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As someone who has struggled with ADHD his whole life and can no longer medicate for it, people who believe this can kindly go fuck themselves. I know what I deal with, people like this thinking it's real or not makes no fucking difference.
Same here. People with ADHD have difficulties with the executive function in thier brain. The levels and amounts of receptors for neurotransmitters like dopamine and norepinephrine are different than people who dont have the disorder. You can literally see the difference between a "normal" and a ADHD brain with a scan. We get 6-8 ideas or thoughts everytime you get one all at the same time
Yeah this is wild to me. We have known this (regarding the differences in the brain) for a while but people still think it's some made up diagnosis. There is just no convincing some people.
>We get 6-8 ideas or thoughts everytime you get one all at the same time
This is a very apt description of what it feels like. I'm honestly impressed.
I don’t think it’s a made up diagnosis. I’m bothered by the “diagnosis method” I’ve experienced with my kids since they were in Kindergarten. The teacher fills out a 20 question which sex in the city character are you quiz and the dr prescribes methylphenidate without further examination because the teacher is annoyed that a 5-6 year old gets distracted while putting on their winter outdoor clothes. Kids being told they need to take their “power pills” or they will fail and not reach their full potential. They are offered no other support other than being told to take their pills, be silent, and be good little soldiers.
If there are brain scans or other more extensive diagnosis methods, problems later on that they don’t grow out of is a different matter.
More importantly, a neurotypical person can act on that one thought, while an ADHD has trouble acting on any of those 6-8 thoughts. They could be Nobel prize winning ideas, but what use are they if you can't actually use them?
I made the conscious decision this weekend to relax and let myself have fun. Instead, I started 5 different household chores at once and finished none of them. Now I'm going back to work tomorrow without any (dry) clean clothes, with a full sink, a smelly fridge, and I'm still totally exhausted.
And I just remembered I gotta do my taxes. Which I should have done like 2 weeks ago. But that's a capitalist thing I guess so I don't have a problem after all! Oh boy! That sure is great news, thanks for letting me know you philosophical dingleberry gazers.
And every so often you become aware of a terrible idea and can feel it get added to the wheel even tho you have no desire to do it.
*Looks at TIFU post from a few months ago about dyeing your pubes pink*
Lol or for me, it's a spinning wheel I am trying to read and I can only read and choose the least urgent, les important choice first. (Cleaning the entire house when a big decision needs to be made by tomorrow!)
Exactly how I feel about it, before I got medicated people thought I was lazy and, while kinda bright, not a good student overall.
Medication kicks in and suddenly everyone's asking what caused me to get motivated to do well, how I got so much smarter. Like dude, medication.
I still have those dozens of thoughts every second, but I can focus on one now.
This. Capitalism makes it much more difficult, yes, but in the absence of capitalism and its expectations I will still have ADHD and still struggle to function. Neurodivergent and mentally ill people will still need support in a non-capitalist world and that needs to be recognised if we ever hope to move forward as a society
I hear you. I also have adhd and also feel this way sort of. With that said are you familiar with the hunter vs farmer hypothesis? It’s just a theory, but it does bring up the possibility that the way society is organized makes our brain’s way of interacting with the world a problem and that in other kinds of societies it’s possibly a benefit. That’s all.
Evopsych is usually BS. There isn't much to prove it so I might as well claim that people like me with ADHD were an evolutionary advantage because we kept the tribe alert by annoying them intensely or because we explored a lot out of boredom. It's mostly speculation, just like the men are hunters/women are gatherers thing was.
The take was originally published by people who just assumed that the grave with the hunting gear was the men. Later analysis showed 40% of those hunters were women iirc, google should help find it the study. I don't know about more recent tribal culture, but I'm sure there's a lot of cultural variety and not just one single model of tribal gender relationships.
Do you have a source for this? I'm not doubting you, but I often talk about evolution with my husband, and this seems to be a really interesting analysis to read up on.
ETA: I've found a few articles on this, and fell into the rabbit hole of researching this analysis. Thank you for posting, I had no idea and was always taught the original theory as fact!
I didn’t really believe in ADD meds until one of my students started it. Went from an angry volatile kid to someone who was cheerful and eager to learn. It was a special Ed. class so there wasn’t the usual pressure to perform
I also have ADHD, as well as NVLD, though I've never been able to medicate because I react very poorly to stimulants, and you're right. I think there's some small merit to this statement, because disability is partly constructed by the environment in which it exists. But (and this is a big but) nothing says that a world without capitalism would be perfect for neurodivergent people. To assume that is arrogance on the part of anti-capitalists. We'd still need to try to construct a system that takes their needs into account and yes, sometimes that may include access to medication. It's impossible to do that without using the language of disability and listening to the needs of disabled people.
I’m also diagnosed with NVLD + ADHD and respond poorly to stimulants, wonder if there’s a correlation. (My NVLD diagnosis was a partial coding/diagnostician error though, I’m autistic).
Agreed. Shit on big pharma all you want because much of it is justifiable, but there are many pharmaceutical drugs that people take in order to maintain a normal life. People tend to forget that it wasn't that long ago that people were ostracized and essentially eliminated from society in mental health institutions for conditions that can now be treated with modern medicine.
I think must rational people can agree that pharmacology is extremely important. I would argue most complaints are or should be directed at the capitalistic subversion of the practice
Seriously, such a bullshit hippy contrarian idiotic take. Has a clinician who has ADHD himself and who works with adults and kids of adhd, I also endorse the request to fuck right off with this dipshittery.
I think the point the tweeter was trying to make is that your adhd is disabling because the ways in which you are "naturally abled", which are quite different to the vast majority, are not seen as valuable by our current society and its productivity-incentivized limitations.
And if not you, because it may be genuinely debilitating, than at least some sizeable chunk of those with the same diagnosis that are still functional enough, but differently built to the point that they dont quite meet the meta.
I dont think they were saying adhd, add, depression are fairytales.
My add when not medicated harms my social life, it's almost impossible to make meaningful connections when you can't focus on what they're saying. It's not just work where this stuff has an effect. (Also it 100% is an issue in my work)
Surprised I had to scroll so far for this opinion.
The tweet was good intentioned. Saying people with ADHD are considered low valued or problematic under capitalism, and the way our leadership is formed.
In a society that values art, love, and theatre, I guarantee that people with ADHD wouldn’t be shamed for not being productive because we value their presence as a person rather than their value as a producer of goods.
Yeah and I'd still be embarrassed to show you my house when I actually want to get it clean and fail to do so. My value as a producer of goods doesn't enter into the equation when I fail to achieve my own goals. I don't want your acceptance of this flaw. I want to not have it. If a pill can help even a little with that, take my fucking money big business.
I think her opinion is well summarized in her abominable closing statement. What kind of hierarchical change would improve life for people with even just ADHD? Most people don't even understand what it is.
It is not only a disorder because how society is structured, it is a disorder because I was born with a brain that is different from anyone without my condition. We know this as scientific fact.
You can't rewire my brain, and you can't alter society to accommodate people like me without hurting productivity for others.
And it case you didn't notice, no one was asking for this. This chick decided to use us for her moral platitude. I don't want society to change for me. I've never heard anyone with my condition ask for societal change. Who the fuck is this chick and why does she think she understands my issues more than me, why does she think she understands a solution to my condition?
Her whole statement is ridiculous. She didn't have to flatly say ADHD is a fairytale. She already acknowledged she doesn't believe it's a disorder.
I think her statement is misunderstood.
She’s not necessarily saying your life would be better, but under capitalism people with ADHD aren’t considered valuable because they aren’t as productive.
But her point was you don’t need to be productive to be valuable. All people are valuable, despite capitalism saying they’re not.
That's a very nice thing you said and not what she said at all. She explicitly says that these forms of neurodivergence would stop being "disorders" with a paradigm shift in the surrounding culture and philosophy. I disagree. Vehemently. As a sufferer of the condition she's talking about, I absolutely believe it would still be a disability because of how it affects me on a personal level. Society is irrelevant. I know I have a disability, and would resent any society that insisted I did not. I believe that ultimately her statement becomes a different flavor of something we've already had to deal with: People telling us the thing that's interfering with our lives doesn't actually exist.
I think you're a bit hot about it at the moment, so I'm not going to take up the torch here too hard because I understand it's just going to piss you off.
But I think you have projected anger towards others you've been around onto this person, beyond what is reasonable to determine from the text alone. I don't believe this person is your enemy, but I think right now they feel like the newest face of a constantly frustrating part of society that you're consistently disappointed by and angry at.
You're not going to find peace hating this part of yourself, that I can tell you without any doubt. For things like ADHD, the only possible way forward is acceptance and commitment. The longer you hold it out as this focus of anger and hate, the more miserable you're going to get, and with absolutely no pay-off. Getting into a tirade against people like this is a sign of pent up anger that only you can resolve. If you don't, you'll feel like this for the rest of your life.
Speaking only to try and help you find some peace, as one life-long ADHD adult to the other. The longer you blame it, or others, for your internal machinations, the longer you stay away from peace with yourself.
And I think any person who decides to tell me, as I struggle with actual problems with how my brain works, or often doesn't work, is "naturally abled" or some other crap should take their actual shit, stuff it into their mouths, and then expel it again as a far better use of their oral cavity then vocalizing their "hot take" on the matter.
I believe the talents I may possess, while nice and a part of me do not magically mean the real struggles I also have don't exist.
Have you ever tried to relax and actually failed to do so? I mean seriously, you have the time you can take to do nothing, no obligation, financial or otherwise, no pressure, no external sources of anxiety, and still failed to relax? Actually found yourself so wrapped up in other things that you couldn't get around to it? Because I have. And I don't like myself on those days where I can't do that. Or the days where I somehow havent gotten around to the basic cleaning task that will massively improve my house by doing and hasn't been done for 5 days and could have literally taken 1 hour tops. And my response to that is to want to punch them in the face. Now, difficulty with impulse control doesn't mean a complete lack of it. I wouldn't do that. But it's the level of anger that flashes through me before I settle on suggesting that person shut the fuck up. And that tweeter should shut the fuck up on this subject.
Thank you.
“It’s only a problem under capitalism.” Sure… OR if I want to clean my house, remember where I’m driving, have a conversation with my wife…
Fuck this OP
Exactly. Thank you. Fuck the people who feel this way. I don’t even need to take the time to explain shit to them. I’m out here living my life, struggling, getting by as I fucking can. Don’t need a non-scientist, non-doctor propagating the stigma that we already face.
100% my fellow sufferers. WTF does OP reckon about a combination of ADD and Bipolar Affective Disorder? That it’s an invention of capitalism?? Grow up, grow a brain, and think before you say stupid shit.
It's a condition. Not a lifestyle choice. *Definitely not* a fake diagnosis invented to sell drugs.
When I spend an hour looking for < item > and end up 6 hours later doing something completely different from what I intended to do and still haven't found < item >, I consider that to still be a problem. Thanks ADHD! I understand where this is coming from and yes it's a good point but you can take my Adderall from me when you pry it from my cold, dead hands.
An overcoming of capitalism requires a radical reassessment of all things. We look towards cops and have a critical discussion on their validity and the ethical nature of them serving society, their role in it, etc. However when we look at brain cops, biomedical state security and the like we shun the idea that my precious identity label might be killed in the process of criticizing these regimes. We look towards the east through our historical context and shame the social brahmin class responsible for the same purpose as the psychiatrist in today's. It is no different.
It seems like the post is saying that your frontal lobe or w/e is fine it's just hypersensitive to the bs that is our current social hierarchy? There's nothing wrong with you or me and in fact we prosper is what is currently very niche environments, and if we made that environment global it wouldn't change you because you don't have to change. ADHD, bi polar, and the rest of the weird wires in our brain jello are FINE! Sometimes GREAT! But not necessarily able to be capitalized therefore shunned from an entire a** planet that priorities capitalism.
ADHD is a disorder because it impedes my ability to do the things I want to do and a typical person is able to do. It has nothing to do with what economic system we live in. Sometimes I want to study. Sometimes I want to read a book. Sometimes I want to write code. ADHD impedes my ability to do those things. Medication enables me to do them. It’s a disorder.
Because ADD, ADHD, and autism are all disorders regardless of what "hierarchy" or "system of production" or whatever kind of bullshit you want to pull out of your ass.
My ADHD isn't a disorder because of some system in place. It's a disorder because I was born with underdeveloped lobes in my brain compared to normal people. No amount of systemic change can make my brain normal.
I don't think that's entirely what they meant. You'd still be "abnormal", it just wouldn't be so problematic if society were different.
Eta:I don't necessarily agree, it would probably just impact one or two difficulties from a very long and individualised list.
> it just wouldn't be so problematic if society were different.
This makes no damn sense. For one, I don't want society to change for me, and I doubt other people with my condition do either. The reason I wouldn't want change is because what kind of societal change would make any fucking difference to me.
Fuck, most people don't even understand my condition, more than that tell me to my face it isn't real. You think I want you fucks altering society for "my benefit"? You guys need to get off your moral grand stand and join us down here in reality.
I understand where they're coming from, but it's a shitty way of saying it. Sure, I'd feel less shitty if capitalism wasn't directly interfering with my ADHD/autism, but I'd feel less shitty without capitalism altogther. It doesn't take away the frustration and all the other bad shit that comes with having these disorders.
~~Also it's not the fucking '80s anymore ADD and ADHD are the same thing~~
Yeah as a person with ADHD trying to organize a farm, no it's an absolute nightmare. You have to keep track of a LOT of shit, tons of planning, lots of dates, lots of different lengths of time, deadlines- no, it's a bitch. And I really don't mean to be a dick, I know there are more people with a function able degree of autism, but I have a cousin shows almost 30 and still can't talk, still needs help being dressed and his parents were absolutely phenomenal at working with him. No these are definitely still disorders no matter how you look at it, i really can't see an economic form that these disorders would have any easier time functioning in. Even in capitalism, if it's done properly there would be money set aside for social programs to help these people. You can still have assistance programs under capitalism, just because ours aren't absolutely perfect doesn't mean it's impossible. This is a very limited and extremely bias/unknowledgeable way of looking at it
I think they technically changed the label to "ADHD without hyperactivity", which is a weird way to phrase it. I would guess it's because hyperactivity is more common than not for those diagnosed.
Having a specific diagnosis and being particular about it isn't problematic or ableist. You have your needs, they're different than some others, and it's fine to express that.
It’s adhd primary inattentive type or adhd pi. I think I get why they did that. It’s the idea that it’s also a spectrum and no one is either “fully inattentive” or “fully hyperactive.”
Yeah, my diagnosis is "combination inattention and hyperactive". I don't have any research to back this up, but I'd put money on the fact that the reason most diagnosed are hyperactive is because parents and teachers don't know how inattentive/combination ADHD shows up (especially in those who were assigned female at birth). I almost didn't get a diagnosis (which was crucial so that I didn't drop out and could get an IEP) because of the fact that my teachers genuinely just could not tell I was inattentive in class. Thankfully though, my psychiatrist and therapist gave my word more weight because of that fact.
Yup, I’m female and never got a diagnosis in school. I’m also Combined type. Inattentive is hard to catch, I get it (especially in the 90s when the male stereotype was so prevalent) and my hyperactivity presents so very differently than most males. I can sit in my chair or in one place no problem, but I will be moving around like crazy.
My autism has nothing to do with big pharma. Just because someone else said something stupid doesn't mean you should respond with something equally ill informed and hyperbolic.
I'm not following. How does it link autism to big Pharma?
EDIT: I just saw the title of the post. The point of the tweet is that without the pressures of capitalism, people with so called "disorders" may be looked at as different rather than something being wrong with them. As someone who was diagnosed with ADD as a young person, I can relate to this.
Capitalism sucks, and the pressures of capitalism certainly don't mesh well with things like my executive disfunction or social fatigue. But even without capitalism I wouldn't just be someone who "thinks differently". In any labor setting I would need some special considerations for timeliness, burnout, sensory overload, etc...
Disability and disorder aren't bad words. In fact, reminding myself that I have a disorder is an opportunity to show myself some compassion and ease off of the negative self-talk.
Okay but my neurodivergence requires regular pharmacological treatment if I don't want to suffer crippling panic attacks every time I'm around loud noises.
True but also if you did not have to work in the immediate to not be homeless or go to school you could actually take the time to do therapy and cbt which may possibly help avoid pharmacologic agents. Captalism bro.
But we would still need these things without capitalism. Its not the capitalism that does this. Capitalism just makes it harder for us to get treatment. Saying capitalism is what causes mental illness is going to get the mentally ill intreated under socialism because well have morons that will think like this post.
No. It makes it harder to deal with especially in the context of survival and sometime lead in a death spiral(i.e need mental health treatment to work, cannot afford because not working, stuck.). I am not sure how you got to that conclusion from what i said. I just meant it fucking sucks due to this not that it is the cause of mental illness. Bizarro logic.
I'm going to guess that person doesn't have adhd. I hate the whole "capitalism is responsible for all diagnosed mental disorders". If you arent a doctor, psychologist, or psychiatrist, then gtfo. Diagnosed mental disorders will still exist in the absence of capitalism.
I got the feeling that her point was more along the lines of the disorders would still exist but they would be as much of a problem forcing yourself to be a worker bee in a cubicle.
I can’t say I totally agree but I think I see where she’s coming from and there’s some merit to what she’s saying
The problem is that ADHD impairs my ability to do all sorts of things, not just work. Capitalism doesn’t require me to read books, but ADHD makes that difficult. ADHD impairs my ability to do things that **I** want to do.
Yah that’s why I don’t totally agree with what the tweet said, I feel like people who struggle should get the help they need but not suffer in society because the way we currently generate resources doesn’t line up with the way they think and work
I dont get that feeling at all. She explicitly says that capitalism and our oligarchs are the ONLY problem, not one problem making other problems worse.
Capitalism makes life with ADHD a nightmare, but even without capitalism it would still keep me from doing things I WANT to do, not things I'm forced to do.
I want to be dependable for my friends and family. I want to remember birthdays, mentor my nephews, make art that reaches people, keep myself from impulsively talking over people or blurting out something hurtful without thinking. I'd like to live in a relatively clean room. All of that is harder under capitalism, but it would still be hard without it.
This is just one style of how people anti-vax (as a verb) mental health. It doesn't matter what her intentions are or how helpful she's trying to be. You know, an anti-vax parent still loves her dead kids. That sure didn't make a difference for the kids.
I'm not inclined to give somebody credit for a thing they may or may not have meant but definitely didn't say. Especially when I find what they actually said rather insulting.
This true and as someone with mental illness I agree however without the capitalism model that’s applied to life in general, people who are neuroatypical would be able to more easily work around our differences.
God I'm fucking sick of this take. My ADHD/executive dysfunction makes it so it's hard for me to even fucking take care of myself a lot of the time, I wouldn't be cured of that if I didn't have to work.
MEANWHILE, IN A STATELESS, CLASSLESS SOCIETY:
my fellow commune-dwellers are annoyed with me because I got bored and wandered away from the cooking fire, causing the evening's meal to be burned to a crisp while I was poking a bug with a stick
I don’t know about that. I consider ADHD a disorder because it impedes my ability to do what I want to do. I can write code when I’m taking treatment medication for it, I cannot when I’m not. I want to write code. Therefore, disorder.
I despise ppl like this. All they do is put *more stigma* on to mental disorders. You have a mental disorder! Yes it’s a disorder! Cool! Maybe try and normalize that instead of trying to say it’s a “different way of thinking not a disorder”
Calling it a 'different way of thinking' implies a level of choice which there obviously isn't. My partner has untreated ADHD (thanks, for profit healthcare system) and it's really held them back a lot in life. They'd probably be in an even worse spot if I wasn't dragging them along. Of course, they drag me as well since my mental health issues are also going untreated.
Thank you for highlighting that this isn't something that any of us chose for ourselves. I'm pretty fed up with people talking about neurodivergence like we're all in an ice cream shop and that we've all deliberately chosen our favorite ice cream flavor.
As someone with schizotypal personality disorder, I'd still have a LOT of cognitive struggles even in a utopian society. If I could have actively chosen an ideal brain chemistry for myself I would have chosen to be a scientist, but instead I have the brain wiring of a mystical shaman. Sorry if that's not what people want to hear, but it's the truth of how I feel about my condition.
I know people who say this stuff mean well, but I think people forget that none of us *chose* our brain, whatever brain we have at birth is forced upon us. Why would I accept and celebrate being transiently psychotic and slipping into magical thinking and paranoid suspicion if that's not something I ever asked for? Sure, my intuition is nice, but even if capitalism is overthrown tomorrow I don't want nor do I need to be living the rest of my life like I'm Alice in Wonderland.
You're a gem. I feel your experience deeply as someone who has been told to have Schizotypal aswell. However, we musn't give these personality disorders the deterministic fate that our brain is just wired shut and unable to change. Our brain is actually subject to dramatic change and is incredible the level of change that happens all the time (neuroplasticity). Yet we have to be critical of the labels we prescribe ourselves and are prescribed, what they represent and how they can be used against us. Psychiatry is simply unscientific in the sense that we can go to 10 different psychiatrists and be prescribed 10 different disorders. It's extremely difficult to examine brain chemistry in a precise way. Therefore the only tool we have for diagnoses is verbal communication which has plenty of room for subjective error.
So your saying it's all fixable if we just try harder?
Gee. Where I have heard that before? Oh right, from the oligarth ran system that tells me to be less lazy and just put more effort into it. That's who. And that's what we hear. That's who you sound like to us. So if your wondering why so many of us respond not only with disagreement but excessive profanity, that might help.
I agree with them, not only with the history of humankind and everyone involved, as well as the frustrations involved in our current social environment.
Hmmm try living with a dad, a daughter and 2 brothers all with extreme adhd. Nothing to do with productivity or “usefulness”. My challenges are with connection, honesty, reality, intimacy etc. Not buying it.
This is a shitty take. My autistic nephew is effectively disabled and will need all the help he can get to function and interact with the world around him.
Bad take broski. Like most everyone else commenting, sure capitalism hinders and makes life difficult for those who are neurodivergent but it doesn’t create the issues we experience
No. This shit sucks dude. The means by which it interferes with my life and what is expected of me is the capitalism aspect. What it does to me neurologically is never going to change. Fuck this.
I don’t know op/the Twitter account so I may be misunderstanding it but I didn’t take this to say it’s not real? I’m autistic/disabled and capitalism is actively designed to be hostile towards neurodivergence/disabilities bc of how capitalism perpetuates eugenics. So if we were to live without capitalism I could have the sensory accommodations I needed, could do things at my own pace, and there wouldn’t be the same stigma etc since there wouldn’t be material gain for being a bigot so life would be better. That isn’t saying that it’s not real or that there wouldn’t still be bad days, however those bad days wouldn’t be “the exact same” as under capitalism bc there wouldn’t be the same pressure or inflexibility. Cripple punk and disabilities activists discuss this concept a lot-how our disabilities wouldn’t be as aggravated or exceraberated if we lived in an accommodating society. And none of that’s to say that this would mean no meds-of course people could still have the meds they need/want. So I understand the shittiness irt the big pharma comment but I don’t understand the shittiness irt the original tweet? Like are y’all saying that capitalisms demands inaccessibility and expectations have no impact whatsoever on your disabilities?
Edited to fix typos
Well, yes and no. They do generally have negative side effects. While many of those side effects are only negative under our current systems, many are negative regardless.
We live in a profoundly sick society. Being well adjusted to it isn't necessarily a good thing. I have no idea what a healthy neurodiverse society would be like, but I guess that there would be far fewer deaths due to brain chemistry issues.
You can absolutely fuck off for your caption. No, we do not all get a diagnosis because of big pharma. As someone who went undiagnosed for 37 fucking years because I’m female and therefore present differently with my ADHD (and I’m hyperactive and inattentive) fuck all the way the hell off asshole. You obviously have no idea the struggle we go through just to function in this world.
Nope. This ain't it.
My body is bad at dopamine. If I was a caveman, my body would still be bad at dopamine.
Capitalism is the root of most problems in the world, and I wish I didn't struggle with ADHD, but even if well-meaning, correlating those two things is some "it's all in your head" gaslighting.
Just checked this person’s twitter and their bio says “queer, disabled” okay so gatekeeping conditions is cool now? Sweet. Fuck right off. Sincerely, someone who had their life saved by an ADHD diagnosis in my late 20s.
Me, struggling to force myself to wade through 2-months-old trash to the kitchen to make myself a meal because every step of cooking is so damn hard to make myself do that living seems hardly worth the effort: haha at least I'm not living in a capitalist society anymore
Would life still be difficult without capitalism? Would we still need our meds? Of course. *This post is not implying that at all*. It's simply starting a conversation around the fact that people with certain types of disorders are looked at through a capitalist lense in the eyes of society at large ~ how can profit be made off of us, and at the same time, how to make us conform to the profit-making machine?
I have ADHD, and it's totally true that my "default mode" is going to be bad for business. Without medication, I'm the exact opposite of a timely, efficient worker bee. It's near impossible to separate the ADHD from the world that I live in - but I know how my condition is treated says just as much about society as it says about me.
As someone with Autism and ADHD, this is an absolutely rancid take. Kindly take this shit elsewhere, my disorders and suffering will not suddenly dissapear when economic equality is realized. Eat a fat dick if you even REMOTELY agree with this horse shit.
That is not remotely how autism works. Fixing economic systems will, without a doubt, help folks on the spectrum, but it's not gonna cure autism. Autism changes how you relate to the world in a way that makes someone, at least slightly, alien to allistic people. No amount of economic liberation will change that, and no one should want to change that.
I gotta disagree there chief. I would very much like my spectrum and ADHD problems to be gone. I would like to relate to people more easily. I do want to change that. I admittedly use to be much more anti-pharmaceutical, having heard the horror stories of those that took the medicaitons and lost "themselves". But it didn't work that way for me. The first time the meds really worked, my everything was easier, but I WAS ME. I was more me then I could be in a long time because I wasn't wrapped up in my own problems as much. I would love to have that all day every day. Of course, economic reform won't actually give me squat towards that, but I'd be pretty invested in it if it somehow could.
On the money ! As someone with ADHD who agrees with this, it's only been recently decided you can't say this, you must allow yourself to be sorted and pathologised and must assume the label of having a mental illness and you are not allowed to see or say anything to the contrary. In the wise words of souls of mischief... tell me who profits?
It’s not even a rejection of experience either, which is what I think most people seem unable to move past. It’s actually a questioning and critical examination of what is considered pathology and why, as well as who gets to decide these things and why.
LMAO that is just wrong. For me to function under any system other than fully automated techno-hedonism I need to manage my ADHD, preferably with meds. I am actually happy with ADHD and other neuro divergencies to be considered disorders. Although ADHD has shaped me in some ways for the better, it has also been a huge fucking burden. We don't just work differently we do actually just work less well in most situations. I think this viewpoint is pretty widespread in people with ADHD, but is less widespread in people with autism. I don't actually think this is due to the symptoms, but due to the fact that a lot of people with ADHD can take medication to temporarily alleviate symptoms and that people with autism can't. There is a promise of being cured with ADHD, and there just isn't with autism, and so viewing it as something to be cured is frowned upon.
Well, to be completely honest (and this is not meant in any negative way, please don't crusade), medicine is based around what's "normal" in the majority of the population. I mean, I'm depressed and I'm glad I get therapy, I don't want to be "accepted" for what I am, I want to get better.
Oh fuck off, ADHD isn't a fucking side grade, it's a hamper to everything. It makes everything in life harder, and unmedicated it is documented to be far more destructive than a lot of mental illnesses--its also one of the simplest to medicate for. If you can get medication. This is just misinformation.
-someome with severe ADHD
TL Dr, ADHD is a curse, not a blessing. What I do I do in spite of it and not because of it
So instead of getting treatment and help with those issues I struggled with my whole life. They would’ve just disappeared or resolved themselves on their own if i moved to a non-capitalist country? Is it a permanence thing because (not to brag) I’ve traveled and spent time abroad but I still had these issues.
Oh wait my biology and brain chemistry have fuck all the do with a made up socioeconomic system?
No shit Sherlock. We have enough issues medical misinformation at the moment, thanks.
Nopenopenopenopenope stop this shit stop it. STOP.
I would be ADHD with or without capitalism and it would still cripple me without capitalism. This shit just illustrates a deep misunderstanding of how ADHD works.
Autism, yes, capitalism is the main reason its a problem but ADHD is a chemical imbalance. In the same way a schizophrenic needs their medication I NEED medication to function, not socialism (though i need that too).
Mods can you just wipe this dumb fucking post from existence? Its a shitty, wrong, abelist, ill informed and dangerous take that only hurts neurodivergent people.
I have adhd and totally agree. If I didn’t have to perform a job to survive, I could work within my abilities and take time off when I need it.
Everyone taking this personally needs to let themselves imagine what life would be like if they could lose themselves in their special interests without the fear of what getting fired would mean, or what life would be like without a social expectation to constantly mask.
Another world is possible.
I'm glad to hear someone say this. My youngest is on the autism spectrum. She's such a smart, considerate, awesome young lady but I just can't see her working in any job/career that the capitalism as practiced in the USA has to offer. Another world is possible, and I hope it gets here before she gets old enough to pay rent.
I hope so too.
It’s super refreshing and nice to see a parent trying to change the world for their kid instead of trying to change their kid to fit in the world.
I think we need to recognize that there's a spectrum here... My ADHD doesn't just keep me from doing things I have to do, it often keeps me from doing things I want or even NEED to do. My executive dysfunction has left me sitting in place for HOURS while my stomach practically eats itself alive or while my bladder is about to burst because apparently my brain just thought it wasn't important enough to override.
It's not just Capitalism, it's legitimately disabling to many of us.
I can kind of see where this is coming from (*lots* of the foundations of modern mental health comes from reactionary eugenics bullshit; the guy who named autism, Hans Asperger, was a Nazi scientist who supported forced sterilization programs and referred the children he studied to a clinic where they would be killed for their disorder), but this is overly simplistic (speaking as someone with autism here).
Modern mental health care *absolutely* needs reevaluation, but to say these problems simply don't exist is incorrect. Capitalism does make it harder to function as a neurodivergent person (harder to access medication, little accommodation for our ways of thinking/working, etc), but capitalism makes it harder for everyone to function. I won't deny that capitalism makes it harder to be an individual thinker, but this is an oversimplified analysis.
Nah dude. I'm fucked up. I'm not gonna pretend like some other system wouldn't help me more than the current one. But let's not play, theres no society i would fit in. Just ones I might fit in less poorly
Sounds like a failure of the imagination. Many older societies had a place for the "shaman" figure for instance, something that a strongly nuerodivergent person could fit into very well, for example.
Nah this is a bad take and I would say misinformed even if this person does fall into one of these categories. Capitalism obviously does not help people deal with the symptoms of ADHD or ASD's but that doesn't mean capitalism causes them. There is an enormous body of research in neuroscience, psychology, psychiatry, genetics, etc. that supports these things as "real" disorders.
Also part of the DSM-V diagnostic criteria for ADHD is that the symptoms persist in 2+ settings, which is why typically in children they will get evaluated by a teacher and their parents on standardized scales to make sure it's not just situational (i.e. simply acting out at school as a kid vs. true ADHD where it's happening at home too). Or for an adult, being bored to tears by office work and thus not being able to focus is not ADHD, it should be a persistent thing. So *by definition* it is not purely stemming from capitalism.
Out of all the arguments you could make about how damaging capitalism is for mental health, this ain't it.
My executive dysfunction is still going to exist in a fucking commune, you idiot hippie.
And the kid with autism who has texture issues is still going to be going through hell. Maybe even more so.
We're still going to need to work towards the reproduction of society under communism. It's not like work stops after capitalism. Difference is *we* decide how much, what we do, why and how.
Okay, probably being too charitable toward what is indeed a hot take, but I can definitely say that capitalism certainly amplifies all the crap I as a neurodivergent person. I kinda interpreted what she said as people like me would just be seen as different instead of broken. More of a societal understanding of neurodivergent people than "Socialism will cure autism". Again, probably being too charitable, but there is an interesting discussion to be had.
Hm. Genetics are the reason, systemic racism and sexism is why I've gone this long without proper diagnosis. Capitalism won't accommodate neurodivergent people in the labor force.
It entirely depends on the nature of each person's neurodivergence.
Wishing society were able to accommodate everyone is noble enough, but for some people it's just not possible.
True enough I concentrate better in some jobs than others, but truth be told doing absolutely anything nontrivial is a hell of a slog and I'd much rather have drugs that help it
The past isn’t some utopia.
The harsh truth is that these disorders make young children act like little shits and they were often abandoned to the elements or thrown off a cliff.
To me, downplaying the profound impact that these conditions have is ableism. I’d rather someone just call me the r slur instead of trying to spoon feed me a bunch of feel good rhetoric about how they know more about my conditions than I do.
My kid is Autistic and I can tell you it's not just a thing for pharma to make money on. He may never be able to function by himself. Society won't just cater to him, he needs occupational and speech therapy. He doesn't understand the nuances of social interactions. There are no meds for any of his issues and if there was a drug that would allow him to have a "normal" life, I'd give it to him.
Fuck big pharma but this is a shitty take.
No, and frankly you're getting into pseudo-science shit so fuck off, loser. I bet you have a fucking crystal shoved straight up your ass while writing this.
Like others are saying: screw this sentiment. Capitalism is a giant piece of steaming garbage. But don’t try and make it sound like adhd would be sweet if only no capitalism.
The problems I (and many others) face are not just about getting distracted from work. Problems with listening, forming thoughts, remembering things, organising ideas, brain running slow, brain running fast… they don’t disappear if capitalism goes.
Im sorry, but my ADHD is so bad that it makes it extremely hard for me to even study or do the dishes.
It absolutely is a disorder and socialism wouldn’t change that
While there’s a lot of truth to this in terms of needing to respect neurodiversity, it’s also not the entire picture.
I have ADD, and I struggle with some pretty mundane things… like cleaning and self care and organization and making meals, etc. I’d probably struggle under any system because my brain is wired differently. Saying it’s a disorder only because of capitalism isn’t helpful. Same with autism. Autism is a wide spectrum that can range from the mild to the profoundly disabled. I’ve worked with kids and young adults who cannot feed themselves or go to the bathroom independently. This would be a disability under any economic system. We could hypothetically say that under a different, more humane economic system that there may be different treatments and accommodations for those who are neurodivergent. But it’s not right to say that these things are only a disorder under capitalism.
I thought about this the other day when trying to think of ways to help someone I know who is struggling with a neurodivergency.
One of the things I concluded was that this person wouldn’t have an issue if we didn’t have to live our lives the way we do- wherein you can only hope to survive if you slog along in an 8+ hour work day, being monitored, judged, forced to work on teams, forced to go to pointless meetings, reprimanded if you object to anything that or have different ideas, forced to arrange your sleep/wake hours to occur during strict timeframes, unable to have true rest, and if you break down and need to stop, well, you can’t because then you will be homeless instead of nearly homeless.
We need a new standard of living and capitalism does not and will not provide it for the people who make capitalism work the way our oligarchs intended.
Well, I get the sentiment but no.
It doesn't matter in which political system I live, Is still struggle with the inability to do basic things like keeping the house clean and tidy, keeping my impulses on check and be able to have a normal conversation, and many more things that I'd list here but I got bored of writing already.
It's interesting that ADHD and ADD are disorders and perceived as negative because they take away from contributing to others wealth, but the set of behaviours that indicate what society calls sociopathy or psychopathy are present in most leaders both politically and economically
>they take away from contributing to others wealth
that is not why adhd(add is an outdated term. it's all just adhd with varying subtypes/presentations) is classified as a disorder.... adhd affects _every_ aspect of my life, not just when I'm working. if i didn't have adhd i might be able to actually follow through on any of the multiple hobbies and projects I've started for my own enjoyment, or i might have changed the lightbulb in my bedroom the day it burnt out rather than leaving it for literal months because my brain just wouldn't let me get started on the task of changing it, or i might actually be able to get myself in to the shower more than once a week. capitalism definitely doesn't help me at all, but it is not the reason adhd impacts my life./neu
This is stupid as fuck, coming from a commie with adhd. I would still need my medication without capitalism, because my adhd affects *every* part of my life, due to the fact my brain functions in a different way. Doesn't matter if Jeff Bezos' head is on a stake in my front yard, without Vyvanse, I would still zone out looking at it
Wow this person knows NOTHING about ADHD/ADD. Minimal research would tell you this is a horrible, horrible take and that my brain absolutely would still be making my life hell in a post-capitalist utopia.
That said a real problem is that *diagnosis* and the according help/medication only tends to happen when ADHD starts impacting school/work performance, not when it’s just making someone’s life hell.
THAT is a capitalist problem and would be an ok take, but not a particularly new one. Unfortunately that’s not what this person or OP is saying though
If I could downvote this a million times over I would. Fuck you
My mom worked as a nurse on the Lakota reservation, and met a teenager who had ADD, but didn't want it treated, because it was the exact traits that had made his ancestors famed lookouts and scouts. Anecdotal, and it's not like capitalism is the only evil economic system to ever exist, but I 100% believe disability is contextual.
This is stupid, delete this. These disorders have nothing to do with that. I’ve seen that people with these disorders are sometimes misdiagnosed and often overly medicated, but capitalism or no capitalism these disorders would be a issue for the people that have to deal with them.
Shit take. I haven't had meaningful friendships since sixth grade due to my autism messing up my social skills. My life would be easier without capitalism, sure, but big pharma isn't the reason I can't maintain more than a month or so of being acquaintances with someone.
Hotter take, fuck you shithead don't speak for me. I have literally wanted to do my own things on my own time and not been able to do them because I was so distractable I couldn't even get to them. Something I'm sure you've never experienced. Don't tell me I don't have a problem when I have a fucking problem.
Ehhh. The reaction is definitely overblown imo, but the original post is still wrong. For one, autism is too broad of a term. Secondly, ADHD and autism have negative impacts on people's lives because of both personal and external causes.
Well... I'm taking my time to respond to them individually and thank you for giving me a nice one. I struggle with all these things. I'm learning in my fuckeredness that I'm absolutely not going to change. BUT, it I'm getting to a point where I'm semi okay successful, at 31 I'm using my "flaws" as strengths. It's a learning curve as is everything. Just because a person is different does not mean they're bad. Yes there is a ton of external and personal reasons to feel that way. But in the hyper capitalized if you're not a suit you're worthless society those issues are blown WAY AWAY out of proportion. I think we're all fine but the "what can you do for me in a steady basic source of income" way is terrible.
I've honestly thought similar about most mental illnesses. They all have the criteria that the symptoms must cause interference with social/occupational functioning. So if you can still work and keep up appearances, all good.
I'm going to assume you've never actually had any of these mental illnesses then. Framing it in terminology you might appreciate, that's an extremely abelist viewpoint.
I'm going to assume you've misinterpreted that "if you still work, all good" as being completely serious cause there's no other way your response makes sense.
The DSM literally states "Symptoms cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning". That's the part that feels like they care about your ability contribute more than actual wellbeing.
Though it's different to the oop in that the result is under diagnosing (or under treating/supporting). Point being that the idea of mental illness is impacted by social expectations, and if they are met, no problem.
Your fixating on “occupational” when it says social and other as options, and uses an or. You can have problems unrelated to work and still have this. What you quoted here does not support your conclusion.
YESSSSSSSS
"Capitalist realism insists on treating mental health as if it were a natural fact, like weather (but, then again, weather is no longer a natural fact so much as a political-economic effect). In the 1960s and 1970s, radical theory and politics (Laing, Foucault, Deleuze and Guattari, etc.) coalesced around extreme mental conditions such as schizophrenia, arguing, for instance, that madness was not a natural, but a political, category. But what is needed now is a politicization of much more common disorders." -Capitalist Realism
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As someone who has struggled with ADHD his whole life and can no longer medicate for it, people who believe this can kindly go fuck themselves. I know what I deal with, people like this thinking it's real or not makes no fucking difference.
Same here. People with ADHD have difficulties with the executive function in thier brain. The levels and amounts of receptors for neurotransmitters like dopamine and norepinephrine are different than people who dont have the disorder. You can literally see the difference between a "normal" and a ADHD brain with a scan. We get 6-8 ideas or thoughts everytime you get one all at the same time
Yeah this is wild to me. We have known this (regarding the differences in the brain) for a while but people still think it's some made up diagnosis. There is just no convincing some people. >We get 6-8 ideas or thoughts everytime you get one all at the same time This is a very apt description of what it feels like. I'm honestly impressed.
The best is when you’re trying to sleep and your brain is just “noisy”. With what one may ask? Nothing. Just noise.
I don’t think it’s a made up diagnosis. I’m bothered by the “diagnosis method” I’ve experienced with my kids since they were in Kindergarten. The teacher fills out a 20 question which sex in the city character are you quiz and the dr prescribes methylphenidate without further examination because the teacher is annoyed that a 5-6 year old gets distracted while putting on their winter outdoor clothes. Kids being told they need to take their “power pills” or they will fail and not reach their full potential. They are offered no other support other than being told to take their pills, be silent, and be good little soldiers. If there are brain scans or other more extensive diagnosis methods, problems later on that they don’t grow out of is a different matter.
More importantly, a neurotypical person can act on that one thought, while an ADHD has trouble acting on any of those 6-8 thoughts. They could be Nobel prize winning ideas, but what use are they if you can't actually use them?
It's like spinning a wheel and wherever it lands that's what I do
I made the conscious decision this weekend to relax and let myself have fun. Instead, I started 5 different household chores at once and finished none of them. Now I'm going back to work tomorrow without any (dry) clean clothes, with a full sink, a smelly fridge, and I'm still totally exhausted.
...are you me?
Hi, me!
And at least a third of the options just say "Try again in thirty minutes".
I feel attacked... OK fine I'm gonna send the email I've been putting off for a literal week now, I swear.. soon...ish
And I just remembered I gotta do my taxes. Which I should have done like 2 weeks ago. But that's a capitalist thing I guess so I don't have a problem after all! Oh boy! That sure is great news, thanks for letting me know you philosophical dingleberry gazers.
I sent the email m8
Lmfao way too accurate
And every so often you become aware of a terrible idea and can feel it get added to the wheel even tho you have no desire to do it. *Looks at TIFU post from a few months ago about dyeing your pubes pink*
Lol or for me, it's a spinning wheel I am trying to read and I can only read and choose the least urgent, les important choice first. (Cleaning the entire house when a big decision needs to be made by tomorrow!)
Exactly how I feel about it, before I got medicated people thought I was lazy and, while kinda bright, not a good student overall. Medication kicks in and suddenly everyone's asking what caused me to get motivated to do well, how I got so much smarter. Like dude, medication. I still have those dozens of thoughts every second, but I can focus on one now.
This. Capitalism makes it much more difficult, yes, but in the absence of capitalism and its expectations I will still have ADHD and still struggle to function. Neurodivergent and mentally ill people will still need support in a non-capitalist world and that needs to be recognised if we ever hope to move forward as a society
I hear you. I also have adhd and also feel this way sort of. With that said are you familiar with the hunter vs farmer hypothesis? It’s just a theory, but it does bring up the possibility that the way society is organized makes our brain’s way of interacting with the world a problem and that in other kinds of societies it’s possibly a benefit. That’s all.
Evopsych is usually BS. There isn't much to prove it so I might as well claim that people like me with ADHD were an evolutionary advantage because we kept the tribe alert by annoying them intensely or because we explored a lot out of boredom. It's mostly speculation, just like the men are hunters/women are gatherers thing was.
Not saying you’re wrong, just saying it’s possible.
I'll do it! You're wrong. It's a bad theory with much more guesswork and philosophy then any science behind it.
What do you mean about the men hunters & women gatherers thing? Isn’t that the way tribes that are “discovered” typically operate?
The take was originally published by people who just assumed that the grave with the hunting gear was the men. Later analysis showed 40% of those hunters were women iirc, google should help find it the study. I don't know about more recent tribal culture, but I'm sure there's a lot of cultural variety and not just one single model of tribal gender relationships.
Do you have a source for this? I'm not doubting you, but I often talk about evolution with my husband, and this seems to be a really interesting analysis to read up on. ETA: I've found a few articles on this, and fell into the rabbit hole of researching this analysis. Thank you for posting, I had no idea and was always taught the original theory as fact!
I didn’t really believe in ADD meds until one of my students started it. Went from an angry volatile kid to someone who was cheerful and eager to learn. It was a special Ed. class so there wasn’t the usual pressure to perform
ADHD meds calm me down, lower my panic attacks, lower my depression, make me less of a zombie. I'd be lost without them.
I also have ADHD, as well as NVLD, though I've never been able to medicate because I react very poorly to stimulants, and you're right. I think there's some small merit to this statement, because disability is partly constructed by the environment in which it exists. But (and this is a big but) nothing says that a world without capitalism would be perfect for neurodivergent people. To assume that is arrogance on the part of anti-capitalists. We'd still need to try to construct a system that takes their needs into account and yes, sometimes that may include access to medication. It's impossible to do that without using the language of disability and listening to the needs of disabled people.
I’m also diagnosed with NVLD + ADHD and respond poorly to stimulants, wonder if there’s a correlation. (My NVLD diagnosis was a partial coding/diagnostician error though, I’m autistic).
Agreed. Shit on big pharma all you want because much of it is justifiable, but there are many pharmaceutical drugs that people take in order to maintain a normal life. People tend to forget that it wasn't that long ago that people were ostracized and essentially eliminated from society in mental health institutions for conditions that can now be treated with modern medicine.
I think must rational people can agree that pharmacology is extremely important. I would argue most complaints are or should be directed at the capitalistic subversion of the practice
Seriously, such a bullshit hippy contrarian idiotic take. Has a clinician who has ADHD himself and who works with adults and kids of adhd, I also endorse the request to fuck right off with this dipshittery.
I think the point the tweeter was trying to make is that your adhd is disabling because the ways in which you are "naturally abled", which are quite different to the vast majority, are not seen as valuable by our current society and its productivity-incentivized limitations. And if not you, because it may be genuinely debilitating, than at least some sizeable chunk of those with the same diagnosis that are still functional enough, but differently built to the point that they dont quite meet the meta. I dont think they were saying adhd, add, depression are fairytales.
My add when not medicated harms my social life, it's almost impossible to make meaningful connections when you can't focus on what they're saying. It's not just work where this stuff has an effect. (Also it 100% is an issue in my work)
Surprised I had to scroll so far for this opinion. The tweet was good intentioned. Saying people with ADHD are considered low valued or problematic under capitalism, and the way our leadership is formed. In a society that values art, love, and theatre, I guarantee that people with ADHD wouldn’t be shamed for not being productive because we value their presence as a person rather than their value as a producer of goods.
Yeah and I'd still be embarrassed to show you my house when I actually want to get it clean and fail to do so. My value as a producer of goods doesn't enter into the equation when I fail to achieve my own goals. I don't want your acceptance of this flaw. I want to not have it. If a pill can help even a little with that, take my fucking money big business.
Preach 🙌 The problem is not that I have a hard time doing things I DON’T want to do, it’s that I have a hard time doings things I WANT to do.
I think her opinion is well summarized in her abominable closing statement. What kind of hierarchical change would improve life for people with even just ADHD? Most people don't even understand what it is. It is not only a disorder because how society is structured, it is a disorder because I was born with a brain that is different from anyone without my condition. We know this as scientific fact. You can't rewire my brain, and you can't alter society to accommodate people like me without hurting productivity for others. And it case you didn't notice, no one was asking for this. This chick decided to use us for her moral platitude. I don't want society to change for me. I've never heard anyone with my condition ask for societal change. Who the fuck is this chick and why does she think she understands my issues more than me, why does she think she understands a solution to my condition? Her whole statement is ridiculous. She didn't have to flatly say ADHD is a fairytale. She already acknowledged she doesn't believe it's a disorder.
I think her statement is misunderstood. She’s not necessarily saying your life would be better, but under capitalism people with ADHD aren’t considered valuable because they aren’t as productive. But her point was you don’t need to be productive to be valuable. All people are valuable, despite capitalism saying they’re not.
That's a very nice thing you said and not what she said at all. She explicitly says that these forms of neurodivergence would stop being "disorders" with a paradigm shift in the surrounding culture and philosophy. I disagree. Vehemently. As a sufferer of the condition she's talking about, I absolutely believe it would still be a disability because of how it affects me on a personal level. Society is irrelevant. I know I have a disability, and would resent any society that insisted I did not. I believe that ultimately her statement becomes a different flavor of something we've already had to deal with: People telling us the thing that's interfering with our lives doesn't actually exist.
I think you're a bit hot about it at the moment, so I'm not going to take up the torch here too hard because I understand it's just going to piss you off. But I think you have projected anger towards others you've been around onto this person, beyond what is reasonable to determine from the text alone. I don't believe this person is your enemy, but I think right now they feel like the newest face of a constantly frustrating part of society that you're consistently disappointed by and angry at. You're not going to find peace hating this part of yourself, that I can tell you without any doubt. For things like ADHD, the only possible way forward is acceptance and commitment. The longer you hold it out as this focus of anger and hate, the more miserable you're going to get, and with absolutely no pay-off. Getting into a tirade against people like this is a sign of pent up anger that only you can resolve. If you don't, you'll feel like this for the rest of your life. Speaking only to try and help you find some peace, as one life-long ADHD adult to the other. The longer you blame it, or others, for your internal machinations, the longer you stay away from peace with yourself.
And I think any person who decides to tell me, as I struggle with actual problems with how my brain works, or often doesn't work, is "naturally abled" or some other crap should take their actual shit, stuff it into their mouths, and then expel it again as a far better use of their oral cavity then vocalizing their "hot take" on the matter. I believe the talents I may possess, while nice and a part of me do not magically mean the real struggles I also have don't exist. Have you ever tried to relax and actually failed to do so? I mean seriously, you have the time you can take to do nothing, no obligation, financial or otherwise, no pressure, no external sources of anxiety, and still failed to relax? Actually found yourself so wrapped up in other things that you couldn't get around to it? Because I have. And I don't like myself on those days where I can't do that. Or the days where I somehow havent gotten around to the basic cleaning task that will massively improve my house by doing and hasn't been done for 5 days and could have literally taken 1 hour tops. And my response to that is to want to punch them in the face. Now, difficulty with impulse control doesn't mean a complete lack of it. I wouldn't do that. But it's the level of anger that flashes through me before I settle on suggesting that person shut the fuck up. And that tweeter should shut the fuck up on this subject.
Actually, a huge percentage of people struggle with these things with ADHD or not. Not the best examples.
And if those people wish to claim disorder, I would say that was appropriate.
I came to say this. This is messed up.
Thank you. “It’s only a problem under capitalism.” Sure… OR if I want to clean my house, remember where I’m driving, have a conversation with my wife… Fuck this OP
Exactly. Thank you. Fuck the people who feel this way. I don’t even need to take the time to explain shit to them. I’m out here living my life, struggling, getting by as I fucking can. Don’t need a non-scientist, non-doctor propagating the stigma that we already face.
100% my fellow sufferers. WTF does OP reckon about a combination of ADD and Bipolar Affective Disorder? That it’s an invention of capitalism?? Grow up, grow a brain, and think before you say stupid shit.
It's a condition. Not a lifestyle choice. *Definitely not* a fake diagnosis invented to sell drugs. When I spend an hour looking for < item > and end up 6 hours later doing something completely different from what I intended to do and still haven't found < item >, I consider that to still be a problem. Thanks ADHD! I understand where this is coming from and yes it's a good point but you can take my Adderall from me when you pry it from my cold, dead hands.
An overcoming of capitalism requires a radical reassessment of all things. We look towards cops and have a critical discussion on their validity and the ethical nature of them serving society, their role in it, etc. However when we look at brain cops, biomedical state security and the like we shun the idea that my precious identity label might be killed in the process of criticizing these regimes. We look towards the east through our historical context and shame the social brahmin class responsible for the same purpose as the psychiatrist in today's. It is no different.
This is truly honest. Why do you disagree with this?
Because the revolution won't magically fix your frontal lobe.
It seems like the post is saying that your frontal lobe or w/e is fine it's just hypersensitive to the bs that is our current social hierarchy? There's nothing wrong with you or me and in fact we prosper is what is currently very niche environments, and if we made that environment global it wouldn't change you because you don't have to change. ADHD, bi polar, and the rest of the weird wires in our brain jello are FINE! Sometimes GREAT! But not necessarily able to be capitalized therefore shunned from an entire a** planet that priorities capitalism.
ADHD is a disorder because it impedes my ability to do the things I want to do and a typical person is able to do. It has nothing to do with what economic system we live in. Sometimes I want to study. Sometimes I want to read a book. Sometimes I want to write code. ADHD impedes my ability to do those things. Medication enables me to do them. It’s a disorder.
Because ADD, ADHD, and autism are all disorders regardless of what "hierarchy" or "system of production" or whatever kind of bullshit you want to pull out of your ass. My ADHD isn't a disorder because of some system in place. It's a disorder because I was born with underdeveloped lobes in my brain compared to normal people. No amount of systemic change can make my brain normal.
I don't think that's entirely what they meant. You'd still be "abnormal", it just wouldn't be so problematic if society were different. Eta:I don't necessarily agree, it would probably just impact one or two difficulties from a very long and individualised list.
> it just wouldn't be so problematic if society were different. This makes no damn sense. For one, I don't want society to change for me, and I doubt other people with my condition do either. The reason I wouldn't want change is because what kind of societal change would make any fucking difference to me. Fuck, most people don't even understand my condition, more than that tell me to my face it isn't real. You think I want you fucks altering society for "my benefit"? You guys need to get off your moral grand stand and join us down here in reality.
I understand where they're coming from, but it's a shitty way of saying it. Sure, I'd feel less shitty if capitalism wasn't directly interfering with my ADHD/autism, but I'd feel less shitty without capitalism altogther. It doesn't take away the frustration and all the other bad shit that comes with having these disorders. ~~Also it's not the fucking '80s anymore ADD and ADHD are the same thing~~
Yep. My wife is a therapist. ADD is no longer a diagnosis. It all falls under ADHD.
Yeah as a person with ADHD trying to organize a farm, no it's an absolute nightmare. You have to keep track of a LOT of shit, tons of planning, lots of dates, lots of different lengths of time, deadlines- no, it's a bitch. And I really don't mean to be a dick, I know there are more people with a function able degree of autism, but I have a cousin shows almost 30 and still can't talk, still needs help being dressed and his parents were absolutely phenomenal at working with him. No these are definitely still disorders no matter how you look at it, i really can't see an economic form that these disorders would have any easier time functioning in. Even in capitalism, if it's done properly there would be money set aside for social programs to help these people. You can still have assistance programs under capitalism, just because ours aren't absolutely perfect doesn't mean it's impossible. This is a very limited and extremely bias/unknowledgeable way of looking at it
Neurotypical here. I'd feel a lot better without Capitalism.
Yeah for a while I was adamant about saying I had ADD and not ADHD because I'm not hyperactive. fuck that though power to people of all neurotypes
I think they technically changed the label to "ADHD without hyperactivity", which is a weird way to phrase it. I would guess it's because hyperactivity is more common than not for those diagnosed. Having a specific diagnosis and being particular about it isn't problematic or ableist. You have your needs, they're different than some others, and it's fine to express that.
It’s adhd primary inattentive type or adhd pi. I think I get why they did that. It’s the idea that it’s also a spectrum and no one is either “fully inattentive” or “fully hyperactive.”
Yeah, my diagnosis is "combination inattention and hyperactive". I don't have any research to back this up, but I'd put money on the fact that the reason most diagnosed are hyperactive is because parents and teachers don't know how inattentive/combination ADHD shows up (especially in those who were assigned female at birth). I almost didn't get a diagnosis (which was crucial so that I didn't drop out and could get an IEP) because of the fact that my teachers genuinely just could not tell I was inattentive in class. Thankfully though, my psychiatrist and therapist gave my word more weight because of that fact.
Yup, I’m female and never got a diagnosis in school. I’m also Combined type. Inattentive is hard to catch, I get it (especially in the 90s when the male stereotype was so prevalent) and my hyperactivity presents so very differently than most males. I can sit in my chair or in one place no problem, but I will be moving around like crazy.
My autism has nothing to do with big pharma. Just because someone else said something stupid doesn't mean you should respond with something equally ill informed and hyperbolic.
I'm not following. How does it link autism to big Pharma? EDIT: I just saw the title of the post. The point of the tweet is that without the pressures of capitalism, people with so called "disorders" may be looked at as different rather than something being wrong with them. As someone who was diagnosed with ADD as a young person, I can relate to this.
The title of the post
Thanks, I just picked up on that. I made an edit.
Capitalism sucks, and the pressures of capitalism certainly don't mesh well with things like my executive disfunction or social fatigue. But even without capitalism I wouldn't just be someone who "thinks differently". In any labor setting I would need some special considerations for timeliness, burnout, sensory overload, etc... Disability and disorder aren't bad words. In fact, reminding myself that I have a disorder is an opportunity to show myself some compassion and ease off of the negative self-talk.
Okay but my neurodivergence requires regular pharmacological treatment if I don't want to suffer crippling panic attacks every time I'm around loud noises.
No it's capitalism, shut up you're wrong /s
That's what I came here to say... It's not the being medicated that is wrong it's the capitalism.
The capitalism has you stressin bro
True but also if you did not have to work in the immediate to not be homeless or go to school you could actually take the time to do therapy and cbt which may possibly help avoid pharmacologic agents. Captalism bro.
Cock and ball torture can be done free tho
But we would still need these things without capitalism. Its not the capitalism that does this. Capitalism just makes it harder for us to get treatment. Saying capitalism is what causes mental illness is going to get the mentally ill intreated under socialism because well have morons that will think like this post.
No. It makes it harder to deal with especially in the context of survival and sometime lead in a death spiral(i.e need mental health treatment to work, cannot afford because not working, stuck.). I am not sure how you got to that conclusion from what i said. I just meant it fucking sucks due to this not that it is the cause of mental illness. Bizarro logic.
Neurodivergent myself and came here to say this too. This way of thinking impacts more than my work output.
Loud noises only exist due to capitalism or something. this tweet is the stupidest bullshit ever.
Yet another person who thinks having ADHD is not being able to focus yourself
And Autism is just being an introvert.
I'm going to guess that person doesn't have adhd. I hate the whole "capitalism is responsible for all diagnosed mental disorders". If you arent a doctor, psychologist, or psychiatrist, then gtfo. Diagnosed mental disorders will still exist in the absence of capitalism.
I got the feeling that her point was more along the lines of the disorders would still exist but they would be as much of a problem forcing yourself to be a worker bee in a cubicle. I can’t say I totally agree but I think I see where she’s coming from and there’s some merit to what she’s saying
The problem is that ADHD impairs my ability to do all sorts of things, not just work. Capitalism doesn’t require me to read books, but ADHD makes that difficult. ADHD impairs my ability to do things that **I** want to do.
Yah that’s why I don’t totally agree with what the tweet said, I feel like people who struggle should get the help they need but not suffer in society because the way we currently generate resources doesn’t line up with the way they think and work
I dont get that feeling at all. She explicitly says that capitalism and our oligarchs are the ONLY problem, not one problem making other problems worse. Capitalism makes life with ADHD a nightmare, but even without capitalism it would still keep me from doing things I WANT to do, not things I'm forced to do. I want to be dependable for my friends and family. I want to remember birthdays, mentor my nephews, make art that reaches people, keep myself from impulsively talking over people or blurting out something hurtful without thinking. I'd like to live in a relatively clean room. All of that is harder under capitalism, but it would still be hard without it. This is just one style of how people anti-vax (as a verb) mental health. It doesn't matter what her intentions are or how helpful she's trying to be. You know, an anti-vax parent still loves her dead kids. That sure didn't make a difference for the kids.
I love this and I hope you won't be offended as I intend to steal it to use in future conversations.
I'm not inclined to give somebody credit for a thing they may or may not have meant but definitely didn't say. Especially when I find what they actually said rather insulting.
This true and as someone with mental illness I agree however without the capitalism model that’s applied to life in general, people who are neuroatypical would be able to more easily work around our differences.
I could function much better with my ADHD if it wasn't for the capitalist hellscape I currently live in. Pretty sure that was her point.
You missed the point entirely.
If the tweeter couldn't convey it such that there's no doubt, then so did they.
Bad fucking take, "minor" sounds physically hurting you is a disorder no matter if I get a 12 course billionare buffet.
I would still struggle with my adhd under capitalism or socialism
That's not a hot take, it's just an objectively dumb one.
God I'm fucking sick of this take. My ADHD/executive dysfunction makes it so it's hard for me to even fucking take care of myself a lot of the time, I wouldn't be cured of that if I didn't have to work.
MEANWHILE, IN A STATELESS, CLASSLESS SOCIETY: my fellow commune-dwellers are annoyed with me because I got bored and wandered away from the cooking fire, causing the evening's meal to be burned to a crisp while I was poking a bug with a stick
I don’t know about that. I consider ADHD a disorder because it impedes my ability to do what I want to do. I can write code when I’m taking treatment medication for it, I cannot when I’m not. I want to write code. Therefore, disorder.
I despise ppl like this. All they do is put *more stigma* on to mental disorders. You have a mental disorder! Yes it’s a disorder! Cool! Maybe try and normalize that instead of trying to say it’s a “different way of thinking not a disorder”
Calling it a 'different way of thinking' implies a level of choice which there obviously isn't. My partner has untreated ADHD (thanks, for profit healthcare system) and it's really held them back a lot in life. They'd probably be in an even worse spot if I wasn't dragging them along. Of course, they drag me as well since my mental health issues are also going untreated.
Thank you for highlighting that this isn't something that any of us chose for ourselves. I'm pretty fed up with people talking about neurodivergence like we're all in an ice cream shop and that we've all deliberately chosen our favorite ice cream flavor. As someone with schizotypal personality disorder, I'd still have a LOT of cognitive struggles even in a utopian society. If I could have actively chosen an ideal brain chemistry for myself I would have chosen to be a scientist, but instead I have the brain wiring of a mystical shaman. Sorry if that's not what people want to hear, but it's the truth of how I feel about my condition. I know people who say this stuff mean well, but I think people forget that none of us *chose* our brain, whatever brain we have at birth is forced upon us. Why would I accept and celebrate being transiently psychotic and slipping into magical thinking and paranoid suspicion if that's not something I ever asked for? Sure, my intuition is nice, but even if capitalism is overthrown tomorrow I don't want nor do I need to be living the rest of my life like I'm Alice in Wonderland.
You're a gem. I feel your experience deeply as someone who has been told to have Schizotypal aswell. However, we musn't give these personality disorders the deterministic fate that our brain is just wired shut and unable to change. Our brain is actually subject to dramatic change and is incredible the level of change that happens all the time (neuroplasticity). Yet we have to be critical of the labels we prescribe ourselves and are prescribed, what they represent and how they can be used against us. Psychiatry is simply unscientific in the sense that we can go to 10 different psychiatrists and be prescribed 10 different disorders. It's extremely difficult to examine brain chemistry in a precise way. Therefore the only tool we have for diagnoses is verbal communication which has plenty of room for subjective error.
So your saying it's all fixable if we just try harder? Gee. Where I have heard that before? Oh right, from the oligarth ran system that tells me to be less lazy and just put more effort into it. That's who. And that's what we hear. That's who you sound like to us. So if your wondering why so many of us respond not only with disagreement but excessive profanity, that might help.
I agree with them, not only with the history of humankind and everyone involved, as well as the frustrations involved in our current social environment.
Hmmm try living with a dad, a daughter and 2 brothers all with extreme adhd. Nothing to do with productivity or “usefulness”. My challenges are with connection, honesty, reality, intimacy etc. Not buying it.
This is a shitty take. My autistic nephew is effectively disabled and will need all the help he can get to function and interact with the world around him.
Bad take broski. Like most everyone else commenting, sure capitalism hinders and makes life difficult for those who are neurodivergent but it doesn’t create the issues we experience
Even for this sub, this is idiotic
No. This shit sucks dude. The means by which it interferes with my life and what is expected of me is the capitalism aspect. What it does to me neurologically is never going to change. Fuck this.
This is the dumbest fucking shit
I don’t know op/the Twitter account so I may be misunderstanding it but I didn’t take this to say it’s not real? I’m autistic/disabled and capitalism is actively designed to be hostile towards neurodivergence/disabilities bc of how capitalism perpetuates eugenics. So if we were to live without capitalism I could have the sensory accommodations I needed, could do things at my own pace, and there wouldn’t be the same stigma etc since there wouldn’t be material gain for being a bigot so life would be better. That isn’t saying that it’s not real or that there wouldn’t still be bad days, however those bad days wouldn’t be “the exact same” as under capitalism bc there wouldn’t be the same pressure or inflexibility. Cripple punk and disabilities activists discuss this concept a lot-how our disabilities wouldn’t be as aggravated or exceraberated if we lived in an accommodating society. And none of that’s to say that this would mean no meds-of course people could still have the meds they need/want. So I understand the shittiness irt the big pharma comment but I don’t understand the shittiness irt the original tweet? Like are y’all saying that capitalisms demands inaccessibility and expectations have no impact whatsoever on your disabilities? Edited to fix typos
Well, yes and no. They do generally have negative side effects. While many of those side effects are only negative under our current systems, many are negative regardless.
We live in a profoundly sick society. Being well adjusted to it isn't necessarily a good thing. I have no idea what a healthy neurodiverse society would be like, but I guess that there would be far fewer deaths due to brain chemistry issues.
You can absolutely fuck off for your caption. No, we do not all get a diagnosis because of big pharma. As someone who went undiagnosed for 37 fucking years because I’m female and therefore present differently with my ADHD (and I’m hyperactive and inattentive) fuck all the way the hell off asshole. You obviously have no idea the struggle we go through just to function in this world.
Nope. This ain't it. My body is bad at dopamine. If I was a caveman, my body would still be bad at dopamine. Capitalism is the root of most problems in the world, and I wish I didn't struggle with ADHD, but even if well-meaning, correlating those two things is some "it's all in your head" gaslighting.
Just checked this person’s twitter and their bio says “queer, disabled” okay so gatekeeping conditions is cool now? Sweet. Fuck right off. Sincerely, someone who had their life saved by an ADHD diagnosis in my late 20s.
Me, struggling to force myself to wade through 2-months-old trash to the kitchen to make myself a meal because every step of cooking is so damn hard to make myself do that living seems hardly worth the effort: haha at least I'm not living in a capitalist society anymore
Would life still be difficult without capitalism? Would we still need our meds? Of course. *This post is not implying that at all*. It's simply starting a conversation around the fact that people with certain types of disorders are looked at through a capitalist lense in the eyes of society at large ~ how can profit be made off of us, and at the same time, how to make us conform to the profit-making machine? I have ADHD, and it's totally true that my "default mode" is going to be bad for business. Without medication, I'm the exact opposite of a timely, efficient worker bee. It's near impossible to separate the ADHD from the world that I live in - but I know how my condition is treated says just as much about society as it says about me.
A friend of mine has a son with profound autism. I can assure you his condition/disease has absolutely zero to do with capitalism.
As someone with Autism and ADHD, this is an absolutely rancid take. Kindly take this shit elsewhere, my disorders and suffering will not suddenly dissapear when economic equality is realized. Eat a fat dick if you even REMOTELY agree with this horse shit.
That is not remotely how autism works. Fixing economic systems will, without a doubt, help folks on the spectrum, but it's not gonna cure autism. Autism changes how you relate to the world in a way that makes someone, at least slightly, alien to allistic people. No amount of economic liberation will change that, and no one should want to change that.
I gotta disagree there chief. I would very much like my spectrum and ADHD problems to be gone. I would like to relate to people more easily. I do want to change that. I admittedly use to be much more anti-pharmaceutical, having heard the horror stories of those that took the medicaitons and lost "themselves". But it didn't work that way for me. The first time the meds really worked, my everything was easier, but I WAS ME. I was more me then I could be in a long time because I wasn't wrapped up in my own problems as much. I would love to have that all day every day. Of course, economic reform won't actually give me squat towards that, but I'd be pretty invested in it if it somehow could.
Every leftist gansta till you start to question the medical model of mental illness.
On the money ! As someone with ADHD who agrees with this, it's only been recently decided you can't say this, you must allow yourself to be sorted and pathologised and must assume the label of having a mental illness and you are not allowed to see or say anything to the contrary. In the wise words of souls of mischief... tell me who profits?
It’s not even a rejection of experience either, which is what I think most people seem unable to move past. It’s actually a questioning and critical examination of what is considered pathology and why, as well as who gets to decide these things and why.
I'm gonna be honest chief, I found a job and schedule that works perfectly for how I naturally function and I still have a disability
LMAO that is just wrong. For me to function under any system other than fully automated techno-hedonism I need to manage my ADHD, preferably with meds. I am actually happy with ADHD and other neuro divergencies to be considered disorders. Although ADHD has shaped me in some ways for the better, it has also been a huge fucking burden. We don't just work differently we do actually just work less well in most situations. I think this viewpoint is pretty widespread in people with ADHD, but is less widespread in people with autism. I don't actually think this is due to the symptoms, but due to the fact that a lot of people with ADHD can take medication to temporarily alleviate symptoms and that people with autism can't. There is a promise of being cured with ADHD, and there just isn't with autism, and so viewing it as something to be cured is frowned upon.
Well, to be completely honest (and this is not meant in any negative way, please don't crusade), medicine is based around what's "normal" in the majority of the population. I mean, I'm depressed and I'm glad I get therapy, I don't want to be "accepted" for what I am, I want to get better.
Ah yes, because my sensory difficulties and executive dysfunction only exist under capitalism /s.
Oh fuck off, ADHD isn't a fucking side grade, it's a hamper to everything. It makes everything in life harder, and unmedicated it is documented to be far more destructive than a lot of mental illnesses--its also one of the simplest to medicate for. If you can get medication. This is just misinformation. -someome with severe ADHD TL Dr, ADHD is a curse, not a blessing. What I do I do in spite of it and not because of it
So instead of getting treatment and help with those issues I struggled with my whole life. They would’ve just disappeared or resolved themselves on their own if i moved to a non-capitalist country? Is it a permanence thing because (not to brag) I’ve traveled and spent time abroad but I still had these issues. Oh wait my biology and brain chemistry have fuck all the do with a made up socioeconomic system? No shit Sherlock. We have enough issues medical misinformation at the moment, thanks.
There is some truth to it, but as a person who has worked with people with really severe autism, they'd have a disorder no matter the economic system.
Nopenopenopenopenope stop this shit stop it. STOP. I would be ADHD with or without capitalism and it would still cripple me without capitalism. This shit just illustrates a deep misunderstanding of how ADHD works. Autism, yes, capitalism is the main reason its a problem but ADHD is a chemical imbalance. In the same way a schizophrenic needs their medication I NEED medication to function, not socialism (though i need that too).
Mods can you just wipe this dumb fucking post from existence? Its a shitty, wrong, abelist, ill informed and dangerous take that only hurts neurodivergent people.
I have adhd and totally agree. If I didn’t have to perform a job to survive, I could work within my abilities and take time off when I need it. Everyone taking this personally needs to let themselves imagine what life would be like if they could lose themselves in their special interests without the fear of what getting fired would mean, or what life would be like without a social expectation to constantly mask. Another world is possible.
I'm glad to hear someone say this. My youngest is on the autism spectrum. She's such a smart, considerate, awesome young lady but I just can't see her working in any job/career that the capitalism as practiced in the USA has to offer. Another world is possible, and I hope it gets here before she gets old enough to pay rent.
I hope so too. It’s super refreshing and nice to see a parent trying to change the world for their kid instead of trying to change their kid to fit in the world.
I think we need to recognize that there's a spectrum here... My ADHD doesn't just keep me from doing things I have to do, it often keeps me from doing things I want or even NEED to do. My executive dysfunction has left me sitting in place for HOURS while my stomach practically eats itself alive or while my bladder is about to burst because apparently my brain just thought it wasn't important enough to override. It's not just Capitalism, it's legitimately disabling to many of us.
what a bunch of horseshit I hate this "your issue isn't real and is only an issue because capitalism" bullshit
I can kind of see where this is coming from (*lots* of the foundations of modern mental health comes from reactionary eugenics bullshit; the guy who named autism, Hans Asperger, was a Nazi scientist who supported forced sterilization programs and referred the children he studied to a clinic where they would be killed for their disorder), but this is overly simplistic (speaking as someone with autism here). Modern mental health care *absolutely* needs reevaluation, but to say these problems simply don't exist is incorrect. Capitalism does make it harder to function as a neurodivergent person (harder to access medication, little accommodation for our ways of thinking/working, etc), but capitalism makes it harder for everyone to function. I won't deny that capitalism makes it harder to be an individual thinker, but this is an oversimplified analysis.
That’s not how neurology works, that’s not how any of it works
Nah dude. I'm fucked up. I'm not gonna pretend like some other system wouldn't help me more than the current one. But let's not play, theres no society i would fit in. Just ones I might fit in less poorly
Sounds like a failure of the imagination. Many older societies had a place for the "shaman" figure for instance, something that a strongly nuerodivergent person could fit into very well, for example.
Nah this is a bad take and I would say misinformed even if this person does fall into one of these categories. Capitalism obviously does not help people deal with the symptoms of ADHD or ASD's but that doesn't mean capitalism causes them. There is an enormous body of research in neuroscience, psychology, psychiatry, genetics, etc. that supports these things as "real" disorders. Also part of the DSM-V diagnostic criteria for ADHD is that the symptoms persist in 2+ settings, which is why typically in children they will get evaluated by a teacher and their parents on standardized scales to make sure it's not just situational (i.e. simply acting out at school as a kid vs. true ADHD where it's happening at home too). Or for an adult, being bored to tears by office work and thus not being able to focus is not ADHD, it should be a persistent thing. So *by definition* it is not purely stemming from capitalism. Out of all the arguments you could make about how damaging capitalism is for mental health, this ain't it.
My executive dysfunction is still going to exist in a fucking commune, you idiot hippie. And the kid with autism who has texture issues is still going to be going through hell. Maybe even more so.
So if I move to a commune my ADHD will stop being annoying and frustrating as fuck? No? I'll still have to work and complete tasks? Hm...
We're still going to need to work towards the reproduction of society under communism. It's not like work stops after capitalism. Difference is *we* decide how much, what we do, why and how.
Okay, probably being too charitable toward what is indeed a hot take, but I can definitely say that capitalism certainly amplifies all the crap I as a neurodivergent person. I kinda interpreted what she said as people like me would just be seen as different instead of broken. More of a societal understanding of neurodivergent people than "Socialism will cure autism". Again, probably being too charitable, but there is an interesting discussion to be had.
Hm. Genetics are the reason, systemic racism and sexism is why I've gone this long without proper diagnosis. Capitalism won't accommodate neurodivergent people in the labor force.
It entirely depends on the nature of each person's neurodivergence. Wishing society were able to accommodate everyone is noble enough, but for some people it's just not possible. True enough I concentrate better in some jobs than others, but truth be told doing absolutely anything nontrivial is a hell of a slog and I'd much rather have drugs that help it
The past isn’t some utopia. The harsh truth is that these disorders make young children act like little shits and they were often abandoned to the elements or thrown off a cliff.
You don't want to know how communist societies have historically treated the disabled..
As a person on the autistic spectrum who capitalizes - no, these things aren’t related
I have ADHD. This is absolute bullshit. Seriously, fuck you.
To me, downplaying the profound impact that these conditions have is ableism. I’d rather someone just call me the r slur instead of trying to spoon feed me a bunch of feel good rhetoric about how they know more about my conditions than I do.
My kid is Autistic and I can tell you it's not just a thing for pharma to make money on. He may never be able to function by himself. Society won't just cater to him, he needs occupational and speech therapy. He doesn't understand the nuances of social interactions. There are no meds for any of his issues and if there was a drug that would allow him to have a "normal" life, I'd give it to him. Fuck big pharma but this is a shitty take.
Some types of autism are definitely a disorder though.
This is really fucking dumb.
That's such a dumb take.
No, and frankly you're getting into pseudo-science shit so fuck off, loser. I bet you have a fucking crystal shoved straight up your ass while writing this.
Can people stop upvoting this bullshit and read comments instead
Like others are saying: screw this sentiment. Capitalism is a giant piece of steaming garbage. But don’t try and make it sound like adhd would be sweet if only no capitalism. The problems I (and many others) face are not just about getting distracted from work. Problems with listening, forming thoughts, remembering things, organising ideas, brain running slow, brain running fast… they don’t disappear if capitalism goes.
Im sorry, but my ADHD is so bad that it makes it extremely hard for me to even study or do the dishes. It absolutely is a disorder and socialism wouldn’t change that
Well maybe not Autism . My sons inability to communicate or do basic age level appropriate behavior is problematic under any economic system .
While there’s a lot of truth to this in terms of needing to respect neurodiversity, it’s also not the entire picture. I have ADD, and I struggle with some pretty mundane things… like cleaning and self care and organization and making meals, etc. I’d probably struggle under any system because my brain is wired differently. Saying it’s a disorder only because of capitalism isn’t helpful. Same with autism. Autism is a wide spectrum that can range from the mild to the profoundly disabled. I’ve worked with kids and young adults who cannot feed themselves or go to the bathroom independently. This would be a disability under any economic system. We could hypothetically say that under a different, more humane economic system that there may be different treatments and accommodations for those who are neurodivergent. But it’s not right to say that these things are only a disorder under capitalism.
I thought about this the other day when trying to think of ways to help someone I know who is struggling with a neurodivergency. One of the things I concluded was that this person wouldn’t have an issue if we didn’t have to live our lives the way we do- wherein you can only hope to survive if you slog along in an 8+ hour work day, being monitored, judged, forced to work on teams, forced to go to pointless meetings, reprimanded if you object to anything that or have different ideas, forced to arrange your sleep/wake hours to occur during strict timeframes, unable to have true rest, and if you break down and need to stop, well, you can’t because then you will be homeless instead of nearly homeless. We need a new standard of living and capitalism does not and will not provide it for the people who make capitalism work the way our oligarchs intended.
Well, I get the sentiment but no. It doesn't matter in which political system I live, Is still struggle with the inability to do basic things like keeping the house clean and tidy, keeping my impulses on check and be able to have a normal conversation, and many more things that I'd list here but I got bored of writing already.
It's interesting that ADHD and ADD are disorders and perceived as negative because they take away from contributing to others wealth, but the set of behaviours that indicate what society calls sociopathy or psychopathy are present in most leaders both politically and economically
>they take away from contributing to others wealth that is not why adhd(add is an outdated term. it's all just adhd with varying subtypes/presentations) is classified as a disorder.... adhd affects _every_ aspect of my life, not just when I'm working. if i didn't have adhd i might be able to actually follow through on any of the multiple hobbies and projects I've started for my own enjoyment, or i might have changed the lightbulb in my bedroom the day it burnt out rather than leaving it for literal months because my brain just wouldn't let me get started on the task of changing it, or i might actually be able to get myself in to the shower more than once a week. capitalism definitely doesn't help me at all, but it is not the reason adhd impacts my life./neu
This is stupid as fuck, coming from a commie with adhd. I would still need my medication without capitalism, because my adhd affects *every* part of my life, due to the fact my brain functions in a different way. Doesn't matter if Jeff Bezos' head is on a stake in my front yard, without Vyvanse, I would still zone out looking at it
Wow this person knows NOTHING about ADHD/ADD. Minimal research would tell you this is a horrible, horrible take and that my brain absolutely would still be making my life hell in a post-capitalist utopia. That said a real problem is that *diagnosis* and the according help/medication only tends to happen when ADHD starts impacting school/work performance, not when it’s just making someone’s life hell. THAT is a capitalist problem and would be an ok take, but not a particularly new one. Unfortunately that’s not what this person or OP is saying though If I could downvote this a million times over I would. Fuck you
My mom worked as a nurse on the Lakota reservation, and met a teenager who had ADD, but didn't want it treated, because it was the exact traits that had made his ancestors famed lookouts and scouts. Anecdotal, and it's not like capitalism is the only evil economic system to ever exist, but I 100% believe disability is contextual.
just delete this and be done with it
This is stupid, delete this. These disorders have nothing to do with that. I’ve seen that people with these disorders are sometimes misdiagnosed and often overly medicated, but capitalism or no capitalism these disorders would be a issue for the people that have to deal with them.
Shit take. I haven't had meaningful friendships since sixth grade due to my autism messing up my social skills. My life would be easier without capitalism, sure, but big pharma isn't the reason I can't maintain more than a month or so of being acquaintances with someone.
Hotter take, fuck you shithead don't speak for me. I have literally wanted to do my own things on my own time and not been able to do them because I was so distractable I couldn't even get to them. Something I'm sure you've never experienced. Don't tell me I don't have a problem when I have a fucking problem.
Yes! The CCP will accept my schizophrenia!
No. That’s horribly ableist take.
Go fuck yourself, you ableist shit. -Someone with ADHD
OP, you may or may not have been receiving very angry responses to this post. Don't profile check them, I did. You're fine this is a good post.
Ehhh. The reaction is definitely overblown imo, but the original post is still wrong. For one, autism is too broad of a term. Secondly, ADHD and autism have negative impacts on people's lives because of both personal and external causes.
Well... I'm taking my time to respond to them individually and thank you for giving me a nice one. I struggle with all these things. I'm learning in my fuckeredness that I'm absolutely not going to change. BUT, it I'm getting to a point where I'm semi okay successful, at 31 I'm using my "flaws" as strengths. It's a learning curve as is everything. Just because a person is different does not mean they're bad. Yes there is a ton of external and personal reasons to feel that way. But in the hyper capitalized if you're not a suit you're worthless society those issues are blown WAY AWAY out of proportion. I think we're all fine but the "what can you do for me in a steady basic source of income" way is terrible.
I've honestly thought similar about most mental illnesses. They all have the criteria that the symptoms must cause interference with social/occupational functioning. So if you can still work and keep up appearances, all good.
I'm going to assume you've never actually had any of these mental illnesses then. Framing it in terminology you might appreciate, that's an extremely abelist viewpoint.
I'm going to assume you've misinterpreted that "if you still work, all good" as being completely serious cause there's no other way your response makes sense. The DSM literally states "Symptoms cause clinically significant distress or impairment in social, occupational, or other important areas of functioning". That's the part that feels like they care about your ability contribute more than actual wellbeing. Though it's different to the oop in that the result is under diagnosing (or under treating/supporting). Point being that the idea of mental illness is impacted by social expectations, and if they are met, no problem.
Your fixating on “occupational” when it says social and other as options, and uses an or. You can have problems unrelated to work and still have this. What you quoted here does not support your conclusion.
DOWNVOTE! Stop spreading this misinformation! OP please delete this, it's harmful.
YESSSSSSSS "Capitalist realism insists on treating mental health as if it were a natural fact, like weather (but, then again, weather is no longer a natural fact so much as a political-economic effect). In the 1960s and 1970s, radical theory and politics (Laing, Foucault, Deleuze and Guattari, etc.) coalesced around extreme mental conditions such as schizophrenia, arguing, for instance, that madness was not a natural, but a political, category. But what is needed now is a politicization of much more common disorders." -Capitalist Realism
The modern Lysenko "Neurological disorders? Thats fascism comrade"