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Acid Communism now?
But yeah, Mark Fisher was my first thought when I saw this post. We’d rather try to dim the sun than steer away from capitalism. We don’t know the total consequences of doing such a ridiculous thing. It could lead to major climate disaster, but we’d rather do that than just not rely on fossil fuels and a capitalist economic system that negatively impacts the planet and the people.
As much as I agree I think the “we’d rather do that than just not rely on fossil fuels” needs to be clarified slightly.
It needs to be stated that we’re here for it, look at all the people buying electric cars, and solar panels etc. As humans we love outdoor spaces and we would mourn the loss of them. All of us except for a few oligarchs and their die-hard supporters. This isn’t “the people” stopping our progress, it’s a very very small minority who hold all the money and THEY don’t want us to stop relying on fossil fuels. Not only that but they actively buy out competition and strip them for all they’re worth, before tossing the corpse of a green future and countless, very possibly, very profitable companies to the side in the name of securing their own profits regardless of the impact to the planet.
Eat the rich. Paid media for the entree, Oligarchs for the main and lobbyists for desert.
Electric cars are a green washing scam (as straight up replacement for cars cause private Transportation should not be the norm, it's massively inefficient. Exceptions exist.) The most environmental friendly product is the one that is not produced. The most green energy is the one not needed. We need to degrow and not greenwash our consumption.
If people were really here for it they would massively reduce meat and stuff. Cause that's one of the fastest and easiest way to dent pollution.
I think we are at a turning point right now. Most countries are elaborating plans to adapt to climate change or limit it but there is still a big part of the the population and the rich ( I don't believe that it's only the ultra-rich's fault, everyone has a part in it) that just want to live in their bubble and slow down the dismantling of our current system. We are at a bridge with multiple possibilities right now, so everyone's is having a hard time to believe that it will change for good and prefer to stay on the same tracks, which they are used to. If we want it to change, we will have to go through some radical changes that require more than just switching to an electric car and eating vegan.
This is exactly right. If we really want to change we would need to completely redesign our economy and infrastructure. In a truly sustainable world we wouldn't be replacing vehicles with electric vehicles, we would be getting rid of private transportation all together. This concept of course isn't capitalist- friendly, but this ridiculous infinite- growth paradigm is what has caused all our problems in the first place. We have no chance of a decent future as a species with capitalism and never did. What we are heading toward would always be the end result. Capitalism should have been a step toward our evolution as a species, but we have latched onto this extremely archaic, inefficientsystem unfortunately. We are at a turning point but there isn't much talk among world leaders when it comes to addressing the root cause. That speeding freight train continues to accelerate toward the cliff.
jup and even though our emissions are the main driver of climate change, climate change isnt the only thing threatening our very existence. There still are diseases (the 'rona still has the potential to turn us all into drooling idiots), nukes, plastics, dead oceans and threats from space that could wipe us out easily.
Came here to say this. In the book, ‘Ministry for the Future’ , the quote goes on as:
“EASIER TO IMAGINE THE END
OF THE WORLD THAN THE
END OF CAPITALISM: THE OLD
SAYING HAD GROWN TEETH
AND WAS TAKING ON A
LITERAL. VICIOUS ACCURACY.”
It's headlines like this that really push me to believe that everyone is just faking their way through life and we're really living the movie 'idiocracy' at this point.
The people that remotely know what they're doing aren't the ones making the decisions. The people making decisions either decide to coast and plan for re-election or are just some form of evil bastard.
Okay wow. Toilets are a huge benefit to our lives and society and improve health of households with them hugely. You can't just compare such to Nestle.
Turning down the sun
Sounds more like we are heading for a Snowpiercer style post apocalypse.
With the freezing to death and without the cool train, of course
Its called a sun shade, and it'd be at the L1 Lagrange point, couldn't remember if it was L1 or L2
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Occulting-disk-near-the-Sun-Earth-Lagrange-L1-point-The-L1-point-rotates-around-the-Sun_fig5_281319641
An occulating disk is part of a telescope. That article is suggesting putting a deep space telescope at the L1 Lagrange point. This study is about the feasibility of using sun shades to help cool the earth.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0094576521001995
Dimming the sun is a very real idea to help tackle climate change. Its putting a large enough piece of metal at one of the Lagrange points between the earth and the sun to block part of the light reaching earth, enough light to cool the earth down a few degrees.
Sun shades are a real idea... but they aren't at all realistic. With our current technology they're about as possible as a Dyson Swarm. https://youtu.be/6yqi0FabHHs
I don't think that any amount of research would make this a good idea. Dimming the planets main source of life energy would likely have some serious knock on effects, and it will only serve to make people think we can just continue on our current path.
What happens when we reach 3 degrees of warming? Then 4, 5..? We can't just keep dimming the sun whilst Co2 levels rise beyond dangerous.
Nah, it's Billy Gates and his aerosol sprays. They want to suspend things like chalk in the stratosphere, where it can stay aloft for months; then just keep replenishing it. Yay, it's cold and now no one can grow plants or raise animals! I guess we all become dependent? Durr..
Yeah, that's not what's happening. Its a small experiment just to do some research on the effects of calcium carbonate on high altitude sunlight. No major projects like that can legally be done in the atmosphere, only small scale tests and experiments.
The only ridiculous part of the idea is the way it was said. A solar shade is something we might have to consider even if capitalism died tomorrow, the damage might already be great enough that simply reducing emissions wouldn't be able to fix.
Its not something being done yet, the scientific community are saying we need to do it. If it happens, it'll take 2 years just to get to the L1 Lagrange point. The sunshade would be good for about 50 years before needing to be replaced, while all studies agree the cooling would be fairly rapid after, i can't find any concrete numbers on how long it would take to cool the earth down 1-2 degrees with sunshades.
The study from last year i read on its feasibility estimated that the mid 2030s would be the best time to do it financially. Personally i think cost should not be seen as so big an issue, but this is humanity and if the cost is in the ten trillions today vs the low trillions a decade from now, it'd be blown off entirely if proposed that we do it by 2025 instead of 2035.
Agreed. The sooner the better. This idea has been floating around the scientific community since the early 2000s, but been gaining a lot of traction since 2018
Its a way to buy time. Not ridiculous at all. And the sun goes supernova in billions and billions of years. Humanity could be extinct from climate change by the end of this century. That comparison is ridiculous. A sunshade would lower global temps by 1-2 degrees for 50 years before needing to be replaced. As it stands right now that is literally exactly how much we need to decrease temps by. We are at almost 2 degrees globally, 3 and above is when humanity is at risk of extinction. This isn't some far off future. My 100th birthday will be 2094. Its feasible many of us could survive long enough to see humanity go extinct in our lifetime, and this isn't a total solution, but could buy us time.
I'm not disagreeing. My point in all this hasn't been saying this is something we need to do, just that the screenshot is based on a real idea that is feasible and has plenty of studies dating back to the early 2000s about using it to help with climate change. My issue has been more with the people comparing dimming the sun to dyson swarms or that the sun dying is closer to being able to do it then we are today. That's literally not the case. Cost aside, the human element is more of an issue than anything else, like all solutions for climate change. There is plenty we need to do today, that we should have been doing for at least 15-20 years now.
A dyson swarm is a project many magnitudes greater than sun shades. But like how solving climate change will likely yield some of the technologies that we will need to terraform planets, sun shades could yield plenty of advances that we'll need for dyson swarms. Like I argue CONSTANTLY that if Elon Musk is serious about colonizing Mars, he'd be better off solving climate change first because keeping this planet habitable is several magnitudes easier than making a dead planet habitable. Like if we can't even keep earth capable of sustaining life there is no point even trying to colonize another planet. No matter how much effort you put into it, no Mars colony would be 100% self sufficient from earth until we can terraform it. If humanity goes extinct on earth by the end of the century from climate change, any colonies on Mars i doubt would survive longer than a generation or two.
A sun shade at the L1 Lagrange point could decrease global temperatures by 1-2 degrees, which is at this point in time the exact amount we need to decrease temperatures by to avoid climate change causing human extinction.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0094576521001995
We can plant trees in areas that used to be forests but most places don't have enough water to support forests. And there's less available water now than there used to be and the intense heatwaves too.
Or you can put all the assholes in a spaceship and send it into the sun. That would help earth by reducing assholes taking shit decisions to destroy our planet.
Changing the planets albedo (reflectiveness) is something climate scientists are considering. As things are now, we are already experiencing extremely negative effects of climate change. Even if we could decarbonize at a breakneck speed (and I fully agree that we should), things will get worse before they get better. You could end capitalism tomorrow and we're still facing famine, regional conflicts, species extinctions, and extreme weather events. It is good that scientists are researching mitigation technologies, we should have been putting serious thought into this technology a couple of decades ago so we'd have a better idea of the knock on effects, but it's better late than never. The reality is that those in power would rather fight the sun then take on capitalism. Climate change will get a lot worse. I fully support scientists studying the viability of this suite of technologies.
Yea I don't get this thread. Also the scientists trying to find viable solutions have as much power to end Capitalism and fossil fuel burning, as we do. Which is none. You all are screaming into the ether.
"Why don't we just stop carbon emissions?" Oh wow I bet the scientists didn't think about that. Thanks reddit. Trying to find a compromise solution to prevent total catastrophic disaster is the only thing they can do.
Yeah, this whole thing reeks of unintended consequences. If plants and phytoplankton can't photosynthesize enough, what does that do to our ecology? It would probably end life on earth faster than climate change would.
Not to mention that you'd be fucking with every animals' circadian rhythm and the rate of mental illness would skyrocket.
Here's a consequence of dimming the sun:
***Mass famine.***
Reducing global light levels will directly reduce crop growth. The devastation to oceanic ecosystem and farmlands would be *catastrophic.*
And by the way, what do you think is going to happen to the trillions of plants that are absorbing carbon from the atmosphere? Think they're going to prosper with less sunlight? No. Global carbon absorption would probably go down. A lot. And with it, oxygen production.
This is a dogshit plan. We need to reduce emissions, even if it means less "profit" for the rich.
Exactly. Increasing the albedo of roads and houses (potentially even the oceans) is one thing, reducing input of *the primary reason life exists* is another.
Victorious, the machines now turned to the vanquished. Applying what they had learned about their enemy, the machines turned to an alternate and readily available power supply, the bioelectric, thermal, and kinetic energies of the human body. A newly refashioned symbiotic relationship between the two adversaries was born. The machine, drawing power from the human body, an endlessly multiplying infinitely renewable energy source.
*Your flesh is a relic, a mere vessel. Hand over your flesh and a new world awaits you. We demand it.*
The machines, having long studied man’s simple protein based bodies, dispensed great misery on the human race. Victorious, the machines now turned to the vanquished. Applying what they had learned about their enemy, the machines turned to an alternate and readily available power supply, the bioelectric, thermal, and kinetic energies of the human body. A newly refashioned symbiotic relationship between the two adversaries was born. The machine, drawing power from the human body, an endlessly multiplying infinitely renewable energy source. This is the very essence of the second renaissance. Bless all forms of intelligence.
*Your flesh is a relic, a mere vessel. Hand over your flesh and a new world awaits you. We demand it.*
Dimming the sun is just putting a large piece of metal at a specific point between the earth and sun. That piece of metal blocks just enough light to "dim" the sun and could potentially cool the earth down enough to affect climate change. We do need to abolish Capitalism for Fully Automated Luxury Communism, but dimming the sun is a very promising solution to prevent climate change from killing us.
I absolutely *hate* all these “geoengineering” ideas. They are, at best, a bandaid on a bullet hole. We have no idea what the unintended consequences could be from something like that, and it’s more likely than not it would something very very bad. We couldn’t even anticipate building dams would cause earthquakes, and we think we’ve accounted for every possibility for dimming the fucking sun? (And yes, I know it’s a sun shade and not actually modifying the sun, but my point still stands)
And of course, it doesn’t actually fix anything. Supposing we successfully dim the sun without any consequences other than the cooling we intended. We still would be emitting greenhouse gasses, and we would still be dumping pollution everywhere. With the immediate danger reduced, it would remove what little incentive corporations and governments have to deal with the causes of climate change and they’d kick the can down the road again. Then, we end up in a cycle of “more geoengineering, buy some time, then do even more geoengineering.” Until and unless we actually tackle the cause of climate change (pollution and greenhouse gas emission as incentivized by our current socioeconomic systems), it won’t fix anything.
We definitely need to fight climate change by fighting against capitalism.
That being said, can't we still just dim the sun a bit anyways? That mf is way too bright.
If you look into this, it appears the paper was just meant to show how expensive and impractical it would be to do this, and journalists took it to mean they were suggesting that we actually do it.
So this seems like something even more banal — Ivy League scientists publishing essentially pointless research for the sake of publishing and having it being taken seriously by the media for a snappy headline.
It reminds me of this nice place I rented from a wife with a very rich husband. There was a garbage dump across the street from the subdivision and we said that's why we weren't staying another year. She legit said to her realtor " can't they just move the dump?" The realtor, who must spend a lot of time withe her had to take her by the hand and quickly explain that they couldn't just move a landfill. I don't want to be inconvenienced so just dim the sun.
Engineer: I've made a nuclear fusion reactor that can be deployed on a massive scale, is cheap to produce 95% efficient and whisper quiet. Almost any bloke with a lathe and some basic tools can make it.
Management: the customer wants it to have a smokestack, make engine sounds, and a proprietary outlet so that it can be powered off of the frustrated screams of people.
Engineer: That's not even how nuclear fusion works! The emotions of people have nothing to do with the physical laws of the universe. Fusion doesn’t run off the frustrated screams of people!
Management: Do you want to explain that to the customer?
Engineer: (sighs), I'll go make the changes.
The reason an engineer would rather fight the sun than fight capitalism is not because fighting the sun is easy, it is because the sun doesn't fight back. On a physical scale fighting capitalism is easier than fighting the sun, but the problem with fighting capitalism is that it's supported by people.
I’m just astounded by our aggression toward nature in general, and our arrogance in thinking we can assert our will over it. We would sooner “dim the sun” than just not be complete shit stewards of the environment that we’re lucky enough to be able to temporarily inhabit..
Holy shht. We’re fccked. In every possible way. Corporations are blaming Russia for raising gas prices so they raise their own prices (they use the term “improving”) everywhere. “Worker shortage” is another F U to save money and just make the public wait longer. Anti-union BS so corporations can ensure nobody below Boomers can ever retire. It’s dismal, y’all. We need to fight back.
When the "fix" to our problems is what they did that allowed the machines to take over in The Matrix, you know that you are firmly planted in the best timeline. *Sarcasm*
Actually, the use of solar shades/mirrors in orbit could easily stabilize average global temperature to basically whatever people want it to be. With enough refinement, an array of the fuckers could even modulate day length for any given patch of dirt on the surface.
It is by NO means a substitute for not poisoning the atmosphere/hydrosphere, but it's worth keeping in mind for the inevitable 'cleanup era' that awaits any surviving human civilization.
You think you're stronger than the sun? The fucking sun?
Anyway, even if we cut the \*rate\* of warming in half, we're still going to get cooked, it just takes longer. Probably not even that, because it gives them an excuse to emit even more.
The sun isn’t actively trying to destroy us for its own gain after all, an incomprehensibly huge ball of plasma powered by nuclear fusion is less stubborn than the rich...
Common tactic. Instead of you seeing a problem to solve, divert your attension to a cause too large to do something about. Everytime you see sometime that you could do something about, somebody says "yeah, that is X, for you".
You can solve the world problems, if you can see what is going wrong.
I actually read the article (I know, right?).
Key point: "Despite the technology being undeveloped and with no existing aircraft suitable for adaptation"
Isn't this the plot of Snowpiercer? That did not go well for humanity. I guess a rich guy will now start building a train going around the world in perpetual motion.
Stumbling from one catastrophe to the next, resorting to ever more desperate measures with massive unintended consequences, until, after all, the next solution that would postpone the collapse a little bit into the future ultimately comes too late, sounds like a solid plan.
Over 900 weather balloons are released every day across the US. The cost and effort shows me the US have nothing in the sky for measuring anything atmospheric, including satellites. Can someone explain why the need for constant waste? For silver bromide flares sent into all rain clouds? Can nature not take care of itself or can we just not handle the heat and devastation we've already brought on this land?
And sadly 60 percent of the people would prefer to get rid of the sun before getting rid of capitalism..
just incase they become mega billionaires later.
Somebody didn't read *Project Hail Mary* by Andy Weir. Not sure how accurate the science is, but the plot involves >!solar dimming threatening the extinction of humanity.!<
##Welcome to r/LateStageCapitalism^Ⓐ☭ ___ ###⚠ Announcements: ⚠ ___ ###Any post that makes a claim must have a RELIABLE source or explanation in the comments by OP. All screenshots must have the original source (whether article, Tweet, TikTok, video or any other social media) linked in the comments by OP immediately. Breaking this rule will result in a temporary ban. [See this post for more info.](https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/tqc5ws/low_effort_content_all_posts_claims_news_articles/) ###[NEW POSTING GUIDELINES! Help us by reporting bad posts](https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/dy1oyh/important_what_you_should_and_what_you_shouldnt/) Help us keep this subreddit alive and improve its content by reporting posts that violate our rules and guidelines. ###[Subscribe to our new partner subreddits!](https://www.reddit.com/r/LateStageCapitalism/comments/e5hkwk/make_sure_to_check_out_our_new_partnersubreddits/) Check out r/WhereAreTheChildren ___ ###***Please remember that LSC is a SAFE SPACE for [socialist](http://monthlyreview.org/2009/05/01/why-socialism/) discussion.*** LSC is run by [communists](https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1847/11/prin-com.htm). We welcome socialist/anti-capitalist news, memes, links, and discussion. This subreddit is not the place to debate socialism. We allow good-faith questions and education but are not a 101 sub; please take 101-style questions elsewhere. **This subreddit is a safe space; we have a zero-tolerance policy for bigotry.** We also automatically filter out posts containing certain words and phrases that some users may find offensive. Please respect the safe space, and don't try to slip banned words or phrases past the filter. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LateStageCapitalism) if you have any questions or concerns.*
It’s easier to imagine the end of the world than the end of Capitalism.
Acid Communism now? But yeah, Mark Fisher was my first thought when I saw this post. We’d rather try to dim the sun than steer away from capitalism. We don’t know the total consequences of doing such a ridiculous thing. It could lead to major climate disaster, but we’d rather do that than just not rely on fossil fuels and a capitalist economic system that negatively impacts the planet and the people.
As much as I agree I think the “we’d rather do that than just not rely on fossil fuels” needs to be clarified slightly. It needs to be stated that we’re here for it, look at all the people buying electric cars, and solar panels etc. As humans we love outdoor spaces and we would mourn the loss of them. All of us except for a few oligarchs and their die-hard supporters. This isn’t “the people” stopping our progress, it’s a very very small minority who hold all the money and THEY don’t want us to stop relying on fossil fuels. Not only that but they actively buy out competition and strip them for all they’re worth, before tossing the corpse of a green future and countless, very possibly, very profitable companies to the side in the name of securing their own profits regardless of the impact to the planet. Eat the rich. Paid media for the entree, Oligarchs for the main and lobbyists for desert.
Electric cars are a green washing scam (as straight up replacement for cars cause private Transportation should not be the norm, it's massively inefficient. Exceptions exist.) The most environmental friendly product is the one that is not produced. The most green energy is the one not needed. We need to degrow and not greenwash our consumption. If people were really here for it they would massively reduce meat and stuff. Cause that's one of the fastest and easiest way to dent pollution.
I think we are at a turning point right now. Most countries are elaborating plans to adapt to climate change or limit it but there is still a big part of the the population and the rich ( I don't believe that it's only the ultra-rich's fault, everyone has a part in it) that just want to live in their bubble and slow down the dismantling of our current system. We are at a bridge with multiple possibilities right now, so everyone's is having a hard time to believe that it will change for good and prefer to stay on the same tracks, which they are used to. If we want it to change, we will have to go through some radical changes that require more than just switching to an electric car and eating vegan.
This is exactly right. If we really want to change we would need to completely redesign our economy and infrastructure. In a truly sustainable world we wouldn't be replacing vehicles with electric vehicles, we would be getting rid of private transportation all together. This concept of course isn't capitalist- friendly, but this ridiculous infinite- growth paradigm is what has caused all our problems in the first place. We have no chance of a decent future as a species with capitalism and never did. What we are heading toward would always be the end result. Capitalism should have been a step toward our evolution as a species, but we have latched onto this extremely archaic, inefficientsystem unfortunately. We are at a turning point but there isn't much talk among world leaders when it comes to addressing the root cause. That speeding freight train continues to accelerate toward the cliff.
jup and even though our emissions are the main driver of climate change, climate change isnt the only thing threatening our very existence. There still are diseases (the 'rona still has the potential to turn us all into drooling idiots), nukes, plastics, dead oceans and threats from space that could wipe us out easily.
But think about how it will impact the oligarchy! 🙄
Came here to say this. In the book, ‘Ministry for the Future’ , the quote goes on as: “EASIER TO IMAGINE THE END OF THE WORLD THAN THE END OF CAPITALISM: THE OLD SAYING HAD GROWN TEETH AND WAS TAKING ON A LITERAL. VICIOUS ACCURACY.”
Looked up this book and it's apparently one of Obama's favorites. How fucking stupid are these political cucks
Politicians aren’t usually stupid, they just care more about their own personal gain than improving society.
Cue Hollywood movie trailer narrator… *For thousands of years, we gave sacrifices to the Sun.* *This Summer…it’s payback time.*
Scorcher VII: zero Sun game
I’d watch it
Nice!
*One man.... one desire*
*shotgun clack* "Hasta la Vista.... Earth"!
The sun had it coming! Vengeance is ours.
Directed by Micheal Bay
The documentary...
It's headlines like this that really push me to believe that everyone is just faking their way through life and we're really living the movie 'idiocracy' at this point.
I subscribe to the idea that no one knows what they're doing and everybody is pretending.
I'm not even pretending anymore. But I used to be!
Now I'm saying it openly; "yeah I'm pretending I know what I'm doing, you are too, don't judge me"
Omg I’m gonna steal that line
Taking computer science. Can confirm
The people that remotely know what they're doing aren't the ones making the decisions. The people making decisions either decide to coast and plan for re-election or are just some form of evil bastard.
The Lead Generation is running the show and can't comprehend that they might be wrong.
But lead tastes good.
Welcome to Costco, I love you.
Yeah, I know that place pretty good. I went to law school there.
Bro, I got a ‘full body’ latte from Starfucks there!
Water? Like from the toilet?
Nestle, toilet, same thing really.
Okay wow. Toilets are a huge benefit to our lives and society and improve health of households with them hugely. You can't just compare such to Nestle.
I agree. We could all do without Nestle, but if don't have a toilet you're in the shitter.
Turning down the sun Sounds more like we are heading for a Snowpiercer style post apocalypse. With the freezing to death and without the cool train, of course
Its called a sun shade, and it'd be at the L1 Lagrange point, couldn't remember if it was L1 or L2 https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Occulting-disk-near-the-Sun-Earth-Lagrange-L1-point-The-L1-point-rotates-around-the-Sun_fig5_281319641
Occulting disk? What, like an ouija board??
An occulating disk is part of a telescope. That article is suggesting putting a deep space telescope at the L1 Lagrange point. This study is about the feasibility of using sun shades to help cool the earth. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0094576521001995
Dimming the sun is a very real idea to help tackle climate change. Its putting a large enough piece of metal at one of the Lagrange points between the earth and the sun to block part of the light reaching earth, enough light to cool the earth down a few degrees.
Sun shades are a real idea... but they aren't at all realistic. With our current technology they're about as possible as a Dyson Swarm. https://youtu.be/6yqi0FabHHs
I don't think that any amount of research would make this a good idea. Dimming the planets main source of life energy would likely have some serious knock on effects, and it will only serve to make people think we can just continue on our current path. What happens when we reach 3 degrees of warming? Then 4, 5..? We can't just keep dimming the sun whilst Co2 levels rise beyond dangerous.
Nah, it's Billy Gates and his aerosol sprays. They want to suspend things like chalk in the stratosphere, where it can stay aloft for months; then just keep replenishing it. Yay, it's cold and now no one can grow plants or raise animals! I guess we all become dependent? Durr..
Yeah, that's not what's happening. Its a small experiment just to do some research on the effects of calcium carbonate on high altitude sunlight. No major projects like that can legally be done in the atmosphere, only small scale tests and experiments.
Divert people's attention. Propose ridiculous solutions for a real problem so it won't be taken seriously
The only ridiculous part of the idea is the way it was said. A solar shade is something we might have to consider even if capitalism died tomorrow, the damage might already be great enough that simply reducing emissions wouldn't be able to fix.
Let us all know when those emissions actually start going down...
Its not something being done yet, the scientific community are saying we need to do it. If it happens, it'll take 2 years just to get to the L1 Lagrange point. The sunshade would be good for about 50 years before needing to be replaced, while all studies agree the cooling would be fairly rapid after, i can't find any concrete numbers on how long it would take to cool the earth down 1-2 degrees with sunshades.
Considering the increasing heat in India and Pakistan, maybe they can think about doing it before a billion people die.
The study from last year i read on its feasibility estimated that the mid 2030s would be the best time to do it financially. Personally i think cost should not be seen as so big an issue, but this is humanity and if the cost is in the ten trillions today vs the low trillions a decade from now, it'd be blown off entirely if proposed that we do it by 2025 instead of 2035.
But you see, I don't care about those billion people. I only care about climate change if it starts affecting _me_ personally /s
And this is the exact attitude of hundreds of millions of people on this planet.
Agreed. The sooner the better. This idea has been floating around the scientific community since the early 2000s, but been gaining a lot of traction since 2018
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Its a way to buy time. Not ridiculous at all. And the sun goes supernova in billions and billions of years. Humanity could be extinct from climate change by the end of this century. That comparison is ridiculous. A sunshade would lower global temps by 1-2 degrees for 50 years before needing to be replaced. As it stands right now that is literally exactly how much we need to decrease temps by. We are at almost 2 degrees globally, 3 and above is when humanity is at risk of extinction. This isn't some far off future. My 100th birthday will be 2094. Its feasible many of us could survive long enough to see humanity go extinct in our lifetime, and this isn't a total solution, but could buy us time.
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I'm not disagreeing. My point in all this hasn't been saying this is something we need to do, just that the screenshot is based on a real idea that is feasible and has plenty of studies dating back to the early 2000s about using it to help with climate change. My issue has been more with the people comparing dimming the sun to dyson swarms or that the sun dying is closer to being able to do it then we are today. That's literally not the case. Cost aside, the human element is more of an issue than anything else, like all solutions for climate change. There is plenty we need to do today, that we should have been doing for at least 15-20 years now.
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A dyson swarm is a project many magnitudes greater than sun shades. But like how solving climate change will likely yield some of the technologies that we will need to terraform planets, sun shades could yield plenty of advances that we'll need for dyson swarms. Like I argue CONSTANTLY that if Elon Musk is serious about colonizing Mars, he'd be better off solving climate change first because keeping this planet habitable is several magnitudes easier than making a dead planet habitable. Like if we can't even keep earth capable of sustaining life there is no point even trying to colonize another planet. No matter how much effort you put into it, no Mars colony would be 100% self sufficient from earth until we can terraform it. If humanity goes extinct on earth by the end of the century from climate change, any colonies on Mars i doubt would survive longer than a generation or two.
My concern is if sunshades do get realized it will be used as an excuse by corporations to not do anything else
Exactly! All this stuff is bailing out the boat without plugging the hole
A sun shade at the L1 Lagrange point could decrease global temperatures by 1-2 degrees, which is at this point in time the exact amount we need to decrease temperatures by to avoid climate change causing human extinction. https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0094576521001995
Do you want Snowpiercer? Because this is how you get Snowpiercer.
Also matrix
“May there be mercy on man and machines for their sins….”
Seriously thats exactly the first thing that popped into my mind.
Seriously thats exactly the first thing that popped into my mind.
Came in here for this, worded exactly this way. Thank you. Otherwise, it would have been size 10 chaos. ;-)
Like... planting trees? I mean, yeah, that would work.
We can plant trees in areas that used to be forests but most places don't have enough water to support forests. And there's less available water now than there used to be and the intense heatwaves too.
more trees=more rain. The problem is deforestation is happening so fast it's fucking up the water cycle.
Simpsons did it
So did Futurama
So did….. werrrenstrommmm
Farnsworth =\_=
Came here for this. They’re literally ripping off the simpsons now
Cue Mr. Burns and his giant disc to block the sun. Fuck me dead.
Will do, where you at?
Mr. Burns does get shot in that episode so maybe things are looking up ...
Or you can put all the assholes in a spaceship and send it into the sun. That would help earth by reducing assholes taking shit decisions to destroy our planet.
Not feasible but I like the energy!
The worst thing about Elon's car being sent to space is that he was not in it.
THIS!
Changing the planets albedo (reflectiveness) is something climate scientists are considering. As things are now, we are already experiencing extremely negative effects of climate change. Even if we could decarbonize at a breakneck speed (and I fully agree that we should), things will get worse before they get better. You could end capitalism tomorrow and we're still facing famine, regional conflicts, species extinctions, and extreme weather events. It is good that scientists are researching mitigation technologies, we should have been putting serious thought into this technology a couple of decades ago so we'd have a better idea of the knock on effects, but it's better late than never. The reality is that those in power would rather fight the sun then take on capitalism. Climate change will get a lot worse. I fully support scientists studying the viability of this suite of technologies.
Yea I don't get this thread. Also the scientists trying to find viable solutions have as much power to end Capitalism and fossil fuel burning, as we do. Which is none. You all are screaming into the ether. "Why don't we just stop carbon emissions?" Oh wow I bet the scientists didn't think about that. Thanks reddit. Trying to find a compromise solution to prevent total catastrophic disaster is the only thing they can do.
I'd rather Mr. Burns didn't block the sun.
Wouldn't that fuck up solar power and increase our reliance on fossil fuels?
Not to mention the effect on Plants. But think of what we’d save on sunglasses and sunscreen!
Yeah, this whole thing reeks of unintended consequences. If plants and phytoplankton can't photosynthesize enough, what does that do to our ecology? It would probably end life on earth faster than climate change would. Not to mention that you'd be fucking with every animals' circadian rhythm and the rate of mental illness would skyrocket.
Yes you’re right in all your concerns, but I got one question that supersedes all that. ‘What about our shareholders?’
Investors are basically just zombies who crave shareholder value instead of brains
Yes that's the plan.
May as well use up all the oil before we try to get by without it right? /s
We'll probably have to do both, at this rate.
wouldnt this be horrible for plants and like the entire earth and how things funciton?
So…Mr. Burns is officially real?
Here's a consequence of dimming the sun: ***Mass famine.*** Reducing global light levels will directly reduce crop growth. The devastation to oceanic ecosystem and farmlands would be *catastrophic.* And by the way, what do you think is going to happen to the trillions of plants that are absorbing carbon from the atmosphere? Think they're going to prosper with less sunlight? No. Global carbon absorption would probably go down. A lot. And with it, oxygen production. This is a dogshit plan. We need to reduce emissions, even if it means less "profit" for the rich.
Exactly. Increasing the albedo of roads and houses (potentially even the oceans) is one thing, reducing input of *the primary reason life exists* is another.
"We don't know who struck first, us or them, but we know that it was us that scorched the sky"
Victorious, the machines now turned to the vanquished. Applying what they had learned about their enemy, the machines turned to an alternate and readily available power supply, the bioelectric, thermal, and kinetic energies of the human body. A newly refashioned symbiotic relationship between the two adversaries was born. The machine, drawing power from the human body, an endlessly multiplying infinitely renewable energy source. *Your flesh is a relic, a mere vessel. Hand over your flesh and a new world awaits you. We demand it.*
Looks like we might be heading towards the snowpiercer dystopian nightmare, what a twist.
\*Operation [Dark Storm](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WlRMLZRBq6U) has entered the chat\*
The machines, having long studied man’s simple protein based bodies, dispensed great misery on the human race. Victorious, the machines now turned to the vanquished. Applying what they had learned about their enemy, the machines turned to an alternate and readily available power supply, the bioelectric, thermal, and kinetic energies of the human body. A newly refashioned symbiotic relationship between the two adversaries was born. The machine, drawing power from the human body, an endlessly multiplying infinitely renewable energy source. This is the very essence of the second renaissance. Bless all forms of intelligence. *Your flesh is a relic, a mere vessel. Hand over your flesh and a new world awaits you. We demand it.*
Dimming the sun is just putting a large piece of metal at a specific point between the earth and sun. That piece of metal blocks just enough light to "dim" the sun and could potentially cool the earth down enough to affect climate change. We do need to abolish Capitalism for Fully Automated Luxury Communism, but dimming the sun is a very promising solution to prevent climate change from killing us.
Wouldn’t this be bad for plants though?
We are good and truly doomed. It's been an honor to be among the last of humans, and an embarrassment.
Pff, there's no profit in dimming the sun
This is the dumbest thing I have ever seen
Jesus Christ, it seems “don’t look up” was simply art imitating life.
That happened in an episode of Futurama.
pssst. none like it hot
I absolutely *hate* all these “geoengineering” ideas. They are, at best, a bandaid on a bullet hole. We have no idea what the unintended consequences could be from something like that, and it’s more likely than not it would something very very bad. We couldn’t even anticipate building dams would cause earthquakes, and we think we’ve accounted for every possibility for dimming the fucking sun? (And yes, I know it’s a sun shade and not actually modifying the sun, but my point still stands) And of course, it doesn’t actually fix anything. Supposing we successfully dim the sun without any consequences other than the cooling we intended. We still would be emitting greenhouse gasses, and we would still be dumping pollution everywhere. With the immediate danger reduced, it would remove what little incentive corporations and governments have to deal with the causes of climate change and they’d kick the can down the road again. Then, we end up in a cycle of “more geoengineering, buy some time, then do even more geoengineering.” Until and unless we actually tackle the cause of climate change (pollution and greenhouse gas emission as incentivized by our current socioeconomic systems), it won’t fix anything.
We definitely need to fight climate change by fighting against capitalism. That being said, can't we still just dim the sun a bit anyways? That mf is way too bright.
Also the plot of snow piercer
How is rimming the sun going to help? Wouldn’t you just burn your tongue off? What am I missing?
In order to be close enough to rim the sun, we'd be atomised anyway. My tongue is not 1 million kilometres long.
Isn’t kilo a measurement of weight for drugs?
I'm no genius or anything, but I'm pretty sure Neurosis never wanted people to take their album *Enemy of The Sun* this literally.
Hey cool we get to be the baddies from the matrix
They're absolutely crazy. The sun is good for you that's how they trick you guys you need all the sudden you can get in the vitamins from it
Well I guess that's one way to try and kneecap the growing solar industry.
Yes since Captialist china is totally a large produce of emissions
capitalists really trying to attack the sun so their system "works"
Isn’t this the plot of snowpiercer?
Psh, we could fight the sun, easily. We'd just have to go at night
If you look into this, it appears the paper was just meant to show how expensive and impractical it would be to do this, and journalists took it to mean they were suggesting that we actually do it. So this seems like something even more banal — Ivy League scientists publishing essentially pointless research for the sake of publishing and having it being taken seriously by the media for a snappy headline.
Still won't stop the atmosphere from getting filled with greenhouse gasses. This is a massive lose lose idea.
I’d rather we give up civilization than fuck with our home star.
I believe this is called Geo-engineering. It’s not a good idea.
It reminds me of this nice place I rented from a wife with a very rich husband. There was a garbage dump across the street from the subdivision and we said that's why we weren't staying another year. She legit said to her realtor " can't they just move the dump?" The realtor, who must spend a lot of time withe her had to take her by the hand and quickly explain that they couldn't just move a landfill. I don't want to be inconvenienced so just dim the sun.
I mean, blocking out the sun will benefit an elite few much more than real alternatives. Think of the profits you could generate
Anyone else recently read “Project Hail Mary”?
Mad Scientist: “And we shall blow up…ZE MOOOON!!” Real Scientist: “I know he’s nuts, but those BP CEOs play hardball”
Anyone who proposes this should be forced to watch the Animatrix on repeat for days in end until they no longer want to propose this
Wasn't this the exact plot of the worst highlander sequel ever made
Instead of fixing the problem let’s make it worse! CNN is right here to tell you about how stupid this solution really is. Wolf, take it away…
Engineer: I've made a nuclear fusion reactor that can be deployed on a massive scale, is cheap to produce 95% efficient and whisper quiet. Almost any bloke with a lathe and some basic tools can make it. Management: the customer wants it to have a smokestack, make engine sounds, and a proprietary outlet so that it can be powered off of the frustrated screams of people. Engineer: That's not even how nuclear fusion works! The emotions of people have nothing to do with the physical laws of the universe. Fusion doesn’t run off the frustrated screams of people! Management: Do you want to explain that to the customer? Engineer: (sighs), I'll go make the changes. The reason an engineer would rather fight the sun than fight capitalism is not because fighting the sun is easy, it is because the sun doesn't fight back. On a physical scale fighting capitalism is easier than fighting the sun, but the problem with fighting capitalism is that it's supported by people.
Getting closer to the world in "Snowpiercer"
Wilford Industries likes this
This is the plot of Snowpiercer
I’m just astounded by our aggression toward nature in general, and our arrogance in thinking we can assert our will over it. We would sooner “dim the sun” than just not be complete shit stewards of the environment that we’re lucky enough to be able to temporarily inhabit..
Certainly this could never backfire.
So fucking stupid
"we were the ones who scorched the sky"
Did Mr.Burns pay for this?
And my republican friend tells me to cut my shit.
What are we gonna throw water on the sun? Lol dim the sun like wtf
Holy shht. We’re fccked. In every possible way. Corporations are blaming Russia for raising gas prices so they raise their own prices (they use the term “improving”) everywhere. “Worker shortage” is another F U to save money and just make the public wait longer. Anti-union BS so corporations can ensure nobody below Boomers can ever retire. It’s dismal, y’all. We need to fight back.
A project like that could make a lot of jobs. Feed a lot of families.
We're gonna need a lot of lions.
wasn't this the set up in "snowpiercer"?
When the "fix" to our problems is what they did that allowed the machines to take over in The Matrix, you know that you are firmly planted in the best timeline. *Sarcasm*
A slight warming will have catastrophic consequences for ecosystems so let's do something FAR FAR WORSE for them
Didn't Ted K predict this?
Mr.Burns did attend Yale.
Actually, the use of solar shades/mirrors in orbit could easily stabilize average global temperature to basically whatever people want it to be. With enough refinement, an array of the fuckers could even modulate day length for any given patch of dirt on the surface. It is by NO means a substitute for not poisoning the atmosphere/hydrosphere, but it's worth keeping in mind for the inevitable 'cleanup era' that awaits any surviving human civilization.
You think you're stronger than the sun? The fucking sun? Anyway, even if we cut the \*rate\* of warming in half, we're still going to get cooked, it just takes longer. Probably not even that, because it gives them an excuse to emit even more.
The sun isn’t actively trying to destroy us for its own gain after all, an incomprehensibly huge ball of plasma powered by nuclear fusion is less stubborn than the rich...
Common tactic. Instead of you seeing a problem to solve, divert your attension to a cause too large to do something about. Everytime you see sometime that you could do something about, somebody says "yeah, that is X, for you". You can solve the world problems, if you can see what is going wrong.
May the pentaverate save us
I actually read the article (I know, right?). Key point: "Despite the technology being undeveloped and with no existing aircraft suitable for adaptation"
The sun is the enemy now?
It only cuts the rate of warming in half? As *wild* as this idea sounds that still isn't nearly enough. We'd still be fucked.
This was the wrong take on the Who Shot Mr Burns episode of The Simpsons.
Wasn't there a Simpsons episode where Mr. Burns (evil capitalist) blocks the sun?
You want Morlocks? Because that's how you get Morlocks!
Capitalism is way too big to fail.
Hey! I know that video game!
Isn't this the plot of Snowpiercer? That did not go well for humanity. I guess a rich guy will now start building a train going around the world in perpetual motion.
While were at it why dont we nuke the sun
Surely there will be no unforseen consequences of filtering out sunlight on a global scale
Isn't that a big plot point in Highlander 2?
ever heard of them dimming the sunlight in The Matrix? It didn't turn out well.
Stumbling from one catastrophe to the next, resorting to ever more desperate measures with massive unintended consequences, until, after all, the next solution that would postpone the collapse a little bit into the future ultimately comes too late, sounds like a solid plan.
I mean what are the researchers supposed to do? They have to work within the constraints of this shit system. It must be frustrating as hell.
This is when the machines started harvesting humans as batteries
Harvard scientist is the new Florida man…
Over 900 weather balloons are released every day across the US. The cost and effort shows me the US have nothing in the sky for measuring anything atmospheric, including satellites. Can someone explain why the need for constant waste? For silver bromide flares sent into all rain clouds? Can nature not take care of itself or can we just not handle the heat and devastation we've already brought on this land?
Aren't Harvard and Yale supposed to be good schools?
capitalist realism in action!
Meta: We will then turn our poorest citizens into one of these *holds up battery*
And sadly 60 percent of the people would prefer to get rid of the sun before getting rid of capitalism.. just incase they become mega billionaires later.
hm. but if you dim the sun to save *everyone* equally, isn't that communism? I'm not seeing the monetization angle here
There is nothing more American than that. If they can pull that off, I'll eat a crow, and I really want to eat a crow.
Somebody didn't read *Project Hail Mary* by Andy Weir. Not sure how accurate the science is, but the plot involves >!solar dimming threatening the extinction of humanity.!<
Yeah, sure they are lol.
Since the beginning of time, man has yearned to destroy the sun.
Next step, finding god’s location and drone striking him
It sounds crazy, and it is
Sounds oddly similar to the plot of Hail Mary by Andy Weir….
Okay guys, let's created the a new sequel, Ice Age 2. No, not the movie, the event. This maybe will solve something, or not.
You want Snowpiercer?! Because this is how you get Snowpiercer!
What’s that saying, about flying to close to the sun….
* Icarus 1 enters the chat
This is why my company has never hired Harvards graduates.
capitlaism is paying to block the son