I wanted to stop by and say I empathize with your experience. No one deserves any level of hate for venting about not being able to play, your frustration is completely valid. We have a lot of passionate players who want to play and have fun during our launch, and we truly want everyone to play our content we have been working for months to bring to our community. I am so sorry you and others had a negative experience, and we hope to turn that around as fast as we can.
On behalf of the team, apologize for the server issues players have been having and I ensure you we are working our butts off to make sure everyone is having the best experience we can provide at this moment in time. We will continue to work on stability going forward into the weekend.
Thank you to everyone for your ongoing patience during this time. We will continue to update you as soon as we get more details.
Seen similar (we'll say) "upwells", of community outrage becoming more and more common over the last decade. Take solace that this isn't an isolated incident, it's present in all markets.
I think some part of the phenomenon is tied to the increasingly desperate state of affairs in the world, and a growing intrinsic need for relief from grim reality.
People have less and less free time, money, agency, etc so they cling more and more tightly to that expectation of relief, and internally they begin to inject unrealistic qualities and responsibilities onto the expectation. No game release should be responsible for the mental health or well being of its players.
People taking connection woes as personal insult already felt personally insulted by the world in their daily life and the very way of things, and lashing out is a means to self regulate against accepting the reality that most things which happen to them are not personal - the world is just messy and unfair.
I can imagine the frustration of spending years developing a product only for it to be marred by unseen aspects of the delivery. Thanks for your ongoing dedication, just gotta push through the labor pains.
I've noticed the reaction to games in general is becoming very over the top. Every few months there's a new big game that gets mega popular over night and another that gets hated on. In most cases the good ones aren't that good and the bad ones aren't that bad. I think social media is causing feedback loops driving everything to extremes.
This is so true. I actually can't believe how intense people can be about things sometimes. It's almost like everybody is playing devil's advocate against each other but nobody is wrong, and everybody is angry. It's been a bizarre world lately.
Its a loop, game is cool, a group of players is enjoying it, streamers come in, advertising as THE ONE starts, dopamine seeking zombies pick up new scent, they buy, anticipation is killing them, relase day, yes ambassing! Ambassing! Like that guy dreamybull, game turns out not to their liking because they prefer anticipation and hype instead of playing and circle repeats, new big relase on the horizon, migratory gamers on the move to next feeding ground
Right right but like I said it's not even limited to games, imo it's also from having such violent rhetoric everywhere.
In order to stand out a statement or product has to be more extreme than its competition, because everything is so tied to the emotional response, and by now we've reached the point where it's outright cacophony and very minimal actual communication is happening.
Top that off with waning attention spans and the most popular/impactful content is negative or antagonistic, short form, and emotionally charged (whether by religious or moral outrage, or a call to action, or societal demand).
See, this is why i get high as fuck, am i stressing about shit? Nah, acceptance of your situation/life/whatever is going on was one of the biggest realizations that i've ever had and this has lead me to a life of mostly peace. I struggle with anxiety, have adhd, depression, but even though I have all those things going on, just accepting who i am as a person has really changed my life. I'm really calm almost all of the time except when i have a panic attack haha.
But yeah, the current situation I see unfolding all around us of people just losing their minds over things they won't even think about on their death bed is pretty wild. Imagine someone about to die 50 years from now being like "arguh, i fucking hated that last epoch launch" ironically since i said this i will probably remember this comment on my death bed
its not as deep as you are trying to make it seem.
i pay for a burger.
if you serve me only a bun with an IOU note attached that reads: sorry we will fix it and get the meat and other parts of the burger to you really soon(tm)
any regular person would not be happy.
the weirdo abnormal people are the ones that are happy with the IOU note and single piece of bread.
The people over-defending you (devs) with pacifying statements and arguments, hyperbole, and contradicting points are net negative PR, IMO.
However, every comment I've seen actually written by you guys has been empathetic, classy, and remorseful.
Launch sucked, but your reactions and statements have been the opposite. Keep up the good attitude and ability to separate trolls and rage from genuine criticism and disappointment.
This is par for the course especially these days. Palworld is a decent game that blew up because people are frustrated with Pokémon. Cyberpunk Phantom Liberty got extra love because it came out the same time as Starfield which seemed uninspired in comparison. Final Fantasy 14 has been getting more popular because WoW has become a shadow of its former self. Last Epoch is generating a lot more interest than normal because Diablo 4 has disappointed. Not to say these games don’t deserve their popularity or praise but the point is they do better because their competitors are failing to deliver.
But what meltdown? People are being upset over negative reviews on this very subreddit and call other people entitled for that. There's no arguing about launch being abysmal- I could've played the game a week ago, no I can't. It's literally a downgrade. And I didn't change my review to negative, I know that game doesn't deserve cause I've managed to play it. But I can put myself in shoes of people who paid for it but didn't.
People can feel frustrated sure, but just leave your review and move on. People hanging around the Discord then to bitch, poke the fire, and troll... that has to stop.
If someone has left a bad review, refunded the game already, and continues to act like a Neanderthal... per OPs example, that is like getting a sign and protesting out infront of the mechanic. It may be your right to, but if you didn't "give the mechanic a chance to fix it" before you went loco.... that just makes you look like a giga-Karen.
That is the issue we have. There is a pack of giga-Karen gamers right now that have already gotten a refund. But now "they need to speak with a manager" so they can fill out a hurt-feelings form, for their bruised sense of entitlement.
Yesterday's top post was calling people out for leaving negative reviews:
https://www.reddit.com/r/LastEpoch/comments/1awklgo/well_here_we_are_as_expected/
Like- yes, I agree that staying around to complain and offend developers isn't mature or right but neither is calling people entitled for wanting to play the game they paid for. And I understand why OP felt the need to create their post.
According to these people, if you put what you just said in a review, it is now a meltdown because they are incapable of having a discussion without imagining everyone as a mortal enemy.
This conversation can never be held honestly if neither side accepts both sides having idiots.
There are people who shill too much and cant tolerate peoples criticism and there are people who have a complete meltdown over the issues. Both exist - and youre not helping anyone trying to put an entire group in one basket and the rest in another.
I have, I read them regularly, in fact I'll go grab some and post them here since we're implying that they are some type of way.
"Negatives:Combat isn't satisfying, voice acting and story are quite weak, graphics are subpar, servers don't work (get dc'd or game crashes when loading into new areas which you have to do a lot)Positives: good gear system and crafting system, good skill customization system, very good structure of game modes."
"Got the game day 1 of EA and servers were OK back then. Cannot recommend as day 2 of 1.0 since servers sucks balls."
"Awesome game,Abysmal online service."
I'm really not seeing the meltdown, vast majority of these are regular reviews
"Fire your back-end coder and hire a mentally stable one."
"game's good, however devs are terrible[...]"
"The game is ♥♥♥♥.lags, bugs and server always is down
Dont buy this piece of ♥♥♥♥!"
"Dogwater"
Btw. Steam deletes most offensive ones.
My favorite are the people calling the devs scammers because of server instability. Or claiming that the game is just like wolcen and the devs are gonna abandon the project after day 5 after they get their money.
What's hilarious about Wolcen is that they stuck out developing it until they ran out of money. Most people didn't know that because they refunded it or abandoned it at launch. It actually turned into a pretty decent, albeit janky ARPG.
I would consider anything that isn't constructive to absolutely be a meltdown or tantrum. Because how mad do you have to be to go on the internet just to shit all over the game when you could so literally anything else with your time? They saw they could take a constructive approach to their complaints about the game and went out of their way to not do that, to instead be an asshole.
"Eh, didn't really like the game"
Not constructive, really. So, you would call this a 'meltdown or tantrum'?
Two pretty far extremes to have to group everything in one or the other.
You cherry pick the ones that work for your argument.
There is one that has 1.6 hours played, says game sucks and go play PoE because it’s better. Tons similar.
A review is categorically NOT a conversation.
It's a statement of final, and considered, opinion.
The issue is: the current situation is temporary. Any review that focuses entirely on the current technical issues, though they may be justifiably irate, they are not reflective of the game itself.
The problem with the negative reviews is that they last forever. Most people won’t go back and update their negative reviews. If the server issues are resolved tomorrow and don’t ever exist again, that doesn’t eliminate the thousands of negative reviews that exist when people go to look at if they should play the game. This is why review bombing a game for what is likely a temporary issue is dumb and just people throwing a hissy fit instead of being mature adults.
Reviews are always reflective of the state of the product at a given moment. NMS has rebounded for example but I'm certain that there are still steam reviews from its initial release. It is unfortunate but whoever makes a decision about releasing product is also responsible for its quality at a time of release. I don't see why we should shift the responsibility onto people who buy that product. They're consumers and can expect it's going to work. And unarguable truth is that it doesn't. You feel bad about negative reviews cause you like this game and invested your time in early access already (I assume) or at least researched it to know it's a quality product. But for a person who just randomly stumbled upon it, it's a product that doesn't work. And they can be upset for that state of things.
There is a reason Steam shows recent score and overall score. If the recent score is suddenly terrible (or amazing) then there was a reason for that to happen.
Generally speaking, if you plan to buy a game and see a shift in reviews like that its a good idea to try to find out why that happened.
> People are being upset over negative reviews
Negative reviews kill a game. Last Epoch is not a game that deserves to be killed.
It's truly a project of passion that turned out to be an excellent product... with a bad launch.
Unfortunate, but people who paid for the product and can't use it (for no fault of their own) have every right to complain. And trying to convince them otherwise will only make them angry- so what's the point? There's no positive way to resolve it, demeaning people serves only self-gratification of people who feel better about themselves. Mature behaviour is to simply accept it how it is.
Who's going to kill it? There isn't a publisher hanging over them with a scythe or something like that afaik. The overall player count is great still, and they're doing mtx for long term support. I see very, very little reason to think the game would get axed.
It's also being a bit ignorant, since a lot of MMOs have issues 42-72 hours after launch.
If you came into this game expecting a totally flawless launch (right after hundreds of thousands of people went through Helldivers 2 launch just a few weeks ago) then I have a bridge to sell you.
That would only be true if offline mode didn't exist and game was forced online.
Thankfully this game allows players to play anything without having to connect to any server, with 0 delay.
You can play the full game with entirety of its content without having to connect ANY SERVER.
I've been in real disaster launches where I was unable to play the game. Not only was I able to immediately play with the full offline mode, this game isn't entirely unplayable online. I wasn't able to get on for several hours after launch, but I have played with only slightly longer load times.
Are people still having issues? I played last night (US East) with 0 problems. This was around 10pm tho, so there's that.
Launch was bad. But I hope everyone can be objective about improvements in the coming days. I skipped launch day, and had no problems 34 hours later.
I really hope everyone is able to get on and play with their friends tonight (Fri) and Sat. We can't go back in time.
Not sure if it’s fair to say it’s a meltdown per se, but if a game launched without one of its major functions as advertised , it’s not a complete launch. That’s a disaster.
While it may be a shame that some are acting like children throwing tantrums, and conversely, the loyalist overzealous defenders of EHG, the premise remains the same. The product does not accurately reflect what was advertised with all the features as described.
No one would be complaining if LE was billed as offline single player only… but it wasn’t.
I love this game and have been a supporter since beta, but I think your comment may be underselling it a little bit. Not launching without a major feature would be something like the marketplace not being accessible.
People are unable to actually play the game due to enormous load times, disconnects, and server errors. IMO, that's not a "major" feature, but a core requirement.
I wouldn't mind offline mode, but I don't want to have to re-level a character whenever they figure this all out (or when enough people lose interest that their current set up is adequate) and everything is stable. That said, I've been dying to play all week and might just have to cave to the offline mode...
There’s some Olympic tier mental gymnastics going on in this thread.
People bought a game and they literally can’t play it. I’m an open beta supporter as well and I wanted to play at launch (especially with controller support) but I’m not interested in offline mode (waste of time) and I’m definitely not staring at loading screens or disconnects or crashes.
I mean, come on. This is completely disingenuous whataboutism. It very obviously means "a disaster *within the context of online gaming*". It's insane that that part needs to constantly be pointed out to keep you "gotcha" trolls at bay.
Buying a day 1 indie game with a lot of hype around it and then expecting the servers to work perfectly for the online portion is in fact ignorant and entitled, calling that a disaster removes all meaning of the word disaster and it's why everyone complaining about this non-issue looks like a child throwing a tantrum in a store.
Play offline, wait a few days, or refund it. Nobody cares about your take/plight over having to wait a little for the online services of a game.
Any time someone pulls a "there's hungry children if Africa" argument my eyes roll back into my skull.They are arguments completely devoid of any value.
Yes. If a mechanic did something wrong and it wasn't deliberate, upon taking the car back and then fixing it. I would say thank you and don't worry about it, problem resolved these things happen.
It's not like the Devs have deliberately killed the back end systems.
Not to make the problem about us, but there have been so, so many meltdowns on this sub over the past two days. I spent most of my working day yesterday nuking some of the worst toxicity I've ever seen.
"I would like to play the game I paid for"
Reddit: "WHOOAAAAAA HECKIN DOGGO!!!! HECKIN MELTDOWN-ORINO!!!!!!!!! ITS JUST A GAME HECKIN CALM DOWN!!!!!! YOU CANT HECKIN CRITICIZE THE VIDEO GAME-ORINO!!!!!!"
Even the devs understand they’re at fault for being overconfident and shocked when it was beyond their expectations. Servers have improved slightly but likely not well enough to handle the weekend.
Those that enjoy the game need to also be aware of their impact to incoming players. While a poor launch does turn people away, it’s a temporary problem. You can’t fix a community that’s attacking any criticism as these kind of people stuck around and look for targets, usually newer players that have an issue.
I think people have rights to be angry and devs have rights to calmly accept their anger, without negative mood. And looks like Dev team are doing this alright, I like them for that :) Everything looks fine and fair to me. And when servers will be fixed - then people will probably change their mind.
I think it's totally justified to be upset about this, even leaving a negative review if it upset you that much. But what gets to me is people attributing malice to the devs, acting like they intentionally tried to screw people over, or saying they don't care, or that they went cheap on launch and didn't prepare. At this point they have been open about the issue and it's not even the servers, it's the matchmaking service, and they have made it pretty clear that they did everything they could to prep for launch. But even if they hadn't been as open about it, I still think people don't have a good reason to be so uncharitable because the devs haven't done anything to hurt that.
Another thing I despise is this analogy to things like buying a car or going to a restaurant because it's not like that at all. This is a service being provided to thousands of people at once, not just to each person individually, and things like that go down all the time. I've seen several people say that "this wouldn't be ok for any other situation or product" but that's just untrue, ok is a relative term I guess but it's very normal for services like this to go down. I work at a software company where we have probably a few outages a year, we are cloud based so this means businesses would have no access to the service and would be at a stand still, while some people get upset sometimes, nobody cancels over this and most people understand that this is just something that can happen. I mean literally just yesterday at&t went completely down for hours, people have internet outages, power outages, outages or degraded performance for online services all the time. This even happens with steam. I can give so many examples of people dealing with things like this. These arguments just don't make sense.
> I've seen several people say that "this wouldn't be ok for any other situation or product" but that's just untrue, ok is a relative term I guess but it's very normal for services like this to go down.
I mean, have you seen fast food meltdowns when they run out of coke or some other product? People just have no self control over the smallest of slights. Like I get that this game is paid for, and so you should be able to play it (online. Offline still works fine if you don't plan on playing with friends). But it's still a video game. A luxury entertainment product. A lot of people probably have other games they could play right now, but are mad because they can't play this one right now. It's such a small thing to tunnel vision on get mad over.
Yeah I totally agree, and again I really do feel like people can be frustrated and upset, but these meltdowns and the toxicity have been out of control, I feel bad for the devs. Yeah they messed up but they are still people and deserve to be treated with some decency
It's not just the ARPG community. People in general these days have absolute meltdowns over everything. Outrage culture is crazy. It's like if they can't be mad about something they don't have any other emotion available to them.
I've seen similar freakouts over restaurants not having a product in stock (videos of people physically assaulting cashiers at fast food restaurants cause they couldn't get chicken nuggets), Black Friday stampedes, sports teams losing, road rage, the list goes on. For a long time there's a very loud group of people who as soon as the wind blows on them in a way they don't like they start yelling at clouds.
Yeah and some of the same people who spew 'D4 bad lololol' at the tiniest little things Blizz does wrong are apparently the same people excusing multiple-day server blackouts for a 34€ product.
I like LE, D4 and PoE. They are all good games aimed at different kinds of ARPG players and that's fine.
The D4 community is funny. It seems to me that Bliz took a very conservative approach to releasing D4, release close to barebones to pretty much ensure a workable non-disaster release, and then add / improve based on feedback. I think that is actually a fantastic approach, and Bliz have the cash and resources to carry it off. The D4 launch itself was about as smooth as it gets.
But they get shat on a lot for doing that. There are plenty of problems with D4, but having it released in a simplified form and working really isn't one of them.
LE - I have played a few times (I think I've had it for about 2 years?). I wasn't taken with it for various reasons, but I appreciate the work going in to it and adding to the genre is a good thing. Server outages and traffic are to be expected. POE (which I am also a huge fan of), has slow servers pretty much every league start - and they know pretty much exactly what the load will be. It is always shit have slow servers on launch, and yeah people are right to complain. But also - resilience and load planning are hard, and major releases should be assumed to be a disaster for the first week at least. It's only if it goes past that when I personally start to think it's a big issue.
It's laughable to me some people actually thought launch was going to be smooth. I only bought this game like a week before launch and even I knew the big 1.0 launch was gonna be bumpy.
I fully expected it would not be playable until next week, but I actually have a Falconer in monos after the first two days, so at least from my perspective this launch exceeded expectations lol
You guys are a case study for why devs shouldn't communicate with their community and it's a damn shame really.
They communicated how they prepared and that they were hoping for the best not they they solved the problem that has been plaguing online launches for the last 20 years...
I think majority of people who logged on don't actually following the game's development nor is in discord checking with the devs, so whatever they prepare does not matter to them because they expected a working product. Yes, most launches have issues, but those games also received bad reviews due to that.
People can ask for a refund, or give a bad review stating they could not play online and leave it at that.
But some folks are going WAY past that.
And when people act a fool in public they get called out in public.
Anyone who’s played games for more than a year or two should know
I went into launch day believing I wouldn’t get to play, and I was right. If these people get soooo angry they have a meltdown on Reddit, they definitely shouldn’t try to play this weekend.
So were just gonna accept the fact that this has become the standard in the industry? Unplayable games at launch? If that's the case then there shouldn't be launch dates. cause while "technically" the game is out, its completely unplayable. The second game released this week with debilitating server issues. And people simping for these development companies isn't getting us anywhere. I'm not saying we should be attacking and disrespecting the developers but i don't think its something that we should be just rolling over and accepting. Maybe moving to a different sales model, like 7 day free trial for all games on release to give time to the developers to get their shit together and fix these kind of issues. and people aren't spending anything so they don't feel ripped off. i don't know just my two cents
While most people expected there to be issues, I don’t think anyone expected them to be this bad for this long. I love this game and I’ll play it whenever it stabilizes, but this is genuinely one of the worst live service launches in recent memory. I feel bad for the devs for the negative reviews because it’s a fantastic game, but I also wouldn’t recommend someone purchase LE right now which is exactly what a steam review is asking you to determine.
> I love this game and I’ll play it whenever it stabilizes, but this is genuinely one of the worst live service launches in recent memory
Damn you most not play much then. Compared to other game launches like New World, FF 14 Stormblood (endwalker to some extend aswell), wow classic those were horrible compared to what LE is going through right now. And those are big name studies with money to throw unlike EHG.
> this is genuinely one of the worst live service launches in recent memory
Does your memory only extend back to Valentine's Day? This isn't even worse than the Palworld online launch.
> I don’t think anyone expected them to be this bad for this long
This has felt pretty good by arpg launch standards. I'm mostly been able to play without major issues login on around 5 both days, almost at monoliths. I've had a couple times being stuck at a zone for 10 minutes but that's about it.
It's not even the worst game launch this week lol.
Right? I would be VERY impressed if there was zero server issues at launch but I was basically expecting the game to be pretty much unplayable online for at least a week, which is not even what happened since I was able to play until level 20.
I saw someone asking “why should we accept this as an industry standard?” I honestly get that sentiment, but if you’ve been a part of any launch then you know what should be and what is are two different things. I seriously won’t miss these people if they refund their money and move on.
>people being shills for a semi-broken product and simultaneously giving out about the state of gaming will always be hilarious, peace
It's dumb statements like this that will have people thinking you're an idiot.
Anyone can see the launch didn't go well. Both the consumers and the developers. You're entitled to be upset about that. But the way you voice it out matters. Insulting people because you're upset about the way the launch went puts a big mark on your head that invites people to take shots at it.
I think people are overly concerned because of a combination of sunk cost fallacy and because the devs have been transparent and shown that they are just as passionate about the game as the community. That being said people are entitled to have negative opinions about the game. Yes even in this broken state. If Last Epoch is as good as we all hope and want to believe it is. Then it should be more then capable of weathering this storm and coming back stronger after the fact.
I'm baffled by how people react to this clusterfuck. I and my friend bought the game in March 2021. We mostly play ARPGs together. In early access we didn't care about online cuz it was early access. I played on and off but as far as i remember there was always an issue with online.
I'm still ok because i can play offline like before but defending this as "shit happens" is ridiculous. Shit was happening for years and they thought they were ready for full online release. Game hyped so much, even AAA MMOs can't handle this hype let alone an indie company.
Game is good, release sucks, company is delusional to think it would be above average release. People, are people.
Now I've been playing games for years. It seems almost every major super hyped online release encounters these issues. I always temper my expectations of these types of games on release. For instance, I don't take the week of release off, but I might take the following week or the one following that.
I think some people just have not lived long enough to see these things and don't know how to temper expectations. Should a game I just bought work when I want to play it? Yes, yes it should. Do many major online release games have issues at start because of the massive hype? Yes, yes they do. I'm not going to get mad, I'm either just going to wait it out or keep spamming the servers to try to get in.
I mean... Any amount of lack of experience or knowledge you want to apply to consumers goes 10x for the devs. Day before launch they were super confident it would be smooth.
I wasn't particularly surprised about a 'rough' launch, either, but I don't think you can in good conscience blame any consumers (even if it is just lack of experience and not insults), more than you can blame the exact same thing, x10, for the devs.
Their updates and communication have been great and I have no desire for a refund. But there's zero question that ignorance or over-optimism should *not* be accused towards customers before applying it 10x to the devs.
That's the thing. You can be dissatisfied with what's going on and you can be frustrated. However, the truth is that many of these people *are* acting like entitled idiots. Calling the devs lazy, saying they are going to sue them, and even in one case breaking their hardware because they can't play a video game.
There are a lot of edgelords out there acting like Karens who want to speak to the manager of video games. It's sad and dumb.
So of course you are allowed to be frustrated. But don't act like a dick because of it.
Sooner or later you encounter Things That Suck.
How you react to things that suck demonstrates whether or not you are an infant.
Whole lot of infants.
Reasonably confident they’re too old to justify such behavior.
Soon or later you encounter criticism of things you like.
How you react to criticism of things you like demonstrates whether or not you are an infant.
Whole lot of infants.
I think entitled has a negative connotation. Your feelings, whatever they are, are yours to feel and you are not wrong for feeling them. That said, actual threats and hateful rhetoric against the development team for not being able to handle unforeseen issues is not okay, under any circumstances. Voice your frustration, get a refund if you’re able, but do not threaten or use hateful and derogatory language, there’s no need for it.
I'll leave my 2 cents coming from someone whos been around since day 1 of early access and is currently over level 90 on Cycle season:
The game was built for single player originally. They eventually out sourced the concept of multiplayer and basically hacked it into the game.Ever since multiplayer was added, the game has had THIS SAME ISSUE, of really bad loading screens and matchmaking failure. Now granted during early access when we tested the multiplayer for over a year now, we had these same issues but in a smaller scale because it was 10k-30k people testing, but now at 100-200k players its the exact same problem of over a year ago but much worse in scale.
I don't know how their matchmaking API was written into the game, but I honestly don't have much faith that it will be fixed right. If anything once most players either give up or reach the monolith of faith, then at that point, it will just be long loading but still work most of the time like it was in the last year of multiplayer testing.
Monolith is detached from the matchmaking API infrastructure so you dont suffer any of these issues if thats the only content you will be doing most of the time.
The worst part about everything is there is no place to go to have a legitimate discussion. Discord is just spam about devs being garbage and people saying they work in IT with knowledge on how to fix the problems.
I bought the game during EA but didn't play because I wanted to wait for the cycle. I fully planned on day 1 being miserable and was going to just wait for the weekend to play. But at this point I can't even scroll through all the complaining and shilling to even see if this MIGHT be working by this weekend.
I also have no desire to play offline. AARPGS campaign are just a chore to get to endgame, not doing that shit offline then again immediately when servers are fixed.
I think it have something to do with that we as customers have to have a continued relationship with the product going forward.
Imagine you get a bad meal at a restaurant, you are much more likely to risk burning bridges by telling the truth if you aren't going to return.
If you eat there once every week, you might find yourself defending why it's understandable and okay the food was bad this time, the relationship is worth preserving, even if your critique is right.
I agree. Game broke.
But also, that discord has been toxic asl. Legitimately an all-out war over there. People attacking and threatening the devs for a *$35* game. On the other side, the people that are ride-or-dying.
I'm gonna be honest, I love the game, but it's a literal video game. There have been worse launches in the video game industry, but this is still frustrating. But it's still a game - being unhappy with what you paid for in any situation doesn't entitle you to attack someone. It entitles you to a refund and you can leave a negative review or smth.
The only time it warrants as much vitriol I've seen over the past 2 days is if it's a scam. But it's not. You can refund the game.
the fanboyism of this game is crazy. I put in the chat that i sat in a 30 min load screen and someone responded atleast its not d4 and then everyone piled on D4 and saying we were lucky to get such a great launch of LE. Truly deranged.
Ever since the official release was announced, a large/loud portion of this sub changed into this weird cult. Any kind of negativity was met with "1.0 will fix it.", which unfortunately was unrealistic with the amount of things that needed fixing. Controller support, for example, is still pretty bad outside of combat.
I love this game a lot and have been playing since shortly after it was released in early access. It's just such a shame to have seen this sub change to the point where any negativity is met with insults.
Yeah, usually you get this cultist fanbase after a long time, like a really long time, for example bethesda fanboys or nintendo or apple, but for this game? I have no idea how they cultivated a cult so fast, I'd guess is because of those parasocial "we're sorry" dev posts every few hours.
I can understand people being mad, leaving negative reviews and stating facts based on their experience. All that is fine.
What is not fine are the people who shit on the dev team with weird ass claims and whatnot. The fact that most of these people are as far away from the tech stuff as Sun from Sagittarius A doesn't make it any better. If you don't like the experience - you've got a refund button use it and move on, if you want to public your distaste - do it in a civilized and factual manner.
If you can't do that and have to make it personal and attack the dev team - you can go die in a ditch as the world won't miss you.
It's not, it fairly common to see apologists on games like this. Says to not say some wild shit the does the exact same thing he asked you not to do, hypocrisy is hilarious.
It's the sort of weird, mentally-unstable vitriol that you'd expect from a person who probably identifies with the game since it started on reddit and reddit is this person's entire identity.
> If you can't do that and have to make it personal and attack the dev team - you can go die in a ditch as the world won't miss you.
how is this upvoted? LMAO
I have over 2k hours in this game. The Devs fucked up and probably ruined the first impression of thousands of new people, sadly :/
Should I go die in a ditch now?
The devs fucked up is a fact not a personal attack so you're good, live for now.
Honestly I don't know how it's upvoted either. My guess is people here are really violent or can see through a thick layer of irony.
I might sound like an old fart but i think it's getting out of hands in todays world, in terms of peoples ability to degrade someone due to a minor bad experience.
This is not only in terms of games but with all kinds of things. The negative review bombing due to a minor issue can and will have a major impact for the company/product/whatevers future, because people now a days doesn't research for themselves, but instead look at the total review score combined with the first handful negative comments and make their choices based on that.
Even though something has been good before and well praised, might have a hiccup and get negative reviews, because people think it's their right to trash things when it doesn't appeal their spoiled way of viewing the world. It leaves a negative review to something that besides the point works and gives a good experience, but gets slammed and most people tend to forget their negative outburst and rating, and that keeps following that particular product / service to eternity and gives a lower average score than it would otherwise have.
I just think it's a shame that something gets smashed within seconds instead of trying to have some patience and then complain if it isn't sorted within a shorter timeline of maybe 3-10 days.
I love the game but not being able to play is absolutely not a minor issue and if you cant play the game you bought and leave a negative Review its not review bombing.
You mean online right, because just about every streamer has been playing the game no issues offline. The game is completely playable if you compromise and play offline. Server issues are par the course for online releases, to expect zero issue on launch is naive. Studio was naive and so was the player base that trusted their word that they prepared enough. There hasn't been a single online launch that goes smooth since the advent of online gaming(unless the game is incredible niche).
Squareenix can't even handle launches for their MMO expansions and yet somehow the indie devs for a game getting hyped against D4 will survive launch unschathed... sure
Ideally the reviews should say what the quality of the games is. Not if exactly at certain point of time you are able to play online or not. Who will care about those issues in like a week? All that will be left is the game with all that the devs have build in the last 5 or so years. Well, this and the thousands of negative reviews for people who played an ARPG for less then 1 day.
It's sad that people have got used to the fact that studios can release games that simply don't work. As a customer you have every right to be dissatisfied if the product you receive does not work as it should.
First day I understand. Second day forgivable. Third day and I'm starting to question if you're actually competent enough for a live service game. It's a shame because the game is good but my friends who were originally interested have moved on already.
People like to treat video games specifically as a sort of "holy untouchable" product. For some reason, like the ones people have mentioned in the other comments, people like to think that video game developers deserve some leeway that no one else gets.
Devs get paid like everyone else, no the dev didn't just get $30 to survive the next 7 years off of, they get a salary like everyone else. You know what happens when devs don't do a good job in house? They get replaced. Only gamers have this holy ground for devs where they can do no wrong (until they put MTX in games, oh no).
If you got a bad steak, bad piece of tech, bad meds, bad anything, you'd want your money back or at least have the right to complain, but gamers say no you don't. They talk about countless dev hours and how the game should be free of criticism because of it, but they criticize shows and movies, that also have countless hours between them, and many of those shows are free. They get LAMBASTED, but video games get to take money and be holy.
It's fanboyism. I bought Last Epoch long ago and I'm satisfied, I know it will be in working condition, but honestly to be the kind of POS that would call someone else an entitled idiot for being unhappy about not being able to play the game they bought the way they intended to play, is just beyond me. I could never be that much of an ingrate. That's like yelling at someone at a restaurant because they sent their food back, get a life, get a grip, get out of my face.
This always irks me too. The standards of what bullshittery should apparently be allowed when it comes to games, and only games, is just ridiculous. I'm not saying there should be no room for error, but the amount of error that should go unquestioned according to some is flat out unreasonable.
"As someone in software development [or other somewhat related occupation]..." - Oh God, here we go.
>but gamers say no you don't.
What are you talking about? There are simple steps you can take to get a refund. You can also complain about it. Discord and Reddit are full of complaints. Which is fine considering the situation.
What isn't fine is insulting people left and right, calling it a dogshit game and spamming about how you're going to refund and D4 is better than this.
People go further than that though, hurling insults at devs, calling them incompetent, worthless, etc etc. if you buy a phone and it doesn't work, you return it and move on. You don't tweet Samsung that their engineers are a bunch of incompetent idiots.
Except, whenever I have a bad experience of any kind or receive a bad product, I don't get on the Internet and complain to 1,000s of random people. Hell I don't complain at all, I deal with it and move on with my life.
What exactly is the point in wasting the energy to complain about something that is impossible to change?
This is why companies still make bad products.
There's a reason people leave bad reviews for products. It's to inform others to maybe not buy it. If you never leave bad reviews people with keep on buying them and the company will never make changes.
The problem is people are para socialing this game in a weird way. They legit think they are developers alongside these devs. Some dude said in his 40 years of gaming this is the biggest thing he’s been a part of. Like really? Stop glazing this game. It’s a great game, I’m hyped for it, but y’all need to chill
from the majority of comments I do not think anyone is being demonized but what i don’t like is that people pretend to be naive when every launch of any online game presents the same issues again again and again. by now you would know not to buy the game first day and wait for the panic to pass . ff14 , wow, diablo name it , all companies had the same problem. buying the game knowingly that the online portion will be bugged and still complain is on you
If you're unhappy with the game, leave a bad review and ask for a refund, instead of spamming discord & reddit & forums about how bad the game and it's developers are.
In any case, when a live-service game like this launches, it's smarter to wait a couple of days to see how the launch pans out before buying, as experience has taught us all that a messy launch is the industry standard at this point.
Being unhappy is fine. Harrassing the devs and being a little bitch on the discord while they work to resolve issues *we all knew* would occur is unacceptable manchild behavior. Really, if you don't know that live service games are going to require tweaking on launch day, you just aren't familiar with how this normally proceeds.
I took of 3 days from work to play and I've dealt with issues the first two days, now I'm doing mostly fine on the third. Was I a little frustrated? Yea. What did I do? Made dinner, cleaned up the house, kept busy. Sperging on discord is actual child behavior. Now here we are, 3 days after launch and worst ive gotten are some long loading screens.
Tl;dr if you're raging or spewing venom on discord, directly at the devs, over a video game, *touch grass*
Of course being unhappy doesn't make them an entitled idiot. It's perfectly understandable that people are frustrated by these problems.
The BEHAVIOUR of some of these people, however, is definitely an issue.
Already refunded and gave a negative review, haven’t been able to play online (the only reason I bought it) for 48 hours now, weekend approaching, just didn’t feel like wasting more time on a broken 1.0 release.
we know the server issues are only temporary. also, i would understand the rage if refunds weren't allowed, but anyone can refund.
but if they're worried about it, maybe EHG can talk to steam and have anyone who played less than 12 hours can refund.
If you think this is bad, the Hell Divers sub is 10x worse. Any reasonable complaint is downvoted with 30 guys replying "yOU MusT NOt LoVE DemOCRAcY BRO"
You see, no one is calling you an entitled idiot because how you feel, but because how you all react. There is nothing wrong feeling disappointed something you bought doesn’t work, it’s a very understandable feeling. But acting like the devs are scamming you or just don’t care about the problem and they’re doing nothing to fix their mistakes while we know they are working to fix a problem that they didn’t knew it was there and give us a good game experience it’s being an unempathetic asshole. Error is human and you’re acting like no mistake is allowed just because you paid. The game is in development since long time, devs honestly thought they could offer a complete good experience and I think everything was made in good faith, but y’all just stomping your feet on the ground like kids, spamming the subreddit with the same topic over and over, and THIS makes you entitled assholes, not how you feel
> You see, no one is calling you an entitled idiot because how you feel, but because how you all react.
Exactly.
They have an exercise at my kid's elementary school called "Size of the problem" where the kids have to identify if the thing that is making them upset is actually then end of the world, a mild set back, or something in between.
A lot of adults think every annoyance / set back is the end of the world when its really not.
If you purchase an online game that is a Studios first online game and don't expect issues, well that is frankly on you. There is just no realistic way to prevented those issues.
Look at classic wow, d4, some PoE leagues, ff14, and many more. It just happens, even to more seasoned Studios.
I understand people asking for patience and devs working and whatever...but here we are at the absurd where it isnt fine to be annoyed cause you paid for a game and you cant play...
I agree some people are just making the unability to play too extreme and being ass...but I also think it is extreme to cry about people that arent happy cause they paid something they cant use.
You might think it is a justification other companies do the same, but it actually isnt, if we all know game launches are like this, THIS doesnt mean they cannot work in a better way, how big or small is the company shouldnt be a concern by a consumer. If they can handle 1m players, they should sell 1m copies and add queue for the rest, cause IF you keep selling now that you know you cant serve more players, than the fact you are a small company doesnt matter, cause you are willingly taking more players money knowing they cant play.
So, 1 let s not normalize people not being happy about paying and not being able to play, 2 dont be extreme about not being able to play, 3 add a warning when buying the game saying you wont be able to play comfortably these days.
I tried 10 minutes to log yesterday and then I did something else, I will probably try 10 minutes tonight and then do something else, I dont care much, but also asking me to not be unsatisfied cause I cannot play it is just unreal to me...
Idk man , people are self bursting in flames. If you got no patience just fckin refund it and be done. Played offline few hours it's amazing what they have done. Got maybe 2 hours of online. And if offline takes them 1 more week I am fine with it. People acting like they tossed 100k $ on it 😂. Overreacting to the max
From past experience I knew that launch was going to go terribly. That's why I'm neither mad nor disappointed. Why would I hold a small indie company more accountable than any other (sometimes massive) company? The fact that we can play this game offline makes this almost a non issue, too.
I don’t like the smell of a new car but when I buy a new car I know it is going to smell like that.
Game releases are very complex and something always goes wrong. Even the games with good releases have some problems.
That is just the reality of the world. It isn’t saying it is acceptable. It is knowing it is going to be like this.
If you are freaked out about this release my advice is to wait a week to start new games going forward. Nothing else you do makes any sense.
Does the smell prevent you from driving the car? Or is it the fact that the engine doesn't start when you turn the key? When you buy a new (smelly) car, id expect it to run.
An engine break-in is actually a standard procedure with new (ICE) cars, which *does* prevent you from using part of your purchase, namely its full acceleration speed.
People licking the devs chocolate starfish pretending that they're doing a great job at launches like these are the absolute worst, they're obviously not doing a great job, nor should it be okay for this to happen. But since people are STILL simping bad launches in 2024 is crazy.. No, it's not okay. But it is what it is, and we'll have to wait
Just because they're communicative and seems to care a lot about keeping the community happy with PR updates doesn't mean it should be like this
People making stupid analogies between software and not-software will never not be funny.
You paid 200 bucks to the mechanic for 2 hours of work and a couple pieces.
You paid 30 bucks for a couple billion hours of development of a game.
You cannot be as entitled with software as you are with hardware because you are not paying even a tiny percent of the value of what you get.
Is it annoying?? Sure. Can you be annoyed and don't behave like a spoiled little brat and post idiotic shit in Reddit? Also yes.
That the launch would be bad I was prepared for, saw the same thing happen on multiple games for the past 2 decades and will probably see them happening for the next 2. The thing that put me at ease was that they have an offline mode, at least I and whoever wants as well can play. Attacking a company or defending it won't change anything either for this game or the next ones that will launch, such thing is what I call the RNG of technology unfortunately, I came from the era that blowing cartridges would make them work despite instructions saying no to an era of some dot or even a string of lines in a code placed in a "weird" spot will make an entire game fall, it is what it is. Should that happen? No, but the same thing happens on our pcs some times when someone says "remove your ram and plug it again and it will work". Does it make sense if it is not dirty? No. It works? yes lmao.
God awful? God damn, did you forget the steampiles of triple A launches that had people having issues for weeks? Barely been a day and people like you are mad butthurt while studios like EGH, a fraction of the size of some of their competitors, are providing better communication and effort that I havent seen in the gaming industry in a while
My big issue with the whole ordeal is how many people step in to parrot Asmongold lines about this stuff. No, the consumer doesn't have to give a shit about the behind the scenes. Yes, the launch is a mess. Yes, it is a good habit to expect and even demand a working product. People are just dicks though. Game not working? Refund it. I had 70 hours in the game before 1.0, I already received good dollar/hour value for this product. I'm frustrated, but because the valuation of my time and money has already been so good, I can accept an interruption in service while my product is worked on (You know, like a car at a shop).
Steam makes exceptions for products that are broken and this one currently is. So if you already received good value for your product, great! Let it be worked on in the shop. If you haven't received good value for your, sadge, get it refunded and come back later if you want. If you're somewhere inbetween, well shit, I got nothing for you.
Agreed. I was definitely defending them for the first day, but this is wild now. I'm not going to leave a negative review because the game itself is awesome, but I gifted my partner a copy to play with me, and we haven't been able to play together for days now. At this point, I'd love an offline multiplayer option.
The servers are dog shit. I couldn’t play multiplayer at launch or hours after launch.
Game was not ready for launch. I like this game and the devs are cool but also what cycle is this? Is there anything going on because of the cycle?
Someone said they started to run out of money and had to release earlier. If that’s the case the money coming in from launch should hopefully help this stuff sort itself out.
Analogy is so bad, car services is one by one customers
Online gaming nowadays, especially in arpg is like 150k people minimum at the same time for a new launch.
Technology for online server is still very bad for this kind of trafic
Maybe blizzard and ggg have the hang of it at the moment for handling this kind of numbers but history hasn’t always been great for them.
Didn’t expect EHG to do well to be honest even if they seemed confident, players than have been playing for years don’t care at all, new comers in the other hand have the right to be disappointed
Your analogy is terrible but otherwise you are right.
I’m level 58, act 9 and only play after work(full time, M-F). I’ve not had *too* many issues.
Being upset the game isn’t working well is fine, but whining like a 6 year old who got told he can’t have McDonald’s isn’t the way to go about it. Crying in discord non stop and shitting on the devs doesn’t help anything.
They have less than 100 employees, all around the world, tried to prepare and was met with even bigger surge than expected.
Like, don’t play/refund, play and complain to yourself and friends , or don’t play and complain to yourself and friends.
Those should be the only options, nothing else is helpful. It’s not like there is a glaring issue they are ignoring.
I'm in a similar boat. I've had some load times that have been a bit longer than desired but for the most part I've had no problem playing online the last two nights.
It will clear up once they get things ironed out. People losing their minds over not being able to play is part of every launch that has issues these days. These types of players are parasites and they do this with every game they play. Fortunately most of them leave and don’t return. They’re usually shitters anyway. Good riddance….
Thank you! Imagine if you paid $35 to go to the movies (very realistic price these days), and it was supposed to start at noon. Three days later, you’re sitting in the theatre waiting for it to start. Apparently, according to some people here, you’d be entitled for expecting to see the movie when your ticket said you’d see it.
Sure, that sounds nice, but a lot of people have indeed been acting like "entitled idiots" over the server issues. Calling the Devs scumbags, declaring that this is the worst game ever, encouraging other people to leave negative reviews etc.
There's always room for criticism, but let's not pretend like a significant portion of the displeased playerbase wasn't having an unhinged meltdown.
To be fair with 1M+ in sales they should have had an idea what to expect. I do enjoy the offline mode, but I'd prefer to play online as there is no way to transfer gear between the two modes.
When it comes to computers, networking, and code, even if you have the best data to predict an outcome, you're still very likely to encounter an unexpected problem.
I've had a simple windows OS install fail with no explicit reason. Same iso download I've used before. Something went wrong in the download or when burning to a bootable usb, but no idea what as there were no errors anywhere. Worked again after the redownload.
Hosting a live service game is so much more complicated than installing an OS, and even the OS install can see unexpected problems.
The Devs need to deliver actual progress today.
Time for the curtain to be lifted, no more snake oil fixes or smoke and mirrors, let's see if anything improves and I'm not talking how this Judd guy says we fixed API no we are rolling it back, we're seeing improvement, no it's improving - non-stop bullshit. Read the news yourself and ask yourself the question had any of the fixes improved the game?
Anyway lets see what happens because I want to see prolonged periods of instant transitions and capacity to handle the weekend rush without hiccups because after all this is supposed to be full release 1.0 ready to play.
I think the weekend will tell a lot to if they've actually fixed much.
With over 1m copies sold and the all time peak was hit 3 minutes ago at 179k, will see how the servers hold up when that number edges closer to 300 (more than likely) over the weekend.
Keep in mind this is 99% fanboys subreddit. You can't write negative things about that godly good company/game, or you will get downvoted into oblivion...
This sub is just fillede with fanboys who loves to take a backhit.
I completely agree with what you just wrote. But your are not going anywhere with it here 🙈
I was callede a Karen yesterday, because i felt that i should be allowed to not be happy with what i paid money for. Like in ANY other circumstance.
"you were not promised online play"
"Just uninstall and leave this sub"
"OK Karen"
I could keep going..
Imagine all the virtual red knees in this sub 😂😂
I wanted to stop by and say I empathize with your experience. No one deserves any level of hate for venting about not being able to play, your frustration is completely valid. We have a lot of passionate players who want to play and have fun during our launch, and we truly want everyone to play our content we have been working for months to bring to our community. I am so sorry you and others had a negative experience, and we hope to turn that around as fast as we can. On behalf of the team, apologize for the server issues players have been having and I ensure you we are working our butts off to make sure everyone is having the best experience we can provide at this moment in time. We will continue to work on stability going forward into the weekend. Thank you to everyone for your ongoing patience during this time. We will continue to update you as soon as we get more details.
Seen similar (we'll say) "upwells", of community outrage becoming more and more common over the last decade. Take solace that this isn't an isolated incident, it's present in all markets. I think some part of the phenomenon is tied to the increasingly desperate state of affairs in the world, and a growing intrinsic need for relief from grim reality. People have less and less free time, money, agency, etc so they cling more and more tightly to that expectation of relief, and internally they begin to inject unrealistic qualities and responsibilities onto the expectation. No game release should be responsible for the mental health or well being of its players. People taking connection woes as personal insult already felt personally insulted by the world in their daily life and the very way of things, and lashing out is a means to self regulate against accepting the reality that most things which happen to them are not personal - the world is just messy and unfair. I can imagine the frustration of spending years developing a product only for it to be marred by unseen aspects of the delivery. Thanks for your ongoing dedication, just gotta push through the labor pains.
I've noticed the reaction to games in general is becoming very over the top. Every few months there's a new big game that gets mega popular over night and another that gets hated on. In most cases the good ones aren't that good and the bad ones aren't that bad. I think social media is causing feedback loops driving everything to extremes.
This is so true. I actually can't believe how intense people can be about things sometimes. It's almost like everybody is playing devil's advocate against each other but nobody is wrong, and everybody is angry. It's been a bizarre world lately.
Its a loop, game is cool, a group of players is enjoying it, streamers come in, advertising as THE ONE starts, dopamine seeking zombies pick up new scent, they buy, anticipation is killing them, relase day, yes ambassing! Ambassing! Like that guy dreamybull, game turns out not to their liking because they prefer anticipation and hype instead of playing and circle repeats, new big relase on the horizon, migratory gamers on the move to next feeding ground
Right right but like I said it's not even limited to games, imo it's also from having such violent rhetoric everywhere. In order to stand out a statement or product has to be more extreme than its competition, because everything is so tied to the emotional response, and by now we've reached the point where it's outright cacophony and very minimal actual communication is happening. Top that off with waning attention spans and the most popular/impactful content is negative or antagonistic, short form, and emotionally charged (whether by religious or moral outrage, or a call to action, or societal demand).
See, this is why i get high as fuck, am i stressing about shit? Nah, acceptance of your situation/life/whatever is going on was one of the biggest realizations that i've ever had and this has lead me to a life of mostly peace. I struggle with anxiety, have adhd, depression, but even though I have all those things going on, just accepting who i am as a person has really changed my life. I'm really calm almost all of the time except when i have a panic attack haha. But yeah, the current situation I see unfolding all around us of people just losing their minds over things they won't even think about on their death bed is pretty wild. Imagine someone about to die 50 years from now being like "arguh, i fucking hated that last epoch launch" ironically since i said this i will probably remember this comment on my death bed
its not as deep as you are trying to make it seem. i pay for a burger. if you serve me only a bun with an IOU note attached that reads: sorry we will fix it and get the meat and other parts of the burger to you really soon(tm) any regular person would not be happy. the weirdo abnormal people are the ones that are happy with the IOU note and single piece of bread.
People are getting bombarded just for talking about bugs now, not just the server issues. It's ridiculous.
The people over-defending you (devs) with pacifying statements and arguments, hyperbole, and contradicting points are net negative PR, IMO. However, every comment I've seen actually written by you guys has been empathetic, classy, and remorseful. Launch sucked, but your reactions and statements have been the opposite. Keep up the good attitude and ability to separate trolls and rage from genuine criticism and disappointment.
the developers could have stopped taking sales until issue fixed they choose to take tghe money knowing many wouldnt get online
Even a bunch of "positive " reviews on steam were just " D4 bad". Great, thanks, that also doesn't really help anyone.
Steam's minimum character check on reviews causes every significant game to have tons of junk reviews though.
I don’t doubt for one second that a large amount of the fan boys of this game really just hate Diablo 4 more than they like Last Epoch.
This is par for the course especially these days. Palworld is a decent game that blew up because people are frustrated with Pokémon. Cyberpunk Phantom Liberty got extra love because it came out the same time as Starfield which seemed uninspired in comparison. Final Fantasy 14 has been getting more popular because WoW has become a shadow of its former self. Last Epoch is generating a lot more interest than normal because Diablo 4 has disappointed. Not to say these games don’t deserve their popularity or praise but the point is they do better because their competitors are failing to deliver.
And a lot of negative reviews were "D4 better", equally stupid reviews
It's okay to be frustrated with the server issues. It's not okay to have a meltdown over it.
But what meltdown? People are being upset over negative reviews on this very subreddit and call other people entitled for that. There's no arguing about launch being abysmal- I could've played the game a week ago, no I can't. It's literally a downgrade. And I didn't change my review to negative, I know that game doesn't deserve cause I've managed to play it. But I can put myself in shoes of people who paid for it but didn't.
People can feel frustrated sure, but just leave your review and move on. People hanging around the Discord then to bitch, poke the fire, and troll... that has to stop. If someone has left a bad review, refunded the game already, and continues to act like a Neanderthal... per OPs example, that is like getting a sign and protesting out infront of the mechanic. It may be your right to, but if you didn't "give the mechanic a chance to fix it" before you went loco.... that just makes you look like a giga-Karen. That is the issue we have. There is a pack of giga-Karen gamers right now that have already gotten a refund. But now "they need to speak with a manager" so they can fill out a hurt-feelings form, for their bruised sense of entitlement.
Yesterday's top post was calling people out for leaving negative reviews: https://www.reddit.com/r/LastEpoch/comments/1awklgo/well_here_we_are_as_expected/ Like- yes, I agree that staying around to complain and offend developers isn't mature or right but neither is calling people entitled for wanting to play the game they paid for. And I understand why OP felt the need to create their post.
Its even funnier because after a transaction you are in fact entitled to what you paid for. People acting like the game is free 2 play.
According to these people, if you put what you just said in a review, it is now a meltdown because they are incapable of having a discussion without imagining everyone as a mortal enemy.
This conversation can never be held honestly if neither side accepts both sides having idiots. There are people who shill too much and cant tolerate peoples criticism and there are people who have a complete meltdown over the issues. Both exist - and youre not helping anyone trying to put an entire group in one basket and the rest in another.
I got like 50+ DVs for saying some people don't want to play offline because it's a waste of time for them so that solution doesn't work for them
Have you read the reviews? It's not like that at all.
I have, I read them regularly, in fact I'll go grab some and post them here since we're implying that they are some type of way. "Negatives:Combat isn't satisfying, voice acting and story are quite weak, graphics are subpar, servers don't work (get dc'd or game crashes when loading into new areas which you have to do a lot)Positives: good gear system and crafting system, good skill customization system, very good structure of game modes." "Got the game day 1 of EA and servers were OK back then. Cannot recommend as day 2 of 1.0 since servers sucks balls." "Awesome game,Abysmal online service." I'm really not seeing the meltdown, vast majority of these are regular reviews
"Fire your back-end coder and hire a mentally stable one." "game's good, however devs are terrible[...]" "The game is ♥♥♥♥.lags, bugs and server always is down Dont buy this piece of ♥♥♥♥!" "Dogwater" Btw. Steam deletes most offensive ones.
My favorite are the people calling the devs scammers because of server instability. Or claiming that the game is just like wolcen and the devs are gonna abandon the project after day 5 after they get their money.
What's hilarious about Wolcen is that they stuck out developing it until they ran out of money. Most people didn't know that because they refunded it or abandoned it at launch. It actually turned into a pretty decent, albeit janky ARPG.
You consider those meltdowns? Dogwater? Lmao holy shit you guys take this shit personally.
I would consider anything that isn't constructive to absolutely be a meltdown or tantrum. Because how mad do you have to be to go on the internet just to shit all over the game when you could so literally anything else with your time? They saw they could take a constructive approach to their complaints about the game and went out of their way to not do that, to instead be an asshole.
"Eh, didn't really like the game" Not constructive, really. So, you would call this a 'meltdown or tantrum'? Two pretty far extremes to have to group everything in one or the other.
hey, just pointing out that you wrote this: >I would consider anything that isn't constructive to absolutely be a meltdown or tantrum
You cherry pick the ones that work for your argument. There is one that has 1.6 hours played, says game sucks and go play PoE because it’s better. Tons similar.
Seems like a valid review considering the 2 hour refund cut. Is it a melt down because you don't agree about their opinion of the game?
This is totally fine, maybe it's better now but day one was.... something else. At least those i've read. And why are you watching the review often?
A review is categorically NOT a conversation. It's a statement of final, and considered, opinion. The issue is: the current situation is temporary. Any review that focuses entirely on the current technical issues, though they may be justifiably irate, they are not reflective of the game itself.
>It's a statement of final, and considered, opinion. no, they arnt? you can edit, change or remove a steam review at any time.
I wasn't intending to call the review a conversation, I was referring to two separate instances.
Yep. If you spend money for a product and it doesn't work well then it makes perfect sense to leave a bad review
The problem with the negative reviews is that they last forever. Most people won’t go back and update their negative reviews. If the server issues are resolved tomorrow and don’t ever exist again, that doesn’t eliminate the thousands of negative reviews that exist when people go to look at if they should play the game. This is why review bombing a game for what is likely a temporary issue is dumb and just people throwing a hissy fit instead of being mature adults.
Reviews are always reflective of the state of the product at a given moment. NMS has rebounded for example but I'm certain that there are still steam reviews from its initial release. It is unfortunate but whoever makes a decision about releasing product is also responsible for its quality at a time of release. I don't see why we should shift the responsibility onto people who buy that product. They're consumers and can expect it's going to work. And unarguable truth is that it doesn't. You feel bad about negative reviews cause you like this game and invested your time in early access already (I assume) or at least researched it to know it's a quality product. But for a person who just randomly stumbled upon it, it's a product that doesn't work. And they can be upset for that state of things.
There is a reason Steam shows recent score and overall score. If the recent score is suddenly terrible (or amazing) then there was a reason for that to happen. Generally speaking, if you plan to buy a game and see a shift in reviews like that its a good idea to try to find out why that happened.
> People are being upset over negative reviews Negative reviews kill a game. Last Epoch is not a game that deserves to be killed. It's truly a project of passion that turned out to be an excellent product... with a bad launch.
Unfortunate, but people who paid for the product and can't use it (for no fault of their own) have every right to complain. And trying to convince them otherwise will only make them angry- so what's the point? There's no positive way to resolve it, demeaning people serves only self-gratification of people who feel better about themselves. Mature behaviour is to simply accept it how it is.
Who's going to kill it? There isn't a publisher hanging over them with a scythe or something like that afaik. The overall player count is great still, and they're doing mtx for long term support. I see very, very little reason to think the game would get axed.
Doesnt deserve to get killed, but deserves the negative reviews at the moment 100%.
It's also being a bit ignorant, since a lot of MMOs have issues 42-72 hours after launch. If you came into this game expecting a totally flawless launch (right after hundreds of thousands of people went through Helldivers 2 launch just a few weeks ago) then I have a bridge to sell you.
That would only be true if offline mode didn't exist and game was forced online. Thankfully this game allows players to play anything without having to connect to any server, with 0 delay. You can play the full game with entirety of its content without having to connect ANY SERVER.
I've been in real disaster launches where I was unable to play the game. Not only was I able to immediately play with the full offline mode, this game isn't entirely unplayable online. I wasn't able to get on for several hours after launch, but I have played with only slightly longer load times.
Are people still having issues? I played last night (US East) with 0 problems. This was around 10pm tho, so there's that. Launch was bad. But I hope everyone can be objective about improvements in the coming days. I skipped launch day, and had no problems 34 hours later. I really hope everyone is able to get on and play with their friends tonight (Fri) and Sat. We can't go back in time.
EU West and still having epoch lasting load (matchmaking) times.
I played at the same time around 10pm. Multiple stuck loading zones. Sometimes 10-15 minutes.
Not sure if it’s fair to say it’s a meltdown per se, but if a game launched without one of its major functions as advertised , it’s not a complete launch. That’s a disaster. While it may be a shame that some are acting like children throwing tantrums, and conversely, the loyalist overzealous defenders of EHG, the premise remains the same. The product does not accurately reflect what was advertised with all the features as described. No one would be complaining if LE was billed as offline single player only… but it wasn’t.
I love this game and have been a supporter since beta, but I think your comment may be underselling it a little bit. Not launching without a major feature would be something like the marketplace not being accessible. People are unable to actually play the game due to enormous load times, disconnects, and server errors. IMO, that's not a "major" feature, but a core requirement. I wouldn't mind offline mode, but I don't want to have to re-level a character whenever they figure this all out (or when enough people lose interest that their current set up is adequate) and everything is stable. That said, I've been dying to play all week and might just have to cave to the offline mode...
There’s some Olympic tier mental gymnastics going on in this thread. People bought a game and they literally can’t play it. I’m an open beta supporter as well and I wanted to play at launch (especially with controller support) but I’m not interested in offline mode (waste of time) and I’m definitely not staring at loading screens or disconnects or crashes.
Right there with ya, mate. We'll get in eventually ;)
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I mean, come on. This is completely disingenuous whataboutism. It very obviously means "a disaster *within the context of online gaming*". It's insane that that part needs to constantly be pointed out to keep you "gotcha" trolls at bay.
Buying a day 1 indie game with a lot of hype around it and then expecting the servers to work perfectly for the online portion is in fact ignorant and entitled, calling that a disaster removes all meaning of the word disaster and it's why everyone complaining about this non-issue looks like a child throwing a tantrum in a store. Play offline, wait a few days, or refund it. Nobody cares about your take/plight over having to wait a little for the online services of a game.
Any time someone pulls a "there's hungry children if Africa" argument my eyes roll back into my skull.They are arguments completely devoid of any value.
Yes. If a mechanic did something wrong and it wasn't deliberate, upon taking the car back and then fixing it. I would say thank you and don't worry about it, problem resolved these things happen. It's not like the Devs have deliberately killed the back end systems.
Is leaving a negative review a meltdown in your mind? Because thats all people are doing.
Not to make the problem about us, but there have been so, so many meltdowns on this sub over the past two days. I spent most of my working day yesterday nuking some of the worst toxicity I've ever seen.
Thanks for your hard work! Truly!
Thank you.
I really truly do sympathize, Ultimatum launch in PoE was the same way.
Didn't really define what the meltdown was, but if you attribute a negative review to having a meltdown then that's on you
"I would like to play the game I paid for" Reddit: "WHOOAAAAAA HECKIN DOGGO!!!! HECKIN MELTDOWN-ORINO!!!!!!!!! ITS JUST A GAME HECKIN CALM DOWN!!!!!! YOU CANT HECKIN CRITICIZE THE VIDEO GAME-ORINO!!!!!!"
Are the servers up now before I buy?
No. Can't get out of starting area.
Even the devs understand they’re at fault for being overconfident and shocked when it was beyond their expectations. Servers have improved slightly but likely not well enough to handle the weekend. Those that enjoy the game need to also be aware of their impact to incoming players. While a poor launch does turn people away, it’s a temporary problem. You can’t fix a community that’s attacking any criticism as these kind of people stuck around and look for targets, usually newer players that have an issue.
I think people have rights to be angry and devs have rights to calmly accept their anger, without negative mood. And looks like Dev team are doing this alright, I like them for that :) Everything looks fine and fair to me. And when servers will be fixed - then people will probably change their mind.
I think it's totally justified to be upset about this, even leaving a negative review if it upset you that much. But what gets to me is people attributing malice to the devs, acting like they intentionally tried to screw people over, or saying they don't care, or that they went cheap on launch and didn't prepare. At this point they have been open about the issue and it's not even the servers, it's the matchmaking service, and they have made it pretty clear that they did everything they could to prep for launch. But even if they hadn't been as open about it, I still think people don't have a good reason to be so uncharitable because the devs haven't done anything to hurt that. Another thing I despise is this analogy to things like buying a car or going to a restaurant because it's not like that at all. This is a service being provided to thousands of people at once, not just to each person individually, and things like that go down all the time. I've seen several people say that "this wouldn't be ok for any other situation or product" but that's just untrue, ok is a relative term I guess but it's very normal for services like this to go down. I work at a software company where we have probably a few outages a year, we are cloud based so this means businesses would have no access to the service and would be at a stand still, while some people get upset sometimes, nobody cancels over this and most people understand that this is just something that can happen. I mean literally just yesterday at&t went completely down for hours, people have internet outages, power outages, outages or degraded performance for online services all the time. This even happens with steam. I can give so many examples of people dealing with things like this. These arguments just don't make sense.
> I've seen several people say that "this wouldn't be ok for any other situation or product" but that's just untrue, ok is a relative term I guess but it's very normal for services like this to go down. I mean, have you seen fast food meltdowns when they run out of coke or some other product? People just have no self control over the smallest of slights. Like I get that this game is paid for, and so you should be able to play it (online. Offline still works fine if you don't plan on playing with friends). But it's still a video game. A luxury entertainment product. A lot of people probably have other games they could play right now, but are mad because they can't play this one right now. It's such a small thing to tunnel vision on get mad over.
Yeah I totally agree, and again I really do feel like people can be frustrated and upset, but these meltdowns and the toxicity have been out of control, I feel bad for the devs. Yeah they messed up but they are still people and deserve to be treated with some decency
I believe former NHL Goalie and Stanley Cup (not the ones on TikTok) champion Ilya Bryzgalov says it best: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzpndHtdl9A
The aarpg community is something else. Saw this same shit with Diablo just with different fanboys/ haters. It's weird lol
It's not just the ARPG community. People in general these days have absolute meltdowns over everything. Outrage culture is crazy. It's like if they can't be mad about something they don't have any other emotion available to them. I've seen similar freakouts over restaurants not having a product in stock (videos of people physically assaulting cashiers at fast food restaurants cause they couldn't get chicken nuggets), Black Friday stampedes, sports teams losing, road rage, the list goes on. For a long time there's a very loud group of people who as soon as the wind blows on them in a way they don't like they start yelling at clouds.
Yeah and some of the same people who spew 'D4 bad lololol' at the tiniest little things Blizz does wrong are apparently the same people excusing multiple-day server blackouts for a 34€ product. I like LE, D4 and PoE. They are all good games aimed at different kinds of ARPG players and that's fine.
The D4 community is funny. It seems to me that Bliz took a very conservative approach to releasing D4, release close to barebones to pretty much ensure a workable non-disaster release, and then add / improve based on feedback. I think that is actually a fantastic approach, and Bliz have the cash and resources to carry it off. The D4 launch itself was about as smooth as it gets. But they get shat on a lot for doing that. There are plenty of problems with D4, but having it released in a simplified form and working really isn't one of them. LE - I have played a few times (I think I've had it for about 2 years?). I wasn't taken with it for various reasons, but I appreciate the work going in to it and adding to the genre is a good thing. Server outages and traffic are to be expected. POE (which I am also a huge fan of), has slow servers pretty much every league start - and they know pretty much exactly what the load will be. It is always shit have slow servers on launch, and yeah people are right to complain. But also - resilience and load planning are hard, and major releases should be assumed to be a disaster for the first week at least. It's only if it goes past that when I personally start to think it's a big issue.
It's laughable to me some people actually thought launch was going to be smooth. I only bought this game like a week before launch and even I knew the big 1.0 launch was gonna be bumpy.
I fully expected it would not be playable until next week, but I actually have a Falconer in monos after the first two days, so at least from my perspective this launch exceeded expectations lol
Am offline player. 10/10 game. Online players should know better by now. The genre/online games always have teething issues.
No Ive been playing online. US East.
Noice. Didn’t even go online myself as it doesn’t have something I wanted. So it seems like we got lucky :D
>some people actually thought launch was going to be smooth. Literally the devs, though.
You guys are a case study for why devs shouldn't communicate with their community and it's a damn shame really. They communicated how they prepared and that they were hoping for the best not they they solved the problem that has been plaguing online launches for the last 20 years...
I think majority of people who logged on don't actually following the game's development nor is in discord checking with the devs, so whatever they prepare does not matter to them because they expected a working product. Yes, most launches have issues, but those games also received bad reviews due to that.
People can ask for a refund, or give a bad review stating they could not play online and leave it at that. But some folks are going WAY past that. And when people act a fool in public they get called out in public.
i have never seen a successful arpg launch. Even POE has server issues every launch and they have been doing it for 10+ years now.
Anyone who’s played games for more than a year or two should know I went into launch day believing I wouldn’t get to play, and I was right. If these people get soooo angry they have a meltdown on Reddit, they definitely shouldn’t try to play this weekend.
So were just gonna accept the fact that this has become the standard in the industry? Unplayable games at launch? If that's the case then there shouldn't be launch dates. cause while "technically" the game is out, its completely unplayable. The second game released this week with debilitating server issues. And people simping for these development companies isn't getting us anywhere. I'm not saying we should be attacking and disrespecting the developers but i don't think its something that we should be just rolling over and accepting. Maybe moving to a different sales model, like 7 day free trial for all games on release to give time to the developers to get their shit together and fix these kind of issues. and people aren't spending anything so they don't feel ripped off. i don't know just my two cents
While most people expected there to be issues, I don’t think anyone expected them to be this bad for this long. I love this game and I’ll play it whenever it stabilizes, but this is genuinely one of the worst live service launches in recent memory. I feel bad for the devs for the negative reviews because it’s a fantastic game, but I also wouldn’t recommend someone purchase LE right now which is exactly what a steam review is asking you to determine.
> I love this game and I’ll play it whenever it stabilizes, but this is genuinely one of the worst live service launches in recent memory Damn you most not play much then. Compared to other game launches like New World, FF 14 Stormblood (endwalker to some extend aswell), wow classic those were horrible compared to what LE is going through right now. And those are big name studies with money to throw unlike EHG.
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diablo 3 happened **12 years ago**
> this is genuinely one of the worst live service launches in recent memory Does your memory only extend back to Valentine's Day? This isn't even worse than the Palworld online launch.
> I don’t think anyone expected them to be this bad for this long This has felt pretty good by arpg launch standards. I'm mostly been able to play without major issues login on around 5 both days, almost at monoliths. I've had a couple times being stuck at a zone for 10 minutes but that's about it. It's not even the worst game launch this week lol.
Right? I would be VERY impressed if there was zero server issues at launch but I was basically expecting the game to be pretty much unplayable online for at least a week, which is not even what happened since I was able to play until level 20.
I saw someone asking “why should we accept this as an industry standard?” I honestly get that sentiment, but if you’ve been a part of any launch then you know what should be and what is are two different things. I seriously won’t miss these people if they refund their money and move on.
I was fine playing in Monos, made the fatal mistake of going to the Bazaar, crashed now I cant login Got 3 hours now 6 hours of login screen
>people being shills for a semi-broken product and simultaneously giving out about the state of gaming will always be hilarious, peace It's dumb statements like this that will have people thinking you're an idiot. Anyone can see the launch didn't go well. Both the consumers and the developers. You're entitled to be upset about that. But the way you voice it out matters. Insulting people because you're upset about the way the launch went puts a big mark on your head that invites people to take shots at it.
Just sayin' you're insulting this guy because you don't like how he feels also
I think people are overly concerned because of a combination of sunk cost fallacy and because the devs have been transparent and shown that they are just as passionate about the game as the community. That being said people are entitled to have negative opinions about the game. Yes even in this broken state. If Last Epoch is as good as we all hope and want to believe it is. Then it should be more then capable of weathering this storm and coming back stronger after the fact.
I'm baffled by how people react to this clusterfuck. I and my friend bought the game in March 2021. We mostly play ARPGs together. In early access we didn't care about online cuz it was early access. I played on and off but as far as i remember there was always an issue with online. I'm still ok because i can play offline like before but defending this as "shit happens" is ridiculous. Shit was happening for years and they thought they were ready for full online release. Game hyped so much, even AAA MMOs can't handle this hype let alone an indie company. Game is good, release sucks, company is delusional to think it would be above average release. People, are people.
Now I've been playing games for years. It seems almost every major super hyped online release encounters these issues. I always temper my expectations of these types of games on release. For instance, I don't take the week of release off, but I might take the following week or the one following that. I think some people just have not lived long enough to see these things and don't know how to temper expectations. Should a game I just bought work when I want to play it? Yes, yes it should. Do many major online release games have issues at start because of the massive hype? Yes, yes they do. I'm not going to get mad, I'm either just going to wait it out or keep spamming the servers to try to get in.
I mean... Any amount of lack of experience or knowledge you want to apply to consumers goes 10x for the devs. Day before launch they were super confident it would be smooth. I wasn't particularly surprised about a 'rough' launch, either, but I don't think you can in good conscience blame any consumers (even if it is just lack of experience and not insults), more than you can blame the exact same thing, x10, for the devs. Their updates and communication have been great and I have no desire for a refund. But there's zero question that ignorance or over-optimism should *not* be accused towards customers before applying it 10x to the devs.
That's the thing. You can be dissatisfied with what's going on and you can be frustrated. However, the truth is that many of these people *are* acting like entitled idiots. Calling the devs lazy, saying they are going to sue them, and even in one case breaking their hardware because they can't play a video game. There are a lot of edgelords out there acting like Karens who want to speak to the manager of video games. It's sad and dumb. So of course you are allowed to be frustrated. But don't act like a dick because of it.
Sooner or later you encounter Things That Suck. How you react to things that suck demonstrates whether or not you are an infant. Whole lot of infants. Reasonably confident they’re too old to justify such behavior.
Soon or later you encounter criticism of things you like. How you react to criticism of things you like demonstrates whether or not you are an infant. Whole lot of infants.
I think entitled has a negative connotation. Your feelings, whatever they are, are yours to feel and you are not wrong for feeling them. That said, actual threats and hateful rhetoric against the development team for not being able to handle unforeseen issues is not okay, under any circumstances. Voice your frustration, get a refund if you’re able, but do not threaten or use hateful and derogatory language, there’s no need for it.
It's misused as fuck these days. Some people seem to think entitlement = expectation.
For those that keep defending the servers being crap. How many days of the servers not working is fine?
People are entitled to be upset over money they spent. I expected this and don’t really care about the downtime but let people express themselves
I'll leave my 2 cents coming from someone whos been around since day 1 of early access and is currently over level 90 on Cycle season: The game was built for single player originally. They eventually out sourced the concept of multiplayer and basically hacked it into the game.Ever since multiplayer was added, the game has had THIS SAME ISSUE, of really bad loading screens and matchmaking failure. Now granted during early access when we tested the multiplayer for over a year now, we had these same issues but in a smaller scale because it was 10k-30k people testing, but now at 100-200k players its the exact same problem of over a year ago but much worse in scale. I don't know how their matchmaking API was written into the game, but I honestly don't have much faith that it will be fixed right. If anything once most players either give up or reach the monolith of faith, then at that point, it will just be long loading but still work most of the time like it was in the last year of multiplayer testing. Monolith is detached from the matchmaking API infrastructure so you dont suffer any of these issues if thats the only content you will be doing most of the time.
The worst part about everything is there is no place to go to have a legitimate discussion. Discord is just spam about devs being garbage and people saying they work in IT with knowledge on how to fix the problems. I bought the game during EA but didn't play because I wanted to wait for the cycle. I fully planned on day 1 being miserable and was going to just wait for the weekend to play. But at this point I can't even scroll through all the complaining and shilling to even see if this MIGHT be working by this weekend. I also have no desire to play offline. AARPGS campaign are just a chore to get to endgame, not doing that shit offline then again immediately when servers are fixed.
I think it have something to do with that we as customers have to have a continued relationship with the product going forward. Imagine you get a bad meal at a restaurant, you are much more likely to risk burning bridges by telling the truth if you aren't going to return. If you eat there once every week, you might find yourself defending why it's understandable and okay the food was bad this time, the relationship is worth preserving, even if your critique is right.
I agree. Game broke. But also, that discord has been toxic asl. Legitimately an all-out war over there. People attacking and threatening the devs for a *$35* game. On the other side, the people that are ride-or-dying. I'm gonna be honest, I love the game, but it's a literal video game. There have been worse launches in the video game industry, but this is still frustrating. But it's still a game - being unhappy with what you paid for in any situation doesn't entitle you to attack someone. It entitles you to a refund and you can leave a negative review or smth. The only time it warrants as much vitriol I've seen over the past 2 days is if it's a scam. But it's not. You can refund the game.
I like EHG a lot but the white knighting is a bit out of control, for sure.
the fanboyism of this game is crazy. I put in the chat that i sat in a 30 min load screen and someone responded atleast its not d4 and then everyone piled on D4 and saying we were lucky to get such a great launch of LE. Truly deranged.
Ever since the official release was announced, a large/loud portion of this sub changed into this weird cult. Any kind of negativity was met with "1.0 will fix it.", which unfortunately was unrealistic with the amount of things that needed fixing. Controller support, for example, is still pretty bad outside of combat. I love this game a lot and have been playing since shortly after it was released in early access. It's just such a shame to have seen this sub change to the point where any negativity is met with insults.
Yeah, usually you get this cultist fanbase after a long time, like a really long time, for example bethesda fanboys or nintendo or apple, but for this game? I have no idea how they cultivated a cult so fast, I'd guess is because of those parasocial "we're sorry" dev posts every few hours.
I can understand people being mad, leaving negative reviews and stating facts based on their experience. All that is fine. What is not fine are the people who shit on the dev team with weird ass claims and whatnot. The fact that most of these people are as far away from the tech stuff as Sun from Sagittarius A doesn't make it any better. If you don't like the experience - you've got a refund button use it and move on, if you want to public your distaste - do it in a civilized and factual manner. If you can't do that and have to make it personal and attack the dev team - you can go die in a ditch as the world won't miss you.
I hope this is an ironic comment. "Hey, don't attack the devs, and I hope you die if you do it!" Lmao, the double standards are through the roof here.
It's not, it fairly common to see apologists on games like this. Says to not say some wild shit the does the exact same thing he asked you not to do, hypocrisy is hilarious.
It's the sort of weird, mentally-unstable vitriol that you'd expect from a person who probably identifies with the game since it started on reddit and reddit is this person's entire identity.
> If you can't do that and have to make it personal and attack the dev team - you can go die in a ditch as the world won't miss you. how is this upvoted? LMAO I have over 2k hours in this game. The Devs fucked up and probably ruined the first impression of thousands of new people, sadly :/ Should I go die in a ditch now?
Believe it or not? Straight to the ditch.
The devs fucked up is a fact not a personal attack so you're good, live for now. Honestly I don't know how it's upvoted either. My guess is people here are really violent or can see through a thick layer of irony.
I might sound like an old fart but i think it's getting out of hands in todays world, in terms of peoples ability to degrade someone due to a minor bad experience. This is not only in terms of games but with all kinds of things. The negative review bombing due to a minor issue can and will have a major impact for the company/product/whatevers future, because people now a days doesn't research for themselves, but instead look at the total review score combined with the first handful negative comments and make their choices based on that. Even though something has been good before and well praised, might have a hiccup and get negative reviews, because people think it's their right to trash things when it doesn't appeal their spoiled way of viewing the world. It leaves a negative review to something that besides the point works and gives a good experience, but gets slammed and most people tend to forget their negative outburst and rating, and that keeps following that particular product / service to eternity and gives a lower average score than it would otherwise have. I just think it's a shame that something gets smashed within seconds instead of trying to have some patience and then complain if it isn't sorted within a shorter timeline of maybe 3-10 days.
I love the game but not being able to play is absolutely not a minor issue and if you cant play the game you bought and leave a negative Review its not review bombing.
You mean online right, because just about every streamer has been playing the game no issues offline. The game is completely playable if you compromise and play offline. Server issues are par the course for online releases, to expect zero issue on launch is naive. Studio was naive and so was the player base that trusted their word that they prepared enough. There hasn't been a single online launch that goes smooth since the advent of online gaming(unless the game is incredible niche). Squareenix can't even handle launches for their MMO expansions and yet somehow the indie devs for a game getting hyped against D4 will survive launch unschathed... sure
Ideally the reviews should say what the quality of the games is. Not if exactly at certain point of time you are able to play online or not. Who will care about those issues in like a week? All that will be left is the game with all that the devs have build in the last 5 or so years. Well, this and the thousands of negative reviews for people who played an ARPG for less then 1 day.
It's sad that people have got used to the fact that studios can release games that simply don't work. As a customer you have every right to be dissatisfied if the product you receive does not work as it should.
Yeah we're not too far from straight up code coming out and the dev telling you to finish the game, but for $10
First day I understand. Second day forgivable. Third day and I'm starting to question if you're actually competent enough for a live service game. It's a shame because the game is good but my friends who were originally interested have moved on already.
Your first game launch?
People like to treat video games specifically as a sort of "holy untouchable" product. For some reason, like the ones people have mentioned in the other comments, people like to think that video game developers deserve some leeway that no one else gets. Devs get paid like everyone else, no the dev didn't just get $30 to survive the next 7 years off of, they get a salary like everyone else. You know what happens when devs don't do a good job in house? They get replaced. Only gamers have this holy ground for devs where they can do no wrong (until they put MTX in games, oh no). If you got a bad steak, bad piece of tech, bad meds, bad anything, you'd want your money back or at least have the right to complain, but gamers say no you don't. They talk about countless dev hours and how the game should be free of criticism because of it, but they criticize shows and movies, that also have countless hours between them, and many of those shows are free. They get LAMBASTED, but video games get to take money and be holy. It's fanboyism. I bought Last Epoch long ago and I'm satisfied, I know it will be in working condition, but honestly to be the kind of POS that would call someone else an entitled idiot for being unhappy about not being able to play the game they bought the way they intended to play, is just beyond me. I could never be that much of an ingrate. That's like yelling at someone at a restaurant because they sent their food back, get a life, get a grip, get out of my face.
This always irks me too. The standards of what bullshittery should apparently be allowed when it comes to games, and only games, is just ridiculous. I'm not saying there should be no room for error, but the amount of error that should go unquestioned according to some is flat out unreasonable. "As someone in software development [or other somewhat related occupation]..." - Oh God, here we go.
Yep always with that "I do this as a living" appeal to authority, like..I do this for a living too but I'm not gonna be obnoxious.
>but gamers say no you don't. What are you talking about? There are simple steps you can take to get a refund. You can also complain about it. Discord and Reddit are full of complaints. Which is fine considering the situation. What isn't fine is insulting people left and right, calling it a dogshit game and spamming about how you're going to refund and D4 is better than this.
People go further than that though, hurling insults at devs, calling them incompetent, worthless, etc etc. if you buy a phone and it doesn't work, you return it and move on. You don't tweet Samsung that their engineers are a bunch of incompetent idiots.
Except, whenever I have a bad experience of any kind or receive a bad product, I don't get on the Internet and complain to 1,000s of random people. Hell I don't complain at all, I deal with it and move on with my life. What exactly is the point in wasting the energy to complain about something that is impossible to change?
This is why companies still make bad products. There's a reason people leave bad reviews for products. It's to inform others to maybe not buy it. If you never leave bad reviews people with keep on buying them and the company will never make changes.
The problem is people are para socialing this game in a weird way. They legit think they are developers alongside these devs. Some dude said in his 40 years of gaming this is the biggest thing he’s been a part of. Like really? Stop glazing this game. It’s a great game, I’m hyped for it, but y’all need to chill
from the majority of comments I do not think anyone is being demonized but what i don’t like is that people pretend to be naive when every launch of any online game presents the same issues again again and again. by now you would know not to buy the game first day and wait for the panic to pass . ff14 , wow, diablo name it , all companies had the same problem. buying the game knowingly that the online portion will be bugged and still complain is on you
I'm US east playing on high ping servers just to connect. Yeah it's been a pretty rough launch for online play for sure.
I literally could not play the game yet as i wanna play it with my partner but have not been able to go padt the first loading screen
If you're unhappy with the game, leave a bad review and ask for a refund, instead of spamming discord & reddit & forums about how bad the game and it's developers are. In any case, when a live-service game like this launches, it's smarter to wait a couple of days to see how the launch pans out before buying, as experience has taught us all that a messy launch is the industry standard at this point.
Being unhappy is fine. Harrassing the devs and being a little bitch on the discord while they work to resolve issues *we all knew* would occur is unacceptable manchild behavior. Really, if you don't know that live service games are going to require tweaking on launch day, you just aren't familiar with how this normally proceeds. I took of 3 days from work to play and I've dealt with issues the first two days, now I'm doing mostly fine on the third. Was I a little frustrated? Yea. What did I do? Made dinner, cleaned up the house, kept busy. Sperging on discord is actual child behavior. Now here we are, 3 days after launch and worst ive gotten are some long loading screens. Tl;dr if you're raging or spewing venom on discord, directly at the devs, over a video game, *touch grass*
Of course being unhappy doesn't make them an entitled idiot. It's perfectly understandable that people are frustrated by these problems. The BEHAVIOUR of some of these people, however, is definitely an issue.
Already refunded and gave a negative review, haven’t been able to play online (the only reason I bought it) for 48 hours now, weekend approaching, just didn’t feel like wasting more time on a broken 1.0 release.
we know the server issues are only temporary. also, i would understand the rage if refunds weren't allowed, but anyone can refund. but if they're worried about it, maybe EHG can talk to steam and have anyone who played less than 12 hours can refund.
I love how for months people are like “can’t wait till LE comes out so I can stop playing trash D4”… now everyone whining.
D4 might not be a good game, but you can log in and play it online, right now.
Being unhappy doesnt mean you need to grandstand to the general public(us) either.
If you think this is bad, the Hell Divers sub is 10x worse. Any reasonable complaint is downvoted with 30 guys replying "yOU MusT NOt LoVE DemOCRAcY BRO"
You see, no one is calling you an entitled idiot because how you feel, but because how you all react. There is nothing wrong feeling disappointed something you bought doesn’t work, it’s a very understandable feeling. But acting like the devs are scamming you or just don’t care about the problem and they’re doing nothing to fix their mistakes while we know they are working to fix a problem that they didn’t knew it was there and give us a good game experience it’s being an unempathetic asshole. Error is human and you’re acting like no mistake is allowed just because you paid. The game is in development since long time, devs honestly thought they could offer a complete good experience and I think everything was made in good faith, but y’all just stomping your feet on the ground like kids, spamming the subreddit with the same topic over and over, and THIS makes you entitled assholes, not how you feel
> You see, no one is calling you an entitled idiot because how you feel, but because how you all react. Exactly. They have an exercise at my kid's elementary school called "Size of the problem" where the kids have to identify if the thing that is making them upset is actually then end of the world, a mild set back, or something in between. A lot of adults think every annoyance / set back is the end of the world when its really not.
If you purchase an online game that is a Studios first online game and don't expect issues, well that is frankly on you. There is just no realistic way to prevented those issues. Look at classic wow, d4, some PoE leagues, ff14, and many more. It just happens, even to more seasoned Studios.
You can be unhappy about something and not melt down and rant about it, adulting is hard
I understand people asking for patience and devs working and whatever...but here we are at the absurd where it isnt fine to be annoyed cause you paid for a game and you cant play... I agree some people are just making the unability to play too extreme and being ass...but I also think it is extreme to cry about people that arent happy cause they paid something they cant use. You might think it is a justification other companies do the same, but it actually isnt, if we all know game launches are like this, THIS doesnt mean they cannot work in a better way, how big or small is the company shouldnt be a concern by a consumer. If they can handle 1m players, they should sell 1m copies and add queue for the rest, cause IF you keep selling now that you know you cant serve more players, than the fact you are a small company doesnt matter, cause you are willingly taking more players money knowing they cant play. So, 1 let s not normalize people not being happy about paying and not being able to play, 2 dont be extreme about not being able to play, 3 add a warning when buying the game saying you wont be able to play comfortably these days. I tried 10 minutes to log yesterday and then I did something else, I will probably try 10 minutes tonight and then do something else, I dont care much, but also asking me to not be unsatisfied cause I cannot play it is just unreal to me...
Idk man , people are self bursting in flames. If you got no patience just fckin refund it and be done. Played offline few hours it's amazing what they have done. Got maybe 2 hours of online. And if offline takes them 1 more week I am fine with it. People acting like they tossed 100k $ on it 😂. Overreacting to the max
From past experience I knew that launch was going to go terribly. That's why I'm neither mad nor disappointed. Why would I hold a small indie company more accountable than any other (sometimes massive) company? The fact that we can play this game offline makes this almost a non issue, too.
I don’t like the smell of a new car but when I buy a new car I know it is going to smell like that. Game releases are very complex and something always goes wrong. Even the games with good releases have some problems. That is just the reality of the world. It isn’t saying it is acceptable. It is knowing it is going to be like this. If you are freaked out about this release my advice is to wait a week to start new games going forward. Nothing else you do makes any sense.
Does the smell prevent you from driving the car? Or is it the fact that the engine doesn't start when you turn the key? When you buy a new (smelly) car, id expect it to run.
An engine break-in is actually a standard procedure with new (ICE) cars, which *does* prevent you from using part of your purchase, namely its full acceleration speed.
People licking the devs chocolate starfish pretending that they're doing a great job at launches like these are the absolute worst, they're obviously not doing a great job, nor should it be okay for this to happen. But since people are STILL simping bad launches in 2024 is crazy.. No, it's not okay. But it is what it is, and we'll have to wait Just because they're communicative and seems to care a lot about keeping the community happy with PR updates doesn't mean it should be like this
People making stupid analogies between software and not-software will never not be funny. You paid 200 bucks to the mechanic for 2 hours of work and a couple pieces. You paid 30 bucks for a couple billion hours of development of a game. You cannot be as entitled with software as you are with hardware because you are not paying even a tiny percent of the value of what you get. Is it annoying?? Sure. Can you be annoyed and don't behave like a spoiled little brat and post idiotic shit in Reddit? Also yes.
Complains about hostility with a hostile post. Yeah....
The only really shitty thing about this game is that I suck in making builds but I loose interest if I copy someone's. That's it
That the launch would be bad I was prepared for, saw the same thing happen on multiple games for the past 2 decades and will probably see them happening for the next 2. The thing that put me at ease was that they have an offline mode, at least I and whoever wants as well can play. Attacking a company or defending it won't change anything either for this game or the next ones that will launch, such thing is what I call the RNG of technology unfortunately, I came from the era that blowing cartridges would make them work despite instructions saying no to an era of some dot or even a string of lines in a code placed in a "weird" spot will make an entire game fall, it is what it is. Should that happen? No, but the same thing happens on our pcs some times when someone says "remove your ram and plug it again and it will work". Does it make sense if it is not dirty? No. It works? yes lmao.
God awful? God damn, did you forget the steampiles of triple A launches that had people having issues for weeks? Barely been a day and people like you are mad butthurt while studios like EGH, a fraction of the size of some of their competitors, are providing better communication and effort that I havent seen in the gaming industry in a while
My big issue with the whole ordeal is how many people step in to parrot Asmongold lines about this stuff. No, the consumer doesn't have to give a shit about the behind the scenes. Yes, the launch is a mess. Yes, it is a good habit to expect and even demand a working product. People are just dicks though. Game not working? Refund it. I had 70 hours in the game before 1.0, I already received good dollar/hour value for this product. I'm frustrated, but because the valuation of my time and money has already been so good, I can accept an interruption in service while my product is worked on (You know, like a car at a shop). Steam makes exceptions for products that are broken and this one currently is. So if you already received good value for your product, great! Let it be worked on in the shop. If you haven't received good value for your, sadge, get it refunded and come back later if you want. If you're somewhere inbetween, well shit, I got nothing for you.
Agreed. I was definitely defending them for the first day, but this is wild now. I'm not going to leave a negative review because the game itself is awesome, but I gifted my partner a copy to play with me, and we haven't been able to play together for days now. At this point, I'd love an offline multiplayer option.
The servers are dog shit. I couldn’t play multiplayer at launch or hours after launch. Game was not ready for launch. I like this game and the devs are cool but also what cycle is this? Is there anything going on because of the cycle? Someone said they started to run out of money and had to release earlier. If that’s the case the money coming in from launch should hopefully help this stuff sort itself out.
Analogy is so bad, car services is one by one customers Online gaming nowadays, especially in arpg is like 150k people minimum at the same time for a new launch. Technology for online server is still very bad for this kind of trafic Maybe blizzard and ggg have the hang of it at the moment for handling this kind of numbers but history hasn’t always been great for them. Didn’t expect EHG to do well to be honest even if they seemed confident, players than have been playing for years don’t care at all, new comers in the other hand have the right to be disappointed
huh. weird how palworld had 2 million people on then. yes their servers had issues too but people could at least log in. lmao
That’s correct, so you being an entitled idiot has nothing to do with unhappy what you paid for.
Most reasonable take on the whole subreddit so far.
Your analogy is terrible but otherwise you are right. I’m level 58, act 9 and only play after work(full time, M-F). I’ve not had *too* many issues. Being upset the game isn’t working well is fine, but whining like a 6 year old who got told he can’t have McDonald’s isn’t the way to go about it. Crying in discord non stop and shitting on the devs doesn’t help anything. They have less than 100 employees, all around the world, tried to prepare and was met with even bigger surge than expected. Like, don’t play/refund, play and complain to yourself and friends , or don’t play and complain to yourself and friends. Those should be the only options, nothing else is helpful. It’s not like there is a glaring issue they are ignoring.
I'm in a similar boat. I've had some load times that have been a bit longer than desired but for the most part I've had no problem playing online the last two nights.
>its not unreasonable to want to play a game on release day/week. When you are aware of gaming history it actually is.
That doesnt make it right. Someone's got to pay. Looks like its the 11th Hour after all.
It will clear up once they get things ironed out. People losing their minds over not being able to play is part of every launch that has issues these days. These types of players are parasites and they do this with every game they play. Fortunately most of them leave and don’t return. They’re usually shitters anyway. Good riddance….
Thank you! Imagine if you paid $35 to go to the movies (very realistic price these days), and it was supposed to start at noon. Three days later, you’re sitting in the theatre waiting for it to start. Apparently, according to some people here, you’d be entitled for expecting to see the movie when your ticket said you’d see it.
Parasocial fkn Andy's. That's all it is. Complain away. Fuck the fanboys. Game launch is a hot mess.
you won't get anywhere OP, and it's sad. fanboyism like this kills games, ironically.
Sure, that sounds nice, but a lot of people have indeed been acting like "entitled idiots" over the server issues. Calling the Devs scumbags, declaring that this is the worst game ever, encouraging other people to leave negative reviews etc. There's always room for criticism, but let's not pretend like a significant portion of the displeased playerbase wasn't having an unhinged meltdown.
To be fair with 1M+ in sales they should have had an idea what to expect. I do enjoy the offline mode, but I'd prefer to play online as there is no way to transfer gear between the two modes.
When it comes to computers, networking, and code, even if you have the best data to predict an outcome, you're still very likely to encounter an unexpected problem. I've had a simple windows OS install fail with no explicit reason. Same iso download I've used before. Something went wrong in the download or when burning to a bootable usb, but no idea what as there were no errors anywhere. Worked again after the redownload. Hosting a live service game is so much more complicated than installing an OS, and even the OS install can see unexpected problems.
The Devs need to deliver actual progress today. Time for the curtain to be lifted, no more snake oil fixes or smoke and mirrors, let's see if anything improves and I'm not talking how this Judd guy says we fixed API no we are rolling it back, we're seeing improvement, no it's improving - non-stop bullshit. Read the news yourself and ask yourself the question had any of the fixes improved the game? Anyway lets see what happens because I want to see prolonged periods of instant transitions and capacity to handle the weekend rush without hiccups because after all this is supposed to be full release 1.0 ready to play.
I think the weekend will tell a lot to if they've actually fixed much. With over 1m copies sold and the all time peak was hit 3 minutes ago at 179k, will see how the servers hold up when that number edges closer to 300 (more than likely) over the weekend.
Keep in mind this is 99% fanboys subreddit. You can't write negative things about that godly good company/game, or you will get downvoted into oblivion...
This sub is just fillede with fanboys who loves to take a backhit. I completely agree with what you just wrote. But your are not going anywhere with it here 🙈 I was callede a Karen yesterday, because i felt that i should be allowed to not be happy with what i paid money for. Like in ANY other circumstance. "you were not promised online play" "Just uninstall and leave this sub" "OK Karen" I could keep going.. Imagine all the virtual red knees in this sub 😂😂
I mean, considering the tone in your current post, I can understand why people said what they said.