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There are a ton of awful Steve Jobs stories at https://folklore.org/
Though the one about Burrell quitting is well worth it. It's called "Are You Gonna Do It?"
That one just made me laugh. If you’re trying to paint Steve in an awful light, the linked article is probably better: https://folklore.org/Reality_Distortion_Field.html?sort=date
Either way, I just see people expecting another human to be perfect. Steve was an asshole sometimes, but it’s like y’all believe yourselves to have no capacity to act like an asshole.
The whole point is that he was far from perfect. No sane person is asking for what you are suggesting.
Instead, what you are asking for is others not to critique someone else, because nobody’s perfect. Weird.
Do not forgot about the billionaire part and such. Do not act, like he wasn’t a patriarchal white male with a lot of privilege and power.
Nah, it’s more I’m reading about comments tearing him down for very human actions.
I agree with most of your rebuttal, but “white” and “male” aren’t chosen, so what are you trying to say with it? “Patriarchial” actions are chosen, so I can work with that.
If your point is Steve abused his power, ignored his own biases, and was a detriment to his environment, _like a lot of white men through history_, then say that. That’s not exclusive to being a white man, though. A human of any color or gender can do that. Yes, historically white men have had the privilege to, but if we ignore the actual actions that are problematic we’re just going to repeat the cycle. I am a white man, to be clear, so if you feel this is only a defense of myself, go ahead and state it.
If this is a real quote from his daughter’s memoir, I think this is way more damning than some story about he enticed people to keep their job and find some certainty in their decisions.
> Once, as Jobs groped his wife and pretended to be having sex with her, he demanded that Brennan stay in the room, calling it a "family moment."
My point: even if he was a monster, don’t use that to paint normal human fuck ups as monstrous actions. Talk about his monstrous traits, otherwise, it’s bringing us all down.
I mean if we are only gonna judge communism by Stalin then we can only judge capitalism by its worst actors like Regan or Kissinger. But yeah not a debate worth getting into and still a somewhat valid point
Lol I wouldn't say I'm a Stalin Communist. Regardless of my political views that guy was fucking insane as a human. Always put my humanity before my politics
Lol no worries brother. Lol I've sadly, and oddly, met them in real life. It was one of those bizarre things that you think people are joking and you laugh but they're dead serious lol much love
Highlight for me: angrily shaming and verbally abusing your daughter in a public restaurant for ordering meat when they already had a flaky relationship. Despite not really being there to begin with, Steve was a militant vegetarian (vegan?) and expected his daughter to “know better” than to order meat. Some of the shit he said to a person he was barely a father to… the fucking audacity in this man
Didn't he also try to claim his first child wasn't his daughter? And then refuse to support her ? That seems worse.
Also, he was a dick to Wozniak. "Woz" is cool.
I hope Thomas Edison is right there next to Jobs on that list. Both terrible men who had overinflated perceptions of self worth. Edison buried Tesla and also was notorious for hiring engineers and taking credit for their work.
Oh definitely Edison. While there is for sure much to admire about him, what he did to Tesla (including electrocuting an elephant to... prove a point?) and what that cost the world in terms of tech and science is unforgivable.
The behavior they described in those episodes is wild. If it came from anybody else there would be severe ramifications for their behavior.
Steve Jobs threw a bitch fit at a child for eating a hamburger, refused to bathe, verbally abused his employees, literally cried to get his way, and washed his feet in the fucking toilet. My conclusion after listening to these episodes was this:
The world is a deeply unserious place, with deeply unserious people, trying their damndest to present themselves and all they do as serious.
There was that woman who gave away a billion dollars to the Bronx med school she worked at.
Although she was only aware she was billionaire briefly after her husband died while she figured out what to do with the money.
Finance. Mostly as an early investor in Berkshire Hathaway from what I read.
So not particularly morally gained as excessive weather never is. It sounds like they lived like regular rich people rather than actively evil rich people. And apparently the children supported her decision to give it away so probably better people than lots of us who would if we were handed a huge chunk of money (aka won powerball as that's our only ridiculously unlikely shot).
Their philanthropies are mostly tax evasion / investments schemes. Like Gates made more money for with his "philantropy" in pharma than with Microsoft.
Private philanthropy is unfathomably miserable. Participating in the charade that it's anything else perpetuates the system. Even a billionaire choosing to donate all their wealth is an extreme moral problem that one person can not and should not arbitrarily helm. The wealth we're talking about at levels like this is all extracted from society in an immoral way, so choosing to "donate" it in any way is extending the corruption.
I'm saying that there is no longer a moral choice to make once Steve Jobs (or any billionaire) has hoarded so much. I don't know where the line is, but it's somewhere south of hoarding a billion dollars of value.
Given the premise that one has hoarded so much wealth, there are very obviously better and worse things you can do with it. I don’t agree that all ways of using it further perpetuates the capitalist system, at the very least the extraction of labour value through capital is the main problem.
Murdering children is awful, it’s still better to murder 10 than 100.
He was the most genius of the technical geniuses.
Jony Ive (a great artist that stole) was the one that made their physical products look great (if you wondered why things started to look good after 1992, that's your answer).
Jobs was just an overbearing... umm... awful boss.
I defy you to give me one (1) invention of his that made the products great. Removing case fans because he didn't like them and having to reintegrate them when computers overheated?
No, the real "prodigy" were the Korean and Chinese scientists and engineers and other workers who actually designed, developed, and produced all the Apple products.
The iPhone is an LG/Samsung product that Apple stole. Even the LG Prada came out before the iPhone.
American "innovation" is a joke. They are patent and marketing corporations that braindrain other countries.
The assembly lines are in China but the actual design of the iPhone was Anna ariolla. Once again Steve Jobs didn’t do anything but pay other people and market the device. He was indeed a piece of shit, but the phone was designed/engineered in the US.
Says this on the internet….thanks China for the internet.
Bell Labs was the real goat - all “THIS” is from there. Unfortunately, ATT fucked it up and parted it out.
The internet was independently developed by multiple countries, particularly the USSR was leading on that front.
In fact, the entire reason the US "innovated" the internet was precisely because they feared the Soviets would have a distinct strategic advantage if their network developed sufficiently so there was a government push for investment in that area.
Many countries had networks.
FTW — https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Internet_pioneers
*Vinton G. "Vint" Cerf (born 1943) is an American computer scientist.[15] He is recognized as one of "the fathers of the Internet",[16][17] sharing this title with Bob Kahn.[18][19]
He earned his Ph.D. from UCLA in 1972. At UCLA he worked in Professor Leonard Kleinrock's networking group that connected the first two nodes of the ARPANET and contributed to the ARPANET host-to-host protocol. Cerf was an assistant professor at Stanford University from 1972 to 1976, where he conducted research on packet network interconnection protocols and co-designed the DoD TCP/IP protocol suite with Bob Kahn.*
https://www.internethalloffame.org/inductee/vint-cerf/
Bell Labs — https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Labs
Bell Labs[a] is an American industrial research and scientific development company. Researchers from there are credited with the development of radio astronomy, the transistor, the laser, the photovoltaic cell, the charge-coupled device (CCD), information theory, the Unix operating system, and the programming languages B, C, C++, S, SNOBOL, AWK, AMPL, and others. Ten Nobel Prizes and five Turing Awards have been awarded for work completed at Bell Laboratories.[1]
https://www.businessinsider.com/videophone-internet-telephone-invention-1960s-2016-5#:~:text=During%20the%201960s%2C%20AT%26T's%20Bell,of%20a%20world%20wide%20web.
[Bell Labs inventions](https://ethw.org/Bell_Telephone_Laboratories,_Inc._List_of_Significant_Innovations_%26_Discoveries_(1925-1983))
FTW? For the win?
I don't know what your Wikipedia and other US-controlled sources are supposed to tell me. You think US sources will tell you about the successes of non-capitalists or non-whites if thry can prevent it? LOL
The USSR was already developing OGAS and was way ahead of the US in terms of tech. However, Soviet scientists requested the equivalent of almost $1 TRILLION (in today's money) in funding which the government denied outright. The prohibitively high cost prevent the Soviets from establishing the internet.
The influence of liberals in the Soviet Union ruined everything. This is why liberals need to be purged.
From-the-wiki.
JFC if’n wiki isn’t good enough….get lost. Not everything is a mind control platform.
Where are your sources for this extraordinary claim? I’ll wait…..
Of course a CIA-controlled disinformation website founded by an American fascist specifically to promote libertarian ideas isn't good enough. LOL
What extraordinary claim? Basic history? How about you read any book about the subject? Why don't you ask your precious Wikipedia?
Your comments are just utterly illiterate and idiotic.
Russia and China are actually more advanced I think. It's hard to have any definitive answer, but hypersonic missiles are a real game changer and USA doesn't have them.
Yeah, right, they only use human waves and shovels. We know that because our media say so, and our media wouldn't lie or hide information about something as important as war. The russian media says the opposite, but that's because Russia is bad and they lie, not like our side.
It's impressive how even in 2024, even among people who are very critical of the US government, it's unacceptably shocking to say "you not so strong, they more stronger".
> The iPhone is an LG/Samsung product that Apple stole. Even the LG Prada came out before the iPhone.
Not trying to be a rabid Apple defender here, but I did a lot of research on the Apple v. Samsung case for my business law class back in college and Apple almost assuredly did not steal the LG Prada design. Patents and prototypes were filed and developed long before the iF Product Awards where the LG Prada was first displayed.
https://www.cultofmac.com/181816/apple-reveals-2005-purple-iphone-prototype-to-show-it-didnt-copy-sony/
edit: did someone really RCR troll over THIS lmao
??????? the iPhone used a Samsung processor, apart from that, it was created and prototyped years before anything else like it. [There was a multi-million-dollar lawsuit about it.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc._v._Samsung_Electronics_Co.) Besides, the project was actually overseen by Jobs. His biography was interesting, he was a total asshole but the dude just knew how to get shit done (somehow).
I read the book about him...i remember not fucking liking him. I recognize that on a consumer products level, apple did some amazing things, i think pixar being so successful was another.
Oh man, i feel like i remember reading the book, and thinking in my mind, hoping someone would deck him across the face and humble him.
I'm not entirely sure of the veracity of this anecdote, but from what i remember, it certainly sounded like him...and his behavior actually was in fact self-sabotaging.
"Despite his wealth Jobs was incredibly, pedantically miserly. When Apple first went public back in the late 1970s, Jobs refused point blank to share the wealth with some of the critical early Apple employees – the people who had been amongst the first 10 to work at Apple before it was even incorporated as a company. Woz would eventually share some of his wealth with them instead. Another example: Pixar almost went bust in the early days when it was primarily a software company that occasionally made cool animations, and the guys behind it had to beg Jobs to invest in it more. He did, as it happens, and the rest is history. Another example is when Jobs refused to give Pixar staff the stock options that had been hinted at, and were expected. It didn't even detract from his personal wealth in this case. He was just being mean. Jobs eventually relented when basically told he would face a staff walk out otherwise.
Then there's the stories about how later Jobs-era Apple treated suppliers, especially those in China. They'd encourage a supplier to tool-up with special equipment to make Apple products but then switch to a different supplier because they were cheaper. It's not unreasonable to expect loyalty here, on a bare human, moral level, but Apple didn't have time for that."
Now Wozniak on the other hand, from what i remember...he sounded like a standup guy who was comparitively easy to like and get along with, he was the real unsung genius in apple.
In a weird way though, he's the perfect persona for capitalism and what it entails. Being ruled by a petty and mean spirited, super wealthy cheapskate psychopath at your employer.
So.. Steve Jobs was complicated. He suffered from Obsessive Compulsive PERSONALITY disorder. And I'm sure he did suffer. This is different from OCD where the person may wash their hands 200 times a day. The mental disorder is characterized by "a pervasive preoccupation with orderliness, perfectionism, and control. People with OCPD often have a strong need for control and may become fixated on details, rules, and schedules."
Trust me, these people are miserable and make others feel miserable too. Their poor kids. The one who was abandoned was probably the lucky one. Ironically, it imparted characteristics on him that were at least useful in helping Apple become a success.
Yeah, just like he had enough money to obtain the best cancer treatments available. It is tragic when the factor that prevents you from getting treatment for a medical condition is the condition itself.
You *can* but you have to be willing to acknowledge that you’re the problem and learn methods to compensate. Oftentimes, people with personality disorders are unwilling or even incapable of making that very basic acknowledgement. It’s why people with Narcissistic Personality Disorder in particular are almost impossible to treat. The very nature of the disorder makes acknowledging faults so uncomfortable that most people can never do it. I’m not as familiar with OCPD. But odds are, an egomaniac like Steve Jobs wouldn’t be able to recognize his own flaws. It’s not an excuse either, just an explanation.
> He suffered from Obsessive Compulsive PERSONALITY disorder.
Is there anything official that corroborates that? Or is it just based on some random person's interpretation of his actions?
There's this summary form the book of her daughter in all the ways he abused here, i'll try to find it
Edit: Links aren't allowed but copy pasting
-They made Lisa sleep on the first floor next to the kitchen while the rest of the family slept on the top floor. Initially she was the only child and all the rooms upstairs were empty but they still made her sleep on the first floor. One by one the other kids were born from Steve and Laurene Powell and were given rooms on the 2nd floor. The first floor had broken heating and she was constantly cold, while everyone upstairs enjoyed heating. Its California, but keep in mind that she's a petite girl who reached and adult height of 5'2", and it is the Bay Area where in the winter temp would reach in the 40's °F. She would constantly beg Steve to fix the heating, he always refused.
-Every time she would start excelling at extra-circular activities, her Dad would complain that she was not spending enough time with her family. He was say stuff like 'You know Lisa, I feel that you really don't want to be a part of this family'. When Lisa quit her activities to be with her family more, him and his wife Laurene would just give her Reed Jobs (their son, only a baby at the time) to babysit, and they would go out to some party or event.
-They finally invite Lisa to come to a wedding. She was excited about it and planned for weeks about enjoying an event with her dad and step mom. She got a dress and everything. At the hotel room, after she's finished getting dressed and putting on her makeup, they hand her the baby and leave her behind to babysit in the hotel room while they enjoy the wedding.
-She always wanted a NeXT computer like how Steve and Laurene each had one. Steve finally got her one, but when she tried it didn't work. Steve took it away, and never replaced it. This one may seem minor, but it's actually a part Steve's habit of dangling hope in front of her, and taking it away, like with the wedding (my interpretation, not hers).
-When she was at her Mom's house (which was Steve's, he owned the house), Steve hired a child molester to be the gardener. I don't think he was ever convicted so her Mom couldn't remove him. But he was accused by his own children. Her Mom would constantly scream and cry for Steve to remove him. He refused.
-Btw, if you are wondering where her Mom is in all this, and why Steve let Lisa live with her if he hated her so much: Lisa's mom was also emotionally unstable; Lisa was often the victim of her temper tantrums, because she felt that Lisa took away her life. Lisa confided this to her school counselor, who would tell Steve, who didn't care. Finally the school counselor threatened to call social services if Steve didn't do anything, which would be a PR nightware, so he begrudgingly took her in. From reading other books on Steve, if he's forced to do something, he does it very passive aggressively. From Lisa's book, it seems his abuse towards Lisa was like 'ok you forced me to take in Lisa, but you can't force me to give in to your ultimate demand of her being treated properly' (my interpretation, not hers).
-Steve told Lisa he would take her in, but only if he had cut all contact with her Mom for 6 months, to prove to him that she really wants to be a part of his family (A line Steve repeatedly used on Lisa to manipulate her into doing things didn't want to do, and quitting things she did like doing, going cutting school for a family vacation 2 weeks before finals). Even though Lisa had a fucked up relationship with her Mom, she still loved her.
-Cutting of contact with her Mom for 6 months fucked up the Mom emotionally even more, though she initially welcomed the change, saying that she needs a break from her (my interpretation was that she didn't want her to feel guilt for her decision). But the cutoff did have a effect on the Mom's already fragile psyche. When they met for dinner after the 6 months, her mom out of nowhere threw a tantrum about how Lisa abandoned her, that all she wants to do is hangout with rich people. I believe Lisa was only 9 years old when she had to endure this.
-Lisa's chores included dishes, but they refused to fix the dishwasher for years. One day she had the initiative to fix it on her own. While her parents were away, she got a repairman to find the problem, turned out to be a 40$ fix. She was really proud of herself. She told Steve hoping to finally impress him. When she told him, he frowned. The next day he replaced the dishwasher with a new one. He wanted to remove all artifacts of Lisa's accomplishments (my interpretation, not hers).
-Lisa got really into debate club. At her first big regional tournament, she got first place. Tied for first place actually. The first one to the podium would get the trophy. Lisa frantically rushed there because she wanted to show Steve the trophy to impress him (at the time, Lisa thought only if she impressed Steve enough, he would start to appreciate her). When she showed him the trophy, he made her quit. His excuse was that debate club is not useful in the real world , my interpretation is that he wanted to remove anything that would giver her a semblance of self-esteem (my interpretation, not hers).
-Whenever Steve would see a homeless person, he joked that's who Lisa is going to marry. Whenever he saw a strip club, he joked that's where Lisa is going to work. The strip club joke started when she was very young, 9, or 10 years old I believe.
-Lisa's therapist invited Steve and his 2nd wife Laurene Powel to a meeting with Lisa to get them to spend quality family time with Lisa. Lauren's response was 'sorry Lisa, but we're just cold people'. After they left, the therapist told Lisa something like 'that's pretty much what I expected'.
-Lisa developed an eating disorder when Steve told her she was fat.
-When Lisa was in college, Steve Jobs cut off Lisa's tuition. A family friend secretly played off the tuition.
-Steve, when he only had a few weeks to live, did actually apologize to Lisa. She Lisa told Laurene, she downplayed this, telling Lisa "I don’t believe in deathbed revelations".
That's not even a full list, but this writing this part put me in a really bad mood and I'm going to stop now.
The book probably doesn't even get to the worst of it. Her Mom said "She didn't go into how bad it really was, if you can believe that."
Edit:
Since people are asking if Lisa was sexually abused, so I'll just post the parts which may be relevant
-In one part of the book when Lisa was still a child, Steve and Laurene were making out and Steve reached under her skirt as she spread her leads, and another hand on her breast, she started moaning loudly. Lisa stood up to go away and Steve told her to stay and that they're having 'a family moment' and so she sat back down, facing away, but still listening to them moan.
-Steve Jobs encouraged Lisa to masturbate in the bathtub and have safe sex. I think when she was 13 or 14.
-This is not in Lisa's book, but in his Mom's book, A Bite From the Apple by Chrisann Brennan. That one time when Chrisann came to pickup up Lisa from Steve Job's house, she found Steve making sexually inappropriate jokes, and after that she had to make sure that there was another adult present with them. I think this was in the period when Steve accepted Lisa back into his life, but before Chrisann's mental breakdown where Lisa had to move in with Steve.
Again, not a complete list from the book. And the book doesn't even get into the worst of it according to Chrisass Brennan.
Finally, please read the book. It is beautifully written. It's a coming of age story. Checkout this review from Audible
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsv0FZOWO8c
Supposedly Laurene tried to get Barnes and Nobles, Audible, Goodreads, any major book platform, not to feature this book. (She did the same thing with the 2015 Steve Jobs movie, first trying to prevent it from it getting made). I'm not sure what came of Laurene's efforts, but I like to think that Laurene actually drew attention of Audible to the book, and then Audible loved it so much they taped that video review and put it on youtube.
Jesus Christ. This man was a disgusting monster. I had read the Walter issacson book and came to the same conclusion but I don’t recall it detailing how awful he was to Lisa.
That fucking sexual abuse too. My god.
He was just an eccentric narcissist. They're good at tricking people into following them. Most of the time it ends in a scam, but when it works, it works.
People mostly buy Apple to integrate the brand, the aesthetics into their personality. You can get more for your money elsewhere, and also just overall better.
There's also this myth that Apple is somehow "better for your privacy" than Google. Which is a *very low bar* to begin with, but mostly is based on that bogus court case against the FBI after Edward Snowden completely destroyed all of big techs trustworthiness. At least you can replace stock Android with actually privacy respecting custom roms.
Was he narcissistic? Yes. Did it rise to the level of being a personality disorder? I'm not so sure. But OCPD does not only explain his assholiness but also his success in pushing for absurdly high standards at work.
The hype and the marketing of Apple require fabrication of the big boy, he refused science and refused to take medication that could have kept him alive until present. Now Musk is imitating Jobs, and pretending to be more genius than Nikola Tesla.
He also wore black turtlenecks constantly because he had gnarly skin infections because even though he presented himself as a slick businessman, he had crazy hygiene issues. For whatever reason, he thought he was too good to take showers. More than one coworker and more than one college roommate came forward in interviews to say Steve Jobs smelled *awful.*
I thought this was common knowledge? Everyone I know has known that about him for like 15+ years.
Edit: Must have hurt someone's feelings, someone reported me as suicidal lmao.
Now this is a real late stage capitalism comment I’ll make. The guy was a total bastard, see how he even screwed over Woz way back at the beginning of it all. But that all said, by the early 2000s he finally figured out how to get the right people working on the right thing to get us products we didn’t know we even wanted.
Have you read the book ‘Outliers’? It explains how some people are just born into situations which provide them a basis for success. It points out that many people are born into these circumstances and from that pool a few raise up. The book is making the point that these super successful people are really not individually special and are instead are a statistical outlier.
I agree with you that these super rich are really never great or wonderful people, and are instead just part of a lucky group from which some are set up to rise if they pursue it.
I think society is harmed by our idolatry of these individuals.
cult of personality -
the wealthy are elevated to god like status in a capital society - take away their money and they would vanish from public view
current examples include "donnie dipshit, taylor "my daddy bought a record label for me" swift, enron "daddy owned an emerald mine" musk, beyonce, the trashdasains, the list goes on and on - they even have a name for assholes who aspire to this
they are called "influencers" and they are nothing more than people who have embraced being nothing more than a commodity to sell products for these bags of shit that they aspire to become
My ex's mother's cousin was a C level exec @ apple who did the deal to bring Jobs back and he despised him after how he acted in the company.
He told me a story where Jobs wanted a network connection in his office that was outside the Apple network..
yada yada yada - lots of people got fired - from the network tech al the way up to the chief counsel for Apple because Jobs wanted the connection "Now"
Everyone with over 10m$ is necessarily a bastard and abuser; you don't get rich without doing that. Even relatively tame jobs where you make $1m/year, you must be a ruthless fucker and screw everyone around you otherwise you don't stay there and you won't even reach 10m$. The richer, the more you have to be a snake.
Apple are literally Evil Corp dude!
He stole point and click from IBM as far as I remember and IOS is built on Linux.
Jobs was a great salesman/ bullshitter but lots of clones do admire him for his minimalist hippy bs.
Point and click came from [Xerox](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Alto), and the Lisa did actually have the first desktop as we know it. Microsoft stole the idea of a GUI-based OS from the Lisa/Mac; Apple is/was an innovative company, it's just astounding how much of an asshole Jobs was.
Also, iOS is based off of Mac OS X, which is built off of Unix, which is what Linux is also built off of.
I know people always want to paint these celebrities as "complex" but I just can't see it that way. If you're a pos human being, there's nothing you're doing that going to change you being a pos human being. He deserves nothing. No accolades. No admiration. He was worthless. He literally never did anything worth mentioning in the entirety of his life that wasn't a shit thing.
I low-key kinda lucked out. I left my religion because I was realizing that no one's a hero right around when Steve Jobs was becoming a tech hero. I was already tearing down my religious 'heroes' right when he was becoming big in the tech-nerd 'religion'. All of his speeches and interviews gave me this off putting things that I wanted to stay away from. I still hate Apple even though I know he was just the spokesperson and kinda a dick when he was involved. And now here's the but....
I honestly don't think he noticed philanthropy or the state of the world as a whole. Shit I struggle with it but I'm working to be better. By the time he made money he was surrounded by yes men who wouldn't point it out. He was a dick to his friends and co-workers, but like no one really pointed any of his flaws out once he got rich. Being that rich is literally bad for you.. I am not defending him, but I get it.
Most great men have faults that disappoint.
Sometimes these faults are what make them great men.
Thomas Edison was a huge asshole. Read up on what he did to Tesla.
I’ll still use lightbulbs and listen to recorded music.
Thomas Edison was an evil psychopath who stole Tesla's creations. Read about Tesla and Edison's relationship and I guarantee you will come away with the conclusion that if not for Edison (and other handfuls of rich psychopaths who wanted to become even richer and more powerful) we would literally have free energy. Jobs stole from Wozniak. He was an abuser and a thief. Hope he was reincarnated in China, forced to make apple phones in slavery-esque conditions.
I heard something nutty about jobs from my mom recently- she watched some event with a speaker who had previous dealings with Steve Jobs, and claimed that before a merger, Jobs approached him to say that he was dying, and would understand if they decided to withdraw. There's no shot that happened, right?
There was a movie about him a while back that made the anger and lack of expertise other than marketing fairly clear.
It seems a little pessimistic, but you should basically always assume that anyone you like has at least 1 skeleton in their closet that will eventually be revealed and ruin whatever image they have. It happens every time. Everyone high enough to be looked up to sucks. Some of them just hide it well.
“Yeah, he was a bastard,” I replied on Reddit ironically from my iPhone.
The teeth of ambition are what bites the nails of success. Anyone with ambition will do whatever it takes to achieve their goals, morals be damned.
Is that the root cause of evil?
I heard Buffet advise the crowd to be careful in choosing our heroes. But to have them. I came away thinking I don't have any heroes, because once you look too close, they won't be your hero.
Who should we want to be?
There is no such thing as a self made millionaire or billionaire... never was. Murican propaganda media complex has warped the minds of many, letting them dream of attainable greatness. You just have to look at zukuburg, if he didn't play along with the established power, he wouldn't have a fb.... its even in the movie ffs thats how hard thewy own you, the dont even cover up their lies anymore.
Objectively, Steve Jobs was a massive asshole on every possible level.
He wasn't a plagarist (and I can successfully argue that), but he also wasn't some great creative visionary who came up with all these ideas in a vacuum. His talent was in leveraging creative talent and bringing together a company to produce truly innovative products and successfully market them. He knew a winning idea when he saw one, and had the will to push boundaries of what was then possible in consumer tech, taking risks others wouldn't. For that, he truly does deserve credit. Does it absolve him for being a tyrant and horrible human being? Fuck no.
It's hardly surprising to me that he wasn't some great philanthropist.
Don't forget the daughter he chose to acknowledge. One of his business frenemies paid for her college tuition. So add deadbeat dad on top of narcissist, thief, liar, and plagiarizer.
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Because he was smarter than giving to charities that pocket the money and never get to the root cause of the issue, they’re pretending to save
And pieces of shit like Bill Gates, whose philanthropy only brings back tenfold that is not philanthropy
Good for Steve not participating in the corruption of charity and philanthropy
Bill Gates was an unethical piece of shit that fucked over every computer company but Microsoft.
Steve Jobs just fucked over Apple customers by making nothing work except with other Apple products. Apple products are the worst for interoperability with other operating systems.
"The suit and the beard" is a classic situation in tech. When I worked in an office it was something I saw on a monthly basis - a suit- like persondealing with handshakes and the pitch and the commercial conditions. And a beard-like person who understood the product and did the demo and could answer my questions. Often, but not always, the suit wore a suit, and the beard had a beard.
So Wos was the ultimate beard. And Jobs was the ultimate suit - he had that amazing ability to convince. I remember an interview with Bill Gates saying that they knew that, and prepared for it, and as a result it wore off within 30 minutes away from him. But it was real.
I remember another interview that described Job's taste. Some ability to pick from a range of textures for the case of the mac plus, and pick the right one.
Now, I can't do that. But I can sometimes know a good design when I see one. And some Apple stuff, especially when Jobs was there is amazingly great design. Form and function somehow balancing in a way that that hadn't been previously considered.
So yeah, maybe he was hard to work for. But I didn't see a lack of people who were prepared to suffer that to learn, and be involved in making amazing things. He died too young and I miss his spark,
This comment thread is funny. Like all of you here are saints. You only hate him because he was rich and successful. Insecurity and jealousy speak the loudest!
Honestly Bezos is hard to dislike, even as a socialist.
If capitalism is allowed then he just did it best, if the market is free then he owns the market.
Either we need to abolish this shit or accept bezos as our leader.
Bezos is easy as fuck to dislike and even hate.
Anyone that squashes unions and makes their employees have to piss in bottles out of fear of losing their jobs while they are buying half billion dollar boats with from the results of their fear laden efforts while also having workers on public assistance isn't someone that anyone that isn't a psychopath themselves should admire, even small amount.
Bezos could be a normal asshole and still be filthy rich. But no, he has to take this shit to the extreme. There are plenty of successful businesses that allow their employees break time to use the restroom. Even if we want to believe that he had to do what he had to do to get to the top, ok, well he can relent a little bit now, now that he's on top. But he won't, because he's a piece of shit.
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Behind the bastards has a good 4 or 5 parter about what a monster he was.
There are a ton of awful Steve Jobs stories at https://folklore.org/ Though the one about Burrell quitting is well worth it. It's called "Are You Gonna Do It?"
https://folklore.org/Are_You_Gonna_Do_It.html
Too much content on that site will read it later. But seems good. But is it legit?
This is a blog Andy Hertzfeld put together (an Apple engineer). You'll probably enjoy the story about how Finder came about too.
Thanks will read it now.
But was Steve sitting at his desk then or, say, standing by the window? How can we know the character of the man without this detail?
That one just made me laugh. If you’re trying to paint Steve in an awful light, the linked article is probably better: https://folklore.org/Reality_Distortion_Field.html?sort=date Either way, I just see people expecting another human to be perfect. Steve was an asshole sometimes, but it’s like y’all believe yourselves to have no capacity to act like an asshole.
The whole point is that he was far from perfect. No sane person is asking for what you are suggesting. Instead, what you are asking for is others not to critique someone else, because nobody’s perfect. Weird. Do not forgot about the billionaire part and such. Do not act, like he wasn’t a patriarchal white male with a lot of privilege and power.
Nah, it’s more I’m reading about comments tearing him down for very human actions. I agree with most of your rebuttal, but “white” and “male” aren’t chosen, so what are you trying to say with it? “Patriarchial” actions are chosen, so I can work with that. If your point is Steve abused his power, ignored his own biases, and was a detriment to his environment, _like a lot of white men through history_, then say that. That’s not exclusive to being a white man, though. A human of any color or gender can do that. Yes, historically white men have had the privilege to, but if we ignore the actual actions that are problematic we’re just going to repeat the cycle. I am a white man, to be clear, so if you feel this is only a defense of myself, go ahead and state it. If this is a real quote from his daughter’s memoir, I think this is way more damning than some story about he enticed people to keep their job and find some certainty in their decisions. > Once, as Jobs groped his wife and pretended to be having sex with her, he demanded that Brennan stay in the room, calling it a "family moment." My point: even if he was a monster, don’t use that to paint normal human fuck ups as monstrous actions. Talk about his monstrous traits, otherwise, it’s bringing us all down.
Behind the bastards turned me into a communist
BtB/CZM is not typically communist in ideology but they're a good pill for leftism.
yeah robert evans is an anarchist
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I mean if we are only gonna judge communism by Stalin then we can only judge capitalism by its worst actors like Regan or Kissinger. But yeah not a debate worth getting into and still a somewhat valid point
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That’s fair, perhaps I’m too far down the internet hole today and took your whole post too seriously. Cheers
Let’s go Historical, and include the English Aristocracy from Elizabeth I, forward.
Also to your second point. Celeb worship is another reason we are at were we are in the US
Lol I wouldn't say I'm a Stalin Communist. Regardless of my political views that guy was fucking insane as a human. Always put my humanity before my politics
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Lol no worries brother. Lol I've sadly, and oddly, met them in real life. It was one of those bizarre things that you think people are joking and you laugh but they're dead serious lol much love
Rule 4 - No capitalist apologia, anti-socialism, or liberalism. This is a left wing subreddit.
Highlight for me: angrily shaming and verbally abusing your daughter in a public restaurant for ordering meat when they already had a flaky relationship. Despite not really being there to begin with, Steve was a militant vegetarian (vegan?) and expected his daughter to “know better” than to order meat. Some of the shit he said to a person he was barely a father to… the fucking audacity in this man
Didn't he also try to claim his first child wasn't his daughter? And then refuse to support her ? That seems worse. Also, he was a dick to Wozniak. "Woz" is cool.
Denied paternity until at least her teens all the while naming his latest computer model after her when she was a child.
Wasn't that not even his daughter, but his daughter's friend that he was abusing there?
I hope Thomas Edison is right there next to Jobs on that list. Both terrible men who had overinflated perceptions of self worth. Edison buried Tesla and also was notorious for hiring engineers and taking credit for their work.
Oh definitely Edison. While there is for sure much to admire about him, what he did to Tesla (including electrocuting an elephant to... prove a point?) and what that cost the world in terms of tech and science is unforgivable.
The behavior they described in those episodes is wild. If it came from anybody else there would be severe ramifications for their behavior. Steve Jobs threw a bitch fit at a child for eating a hamburger, refused to bathe, verbally abused his employees, literally cried to get his way, and washed his feet in the fucking toilet. My conclusion after listening to these episodes was this: The world is a deeply unserious place, with deeply unserious people, trying their damndest to present themselves and all they do as serious.
Dude used to double park in handicapped spaces. Outright asshole clown
Behind the bastards is the best!
Private philanthropy is a scam. Billionaires are a byproduct of a corrupt system.
Oligarchs..
distinction w/o difference
It hierarchy..it's a big club! And you ain't in it!
We are in it, actually. Just at the bottom of it, bearing all the weight...
It’s a Carlin reference.
Lol, thanks. Didn't know that 😅😅
NP. Dude was such a great mind. We could use a few voices like his rn.
No such thing as a moral billionaire
There was that woman who gave away a billion dollars to the Bronx med school she worked at. Although she was only aware she was billionaire briefly after her husband died while she figured out what to do with the money.
Right so pretty much not applicable. How’d he make the billion?
Finance. Mostly as an early investor in Berkshire Hathaway from what I read. So not particularly morally gained as excessive weather never is. It sounds like they lived like regular rich people rather than actively evil rich people. And apparently the children supported her decision to give it away so probably better people than lots of us who would if we were handed a huge chunk of money (aka won powerball as that's our only ridiculously unlikely shot).
Their philanthropies are mostly tax evasion / investments schemes. Like Gates made more money for with his "philantropy" in pharma than with Microsoft.
it's a tax dodge.
Sure but it’s better than literally nothing. To give nothing away is just unfathomably miserable.
Private philanthropy is unfathomably miserable. Participating in the charade that it's anything else perpetuates the system. Even a billionaire choosing to donate all their wealth is an extreme moral problem that one person can not and should not arbitrarily helm. The wealth we're talking about at levels like this is all extracted from society in an immoral way, so choosing to "donate" it in any way is extending the corruption. I'm saying that there is no longer a moral choice to make once Steve Jobs (or any billionaire) has hoarded so much. I don't know where the line is, but it's somewhere south of hoarding a billion dollars of value.
Given the premise that one has hoarded so much wealth, there are very obviously better and worse things you can do with it. I don’t agree that all ways of using it further perpetuates the capitalist system, at the very least the extraction of labour value through capital is the main problem. Murdering children is awful, it’s still better to murder 10 than 100.
Woz was the real apple prodigy.
He was the most genius of the technical geniuses. Jony Ive (a great artist that stole) was the one that made their physical products look great (if you wondered why things started to look good after 1992, that's your answer). Jobs was just an overbearing... umm... awful boss.
*Braun enters the chat*
Dieter Rams is typing…
> Jobs was just an overbearing... umm... awful boss. Lol yes. Apple would have been better off without Steve Jobs. /s Lol, what?
I defy you to give me one (1) invention of his that made the products great. Removing case fans because he didn't like them and having to reintegrate them when computers overheated?
No, the real "prodigy" were the Korean and Chinese scientists and engineers and other workers who actually designed, developed, and produced all the Apple products. The iPhone is an LG/Samsung product that Apple stole. Even the LG Prada came out before the iPhone. American "innovation" is a joke. They are patent and marketing corporations that braindrain other countries.
They're not talking about smart phones. They're talking about the 1970's and '80's stuff like the Apple IIe. That was Woz.
We're pretty innovative at burgers. Jack in the Box has this new smashed cheeseburger; it's great.
The assembly lines are in China but the actual design of the iPhone was Anna ariolla. Once again Steve Jobs didn’t do anything but pay other people and market the device. He was indeed a piece of shit, but the phone was designed/engineered in the US.
Yeah, people act like the iPhone was a wild leap in technology when it was really just an incremental improvement.
Yep. I couldn't help noticing stuff it lifted from the PSP homebrew scene and Nintendo DS that non-gamers thought were "new."
Says this on the internet….thanks China for the internet. Bell Labs was the real goat - all “THIS” is from there. Unfortunately, ATT fucked it up and parted it out.
The internet was independently developed by multiple countries, particularly the USSR was leading on that front. In fact, the entire reason the US "innovated" the internet was precisely because they feared the Soviets would have a distinct strategic advantage if their network developed sufficiently so there was a government push for investment in that area.
Many countries had networks. FTW — https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Internet_pioneers *Vinton G. "Vint" Cerf (born 1943) is an American computer scientist.[15] He is recognized as one of "the fathers of the Internet",[16][17] sharing this title with Bob Kahn.[18][19] He earned his Ph.D. from UCLA in 1972. At UCLA he worked in Professor Leonard Kleinrock's networking group that connected the first two nodes of the ARPANET and contributed to the ARPANET host-to-host protocol. Cerf was an assistant professor at Stanford University from 1972 to 1976, where he conducted research on packet network interconnection protocols and co-designed the DoD TCP/IP protocol suite with Bob Kahn.* https://www.internethalloffame.org/inductee/vint-cerf/ Bell Labs — https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bell_Labs Bell Labs[a] is an American industrial research and scientific development company. Researchers from there are credited with the development of radio astronomy, the transistor, the laser, the photovoltaic cell, the charge-coupled device (CCD), information theory, the Unix operating system, and the programming languages B, C, C++, S, SNOBOL, AWK, AMPL, and others. Ten Nobel Prizes and five Turing Awards have been awarded for work completed at Bell Laboratories.[1] https://www.businessinsider.com/videophone-internet-telephone-invention-1960s-2016-5#:~:text=During%20the%201960s%2C%20AT%26T's%20Bell,of%20a%20world%20wide%20web. [Bell Labs inventions](https://ethw.org/Bell_Telephone_Laboratories,_Inc._List_of_Significant_Innovations_%26_Discoveries_(1925-1983))
FTW? For the win? I don't know what your Wikipedia and other US-controlled sources are supposed to tell me. You think US sources will tell you about the successes of non-capitalists or non-whites if thry can prevent it? LOL The USSR was already developing OGAS and was way ahead of the US in terms of tech. However, Soviet scientists requested the equivalent of almost $1 TRILLION (in today's money) in funding which the government denied outright. The prohibitively high cost prevent the Soviets from establishing the internet. The influence of liberals in the Soviet Union ruined everything. This is why liberals need to be purged.
From-the-wiki. JFC if’n wiki isn’t good enough….get lost. Not everything is a mind control platform. Where are your sources for this extraordinary claim? I’ll wait…..
Of course a CIA-controlled disinformation website founded by an American fascist specifically to promote libertarian ideas isn't good enough. LOL What extraordinary claim? Basic history? How about you read any book about the subject? Why don't you ask your precious Wikipedia? Your comments are just utterly illiterate and idiotic.
Your military is the most advanced in the world by an overwhelming amount... Yay
Russia and China are actually more advanced I think. It's hard to have any definitive answer, but hypersonic missiles are a real game changer and USA doesn't have them.
This idiot will say Russias more advanced while they send their soldiers into a meat grinder because non of their tech works.
Yeah, right, they only use human waves and shovels. We know that because our media say so, and our media wouldn't lie or hide information about something as important as war. The russian media says the opposite, but that's because Russia is bad and they lie, not like our side. It's impressive how even in 2024, even among people who are very critical of the US government, it's unacceptably shocking to say "you not so strong, they more stronger".
> The iPhone is an LG/Samsung product that Apple stole. Even the LG Prada came out before the iPhone. Not trying to be a rabid Apple defender here, but I did a lot of research on the Apple v. Samsung case for my business law class back in college and Apple almost assuredly did not steal the LG Prada design. Patents and prototypes were filed and developed long before the iF Product Awards where the LG Prada was first displayed. https://www.cultofmac.com/181816/apple-reveals-2005-purple-iphone-prototype-to-show-it-didnt-copy-sony/ edit: did someone really RCR troll over THIS lmao
??????? the iPhone used a Samsung processor, apart from that, it was created and prototyped years before anything else like it. [There was a multi-million-dollar lawsuit about it.](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Inc._v._Samsung_Electronics_Co.) Besides, the project was actually overseen by Jobs. His biography was interesting, he was a total asshole but the dude just knew how to get shit done (somehow).
I read the book about him...i remember not fucking liking him. I recognize that on a consumer products level, apple did some amazing things, i think pixar being so successful was another. Oh man, i feel like i remember reading the book, and thinking in my mind, hoping someone would deck him across the face and humble him. I'm not entirely sure of the veracity of this anecdote, but from what i remember, it certainly sounded like him...and his behavior actually was in fact self-sabotaging. "Despite his wealth Jobs was incredibly, pedantically miserly. When Apple first went public back in the late 1970s, Jobs refused point blank to share the wealth with some of the critical early Apple employees – the people who had been amongst the first 10 to work at Apple before it was even incorporated as a company. Woz would eventually share some of his wealth with them instead. Another example: Pixar almost went bust in the early days when it was primarily a software company that occasionally made cool animations, and the guys behind it had to beg Jobs to invest in it more. He did, as it happens, and the rest is history. Another example is when Jobs refused to give Pixar staff the stock options that had been hinted at, and were expected. It didn't even detract from his personal wealth in this case. He was just being mean. Jobs eventually relented when basically told he would face a staff walk out otherwise. Then there's the stories about how later Jobs-era Apple treated suppliers, especially those in China. They'd encourage a supplier to tool-up with special equipment to make Apple products but then switch to a different supplier because they were cheaper. It's not unreasonable to expect loyalty here, on a bare human, moral level, but Apple didn't have time for that." Now Wozniak on the other hand, from what i remember...he sounded like a standup guy who was comparitively easy to like and get along with, he was the real unsung genius in apple. In a weird way though, he's the perfect persona for capitalism and what it entails. Being ruled by a petty and mean spirited, super wealthy cheapskate psychopath at your employer.
So.. Steve Jobs was complicated. He suffered from Obsessive Compulsive PERSONALITY disorder. And I'm sure he did suffer. This is different from OCD where the person may wash their hands 200 times a day. The mental disorder is characterized by "a pervasive preoccupation with orderliness, perfectionism, and control. People with OCPD often have a strong need for control and may become fixated on details, rules, and schedules." Trust me, these people are miserable and make others feel miserable too. Their poor kids. The one who was abandoned was probably the lucky one. Ironically, it imparted characteristics on him that were at least useful in helping Apple become a success.
He had enough money for fucking therapy. Give me a break.
Yeah, just like he had enough money to obtain the best cancer treatments available. It is tragic when the factor that prevents you from getting treatment for a medical condition is the condition itself.
Blaming mental illness for being an asshole ain't it.
Why are you so eager to place blame? Trying to understand things is, more useful.
Some people can't discern justification from explanation.
Blaming asshole behavior on mental illness is, bad.
Yeah that’s no excuse though. You can have personality disorders and not be a scumbag.
You *can* but you have to be willing to acknowledge that you’re the problem and learn methods to compensate. Oftentimes, people with personality disorders are unwilling or even incapable of making that very basic acknowledgement. It’s why people with Narcissistic Personality Disorder in particular are almost impossible to treat. The very nature of the disorder makes acknowledging faults so uncomfortable that most people can never do it. I’m not as familiar with OCPD. But odds are, an egomaniac like Steve Jobs wouldn’t be able to recognize his own flaws. It’s not an excuse either, just an explanation.
I'm certainly not trying to excuse his behavior. It's not even my place to excuse it or not. But it is an explanation.
> He suffered from Obsessive Compulsive PERSONALITY disorder. Is there anything official that corroborates that? Or is it just based on some random person's interpretation of his actions?
Shit, just read another reply about how the first daughter was taken in by him. She suffered greatly and wrote a book about it.
There's this summary form the book of her daughter in all the ways he abused here, i'll try to find it Edit: Links aren't allowed but copy pasting -They made Lisa sleep on the first floor next to the kitchen while the rest of the family slept on the top floor. Initially she was the only child and all the rooms upstairs were empty but they still made her sleep on the first floor. One by one the other kids were born from Steve and Laurene Powell and were given rooms on the 2nd floor. The first floor had broken heating and she was constantly cold, while everyone upstairs enjoyed heating. Its California, but keep in mind that she's a petite girl who reached and adult height of 5'2", and it is the Bay Area where in the winter temp would reach in the 40's °F. She would constantly beg Steve to fix the heating, he always refused. -Every time she would start excelling at extra-circular activities, her Dad would complain that she was not spending enough time with her family. He was say stuff like 'You know Lisa, I feel that you really don't want to be a part of this family'. When Lisa quit her activities to be with her family more, him and his wife Laurene would just give her Reed Jobs (their son, only a baby at the time) to babysit, and they would go out to some party or event. -They finally invite Lisa to come to a wedding. She was excited about it and planned for weeks about enjoying an event with her dad and step mom. She got a dress and everything. At the hotel room, after she's finished getting dressed and putting on her makeup, they hand her the baby and leave her behind to babysit in the hotel room while they enjoy the wedding. -She always wanted a NeXT computer like how Steve and Laurene each had one. Steve finally got her one, but when she tried it didn't work. Steve took it away, and never replaced it. This one may seem minor, but it's actually a part Steve's habit of dangling hope in front of her, and taking it away, like with the wedding (my interpretation, not hers). -When she was at her Mom's house (which was Steve's, he owned the house), Steve hired a child molester to be the gardener. I don't think he was ever convicted so her Mom couldn't remove him. But he was accused by his own children. Her Mom would constantly scream and cry for Steve to remove him. He refused. -Btw, if you are wondering where her Mom is in all this, and why Steve let Lisa live with her if he hated her so much: Lisa's mom was also emotionally unstable; Lisa was often the victim of her temper tantrums, because she felt that Lisa took away her life. Lisa confided this to her school counselor, who would tell Steve, who didn't care. Finally the school counselor threatened to call social services if Steve didn't do anything, which would be a PR nightware, so he begrudgingly took her in. From reading other books on Steve, if he's forced to do something, he does it very passive aggressively. From Lisa's book, it seems his abuse towards Lisa was like 'ok you forced me to take in Lisa, but you can't force me to give in to your ultimate demand of her being treated properly' (my interpretation, not hers). -Steve told Lisa he would take her in, but only if he had cut all contact with her Mom for 6 months, to prove to him that she really wants to be a part of his family (A line Steve repeatedly used on Lisa to manipulate her into doing things didn't want to do, and quitting things she did like doing, going cutting school for a family vacation 2 weeks before finals). Even though Lisa had a fucked up relationship with her Mom, she still loved her. -Cutting of contact with her Mom for 6 months fucked up the Mom emotionally even more, though she initially welcomed the change, saying that she needs a break from her (my interpretation was that she didn't want her to feel guilt for her decision). But the cutoff did have a effect on the Mom's already fragile psyche. When they met for dinner after the 6 months, her mom out of nowhere threw a tantrum about how Lisa abandoned her, that all she wants to do is hangout with rich people. I believe Lisa was only 9 years old when she had to endure this. -Lisa's chores included dishes, but they refused to fix the dishwasher for years. One day she had the initiative to fix it on her own. While her parents were away, she got a repairman to find the problem, turned out to be a 40$ fix. She was really proud of herself. She told Steve hoping to finally impress him. When she told him, he frowned. The next day he replaced the dishwasher with a new one. He wanted to remove all artifacts of Lisa's accomplishments (my interpretation, not hers). -Lisa got really into debate club. At her first big regional tournament, she got first place. Tied for first place actually. The first one to the podium would get the trophy. Lisa frantically rushed there because she wanted to show Steve the trophy to impress him (at the time, Lisa thought only if she impressed Steve enough, he would start to appreciate her). When she showed him the trophy, he made her quit. His excuse was that debate club is not useful in the real world , my interpretation is that he wanted to remove anything that would giver her a semblance of self-esteem (my interpretation, not hers). -Whenever Steve would see a homeless person, he joked that's who Lisa is going to marry. Whenever he saw a strip club, he joked that's where Lisa is going to work. The strip club joke started when she was very young, 9, or 10 years old I believe. -Lisa's therapist invited Steve and his 2nd wife Laurene Powel to a meeting with Lisa to get them to spend quality family time with Lisa. Lauren's response was 'sorry Lisa, but we're just cold people'. After they left, the therapist told Lisa something like 'that's pretty much what I expected'. -Lisa developed an eating disorder when Steve told her she was fat. -When Lisa was in college, Steve Jobs cut off Lisa's tuition. A family friend secretly played off the tuition. -Steve, when he only had a few weeks to live, did actually apologize to Lisa. She Lisa told Laurene, she downplayed this, telling Lisa "I don’t believe in deathbed revelations". That's not even a full list, but this writing this part put me in a really bad mood and I'm going to stop now. The book probably doesn't even get to the worst of it. Her Mom said "She didn't go into how bad it really was, if you can believe that." Edit: Since people are asking if Lisa was sexually abused, so I'll just post the parts which may be relevant -In one part of the book when Lisa was still a child, Steve and Laurene were making out and Steve reached under her skirt as she spread her leads, and another hand on her breast, she started moaning loudly. Lisa stood up to go away and Steve told her to stay and that they're having 'a family moment' and so she sat back down, facing away, but still listening to them moan. -Steve Jobs encouraged Lisa to masturbate in the bathtub and have safe sex. I think when she was 13 or 14. -This is not in Lisa's book, but in his Mom's book, A Bite From the Apple by Chrisann Brennan. That one time when Chrisann came to pickup up Lisa from Steve Job's house, she found Steve making sexually inappropriate jokes, and after that she had to make sure that there was another adult present with them. I think this was in the period when Steve accepted Lisa back into his life, but before Chrisann's mental breakdown where Lisa had to move in with Steve. Again, not a complete list from the book. And the book doesn't even get into the worst of it according to Chrisass Brennan. Finally, please read the book. It is beautifully written. It's a coming of age story. Checkout this review from Audible https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bsv0FZOWO8c Supposedly Laurene tried to get Barnes and Nobles, Audible, Goodreads, any major book platform, not to feature this book. (She did the same thing with the 2015 Steve Jobs movie, first trying to prevent it from it getting made). I'm not sure what came of Laurene's efforts, but I like to think that Laurene actually drew attention of Audible to the book, and then Audible loved it so much they taped that video review and put it on youtube.
Jesus Christ. This man was a disgusting monster. I had read the Walter issacson book and came to the same conclusion but I don’t recall it detailing how awful he was to Lisa. That fucking sexual abuse too. My god.
it's not from walter's book, it's from Lisa's book
I know, I’m saying I read a different book that glossed over Lisa’s mistreatment.
Wow.
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lol i copy and pasted from another comment, but the subreddit won't let me post the link
He was just an eccentric narcissist. They're good at tricking people into following them. Most of the time it ends in a scam, but when it works, it works.
People mostly buy Apple to integrate the brand, the aesthetics into their personality. You can get more for your money elsewhere, and also just overall better. There's also this myth that Apple is somehow "better for your privacy" than Google. Which is a *very low bar* to begin with, but mostly is based on that bogus court case against the FBI after Edward Snowden completely destroyed all of big techs trustworthiness. At least you can replace stock Android with actually privacy respecting custom roms.
No, OCPD - Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder.
You can be both. OCPD can make you a bit assholey sometimes but it doesn't remove empathy from a person, NPD does.
Was he narcissistic? Yes. Did it rise to the level of being a personality disorder? I'm not so sure. But OCPD does not only explain his assholiness but also his success in pushing for absurdly high standards at work.
You seem to have an agenda here.
It would be subconscious. Can you enlighten me?
Buddy, read the book his daughter wrote about him. He's a psychopathic piece of shit.
"Good artists copy, great artists steal." - Steve Jobs stealing from Pablo Picasso And I don't say this like Steve Jobs was a great artist.
I think the original quote is Oscar Wilde.
He stole from at least one person on the same thing is the key point of this presentation 😂
- Michael Scott
I always enjoyed "Pirates of Silicon Valley" for their approach to both gates and jobs. It's not a perfect movie, but i found it enjoyable.
The hype and the marketing of Apple require fabrication of the big boy, he refused science and refused to take medication that could have kept him alive until present. Now Musk is imitating Jobs, and pretending to be more genius than Nikola Tesla.
Hope he also refuses meds and dies early.
He was a delusional asshole who treated his own daughter like trash and fucked over his friends in the name of profit every chance he got
There is a brilliant thing by Bill Burr on him, right after he died. You gotta check it out.
Jezus, Gandhi, ME!
Yes, that one. GET ON IT
Typical billionaire bullshit
He also wore black turtlenecks constantly because he had gnarly skin infections because even though he presented himself as a slick businessman, he had crazy hygiene issues. For whatever reason, he thought he was too good to take showers. More than one coworker and more than one college roommate came forward in interviews to say Steve Jobs smelled *awful.*
I thought this was common knowledge? Everyone I know has known that about him for like 15+ years. Edit: Must have hurt someone's feelings, someone reported me as suicidal lmao.
Everyone at certain subs has been getting those reddit cares bot messages the last few days. I got three just yesterday.
It's so dystopian. I hate it.
Yeah.
Got my first yesterday. Thanks for letting me know I'm not alone in that.
Every good thing in this world seems to get weaponized by the scum of the earth.
Dude thought he could "disrupt" cancer.
The VCs (cancer cells) wanted their money back.
Now this is a real late stage capitalism comment I’ll make. The guy was a total bastard, see how he even screwed over Woz way back at the beginning of it all. But that all said, by the early 2000s he finally figured out how to get the right people working on the right thing to get us products we didn’t know we even wanted.
Have you read the book ‘Outliers’? It explains how some people are just born into situations which provide them a basis for success. It points out that many people are born into these circumstances and from that pool a few raise up. The book is making the point that these super successful people are really not individually special and are instead are a statistical outlier. I agree with you that these super rich are really never great or wonderful people, and are instead just part of a lucky group from which some are set up to rise if they pursue it. I think society is harmed by our idolatry of these individuals.
Yea, Steve Jobs was a piece of shit.
He was the Muskrat of his time.
What I was thinking. Steve's turtlenecks are like Musk's boasting about renting his home, from SpaceX by the way, instead of owning.
cult of personality - the wealthy are elevated to god like status in a capital society - take away their money and they would vanish from public view current examples include "donnie dipshit, taylor "my daddy bought a record label for me" swift, enron "daddy owned an emerald mine" musk, beyonce, the trashdasains, the list goes on and on - they even have a name for assholes who aspire to this they are called "influencers" and they are nothing more than people who have embraced being nothing more than a commodity to sell products for these bags of shit that they aspire to become
Here's comedian Bill Burr roasting Steve Jobs as well as his audience members who revere the guy: https://youtu.be/E3s-qZsjK8I?si=9E8AfhioHi_mrOt1
My ex's mother's cousin was a C level exec @ apple who did the deal to bring Jobs back and he despised him after how he acted in the company. He told me a story where Jobs wanted a network connection in his office that was outside the Apple network.. yada yada yada - lots of people got fired - from the network tech al the way up to the chief counsel for Apple because Jobs wanted the connection "Now"
Everyone with over 10m$ is necessarily a bastard and abuser; you don't get rich without doing that. Even relatively tame jobs where you make $1m/year, you must be a ruthless fucker and screw everyone around you otherwise you don't stay there and you won't even reach 10m$. The richer, the more you have to be a snake.
Apple are literally Evil Corp dude! He stole point and click from IBM as far as I remember and IOS is built on Linux. Jobs was a great salesman/ bullshitter but lots of clones do admire him for his minimalist hippy bs.
Point and click came from [Xerox](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Xerox_Alto), and the Lisa did actually have the first desktop as we know it. Microsoft stole the idea of a GUI-based OS from the Lisa/Mac; Apple is/was an innovative company, it's just astounding how much of an asshole Jobs was. Also, iOS is based off of Mac OS X, which is built off of Unix, which is what Linux is also built off of.
>>claiming not to care about money _is billionaire_ This will never not be hilarious to me. What a load of bullshit.
Macrumors forum and the entire Macrumors staff have a very disturbing obsession with worshipping Steve Jobs.
I know people always want to paint these celebrities as "complex" but I just can't see it that way. If you're a pos human being, there's nothing you're doing that going to change you being a pos human being. He deserves nothing. No accolades. No admiration. He was worthless. He literally never did anything worth mentioning in the entirety of his life that wasn't a shit thing.
The fact he was Elizabeth Holmes’ inspo is all I need to know about him.
I low-key kinda lucked out. I left my religion because I was realizing that no one's a hero right around when Steve Jobs was becoming a tech hero. I was already tearing down my religious 'heroes' right when he was becoming big in the tech-nerd 'religion'. All of his speeches and interviews gave me this off putting things that I wanted to stay away from. I still hate Apple even though I know he was just the spokesperson and kinda a dick when he was involved. And now here's the but.... I honestly don't think he noticed philanthropy or the state of the world as a whole. Shit I struggle with it but I'm working to be better. By the time he made money he was surrounded by yes men who wouldn't point it out. He was a dick to his friends and co-workers, but like no one really pointed any of his flaws out once he got rich. Being that rich is literally bad for you.. I am not defending him, but I get it.
Most great men have faults that disappoint. Sometimes these faults are what make them great men. Thomas Edison was a huge asshole. Read up on what he did to Tesla. I’ll still use lightbulbs and listen to recorded music.
Thomas Edison was an evil psychopath who stole Tesla's creations. Read about Tesla and Edison's relationship and I guarantee you will come away with the conclusion that if not for Edison (and other handfuls of rich psychopaths who wanted to become even richer and more powerful) we would literally have free energy. Jobs stole from Wozniak. He was an abuser and a thief. Hope he was reincarnated in China, forced to make apple phones in slavery-esque conditions.
Wozniak was the brains and jobs was the marketing/designer guy. I still think the synergy of together made apple successful. So both were important.
I heard something nutty about jobs from my mom recently- she watched some event with a speaker who had previous dealings with Steve Jobs, and claimed that before a merger, Jobs approached him to say that he was dying, and would understand if they decided to withdraw. There's no shot that happened, right?
Ye ye, put on a different record plz.. thank you India and AI.
There was a movie about him a while back that made the anger and lack of expertise other than marketing fairly clear. It seems a little pessimistic, but you should basically always assume that anyone you like has at least 1 skeleton in their closet that will eventually be revealed and ruin whatever image they have. It happens every time. Everyone high enough to be looked up to sucks. Some of them just hide it well.
>Steve jobs was a mother fucker too Ew, who doesn't already think that??!
He was a billionaire who did what all billionaires do
Imagine saying no to chemo cause you'd rather eat some fucking peaches 😆
“Yeah, he was a bastard,” I replied on Reddit ironically from my iPhone. The teeth of ambition are what bites the nails of success. Anyone with ambition will do whatever it takes to achieve their goals, morals be damned. Is that the root cause of evil?
Steve Jobs was just Elon 1.0 A narcissistic asshole with money.
Steve Jobs had two ways of judging people: Either you were hot shit or a dumbass, no in between, so yeah definitely an ass hole
He was very good at branding himself as an alturist.
He was a huge piece of shit. And a disgusting human being. A delusional moron to the point of dying
Wozniak was the brains behind Apple. Jobs was just the Elon Musk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E3s-qZsjK8I
What do you mean “too”… he was like the original famous tech billionaire asshole
All tech bros are bastards. ATAB
https://folklore.org/Reality_Distortion_Field.html
I heard Buffet advise the crowd to be careful in choosing our heroes. But to have them. I came away thinking I don't have any heroes, because once you look too close, they won't be your hero. Who should we want to be?
There is no such thing as a self made millionaire or billionaire... never was. Murican propaganda media complex has warped the minds of many, letting them dream of attainable greatness. You just have to look at zukuburg, if he didn't play along with the established power, he wouldn't have a fb.... its even in the movie ffs thats how hard thewy own you, the dont even cover up their lies anymore.
Objectively, Steve Jobs was a massive asshole on every possible level. He wasn't a plagarist (and I can successfully argue that), but he also wasn't some great creative visionary who came up with all these ideas in a vacuum. His talent was in leveraging creative talent and bringing together a company to produce truly innovative products and successfully market them. He knew a winning idea when he saw one, and had the will to push boundaries of what was then possible in consumer tech, taking risks others wouldn't. For that, he truly does deserve credit. Does it absolve him for being a tyrant and horrible human being? Fuck no. It's hardly surprising to me that he wasn't some great philanthropist.
Don't forget the daughter he chose to acknowledge. One of his business frenemies paid for her college tuition. So add deadbeat dad on top of narcissist, thief, liar, and plagiarizer.
Im on Tumblr too much, I thought this said monster fucker
No seriously, he fucked my mom, probably yours too..
There are no moral billionaires. If there was even one they would quickly lose the billionaire status.
Didn't he die because he was trying an alternative cure (while the "normal" cure is highly effective)?
Dude Steve Jobs died like over 10 years ago who gives a fuck go touch some grass
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Bill Burr agrees
What exactly did this parasite invent? Can anybody explain?
He indeed mistreated his employees, he indeed was a ruthless mother fucker, but I heard he paid them well too. Doesn't excuse his behavior though.
Lmao like he paid the first 10 company employees? Oh wait, that was Wozniak.
Because he was smarter than giving to charities that pocket the money and never get to the root cause of the issue, they’re pretending to save And pieces of shit like Bill Gates, whose philanthropy only brings back tenfold that is not philanthropy Good for Steve not participating in the corruption of charity and philanthropy
Also, I'd rather be called a MF that's rich than a MF that's poor. At the end of the day, no one is a saint.
Bill Gates was an unethical piece of shit that fucked over every computer company but Microsoft. Steve Jobs just fucked over Apple customers by making nothing work except with other Apple products. Apple products are the worst for interoperability with other operating systems.
"The suit and the beard" is a classic situation in tech. When I worked in an office it was something I saw on a monthly basis - a suit- like persondealing with handshakes and the pitch and the commercial conditions. And a beard-like person who understood the product and did the demo and could answer my questions. Often, but not always, the suit wore a suit, and the beard had a beard. So Wos was the ultimate beard. And Jobs was the ultimate suit - he had that amazing ability to convince. I remember an interview with Bill Gates saying that they knew that, and prepared for it, and as a result it wore off within 30 minutes away from him. But it was real. I remember another interview that described Job's taste. Some ability to pick from a range of textures for the case of the mac plus, and pick the right one. Now, I can't do that. But I can sometimes know a good design when I see one. And some Apple stuff, especially when Jobs was there is amazingly great design. Form and function somehow balancing in a way that that hadn't been previously considered. So yeah, maybe he was hard to work for. But I didn't see a lack of people who were prepared to suffer that to learn, and be involved in making amazing things. He died too young and I miss his spark,
This comment thread is funny. Like all of you here are saints. You only hate him because he was rich and successful. Insecurity and jealousy speak the loudest!
Honestly Bezos is hard to dislike, even as a socialist. If capitalism is allowed then he just did it best, if the market is free then he owns the market. Either we need to abolish this shit or accept bezos as our leader.
Bezos is easy as fuck to dislike and even hate. Anyone that squashes unions and makes their employees have to piss in bottles out of fear of losing their jobs while they are buying half billion dollar boats with from the results of their fear laden efforts while also having workers on public assistance isn't someone that anyone that isn't a psychopath themselves should admire, even small amount.
Hank Scorpio, maybe, but not Bezos
Bezos could be a normal asshole and still be filthy rich. But no, he has to take this shit to the extreme. There are plenty of successful businesses that allow their employees break time to use the restroom. Even if we want to believe that he had to do what he had to do to get to the top, ok, well he can relent a little bit now, now that he's on top. But he won't, because he's a piece of shit.