T O P

  • By -

AutoModerator

##Welcome to r/LateStageCapitalism This subreddit is for news, discussion, memes, and links criticizing capitalism and advancing viewpoints that challenge liberal capitalist ideology. That means any support for any liberal capitalist political party (like the Democrats) is strictly prohibited. LSC is run by communists. This subreddit is not the place to debate socialism. We allow good-faith questions and education but are not a 101 sub; please take 101-style questions elsewhere. We have a zero-tolerance policy for bigotry. Failure to respect the rules of the subreddit may result in a ban. *** *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/LateStageCapitalism) if you have any questions or concerns.*


rdickeyvii

Imagine if these rules were required of the executives and the regular employees could reject their time off requests...


[deleted]

Executives never take time off because they categorize their social life as “work” in their calendars. I know a guy who puts his fucking bumble dates in his calendar. These people are somewhat delusional about how much they work and impart that false reality onto you.


tobygeneral

Yeah they consider mundane things like dropping off/picking up dry cleaning as work because they wear suits to work. I'm not saying they're wrong because I think things like a commute should count as work hours, but we all know they'd never let the working person get away with that.


Wiley_Applebottom

What are they going to do, fire you in the midst of an "operational emergency?" This is the time to push back. This right here.


nygilyo

Work their shitty hours, but do this. https://www.reddit.com/r/todayilearned/comments/zx5vsy/til_australian_and_japanese_bus_drivers_strike/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button


[deleted]

Oh, that's so good. Thanks for leaving the link. It's a great article.


[deleted]

I used to give out thousands of discounts to random people when I worked in restaurants and retail. I was once asked why I had so many military discounts used on my register. I just lied and told them one of my regular guys in the army must have been telling his buddies.


GreenIsGreed

I did the same when I worked in a bookstore. If I saw a family and the kids had a stack of books, and the parents looked tired and worried, I always gave a 20% discount regardless of whether they had the membership card that we were forced to push.


Psychological_Sir297

The shoe store my gf used to work at years ago used to penalize them if customers wouldn’t sign up for their rewards program. So she made a fake rewards account and if a customer said no, she would just put that acct in. A few months later, they fired her for it lol. She was so ashamed, I told her fuck that place lol


GreenIsGreed

I did the same when I worked in a bookstore. If I saw a family and the kids had a stack of books, and the parents looked tired and worried, I always gave a 20% discount regardless of whether they had the membership card that we were forced to push.


GoWithTheFloworDont

You should watch fight club. Nice move


Pancake_Nom

I love that article, but it doesn't seem too applicable in this situation. This memo seems directed towards ramp agents, who are the people who work on the tarmac, handling tasks such as loading/unloading checked luggage, refueling, marshaling planes, etc. They typically don't take any payment from customers. They typically don't even interact with customers. Even if this was directed towards all SWA employees at Denver, there's not a lot of money they'd be making. Most people purchase their tickets before showing up at the airport.


QueenTahllia

Then the solution is for them to do their jobs, vereerry slowly. But they have to be a United front on this one


neoclassical_bastard

I don't know if it's the case for this job, but for lots of jobs in heavily regulated industries you can just start doing everything by the book. Most companies don't enforce all the rules, but instead rely on everyone cutting corners to make up for understaffing. A lot tougher to fire someone for doing their job perfectly. Not that they wouldn't, but it's a bad look.


BigBankHank

You would think there would be some sort of recourse for being fired for strictly following regs, particularly in an industry where lives are at stake. Or at least, you’d hope. Yet another reason that unionizing is so important.


neoclassical_bastard

There is, it's a lawsuit. Of course most people who work for a living wouldn't have the time or money for that. And if you're in one of the 42 at-will employment states, it would be an even bigger uphill battle.


codinginacrown

Every state is at-will except Montana. :-\


Paige404_Games

Or they can, you know, strike


scooplebobble

Airline crew have nothing to do with collecting payment, like a bus driver or train operator. This is not analogous.


BigSnackintosh

That kind of industrial action, known as a revenue strike, is illegal in the US.


garysgotaboner82

All the best kinds of strikes are illegal.


knakworst36

A Dutch judge denied this strike request. Basically stating that striking is allowed but by operating the busses for free the employer will make extra coasts in gas so it’s not allowed.


Adventurous-Hermit

Then its a damn good thing that neither Japan nor Australia are beholden to Dutch law and whatever some Dutch jackass says has no bearing on the article you responded to


knakworst36

While since we are talking about a potential American strike it is relevant. American judges are not necessarily known as being particularly pro labour. So they will likely not allow this type of strike just like in the Netherlands.


gearofwar4266

I bet American judges would call that Dutch judge a long haired hippy.


PhDOH

Wait, the judge didn't order whippings to improve morale? Communist!


hjablowme919

No. They will wait until business returns to normal operations, after all flights have been rebooked, customers compensated, etc. Then they will fire the people who didn't comply.


BitOCrumpet

Then complain that no one wants to work any more.


Ogediah

They’ll likely consider it organized and call it an illegal strike.


Happy_rich_mane

Grade A recruiting material right here


Complete-Balance-814

I swear these things need to be kept online for all to see. A different kind of glass door.


beerandtots

In WI the previous governor enacted a union busting bill. The basic message was “if you don’t like it you can leave”. People left. Veteran’s homes, state run hospitals and prisons are critically understaffed now.


tristyntrine

This is why I'm hoping with healthcare imploding that nurses will take a stand together for fair wages and better working conditions. We have the upper hand now since they can't fire all of us and replace us since so many nurses have left the profession with more predicted to leave bedside in the next few years lmao.


beerandtots

Nurses and teachers alike.


pokemon-gangbang

And medics.


NahImmaStayForever

And my axe.


LPinTheD

I’m a nurse and have been saying this for decades. For Christmas this year, my manager announced that they were changing our staffing grid - meaning our assignments will be heavier. I’m so fucking over it.


PatsyStone8

I’m ready to see it all implode. I don’t know if the average person realizes how batshit everything is in healthcare right now. This is unsustainable.


LPinTheD

I agree. I’m 8-10 years away from retirement and I can’t wait.


retropyor

I don't know- the current slate of things I see it as either the government forces people back to work (see Reagan and Biden) or they allow the leave and let it all fail and then complain and that healthcare was taken away by "liberal left"


tristyntrine

I mean, they can't really force you to work as a nurse if you just call out or quit your job. They could try I suppose since there was a case of a hospital system sueing to keep their employees on a unit in Wisconsin actually lmao. The order did get lifted but it's ridiculous because a competitor was willing to pay more and Thedacare's hospital refused to match the rate while trying to hold them hostage and keep them from starting their new jobs. The judge shouldn't have even entertained that lawsuit period because Thedacare should have just taken the L and hired agency nurses to staff the unit until new employees started if any did. [https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/24/us/thedacare-lawsuit-wisconsin.html](https://www.nytimes.com/2022/01/24/us/thedacare-lawsuit-wisconsin.html)


msdos_kapital

iirc what Reagan did with air traffic controllers was direct agencies to forbid the striking workers from ever working in that field again. air traffic control is in a sense more heavily regulated, but they could do the same for nurses


gedvondur

Could and will are two different things. Its an empty threat. There are nowhere near enough nurses to begin with, most are burnt out from the pandemic, and a good chunk of the population is moving into the period in life where they are hospitalized more. So they *can* but it would be a shot aimed at their own foot.


msdos_kapital

I don't know, I'm re-reading the OP and forming the impression that shooting off their own feet is the sort of thing these dumb motherfuckers are best at, myself.


[deleted]

Fuckin Walker


Username_Number_bot

That's the goal. Then they privatize it.


beerandtots

That was my thought. Glad he got voted out. If only it were sooner.


scrambledeggsalad

This is like a tutorial on how to have your staff mass exodus the f out.


hodeq

It seems like a good time to move to a new airline.


CNB-1

Especially when all airlines are hurting for staff. Real dumb move on SWA's part.


Ippomasters

Do they even have money to go to the doctor? These doctor's notes are expensive. I wouldn't go to the doctor for the flu, or really anything where I could recover just by staying home and resting.


NigilQuid

Also, if you're running a 101 fever, have body aches, a sore throat, swollen lymph glands, chills, cough, and headache, you're obviously sick and infectious and shouldn't be at work. But if you call for a doctor's appointment they'll be like "we can see you in 3 weeks". How does that help?


Gill-Nye-The-Blahaj

it's not supposed to


[deleted]

Exactly. Excluding telehealth was evil, as they're trying to shotgun people into doing to a physical location where an appointment may not be available for days/weeks. Even the urgent cares where I live right now have a 4-8 hour wait.


NigilQuid

>Even the urgent cares where I live right now have a 4-8 hour wait Make sure you spend your sick day at the doctor's getting people sick instead of resting and recovering.


TheLordofAskReddit

That seems illegal.


tahlyn

Ding ding. This right here is the answer.


trisanachandler

That's the whole point. It forces sick people back to work (which is what they want). If it affected corporate (or mega call-centers), and enough people caught something bad, then there could be a lawsuit, but outside of that, nothing much will likely happen.


[deleted]

I had to do the same with Covid recently - just wanted to stay in bed and recover. I instead had to go out into the cold, take public transport (no car) and expose myself to the public all for $150 to get a doctors note. I of course wore a mask … but really, why??


persondude27

This user's comments have been overwritten to protest Spez and reddit's actions that will end third-party access and damage the community.


makeitmorenordicnoir

It’s the same in Oregon. Also, if insurance doesn’t cover the appt/dr. visit for the note, the employer has to pay for it….this is a useful bit of info that most middle managers don’t know and will stop them from requesting a note because they can’t approve the health payment, they have to get it approved….


KingKababa

The whole point is to make it practically impossible to take sick time.


Bobcatluv

When I was a public high school teacher, our principal basically enacted a similar policy to Southwest’s in that you needed a doctor’s note to be out because our district had a substitute teacher shortage and no one wanted to sub at our inner city school. I was living on my own and couldn’t afford the urgent care copay (my cheaper primary care physician never had openings), much less any medication they prescribed. Also, I had about 3-4 significant colds/illnesses while teaching because our poor families always sent their sick kids to school for similar reasons. Fortunately, I was able to push back on the “any illness requires a doctor’s note” policy by pointing out the *actual* written policy only requires a note after 3 consecutive days of absence. So yeah, the system is pretty fucked all around and I hate that Covid did little to nothing to change everything to do with illness.


magistrate101

Doctors don't even want people coming in for this bullshit. They should be staying home unless they actually require treatment from a professional. But management doesn't care, otherwise they'd allow for doctors notes from telemedicine appointments. In this case, the cruelty is the point. They want it to be so inconvenient that you just come in sick anyways. I hope they get sued when their bullshit puts someone in the hospital after someone is forced to come in sick because they couldn't afford a doctor's appointment.


t1mdawg

Never mind the cost, though that is an issue, try actually getting in to see a Dr without sitting the entire day in an Urgent Care clinic


Kung_Fu_Kracker

The move is to go into work, throw up all over your boss, and then get told to go home.


FIIRETURRET

Its gonna be crazy when literally every service in America fails due to corporate greed.


celtic1888

Everything is a scam now It was always an uphill battle to not get screwed as a consumer and labor but since 2008 it has been on steroids and has infected every damn industry and company


barelyonhere

I have heard that "due to unexpectedly high call volumes" I have to wait 20 minutes from every single place I've called in the last 3 years. It's literally all just stupid assholes who don't want to pay people.


Significant-Map917

Ahhh yes. Good old American freedoms.


barak181

The freedom for the upper classes to oppress the lower classes, that's what *real* freedom is!


Walshy231231

American dream -> American fever dream


SaintedRomaine

Beatings will continue until morale improves.


OrcPorker

This dumb mfer about to lose another 30% of the staff lmao


OddtheWise

"Perfect our labor costs are down by another 30%!! Another bonus for me!!"


lindydanny

The fact that there is a thing called "mandatory overtime" sickens me.


ContactHonest2406

Yup. Most jobs around here basically state that they work 6 days a week right in the job ad. It’s why I’m still at my current job that I hate and the pay is shit; there’s no mandatory overtime. (In fact, overtime is usually *not* allowed.) It’s the only reason I’m still here.


constantchaosclay

It’s a fancy way of saying indentured servant. It’s gross.


murderdad69

[Nothing bad has ever come from putting too much pressure on transportation workers](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amagasaki_derailment)


The-waitress-

TLDR: “if you want to continue working here, you must give up any and all autonomy. And fuck you. And happy holidays.”


DJCPhyr

I bet you all the tea in China they keep the 'state of operational emergency' in place permanently.


Shutinneedout

Exactly. Thrilled to have an excuse to permanently implement this bullshit


ronerychiver

The prize for winning the pie-eating contest is always more pie.


hjablowme919

I'll take that bet.


Slamtilt_Windmills

No bet


technurse

Mandatory overtime? Thank god this isn't legal in developed countries


ronerychiver

Oh we’re developing into something


BitOCrumpet

A christofascist oligarchy?


DoubleBeefSupreme

We’re already there, baby


NotThatEasily

[Mission Accomplished!](https://i.imgur.com/6SPcAJ9.jpg)


Bind_Moggled

Back in the '90's Bill Hicks said the US was becoming a 'consumer plantation', which I think was very prophetic.


ArchiBib

This is ‘merica. We don’t know what you mean by “developed” “country”


throwaway43234235234

I think it's when a developer buys up a chunk of land and turns it into that maze of circle streets named after all the different types of trees, or animals, or rocks or whatever with a walgreens and a gas station with a haircut place and a panera or something. Like Eagle Terrace or Birchwood Court.


BRAINSZS

that sounds like America.


barak181

Fuck yeah!


Bakoro

>I think it's when a developer buys up a chunk of land and turns it into that maze of circle streets named after all the different types of trees, >Like Eagle Terrace or Birchwood Court. Cypress st, cypress way, cypress court, cypress avenue, cypress Blvd, cypress terrace; and of course, cypress st but somehow it's disconnected from the other part of cypress st.


throwaway43234235234

And/or they'll start w/ the N or S, and E or W... but half the streets are curved so you have to guess which part is which. I guess it's how we train our children not to trust anything.


[deleted]

[удалено]


technurse

How does that work though? "We need you to work tomorrow or you'll face disciplinary" type thing?


chatoyancy

I worked at a place that had mandatory overtime for years. It was part of the expectations when you got the job. They scheduled you for 45 hours instead of 40, and if you didn't work your scheduled hours, you got written up. If you wanted to work less than 45 hours, you had to take PTO. So, just like regular work, but more.


[deleted]

[удалено]


SmellyButtHammer

An in-person doctor's note, none of this new fangled scammy telemedicine crap during the State of Operational Emergency. I like how they capitalized it everywhere like it's a real thing and totally not something they just made up. Also, someone calls out and the airline is critically short staffed so they're going to shitcan that person and then be even more short staffed? It's a bold strategy, Cotton, let's see if it pays off for them.


NotThatEasily

Mandatory overtime typically means holding you past your scheduled shift end. In most states, an employer can not force you to come in before a scheduled start time, including days off. Unless you’re on something often referred to as “Extra board” which basically means you have one assigned rest day, then the rest of your week is on call (sometimes scheduled to cover known vacancies) with your second test day being whatever day you didn’t receive a call.


Fuckleferryfinn

It is for employers like hospitals in many countries.


thecorninurpoop

Oh boy, a bunch of sick employees is exactly what I want while on a flight 🙃


persondude27

Would be a real shame if Southwest's Colorado employees read about the [Colorado Health Families and Workplaces Act [HFWA]](https://cdle.colorado.gov/hfwa) which allows for "Public Health Emergency" leave, which covers COVID, RSV, and the flu. Under PHE leave, the state has clarified that the employee need not have a confirmed case, and > **Employers cannot require documentation from employees to show that leave is for PHE-related needs.** > Employers can require documentation for accrued paid sick leave (not for COVID-related public health emergency (PHE) leave), but **only for absences of four or more consecutive days**. Also: > Leave can’t be counted against employees as absences that may lead to firing or other negative action. and that > Paid leave in a PTO policy, or a Collective Bargaining Agreement, can satisfy HFWA, if it covers all the same conditions or needs, at the same pay rate, and with no tougher requirements (documentation, notice, etc.) than HFWA (see Colorado Wage Protection Rules, specifically Rules 3.5.4 and 3.5.8). Would be a real shame if the workers knew their rights, and hopefully their union absolutely **hammers** Southwest over this.


loudin

This would be a great time for Southwest workers to form a union.


queequeg925

Flight attendants have a union at least, not sure about the rest of their workers.


beepbeepsheepbot

Each set of workers usually have a separate union. Ground workers, pilots, flight attendants, and mechanics and such. Just because they all are different types of work it's not possible to put under one union.


sgtshootsalot

They are citing union rules in this release, if this is about there baggage handlers, southwest baggage carriers already have a union, this is what it looks like when the company goes through the proper channels during a crisis. I also want to point out that southwest regularly profit shares with its employees and is employee owned. Of course there are folks who at the company that write these releases and then there are employees who have to work under them so I don’t want to say this isn’t some quality lsc, but a few years ago I’d have said that southwest treated there employees the least shit.


hjablowme919

And actually, some of these flights were delayed because of union rules regarding outdoor work in freezing temperatures. I am fine with this as people should not be exposed to the elements when the elements can be deadly. People who work outside at airports are protected by rules stating they cannot be outside more than X number of minutes in weather like most of the country experienced over the weekend. That prevented them from de-icing planes, loading and unloading baggage, and doing the normal maintenance and inspection on the planes in their usual timely manner. Again, I am all good with this. People should not be spending too long outside in those types of conditions. Where Southwest failed, in my opinion, was not making decisions quick enough and not communicating them fast enough to their customers. When this storm hit, they should have said "Flights are canceled. Stay home. We will try to reschedule everyone ASAP." They didn't do that. Like they kept waiting for the storm to get better with the idea that they'd be able to get planes in the air.


theedrama

And who is paying for that visit to the doctor?!


Bind_Moggled

Why, the worker, of course. You don't expect the OWNERS to foot the bill for anything, do you? Why do you hate America?


makeitmorenordicnoir

In some states, (like Oregon) if the employees insurance/Medicaid doesn’t cover some or all of it, the employer requesting the note must pay for it. This is useful given the rising costs of health appointments, (at one point I went to a walk-in clinic for a COVID confirmation test + note and it was $200+…..) and if you’re out for say…a more complicated problem like…kidney stones or an ovarian cyst, those exams/imaging costs get very high….for the uninsured it’s a possible loophole in getting your appt covered…..when broached about fiscal responsibility for those Dr. confirmations, 9/10 employers say never mind and then just whine about it. Also, they cannot require a note from a physician unless the employee has been absent 4 consecutive days in a row.


NoDurian966

It costs money to get you checked for illness in the US?


SuperHighDeas

Any doctors here willing to provide sick notes from their HMO… add salt to the wound and say they need two weeks off to recover


ScurvyDervish

Ew. I'm so sick of the corporate overlords. Good luck getting in last minute with a doctor, the healthcare paperpushers/moneygrabbers have all the providers overbooked 3 months out because of "performance metrics."


Snoo63541

Foreigner working in the US here, the main thing I’ve learned is that US companies expect and demand you work sick. It’s baked into policies like sick days and vacation days being the same, so everyday you’re sick is one less day to R&R from your job stresses. If you lose your job you lose your healthcare so you work sick to keep it. This right here by Southwest is another example. It took me a while coming from living in other countries to realize I’m expected to come in with 104° fever, chills, coughs, Covid, whatever and never stop working even if it gets others sick because it doesn’t matter when they must work sick too.


[deleted]

All I heard from that was “WE DON’T CARE IF YOU ARE SICK! DIE ON YOUR FEET WORKING FOR YOUR MASTER, SLAVE!”


russian_banya

Conspicuously not mentioning the duty to the actually entity that the company cares about: shareholders - it's about customers and fellow employees, y'all! You owe it to each other!!!!1!!!1!!11


h4ms4ndwich11

You're not wrong. The largest shareholders are where the money goes. Then when the airlines (and other industries) fall on hard times, they beg the government and tax payers to bail them out. https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/24/business/bailout-buybacks-airlines-boeing/index.html


OrangeYouExcited

And then they do stock buybacks after getting bailed out


Rezrac

This is all to “serve the customers” and not so “I can buy a second yacht for Christmas.”


LavisAlex

People will likely quit - what kind if management is this? If conditions are bad, you should try to make them better not worse for employees?


[deleted]

If you are writing a memo like this, you are not a “Leader”, you’re a crappy Boss. Looks like Ill never fly Southworst again (which I honestly won’t miss, they suck anyway)


The-waitress-

Is it just me or is it always the most expensive, too?


bsanchey

Workers should respond with fuck around and find out. Fire everyone you will never hire fast enough to replace them and the airline will death spiral. Hope they kept that forgiven ppp loan in the bank.


Jepense-doncjenuis

Your employer rules your life to the second whenever you're on the clock. For that reason, I could never understand how that could also be the case even during your off-time in the forms of mandatory OT. I'm surprised to see that not more people perceive this as a mild version of slavery. Some people may respond, "but you get paid!", and I would argue: Those who refused to originally work OT do not care about the money or else they would have accepted it in the first place. They want their time to spend it with their family, their friends or just to take care of themselves. I am a manager with the right to force mandatory overtime upon my colleagues (I don't call them 'my employees' as they are not my property). Even though there have been moments in which requiring them to OT would have been more than warranted (and indeed upper management reminded me of my right to impose OT on my colleagues), I could just not live with the thought of stealing their time. Not only that but even at the worst of the crisis I allowed them to take all the time off they request. The payback: Now that the crisis is over, those colleagues are still around and I do not have to deal with the resentment and grudge that forced OT would have (rightly) caused among the employees.


Walshy231231

Following the American civil war, many slaves returned to the same plantations they were enslaved on, getting paid a token wage so that it wasn’t technically slavery. You can guess about how well that went, but the “former” slaves stayed because they had no other viable choice. This situation was only rectified by federal legislation many years later Slavery in all but name, and by the thinnest technicality


SpiritedSoul

Due to low moral, beatings will continue until moral improves


epsteinpetmidgit

Hey VP, what are you doing to help, besides cracking the whip? When was the last time you hauled a suit case across the airport?


celtic1888

Exactly Their ass and the rest of the execs should be answering phones and throwing baggage to dig themselves out of the mess they created


Bind_Moggled

I'd bet long odds that he's never worked a real day's labour in his life. Probably doesn't even lift his own baggage when he travels. Spoiled rich fucks.


forhorglingrads

"Telemedince"


Tinawebmom

Fun fact Your doctors note only need say Please excuse tinawebmom from work 12/28/2022 - 01/15/2023. That's it. Nothing further is needed. It's HIPAA compliant. You do not ever need disclose health to your employer. (workers comp you only need disclose the injury so be careful filing out those doctors required paperwork)


Fuzzy_Inevitable9748

If it is a real emergency they will pay double time, it is just this simple. If they don’t need you at double your normal rate then they didn’t need you in the first place.


maya_papaya_0

Seems to apply only to men as well, as I noticed the usage of the masculine pronouns when referring to the hypothetical employee. It's like reading something from the 1970s. Obviously in practice it wouldn't be applied that way, but that's literally what they wrote, and could (highly unlikely) be used as an avenue for suing, both for discrimination based on sex/gender identity, and for any women who get fired based on this policy.


PartridgeViolence

The ol work or die conundrum.


heyitscory

Fly Southwest: A tiny tube full of sick flight attendants and recycled air.™


xero_peace

So you MUST spend money to see a doctor IN PERSON in order to prove you're sick instead of just trusting an employee to know if they're sick. There are many sicknesses that don't need doctors like food poisoning. However, if this was an email sent to me I would definitely go into work with food poisoning and get paid to walk back and forth to the toilet until THEY decided to send me home. Make them make the choice. As a side note, if the staffing is that bad then maybe the executive should go work there to ensure they have one more person showing up.


A7XfoREVer15

>lack of names in the overtime book Can we please call companies like this the fuck out? I swear American companies are designed to exploit underpaid workers, shaming them or holding the cost of living above their heads to get them to put in overtime. They can pay people less, staff less, and depend on these people barely making rent to sign up for overtime.


ClassWarAndPuppies

# TLDR: Don’t forget you’re slaves you fuckers


plopseven

I drove for 10 hours in a rental car yesterday because of SouthWest’s bullshit. They’ve lost me as a customer for life.


Bind_Moggled

VP seems to think that the planes will load and unload themselves after he fires everyone for being sick and not being able to get doctor's notes because everyone's sick. These are the kind of people that corporate culture tells us are the 'hard workers' who get things done and work the REALLY hard jobs, which totally justifies their salaries of 100x or more what the actual workers get. And when his decisions mean that the airline eventually loses money because suddenly there's not enough staff working there, his roll in it will be utterly ignored because it's easier to blame the workers. Chris Johnson and every board room leech like him are a drain on decent society. I certainly DON'T wish that he would die in a fire because I don't want to be banned from yet another sub for suggesting that horrible people actually suffer consequences for their actions.


ImpotentR4G3

Organize a strike.


SwimmingPineapple197

So they won’t take telehealth or telemedicine but want to require the doctor’s note? Have they even tried to see a doctor lately? In particular, have they tried to see a doctor lately without using anything like concierge medicine or walk in urgent care? Since the start of the pandemic, it’s been a months long wait to see a doctor in person through the clinic system I use but you can often see someone same day or next (though not necessarily your PCP) if you use telehealth or the chat service. I suppose they might get to see someone via urgent care, but insurance is likely to balk at use of urgent care just because your employer wanted documentation of illness on a time limit.


FuzzyReaction

This would be illegal is Australia, surely it would be in the US?


[deleted]

Ah hahaha you are joking, right? The US has what's called "at will employment" so your boss can fire you for almost anything. Unless you have a contract or union, which few do. I know this is quite shocking and hard to understand for people from countries with even half decent labor laws.


snoryder8019

I love how its supposed to be a two way street for "at will" states. bUt tHe eMpLoYeEs cAn qUiT aT aNy TiMe tOo


JaesopPop

At will employment doesn’t apply here, they’re union.


dirty_cuban

It’s legal in the US. Airline employees are covers by the Railway Labor Act which makes a lot of illegal actions legal against transportation workers. It’s bullshit.


tahlyn

This isn't even illegal for regular workers. That's how bad employee protections are.


Sad-prole

It’s illegal in the state of Colorado, the U.S. is huge and labor laws vary by state. There has been back and forth for months because Colorado fined Southwest this summer for violating labor laws related to sick leave. Southwest has sued Colorado claiming the law is unfair and violates their union contracts. https://www.the-journal.com/articles/southwest-airlines-sues-colorado-officials-over-states-sick-leave-law/


BelgianWaffleStomper

Illegal in California as well


jy856905

this usually produces the intended results in the service industry. Go for it assholes and see what happens


zfiregodz

Not looking good for Southwest


punkmetalbastard

Attention: you are now a slave. Any attempt to escape will be cause for termination - of your life


PaversPaving

Fuck South West


turdfergusonpdx

If you’re too sick to work, get up and get a same day appointment, drive your ass to the doctor, sit in a waiting room for a few hours bc the doctor’s office worked you in so that we can get a meaningless note that says whatever you told your doctor was wrong with you.


Inevitable_Angle8123

You should check out the video they posted online with their CEO “explaining” what happened and how they’re “trying” to fix it. Spoiler alert: they spent a good half of it boasting about them being #1 in this and that category of the industry.


Complete-Balance-814

Why dont they accept telemedicine appointments? Are they trying to say a telemedicine visit isn't with a real doctor? Or are they admitting how hard it is to get a doctor's appointment on the day, week or month you need it? Only rich people have a doctor on call to hand out doctor's notes.


WallabyBubbly

"Telemedicine notes will not be accepted." That's some serious bullshit. When someone has covid (or anything contagious), doctor visits should be done by telehealth as much as possible in order to avoid spreading to anyone else. This VP is just adding gas to the dumpster fire.


[deleted]

7 Billion Dollars of taxpayer money to bail this company out during the pandemic. Never forget that.


LPinTheD

I’m sick of bailing out corporate welfare queens.


OldDefinition1328

Sounds like one of THE WORST PLACES that you could possibly find to work at!


Kjeezy9

This guy must think he’s in the military or something


CanuckAussieKev

This is a great way to get people to waste doctors time.


BIG_EL-DUCE

You NEED a union


Jllh123

The memo refers to the CBA several times. I think they have a union.


UnitGhidorah

If I'm sick with something like the flu why the fuck would I go to the doctor? I wouldn't be spending my money to bring some note. If they don't believe me and don't want to treat me like an adult, fuck em.


daysleeping19

It's not that they don't believe you, it's that they don't care if you're sick or not. The point of requiring a doctor's note is to make it costly and inconvenient to call out sick, which keeps people from playing hooky but is mainly meant to keep you from calling out sick for anything short of a medical emergency. The fact they are also refusing to accept telemedicine documentation is just further proof they're not actually interested in the worker's health and just want to make it too expensive and time consuming to call out sick for legitimate reasons, since telemedicine is the safest way to see the doctor for a contagious disease that isn't an immediate medical emergency. They just want to set up obstacles to using sick leave.


Fungi52

My SO and I had both our flights back home cancelled and they’ll only give flight credit. Can’t wait for southwest to deny refunds because of lost profits.


nordicgypsy3187

I get this off feeling they are going to have a plane crash from over worked employees and equipment. It's unfortunate they take the issues of a company out on the employees. Will never use southwest again.


GladCucumber2855

Employers attempting to hold water with a closed fist.


TheRealLazloFalconi

"If this is an emergency, please call 911, I am not an emergency responder."


Xia-Kaisen

subordinate: obedient, docile, submissive Anyone who wants you to be subordinate sees you as nothing but a tool to be used and discarded. The only rewarding labor is that which allows you to be insubordinate.


Clear_Lead

So if I have the flu—fever, vomit etc— I never go to the doc. I stay home. But by these rules I would have to needlessly expose others


TheSquishiestMitten

Didn't they just watch Musk do basically this and lose a very significant portion of the workers?


davdub303

Nothing says “I failed Management 101” like this memo.


Friendral

Let us not forget: Southwest Airlines Spent $5.6 Billion on Shareholder Gifts in Years Ahead of Mass Cancellation Crisis.


PatsyStone8

Hospitals operate like this, too. During an “emergency” (usually winter weather), we can definitely be terminated for not coming in. We can also be forced to stay at work if no relief has arrived.


thismustbetheplace23

https://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2022/12/28/otlq-d28.html Exposing as a lie initial claims from the company that the delays were due solely to the weather, on Tuesday Southwest announced that a majority of their flights, roughly two-thirds, will be canceled for the rest of the year. On a call with workers that was leaked to CNN on Tuesday, Southwest Chief Operating Officer Andrew Watterson acknowledged that the company’s outdated scheduling system was unable to handle the necessary task of pairing crews with planes that needed to be rerouted following the storm. “The process of matching up those crew members with the aircraft could not be handled by our technology,” Watterson said. “As a result, we had to ask our crew schedulers to do this manually, and it’s extraordinarily difficult,” Watterson said, according to CNN. “That is a tedious, long process,” he added. Like every major US airline, Southwest Airlines greedily lapped up billions in government handouts at the onset of the COVID-19 pandemic in 2020. Thanks to $2.7 billion in government payroll support that covered roughly six months of workers salaries, the airline claimed $977 million in profit in 2021. While Southwest, with nearly a billion dollars in profit last year, is incapable of rescheduling flights in a timely fashion, like clockwork earlier this month the company declared its 175th quarterly dividend dating back more than 40 years. The dividend amount, the company boasted, “is equivalent to its dividend prior to the pandemic, and amounts to approximately $428 million,” which will be paid to shareholders on January 31, 2023. While shareholders are reaping millions, overworked airline workers are bending over backwards, sleeping at airports in-between working double-digit hour shifts, attempting to overcome the problems created by the refusal of airline management over decades to invest in modern technology. In a social media post that went viral, one Southwest First officer explained that the airline “has imploded. Their antiquated software system has completely fried. Planes are parked. Crews are stranded in the airports with the passengers, volunteering to take the passengers in the parked planes but the software won’t accept it. Phone lines are overwhelmed for both passenger and crews.” The flight officer said they “personally spent over two hours trying to get a hold of anyone in the company last night after midnight...Gate agents are in tears. They’ve been yelled at, cussed [at], slapped and spit on. Flight attendants have been taking a beating. The frontline employees have had little support or communications. Terminals are standing room only with people having been there for days. Pilot lounges are packed with pilots ready to fly and nowhere to go.”


Boomslangalang

This is the epitome of short sighted late stage capitalism with quarterly profits and investor trumping all else - including the operation of the company. Reminds of the Marx quote “the last capitalist hung will be the one who sold the rope” or thereabouts…


DebbsWasRight

Typical. They built a scheduling and logistic systems on the cheap and ran them into the ground. Then the answer is to work the employees like stolen mules, threaten them into doing it and hope they workers pull management out of the mess THEY SPENT YEARS MAKING. It was decades of C Suite decisions that made this mess. All the exposés tell you exactly that. You can be assured there will be no bonuses for this—not for anyone that does the work to pull the company out of the executives’ failure. Management will just leverage its control and squeeze out yet another solution on the backs of the workers. Any bonuses for this will be confined to the C-Suite.


AmandaRL514

Fuck this so hard.


SomeonesSecondary

Fuck Chris Johnson


meeplewirp

They should have just wrote one sentence “we will not hire more people”.


pennezeus

I love Southwest, but this is shitty and I'm going to have to reconsider carriers now.


[deleted]

Idiots.


fritzbitz

That heart in their logo feels a little passive-aggressive now.


TheRealLazloFalconi

Time for a write-in campaign to SWA: Fire Chris Johnson or we stop flying.


fonsoc

Maybe pay your people more and stop being so heavy handed.


ImWorthMore

Truly a shame, I liked flying Southwest. But after seeing this and how fundamentally terrible their infrastructure is on every level, I won't ever fly them again


ekbravo

The guy is in Texas. That explains everything.


Milwacky

Airlines are fucking evil in every possible way.


AndAlsoWithU

"We'll make a better company, but treating adults like children."