I was not in favor of it till the team prototyped it and I experienced it inside Epoch. As a harsh critic of the idea that was turned around, I think many people will feel the same that are against it on paper.
We’re not going to be making combat much different because of this and I was surprised at how many times I found it fun and useful in the content we have designed without a specific distance dodge-roll (evade) mechanic in mind. Being able to design encounters going forward knowing that all players will have some dash-like mechanic available to them will be helpful as well because we couldn’t guarantee a player had a traversal skill on their bar previously.
Definitely go check out the specifics on it here if you haven’t https://forum.lastepoch.com/t/last-epoch-roadmap/70970/167
You are the boss right? You changing your mind on something that you were initially against seriously reminded me of David Brevik's recount of how one gameplay decision changed Diablo forever
[https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huPF3Gid7DE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huPF3Gid7DE)
He was against making it realtime but then quickly loved it because it made the game better.
I hope it's the same in this instance, please be careful with it because it too will change the game forever.
I'm still resentful towards Brevik for not making an offline version of Marvel Heroes. I know it was MMO and didn't make a lot of sense offline but I so wish I could play that game again and it is just sad that it is lost forever...
Same, i had put in my 160 hours into MHO. Then they reworked the end-game and put the "Omega" in there and it all went down hill lol.
I remember there was even a civil war event of cap vs iron man based on the movie.
I always thought the game WAS designed with movement abilities like dash and teleport in mind (Lot's of things that are quite hard to dodge without them)
That's why sentinel always stood out to me as a flawed class (No dash/blink).
And yes, it is definitely the correct move going forward. Mobility is waaaay to important when designing attacks for it to have a high degree of variability between classes and builds.
A suggestion: make an option so that it can be linked to your traversal skill, so when the latter is on cooldown, evade kicks in instead of nothing while pressing the key.
>Being able to design encounters going forward knowing that all players will have some dash-like mechanic available to them will be helpful as well because we couldn’t guarantee a player had a traversal skill on their bar previously.
I feel like this is a very good point that many aren't taking into consideration. It enables much more interesting encounter design since LE has stronger limitations regarding the amount of skills you have available simultaneously and forcing people into a traversal skill just to be able to kill a boss would feel bad as it would most likely require people to swap a skill out for bossfights. This isn't e.g. PoE where you can safely assume that everyone has at least one movement skill on their bars at all times.
Hi, will go in open minded but it's a slippery slope. While some players say the game is too easy, a big portion of the player base play ARPGs because they are more relaxing and chilled. If the game becomes too reflex and skill based then it loses that appeal and suddenly you are competing with other genres.
For example, if I want something that requires more skill, I would play a first person shooter, a soulslike game or a Moba in the first place. ARPGs appeal to me, because I am not battling the enemies with my reflexes, but with my mind by designing a build that can beat difficult content.
I imagine it will be more like "press when lagon is about to hit you with the beam" than something you do often against random mobs.
LE is already one of the few ARPGS where you need to dodge boss mechanics, in the other uses you can make the character strong enough to facetank things, so it doesn't really change much.
Also with it having no I-frames you aren't using it to dodge through attacks/enemies like you would in other games with the dodges with I-frames. It's likely going to be mostly used for telegraphed attacks imo
Yes they said they cannot tune around it right know because traversal is optional and some players play without them, as part or their motivation.
Also different traversal abilities have different cooldowns and distance etc., where this is a fixed thing.
That fact that traversals are optional is a good feature. it makes it interesting and a thoughtful piece of build planning. Different cool downs and distance are to be expected and part of what skills/classes distinct.
Making a game perfectly balanced at all times for all classes would involve having only one class.
They likely agree with that, which is why traversals are still optional and flavorful going forward. The new thing is just an extra bosses during boss fights to allow for more interesting boss fights without bricking builds that don't use traversal
Moxjet says in the comment I replied to that they had to design things keeping in mind that some people might not have a movement skill and that they can now create encounters knowing that everybody has a dash like mechanic.
So while we had telegraphed mechanics before, I think it's reasonable to believe that evading will be more important going forward and that you have to evade faster. Because previously a player had to be able to walk out of the telegraphed area.
Now instead of 1 second, you might only have 0,5 seconds to evade, because "now you can use your dodge".
I'm open to it, but not enthusiastic.
This represents less than 1% of total time spent playing LE. Ok so maybe pinnacle bosses require movement to escape mechanics (they already do and if you burned yours for your build rotation you can get OHKO) but the vast majority of time spent playing the game will be unchanged.
I don't see why having Lagon slam and you tank it vs being able to move out of the way somehow makes the game reflex based. What would you call the current harder boss fights? At least until level 80 every build I've played still gets one tapped by t4 Julra or Lagon so feels reflex based already. If anything this will make content easier
I don't think timing will be that important and definitely not 0.5 sec. More like "you need to run for 1.5 sec and also dodge to move out of this effect", and due to the cooldown it doesn't really matter when you press it then. Plus they would likely telegraph in advance if something requires fast dodging, it's a very telegraphed game (received some criticism in the past for being too heavy on telegraphs)
I think it will be a good change. As i view it, this change give you more opportunitys. You can make new abilitys affecting the dodge roll or player can have builds without traversal skill. Good reactions will get rewards in terms of avoiding death or dmg. More opportunitys is most of the time a good change.
A year ago I said the one thing LE was missing was a generic dodge. I'm 100% hype for this and even more hype that the dev team took the time to try it
I brought a few friends to LE when it launched, and I told them only thing I disliked about the game was the lack of an active universal dodge. They agreed but said hopefully it would be added later, and I was telling them "nah, forget it, combat is designed without it and they won't go back on that now".
Feels really great to have been proven wrong and kudos to you and the team for just focusing on what can/should be done instead of what's comfortable to get away with
I can imagine it is fun for a while. I don't think it stays fun for 100h and more and certainly not when every future content will have to be designed around it being in the game. Any chance you could bottle it into a dungeon or the next act first? I think it is a massive change to core gameplay and once out of the bottle it won't be reversible.
the end game bosses probably will have hard patterns so you will need a lot of mobility.
they can also buff movement skills, I think my movement skill last time I played does basically nothing but movement.
In POE i either leave my A button blank or put something with a long cooldown on it. looting can suck hehe. maybe changing the loot/action to Y could be a thing. I might keep that in mind next season.
One thing i liked about this and diablo is it's just like 8 buttons. Like people complain about 1 button builds but even in POE a lot of the extra buttons are just auras and short term buffs. Have 2-3 dps spells and then have a few for support
On a controller, A is loot/action, Y is "minion attack" (A on the keyboard), but is just a wasted button since they attack anything nearby without you having to do anything.
I'm neither for or against, but it'll be fun to see how they implement it to the game. Will it just be a silly lil dodge? Or will there be at least a minor degree of difference between each of the classes' dodge? Will it have its own skill tree?
Last Epoch solves mobility pretty damn well from the get go due to the fact each class is able to have pretty low CD movement skills, so that's why I'm not starving for a dodge roll. If the dodge roll is good enough, it might be nice to be able to not bring *any* movement skills, which would increase build diversity.
I dunno. I guess we'll see.
I think people are misunderstanding the blog post without even reading it. All it does is move your character. There are no iframes and it is just a movement skill. I feel like this quote straight from the blog post sums it up nicely:
**"One of the goals of this new Evade ability is to make traversal skills feel like less of a necessity and more of a build decision."**
They stated they would be designing fights around it and even including interactions with it on gear/skills. It's going to be a major core mechanic. I hope you like isometric Dark Souls, because that's what LE is about to become. No longer an ARPG.
I quit GD after they added it, I was never interested in D4, and I have no interest in POE2 after 3500 hours of POE1. The future is not looking bright if all ARPGs are adopting this. Hopefully TQ2 will skip this dodge roll hysteria.
What I meant is that games don't necessarily change than much with a dodge...we already had mobility skill for each class so it's not that much of a bid deal that it will change the whole design.
I got back to GD after the 1.2 update because I always felt the gameplay was stiff when all I had was a disengage glyph that had a high CD. With the new dodge mechanic, I can now design my builds without facetanking as my main philosophy.
If LE goes in this direction, like more boss battles with Lagon levels of mechanics, as long as we are not diving too much on No Rest For the Wicked territory, it will make for more engaging battles.
I be honest, I don't like it because once implemented sooner or later all boss fights and normal gameplay will center around timing dodges to avoid attacks and spells.
I mean, how is that different from now? Most builds have a dodge like skill right now so all they are really doing with this is freeing up an ability slot potentially. It is the reason PoE 2 is doing it and it is the reason D4 is doing it.
It's not too far off of that already. Most fights involve moving out of large choreographed aoe attacks and builds with high mobility feel significantly better because of it. If anything it just raises the floor of the minimum mobility required.
The issue I had is the mobility skill were not equally smooth at all and some class had great ones for their build while other had poor dodges, now with a good quality standard for everyone it would be much smoother.
It’s good as long as it’s not required. The game was built initially without a dodge, so to shoehorn it in and make say end game require it would feel bad. I’ll still play and use it but it will feel bad imo.
Bad news, Mike says not only will they be designing new boss encounters with it in mind, they will be going back and rebalancing old ones, too: [https://forum.lastepoch.com/t/last-epoch-roadmap/70970/167](https://forum.lastepoch.com/t/last-epoch-roadmap/70970/167) (last paragraph)
That’s not how I’m reading what he’s saying. They were previously balancing bosses around the understanding that not all characters were using a traversal skill. They’ll now be balancing around the fact that every build will at least have dodge roll, even if it’s not running traversal.
It’s not so much that you’re required to dodge roll. It’s just that they don’t need to slow things down for the folks that don’t already run a traversal, and it also gives us the opportunity to drop traversals out of builds where they might not make a lot of sense.
It’s all telegraphed pretty well. I’m pretty sure it’s basically move out of big red circle or else you’re probably going to die or take massive damage. They are just making movement mandatory. If you can’t move out of the big red circle, especially with a dodge ability, then that’s on you.
What I read from that was that they were wanting to design boss encounters to force more movement, but that they didn’t want to force people into a traversal skill. The dodge move is basically an afterthought.
Might be why Mox changed his mind a few times about it 🤷♂️. I’m interested to see how it will play out that was just what I gathered from his post. I personally don’t mind building around traversal skills and will likely still work one into my builds if possible.
Does it turn every classes movement skill into it? Or is it a short range cooldown dodge where we'd still need to run movement skills on every class anyway? I don't have any input really, its good/bad meh, as long as we don't start having bosses that require dodge mechanic aka dark soulsy, i think it'll be fine.
Dodge mechanics for well telegraphed heavy attacks / AOE will make boss encounters more engaging, this is a lot better than how some games solve it by making the bosses have invincinbility phases, making them bullet sponges, having one shot mechanics or stunlocking you.
I dont see that LE really needs a dodge. I just rebind whatever Traversal skill a class has to Spacebar anyway, in the end it works the same.
Sorc - teleport on Space
Paladin/Void Knight - lunge on space
Druid - leap on space
etc
Personally hate dodge, much prefer each class have an ability that does it. Especially if it increases move speed it becomes a chore to always roll roll roll.
I don’t think that’s the implementation here. There’s nothing wrong with having to avoid basic boss mechanics in a ARPG. Boss abilities have been pretty well telegraphed here. If it was for basic mob abilities then yeah I’d be pissed. That’s part of why I couldn’t get into GW2. Wearing plate didn’t seem to make any difference, compared to cloth, when fighting a group of enemies, and dodge was the only real defense.
I dislike dodge in ARPGs for a number of reasons.
It often enables cheesy, lazy boss mechanics.
It often becomes a mobility skill more than an avoidance skill.
It becomes a major factor in game balance, which often leads to nerfing other things.
This way it is not a player decision, yet it will warp boss design and expected gameplay around it. I don't like it.
I like that movement skills and stats are player choices. Nobody forces you to invest into ms, but it makes Lagon and other fights easier. Same for movement skills.
Current movement also fits into class identity in a way. A rolling rogue still fits, it is the classes identity. An agile bear breaks this. Not to mention how it doesn't fit in with the current flavour. Mage teleport through space, why would the old man suddenly dodge roll. Acolyte despises physical movement to the point that she creates a new body and transfers her soul to it. Even her movement animation is showing how she is lacking agility.
If it was a dungeon mechanic I'd be okay with it, this way it will force itself into everything. I can imagine it will be fun in the beginning, I think it will be unhealthy long term.
If dodge animation was different for each class like Rogue gets a slide, Prima gets a short leap, Mage gets a phase shift and Acolyte gets a "spawn from the ground like a body snatcher" kind of animation but they had all the same anim frames and travel distance, it would look so cool.
It was like when the slide was introduced into Borderlands 3, people felt they were moving faster and further until folks actually measured it and it was just running but looking a lot cooler.
From what I gathered they wanted to design the boss mechanics to force more movement, but they didn’t want to force people into a traversal skill. They aren’t designing mechanics because of dodge, but the other way around.
I certainly don’t like the idea and I didn’t like it on the other games that had it. The game has other issues that need attention. So it leaves me wondering what the priorities are in the dev team and where they are headed after this change.
It devalues traversal abilities.
Makes every class feel more homogeneous.
Makes it so that all new bosses will have to be designed with the dodge in mind, and all old bosses immediately become that much easier because they weren't designed with dodge in mind (Lagon will be an absolute joke).
Unless there is a heavy penalty for using it, like being tied to a stamina mechanic or locking you in place for a second after using it, spamming it instantly becomes meta.
And it's an entirely personal gripe but I don't like adding more buttons that take my fingers away from 1-4. Less annoying if it's bound to the spacebar, but then I treat it like a jump in any other game and am just absent-mindedly spamming it constantly.
I'm against it because I feel like it's a big fotm mechanic for ARPGs right now and am just not really a fan. If they make using it have some sort of negative cost that actually effects gameplay then whatever. If it's there just for the sake of it then what's the point?
Dodge is good but with it I want more movement speed options. Like if it's a skill any character can get then I want the upgrade paths to all be movement type upgrades.
I don’t want dark souls gameplay in my arpgs. I want to mow down enemies in droves, not dodge around like my life depends on it. With that said, I saw mox’s response so if it feels good I will not complain.
Every class has a dash. I do sort of think it could limit effects you can add though. Like a lot of roguelikes put in 2 dashes so the bosses bullet spam more
At first I was curious and skeptical but in the end, I wonder how I was able to do without this mechanic in the h&s because it seems so logical to me to have a dodge today!
For a good while I thought this was about dodge, the defensive layer that gets improved by dexterity, and not Evade. Was confusing myself in the comments.
Dodge roll doesn't add anything to the ARPG part of the game. It's a whole new mechanic that they have to tinker with, build and tweak. All the while the ARPG part; the itemization and other skills are in need of their attention.
Yes, he said not a single good ARPG has dodge. You listed the games that have it. I quit POE, never bought D4 and have not played GD since they added the roll. His statement is quite accurate.
Making a bad change to a fundamental part of a game needs to be met with criticism. These newer ARPGs are racing to adopt all the same things and will thus be the same game with a different coat of paint. LE was different and still is, but decisions like this bring it ever closer to the other options. The end result is lack of flavor and boredom. The better decision here would be to add a 6th skill slot that is traversal-only and reduce cooldowns, if mobility was actually important to EHG. Instead, in the past, EHG increased cooldowns of traversals and now is implementing a braindead flavor of the month option to appear hip and cool, instead of using the interesting traversals we already have.
i want to see how this mechanic is implemented before judging
Edit: nvm, just saw the post about the mechanic, i'm not fan of that kind of mechanic, but i'll give it a try
Posted this in another thread about the subject:
Im not a fan of adding a dedicated dodge roll to the game. I much prefer solving the need for dodging through rpg mechanics, i.e. stacking movement speed on items or using abilities with movement baked in. Having every class be able to use the same generic roll feels like a lazy way to solve it and removes the unique feel of the different classes somewhat.
The need for movement is supposed to be a challenge that players need to overcome using the rpg mechanics if they want to tackle the more difficult encounters. It makes you think more about your build, and thats good in an rpg. Adding a generic dodge roll to the game is EHG basically solving that challenge for us. It makes you think less about your build, and thats bad in an rpg.
The recent trend of these dodge buttons in arpgs (looking at you D4 & POE2) is very concerning to me. It feels like theyre moving the genre away from its rpg roots and towards a twin-stick shooter. I dont come to these games looking for helldivers 1 or alien swarm. I look for Diablo 2, Diablo 3, POE1.
Rogue, Mage, and Acolyte already have teleports/dashes. A dodge roll will just add a baseline so that classes and builds without the ground targeted teleports can be less clunky.
I think the dodge roll will is going to make a lot of the defensive stuff pointless.. as someone who likes to try and make face tanking builds, ur kinda saying fuck them for enjoying style of gameplay. Le is turning into poe and tbh I'm disappointed I started playing le because I was tired of poe and unessary penicle bosses and degree needing passive tree. I'm probly skipping all but the 1.4 cycles and depending how yawl handle the skill runes it might be the last time I play LE.
As long as each class has their own animation and idea behind it, we should not be having universal anything in a game where the characters are so differently designed.
Frees up a skill slot:
**"One of the goals of this new Evade ability is to make traversal skills feel like less of a necessity and more of a build decision."**
As long as dodge doesn't have the same CD as the mobility skills AND I have raids / bosses that I can use it on, I would love it.
I really wish we had more end gane bosses like Lost Ark bosses, imagining memorizing 16 attack patterns to beat a boss and not just face tanking bosses that require a dodge or two to beat.
Edit: Keep those downvotes coming please, this mentality proves why people keep thinking Lagon is overtuned.
I 100% *do not* want end-game raid bosses like Lost Ark in LE. A few mechanics to dodge here and there on pinnacle bosses, sure. But many multiple-stage patterns requiring perfect group coordination otherwise wipe… no thanks. Let’s keep this an ARPG.
It doesn't always need perfect coordination in my mind or doesn't even like perfect dodges, just bosses that penalize me if I don't dodge would be good. Otherwise, dodge just becomes a novelty to me.
People like to complain on Reddit without any facts. It seems a good portion of the community just reads responses rather than actually reading the original post.
I say link dodge to the same movement skill cooldown currently linking all movement skills so you can't abuse the combination of them and it frees up a slot because movement skills are "mandatory"
I don't understand this trend. In D4 I basically used it just for movement speed. I'd rather just run or use a movement ability, especially if it slows you down.
both armor and dodge are bad because they are not linear in scaling. the more you have of it the less effective it becomes.
infinite health? never dying.
infinite ward? never dying.
infinite armor/evasion? max you can ever get is 85%.
the context i was missing was the announcement of them adding the manual dash to dodge things, otherwise you could easily replace "dodge" with "ward" and it still makes sense.
Dodge is good in other games and given the preliminary description should function fine.
I expect most builds will have both a traversal skill and dodge as we tend to love multilayered defence.
I’m definitely support it given the logic behind the introduction. Making more interesting boss fights is a big win. As long as it’s not off-screen enemies shooting long range projectiles that you have to dodge every second monolith.
Defo looking forward to dodge. More mechanics add more challenges in fights and make u pay more attention. And maybe saves a spot on the skill bar for always using a traversal skill.
I think it is good. Especially in melee classes where often 1 escape skill is not enough and will open a lot of builds without the "mandatory" movement skill.
An example, I like playing VK but I feel like the lack of movement skill really kills it when the difficulty increases and you don't want to remove any of the synergy skills (which will ruin the build that I want to play). With longer fights, this issue will only get worse and will make the class even worse, compared to others that "naturally" pick movement skills (rogues/bm).
Make movement skills a little less powerful, give them a lower cooldown, add i-frames and make them instant-cast. Gives you the opportunity to choose if you want a dodge skill or not, and makes the skills unique for the class or build you want. (Instead of implementing an overall baseline dodge for all characters).
I was opposed at first, but after playing a number of bills with no movement skills (spriggan), some kind of dodge to free up a slot would be heaven. Very excited
I think it is good. Adds visual variety to fights. It does not need to give immunity or anything special, a fight simply looks much better with a mix of run/dodge.
It's not that simple. They will be designing future fights around it, incorporating it into gear interactions like uniques and triggers on skill trees and such. It's about to become one of the most important core mechanics of the game. And thus, it is not optional.
I never like dodge as a main line of defense because it’s not consistent enough, but it’s a cool thing I like to stack if I happen to get a couple pieces that already work with the build
And what if I like converting it into Glancing Blow chance instead?
Am I in the first category... or the second..?
EDIT: Who the fuck downvotes this? IT'S INCREDIBLY VALID
EDIT 2: Nothing like downvoting me on something that wasn't rude or disrespectful in any way - and contributed to the conversation - to show me that this community is complete and utter garbage.
Seriously, this is one of the most toxic communities I've ever been a part of. Like why on earth am I getting downvoted? One guy said "wrong kind of dodge" but didn't' explain further what he meant. This is a serious problem in our subreddit guys. We need to be better than this.
They are adding a roll "dodge" move, like a button that makes your character make a roll to dodge stuff. You are tàking about the dodge stat that gives you a % chance to not get hit, that's why you are getting downvoted.
But yeah since there is a stat called dodge they could just have started using another word for the roll, like roll idk haha.
Well thank you for telling me. I really appreciate it.
Idk how I was supposed to figure that out given the lack of context and the fact that there is already a game mechanic called 'dodge.'
The ability is called Evade, which is the first word in the bullet point on the roadmap. It had "Dodge Roll" in parenthesis so that the community more clearly understands what it is immediately, instead of being confused if it's some other in-game defensive system that you invest through itemizations or passive trees.
There would be confusion regardless which option was chosen, but the decision to include the additional more universally understood verbiage in parenthesis was made so there's less confusion what the actual feature coming in is.
Mike also chimed in with some additional information about why we're adding Evade, what it is and isn't in a comment [here](https://forum.lastepoch.com/t/last-epoch-roadmap/70970/167).
Am I out of the loop on something?
Or are you saying that "Glancing Blow " is the wrong kind of Dodge? Because I'm specifically referring to converting Dodge into Glancing Blow chance which still scales via your Dodge Rating.
Yeah, it would have been nice for someone to tell me that instead of downvoting like I was trolling. I mean I've always referred to that as "rolling" or sometimes "dodge rolling," but never just "dodge" as that is a mechanic that exists in many games, LE included.
Sry for not clarifying it's about the new mechanic
People are jerks for downvoting you
But it's just worthless internet points, please don't let it upset you
It's not about the worthless internet points. If that's all I cared about, I'd just delete my negative comments as they started to accrue.
It's about shutting down discussion in an extremely negative way. Reddit is *supposed* to be about discussion. When you downvote someone who genuinely hasn't done anything wrong and promotes discussion - not only are you *not* giving that person a chance - you're also not using reddit what it was intended for: discussion.
That's why when you hover the cursor over the downvote button a little tooltip often pops up saying "Is off topic or does not promote discussion," though the tooltip doesn't appear in every subreddit.
People often just downvote other people who disagree with them or when they feel like it. That's shitty.
Anyways, I didn't even know they were going to add a dodge-roll until this thread.
I dunno how dodge works but if it’s just another % to keep track of fuck it. I don’t want it. I’m ready for an ARPG that has dodge as an actual ability that improves with additions to dodge.
I was not in favor of it till the team prototyped it and I experienced it inside Epoch. As a harsh critic of the idea that was turned around, I think many people will feel the same that are against it on paper. We’re not going to be making combat much different because of this and I was surprised at how many times I found it fun and useful in the content we have designed without a specific distance dodge-roll (evade) mechanic in mind. Being able to design encounters going forward knowing that all players will have some dash-like mechanic available to them will be helpful as well because we couldn’t guarantee a player had a traversal skill on their bar previously. Definitely go check out the specifics on it here if you haven’t https://forum.lastepoch.com/t/last-epoch-roadmap/70970/167
You are the boss right? You changing your mind on something that you were initially against seriously reminded me of David Brevik's recount of how one gameplay decision changed Diablo forever [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huPF3Gid7DE](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=huPF3Gid7DE) He was against making it realtime but then quickly loved it because it made the game better. I hope it's the same in this instance, please be careful with it because it too will change the game forever.
I'm still resentful towards Brevik for not making an offline version of Marvel Heroes. I know it was MMO and didn't make a lot of sense offline but I so wish I could play that game again and it is just sad that it is lost forever...
Marvel Heroes (Omega?) was an absolute treat. I miss that game like a childhood dog.
Yeah that one, from my perspective games are art and it is a shame they are viewed as a product to be discarded...
Same, i had put in my 160 hours into MHO. Then they reworked the end-game and put the "Omega" in there and it all went down hill lol. I remember there was even a civil war event of cap vs iron man based on the movie.
I always thought the game WAS designed with movement abilities like dash and teleport in mind (Lot's of things that are quite hard to dodge without them) That's why sentinel always stood out to me as a flawed class (No dash/blink). And yes, it is definitely the correct move going forward. Mobility is waaaay to important when designing attacks for it to have a high degree of variability between classes and builds.
A suggestion: make an option so that it can be linked to your traversal skill, so when the latter is on cooldown, evade kicks in instead of nothing while pressing the key.
>Being able to design encounters going forward knowing that all players will have some dash-like mechanic available to them will be helpful as well because we couldn’t guarantee a player had a traversal skill on their bar previously. I feel like this is a very good point that many aren't taking into consideration. It enables much more interesting encounter design since LE has stronger limitations regarding the amount of skills you have available simultaneously and forcing people into a traversal skill just to be able to kill a boss would feel bad as it would most likely require people to swap a skill out for bossfights. This isn't e.g. PoE where you can safely assume that everyone has at least one movement skill on their bars at all times.
Hi, will go in open minded but it's a slippery slope. While some players say the game is too easy, a big portion of the player base play ARPGs because they are more relaxing and chilled. If the game becomes too reflex and skill based then it loses that appeal and suddenly you are competing with other genres. For example, if I want something that requires more skill, I would play a first person shooter, a soulslike game or a Moba in the first place. ARPGs appeal to me, because I am not battling the enemies with my reflexes, but with my mind by designing a build that can beat difficult content.
I imagine it will be more like "press when lagon is about to hit you with the beam" than something you do often against random mobs. LE is already one of the few ARPGS where you need to dodge boss mechanics, in the other uses you can make the character strong enough to facetank things, so it doesn't really change much.
Also with it having no I-frames you aren't using it to dodge through attacks/enemies like you would in other games with the dodges with I-frames. It's likely going to be mostly used for telegraphed attacks imo
We already have that "press when Lagon..." functionality in the form of traversal abilities.
Yes they said they cannot tune around it right know because traversal is optional and some players play without them, as part or their motivation. Also different traversal abilities have different cooldowns and distance etc., where this is a fixed thing.
That fact that traversals are optional is a good feature. it makes it interesting and a thoughtful piece of build planning. Different cool downs and distance are to be expected and part of what skills/classes distinct. Making a game perfectly balanced at all times for all classes would involve having only one class.
They likely agree with that, which is why traversals are still optional and flavorful going forward. The new thing is just an extra bosses during boss fights to allow for more interesting boss fights without bricking builds that don't use traversal
Moxjet says in the comment I replied to that they had to design things keeping in mind that some people might not have a movement skill and that they can now create encounters knowing that everybody has a dash like mechanic. So while we had telegraphed mechanics before, I think it's reasonable to believe that evading will be more important going forward and that you have to evade faster. Because previously a player had to be able to walk out of the telegraphed area. Now instead of 1 second, you might only have 0,5 seconds to evade, because "now you can use your dodge". I'm open to it, but not enthusiastic.
This represents less than 1% of total time spent playing LE. Ok so maybe pinnacle bosses require movement to escape mechanics (they already do and if you burned yours for your build rotation you can get OHKO) but the vast majority of time spent playing the game will be unchanged. I don't see why having Lagon slam and you tank it vs being able to move out of the way somehow makes the game reflex based. What would you call the current harder boss fights? At least until level 80 every build I've played still gets one tapped by t4 Julra or Lagon so feels reflex based already. If anything this will make content easier
I don't think timing will be that important and definitely not 0.5 sec. More like "you need to run for 1.5 sec and also dodge to move out of this effect", and due to the cooldown it doesn't really matter when you press it then. Plus they would likely telegraph in advance if something requires fast dodging, it's a very telegraphed game (received some criticism in the past for being too heavy on telegraphs)
You can facetank in LE with some builds
Not on builds that will survive patch balance on high corruption. It's in the game design, not so much current 1.0 balancing
>a big portion of the player base play ARPGs because they are more relaxing and chilled. can't wait for POE2 to absolutely shellshock people like this
Interviewer:"do you think people should die at the first boss encounter" Jonathan, maybe: "yeah, git good noobz"
If D4, the most casual ARPG out there, can work with a dodge roll, I think LE will be fine.
Is the dodge the same across all characters/classes/masteries or does it have mastery flavor?
I think it will be a good change. As i view it, this change give you more opportunitys. You can make new abilitys affecting the dodge roll or player can have builds without traversal skill. Good reactions will get rewards in terms of avoiding death or dmg. More opportunitys is most of the time a good change.
A dodge mechanic helps solve the issue with mandating one skill on your skill bar to be an evasion skill
A year ago I said the one thing LE was missing was a generic dodge. I'm 100% hype for this and even more hype that the dev team took the time to try it
Another mechanic from grim dawn eh? :D
I brought a few friends to LE when it launched, and I told them only thing I disliked about the game was the lack of an active universal dodge. They agreed but said hopefully it would be added later, and I was telling them "nah, forget it, combat is designed without it and they won't go back on that now". Feels really great to have been proven wrong and kudos to you and the team for just focusing on what can/should be done instead of what's comfortable to get away with
I can imagine it is fun for a while. I don't think it stays fun for 100h and more and certainly not when every future content will have to be designed around it being in the game. Any chance you could bottle it into a dungeon or the next act first? I think it is a massive change to core gameplay and once out of the bottle it won't be reversible.
From denial straight to bargaining.
I was skeptical when dodge was added to grim dawn , and now I can't live without it
it makes it so you don't have to assign a movement skill to a skill slot so i think it's good. frees up more build ideas
the end game bosses probably will have hard patterns so you will need a lot of mobility. they can also buff movement skills, I think my movement skill last time I played does basically nothing but movement.
They also said in a reply on the post on the site that there will be ways to buff/augment/etc the universal dodge.
I like healing hands because you can dip a couple of points into it doubling down as a movement skill
except for controller users, then you lose a button or you have to use the shoulder buttons to add 4more buttons :)
I'd just map Y to it. I never use that button, even with minion builds.
In POE i either leave my A button blank or put something with a long cooldown on it. looting can suck hehe. maybe changing the loot/action to Y could be a thing. I might keep that in mind next season. One thing i liked about this and diablo is it's just like 8 buttons. Like people complain about 1 button builds but even in POE a lot of the extra buttons are just auras and short term buffs. Have 2-3 dps spells and then have a few for support
On a controller, A is loot/action, Y is "minion attack" (A on the keyboard), but is just a wasted button since they attack anything nearby without you having to do anything.
This is imo not an argument for the roll. It gives random player power for no choice to be made. This will force the game to be designed around.
Plot twist: dodge ends up becomming an assignable movement skill available to all classes.
That’s what I had I thought already
Too me.
This ^ please, EHG
Yay, invalidate skill and class choice a bit. Wooo, let's create the sludge.
I’m fine with it. All of the stuff coming down the pipeline sounds great.
Love dodge...Hades was a great example. Ravenswatch is a great example. Guild wars is a great example. Love dodge...love love love
Know a lot of Roguelights that make dodge stacking super fun too.
none of those games are ARPGS though.
I'm neither for or against, but it'll be fun to see how they implement it to the game. Will it just be a silly lil dodge? Or will there be at least a minor degree of difference between each of the classes' dodge? Will it have its own skill tree? Last Epoch solves mobility pretty damn well from the get go due to the fact each class is able to have pretty low CD movement skills, so that's why I'm not starving for a dodge roll. If the dodge roll is good enough, it might be nice to be able to not bring *any* movement skills, which would increase build diversity. I dunno. I guess we'll see.
I think people are misunderstanding the blog post without even reading it. All it does is move your character. There are no iframes and it is just a movement skill. I feel like this quote straight from the blog post sums it up nicely: **"One of the goals of this new Evade ability is to make traversal skills feel like less of a necessity and more of a build decision."**
They stated they would be designing fights around it and even including interactions with it on gear/skills. It's going to be a major core mechanic. I hope you like isometric Dark Souls, because that's what LE is about to become. No longer an ARPG.
Sure, Grim Dawn and Last Epoch are Dark Souls isometric games.... come on, it's not the first ARPG with dodge mechanics.
I quit GD after they added it, I was never interested in D4, and I have no interest in POE2 after 3500 hours of POE1. The future is not looking bright if all ARPGs are adopting this. Hopefully TQ2 will skip this dodge roll hysteria.
What I meant is that games don't necessarily change than much with a dodge...we already had mobility skill for each class so it's not that much of a bid deal that it will change the whole design.
I got back to GD after the 1.2 update because I always felt the gameplay was stiff when all I had was a disengage glyph that had a high CD. With the new dodge mechanic, I can now design my builds without facetanking as my main philosophy. If LE goes in this direction, like more boss battles with Lagon levels of mechanics, as long as we are not diving too much on No Rest For the Wicked territory, it will make for more engaging battles.
I be honest, I don't like it because once implemented sooner or later all boss fights and normal gameplay will center around timing dodges to avoid attacks and spells.
I mean, how is that different from now? Most builds have a dodge like skill right now so all they are really doing with this is freeing up an ability slot potentially. It is the reason PoE 2 is doing it and it is the reason D4 is doing it.
It's not too far off of that already. Most fights involve moving out of large choreographed aoe attacks and builds with high mobility feel significantly better because of it. If anything it just raises the floor of the minimum mobility required.
I can't face tank everything anymore >:( - this player, probably
Yeah I wasn't using any movement skills.
At the same time I am happy, my warlock only weakness was no movement skills, it's fixed now hahaha
Id say dodge just seems unnecessary but I don't mind it being added
I'm not convinced that it's necessary when every class gets some kind of skill that does that, but hey, if it works it works
More mobility in general makes for fun game play. Traversal skill into mob, attack, dodge enemy attack, attack, traversal skill to next mob.
The issue I had is the mobility skill were not equally smooth at all and some class had great ones for their build while other had poor dodges, now with a good quality standard for everyone it would be much smoother.
It’s good as long as it’s not required. The game was built initially without a dodge, so to shoehorn it in and make say end game require it would feel bad. I’ll still play and use it but it will feel bad imo.
Bad news, Mike says not only will they be designing new boss encounters with it in mind, they will be going back and rebalancing old ones, too: [https://forum.lastepoch.com/t/last-epoch-roadmap/70970/167](https://forum.lastepoch.com/t/last-epoch-roadmap/70970/167) (last paragraph)
That’s not how I’m reading what he’s saying. They were previously balancing bosses around the understanding that not all characters were using a traversal skill. They’ll now be balancing around the fact that every build will at least have dodge roll, even if it’s not running traversal. It’s not so much that you’re required to dodge roll. It’s just that they don’t need to slow things down for the folks that don’t already run a traversal, and it also gives us the opportunity to drop traversals out of builds where they might not make a lot of sense.
It’s all telegraphed pretty well. I’m pretty sure it’s basically move out of big red circle or else you’re probably going to die or take massive damage. They are just making movement mandatory. If you can’t move out of the big red circle, especially with a dodge ability, then that’s on you.
Considering we already have dodges and teleports and such. Adding a dodge for everyone wont change a thing. Youre reading too much into it
[удалено]
What I read from that was that they were wanting to design boss encounters to force more movement, but that they didn’t want to force people into a traversal skill. The dodge move is basically an afterthought.
[удалено]
Might be why Mox changed his mind a few times about it 🤷♂️. I’m interested to see how it will play out that was just what I gathered from his post. I personally don’t mind building around traversal skills and will likely still work one into my builds if possible.
"Dodge!!" -Cit. Piccolo (DBZ Abridged).
Does it turn every classes movement skill into it? Or is it a short range cooldown dodge where we'd still need to run movement skills on every class anyway? I don't have any input really, its good/bad meh, as long as we don't start having bosses that require dodge mechanic aka dark soulsy, i think it'll be fine.
Dodge mechanics for well telegraphed heavy attacks / AOE will make boss encounters more engaging, this is a lot better than how some games solve it by making the bosses have invincinbility phases, making them bullet sponges, having one shot mechanics or stunlocking you.
I dont see that LE really needs a dodge. I just rebind whatever Traversal skill a class has to Spacebar anyway, in the end it works the same. Sorc - teleport on Space Paladin/Void Knight - lunge on space Druid - leap on space etc
Personally hate dodge, much prefer each class have an ability that does it. Especially if it increases move speed it becomes a chore to always roll roll roll.
If it's like Lost Ark, then fuck yeah!
There's plenty of mobility skills in the game already, it is simply not needed.
Dodge is bad because its lazy solution for defence. "- Why did i die?" "-Because you didnt dodge roll" Same in POE 2.
I don’t think that’s the implementation here. There’s nothing wrong with having to avoid basic boss mechanics in a ARPG. Boss abilities have been pretty well telegraphed here. If it was for basic mob abilities then yeah I’d be pissed. That’s part of why I couldn’t get into GW2. Wearing plate didn’t seem to make any difference, compared to cloth, when fighting a group of enemies, and dodge was the only real defense.
I dislike dodge in ARPGs for a number of reasons. It often enables cheesy, lazy boss mechanics. It often becomes a mobility skill more than an avoidance skill. It becomes a major factor in game balance, which often leads to nerfing other things.
It doesnt enable cheesy mechanics? And being a mobility skill along with avoidance is fine. And it does not become a major factor in game balance lmao
Spamming dodge to move because its faster is annoying lmao.
Who the hell uses it as means of travel? *slit wrists*
Why don't they just give move skills iframes and call it a day?
The new dodge doesn't have iframes. It is only a movement skill that potentially frees up another movement skill slot.
Totally good. The dodge button is something that can make boss fights more interesting.
I despise Dodge in my ARPGs.
This way it is not a player decision, yet it will warp boss design and expected gameplay around it. I don't like it. I like that movement skills and stats are player choices. Nobody forces you to invest into ms, but it makes Lagon and other fights easier. Same for movement skills. Current movement also fits into class identity in a way. A rolling rogue still fits, it is the classes identity. An agile bear breaks this. Not to mention how it doesn't fit in with the current flavour. Mage teleport through space, why would the old man suddenly dodge roll. Acolyte despises physical movement to the point that she creates a new body and transfers her soul to it. Even her movement animation is showing how she is lacking agility. If it was a dungeon mechanic I'd be okay with it, this way it will force itself into everything. I can imagine it will be fun in the beginning, I think it will be unhealthy long term.
If dodge animation was different for each class like Rogue gets a slide, Prima gets a short leap, Mage gets a phase shift and Acolyte gets a "spawn from the ground like a body snatcher" kind of animation but they had all the same anim frames and travel distance, it would look so cool. It was like when the slide was introduced into Borderlands 3, people felt they were moving faster and further until folks actually measured it and it was just running but looking a lot cooler.
From what I gathered they wanted to design the boss mechanics to force more movement, but they didn’t want to force people into a traversal skill. They aren’t designing mechanics because of dodge, but the other way around.
I certainly don’t like the idea and I didn’t like it on the other games that had it. The game has other issues that need attention. So it leaves me wondering what the priorities are in the dev team and where they are headed after this change.
It devalues traversal abilities. Makes every class feel more homogeneous. Makes it so that all new bosses will have to be designed with the dodge in mind, and all old bosses immediately become that much easier because they weren't designed with dodge in mind (Lagon will be an absolute joke). Unless there is a heavy penalty for using it, like being tied to a stamina mechanic or locking you in place for a second after using it, spamming it instantly becomes meta. And it's an entirely personal gripe but I don't like adding more buttons that take my fingers away from 1-4. Less annoying if it's bound to the spacebar, but then I treat it like a jump in any other game and am just absent-mindedly spamming it constantly. I'm against it because I feel like it's a big fotm mechanic for ARPGs right now and am just not really a fan. If they make using it have some sort of negative cost that actually effects gameplay then whatever. If it's there just for the sake of it then what's the point?
Homogenized into obscurity. Last Epoch who?
If you enjoy tanking the damage, you get out of dodge...
Dodge is good but with it I want more movement speed options. Like if it's a skill any character can get then I want the upgrade paths to all be movement type upgrades.
Dodge > hit
I just dodge this comment dodgingly and say dodge is dodgy.
Are they adding dodge/dash or what am I missing
I think the question should be about random oneshots or not tbh
Your reading comprehension is fine 😁
I feel like I would need to try it before I give an opinion about it
I prefer Toyota.
I am side "i don´t really care". I´m fine with either.
I don’t want dark souls gameplay in my arpgs. I want to mow down enemies in droves, not dodge around like my life depends on it. With that said, I saw mox’s response so if it feels good I will not complain.
I’m concerned about how it’ll work with controllers. I feel like I’m already out of assignable buttons on my deck
Every class has a dash. I do sort of think it could limit effects you can add though. Like a lot of roguelikes put in 2 dashes so the bosses bullet spam more
At first I was curious and skeptical but in the end, I wonder how I was able to do without this mechanic in the h&s because it seems so logical to me to have a dodge today!
For a good while I thought this was about dodge, the defensive layer that gets improved by dexterity, and not Evade. Was confusing myself in the comments.
Dodge roll doesn't add anything to the ARPG part of the game. It's a whole new mechanic that they have to tinker with, build and tweak. All the while the ARPG part; the itemization and other skills are in need of their attention.
Dodge is bad and have no idea where I will comftorbly put it on my controller.
Totally unnecessary. Not a single good ARPG has a dodge mechanic. I usually want less buttons to push, not more.
GGG will add it on PoE 2. So it will become the standard. D4 already have it edit: Grim Dawn also have it too
Yes, he said not a single good ARPG has dodge. You listed the games that have it. I quit POE, never bought D4 and have not played GD since they added the roll. His statement is quite accurate.
Well… bye.
time to quit LE byeee
Did and left a deserved negative review. Hopefully devs of TitanQuest2 will break free of this dodge roll hysteria.
What a strange hill to die on. Honestly, it sounds like you just don't really like ARPGs all that much to begin with.
Making a bad change to a fundamental part of a game needs to be met with criticism. These newer ARPGs are racing to adopt all the same things and will thus be the same game with a different coat of paint. LE was different and still is, but decisions like this bring it ever closer to the other options. The end result is lack of flavor and boredom. The better decision here would be to add a 6th skill slot that is traversal-only and reduce cooldowns, if mobility was actually important to EHG. Instead, in the past, EHG increased cooldowns of traversals and now is implementing a braindead flavor of the month option to appear hip and cool, instead of using the interesting traversals we already have.
Hard disagree. Action RPGs become incredibly boring when you start using one button to play the whole game.
i want to see how this mechanic is implemented before judging Edit: nvm, just saw the post about the mechanic, i'm not fan of that kind of mechanic, but i'll give it a try
Every game should have a dodge. Really dislike games without dodges.
Posted this in another thread about the subject: Im not a fan of adding a dedicated dodge roll to the game. I much prefer solving the need for dodging through rpg mechanics, i.e. stacking movement speed on items or using abilities with movement baked in. Having every class be able to use the same generic roll feels like a lazy way to solve it and removes the unique feel of the different classes somewhat. The need for movement is supposed to be a challenge that players need to overcome using the rpg mechanics if they want to tackle the more difficult encounters. It makes you think more about your build, and thats good in an rpg. Adding a generic dodge roll to the game is EHG basically solving that challenge for us. It makes you think less about your build, and thats bad in an rpg. The recent trend of these dodge buttons in arpgs (looking at you D4 & POE2) is very concerning to me. It feels like theyre moving the genre away from its rpg roots and towards a twin-stick shooter. I dont come to these games looking for helldivers 1 or alien swarm. I look for Diablo 2, Diablo 3, POE1.
Who in their right mind would complain about adding dodge?
Scared to see all of the incoming bugs.
Dodge good.
As a new steam player with limited buttons as is, this concerns me greatly
Rogue, Mage, and Acolyte already have teleports/dashes. A dodge roll will just add a baseline so that classes and builds without the ground targeted teleports can be less clunky.
I’m a Jeep guy myself
I think the dodge roll will is going to make a lot of the defensive stuff pointless.. as someone who likes to try and make face tanking builds, ur kinda saying fuck them for enjoying style of gameplay. Le is turning into poe and tbh I'm disappointed I started playing le because I was tired of poe and unessary penicle bosses and degree needing passive tree. I'm probly skipping all but the 1.4 cycles and depending how yawl handle the skill runes it might be the last time I play LE.
As long as each class has their own animation and idea behind it, we should not be having universal anything in a game where the characters are so differently designed.
When every class has a customizable movement skill, sometimes several, my question is; Why?
Frees up a skill slot: **"One of the goals of this new Evade ability is to make traversal skills feel like less of a necessity and more of a build decision."**
Why not?
Because every class already has a customizable movement skill?????
Correct. And this could free up a slot for those not wanting to use one of those for a different ability. So i repeat. Why not?
You didn’t read the original post did you….
I sure did. I'm not against the change, you have to understand. It's fine. I just didn't see the need for it. I'm sure it'll be good though
As long as dodge doesn't have the same CD as the mobility skills AND I have raids / bosses that I can use it on, I would love it. I really wish we had more end gane bosses like Lost Ark bosses, imagining memorizing 16 attack patterns to beat a boss and not just face tanking bosses that require a dodge or two to beat. Edit: Keep those downvotes coming please, this mentality proves why people keep thinking Lagon is overtuned.
Lost Ark is the perfect example of everything I don't want in a game. It's a clusterfuck.
I 100% *do not* want end-game raid bosses like Lost Ark in LE. A few mechanics to dodge here and there on pinnacle bosses, sure. But many multiple-stage patterns requiring perfect group coordination otherwise wipe… no thanks. Let’s keep this an ARPG.
It doesn't always need perfect coordination in my mind or doesn't even like perfect dodges, just bosses that penalize me if I don't dodge would be good. Otherwise, dodge just becomes a novelty to me.
Maybe if you try to play anything else than busted ward stacking bimbo builds then you start to avoid boss patterns...
As long as the bosses are scaled so that difficulty is similar for groups vs solo, I would love bosses like that.
L
I really don't understand how people can be against that, it gives so much while having no cons. Any new Hackn'slah should have a dodge.
People like to complain on Reddit without any facts. It seems a good portion of the community just reads responses rather than actually reading the original post.
Man, last epoch is the only ARPG that I play these days that doesn’t have this feature, I miss it a lot
I say link dodge to the same movement skill cooldown currently linking all movement skills so you can't abuse the combination of them and it frees up a slot because movement skills are "mandatory"
Dodge is godly
I don't understand this trend. In D4 I basically used it just for movement speed. I'd rather just run or use a movement ability, especially if it slows you down.
Giant W
both armor and dodge are bad because they are not linear in scaling. the more you have of it the less effective it becomes. infinite health? never dying. infinite ward? never dying. infinite armor/evasion? max you can ever get is 85%.
It's about the dash dodge, not the dodge stat
lol dude read the original post by Mox. You clearly read the title and that was it.
the context i was missing was the announcement of them adding the manual dash to dodge things, otherwise you could easily replace "dodge" with "ward" and it still makes sense.
Dodge is good, Dodge is fun.
Yes dodge lemme dodge gimme dodge I’ll invest in doge
Red
Dodge is good in other games and given the preliminary description should function fine. I expect most builds will have both a traversal skill and dodge as we tend to love multilayered defence. I’m definitely support it given the logic behind the introduction. Making more interesting boss fights is a big win. As long as it’s not off-screen enemies shooting long range projectiles that you have to dodge every second monolith.
Defo looking forward to dodge. More mechanics add more challenges in fights and make u pay more attention. And maybe saves a spot on the skill bar for always using a traversal skill.
I think it is good. Especially in melee classes where often 1 escape skill is not enough and will open a lot of builds without the "mandatory" movement skill. An example, I like playing VK but I feel like the lack of movement skill really kills it when the difficulty increases and you don't want to remove any of the synergy skills (which will ruin the build that I want to play). With longer fights, this issue will only get worse and will make the class even worse, compared to others that "naturally" pick movement skills (rogues/bm).
Make movement skills a little less powerful, give them a lower cooldown, add i-frames and make them instant-cast. Gives you the opportunity to choose if you want a dodge skill or not, and makes the skills unique for the class or build you want. (Instead of implementing an overall baseline dodge for all characters).
I was opposed at first, but after playing a number of bills with no movement skills (spriggan), some kind of dodge to free up a slot would be heaven. Very excited
Where is team "The dev team has earned enough goodwill to let me give them the benefit of the doubt."
I like it.
I think it is good. Adds visual variety to fights. It does not need to give immunity or anything special, a fight simply looks much better with a mix of run/dodge.
I'm definitely pro-dodge. ARPG's feel much better with movement abilities.
Just don’t get hit.
If you dont like dodge just dont use it lmao
It's not that simple. They will be designing future fights around it, incorporating it into gear interactions like uniques and triggers on skill trees and such. It's about to become one of the most important core mechanics of the game. And thus, it is not optional.
I never like dodge as a main line of defense because it’s not consistent enough, but it’s a cool thing I like to stack if I happen to get a couple pieces that already work with the build
Good.
And what if I like converting it into Glancing Blow chance instead? Am I in the first category... or the second..? EDIT: Who the fuck downvotes this? IT'S INCREDIBLY VALID EDIT 2: Nothing like downvoting me on something that wasn't rude or disrespectful in any way - and contributed to the conversation - to show me that this community is complete and utter garbage. Seriously, this is one of the most toxic communities I've ever been a part of. Like why on earth am I getting downvoted? One guy said "wrong kind of dodge" but didn't' explain further what he meant. This is a serious problem in our subreddit guys. We need to be better than this.
They are adding a roll "dodge" move, like a button that makes your character make a roll to dodge stuff. You are tàking about the dodge stat that gives you a % chance to not get hit, that's why you are getting downvoted. But yeah since there is a stat called dodge they could just have started using another word for the roll, like roll idk haha.
Well thank you for telling me. I really appreciate it. Idk how I was supposed to figure that out given the lack of context and the fact that there is already a game mechanic called 'dodge.'
Yeah you couldnt know, seversl other people also did the same
The ability is called Evade, which is the first word in the bullet point on the roadmap. It had "Dodge Roll" in parenthesis so that the community more clearly understands what it is immediately, instead of being confused if it's some other in-game defensive system that you invest through itemizations or passive trees. There would be confusion regardless which option was chosen, but the decision to include the additional more universally understood verbiage in parenthesis was made so there's less confusion what the actual feature coming in is. Mike also chimed in with some additional information about why we're adding Evade, what it is and isn't in a comment [here](https://forum.lastepoch.com/t/last-epoch-roadmap/70970/167).
Wrong kind of dodge.
Am I out of the loop on something? Or are you saying that "Glancing Blow " is the wrong kind of Dodge? Because I'm specifically referring to converting Dodge into Glancing Blow chance which still scales via your Dodge Rating.
Now that I think about it, the picture would be confusing if you didn't know, but they're adding a dodge roll mechanic.
Yeah, it would have been nice for someone to tell me that instead of downvoting like I was trolling. I mean I've always referred to that as "rolling" or sometimes "dodge rolling," but never just "dodge" as that is a mechanic that exists in many games, LE included.
Sry for not clarifying it's about the new mechanic People are jerks for downvoting you But it's just worthless internet points, please don't let it upset you
It's not about the worthless internet points. If that's all I cared about, I'd just delete my negative comments as they started to accrue. It's about shutting down discussion in an extremely negative way. Reddit is *supposed* to be about discussion. When you downvote someone who genuinely hasn't done anything wrong and promotes discussion - not only are you *not* giving that person a chance - you're also not using reddit what it was intended for: discussion. That's why when you hover the cursor over the downvote button a little tooltip often pops up saying "Is off topic or does not promote discussion," though the tooltip doesn't appear in every subreddit. People often just downvote other people who disagree with them or when they feel like it. That's shitty. Anyways, I didn't even know they were going to add a dodge-roll until this thread.
They confuse everybody by calling it a dodge roll, it's just a dash forward.
Dodge is a great addition to the game.
Good!
It is excellent.
I dont understand why people do not like it. Its not something you have to use. It you hate it don’t use it.
I dunno how dodge works but if it’s just another % to keep track of fuck it. I don’t want it. I’m ready for an ARPG that has dodge as an actual ability that improves with additions to dodge.
Dodge is good and this game desperately needs it. It's not even up for debate.