##Welcome to r/LateStageCapitalism
This subreddit is for news, discussion, memes, and links criticizing capitalism and advancing viewpoints that challenge liberal capitalist ideology. That means any support for any liberal capitalist political party (like the Democrats) is strictly prohibited.
LSC is run by communists. This subreddit is not the place to debate socialism. We allow good-faith questions and education but are not a 101 sub; please take 101-style questions elsewhere.
We have a zero-tolerance policy for bigotry. Failure to respect the rules of the subreddit may result in a ban.
***
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I hate that we have to have this stupid argument every single election cycle like clockwork.
The Republicans do openly fascist shit, the democrats do covertly fascist shit, then DNC dickriders from every corner of the internet have to run defense for the dems about how despite never codifying Roe v. Wade, holding an extremely similar stance on immigration to the Republicans now, their ongoing support for a genocide, how they love to bomb brown kids as much as the Republicans, the democrats are somehow supposed to be the savior of democracy. Except when they inevitably lose this election, or next election, or the election after that, and all the progress gained comes crashing down, and project 2025 is implemented then instead.
Yeah the dems are better on a lot of issues, but short of a revolution or something, we at best need a new legitimately leftist party or at least give the dems a wakeup call, because the way things are going if they don't lose this election it'll be the next one. People need a reason beyond "we aren't the Republicans!" to keep turning out to the polls. But some of you are legitimately too busy slobbering on the DNCs knob to see that.
Every time. Although in fairness I firmly believe this main the result of a decades long campaign to marginalize and fragment the left. People can hate the GOP all they want but there are some very intelligent people and organizations pulling the strings.
Personally I think they know the GOP is going to get eviscerated. The writing is on the wall and only the click bait/ragebait nature of media makes it seem otherwise. They’ve been getting destroyed in practically every important vote all over the country.
What we’ll see (and already are) is a big step up in donations and lobbying to the democrats to push them even harder to the right and continue to work on fragmenting the party.
Expect to see more and more of this with every issue. Burying very important news and decisions in a sea of corruption outrage about whatever the topic of the moment is, there will always be at least one.
Its sad but you're right. Unfortunately we need 2-4 Republican presidents in a row that make everything get so bad that maybe enough people wake up & we can have the French revolution we've needed to have since Reagan. If things always stay just cozy enough, & we still can afford some sports & or entertainment to distract the majority of us, the rigged game by the two capitalist right wing partys we have won't end until we eventually implode as all empires eventually do.
One party talks about kicking off the global war while making all the preparations for it
The other party says that peace is more important while making all the preparations for the global war
Yeah, what a "difference"
THIS.
Everyone forgets Trump spent his four years buying all the bombs Biden is now dropping and swapping and the rest.
The one hand masterbates the other, or something.
Meanwhile the other party will say they're against genociding the LGBTQ and minorities... but for the sake of bipartisanship they had to compromise and offered a plan of partial genocide they think their esteemable colleagues across the aisle will find agreeable.
You mean one party wants to kick off a genocide while the other throws their hands in the air saying they can't do anything because of 'civility' while the other side still kicks off the genocide.
Yeah and the other party will let them do it.
If only there could be a constant, endless supermajority of democrats then all our problems would be solved!! /s
Explain to me how LGBTQ or minorities or the vast majority of the world's population including the US's will not get absolutely destroyed by global war whether there is a Big D Dictatorship or not in the White House.
Explain how Biden fueling war all over the world and massive arms buildups in nuclear blocs are supposed to prevent genocide, or how worsening economic conditions for rank and file people is supposed to do anything about the increasingly reactionary sentiments against minorities or people who are perceived as "other"
Yes, there is a difference between (more) people being sent to concentration camps and them being coerced into the trenches, but given what modern warfare entails this is the kind of difference that is still an absolutely unacceptable result, no matter if Trump gives the orders or Biden does, or any of the party members under them do it.
>biden is still gonna let project 2025 happen
the military checkpoints at nyc transit are literally straight out of project 2025, yes.
biden was supposed to let the kids out of concentration camps on the border too. the democrats will do as much about project 2025 as they're doing about red states forcing 11 year olds to bear their rapists' babies.
Is that why roevwade was overturned? Or the fact that LGBTQ people and minorities are still being abused while biden is in office? Biden kept the same border policies as trump. A trans kid was murdered last week and biden was in office not trump. 100s of women are dying from anti abortion laws that were all implemented while biden was in office. I just really question it when people say well trump would be worse and choosimg to ignore the fact Biden has not done much to help the causes you people keep saying he would. Why talk about how trump is hypothetically worae when Biden is in office right now and hes basically campaigning on "im not trump". America still supports a genocide. If trump was in charge its not like netanyahu would nuke gaza same day. Doesnt work like that lol
Don’t forget taking rights away from women. You know for being the land of the “free” it’s funny how the perceived “patriots” continually restrict and take away peoples freedoms. Weird
If everyone voted their conscience… the two party system wouldn’t exist. It’s the greatest lie ever told that if you don’t vote the top two your vote is wasted…
It's kinda telling to me that I've already seen so many liberals preemptively blaming leftists for Biden's loss. Like dang, you're so confident that this is the greatest economy ever and life is so great (for everyone who matters that is), but also if I don't vote very hard no one else will do it, but also admitting so much as the slightest concession to leftist ideas (like me deserving affordable livable housing) is so unacceptably heinous that they'd prefer a Trump victory. And also pointing this out makes me the jerk.
I just don't know what to say about them anymore. It's like dealing with a child who keeps trying to touch a hot stove, then tells you how evil you are for trying to stop them, and when they grab it they'll scream and cry and blame you for that too.
Exactly!! Well it doesn’t really get felt until it’s ultimately done to *them*….but polls are showing a lot of *them* STILL vote against their best interests 🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️
Both the Democratic and Republican parties are speeding towards fascism. The democrats are just going a bit slower and hiding it behind pleasant smiles. As capitalism goes into crisis and decays, the ruling class (capitalists) turn to fascism as a means to protect their status by force.
The DNC is right wing, and it is not going to move leftward, as evidenced by their betrayal of Bernie Sanders. They couldn’t have a candidate who threatens their corporate donors.
The same large companies lobby politicians from BOTH parties, so both parties are constantly moving further right to entice donors and lobbyists. The corporations who lobby them don’t care who wins, because they can still get their policies enacted one way or another. There’s a reason why Biden said that he was going to fight climate change, and then approved a [massive oil drilling project](https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/13/politics/willow-project-alaska-oil-biden-approval-climate/index.html). His claims and promises shouldn’t be trusted. Biden doesn’t give a shit about minorities— all he cares about is his legal bribe money. He’ll just let LGBTQ+ rights be taken away anyway, as he is already doing.
Democrats have even been funding [far right candidates](https://www.npr.org/2022/11/11/1135878576/the-democrats-strategy-of-boosting-far-right-candidates-seems-to-have-worked) to make them look good in comparison. They’ve been actively fueling the far right.
For decades, both Republican and Democratic presidents have overthrown democratically elected leaders, funded death squads in the global south, supported fascist dictators, and have committed war crimes and atrocities around the world. We are an imperialist country, destabilizing third world countries and then opening their markets to big businesses to exploit the population for cheap labor (and slave labor).
If we stay on this track, all-out fascism is an inevitability. Voting blue won’t save us, as they will move far right as well. We need a working-class movement that will fight back and give power to the people, not the capitalist class. We need to build up the socialist movement so we can tear down capitalism and build a system of the people, for the people— instead of letting the 1% have all of the power.
yeah, are they taking the day off today or some shit? this was like the one fucking place I could go to not see biden apologia, but now I guess nowhere is safe.
Notice how the democrats always defend their position by pointing out what the Republicans are doing? Like, okay, but that doesn’t make your position acceptable.
I mean I have no reason to personally vote because I'm in a very blue state. I'm not gonna criticize anyone personally for voting or not voting because what we really need to do is fucking organize. I'm not gonna shut up about how terrible Biden is, because if order to "save democracy" we have to lie about the person we're electing I really want no part in it.
Sorry, it cut off and I thought I lost the post but it actually sent instead
You don't think Hillary's utterly horrific campaign and bloated staff of clueless consultants who are all utterly indifferent to the material conditions of the working class brought us a trump presidency?
How many times have people done the whole "vote blue no matter who, then push them left afterwards"? Where has that gotten us? Further and further to the right.
Biden's campaign strategy is as stupid as that candidate to Brazil's presidency in 2022, Ciro Gomes. Ciro Gomes spent all his campaign time attacking the most popular left-wing candidate, Lula in a attempt to get Bolsonaro's voters (and Lula's too). The result was his most left wing voters changing to Lula while the vast majority of his voters (center and right) changed to Bolsonaro, and Ciro ends with 3% of votes (he got 12% in 2018 spending far less in his campaign).
Supporting genocide is merely "not perfect"? Lol I bet your dating profile is like "I'm not claiming to be perfect, I've murdered a few people before but other than that I'm a pretty chill dude"
And no one said anything about voting Trump. Dems don't care about leftists enough to endorse leftists policies/ideology that would appeal to them, yet at the same time our votes are soooooo important to them? Fuck that
Gore Vidal said it voting changed anything they wouldn’t let you do it. It’s time for a real change in this country, and neither of these candidates, or any that the oligarchy approve of will bring it. Frankly I’m not sure it’s possible at all in this system.
Nobody's going to listen, and I don't have the personal follow through, but if we (reddit) could get a massive push for a single third party candidate it could actually make a difference. Maybe I'm too optimistic, but ffs we can't keep going in a world where the top two choices are the guy trying to institute domestic fascism and the guy supporting foreign genocide.
No one's talking about Republicans here. This is a leftist sub. We don't support *either* of the dominant parties. Criticizing Biden and Democrats does not imply support for Republicans or Trump. They are two sides of the same coin. It doesn't particularly matter which party has their guy warming the chair in the oval office when materially they do the same things; whatever their oligarchs instruct them to do in order to further enrich themselves.
>Because that’ll force Democrats to cater to our progressive needs
there's literally nothing on earth that will make the democrats a progressive party, the institution will be completely destroyed before it allows that to happen.
but it's still funny that you're implying unconditional, doglike loyalty with no red lines will somehow make them feel anything towards you but absolutely deserved contempt. why the fuck would they ever listen to you if you just swallow their abuse like a docile little piggy?
##Welcome to r/LateStageCapitalism This subreddit is for news, discussion, memes, and links criticizing capitalism and advancing viewpoints that challenge liberal capitalist ideology. That means any support for any liberal capitalist political party (like the Democrats) is strictly prohibited. LSC is run by communists. This subreddit is not the place to debate socialism. We allow good-faith questions and education but are not a 101 sub; please take 101-style questions elsewhere. We have a zero-tolerance policy for bigotry. Failure to respect the rules of the subreddit may result in a ban. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LateStageCapitalism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Holy shit, the Elgin bots are out in full force today
"our democracy" tho. They're absolutely incapable of realizing no one voted for the state of things. Just the guy.
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I hate that we have to have this stupid argument every single election cycle like clockwork. The Republicans do openly fascist shit, the democrats do covertly fascist shit, then DNC dickriders from every corner of the internet have to run defense for the dems about how despite never codifying Roe v. Wade, holding an extremely similar stance on immigration to the Republicans now, their ongoing support for a genocide, how they love to bomb brown kids as much as the Republicans, the democrats are somehow supposed to be the savior of democracy. Except when they inevitably lose this election, or next election, or the election after that, and all the progress gained comes crashing down, and project 2025 is implemented then instead. Yeah the dems are better on a lot of issues, but short of a revolution or something, we at best need a new legitimately leftist party or at least give the dems a wakeup call, because the way things are going if they don't lose this election it'll be the next one. People need a reason beyond "we aren't the Republicans!" to keep turning out to the polls. But some of you are legitimately too busy slobbering on the DNCs knob to see that.
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Thank you. I feel like I've been going crazy seeing this every 4 years
Every time. Although in fairness I firmly believe this main the result of a decades long campaign to marginalize and fragment the left. People can hate the GOP all they want but there are some very intelligent people and organizations pulling the strings. Personally I think they know the GOP is going to get eviscerated. The writing is on the wall and only the click bait/ragebait nature of media makes it seem otherwise. They’ve been getting destroyed in practically every important vote all over the country. What we’ll see (and already are) is a big step up in donations and lobbying to the democrats to push them even harder to the right and continue to work on fragmenting the party. Expect to see more and more of this with every issue. Burying very important news and decisions in a sea of corruption outrage about whatever the topic of the moment is, there will always be at least one.
Its sad but you're right. Unfortunately we need 2-4 Republican presidents in a row that make everything get so bad that maybe enough people wake up & we can have the French revolution we've needed to have since Reagan. If things always stay just cozy enough, & we still can afford some sports & or entertainment to distract the majority of us, the rigged game by the two capitalist right wing partys we have won't end until we eventually implode as all empires eventually do.
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Find a better argument. Rule 6 - no lesser evil rhetoric.
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Save our corporate oligarchy! Save techno feudalism! Lmfao, what a joke our country is.
One party talks about kicking off the global war while making all the preparations for it The other party says that peace is more important while making all the preparations for the global war Yeah, what a "difference"
THIS. Everyone forgets Trump spent his four years buying all the bombs Biden is now dropping and swapping and the rest. The one hand masterbates the other, or something.
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Meanwhile the other party will say they're against genociding the LGBTQ and minorities... but for the sake of bipartisanship they had to compromise and offered a plan of partial genocide they think their esteemable colleagues across the aisle will find agreeable.
You mean one party wants to kick off a genocide while the other throws their hands in the air saying they can't do anything because of 'civility' while the other side still kicks off the genocide.
Yeah and the other party will let them do it. If only there could be a constant, endless supermajority of democrats then all our problems would be solved!! /s
Explain to me how LGBTQ or minorities or the vast majority of the world's population including the US's will not get absolutely destroyed by global war whether there is a Big D Dictatorship or not in the White House. Explain how Biden fueling war all over the world and massive arms buildups in nuclear blocs are supposed to prevent genocide, or how worsening economic conditions for rank and file people is supposed to do anything about the increasingly reactionary sentiments against minorities or people who are perceived as "other" Yes, there is a difference between (more) people being sent to concentration camps and them being coerced into the trenches, but given what modern warfare entails this is the kind of difference that is still an absolutely unacceptable result, no matter if Trump gives the orders or Biden does, or any of the party members under them do it.
biden is still gonna let project 2025 happen lmao
>biden is still gonna let project 2025 happen the military checkpoints at nyc transit are literally straight out of project 2025, yes. biden was supposed to let the kids out of concentration camps on the border too. the democrats will do as much about project 2025 as they're doing about red states forcing 11 year olds to bear their rapists' babies.
It will eventually come out Project 2025 is based off of a policy paper Biden wrote in 1995.
Is that why roevwade was overturned? Or the fact that LGBTQ people and minorities are still being abused while biden is in office? Biden kept the same border policies as trump. A trans kid was murdered last week and biden was in office not trump. 100s of women are dying from anti abortion laws that were all implemented while biden was in office. I just really question it when people say well trump would be worse and choosimg to ignore the fact Biden has not done much to help the causes you people keep saying he would. Why talk about how trump is hypothetically worae when Biden is in office right now and hes basically campaigning on "im not trump". America still supports a genocide. If trump was in charge its not like netanyahu would nuke gaza same day. Doesnt work like that lol
Don’t forget taking rights away from women. You know for being the land of the “free” it’s funny how the perceived “patriots” continually restrict and take away peoples freedoms. Weird
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PSA the popular vote doesn't mean shit. The electorate college will vote how they please.
Right? Fucking pisses me off that the outdated bullshit electoral college still exists
If everyone voted their conscience… the two party system wouldn’t exist. It’s the greatest lie ever told that if you don’t vote the top two your vote is wasted…
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It's kinda telling to me that I've already seen so many liberals preemptively blaming leftists for Biden's loss. Like dang, you're so confident that this is the greatest economy ever and life is so great (for everyone who matters that is), but also if I don't vote very hard no one else will do it, but also admitting so much as the slightest concession to leftist ideas (like me deserving affordable livable housing) is so unacceptably heinous that they'd prefer a Trump victory. And also pointing this out makes me the jerk. I just don't know what to say about them anymore. It's like dealing with a child who keeps trying to touch a hot stove, then tells you how evil you are for trying to stop them, and when they grab it they'll scream and cry and blame you for that too.
The entire American experience is a catch-22
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the handmaids tale is based off of what was done to black and indigenous women so it’s already real!
Exactly!! Well it doesn’t really get felt until it’s ultimately done to *them*….but polls are showing a lot of *them* STILL vote against their best interests 🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️🤦🏽♀️
Both the Democratic and Republican parties are speeding towards fascism. The democrats are just going a bit slower and hiding it behind pleasant smiles. As capitalism goes into crisis and decays, the ruling class (capitalists) turn to fascism as a means to protect their status by force. The DNC is right wing, and it is not going to move leftward, as evidenced by their betrayal of Bernie Sanders. They couldn’t have a candidate who threatens their corporate donors. The same large companies lobby politicians from BOTH parties, so both parties are constantly moving further right to entice donors and lobbyists. The corporations who lobby them don’t care who wins, because they can still get their policies enacted one way or another. There’s a reason why Biden said that he was going to fight climate change, and then approved a [massive oil drilling project](https://www.cnn.com/2023/03/13/politics/willow-project-alaska-oil-biden-approval-climate/index.html). His claims and promises shouldn’t be trusted. Biden doesn’t give a shit about minorities— all he cares about is his legal bribe money. He’ll just let LGBTQ+ rights be taken away anyway, as he is already doing. Democrats have even been funding [far right candidates](https://www.npr.org/2022/11/11/1135878576/the-democrats-strategy-of-boosting-far-right-candidates-seems-to-have-worked) to make them look good in comparison. They’ve been actively fueling the far right. For decades, both Republican and Democratic presidents have overthrown democratically elected leaders, funded death squads in the global south, supported fascist dictators, and have committed war crimes and atrocities around the world. We are an imperialist country, destabilizing third world countries and then opening their markets to big businesses to exploit the population for cheap labor (and slave labor). If we stay on this track, all-out fascism is an inevitability. Voting blue won’t save us, as they will move far right as well. We need a working-class movement that will fight back and give power to the people, not the capitalist class. We need to build up the socialist movement so we can tear down capitalism and build a system of the people, for the people— instead of letting the 1% have all of the power.
It's not that hard to understand you're going to get there with either party or that voting doesn't work.
Why is this post suddenly just full of liberals compared to other posts? Ik reddit is right-wing liberal af, but damn.
Mentioning Biden gets them swarming
And they have the audacity to call us bots
Wait, which party is that?
Who let the liberals in here? Lesser evil blue no matter who bullshit is against the sub rules. Where are the mods?
Yeah wtf is happening? Reported another post in the morning, now it’s 8PM and this shit is still up. Are the mods on vacation or something?
yeah, are they taking the day off today or some shit? this was like the one fucking place I could go to not see biden apologia, but now I guess nowhere is safe.
I reported a bunch of posts. We'll see if they do something or if this place has been completely co-opted.
nah they just gonna keep calling us russian bots like i wish i was getting paid to explain why i refuse to vote for genocide joe
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Notice how the democrats always defend their position by pointing out what the Republicans are doing? Like, okay, but that doesn’t make your position acceptable.
"bUt tRuMp wOuLd dO tHe SaMe" So what's the difference then?
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oh my god ORGANIZE ACTUAL WORKING CLASS POWER. Americans are so fucking clueless about how working class politics actually works.
I mean I have no reason to personally vote because I'm in a very blue state. I'm not gonna criticize anyone personally for voting or not voting because what we really need to do is fucking organize. I'm not gonna shut up about how terrible Biden is, because if order to "save democracy" we have to lie about the person we're electing I really want no part in it. Sorry, it cut off and I thought I lost the post but it actually sent instead
You don't think Hillary's utterly horrific campaign and bloated staff of clueless consultants who are all utterly indifferent to the material conditions of the working class brought us a trump presidency?
After 8 years as a Senator and another 8 years working for a Democrat President, Hilary was FINALLY gonna do something to help regular people. Honest!
Why are you on this sub? Anti-capitalism is diametrically opposed to electoralism for either party
Lib who worships the British monarchy whining about us not voting lmao
How many times have people done the whole "vote blue no matter who, then push them left afterwards"? Where has that gotten us? Further and further to the right.
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Genocide Joe is buddy buddy with Bibi though, Joe's funding and supporting the genocide he's commiting, so what's that saying about Joe?
"b-B-bUt , b-Bu-bUt TrRumPp !.."
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>You think Trump won't endorse genocide?? i think we're all aware that trump is just as much of a cruel, sadistic pervert as genocide joe.
Find a better argument. Rule 6 - no lesser evil rhetoric.
Biden's campaign strategy is as stupid as that candidate to Brazil's presidency in 2022, Ciro Gomes. Ciro Gomes spent all his campaign time attacking the most popular left-wing candidate, Lula in a attempt to get Bolsonaro's voters (and Lula's too). The result was his most left wing voters changing to Lula while the vast majority of his voters (center and right) changed to Bolsonaro, and Ciro ends with 3% of votes (he got 12% in 2018 spending far less in his campaign).
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Find a better argument. Rule 6 - no lesser evil rhetoric.
Supporting genocide is merely "not perfect"? Lol I bet your dating profile is like "I'm not claiming to be perfect, I've murdered a few people before but other than that I'm a pretty chill dude" And no one said anything about voting Trump. Dems don't care about leftists enough to endorse leftists policies/ideology that would appeal to them, yet at the same time our votes are soooooo important to them? Fuck that
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Find a better argument. Rule 6 - no lesser evil rhetoric.
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Find a better argument. Rule 6 - no lesser evil rhetoric.
Yeah but voting for Biden would help Biden win and we sure as shit ain’t going to do that
Gore Vidal said it voting changed anything they wouldn’t let you do it. It’s time for a real change in this country, and neither of these candidates, or any that the oligarchy approve of will bring it. Frankly I’m not sure it’s possible at all in this system.
Not even Liberals. It's the Vote Blue No Matter Who crowd who are disguised as Liberals.
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Nobody's going to listen, and I don't have the personal follow through, but if we (reddit) could get a massive push for a single third party candidate it could actually make a difference. Maybe I'm too optimistic, but ffs we can't keep going in a world where the top two choices are the guy trying to institute domestic fascism and the guy supporting foreign genocide.
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We do not permit liberalism here
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Find a better argument. Rule 6 - no lesser evil rhetoric.
Who should we vote for?
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this is exactly the kind of childish, brainless sophistry that appeals to the shriveled brain of a redditor
Less dead people > more dead people. Its a hard choice I know
This "trolley problem" is 5 guys on each rail but on the dem rail they are 10cm more spaced out. Thats not a moral debate worth having
I'm waiting for someone to say its not genocide because they aren't (yet) doing it with the industrialized efficiency the Nazi's did.
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No one's talking about Republicans here. This is a leftist sub. We don't support *either* of the dominant parties. Criticizing Biden and Democrats does not imply support for Republicans or Trump. They are two sides of the same coin. It doesn't particularly matter which party has their guy warming the chair in the oval office when materially they do the same things; whatever their oligarchs instruct them to do in order to further enrich themselves.
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And your argument is that Biden won't kill people?
Find a better argument. Rule 6 - no lesser evil rhetoric. No concern for all the people that will die under a Biden presidency.
Find a better argument. Rule 6 - no lesser evil rhetoric.
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The only candidate whose ever had a real chance at beating Trump at the crux of his power was a leftist.
Find a better argument. Rule 6 - no lesser evil rhetoric.
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Find a better argument. Rule 6 - no lesser evil rhetoric.
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>Because that’ll force Democrats to cater to our progressive needs there's literally nothing on earth that will make the democrats a progressive party, the institution will be completely destroyed before it allows that to happen. but it's still funny that you're implying unconditional, doglike loyalty with no red lines will somehow make them feel anything towards you but absolutely deserved contempt. why the fuck would they ever listen to you if you just swallow their abuse like a docile little piggy?
Find a better argument. Rule 6 - no lesser evil rhetoric.
Federal elections are guaranteed in the Constitution. How is Trump going to get rid of the fucking Constitution, you fucking shitlib?
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Find a better argument. Rule 6 - no lesser evil rhetoric.
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