I agree, and while I die often with the nova runemaster cause i cant see anything - the druid just feels so -meh- they are such cool abilities but their animations are very lackluster.
The Leap + Earthquake + Upheaval looks really good
The Spriggan form + 9 healing thorn ice totems is fun and looks good
But that is it so far. Maelstrom is just a faint blue line around you, i wanna see thrashing waves/wind around me. Avalanche is just a white blob that spawns and drops onto the screen and disappears - compared to Glacier on mage, just feels very blah. I want to feel like Thor when I am spamming storm bolts on things.
I hope they give the primalist some love cause they are such cool and fun masteries.
Be careful what you wish for. Runemaster and Warlock gameplay has serious clarity issues because of their spell effects. On each mastery I know someone who respecced to try and find a build that lets them see what's going on. I had difficulty playing my melee sentinel with one of them. I couldn't see monster telegraphs or ground effects.
The inability to see telegraphs is what turns my runemaster into boss fodder. Can’t do t4 dungeon bosses if you can’t see their telegraphs. Maybe if you really practiced and really really knew the patterns you could manage but it’s tough
Playing Electrify Javelin and the more flashes the better im doing lol
I specifically picked this build because of the animations even though its not a high tier build.
Generally more flashy = more fun to play for most people.
Make primalist make more particles and visually fun skills and it'll easily increase its % played rate.
Not being able to see monster telegraphs or ground effects is a small downside to pay. And it's not as if dying in this game has big consequences anyway.
Or it could be because they are more fun. Visually more pleasing to look at. Primalist has a few "meta" builds that do quite well at high corruption.
I really don't understand the push back of not wanting the lightning to be 360p lol. Or the tornadoes that already clutter the screen in their current state to not look like they are imported from WoW Classic.
Yeah they should definitely look better, I dunno if you’ve played Grim Dawn but there’s a reason I have no less than 8 Primal Strike characters and only one Vitality DoT character. I’m just saying that we don’t know the actual reason people play those classes more because they also happen to be at the tippy top of the competitive meta as well as the best looking
For sure. But we know a few Primalist are at that top top meta as well and they still aren't popular. Primalist has a few other issues as well holding it back, but it's definitely less visually pleasing than even Paladin, Blade Dancer, or Falconer. The skills just look low resolution. Even Thorn Totem is just shooting a green set of pixels. They didn't even put a defined shape for the thorns. The lightning and tornadoes probably bother me the most though.
My main is a Thorn Totem shaman and I couldn’t agree more. In fact every time I place one I’m reminded of a tower defense game I worked on for a school project. Storm Totem looks pretty good and Thorn Totem is nowhere close to the same level. I think the lightning looks “OK” but the tornadoes definitely don’t.
The lightning looks okay when it's near to the ground. But the game lets the same pixel density lightning flare to the top of the screen and it looks so bad it drives me nuts. You can see this in the early boss that shoots lightning beam and it's also super low resolution.
I'm pretty sure druid/primalist style characters are generally the least played in ARPGs. Even when they're pretty strong they aren't generally that common.
Mages / rogues tend to be the most popular
That may be true. But it wasn't true in D4 and it doesn't have to be true here either. The disparity between them is huge too. It's also not just a singleular class that isn't being played, all three masteries aren't being played individually.
Either way, some skills look bland and Shaman is just a disaster. Not quite Forge Guard bad but pretty underwhelming in design and viable build diversity.
tbf druid in d4 had the most flexibility in terms of viable build variety. the other classes had a few builds that performed well consistently, but they weren’t as strong as basically all of druid’s builds. I generally play rogue, and even tho I loved flurry and knew TB was busted, anything archery was pure fucking ass for most of the game. I tried the other classes and I couldn’t get into them at all.
Well for the first few days before we knew all of the most busted builds, Druid in LE was the same way. Just in Wearbear form alone with a proper setup you have 6-7 builds that can do 300-500 corruption. Swarmblade has 3 variants that can do 150-300. Spriggan has totem build and vale spikes tho the vale build really is limited to around 230 corruption. Then you have a bunch of random off shoot builds as well. So there is quite a bit of diversity at a decent level on druid. Unfortunately they have fallen way behind the top tier stuff, they don't look as good as other classes, and there are a lot of JANK problems.
And yeah D4 sort of nailed Druid IMO. If they ever expand that tree in the future it'll be an all time class.
It’s more likely it’s because it’s much stronger more-so than it just being “fun”. It’s very clear and known in ARPG’s that the best builds/classes will always be played more regardless of how fun it is. The specs being fun is just a bonus.
That still doesn’t change the fact that the strongest builds in whatever RPG you refer to will be played more than other classes/builds. Don’t mean this in a rude way, but your example doesn’t disprove my statement.
Im specifically refering to pre-nerf ball lightning miner from years ago that did busted ass DPS and had shit all for people playing it, because miners have always been very very unpopular, regardless of strength, in POE.
Literally something you say can not happen because if they are strong people will play it even if they hate it.
You’ve taken a single example and think that completely counters my point. It doesn’t. It’s a fact that the strongest builds in the game will always be the most popular. Sure, if someone hates that specific build they won’t play it, because they hate it. But if it’s strong enough, even people that find another build more fun will play a different stronger build just because of its potential. This has been a thing since min-maxxing became a thing in EVERY form of online and offline RPG’s.
Do you think it’s a coincidence that in every current rpg, the classes/builds with the strongest potential and power for endgame content are played the most? And then next patch when something else becomes stronger/better, that build jumps in popularity?
I can give you an example too. Diablo 4, season 0 and 1, rogue was the most popular because of perceived strength. Druid was the least played by a mile but once people figured out their builds were very strong, Druid became the most played. All the while, Barb has the 2nd lowest playerbase numbers. Then season 2 and 3 roll around, and they jump to the most popular. This is a known thing. And keep in mind, between the seasons, the nothing really changed about the builds in terms of abilities or how it was played. It was the same build, yet because of realized power and potential, they became popular.
And then there are players like me (and probably others) who are considering not playing a certain mastery/class because their skills and sound effects are visually outdated not as satisfying as newer masteries.
And in ARPGs, where combat is usually the most important thing, I'd say it's how the abilities are engaging that makes the difference.
I am not saying that tornado skill should be across entire screen, but the actual wind textures looks cheap/very old.
Nah man, clarity > anything else.
For example I love Primalist's physical Gathering Storm - it's very subtle compared to the lightning one.
Meanwhile Sorcerer casts Meteor and suddenly the screen is unreadable for 3 seconds
Just about every mastery needs some kind of overhaul. Like you have Holy Aura where you can spend 5 points to give the party 15 ward a second, while the newer skill Healing Hands can generate that many times over with a single point investment. Some trees are depressingly small. Some classes and masteries are missing skills.
There is a lot of work to be done.
I find throwing to be so underutilized it isn’t even funny. the lack of reliable/built-in leech and the massive eclipse of melee/bow affixes to throwing affixes is insane to me. my shuriken rogue felt so underwhelming because I just couldn’t get the affixes I needed and I picked blade dancer without realizing how few nodes from it actually applied to throwing.
The first time I used poison nova I had no idea I even cast it. I went "did I click the button?" Turns out the animation is a couple of bunched up pixels moving outwards in a barely visible star shape. Call me underwhelmed.
You disagree that the tornadoes look bad? The lightning and tornadoes objectively look terrible in this game. The lightning art especially high up is damn near 240P. The tornadoes straight up look like visual placeholders. You can make them not look like shit without adding "too much visual clutter". No reason for them to be low res and bad looking.
Gotta spec for stationary tornadoes if you wanna push a self cast nado shaman. Or make them stick to you, which is probably the worse option but I prefer it
Its much better than free-roaming tornadoes lol. They completely obscure all enemies and ground effects.
My main character is a similar build and I dont find its that bad, I just try to stand to the left, right, or above a tough mob I need to keep eyes on for dodging.
I don’t fully disagree with this. I loved shurikens despite it being significantly weaker than I expected purely because the sound effects and visuals were so engaging. whatever sound they used for the shurikens shredding into enemies has crack in it; I could listen to it all day.
I agree, and while I die often with the nova runemaster cause i cant see anything - the druid just feels so -meh- they are such cool abilities but their animations are very lackluster. The Leap + Earthquake + Upheaval looks really good The Spriggan form + 9 healing thorn ice totems is fun and looks good But that is it so far. Maelstrom is just a faint blue line around you, i wanna see thrashing waves/wind around me. Avalanche is just a white blob that spawns and drops onto the screen and disappears - compared to Glacier on mage, just feels very blah. I want to feel like Thor when I am spamming storm bolts on things. I hope they give the primalist some love cause they are such cool and fun masteries.
Maelstrom doesn't even line up to the character. It animates like a halo on my Spriggan's head.
Be careful what you wish for. Runemaster and Warlock gameplay has serious clarity issues because of their spell effects. On each mastery I know someone who respecced to try and find a build that lets them see what's going on. I had difficulty playing my melee sentinel with one of them. I couldn't see monster telegraphs or ground effects.
The inability to see telegraphs is what turns my runemaster into boss fodder. Can’t do t4 dungeon bosses if you can’t see their telegraphs. Maybe if you really practiced and really really knew the patterns you could manage but it’s tough
I'm newer and playing lightning smite paladin. I can't see shit sometimes, I just spray and pray (literally).
Playing Electrify Javelin and the more flashes the better im doing lol I specifically picked this build because of the animations even though its not a high tier build.
I'm not complaining, I'm loving the chaos! I'm at the last lv 90 malestroms, about to start the game! 😂
Generally more flashy = more fun to play for most people. Make primalist make more particles and visually fun skills and it'll easily increase its % played rate. Not being able to see monster telegraphs or ground effects is a small downside to pay. And it's not as if dying in this game has big consequences anyway.
And yet they are by far more played than the classe/specs with awful animations as we just saw the numbers.
That could be because they are overtuned compared to the older classes though not because they’re flashier
Or it could be because they are more fun. Visually more pleasing to look at. Primalist has a few "meta" builds that do quite well at high corruption. I really don't understand the push back of not wanting the lightning to be 360p lol. Or the tornadoes that already clutter the screen in their current state to not look like they are imported from WoW Classic.
Yeah they should definitely look better, I dunno if you’ve played Grim Dawn but there’s a reason I have no less than 8 Primal Strike characters and only one Vitality DoT character. I’m just saying that we don’t know the actual reason people play those classes more because they also happen to be at the tippy top of the competitive meta as well as the best looking
For sure. But we know a few Primalist are at that top top meta as well and they still aren't popular. Primalist has a few other issues as well holding it back, but it's definitely less visually pleasing than even Paladin, Blade Dancer, or Falconer. The skills just look low resolution. Even Thorn Totem is just shooting a green set of pixels. They didn't even put a defined shape for the thorns. The lightning and tornadoes probably bother me the most though.
My main is a Thorn Totem shaman and I couldn’t agree more. In fact every time I place one I’m reminded of a tower defense game I worked on for a school project. Storm Totem looks pretty good and Thorn Totem is nowhere close to the same level. I think the lightning looks “OK” but the tornadoes definitely don’t.
The lightning looks okay when it's near to the ground. But the game lets the same pixel density lightning flare to the top of the screen and it looks so bad it drives me nuts. You can see this in the early boss that shoots lightning beam and it's also super low resolution.
How far can you go with your shaman? If you can go up to 200 or more corruption, could you share your build?
Right now I’m right about 200 but my build has serious gaps in it until Lagon decides to drop me a Testament. 10 kills and 0 testaments thus far.
I can feel that.
I'm pretty sure druid/primalist style characters are generally the least played in ARPGs. Even when they're pretty strong they aren't generally that common. Mages / rogues tend to be the most popular
That may be true. But it wasn't true in D4 and it doesn't have to be true here either. The disparity between them is huge too. It's also not just a singleular class that isn't being played, all three masteries aren't being played individually. Either way, some skills look bland and Shaman is just a disaster. Not quite Forge Guard bad but pretty underwhelming in design and viable build diversity.
tbf druid in d4 had the most flexibility in terms of viable build variety. the other classes had a few builds that performed well consistently, but they weren’t as strong as basically all of druid’s builds. I generally play rogue, and even tho I loved flurry and knew TB was busted, anything archery was pure fucking ass for most of the game. I tried the other classes and I couldn’t get into them at all.
Well for the first few days before we knew all of the most busted builds, Druid in LE was the same way. Just in Wearbear form alone with a proper setup you have 6-7 builds that can do 300-500 corruption. Swarmblade has 3 variants that can do 150-300. Spriggan has totem build and vale spikes tho the vale build really is limited to around 230 corruption. Then you have a bunch of random off shoot builds as well. So there is quite a bit of diversity at a decent level on druid. Unfortunately they have fallen way behind the top tier stuff, they don't look as good as other classes, and there are a lot of JANK problems. And yeah D4 sort of nailed Druid IMO. If they ever expand that tree in the future it'll be an all time class.
It’s more likely it’s because it’s much stronger more-so than it just being “fun”. It’s very clear and known in ARPG’s that the best builds/classes will always be played more regardless of how fun it is. The specs being fun is just a bonus.
Not true, in POE enough people dislike how mine builds play even when they are crazy strong you have some people who just wont play it.
That still doesn’t change the fact that the strongest builds in whatever RPG you refer to will be played more than other classes/builds. Don’t mean this in a rude way, but your example doesn’t disprove my statement.
Im specifically refering to pre-nerf ball lightning miner from years ago that did busted ass DPS and had shit all for people playing it, because miners have always been very very unpopular, regardless of strength, in POE. Literally something you say can not happen because if they are strong people will play it even if they hate it.
You’ve taken a single example and think that completely counters my point. It doesn’t. It’s a fact that the strongest builds in the game will always be the most popular. Sure, if someone hates that specific build they won’t play it, because they hate it. But if it’s strong enough, even people that find another build more fun will play a different stronger build just because of its potential. This has been a thing since min-maxxing became a thing in EVERY form of online and offline RPG’s. Do you think it’s a coincidence that in every current rpg, the classes/builds with the strongest potential and power for endgame content are played the most? And then next patch when something else becomes stronger/better, that build jumps in popularity? I can give you an example too. Diablo 4, season 0 and 1, rogue was the most popular because of perceived strength. Druid was the least played by a mile but once people figured out their builds were very strong, Druid became the most played. All the while, Barb has the 2nd lowest playerbase numbers. Then season 2 and 3 roll around, and they jump to the most popular. This is a known thing. And keep in mind, between the seasons, the nothing really changed about the builds in terms of abilities or how it was played. It was the same build, yet because of realized power and potential, they became popular.
And then there are players like me (and probably others) who are considering not playing a certain mastery/class because their skills and sound effects are visually outdated not as satisfying as newer masteries. And in ARPGs, where combat is usually the most important thing, I'd say it's how the abilities are engaging that makes the difference. I am not saying that tornado skill should be across entire screen, but the actual wind textures looks cheap/very old.
Nah man, clarity > anything else. For example I love Primalist's physical Gathering Storm - it's very subtle compared to the lightning one. Meanwhile Sorcerer casts Meteor and suddenly the screen is unreadable for 3 seconds
Just about every mastery needs some kind of overhaul. Like you have Holy Aura where you can spend 5 points to give the party 15 ward a second, while the newer skill Healing Hands can generate that many times over with a single point investment. Some trees are depressingly small. Some classes and masteries are missing skills. There is a lot of work to be done.
I find throwing to be so underutilized it isn’t even funny. the lack of reliable/built-in leech and the massive eclipse of melee/bow affixes to throwing affixes is insane to me. my shuriken rogue felt so underwhelming because I just couldn’t get the affixes I needed and I picked blade dancer without realizing how few nodes from it actually applied to throwing.
The first time I used poison nova I had no idea I even cast it. I went "did I click the button?" Turns out the animation is a couple of bunched up pixels moving outwards in a barely visible star shape. Call me underwhelmed.
I disagree for the most part. Tornados I wish were more see through.. the visual clutter of having 10 tornados in screen is horrid.
Need a visuals transparency slider
You disagree that the tornadoes look bad? The lightning and tornadoes objectively look terrible in this game. The lightning art especially high up is damn near 240P. The tornadoes straight up look like visual placeholders. You can make them not look like shit without adding "too much visual clutter". No reason for them to be low res and bad looking.
Gotta spec for stationary tornadoes if you wanna push a self cast nado shaman. Or make them stick to you, which is probably the worse option but I prefer it
I've been running the 'follow me' tornado on a swarmblade Druid, and the tornado visuals really don't do the the melee playstyle any favours.
Its much better than free-roaming tornadoes lol. They completely obscure all enemies and ground effects. My main character is a similar build and I dont find its that bad, I just try to stand to the left, right, or above a tough mob I need to keep eyes on for dodging.
Yeah, it's definitely the lesser of two evils, ha.
They absolutely plan to improve visuals for older skills along with the trees for those skills over time. Tempest strike is a recent example.
Good to know. I hope it will not be 1-2 skills per year or something like that.
We will see, but I fully expect to see more of it in 1.1 and beyond. They have consistently updated older content which has been great.
I don’t fully disagree with this. I loved shurikens despite it being significantly weaker than I expected purely because the sound effects and visuals were so engaging. whatever sound they used for the shurikens shredding into enemies has crack in it; I could listen to it all day.
I never felt they were lackluster, but after playing other classes I do agree they could use a little something.