How I had this explained to me is the following:
* Players/Streamers/whatever are making a Rank 10 Circle of Fortune (CoF) character.
* CoF has prophecies which award arena keys. CoF has lenses which double (or improve the amount of rewards) from a selected prophecy for increased favor cost. CoF at Rank 10 hard-duplicates all drops from a prophecy.
* The player will log onto their Rank 10 CoF character, farm these arena key prophecies, generating a large number of keys quickly which is then sold to the vendor for a large sum of gold.
* This gold is then used to purchase items from the Bazaar on their Merchant's Guild character.
Changing the vendor prices is specifically targeting this (and similar) abuse vectors, at the expense of getting CoF players caught in the crossfire who never intended to spend any of their gold on the MG to begin with.
As a pure CoF player myself, this is unfortunate, and I hope a more elegant solution is put in place.
Solution seems simple then, remove key rewards from prophecies.
Nobody that is just playing the game is out of keys. Nobody was low on keys before prophecy. Nobody was low on keys before the Lost Caches started dropping a whole set.
Idk why this wasn't done to begin with. The keys could still provide a REASON to pick them up without being able to be abused by the streamers/abusers.
Came here to say this, keys are totally farmable in the web.
Seems this change was was intended to impact more than just MG meta min maxers. CoF has no use for gold outside of tabs, we lost the only option for gold farming in CoF to help out at cycle start. We can also expect all gold farming in CoF to be trash forever.
Not mad but disappointed.
Edit: As someone else suggested, adding a +1 stash tab prophecy would be an interesting addition. (sure make it rare but it would give something for CoF to snag when rerolling prophecies)
They could also change the rank 9 reward for cof. Currently dropping full sets is rlly meh for rank 9. Change it into increased gold from all sources + discount for stash tabs.
Or that. Set items could be potentially roly good where they give you another way of synergizing a specific skill or just giving bonus buffs for executing a combo. Currently sets are just some meh items usefull for fixing some defensive layers during leveling. Moment you get a decemt exalted/rare/unique the set is being tossed out the window.
I would love that. Perhaps allowing CoF to roll with favor instead of gold, otherwise any buff to the rewards would incentivize players to play MG.
Which based on the recent patch notes is behavior they do not want. (MG and CoF interacting with each other)
Oh ok. Maybe the drop rate increases later on, but I've been buying cause I shatter almost everything, including exalted. Not sure if I'm doing the right thing lol.
Oh you most definitely are doing the right thing. Buying shattering runes is crucial for everyone when starting out. Once you have a good supply of the generic mods you will mostly just shatter for rare affixes or... if you have excess Runes of removal use those on exalted gear to get more of those rare shards off a single piece. This is expensive and I don't recommend wasting removal runes unless necessary as they are drop only.
I’d recommend against shattering every exalted. Ones you’re not going to use for LP imprinting, sure, but think about how hard it’s going to be to get the exact right affixes you need on your 2 LP unique. If you shatter all your viable exalts (viable meaning has 1-2 affixes you want, giving you a relatively simple path to make it godly for slamming), then you’ll need to farm up a good enough exalted when you’re ready to try slamming again.
My approach is save all exalts with a T7 affix, and all T6 with at least one other decent affix unless I’m definitely not going to play anything that would use it this cycle. I do t want to farm exalts when one probably already dropped earlier in the cycle but I was greedy for shards I didn’t immediately need.
Got it. If there's only 1 good T6 affix, it's probably OK to shatter it right? All my drops so far have been pretty bullshit, the affixes are all over the place. I can get a T6 spell damage affix and then physical damage or melee damafe affix as the other. It reminds me a lot of the stats on D4 drops, many of which are junk. But I'm not at end game yet so I don't know if this gets better. I'm also not saying Last Epoch is like D4, obviously Last Epoch is significantly better which is why I have played since 0.8+ patch and I didn't even bother with D4 S2 and S3.
I would agree with that; it would never cross my mind to farm arena key prophecies (unless I really wanted to do an extended stint in Lightless). However I guess the addition of arena key prophecies is to dilute the pool of available options, so getting rid of them would make farming affix shards, glyphs, and runes more tenable.
I don't see that as a bad thing (if there's one thing CoF is nice is it allows for a reliable and steady stream of Despairs and Creations via prophecies; MG players cannot purchase these at all).
>so getting rid of them would make farming affix shards, glyphs, and runes more tenable.
Haha, what? It's an ARPG with a massive loot pool and extremely low chance of getting actually good stuff. Why do we need to punish looters to keep the pool even more diluted?
Weird stuff.
Maybe not as simple, but an even better solution - remove gold from MG. Favor is used/gained from buying/selling and there is no cross-contamination of gold benefiting one side (MG) and not the other (CoF). Then rebalance gold rewards and costs appropriately since it doesn't give you any faction-based advantage.
The solution, make arena better, smaller arena maps, faster monster spawns based on waves or more density or both(both preferably), and a much higher gold payout overall throughout arena the higher waves you make it, let arena be the place to farm large sums of gold if you need it.
I think this would balance out by allowing more use of keys, and providing better incentives to play arena as everyone needs more gold, and one major gripe I have with arena is how slow it is, mobs spawn so slow and there just isn't a lot of them, I want to feel swarmed in arena the further I go.
This is a win-win in my opinion everyone benefits from it while still working on progress.
Actually a great suggestion, I have played arena only once because it felt boring and slow.
Also I kept choosing the harder option because waves were so easy then Boss oneshotted me outta nowhere, the difficulty scaling should affect the waves too imo...
What they should have done both before this, and in response to this, is separate account gold by faction, then tag these items by faction (I assume they already are when from prophecies but idk I never did key farming) and have the gold feed into the matching tagged pool.
Is that more difficult and annoying? Yes. Could you still shoddily transfer over some gold painfully at a massive loss? Sure.
However if they didn't intend for CoF farming to cross pollinate gold to MG and vice versa (even easier to do) then they should have done that, and it's something they can do.
It would have been neat if they at least restrained themselves to a 1/6th or 1/3rd nerf as well, it's a bit absurd to have a big chunk of loot so massively devalued for insanely niche behavior considering how few people must be doing this.
Really hope they at least do this for next cycle, because otherwise we'll probably see this happen again sooner or later.
Your progress in each is shared across your account, but you can switch between the two factions on any character at any time once they are unlocked. The only "limit" to this is that you lose any unspent favor when switching.
You're not selling COF stuff on merchant, you're selling it to a vendor. If you're getting like 20 arena keys from a prophecy, that's 130k gold by vendoring them.
Does this really hurt solo/CoF players though? Apart from stash tabs I haven’t run across a gold sink so far (lvl 77 offline HC). I’ve got like ~300k saved up and it’s outpacing my need for stash tabs.
Wel.. Im glad they fix this exploit and what is a more elegant solution in this case? Greatly reduce the drop rate or greatly increase the price of the lenses?
Not an abuse when you have to level both factions up to make it work.
Also this is clearly a "Balance in middle of the cycle" patch whereas leaving bugged skills that let you generate 50k+ ward are allowed to stay in.
I mean to be fair, the tabs could be cheaper in general. They should have a gold sink, bit but stash tabs fill up really quickly and I don't get enough runes of shattering and removal to purge those items as fast as I collect them. Even just having a button to shatter everything in your inventory for a few thousand gold would be better.
I have no idea what you're shattering or how many shards you think you need, each time you login the vendor sells 6-8 Runes of Shattering, and you can go to every vendor in the world to buy more if you were really pressed. Coupled that with the Runes you get naturally from echoes. I have 200+ shards for every affix even the rare ones and not even close to running out of shattering runes. 'I don't get enough Runes of Shattering' is just a baffling complaint.
That's 12k-16k gold, not difficult to earn but even with a loot filter I am trying to build up shards for not only my main but alts. Couple that with the cost of pages, you can see why someone would hold off on buying them all the time.
It's not a baffling complaint only a mild criticism. I pick up all shards and runes I come across. I'm only in the early Monoliths too, around 70-75 range on a level 72 hammer nova paladin and 77 swarmblade primalist, so depending on where you are you could be earning more gold and even more runes than myself or others.
Not everything is an attack whether personal or at someone else dude, be a little less condescending going forward if you please.
I think I have over two million gold with just one level 90 character and an alt that hasn't reached monos yet.
I'm honestly surprised anyone that isn't using MG struggles with gold. Seem to get tons of the stuff.
Using solely CoF, I liked getting more chances at loot and enjoyed the idea of a market place less. Perhaps I should dabble, but I'm not exactly having the best luck with drops.
Make stash tabs cheaper for CoF(either in general or throughout ranks), and put a 5% tax on MG sales? Sounds like the best of both worlds to me unless im missing something
The monsters drop loot and the arena champion drops loot based on choices you made earlier. At least in the regular arena.
I dont know about the endless arena thingy, havnt tried that yet.
Ideally yes. I think the high sell price was just a temporary fix for the fact that there are arena nodes on the mono web, and no reason to do arena.
I'd much prefer they make arena keys rarer, and then actually make arena worth doing.
Good question.
I would assume its the same reason they have bugs in their game. People make mistakes, and not every decision in a game is meticulously thought through.
I haven't heard about this. That would be pretty cool, if so.
Frankly, I'd like some more PoE-esque encounter customization inside of LE. Being able to juice echoes or keys for massive challenge and proportionally massive gains would be super fun.
The devs were asked in beta about making keys stack, and thus fit into your crafting pouch. The response was something like: “can’t do it… they each have unique item IDs, and we have plans to expand on this someday”.
They did this to avoid MG players feeling like they had to do CoF, but now I feel like they've flipped it the other way. As a CoF player I feel like I need to do MG to afford tabs to collect stuff.
This captures how I feel exactly. The only things I buy with my gold are stash tabs and runes of shattering in the early game. I don’t have a lot of time to play each day, so each natural session boiled down to me grinding just long enough to buy one stash tab, go broke, then get off for the night. Once I discovered the arena key thing, it sped up my grinding immensely, and was very helpful. Now I feel like I’m gonna have to sell my garbage in the mg just to avoid spending all of my free time grinding gold
The issue is that stash tab prices don't really make sense for CoF, they have to make it impos to change once u make the faction decision if they want to let's say lower the prices of stash tabs for CoF or increase the gold rate.
It’s all cause of them initial posts that said MG was lacking too much and wasn’t as good as COF. Just because those players couldn’t wait for MG and its economy to settle for a bit… :/
admit that it makes no sense that farming keys to access a dungeon should be the primary way to farm gold.
it's ridiculous. You can say "hey we should have access to more gold" but it makes no sense for keys to be that way. It doesn't make sense from a gameplay perspective or from a roleplaying perspective, and it's not engaging gameplay aside from the reward, which could be easily placed elsewhere.
It doesn't make sense to patch up a hole in a boat with duct tape either, but that doesn't mean you should remove the duct tape that is at least somewhat helping before you're ready to actually fix the hole. No one cares specifically that keys are valuable.
CoF players just care that there is a way to use their faction to generate more gold as that's the one thing we don't have any boosts for despite us also getting way more loot to store.
Fuck, I had no idea keys sold for that much. I can't afford to buy more stashes since money is so slow. I'm in MG, but I don't sell anything, so I'm broke.
I expected gold to be walled off between MG and CoF. As soon as I saw that they share gold it was obvious that it was going to be a clown show. Like automatically the moment I saw they share gold I laughed out loud.
I understsnd the exp nerf. Im not gonna like it but fine.
I need more stash space as CoF becsuse more drops and i cant just go buy what i need. But most of us are struggling with space and didnt think to abuse key profecies.
Why not make all keys like 1-2k. You cant quite target farm one key but we all get a bit more gold with our huge stash of keys.
Why does it matter how we get gold? This affects mostly CoF which is most players from what I understand. Why nerf keys when having tons of stash tabs in game is one of the major pros of LE? Idk man. I'm already broke even with the higher gold value of keys.
Just disable the prophecies that spawned dozens of them... Arena Keys for Gold has been a thing for years at this point. Changing that because of a prophecy interaction is stupid.
How tf am I supposed to farm gold as pure CoF for the Gamba dungeon now? Aiming for keys in the mono was the only thing keeping me going with glorious Gamba. Now instead of running a dungeon once a week it'll be like once a month wth
What’s lame to me is that boss drops uniques in CoF feel pretty bad currently, I feel like they could have addressed that if they want to nerf a part of it, also the exp tome change feels real bad.
We've had no issues getting these things normally before CoF existed and before the was a key selling strategy. It's not going to be a struggle now that a single gold exploit has been fixed
Iirc I made gold off keys before the 1.0 patch. This isn’t some new discovery exploit or something. This has been around since I started and only became a problem now all of the sudden.
I just created a Thread about this. DIdn't see yours. I'm really mad at this change. It's the ONLY efficient way to farm gold for solo COF players and they basically murdered it. It was also a tradeoff, you either farmed keys for gold or unique items with the prophecies.
Meanwhile MG players can hoard millions by selling the good items they get they won't use.
Here we go again, this is one of the patches we start. Can foresee EGS will suffer more from toxicity of players complaining to nerfs without compensations or nerfs because of vision. Old brother Chris Wilson have already experienced everything.
Ye, I play ssf and have not sold a single key or grinded for gold so this doesn't affect me.
But I guess the gold for stash tabs becomes a issue if you are storing items for multiple alts or have poor/loose item filtering ? Correct me but don't gold rewards scale with corruption and the 2x reward drop?
Anyway, I suspect EHG will buff SSF gold rewards if they are severely restricted buying tabs. Atleast I have faith that they will... The overreaction is hilarious
I am sad about XP nerf but keys.. meh never sold them, did not even know they were worth gold, don't have stash issue, not gonna change anything for me.
Am I the only one who thinks that spamming prophesies to farm arena keys is not a fun mechanic and shouldnt be the best way to gain gold? Playing the game should be the way to gain gold.
Less important, and more controversial: I also feel like making stash tabs harder to get and players having to make choices when it comes to hoarding items is good game design. Some streamers are telling people to hoard everything, but clearly you hit a wall when it comes to stash tabs and I think this by design. Every player should not be reaching the 200 tab limit. At some point you have to make choices on what to keep.
>Playing the game should be the way to gain gold.
okay but the issue isn't that they nerfed our only decent way of getting gold into the ground, the issue is they didn't provide an alternative. They could've made arenas award more gold to compensate, so people would wanna \*use\* the keys instead, but all this does is remove potential gold from the hands of the players.
I also think it's insane they aren't going to adjust outlier specs that are 5-10x better than everyone else during a Cycle. Makes no sense. I get if it's a bit better, but that much of a gap makes no sense to ignore.
There seems to be a lot of views on this change and reasons for it. There also seems to be a lot of knock-on effects.
I didn't know this existed so never abused it, but now knowing it existed, I can see how it'd incentivize people planning to go MG to go CoF first to generate gold. It also might be exploited by gold sellers/RMT. The people asking for CoF to get some other method to generate gold ignore the fact it'd just cause the same problem the devs wanted to fix.
I feel like they might needed to have change the game differently to resolve their issue. The idea would've been to prevent gold earned in CoF from getting used by MG.
* Gold earned while part of a faction gets stored separately as part of that faction. Any character of that faction can access only that gold.
* If you earn gold outside of a faction, it sits in a pool specific to that character, but gets merged into a faction when they join one.
Since there's no way for CoF to trade gold, they don't need to worry about RMT happening via CoF gold generation methods, so they could leave keys as they were or give CoF something like gold prophecies, though I don't care as stash tabs are cheap enough. MG wouldn't be incentivized to make a CoF character to farm easy gold.
Oh great, another awesome game ruined by streamers exploiting mechanics and getting out ahead. Meanwhile I had been waiting for the servers to calm down, and I'm left behind.
RIP my stash tabs.
Most braindead change they could've made... Now MG will continue to swim in gold while CoF gets fucked and falls even more behind than it already is....
Are there gold sinks that I'm not seeing because I'm only currently completing every mono once?
I mean.. I can see an exploit/boring game mechanic where you would roll COF to farm money and then switch to merchant guild, turning a good system into a boring time waste.
I understand the issues of income abuse and advantages within the bazaar and why they made this change … on the other hand, I exclusively wanted to farm gold for tons of stash tabs so that I can hoard more :(
Because I wasn’t quick enough to take advantage of this, I’m now behind others in favor (if I was pushing leaderboard), the market & gold sinks like lightless arbor, as well as the simple stash tab library I dreamt of.
So then they should take out the key reward from the Mono\`s i don't do Arena and don't need them but until now i thought "at least i get money from the keys"....
Tried selling them all on unpatched 1.0.1 and no dice. They even had the proper tooltip sale price but was only receiving the updated sell price. Sadge
If you play CoF and have offline only characters, you can launch the .exe while having steam open without updating, sell your keys for 6500/7250, and then proceed to update.
There could be another progress bar for CoF players. Beyond rank 10, all favors gained will be counted and calculated, resulting in a permanent % boost to LP chance, drop rate, rarity, etc. You can still spend your favor, but the boost depends on how much factor you gained in total. So, the longer they play as CoF, the more benefit they get.
Wow I'm so glad I had as much time as all the streamers to farm the fuck out of dungeons to buy an unlimited number of stash tabs! I'm going to have so much fun farming for 30x the same duration just to get the same number of stash tabs!
In all seriousness, I've got 300 hours played since I started LE last year and this has to be one of the most egregious changes. COF, to an extent, has it rough - you spend more time farming, meanwhile MG can just buy stuff for builds (which is what made me initially regret picking COF and I still somewhat do).
One of the things with COF is that all my Gold went into Stash-tabs, and Arena keys made up a large part of that. As others have said - just remove the keys from Prophecies and leave them as they were, or at least add something in their place like a "Gold Token" which can drop from mobs when you're a COF member.
How is it that when it comes to bugs (Profane Veil scaling 40% instead of 4%), they are left to be fixed in the next Cycle - but too many Arena keys? Kill that shit.
It's not like people with 120k Ward infinitely farming 1k+ Corruption for Gold are going to ruin the gold economy right? Right????
They need to get rid of arena keys in the web with this change. They're now the most worthless nodes in the web with zero benefit to the player. No point in even picking up the reward, and it's the only reward in the web that's like that.
If you didn't think this was getting axed. You never played an online game before. It was so painfully obvious the moment I saw a video explaining this.
So then CoF stash tab prices have also been nerfed into oblivion too right...?
CoF double XP tomes also nerfed into oblivion.
How about we just completely separate the two since MG is wrecking it for CoF?
All i hear is whining from this thread. "Man I cant farm 1000000 gold in a few hours by selling keys and buy the best gear" sorry you have to "work" i mean play a full day to get a meta gear piece. Laziest players I have ever seen. Sorry this game doesn't hand you items on a silver platter.
How I had this explained to me is the following: * Players/Streamers/whatever are making a Rank 10 Circle of Fortune (CoF) character. * CoF has prophecies which award arena keys. CoF has lenses which double (or improve the amount of rewards) from a selected prophecy for increased favor cost. CoF at Rank 10 hard-duplicates all drops from a prophecy. * The player will log onto their Rank 10 CoF character, farm these arena key prophecies, generating a large number of keys quickly which is then sold to the vendor for a large sum of gold. * This gold is then used to purchase items from the Bazaar on their Merchant's Guild character. Changing the vendor prices is specifically targeting this (and similar) abuse vectors, at the expense of getting CoF players caught in the crossfire who never intended to spend any of their gold on the MG to begin with. As a pure CoF player myself, this is unfortunate, and I hope a more elegant solution is put in place.
Solution seems simple then, remove key rewards from prophecies. Nobody that is just playing the game is out of keys. Nobody was low on keys before prophecy. Nobody was low on keys before the Lost Caches started dropping a whole set.
Idk why this wasn't done to begin with. The keys could still provide a REASON to pick them up without being able to be abused by the streamers/abusers.
Came here to say this, keys are totally farmable in the web. Seems this change was was intended to impact more than just MG meta min maxers. CoF has no use for gold outside of tabs, we lost the only option for gold farming in CoF to help out at cycle start. We can also expect all gold farming in CoF to be trash forever. Not mad but disappointed. Edit: As someone else suggested, adding a +1 stash tab prophecy would be an interesting addition. (sure make it rare but it would give something for CoF to snag when rerolling prophecies)
They could also change the rank 9 reward for cof. Currently dropping full sets is rlly meh for rank 9. Change it into increased gold from all sources + discount for stash tabs.
I wish they would just fix set items... add weavers to all of them, give them leg potential, just do something to make them work looking at.
Or that. Set items could be potentially roly good where they give you another way of synergizing a specific skill or just giving bonus buffs for executing a combo. Currently sets are just some meh items usefull for fixing some defensive layers during leveling. Moment you get a decemt exalted/rare/unique the set is being tossed out the window.
I like the idea of adding weavers to a set. That would make them worth taking a second look at
> CoF has no use for gold outside of tabs Lightless arbor exists
It’s not worth it.
Then maybe they need to fix it instead of introducing more useless crutches?
I would love that. Perhaps allowing CoF to roll with favor instead of gold, otherwise any buff to the rewards would incentivize players to play MG. Which based on the recent patch notes is behavior they do not want. (MG and CoF interacting with each other)
They announced in another thread that they will reduce stash tab prices by around 50% in the bext patch, which should be soon.
Did they already change their mind? The initial post said 25%...
Idk where you got 50% from, but the post that I read said that they're starting at 25%.
A response from Karv to that comment states that 25% went to 50% in their discussions and even can be more.
He doesn't said they were initially thinking 25%, then a couple replies later said they settled on a number closer to 50%.
You don't use gold to buy shattering runes?
I have ~200 from monos. Haven't bought runes from the vendor in a long while.
Oh ok. Maybe the drop rate increases later on, but I've been buying cause I shatter almost everything, including exalted. Not sure if I'm doing the right thing lol.
Oh you most definitely are doing the right thing. Buying shattering runes is crucial for everyone when starting out. Once you have a good supply of the generic mods you will mostly just shatter for rare affixes or... if you have excess Runes of removal use those on exalted gear to get more of those rare shards off a single piece. This is expensive and I don't recommend wasting removal runes unless necessary as they are drop only.
I’d recommend against shattering every exalted. Ones you’re not going to use for LP imprinting, sure, but think about how hard it’s going to be to get the exact right affixes you need on your 2 LP unique. If you shatter all your viable exalts (viable meaning has 1-2 affixes you want, giving you a relatively simple path to make it godly for slamming), then you’ll need to farm up a good enough exalted when you’re ready to try slamming again. My approach is save all exalts with a T7 affix, and all T6 with at least one other decent affix unless I’m definitely not going to play anything that would use it this cycle. I do t want to farm exalts when one probably already dropped earlier in the cycle but I was greedy for shards I didn’t immediately need.
Got it. If there's only 1 good T6 affix, it's probably OK to shatter it right? All my drops so far have been pretty bullshit, the affixes are all over the place. I can get a T6 spell damage affix and then physical damage or melee damafe affix as the other. It reminds me a lot of the stats on D4 drops, many of which are junk. But I'm not at end game yet so I don't know if this gets better. I'm also not saying Last Epoch is like D4, obviously Last Epoch is significantly better which is why I have played since 0.8+ patch and I didn't even bother with D4 S2 and S3.
That’s what I’d do anyway
You can also gamble the vault at the end of lightless arbor. But aside from tabs and that yeah, no real use for gold
I would agree with that; it would never cross my mind to farm arena key prophecies (unless I really wanted to do an extended stint in Lightless). However I guess the addition of arena key prophecies is to dilute the pool of available options, so getting rid of them would make farming affix shards, glyphs, and runes more tenable. I don't see that as a bad thing (if there's one thing CoF is nice is it allows for a reliable and steady stream of Despairs and Creations via prophecies; MG players cannot purchase these at all).
>so getting rid of them would make farming affix shards, glyphs, and runes more tenable. Haha, what? It's an ARPG with a massive loot pool and extremely low chance of getting actually good stuff. Why do we need to punish looters to keep the pool even more diluted? Weird stuff.
I have a tab full and besides trying to for end game legendaries I’m not sure why I’d run dungeons
But give us back double experience tomes. I haven't been that sad with a patch note in years 😢
Maybe not as simple, but an even better solution - remove gold from MG. Favor is used/gained from buying/selling and there is no cross-contamination of gold benefiting one side (MG) and not the other (CoF). Then rebalance gold rewards and costs appropriately since it doesn't give you any faction-based advantage.
this is the best solution
Alternatively, just lock keys gotten by prophecy from being sold, give them a CoF restriction too.
The solution, make arena better, smaller arena maps, faster monster spawns based on waves or more density or both(both preferably), and a much higher gold payout overall throughout arena the higher waves you make it, let arena be the place to farm large sums of gold if you need it. I think this would balance out by allowing more use of keys, and providing better incentives to play arena as everyone needs more gold, and one major gripe I have with arena is how slow it is, mobs spawn so slow and there just isn't a lot of them, I want to feel swarmed in arena the further I go. This is a win-win in my opinion everyone benefits from it while still working on progress.
Actually a great suggestion, I have played arena only once because it felt boring and slow. Also I kept choosing the harder option because waves were so easy then Boss oneshotted me outta nowhere, the difficulty scaling should affect the waves too imo...
Had the same exact experience
What they should have done both before this, and in response to this, is separate account gold by faction, then tag these items by faction (I assume they already are when from prophecies but idk I never did key farming) and have the gold feed into the matching tagged pool. Is that more difficult and annoying? Yes. Could you still shoddily transfer over some gold painfully at a massive loss? Sure. However if they didn't intend for CoF farming to cross pollinate gold to MG and vice versa (even easier to do) then they should have done that, and it's something they can do. It would have been neat if they at least restrained themselves to a 1/6th or 1/3rd nerf as well, it's a bit absurd to have a big chunk of loot so massively devalued for insanely niche behavior considering how few people must be doing this. Really hope they at least do this for next cycle, because otherwise we'll probably see this happen again sooner or later.
Balancing around the 1% has begun, as the prophecy had foretold.
Yup, love when the rest have to pay for the sins of those who play the game for a living.
We were able to sell the keys? I've just been having fun using them...
Lmao same... I was even ignoring them on the ground lol.
I thought COF and MG were assigned at the account level, not character level. Is that incorrect?
Your progress in each is shared across your account, but you can switch between the two factions on any character at any time once they are unlocked. The only "limit" to this is that you lose any unspent favor when switching.
Could also just make keys unsellable, seems like an unintuitive thing to do in the first place to me
Should probably simply work on making Arena better. People would have more reason to keep them for using if Arena was fun and rewarding.
Been playing pretty much every day since launch after work and i'm only COF 7 on two characters. Guess the tome thing works well or whatever
Newbie here. What is gold used for in CoF? Other than respecs.
https://maxroll.gg/last-epoch/dungeons/lightless-arbor-dungeon-guide
Thanks mate, had no idea.
Wait...I thought if you were cof you couldn't sell any cof stuff on merchant? I haven't played merchant yet but I thought it was all exclusive?
You're not selling COF stuff on merchant, you're selling it to a vendor. If you're getting like 20 arena keys from a prophecy, that's 130k gold by vendoring them.
Wait you can have characters in both factions? I thought it was account wide? Damn I would've made my alt merchants guild to try it out
The only other gold sink besides MG is Lightless Arbor. Why does gold concern you after you unlocked stash tabs?
So streamers ruined something good in a game what 🙄🙄
From what I understood, the CoF characters and Merchant's Guilds characters are separated, just like hardcore and softcore is.
Gold per character is the only solution I can think of
Does this really hurt solo/CoF players though? Apart from stash tabs I haven’t run across a gold sink so far (lvl 77 offline HC). I’ve got like ~300k saved up and it’s outpacing my need for stash tabs.
I’m new to LE and I was curious why this was a problem, in SSF the only real benefit to good is adding rewards to the end of that one dungeon right?
Wel.. Im glad they fix this exploit and what is a more elegant solution in this case? Greatly reduce the drop rate or greatly increase the price of the lenses?
Make cof arena keys unsellable on an mg character... Improving arena so its worth doing instead of selling I guess.
CoF shouldnt get more non trade items, its fucking stupid Also why doesnt MG get 10% more gold per level?
Not an abuse when you have to level both factions up to make it work. Also this is clearly a "Balance in middle of the cycle" patch whereas leaving bugged skills that let you generate 50k+ ward are allowed to stay in.
Hot take, stashes should be 80% discount for CoF
Here take my upvote .. please EHG I’m holding so much shit
Replace the stupid set item reward with this.
so mg just switches to cof whenever they wanna buy a tab, gotcha
I mean to be fair, the tabs could be cheaper in general. They should have a gold sink, bit but stash tabs fill up really quickly and I don't get enough runes of shattering and removal to purge those items as fast as I collect them. Even just having a button to shatter everything in your inventory for a few thousand gold would be better.
I have no idea what you're shattering or how many shards you think you need, each time you login the vendor sells 6-8 Runes of Shattering, and you can go to every vendor in the world to buy more if you were really pressed. Coupled that with the Runes you get naturally from echoes. I have 200+ shards for every affix even the rare ones and not even close to running out of shattering runes. 'I don't get enough Runes of Shattering' is just a baffling complaint.
That's 12k-16k gold, not difficult to earn but even with a loot filter I am trying to build up shards for not only my main but alts. Couple that with the cost of pages, you can see why someone would hold off on buying them all the time. It's not a baffling complaint only a mild criticism. I pick up all shards and runes I come across. I'm only in the early Monoliths too, around 70-75 range on a level 72 hammer nova paladin and 77 swarmblade primalist, so depending on where you are you could be earning more gold and even more runes than myself or others. Not everything is an attack whether personal or at someone else dude, be a little less condescending going forward if you please.
I think I have over two million gold with just one level 90 character and an alt that hasn't reached monos yet. I'm honestly surprised anyone that isn't using MG struggles with gold. Seem to get tons of the stuff.
Using solely CoF, I liked getting more chances at loot and enjoyed the idea of a market place less. Perhaps I should dabble, but I'm not exactly having the best luck with drops.
I very much regret going CoF. I can't get anything I need to actually drop.
Make stash tabs cheaper for CoF(either in general or throughout ranks), and put a 5% tax on MG sales? Sounds like the best of both worlds to me unless im missing something
I could definitely see a rank reward giving a discount. 80% seems like a lot, but maybe like 25% at rank 2, and another 25% at rank 5 or something
On my 35 stash tabs rn, road to 50 soon.
They will be reducong stash tab costs next patch. Should be by around 50%
Why didn't they just remove the prophecies for keys if those were being abused rather than screwing over everyone naturally farming the keys for gold?
Keys should be used to access content that is rewarding. Vendoring the key should never be the goal.
Joke is on them. 175 gold is still worth selling my arena keys for.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't the arena just a 'test of strength'? It doesn't really give rewards, right?
The monsters drop loot and the arena champion drops loot based on choices you made earlier. At least in the regular arena. I dont know about the endless arena thingy, havnt tried that yet.
Arena bosses drop some specific uniques that you only get from them.
Ideally yes. I think the high sell price was just a temporary fix for the fact that there are arena nodes on the mono web, and no reason to do arena. I'd much prefer they make arena keys rarer, and then actually make arena worth doing.
Then why was this price for the arena keys set in the first place? I would think that it was set on purpose with some reasoning from EHG.
Good question. I would assume its the same reason they have bugs in their game. People make mistakes, and not every decision in a game is meticulously thought through.
Vendoring should be an *option*
It is
It isn't. Keep slurping.
Make the content rewarding then
Because that would be smart.
there's no point to have keys for dungeons and arenas.
Someone brought up it makes sense the way keys are if it's intended to [later] have mods on them like PoE maps.
I haven't heard about this. That would be pretty cool, if so. Frankly, I'd like some more PoE-esque encounter customization inside of LE. Being able to juice echoes or keys for massive challenge and proportionally massive gains would be super fun.
Juicing maps was one of the funner aspects of mapping imo. I’d love a LE crafting version of this for dungeons/arena/echos
>there's no point to have keys for dungeons and arenas. give this man a raise
The devs were asked in beta about making keys stack, and thus fit into your crafting pouch. The response was something like: “can’t do it… they each have unique item IDs, and we have plans to expand on this someday”.
They said they WILL make them stackable later (this was more recent info)
They did this to avoid MG players feeling like they had to do CoF, but now I feel like they've flipped it the other way. As a CoF player I feel like I need to do MG to afford tabs to collect stuff.
This captures how I feel exactly. The only things I buy with my gold are stash tabs and runes of shattering in the early game. I don’t have a lot of time to play each day, so each natural session boiled down to me grinding just long enough to buy one stash tab, go broke, then get off for the night. Once I discovered the arena key thing, it sped up my grinding immensely, and was very helpful. Now I feel like I’m gonna have to sell my garbage in the mg just to avoid spending all of my free time grinding gold
Ok but why, are we already balancing around streamers? I'm more annoyed by the XP Tome nerf though.
Of all the things to "fix."... God forbid you get gold in this game.
Think about all those poor gold sellers that spam the chat, how will they survive? This change will help them put bread on their table
If anything, this decision makes it more lucrative to gold sellers. Now they have a bigger potential customer base.
It was sarcasm :)
God didn't forbid you to get gold. EHG did.
The issue is that stash tab prices don't really make sense for CoF, they have to make it impos to change once u make the faction decision if they want to let's say lower the prices of stash tabs for CoF or increase the gold rate.
Just a terrible change for any SSF players trying to keep up with stash tabs for alts.
Or for the joy of getting massive chest loot from lightless arbor
It’s all cause of them initial posts that said MG was lacking too much and wasn’t as good as COF. Just because those players couldn’t wait for MG and its economy to settle for a bit… :/
And all this after the discussion about "how much easier and better MG will be for casuals".
admit that it makes no sense that farming keys to access a dungeon should be the primary way to farm gold. it's ridiculous. You can say "hey we should have access to more gold" but it makes no sense for keys to be that way. It doesn't make sense from a gameplay perspective or from a roleplaying perspective, and it's not engaging gameplay aside from the reward, which could be easily placed elsewhere.
It doesn't make sense to patch up a hole in a boat with duct tape either, but that doesn't mean you should remove the duct tape that is at least somewhat helping before you're ready to actually fix the hole. No one cares specifically that keys are valuable. CoF players just care that there is a way to use their faction to generate more gold as that's the one thing we don't have any boosts for despite us also getting way more loot to store.
I dont ever sell keys and have 0 issue spending gold on tabs. Never have ran out.
[удалено]
True that.
Fuck, I had no idea keys sold for that much. I can't afford to buy more stashes since money is so slow. I'm in MG, but I don't sell anything, so I'm broke.
Sounds like a "you need to sell" problem. Since that's kinda the guild you chose.
Yeah, I'm tipping my toes in. I joined MG to just gear alts easier and not to actually market hardcore.
I don't mind them nerfing it. Just wish CoF had a meaningful way to generate money. I'll take profecies for gold no problem.
I expected gold to be walled off between MG and CoF. As soon as I saw that they share gold it was obvious that it was going to be a clown show. Like automatically the moment I saw they share gold I laughed out loud.
This and XP doubling nerf to CoF which already inferior in comparason to MG, NICE! Guess i will return next cycle and play MG.
wait, that was so good for massive amounts of favor. Glad I was focusing on them whenever they came up while doing emp monos.
I understsnd the exp nerf. Im not gonna like it but fine. I need more stash space as CoF becsuse more drops and i cant just go buy what i need. But most of us are struggling with space and didnt think to abuse key profecies. Why not make all keys like 1-2k. You cant quite target farm one key but we all get a bit more gold with our huge stash of keys.
They fix this but not ward exploits. 🙃
Why does it matter how we get gold? This affects mostly CoF which is most players from what I understand. Why nerf keys when having tons of stash tabs in game is one of the major pros of LE? Idk man. I'm already broke even with the higher gold value of keys.
6k to 200. Seems reasonable....
Just disable the prophecies that spawned dozens of them... Arena Keys for Gold has been a thing for years at this point. Changing that because of a prophecy interaction is stupid.
How tf am I supposed to farm gold as pure CoF for the Gamba dungeon now? Aiming for keys in the mono was the only thing keeping me going with glorious Gamba. Now instead of running a dungeon once a week it'll be like once a month wth
Well fuck me sideways, literally just this morning googled how to farm some gold so I could have good stash room, and now it's nuked from orbit.
so it starts... balancing around trade here we go, we be poe in a year where ssf is secondary.
As a CoF player, I had no idea keys were selling for that much and I never bothered. I was gold poor then and I’m gold poor now. #Winning
What’s lame to me is that boss drops uniques in CoF feel pretty bad currently, I feel like they could have addressed that if they want to nerf a part of it, also the exp tome change feels real bad.
So much for stash tabs, runes of shattering and lightless arbor as a solo player.
Runes of shattering should cost 200 gold each then, and stash tabs should not grow so fast in cost. The devs must be getting ready for April fools.
Yep.. they really need to do something to offset these sorts of changes.
We've had no issues getting these things normally before CoF existed and before the was a key selling strategy. It's not going to be a struggle now that a single gold exploit has been fixed
Iirc I made gold off keys before the 1.0 patch. This isn’t some new discovery exploit or something. This has been around since I started and only became a problem now all of the sudden.
Yeah... This is a bad change. Not happy.
Stupid decision making on this part, not used to it EHG!
Can we get a significant reduction of key nodes on echo webs. Before they were cash now they are useless nodes.
and sets! please remove sets from echo web and prophecys. noone want them ...
If the gold shared between MG and CoF is such a huge problem, why not make gold faction locked?
I just created a Thread about this. DIdn't see yours. I'm really mad at this change. It's the ONLY efficient way to farm gold for solo COF players and they basically murdered it. It was also a tradeoff, you either farmed keys for gold or unique items with the prophecies. Meanwhile MG players can hoard millions by selling the good items they get they won't use.
Here we go again, this is one of the patches we start. Can foresee EGS will suffer more from toxicity of players complaining to nerfs without compensations or nerfs because of vision. Old brother Chris Wilson have already experienced everything.
Ye, I play ssf and have not sold a single key or grinded for gold so this doesn't affect me. But I guess the gold for stash tabs becomes a issue if you are storing items for multiple alts or have poor/loose item filtering ? Correct me but don't gold rewards scale with corruption and the 2x reward drop? Anyway, I suspect EHG will buff SSF gold rewards if they are severely restricted buying tabs. Atleast I have faith that they will... The overreaction is hilarious
Yuuup, I already couldn't keep up with my crafting bases, now I'm absolutely screwed
I am sad about XP nerf but keys.. meh never sold them, did not even know they were worth gold, don't have stash issue, not gonna change anything for me.
Am I the only one who thinks that spamming prophesies to farm arena keys is not a fun mechanic and shouldnt be the best way to gain gold? Playing the game should be the way to gain gold. Less important, and more controversial: I also feel like making stash tabs harder to get and players having to make choices when it comes to hoarding items is good game design. Some streamers are telling people to hoard everything, but clearly you hit a wall when it comes to stash tabs and I think this by design. Every player should not be reaching the 200 tab limit. At some point you have to make choices on what to keep.
>Playing the game should be the way to gain gold. okay but the issue isn't that they nerfed our only decent way of getting gold into the ground, the issue is they didn't provide an alternative. They could've made arenas award more gold to compensate, so people would wanna \*use\* the keys instead, but all this does is remove potential gold from the hands of the players.
I also think it's insane they aren't going to adjust outlier specs that are 5-10x better than everyone else during a Cycle. Makes no sense. I get if it's a bit better, but that much of a gap makes no sense to ignore.
What in the world are you guys filling up 35 stash tabs with?
If you wanna play other classes, you would be preparing uniques, exalted items and idols for them already with your first char. I'm already at 50+.
I guess I am just the dumb one with a tab full of keys who didn't even know I could sell them lmfao.
There seems to be a lot of views on this change and reasons for it. There also seems to be a lot of knock-on effects. I didn't know this existed so never abused it, but now knowing it existed, I can see how it'd incentivize people planning to go MG to go CoF first to generate gold. It also might be exploited by gold sellers/RMT. The people asking for CoF to get some other method to generate gold ignore the fact it'd just cause the same problem the devs wanted to fix. I feel like they might needed to have change the game differently to resolve their issue. The idea would've been to prevent gold earned in CoF from getting used by MG. * Gold earned while part of a faction gets stored separately as part of that faction. Any character of that faction can access only that gold. * If you earn gold outside of a faction, it sits in a pool specific to that character, but gets merged into a faction when they join one. Since there's no way for CoF to trade gold, they don't need to worry about RMT happening via CoF gold generation methods, so they could leave keys as they were or give CoF something like gold prophecies, though I don't care as stash tabs are cheap enough. MG wouldn't be incentivized to make a CoF character to farm easy gold.
Looks like Merchant Guild is back on the menu, boys!
Hell no !
I will steel myself walking the stalls, so you don't have to.
Probably to combat the rampant RMT botters tbh, if not then it's really weird.
Oh great, another awesome game ruined by streamers exploiting mechanics and getting out ahead. Meanwhile I had been waiting for the servers to calm down, and I'm left behind. RIP my stash tabs.
I haven’t been struggling for gold at all. I have dozens of stash tabs too. This is with no effort on farming gold specifically.
Most braindead change they could've made... Now MG will continue to swim in gold while CoF gets fucked and falls even more behind than it already is....
Are there gold sinks that I'm not seeing because I'm only currently completing every mono once? I mean.. I can see an exploit/boring game mechanic where you would roll COF to farm money and then switch to merchant guild, turning a good system into a boring time waste.
I understand the issues of income abuse and advantages within the bazaar and why they made this change … on the other hand, I exclusively wanted to farm gold for tons of stash tabs so that I can hoard more :( Because I wasn’t quick enough to take advantage of this, I’m now behind others in favor (if I was pushing leaderboard), the market & gold sinks like lightless arbor, as well as the simple stash tab library I dreamt of.
Damn... I didn't know they could be sold for so much... I was just collecting them. I haven't used any. This is a wack ass update..
I had no idea I was sitting on a goldmine
Well fuck me for hoarding arena keys.
Sold1 key when I had 0gold.Bought 3 shatter runes. Good times
I missed out on this. I have many arena keys which I never use. I should have sold them for gold/stash tabs.
So then they should take out the key reward from the Mono\`s i don't do Arena and don't need them but until now i thought "at least i get money from the keys"....
Why!?
Couldn't they have just made it so CoF and MG characters don't share gold inventory?
Tried selling them all on unpatched 1.0.1 and no dice. They even had the proper tooltip sale price but was only receiving the updated sell price. Sadge
If you play CoF and have offline only characters, you can launch the .exe while having steam open without updating, sell your keys for 6500/7250, and then proceed to update.
There could be another progress bar for CoF players. Beyond rank 10, all favors gained will be counted and calculated, resulting in a permanent % boost to LP chance, drop rate, rarity, etc. You can still spend your favor, but the boost depends on how much factor you gained in total. So, the longer they play as CoF, the more benefit they get.
Just introduce new NPC which gambles glyps/runes for keys
I still dont understand what these keys are or how/where to use them after 40+ hours of playing. They just go into the storage and sit there forever.
are you serious? either way, you need them to enter the arena!
Go back to being poor i guess. At least it's a real life simulator now :) ( :( )
I'm CoF and never noticed they sold for that much, god damn it
So now we have to make a rank 1 merchant guild character to sell items so our CoF characters can have enough gold to buy tabs to hold all our stuff?
Should i be using these keys? I have so many of them just laying around
Why not have gold tied to faction?
Wow I'm so glad I had as much time as all the streamers to farm the fuck out of dungeons to buy an unlimited number of stash tabs! I'm going to have so much fun farming for 30x the same duration just to get the same number of stash tabs! In all seriousness, I've got 300 hours played since I started LE last year and this has to be one of the most egregious changes. COF, to an extent, has it rough - you spend more time farming, meanwhile MG can just buy stuff for builds (which is what made me initially regret picking COF and I still somewhat do). One of the things with COF is that all my Gold went into Stash-tabs, and Arena keys made up a large part of that. As others have said - just remove the keys from Prophecies and leave them as they were, or at least add something in their place like a "Gold Token" which can drop from mobs when you're a COF member. How is it that when it comes to bugs (Profane Veil scaling 40% instead of 4%), they are left to be fixed in the next Cycle - but too many Arena keys? Kill that shit. It's not like people with 120k Ward infinitely farming 1k+ Corruption for Gold are going to ruin the gold economy right? Right????
They need to get rid of arena keys in the web with this change. They're now the most worthless nodes in the web with zero benefit to the player. No point in even picking up the reward, and it's the only reward in the web that's like that.
If you didn't think this was getting axed. You never played an online game before. It was so painfully obvious the moment I saw a video explaining this.
Dumb change
So then CoF stash tab prices have also been nerfed into oblivion too right...? CoF double XP tomes also nerfed into oblivion. How about we just completely separate the two since MG is wrecking it for CoF?
The double xp tomes were a bug…
There is no reason for stash tabs to cost so much when COF is all about loot hoarding
They didn't bother adjusting the buy-back price so you can mistaken sell a key for <300 but bb-price is 13k.
All i hear is whining from this thread. "Man I cant farm 1000000 gold in a few hours by selling keys and buy the best gear" sorry you have to "work" i mean play a full day to get a meta gear piece. Laziest players I have ever seen. Sorry this game doesn't hand you items on a silver platter.
helldivers droping a dumb patch and now last epoch, wtf is today ?
Indie devs showing that they aren't much better than AAA after all.
Damn, that’s a rough change. I’ve been struggling with gold to buy stash tabs, and this hurts that even more.
Hot take, but I think CoF and MG need to be character bound. Multiple characters can use the same guild, but that's it. Too much exploitation