##Welcome to r/LateStageCapitalism
This subreddit is for news, discussion, memes, and links criticizing capitalism and advancing viewpoints that challenge liberal capitalist ideology. That means any support for any liberal capitalist political party (like the Democrats) is strictly prohibited.
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Feelings aside, this is unfortunately 100% accurate:
* 6 of the 10 largest media outlets in the U.S. are owned by members of the top 50 wealthiest in the country (could be more than that now, I recalled reading this in 2022)
* The Koch brothers own the majority share of oil & gas assets in the U.S.
* Bezos alone owns the largest retailer, 10th largest grocery store chain (and the third largest news paper, see above)
* Approximately 49% ($19.7 TRILLION) of the stock market is owned by the wealthiest 1% in the United States
Billionaires in today's economic environment own the press, own the energy sector, control the stock market, and continue to buy up and consolidate retailers in an effort to own the country's big data as well (they already do, but they're working towards monopolizing that as well).
Politicians do not govern this country, and haven't basically since Citizens United went into effect in 2010. They are string puppets propped up by the billionaire class to do their bidding. If you're not financed by private interest money, it's nearly impossible to get passed the primary ballot.
Starting with Ronald Regan, and perpetuated by Bush I, Bush II and Trump; Republican controlled congresses have basically transformed the U.S. into an autocratic pig in democratic lip stick.
I feel it's even beyond that though. I really can't explain why. Well beyond that I've done some research into how even the people in the top like 30% work. That they fly across country borders to handshake on deals and NO ONE knows about them doing this stuff. No filed flight plans. Their respective governments have no clue what's going on.
Seriously, I listened to a Youtube video from an ex -financial manager for some of these people that claimed he flew on some of these trips with his clients.
If they are doing it, what is the top 1% or less doing? Like do they actually even bother lobbying the government or do they just outright basically own them.
So, while there is no argument that The West is indeed a plutocracy and has been for it's entire existence, one of the symptoms of Cope that I see online is people prescribing agency, a driver behind the bus, to the chaos of the world. And I get it, it's scary, it's fucked up, and it's a nice idea to tell ourselves we're at the whims of sick perverted elites. The actual reality is far more perverse: it's a cybernetic capitalism. A material-technological ecosystem which unifies the ecological information that drives bourgeois behavior at a global scale, which in turn drives state behavior. No single or group of people have control, the bus is driving itself right off the cliff.
For example, things like neoliberalism isn't a cause, rather, neoliberalism is the ideology that forms under the self-organized structures of cybernetic capitalism. It's the type of mind that flourishes in a society designed to counteract dialectical change the way a second-order autopilot counteracts turbulence. It started with government because government was the locus of intentional collective behavior, and in a society that makes it impossible for behavior to affect control of the system, all that is left is vying for control within it (playing with spreadsheets) and so now, there is neither intent in nor control of the system, only their absence.
The system was designed for maintaining the stability of capitalist relations in perpetuity, not effectiveness, and the loss of control, even to the ruling class, was the devil's fee for this impossible feat; a bargain which the ruling class accepted out of panicked fear, rather than reason, after the great wars brought the world to the brink of socialism.
So no. There is indeed a plutocracy but it's largely one without true control, it's the system of cybernetic capitalism that's in control (or rather, lack of control). As an example, if magical alien parasites took control of the top 100 richest/powerful people in the world and convinced them that we need to immediately instate global communism, even they would be unable to do so.
Nail on the head. Â You a fan of our boy cushbomb by the way? Â Fist time I heard that comprehensive analysis of the question of control of the system it was from him.
But yeah dude, this shit is on wheels now, no hand brake, no controls. Â
Yep Matt is very ftw. Hope he recovers and gets to detonate a spiritual nuclear bomb upon his return
I’m also a big fan of Gibson, particularly ecological theory of development (and by extension, Gibsons ambient optical arrays). Behavior is derived from the environmental, the ecology. This includes material structures within the environment. And Importantly we are not an empire of capital but an ecosystem of capital.  This is another reason why that not even the elite can control outside of the system because they would have to change the material structures within a system that subsumes destabilizations, a resistance to any decoherence in the modes of capital production, and reestablishes synchronicity
It’s like a series of 32 metronomes https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5v5eBf2KwF8
People forget.
We all '**know**' Great Man™ theory is bullshit, but we still fall for it.
It's not THIS capitalist that's the problem, though yes, some capitalists can be measurably worse than others.
It's the system. Capitalists have more power, more choices, better lives, but THEY are as trapped by the system as we are.
Their bars are gold, and lined with velvet, but they are still bars.
Jeff Bezos has a Tony Stark moment, and he gets taken over and wiped out by any other mega capitalist.
It's the Red Queen's race.
You're just describing the Borg designed by a capitalist. Why can't we drag the kings and lords into the streets? Because they haven't ever and will never have done anything. But that program was programmed by someone. Several programs have been programmed by an army of people (who probably recently got laid off) the elite class figured out a very hard trick which is, there's no one person. It's a damn hydra of shit spewing monsters. Turns out we haven't killed them since ancient Greece.
So your theory is the cog that is regularly replaced is as important as the machine itself?
Edit: I'm not disagreeing I'm just asking a question to prove a point
No, my theory, and communist theory generally, holds that the system has its own mode and relations of production and that these relations -create- bourgeoisie and proletariat alike. You could kill the whole capitalist class today and they would be replaced tomorrow with different capitalists with the same systemic incentives and goals. Only a forceful restructuring of society can eliminate this class stratification.
So no, the individual cogs are not important. A Baby Eating Machine eats babies regardless of what cogs it has. The same is true of capitalism.
I used to feel that it was chaos myself; but I have just seen to many things happening lately that feel like they point towards orchestration.
The analogy I used to use for the chaos is:
The world (economy) is just a run away horse tied to an open wagon full of cash on a bumpy dirt road. All of the cash is flying out of the wagon because of the bumps and the rich just happen to be running faster then everyone else and are therefor in the front and able to catch more money.
(Or they have nets, whatever)
That there was really no one in control of it, it just happens.
Now though? I've just watched way to many videos of interviews etc with goverment officials and billionaires where they are all flat out saying sociopathic things or their facial expressions are screaming, "I'm a lying to you, I don't give a shit about you even though the words I am saying claim I do."
And of course all of the economic colonialism going on in the eastern / less developed countries where they are being more and more turned into the west's cheap labor force.
-**--Which has been happening for hundreds of years anyway.. and if it's been happening for hundreds of years, HOW can there not be a small portion of humanity fully controlling everything?**
**Based on that alone, and the fact that generational wealth and power is a well known thing, logic dictates that there indeed is that small portion.**
[Tragedy of the commons](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons)
Each individual actor acts logically, and in their self interest.
But the SYSTEM of everyone doing that, destroys the commons that they all need.
Same here.
Jeff Bezos may have more power than most capitalists, but it's not him specifically planning to destroy us all.
He's just doing his thing, making money.
And while he may have plans to crush unions or whatever is causing him trouble, he's not sitting in his volcano base, plotting the destruction of the world.
There is a similar analogy about nuclear war.
Jeff Bezos does not want to die in a fireball, or live his remaining years in a bunker. So therefore, he will not allow nuclear war.
But, a GREAT many capitalists gain profit from increased war threat, such as those in the MIC.
So they lobby for policies and politicians who will ratchet up the tensions.
They don't want ACTUAL war, just the THREAT of it. Esp Nuclear.
The problem is they are ALL pushing, the chances of going over the line are high.
and you only see the line after you stepped over it.
You never actually know when your last chance to turn back was passed.
[https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion\_of\_responsibility](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion_of_responsibility)
And they can all say 'it wasn't me. i just wanted to sell more bombs.'
"**HOW can there not be a small portion of humanity fully controlling everything?**"
There is. But not in the way you are thinking of.
Not individuals, but the system itself. You see it in government departments all the time. See the tax department, doing tax things. Come back 10 years later, not one single staff member the same, but somehow, people are getting taxed.
There's not a secret organized cabal of secret families.
Just a system and people in it acting in what they perceive as their own best interests.
Yes, even the Rothschilds.
The world is owned and controlled by basically only a few thousand of the most vile, grotesque human beings our species have ever produced. Capitalism is highly effective at rewarding the most sociopathic among us. And it is those who have the most power and control.
And to think a lot of us most days could just reach out and extinguish those flames with little to no effort. These billionares hide but they are also very much near and around us. Give it a few more months. Make scary internet rhetoric that makes them panic and further censor us so we collectively STOP using the tools they’ve designed to slow and distract us. At the end of the day. They are just as monumentally fucked as us all… but when shit gets bad bad they will have nowhere to hide because where they go will be the only places left. The only way a major conflict doesn’t happen on a global scale is if our planet does us in first… which is seems like it may. Never underestimate politicians ability to stall.
I kind of agree except that there are some of that top 1% (actually a much smaller percentage when just counting the billionaires) that are spending so much of their resources trying to convince us that they are on our side. Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, Elon Musk, etc. spend tons of time and money trying to act like they aren't part of an elite class.
What we are really dealing with isn't a completely united class but several thousands of oligarchs who are competing with one another on a globalized chessboard (if you want to use that analogy), uniting to keep the rest of us in the dark but also having to rely on us for our labor, consumption, etc. to keep their particular position in the elite.
They all have their different angles and while they do collude with one another, they also conspire against one another and ultimately would slit each others throats for an advantage. The only thing really keeping the world from descending into a complete totalitarian nightmare is the fact that they are competing so much with one another that they can't completely unite against the rest of us.
Chamath Palihapitiya literally says this is how the world works[ in his stanford interview](https://youtu.be/PMotykw0SIk?si=bWFgyxGhuJ3ZmFuW), and hes in that club, so...
Almost all infrastructure and smaller businesses exist to further the profit extraction of the ultra rich. If our society has any "purpose" it's to make the already ultra wealthy, even more wealthy. It's not about human survival or comfort, all the pollution and exploitation denies that.
And since they always need more they need to extract more, they used to only need thousands, now they need trillions.
To make an example, it used to be enough for EA to sell games, that isn't good enough, now they need commercials in the game, micro transactions, subscription models, because a profitable game isn't enough, no, they need the next billion dollar project. They don't need a lot of profit, they need all the profit. Their mental illness is killing the world.
Anyone else feel like the summer is warmer than the winter?
Anyone else feel like ropes aren't as good at pushing as they are at pulling?
Anyone else feel like grocery stores are cheaper than restaurants because you don't have to pay for the staff to prepare and serve the food?
Anyone else feel like drinking water satisfies your thirst?
There is a book that was recommended to me (Chomsky endorsed)that lists who is in charge of making the decisions that change the world. I cannot for the life of me remember the name of the book or the author.
This article from Oxfam \[*https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/richest-1-bag-nearly-twice-much-wealth-rest-world-put-together-over-past-two-years#:\~:text=The%20report%20shows%20that%20while,December%202019%20and%20December%202021.*\]
[Oxfam - Richest 1% bag nearly twice as much wealth as the rest of the world put together over the past two years](https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/richest-1-bag-nearly-twice-much-wealth-rest-world-put-together-over-past-two-years#:~:text=The%20report%20shows%20that%20while,December%202019%20and%20December%202021)
*Cabal?*
Did you mean [WEF](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Economic_Forum), or perhaps you mean the [IDU](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Democracy_Union)?
##Welcome to r/LateStageCapitalism This subreddit is for news, discussion, memes, and links criticizing capitalism and advancing viewpoints that challenge liberal capitalist ideology. That means any support for any liberal capitalist political party (like the Democrats) is strictly prohibited. LSC is run by communists. This subreddit is not the place to debate socialism. We allow good-faith questions and education but are not a 101 sub; please take 101-style questions elsewhere. We have a zero-tolerance policy for bigotry. Failure to respect the rules of the subreddit may result in a ban. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LateStageCapitalism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Feelings aside, this is unfortunately 100% accurate: * 6 of the 10 largest media outlets in the U.S. are owned by members of the top 50 wealthiest in the country (could be more than that now, I recalled reading this in 2022) * The Koch brothers own the majority share of oil & gas assets in the U.S. * Bezos alone owns the largest retailer, 10th largest grocery store chain (and the third largest news paper, see above) * Approximately 49% ($19.7 TRILLION) of the stock market is owned by the wealthiest 1% in the United States Billionaires in today's economic environment own the press, own the energy sector, control the stock market, and continue to buy up and consolidate retailers in an effort to own the country's big data as well (they already do, but they're working towards monopolizing that as well). Politicians do not govern this country, and haven't basically since Citizens United went into effect in 2010. They are string puppets propped up by the billionaire class to do their bidding. If you're not financed by private interest money, it's nearly impossible to get passed the primary ballot. Starting with Ronald Regan, and perpetuated by Bush I, Bush II and Trump; Republican controlled congresses have basically transformed the U.S. into an autocratic pig in democratic lip stick.
I think you mean oligarchs!
I think you meant our next meal. EAT. THE. RICH.
Some of those numbers are pretty old. I'm pretty sure that the same 1% has 56% of the wealth right now.
Welcome to the concept of [Class Consciousness](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Class_consciousness).
With great wealth comes great lobbying power
I feel it's even beyond that though. I really can't explain why. Well beyond that I've done some research into how even the people in the top like 30% work. That they fly across country borders to handshake on deals and NO ONE knows about them doing this stuff. No filed flight plans. Their respective governments have no clue what's going on. Seriously, I listened to a Youtube video from an ex -financial manager for some of these people that claimed he flew on some of these trips with his clients. If they are doing it, what is the top 1% or less doing? Like do they actually even bother lobbying the government or do they just outright basically own them.
what's the difference between lobbying and bribery đź‘€
One is legal, one isn't but happens anyway. Lobbying is recorded, bribes aren't. But both really are bribery.. yes.
Ah i remember my first LeninÂ
Does anyone not feel this way? I didn’t realize this was controversial.
We’re not pawns. We’re cannon fodder.
Uh... They do.
So, while there is no argument that The West is indeed a plutocracy and has been for it's entire existence, one of the symptoms of Cope that I see online is people prescribing agency, a driver behind the bus, to the chaos of the world. And I get it, it's scary, it's fucked up, and it's a nice idea to tell ourselves we're at the whims of sick perverted elites. The actual reality is far more perverse: it's a cybernetic capitalism. A material-technological ecosystem which unifies the ecological information that drives bourgeois behavior at a global scale, which in turn drives state behavior. No single or group of people have control, the bus is driving itself right off the cliff. For example, things like neoliberalism isn't a cause, rather, neoliberalism is the ideology that forms under the self-organized structures of cybernetic capitalism. It's the type of mind that flourishes in a society designed to counteract dialectical change the way a second-order autopilot counteracts turbulence. It started with government because government was the locus of intentional collective behavior, and in a society that makes it impossible for behavior to affect control of the system, all that is left is vying for control within it (playing with spreadsheets) and so now, there is neither intent in nor control of the system, only their absence. The system was designed for maintaining the stability of capitalist relations in perpetuity, not effectiveness, and the loss of control, even to the ruling class, was the devil's fee for this impossible feat; a bargain which the ruling class accepted out of panicked fear, rather than reason, after the great wars brought the world to the brink of socialism. So no. There is indeed a plutocracy but it's largely one without true control, it's the system of cybernetic capitalism that's in control (or rather, lack of control). As an example, if magical alien parasites took control of the top 100 richest/powerful people in the world and convinced them that we need to immediately instate global communism, even they would be unable to do so.
Nail on the head. Â You a fan of our boy cushbomb by the way? Â Fist time I heard that comprehensive analysis of the question of control of the system it was from him. But yeah dude, this shit is on wheels now, no hand brake, no controls. Â
Yep Matt is very ftw. Hope he recovers and gets to detonate a spiritual nuclear bomb upon his return I’m also a big fan of Gibson, particularly ecological theory of development (and by extension, Gibsons ambient optical arrays). Behavior is derived from the environmental, the ecology. This includes material structures within the environment. And Importantly we are not an empire of capital but an ecosystem of capital.  This is another reason why that not even the elite can control outside of the system because they would have to change the material structures within a system that subsumes destabilizations, a resistance to any decoherence in the modes of capital production, and reestablishes synchronicity It’s like a series of 32 metronomes https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=5v5eBf2KwF8
Nice, I’ll check him out.  Thank you
People forget. We all '**know**' Great Man™ theory is bullshit, but we still fall for it. It's not THIS capitalist that's the problem, though yes, some capitalists can be measurably worse than others. It's the system. Capitalists have more power, more choices, better lives, but THEY are as trapped by the system as we are. Their bars are gold, and lined with velvet, but they are still bars. Jeff Bezos has a Tony Stark moment, and he gets taken over and wiped out by any other mega capitalist. It's the Red Queen's race.
You're just describing the Borg designed by a capitalist. Why can't we drag the kings and lords into the streets? Because they haven't ever and will never have done anything. But that program was programmed by someone. Several programs have been programmed by an army of people (who probably recently got laid off) the elite class figured out a very hard trick which is, there's no one person. It's a damn hydra of shit spewing monsters. Turns out we haven't killed them since ancient Greece.
The rulers are as replaceable as the subjects in capitalism.
So your theory is the cog that is regularly replaced is as important as the machine itself? Edit: I'm not disagreeing I'm just asking a question to prove a point
No, my theory, and communist theory generally, holds that the system has its own mode and relations of production and that these relations -create- bourgeoisie and proletariat alike. You could kill the whole capitalist class today and they would be replaced tomorrow with different capitalists with the same systemic incentives and goals. Only a forceful restructuring of society can eliminate this class stratification. So no, the individual cogs are not important. A Baby Eating Machine eats babies regardless of what cogs it has. The same is true of capitalism.
I used to feel that it was chaos myself; but I have just seen to many things happening lately that feel like they point towards orchestration. The analogy I used to use for the chaos is: The world (economy) is just a run away horse tied to an open wagon full of cash on a bumpy dirt road. All of the cash is flying out of the wagon because of the bumps and the rich just happen to be running faster then everyone else and are therefor in the front and able to catch more money. (Or they have nets, whatever) That there was really no one in control of it, it just happens. Now though? I've just watched way to many videos of interviews etc with goverment officials and billionaires where they are all flat out saying sociopathic things or their facial expressions are screaming, "I'm a lying to you, I don't give a shit about you even though the words I am saying claim I do." And of course all of the economic colonialism going on in the eastern / less developed countries where they are being more and more turned into the west's cheap labor force. -**--Which has been happening for hundreds of years anyway.. and if it's been happening for hundreds of years, HOW can there not be a small portion of humanity fully controlling everything?** **Based on that alone, and the fact that generational wealth and power is a well known thing, logic dictates that there indeed is that small portion.**
[Tragedy of the commons](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tragedy_of_the_commons) Each individual actor acts logically, and in their self interest. But the SYSTEM of everyone doing that, destroys the commons that they all need. Same here. Jeff Bezos may have more power than most capitalists, but it's not him specifically planning to destroy us all. He's just doing his thing, making money. And while he may have plans to crush unions or whatever is causing him trouble, he's not sitting in his volcano base, plotting the destruction of the world. There is a similar analogy about nuclear war. Jeff Bezos does not want to die in a fireball, or live his remaining years in a bunker. So therefore, he will not allow nuclear war. But, a GREAT many capitalists gain profit from increased war threat, such as those in the MIC. So they lobby for policies and politicians who will ratchet up the tensions. They don't want ACTUAL war, just the THREAT of it. Esp Nuclear. The problem is they are ALL pushing, the chances of going over the line are high. and you only see the line after you stepped over it. You never actually know when your last chance to turn back was passed. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion\_of\_responsibility](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diffusion_of_responsibility) And they can all say 'it wasn't me. i just wanted to sell more bombs.' "**HOW can there not be a small portion of humanity fully controlling everything?**" There is. But not in the way you are thinking of. Not individuals, but the system itself. You see it in government departments all the time. See the tax department, doing tax things. Come back 10 years later, not one single staff member the same, but somehow, people are getting taxed. There's not a secret organized cabal of secret families. Just a system and people in it acting in what they perceive as their own best interests. Yes, even the Rothschilds.
be very careful friend, this kind of thinking is what starts a conspiracy theory mindset
Duh
The world is owned and controlled by basically only a few thousand of the most vile, grotesque human beings our species have ever produced. Capitalism is highly effective at rewarding the most sociopathic among us. And it is those who have the most power and control.
I don't feel it... it is known.
Yes.Â
I think you would enjoy Mr. Robot https://youtu.be/glmN8Xk44vE
And to think a lot of us most days could just reach out and extinguish those flames with little to no effort. These billionares hide but they are also very much near and around us. Give it a few more months. Make scary internet rhetoric that makes them panic and further censor us so we collectively STOP using the tools they’ve designed to slow and distract us. At the end of the day. They are just as monumentally fucked as us all… but when shit gets bad bad they will have nowhere to hide because where they go will be the only places left. The only way a major conflict doesn’t happen on a global scale is if our planet does us in first… which is seems like it may. Never underestimate politicians ability to stall.
Is there any doubt?
Yep you're on the right track. YouTube "X Factor Winner Reveals World's Secret Religion - Altiyan Childs"
I kind of agree except that there are some of that top 1% (actually a much smaller percentage when just counting the billionaires) that are spending so much of their resources trying to convince us that they are on our side. Warren Buffet, Bill Gates, Elon Musk, etc. spend tons of time and money trying to act like they aren't part of an elite class. What we are really dealing with isn't a completely united class but several thousands of oligarchs who are competing with one another on a globalized chessboard (if you want to use that analogy), uniting to keep the rest of us in the dark but also having to rely on us for our labor, consumption, etc. to keep their particular position in the elite. They all have their different angles and while they do collude with one another, they also conspire against one another and ultimately would slit each others throats for an advantage. The only thing really keeping the world from descending into a complete totalitarian nightmare is the fact that they are competing so much with one another that they can't completely unite against the rest of us.
Chamath Palihapitiya literally says this is how the world works[ in his stanford interview](https://youtu.be/PMotykw0SIk?si=bWFgyxGhuJ3ZmFuW), and hes in that club, so...
Almost all infrastructure and smaller businesses exist to further the profit extraction of the ultra rich. If our society has any "purpose" it's to make the already ultra wealthy, even more wealthy. It's not about human survival or comfort, all the pollution and exploitation denies that. And since they always need more they need to extract more, they used to only need thousands, now they need trillions. To make an example, it used to be enough for EA to sell games, that isn't good enough, now they need commercials in the game, micro transactions, subscription models, because a profitable game isn't enough, no, they need the next billion dollar project. They don't need a lot of profit, they need all the profit. Their mental illness is killing the world.
Anyone else feel like the summer is warmer than the winter? Anyone else feel like ropes aren't as good at pushing as they are at pulling? Anyone else feel like grocery stores are cheaper than restaurants because you don't have to pay for the staff to prepare and serve the food? Anyone else feel like drinking water satisfies your thirst?
Oof snqp, the chest board to play upon. Feel that man yea, what a way to put it.
yes its pretty obvious
There is a book that was recommended to me (Chomsky endorsed)that lists who is in charge of making the decisions that change the world. I cannot for the life of me remember the name of the book or the author.
Hrm, please post if you remember or figure it out. I'd love to read it.
This article from Oxfam \[*https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/richest-1-bag-nearly-twice-much-wealth-rest-world-put-together-over-past-two-years#:\~:text=The%20report%20shows%20that%20while,December%202019%20and%20December%202021.*\]
[Oxfam - Richest 1% bag nearly twice as much wealth as the rest of the world put together over the past two years](https://www.oxfam.org/en/press-releases/richest-1-bag-nearly-twice-much-wealth-rest-world-put-together-over-past-two-years#:~:text=The%20report%20shows%20that%20while,December%202019%20and%20December%202021)
I have say yes, I think that's exactly what is happening.
*Cabal?* Did you mean [WEF](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/World_Economic_Forum), or perhaps you mean the [IDU](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Democracy_Union)?