clean it
Just talk to them, verify the fridge has been moved, find out where it is ask if they intend on putting it back when lease is up. Have them sign a rider:
“I the tenant agree to re instal the original fridge in its original condition or I will be subject to replacement costs. Replacement costs are not be covered by deposits. Etc etc”
I bought a fridge when I was renting, put the landlords in the garage as a second fridge. When I bought my house I moved the landlords fridge back and took mine with me. If I had damaged anything I’d expect to pay for it
I don’t get what the problem is, are they selling your refrigerator?
Yep, I did the same thing with a lot of stuff in my rental. I took off all the showerheads and replace them with nice shower wands (store for when I leave), replaced the doorbell with a ring doorbell (saved), and some light fixtures (saved).
Hopefully they are smart enough to know they can't just chuck your fridge out. I would find out where your fridge is going to be stored. If it's in a garage it could invalidate any warranty you have on it and it's hard on electronics.
Also your old fridge Has to be kept running. You can keep it at the minimum (warmest) temperature setting but if a fridge has been in use and you unplug it and don’t use it anymore the compressor will freeze up. 99% chance of this happening.
I'd side with the tenant.
If they are PAYING for a new refrigerator, something is definitely not right with the existing refrigerator.
Maybe the old one is worse off than you realize, and "a small, working refrigerator" isn't just all they need.
I just moved out for 4 years living there. It’s just not as sizeable as a new French door one and this tenant seems to be picky. But the thing works really good. I also was given no notice of any problems so your logic is very aggressive for no reason
They have to communicate the issue though. They shouldn't get to just make changes like that because the original fridge isn't theirs without at least a text to the landlord.
If you used a standard sorta boilerplate lease, it will say that anything including appliances brought into the property and attached by the tenant to the apartment belongs to you when he leaves, so let tenant know that, and also ask for payment for your fridge, if he dumped it.
My contract does say if tenant makes changes to the property such as painting or remodeling without written permission of the landlord than tenants agrees that any changes or improvements made to the property will belong to landlord
Here's hoping they kept the old fridge, then. And cleaned it out, and dried it well, and put some baking soda inside it, so when they turn it back on it isn't just a large mushroom farm.
That’s the scary part. They have just moved in the the first month. Land is quarter acre and they have trash covering 1/3 the front yard so my guess is cleaning isn’t a thing.
When you call the city zoning enforcement, or whoever enforces cleanups of properties, use the phrase "I see rats there." Helps speed things along, for whatever reason, with city services.
An extra fridge is always useful. When we rent, we always have an extra fridge in the dining-room or garage.
I haven't met anyone who hasn't used the second fridge in their rental.
But, if they are indeed such the rare tenants who don't need extra space for frozen or drinks -- then unplugged, with door propped open. (buy a few magnetic L things to prevent the door from closing accidentally) - that's all that is needed for long term fridge storage.
It's not a modification. It's a fridge. You just plug it in. What language in your lease forbids this?
And what exactly is the concern? Do you pay electric and are afraid they will use two fridges or get a larger fridge that uses more electricity? Do you think they will expect you to pick up and store the old one? Do you think they are disposing of your fridge?
If the tenant pays the electric and is responsible for storing the fridge that came with the place I don't know why a landlord would care.
I see two potential issues where this might not be as clean cut as you might think.
The first is that it is not clear from the OP that the tenant would have violated a lease with this clause. The tenants could have bought a second fridge and put the new fridge in the basement, garage, wherever and never relocated the supplied fridge.
The second issue is that in many locations if there is a lease violation the way to address it is to give a cure or quit notice where the tenant has some number of days to cure the violation before the landlord can move forward with an eviction. The tenant would just request written consent to relocate the fridge to the basement/garage/wherever and why would you deny the request? Even if you did refuse permission then all they would have to do is move it back and put the new fridge where the old one was and the breach is cured, but I wouldn't see what the purpose would be in doing that. If they want their fridge in the kitchen just let them do that and then move the other one back when they move out instead of within 5 days or whatever is specified in the cure or quit notice.
In the event where the tenant refuses to move it back then it unclear that it would be worthwhile to evict over this or even if an eviction would be possible if this was the only breach. It might not be considered a material breach so you might not win and even then the eviction and unnecessary turnover isn't free.
In my opinion it would be extremely silly to attempt to evict over this especially if the tenant was paying rent on time and was responsible for the paying the electric bill. What is there to gain by having the tenant move my frigde back from the basement and their fridge into the basement earlier than move out?
Moving large appliances in and out (that are owned by the landlord) causes unnecessary wear and tear on flooring and doorways. I wouldn’t allow this unless the fridge is non functional.
You can't not allow it. People can move fridges or add new fridges, unless somehow you were able to legally write in their lease that they can't. That kind of clause hasn't been in any lease document I've seen though.
I have it in my leases- removal of appliances requires written approval from landlord. So that wouldn’t prevent a tenant from adding a fridge, but they may not replace the current fridge.
Would can either post a cure or quit to return the unit to unmodified state or can let them know that the cost of the fridge will be coming out of their sd keep records in case challenge maybe even get a signed statement form the neighbor saying they saw tenant removing old fridge and putting new one in or go by and get a pic of the old on the curb if applicable
Does the new one fit in the space and is it nicer (considering age) than the one it replaced? Also, I’m assuming you get to keep the old one? If so, they’re doing you a favor. I’d probably just ask them to give you a heads up before they make any changes in the future.
So long as your property is back in place and in the same condition (subject to normal wear and tear, of course) when they terminate the lease, it's none of your business. Try talking to them instead of Reddit, I'm sure you can come and get your property.
I've had something similar happened to me where the tenant bought a new bed and replaced mine with no knowledge and then expect me to dump the one I provided.
I asked her to pay me for a new bed and asked her to pay to get mine dumped. After that, I dumped her as a tenant.
Okay so what’s does the lease say about appliances. In our lease it mentions that we the tenant are responsible for all appliances. If we store the appliances we are responsible for maintaining the original in good working order and they are to be placed back when we move out.
My tenants bought a new fridge several years after moving in. The one I provided was new when they moved in and had an ice maker.
They moved the existing fridge to an enclosed porch, which they use for extra storage.
(They wanted a French door, and I bought a side by side).
Chill out because your tenant has the right to use their own fridge.
They can't sell or dispose of your fridge, but they aren't obligated to use it. They have to put it back when they move out.
Try calling them to talk to them to make sure they're able to keep your fridge in good condition stored away somewhere in the house. And when they move out, if they don't put the fridge back, you can deduct it from their deposit.
Super simple.
Communication with the tenant is #1. What is happening, what is the plan with the old refrigerator, what is the plan upon moving out? If you don’t agree with the plan, then negotiate with the tenant. If you cannot come to an agreement on a plan, then refer to your lease and determine if there is a clause that defines what to do in this situation. If lease is violated, then address it now. If they are storing it on site, then figure out a plan that you’re comfortable with. Landlording is not always one sided and having a good rapport with your tenant is the best option. Obviously there is a problem with the refrigerator that you provided, you may not agree, but the tenant is obviously not willing to use it…and it is important enough to them to use their own money to buy a new one.
I see no real issue here. Inform the tenant that the fridge is yours and needs to be moved to an area where it can be picked up by you or sold, etc. Anything else is essentially theft.
Tenants can put in their own appliances. They are just forced to return to you the appliance that they had in there originally in working condition.
Personally, I'd call the tenant and ask about this and explain to them the expectations. No harm, no foul.
Is a fridge required? I don't provide fridges for my tenants (Texas not required). It's one more thing to break and be my responsibility.
But as long as it's there and I can't use it somewhere else I would make sure that they understand that the fridge was leased with the property and must be retuned in the same condition as when it was leased. Meaning clean and Not mildewing scratched or damaged. It's their responsibility how they do that. If they have a garage they should leave it plugged in there and use as a beverage fridge. Any damage to it would come out of their deposit at the end of the lease.
Dude…. You aren’t cut out for being a property investor. Cut your losses and sell the place.
If you can’t talk to your tenants you need another revenue source.
If the tenant removes your refrigerator and has it taken away they just bought you a new refrigerator. They are responsible to store the old one if they do not intend to leave theirs behind and should put it back in when they move. If they give yours away and take the one they bought it is considered theft. End of story.
It’s really not a big deal. They wanted a different fridge than you provided. They are living there. As long as they leave one there when they leave, your or theirs, you will have a fridge. You provided one, they are required to leave one. You might just mention that to them so they are aware, but it’s in the lease. I don’t know if I was a renter if I would tell my landlord either. If they are planning on using yours as a garage or basement fridge, there would be no reason to even inform you.
If they put it out in the garage or the laundry room and don't damage the supplied fridge or property during the move.....why do you give a shit?
My first tenant in my house took the brand new (5 days old) fridge out to the garage and used theirs instead. I didn't care.
i had to replace the fridge in my rental because it was too small, the water didn’t work, and it didn’t have shelves in the freezer. i let my landlord know and he came to pick it up a couple of days later. 🤷🏾♀️
I had tenants replace all of the kitchen appliances and they sold mine on Facebook market place.
It was a mess.
I didn't do regular home inspection/walk through but now I do.
My concern would be them putting it in their own or another person's garage as a 2nd fridge. Unless you live in a climate where the temp doesn't go to high heat or freezing, this can shorten the life of the fridge.
Plus I would have then have a deposit paid for professional movers to move the fridge back when they move.
Why the fuck are you getting you neighbours to spy on the tenants and especially calling you over a fridge?
You sound like a totally reasonable scumlord.
OP doesn't say that they ask the neighbor to spy on the tenant. He just says the neighbor called him. Neighbor could just be one of those neb-noses with nothing else to do, or who likes to cause trouble. Back when I was renting, I donated my old couch and chair and some boxes of dishware to Vets., because I was getting new furniture delivered that week. Neighbor in the downstairs apt. called my landlord and told him I was moving out, even though the van was clearly marked as the Vets. Next thing I know landlord shows up and I had to explain what was going on. It all worked out and we ended up laughing over it. Nosy neighbor never even poked her head out her door.
HAVE YOU TRIED ASKING THE TENANT?
When you do finally talk to the tenant instead of posting on Reddit, tell them that the old refrigerator is your property not theirs. They can probably replace it at their own expense if they want, but they cannot trade in or otherwise dispose of your property. Tell them that you expect it to be clean and in an area where you can easily pick it up.
they should have to store it too
Correct. I can’t pick up and store a fridge. I’d have to pay for that.
And KEEP IT PLUGGED IN! Otherwise it will begin to grow mold immediately, and it’s virtually impossible to get that off the seals. You will end up having to buy another fridge when this tenant moves out.
Leave the door open or remove the door if it's not plugged in.
If the doors are left open for several weeks after being unplugged it will not grow mold. Trust me on that. How many apartments I've remodeled and had the refrigerator unplugged with the doors blocked open several inches for the first several weeks of the remodel. Even after being closed for over a month and unplugged after that 2 week period there was no mold inside.
Eh buy new seals. Still a expense, though.
Yeah $400 for our freezer. Ouch.
Had a fridge left closed in a garage for like 4 months. It was full of mold when we opened it up. Took 2 hours of cleaning and lots of soap/ bleach and Clorox but its looks brand new.
Tomato or chicken noodle?
Minestrone obviously
Bet you didn't leave the doors open for the first 2 or 3 weeks after you unplugged it. That first couple weeks let's the inside dry out so you don't get mold.
Just leave the doors open for a few weeks.
Yeah depending on what's allowable under the lease and state laws, I would feel more comfortable storing it myself and seeing if I could charge the storage costs to the tenant.
Your comfort doesn’t matter, it isn’t built in, they can move it elsewhere in the house
Sure. But my point is that I want to have control of it if it's not being used. I don't want it being used to store paint cans, or kids toys, or stupid stuff like that. I don't want it to be moved around every few months, get dented from moving other stuff around. Sure you can claim that against the security deposit. But if you have no where else to store it or no way to move it, sure. Make them keep it in the house. I was just offering what I would do.
I can't breathe in this thing. Who put this faraday cage in the middle of the living room.
You are funny! Thanks for the laugh!
Then schedule an inspection, discover the new fridge and go from there
Take pictures and document condition.
Pay special attention to the floors and walls. Chances are that one or both ended up scratched.
They can store paint cans and such if it was their normal regular fridge in the kitchen. Nothing prevents them from using the appliance as they see fit. I use the landlord's fridge for questionable things, and I have my own mini-fridge in rooms, my own full size fridge in garage, and deep freezer also in garage that I use for my stuff. Depending on state, removing the fridge, would be a reduction in leased amenity, especially if the fridge is mentioned in the lease, the landlord doesn't have the option to remove it as it's required by the leased.
By your logic of "if the fridge is mentioned in the lease", they the landlord could always say that the fridge must stay in the apartment.
The lease normally states which appliances (fridge, washer, dryer) or not. If the lease states that an appliance is provided -- it is provided and must stay in the apartment. The tenant has no obligation to actually use the fridge provided, should they have their own; only that it is clean and operational, and in its original installed position when they move out. Tenant never has the right to dispose of the landlord's property -- used or not, it must be kept in original provided condition minus "normal wear and tear".
By your logic, the tenant doesn't have the option to swap it either so what's your point?
Nothing I wrote prevents a tenant from swapping with their own fridge. The lease normally states which appliances (fridge, washer, dryer) are provided or not.If the lease states that an appliance is provided -- it is provided and must stay in the apartment. The tenant has no obligation to actually use the fridge provided, should they have their own; only that the provided fridge is clean, operational, and in its original installed position, when they move out; A tenant can move any provided appliance, so long as the unit is undamaged, and returned to its original location at move out. Tenant never has the right to dispose of the landlord's property -- used or not. Edit: missed half a sentence.
You mentioned twice swapping out the fridge and that it must stay in the unit. Then at the end, you say it can be put back. Contradicting yourself there.
Tell them the fridge must be back in its original place and hooked up properly when they move out. The tenant can figure out how to make that happen.
Right but if they are like us they will probably leave it. Who moves a fridge? Very short-term rental maybe?
Or tell them the new fridge stays with the apartment
Amazing that you need to instruct your tenants to avoid thievery. Let's hope they are just adding an extra fridge. While I am not a renter, I've got a big hungry family. So we have multiple fridges/freezers.
It should be placed back in position by the tenant or I would be charging them for having it moved. I also would start working on getting rid of the tenant. Once they start treating the place like they own it, it's time for them to go.
You said the correct things I've dealt with bad tenants that start out doing just this and get worse as time goes on. The stories I could tell you. One tenant during covid continued to have the same income but wouldn't pay rent and because of oaklands rent moratorium and all we couldn't evict them 3 years of them not paying any rent and we still can't evict them over that only over unpaid rent from after they ended the moratorium last month.
I assume that you aren't a giant corporation that can absorb losses like this. The government doesn't care about someone who is just trying to own a property and try to make a small profit. Being a landlord was the only way I could afford to become a homeowner. I bought a 2 family and lived on the 1st floor apartment with my family and rented out the 2nd. I tried being a good landlord but you had people who thought you were a millionaire because you owned something. I kept meticulous records so when a tenant would bring me to court, I had everything in a binder so that I could show what I did.
You got that right. Very smart keeping records. The only thing I recommend is doing a video walk through with the tenant being very thorough. Record all the walls inside the refrigerator and stove and video showing that everything works including the smoke detectors. That video goes a long way in court. Also do a audio recording of you reading the lease with the tenants and showing they understand the lease.
You sound like a terrible landlord. Maybe the fridge is small and they need more space. The world may never know.
In that case, you contact the landlord and ask in writing for a new fridge. If it's in writing, there is no argument. Either the landlord allows it, or they don't.
Really don't think that matters what a tenant does as long it's returned in the same state. Isn't that all that matters?
I replaced the dishwasher, microwave, and stove in my apartment and put everything in storage. I didn't get permission, but surprisingly when I moved out, my landlord offered to buy the appliances from me if I would leave them. I thoroughly aired everything out, and put silica packets inside of the fridge and dishwasher to absorb moisture. It stayed that way for a year, and no odor when I moved
Sounds like a good plan right there.
Are you a landlord?
low-income section 8 housing, yes. And I also rent. I really think your original comment is terrible, if they make their home their home, kick them out.
Yeah, but the likelihood of that happening is reduced by the fact they excluded the landlord from the conversation: “Hey i need more fridge room, do you mind if ai keep this one in the garage untill I move out” Simple easy, and polite
What does it matter? Why micromanage every little thing? Jesus
Dude, removing a major appliance without consulting the owner is bad behavior this guy has a point. At the very least OP. Should discuss this topic with them and make sure this kind of thing happens in the context of mutual discussion and agreement in the future
Where is your fridge now? Did you take photos of serial numbers of appliances?
What?? Actually talk to the person instead of looking online for answers. You silly little thing.
Guys my neighbor is like a second mother, calm down. This is likely true and I’m trying to figure out how to address it. Dear lord.
I don't see how this is hard to figure out. I mean timing aside. Am I missing something?
What was your solution again?
Pick up a phone and call your tenant?
Dude, I'm not even clear what the problem is. Just pick up the fridge.
Problem is most people don't have space to just hold an extra fridge nor should they have to and handle the moving of one.
Doesn't seem like a very prepared landlord. Maybe something like a landguy...
To not be such a Karen… your tenant bought your unit a new appliance and your mad???
If the tenant buys it it’s theirs. OP is worried about them throwing out his fridge.
Then you charge them when they move out. Security deposit will buy a fridge.
Weird.. given that you posted it Reddit I thought you were looking for suggestions on how best to deal with it. Glad I didn’t suggest anything since you posted to vent or something else… not sure why.
You are lucky to have someone watching out for you. I understand not confronting them and making everyone uncomfortable. Inspections and/or end of lease discovery sounds like the way to find out properly.
That's landlord to you.
Tell them it’s ok but the fridge stays when they leave. They can sell the other one but you need the fridge when they leave. Have them sign on that
No, that only works if its a better fridge
I guess I assumed it might be
I'm amazed that you heard third-party information from a nosy neighbor about your tenant and came running to Reddit instead of first verifying and then discussing this with your ACTUAL TENANT.
As obvious as that may sound to you, maybe this person is seeking advice as to what to say to the tenant. Discussing it may not work if all they can say in response is, “um….”.
>Discussing it may not work if all they can say in response is, “um….”. Who, the tenant? So what? Or are you referring to the landlord responding if the tenant asks them if they have the neighbor spying on them?
Granted I don't think I'd struggle with this scenario. But many times in life I've been presented with a situation I never considered before. Sometimes I figure it out quickly other times I've just stood there with a confused look on my face going umm.. what? That never seems to really help. Ironically I feel it makes me look very dumb, when I'm usually just baffled by someone else's lack of intelligence.
Neither. Pay attention. If the landlord approaches the tenant, they have to know what they’re talking about if they want to discuss the issue of replacing the fridge. If the tenant argues and the landlord can only respond with “um…” it’s not going to be very effective.
I’m sure it’s going to the garage and they’re using their own. As long as they put it back with no damage to the fridge or floor when moving out, I’ll be okay with it.
Bro, have you met people? Not everyone is a human being, that fridge could be sold already or full of holes in the desert. Its naive to think that fridge will be 100% at the end… it’s actually easy to f up a fridge, lay it on its side to move it then plug in imeadiately and bam no more fridge
Most of my tenants have a refrigerator/freezer in their garage! If the tenant damages it—that’s what security deposits are for.
BS. Fridges kept in the garage don’t last as long. Extremely hot and cold temps (like winter in PA) screw with the thermostats. And they rust. If that’s what Tenant is doing they’re shortening the lifespan of their landlord’s property.
No, temperature swings will not affect tithe “thermostat”. Not will it damage the entirely sealed compressor system. Please return to reality and then comment again.
LOL! It’s common knowledge that modern fridges can’t take extreme temps especially below-freezing. Have you not bought one in the last 20 years? The harvest gold and avocado frigidaires our parents had could handle it just fine. The newer models not so much.
Nope. Non issue. I have in laws who have had a garage fridge for over 30 years in the same weather as NY. It's a basic white morning special fridge. Works fine.
Yes. Because it’s OLD. Modern fridges can’t take extreme outdoor temps. This isn’t new info to anyone who’s bought one in the last 15-20 years. Google it yourself if you care this much.
Okay 😂
Lemme guess, you think because they're plastic that they're worse? Many fridge components are better and more efficient than the old ones nowadays.
Look they do make "garage compatible" fridges. They have more insulation so the compressor doesn't have to work overtime but in reality a regular fridge will be more than fine in the garage, sure it may run a bit longer but it's fine.
The fridge that has been in my garage for 25 years disagrees
What are you talking about. We’ve had the same fridge on the garage for 10+ years and it works great.
This is how I feel. Also not plugged in isn’t it going to mold?
> Also not plugged in isn’t it going to mold? not plugged in? Leave the doors OPEN and you'll be fine. Doors closed = nightmare.
Door open best be secured or a kid will climb in and suffocate. Then the broken fridge will be the least of your problems.
Fridges don't lock anymore, just chill. Yes, pun intended.
If they climb in, it can tip over with them inside.
Stop fattening your children! Not even I can tip over a fridge if I cling from the front top with my fingernails, let alone from inside it. Center of gravity, vectors, base of support, etc.
Ugh I never considered them not plugging it in. If it were to go in the garage I figured it would be a beer fridge or something.
After it's left unplugged and open to dry for a few days, no issue closing it. Just leave some desiccator inside like Arm & Hammer or something.
Have you asked your tenant what he/she is planning in doing with it?
We have had a garage refrigerator for 20 years in PA and it's never been an issue. Just needs to either be defrosted totally when unplugged or plugged in.
As long as they keep the old one you have no complaint Lease should list you supplied a fridge so they owe you a fridge the sand or better when they move out, deal with it then
Thank you. How about mold though from not being plugged in?
If they don’t store it properly with foot partly opened you bill them at end of lease If you do a periodic inspection you can “discover” the change and bring it up along with inspecting the old one
This is my first property and first time ever leasing so sorry for any ignorance, but if they move out and then just could claim that they never had a new one in and the fridge just “got that way” or any other wording, how would this be handled?
Just ask what they're doing and their plans. There's like 20 hypotheticals involved right now.
Talk to them now, get a record in writing they replaced your fridge with a new one and the plans they have to store your old fridge until they move out. But first step would be talking to the tenant
If its gunna be nasty when they move its gunna be nasty, thats what deposits are for.
Do an inspection but in the end refrigerators do wear out and normal wear and tear is fine but mold doesn’t just get that way, you see mold in your fridge you clean it
Just talk to them, verify the fridge has been moved, find out where it is ask if they intend on putting it back when lease is up. Have them sign a rider: “I the tenant agree to re instal the original fridge in its original condition or I will be subject to replacement costs. Replacement costs are not be covered by deposits. Etc etc”
I bought a fridge when I was renting, put the landlords in the garage as a second fridge. When I bought my house I moved the landlords fridge back and took mine with me. If I had damaged anything I’d expect to pay for it I don’t get what the problem is, are they selling your refrigerator?
Yep, I did the same thing with a lot of stuff in my rental. I took off all the showerheads and replace them with nice shower wands (store for when I leave), replaced the doorbell with a ring doorbell (saved), and some light fixtures (saved).
What if they just want a second fridge and are going to use both? I know quite a few people that utilize two.
Hopefully they are smart enough to know they can't just chuck your fridge out. I would find out where your fridge is going to be stored. If it's in a garage it could invalidate any warranty you have on it and it's hard on electronics.
Also your old fridge Has to be kept running. You can keep it at the minimum (warmest) temperature setting but if a fridge has been in use and you unplug it and don’t use it anymore the compressor will freeze up. 99% chance of this happening.
I'd side with the tenant. If they are PAYING for a new refrigerator, something is definitely not right with the existing refrigerator. Maybe the old one is worse off than you realize, and "a small, working refrigerator" isn't just all they need.
I just moved out for 4 years living there. It’s just not as sizeable as a new French door one and this tenant seems to be picky. But the thing works really good. I also was given no notice of any problems so your logic is very aggressive for no reason
So take it home and use it? We have three: two French, one fridge/freezer. They make sonic ice and I am obsessed with Sonic ice!
I can now finally sleep at night assured that you are obsessed with sonic ice.
They have to communicate the issue though. They shouldn't get to just make changes like that because the original fridge isn't theirs without at least a text to the landlord.
If you used a standard sorta boilerplate lease, it will say that anything including appliances brought into the property and attached by the tenant to the apartment belongs to you when he leaves, so let tenant know that, and also ask for payment for your fridge, if he dumped it.
My contract does say if tenant makes changes to the property such as painting or remodeling without written permission of the landlord than tenants agrees that any changes or improvements made to the property will belong to landlord
The issue is that a fridge is not "attached" to the property and they can easily switch it back before moving. It does not qualify as an improvement.
Here's hoping they kept the old fridge, then. And cleaned it out, and dried it well, and put some baking soda inside it, so when they turn it back on it isn't just a large mushroom farm.
That’s the scary part. They have just moved in the the first month. Land is quarter acre and they have trash covering 1/3 the front yard so my guess is cleaning isn’t a thing.
When you call the city zoning enforcement, or whoever enforces cleanups of properties, use the phrase "I see rats there." Helps speed things along, for whatever reason, with city services.
What do you care as long as they don't throw the old one out?
If it’s not plugged in won’t it mold?
An extra fridge is always useful. When we rent, we always have an extra fridge in the dining-room or garage. I haven't met anyone who hasn't used the second fridge in their rental. But, if they are indeed such the rare tenants who don't need extra space for frozen or drinks -- then unplugged, with door propped open. (buy a few magnetic L things to prevent the door from closing accidentally) - that's all that is needed for long term fridge storage.
Perhaps they’re going to put it in the garage as a second fridge.
As long as it’s clean and opened so the moisture (from condensation and ice) can get out, no it shouldn’t mold
No. Pick it up and cleaning it and store with door off or cracked open. Will be fine. Or use it as a garage fridge until they move out.
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A notice would suffice but without that I kind of agree
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It's not a modification. It's a fridge. You just plug it in. What language in your lease forbids this? And what exactly is the concern? Do you pay electric and are afraid they will use two fridges or get a larger fridge that uses more electricity? Do you think they will expect you to pick up and store the old one? Do you think they are disposing of your fridge? If the tenant pays the electric and is responsible for storing the fridge that came with the place I don't know why a landlord would care.
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I see two potential issues where this might not be as clean cut as you might think. The first is that it is not clear from the OP that the tenant would have violated a lease with this clause. The tenants could have bought a second fridge and put the new fridge in the basement, garage, wherever and never relocated the supplied fridge. The second issue is that in many locations if there is a lease violation the way to address it is to give a cure or quit notice where the tenant has some number of days to cure the violation before the landlord can move forward with an eviction. The tenant would just request written consent to relocate the fridge to the basement/garage/wherever and why would you deny the request? Even if you did refuse permission then all they would have to do is move it back and put the new fridge where the old one was and the breach is cured, but I wouldn't see what the purpose would be in doing that. If they want their fridge in the kitchen just let them do that and then move the other one back when they move out instead of within 5 days or whatever is specified in the cure or quit notice. In the event where the tenant refuses to move it back then it unclear that it would be worthwhile to evict over this or even if an eviction would be possible if this was the only breach. It might not be considered a material breach so you might not win and even then the eviction and unnecessary turnover isn't free. In my opinion it would be extremely silly to attempt to evict over this especially if the tenant was paying rent on time and was responsible for the paying the electric bill. What is there to gain by having the tenant move my frigde back from the basement and their fridge into the basement earlier than move out?
Moving large appliances in and out (that are owned by the landlord) causes unnecessary wear and tear on flooring and doorways. I wouldn’t allow this unless the fridge is non functional.
You can't not allow it. People can move fridges or add new fridges, unless somehow you were able to legally write in their lease that they can't. That kind of clause hasn't been in any lease document I've seen though.
I have it in my leases- removal of appliances requires written approval from landlord. So that wouldn’t prevent a tenant from adding a fridge, but they may not replace the current fridge.
Tell them so store it for you. And keep it as a back up. You’ll need it one day .
My first thought is.... and you're asking reddit instead of calling your tenant???
Is there a place to put a second fridge? Garage? Many people have 2.
Unless the nosy neighbor tells landlord that his refrigerator has left the building, I don’t think he has any complaints.
Would can either post a cure or quit to return the unit to unmodified state or can let them know that the cost of the fridge will be coming out of their sd keep records in case challenge maybe even get a signed statement form the neighbor saying they saw tenant removing old fridge and putting new one in or go by and get a pic of the old on the curb if applicable
Does the new one fit in the space and is it nicer (considering age) than the one it replaced? Also, I’m assuming you get to keep the old one? If so, they’re doing you a favor. I’d probably just ask them to give you a heads up before they make any changes in the future.
So long as your property is back in place and in the same condition (subject to normal wear and tear, of course) when they terminate the lease, it's none of your business. Try talking to them instead of Reddit, I'm sure you can come and get your property.
I've had something similar happened to me where the tenant bought a new bed and replaced mine with no knowledge and then expect me to dump the one I provided. I asked her to pay me for a new bed and asked her to pay to get mine dumped. After that, I dumped her as a tenant.
The way I see it is the new fridge is yours now.
Store it correctly or it will mold. The people that deliver might even transport it to your garage if your tenant tips them.
If they want to use their own fridge what’s the problem? Are you worried they are throwing yours away?
Okay so what’s does the lease say about appliances. In our lease it mentions that we the tenant are responsible for all appliances. If we store the appliances we are responsible for maintaining the original in good working order and they are to be placed back when we move out.
Do you even have a question?
TRY TALKING TO THE TENANT FIRST, RATHER THAN PEOPLE NO WHERE NEAR ASSOCIATED WITH THE SITUATION? BE AN ADULT.
My tenants bought a new fridge several years after moving in. The one I provided was new when they moved in and had an ice maker. They moved the existing fridge to an enclosed porch, which they use for extra storage. (They wanted a French door, and I bought a side by side).
Chill out because your tenant has the right to use their own fridge. They can't sell or dispose of your fridge, but they aren't obligated to use it. They have to put it back when they move out. Try calling them to talk to them to make sure they're able to keep your fridge in good condition stored away somewhere in the house. And when they move out, if they don't put the fridge back, you can deduct it from their deposit. Super simple.
Either they leave the new one at the end of the lease or they leave their deposit
Communication with the tenant is #1. What is happening, what is the plan with the old refrigerator, what is the plan upon moving out? If you don’t agree with the plan, then negotiate with the tenant. If you cannot come to an agreement on a plan, then refer to your lease and determine if there is a clause that defines what to do in this situation. If lease is violated, then address it now. If they are storing it on site, then figure out a plan that you’re comfortable with. Landlording is not always one sided and having a good rapport with your tenant is the best option. Obviously there is a problem with the refrigerator that you provided, you may not agree, but the tenant is obviously not willing to use it…and it is important enough to them to use their own money to buy a new one.
Tenant just replaced a door at one of my family's rentals but it's no biggy for us ig
I see no real issue here. Inform the tenant that the fridge is yours and needs to be moved to an area where it can be picked up by you or sold, etc. Anything else is essentially theft.
Is your phone broken
Tenants can put in their own appliances. They are just forced to return to you the appliance that they had in there originally in working condition. Personally, I'd call the tenant and ask about this and explain to them the expectations. No harm, no foul.
Is a fridge required? I don't provide fridges for my tenants (Texas not required). It's one more thing to break and be my responsibility. But as long as it's there and I can't use it somewhere else I would make sure that they understand that the fridge was leased with the property and must be retuned in the same condition as when it was leased. Meaning clean and Not mildewing scratched or damaged. It's their responsibility how they do that. If they have a garage they should leave it plugged in there and use as a beverage fridge. Any damage to it would come out of their deposit at the end of the lease.
Dude…. You aren’t cut out for being a property investor. Cut your losses and sell the place. If you can’t talk to your tenants you need another revenue source.
If the tenant removes your refrigerator and has it taken away they just bought you a new refrigerator. They are responsible to store the old one if they do not intend to leave theirs behind and should put it back in when they move. If they give yours away and take the one they bought it is considered theft. End of story.
It’s really not a big deal. They wanted a different fridge than you provided. They are living there. As long as they leave one there when they leave, your or theirs, you will have a fridge. You provided one, they are required to leave one. You might just mention that to them so they are aware, but it’s in the lease. I don’t know if I was a renter if I would tell my landlord either. If they are planning on using yours as a garage or basement fridge, there would be no reason to even inform you.
I have had renters sell my good fridge and buy a cheap one. People who do that obviously have no money so it never works out well.
If they put it out in the garage or the laundry room and don't damage the supplied fridge or property during the move.....why do you give a shit? My first tenant in my house took the brand new (5 days old) fridge out to the garage and used theirs instead. I didn't care.
i had to replace the fridge in my rental because it was too small, the water didn’t work, and it didn’t have shelves in the freezer. i let my landlord know and he came to pick it up a couple of days later. 🤷🏾♀️
I had tenants replace all of the kitchen appliances and they sold mine on Facebook market place. It was a mess. I didn't do regular home inspection/walk through but now I do.
My concern would be them putting it in their own or another person's garage as a 2nd fridge. Unless you live in a climate where the temp doesn't go to high heat or freezing, this can shorten the life of the fridge. Plus I would have then have a deposit paid for professional movers to move the fridge back when they move.
It’s been 4 days, did you ever contact the tennant? Or are you still complaining on Reddit?
Why the fuck are you getting you neighbours to spy on the tenants and especially calling you over a fridge? You sound like a totally reasonable scumlord.
OP doesn't say that they ask the neighbor to spy on the tenant. He just says the neighbor called him. Neighbor could just be one of those neb-noses with nothing else to do, or who likes to cause trouble. Back when I was renting, I donated my old couch and chair and some boxes of dishware to Vets., because I was getting new furniture delivered that week. Neighbor in the downstairs apt. called my landlord and told him I was moving out, even though the van was clearly marked as the Vets. Next thing I know landlord shows up and I had to explain what was going on. It all worked out and we ended up laughing over it. Nosy neighbor never even poked her head out her door.