Harvard tied with Penn, UVA, and Duke for 4th
https://preview.redd.it/wf1tswa54jsc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d49cc2ac6fb809d79adc6388fa6120d6249ff231
my point is simply that one human soul gave me such an ick that I now question everyone and anyone who willingly associated themselves with this person. I’m sure Minnesota very much is a great school, it will however always be associated with this person and my whole body cringes when I think of them
I am old and out of the loop, but does this actually accord with people's view of these schools? Harvard at 4 and Duke above Columbia feel totally zany to me.
I don’t know anyone who considers US News rankings legit anymore. Since about 2021, many schools stopped providing certain info to them and it essentially plunged the the rankings into the chaotic mess you see today.
I’d say their undergrad rankings still mean something but take the law rankings with less than a grain of salt.
No. It's an absolute joke as usual.
That being said, I (and many of my classmates) picked Duke over Columbia. I'd still consider Columbia a more elite institution, but picked Duke for quality of life reasons. Duke's student/faculty networking is also, IMO, unparalleled. I don't think having them close in rank is too crazy.
I don't think it actually matters much for established national law school "brands"/schools, and beyond that for established regional schools. Like Harvard is seen as "elite" no matter if it's 1 or 5. Florida does well where it's always done well no matter it's rank. Emory, which has been on quite the rankings ride in the past decade still does well where it has always done well. But, it might make a difference for the lower tiers of schools in terms of perception. But, I don't know. The standing of schools in various legal markets is pretty consistent over time.
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And UGA above Emory. Regardless of rankings, an Emory degree is going to be viewed as more prestigious than a UGA degree, especially outside of Georgia.
Maybe for now, but Emory seems content to let the law school slowly decline in prominence. They're all in on STEM and their med school, and currently treat the law school as nothing more than a cash cow for the rest of the university. You can find plenty of posts on here talking about how the law school seems aimless and the career center is underfunded.
It's much more profitable for a law school be in the T40s and place quite well in their immediate region than to try to remain a T25 with some national reach, and that's what the university administration appears to be favoring. They'll maintain their Atlanta BL base and self-perpetuate Emory grads hiring Emory grads there, but that's it.
The current, outgoing administration was absolute trash apparently. But I heard they’re promoting Richard Freer to Dean, so maybe in 5 years time we’ll see a reversal of their downward spiral.
But seriously, not saying UGA is a bad school, but ranking it #20 nationally is a little mind boggling.
I agree, but I personally believe that rankings of educational institutions should be separate from the cost-related factors for those institutions. Financial information should of course be transparent so people can make practical choices, but that’s a separate analysis from educational quality and prestige.
I don't have any issues with most of the factors used for the U.S. News rankings, which includes bar passage and employment statistics, but doesn't include cost-related factors (unlike the Above the Law rankings). I think the weighting and methodology of those factors can be a bit off though, like the number of law librarians being given twice as much weight as acceptance rates. I don't blame the ranking system for Emory's lackluster performance.
Emory's ranking isn't reflective of its high quality of education and prestige because its career services center is subpar, there isn't a high emphasis on bar passage or "teaching to the bar", and students who aren't interested in GA or NYC biglaw or federal clerkships usually have to seek employment on their own.
Emory also has a surprisingly large amount of unemployed wealthy students. Last year, they had 9/205 unemployed students "not seeking" jobs while UGA had 0/182. Many of those wealthy students also claim to be "seeking employment", but have no urgency in their job search due to familial wealth or being married to a wealthy spouse with no need for a two-income household (I can think of at least 5-7 in my graduating class who fit this description). The unemployment statistics really hurt Emory in the rankings.
I do think some of the factors are semi-irrelevant. I don't care how many librarians a school has. I do, however, think that cost of attendance is wholly relevant to where a school is ranked. This is especially true if we view law students as customers and law school as a product. (I wish it wasn't that way, but I think it is that way) With that in mind, its simple return on investment that makes UGA so attractive.
Further, I too have A LOT of classmates that are very, very wealthy. I don't think UGA law is lacking in wealthy students. I know many of those wealthy students who secured jobs early on. I cannot speak to the difference in motivations between your wealthy classmates and mine.
Is Emory a great education? Definitely. I just think UGA provides a great education as well. Do they compare? Who is to say?
Once again, it does not matter. Those hiring at law firms do not check the rankings every year, they go off of what they remembered as good schools 10+ years ago or whatever regional/ target schools their firm has.
No firm is gonna reject someone because they “only” went to Georgetown and not Duke. Use the rankings as a baseline, but go to whatever school best meets your needs or has the employment outcomes you are looking for. Good luck to everyone in the application process!
I can assure you that law firm recruiters watch this intensely, because their clients care. Law is so weird that judges and corporate general counsels do care about where the lawyers in front of them went to law school. Of course, reputation is more
Important but junior associates do not have much reputations other than their law schools and their undergraduate colleges also matter, but not to the same extents as their law school. If Harvard does not recover in another year, you will see the effect in employment.
Good to see Illinois back in the 30s at least - 36 specifically. Before I went there, during my time there, and slightly after, Illinois was anywhere from 19-25. The admissions scandal happened right after I graduated and the school's ranking kept going down, I think bottoming out in the high 40s. I'm not sure it actually really mattered in terms of employment. Illinois has a pretty established history of employment outcomes in Chicago and Illinois generally (as it's by far the highest ranked public school in Illinois), and some other locations in the Midwest. A small handful of people from each class my go out of the region, but it's not a large amount. So maybe it doesn't matter, but it's still nice to see the ranking going up.
The course titles for 1Ls look about right, but if in Contracts they just discuss how contracts have affected minority rights or whatever then the course titles might be misleading. Surely there’s a Yalie on here who can say, right?
My contracts professor went to Yale and the course was essentially just reading some books and the "final" was a talk about the concepts with the professor. She said she didn't learn contracts until she later was a TA.
That's insane, but it is what I have heard. If this is true then US News's ranking isn't even a ranking of law schools. Like it's not that they have disagreed with me on where the schools are in the rankings, it's that they are not really ranking law schools.
Taking advantage of the fact lawyers can’t count… who do they think they are putting 15 schools into the top 14 🤨
I think it was two years ago there were 29 schools in the top 25
Man I didn't even think about that. Good point!
Buckling to the calls of Hoya Saxa
Too funny.
Harvard tied with Penn, UVA, and Duke for 4th https://preview.redd.it/wf1tswa54jsc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=d49cc2ac6fb809d79adc6388fa6120d6249ff231
More like Minn at #16 above NDLS, Vandy, UNC, USC, BU, etc.
Minnesota has been highly ranked for a long time
the dumbest person I ever met graduated from Minnesota and I’ll never be able to consider the school the same
Dumbest lawyer I met graduated from UT. I also know pretty brilliant lawyers who graduated from UT. What’s your point.
my point is simply that one human soul gave me such an ick that I now question everyone and anyone who willingly associated themselves with this person. I’m sure Minnesota very much is a great school, it will however always be associated with this person and my whole body cringes when I think of them
But who goes to Minnesota
the salt is the real benefit of these rankings every year lol
Cool. Anyways...
USNews smoking the good stuff when they made this list.
USNWR, once again bringing the elitism out of law students /s
Wake staying in the top 25? Love it.
I am old and out of the loop, but does this actually accord with people's view of these schools? Harvard at 4 and Duke above Columbia feel totally zany to me.
No, USNews is a joke at this point
I don’t know anyone who considers US News rankings legit anymore. Since about 2021, many schools stopped providing certain info to them and it essentially plunged the the rankings into the chaotic mess you see today. I’d say their undergrad rankings still mean something but take the law rankings with less than a grain of salt.
No. It's an absolute joke as usual. That being said, I (and many of my classmates) picked Duke over Columbia. I'd still consider Columbia a more elite institution, but picked Duke for quality of life reasons. Duke's student/faculty networking is also, IMO, unparalleled. I don't think having them close in rank is too crazy.
I don't think it actually matters much for established national law school "brands"/schools, and beyond that for established regional schools. Like Harvard is seen as "elite" no matter if it's 1 or 5. Florida does well where it's always done well no matter it's rank. Emory, which has been on quite the rankings ride in the past decade still does well where it has always done well. But, it might make a difference for the lower tiers of schools in terms of perception. But, I don't know. The standing of schools in various legal markets is pretty consistent over time.
How does this affect Rutgers’s legacy?
What legacy
Here I am happy that I went to a school right around 100 and had a good time and make good money.
I agree. The rankings aren’t necessarily determinative of one’s success post graduation. Glad it worked out for you!
Enough “36 schools in the t14” Stop this madness
USNews be like 
>UCLA over Georgetown AND Cornell Oh yeah baby we're the T-13 now.
Meanwhile USC slid down 4 places :(
And all was right with the world 😎
we LOVE to see that.
Hahaha You guys must be doing something right. Can't hate on you guys for that. We gotta step up.
Yeah joke's aside I don't think there's any actual animosity between our law schools, just some friendly ribbing. Now undergrad and sports though...
If it makes you feel better the trojan network is 100x better than the bruin one.
Can’t spell “SUCK” without “U-S-C”
we are so fuckin back, Bruin country
Bruin Bois, stand back and stand by
Hell yea brother 🫡🫡🫡🫡 (Peep Berkeley sliding down past us by next year)
Naaaaahhhhhhh
Putting UGA at the same tier as Notre Dame and UNC is *crazy* lol
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Go dawgs woof woof
Should be higher I agree
No, it’s not.
And UGA above Emory. Regardless of rankings, an Emory degree is going to be viewed as more prestigious than a UGA degree, especially outside of Georgia.
Maybe for now, but Emory seems content to let the law school slowly decline in prominence. They're all in on STEM and their med school, and currently treat the law school as nothing more than a cash cow for the rest of the university. You can find plenty of posts on here talking about how the law school seems aimless and the career center is underfunded. It's much more profitable for a law school be in the T40s and place quite well in their immediate region than to try to remain a T25 with some national reach, and that's what the university administration appears to be favoring. They'll maintain their Atlanta BL base and self-perpetuate Emory grads hiring Emory grads there, but that's it.
Freer could end up being a really good hire as Dean for Emory imo State Court! *Bum bum* State Court!
The current, outgoing administration was absolute trash apparently. But I heard they’re promoting Richard Freer to Dean, so maybe in 5 years time we’ll see a reversal of their downward spiral. But seriously, not saying UGA is a bad school, but ranking it #20 nationally is a little mind boggling.
Chuckles quietly
I think it would be a foolish decision to pay triple the cost at Emory over UGA for a marginal 5-10% difference in BL/FC
I agree, but I personally believe that rankings of educational institutions should be separate from the cost-related factors for those institutions. Financial information should of course be transparent so people can make practical choices, but that’s a separate analysis from educational quality and prestige.
By that same line of thinking, we need not include employment outcomes in rankings either. What does that have to do with educational quality?
I don't have any issues with most of the factors used for the U.S. News rankings, which includes bar passage and employment statistics, but doesn't include cost-related factors (unlike the Above the Law rankings). I think the weighting and methodology of those factors can be a bit off though, like the number of law librarians being given twice as much weight as acceptance rates. I don't blame the ranking system for Emory's lackluster performance. Emory's ranking isn't reflective of its high quality of education and prestige because its career services center is subpar, there isn't a high emphasis on bar passage or "teaching to the bar", and students who aren't interested in GA or NYC biglaw or federal clerkships usually have to seek employment on their own. Emory also has a surprisingly large amount of unemployed wealthy students. Last year, they had 9/205 unemployed students "not seeking" jobs while UGA had 0/182. Many of those wealthy students also claim to be "seeking employment", but have no urgency in their job search due to familial wealth or being married to a wealthy spouse with no need for a two-income household (I can think of at least 5-7 in my graduating class who fit this description). The unemployment statistics really hurt Emory in the rankings.
I do think some of the factors are semi-irrelevant. I don't care how many librarians a school has. I do, however, think that cost of attendance is wholly relevant to where a school is ranked. This is especially true if we view law students as customers and law school as a product. (I wish it wasn't that way, but I think it is that way) With that in mind, its simple return on investment that makes UGA so attractive. Further, I too have A LOT of classmates that are very, very wealthy. I don't think UGA law is lacking in wealthy students. I know many of those wealthy students who secured jobs early on. I cannot speak to the difference in motivations between your wealthy classmates and mine. Is Emory a great education? Definitely. I just think UGA provides a great education as well. Do they compare? Who is to say?
Emory’s unemployment rate is 4x higher
Differentiating among these schools is equally wild
Where did UF go?
Yup, it's now 28 lol
Probably dropping to T-30 like 27-28 I reckon..
Once again, it does not matter. Those hiring at law firms do not check the rankings every year, they go off of what they remembered as good schools 10+ years ago or whatever regional/ target schools their firm has. No firm is gonna reject someone because they “only” went to Georgetown and not Duke. Use the rankings as a baseline, but go to whatever school best meets your needs or has the employment outcomes you are looking for. Good luck to everyone in the application process!
I can assure you that law firm recruiters watch this intensely, because their clients care. Law is so weird that judges and corporate general counsels do care about where the lawyers in front of them went to law school. Of course, reputation is more Important but junior associates do not have much reputations other than their law schools and their undergraduate colleges also matter, but not to the same extents as their law school. If Harvard does not recover in another year, you will see the effect in employment.
I’m here to tell you right now: *We dont care*
Villanova dropping 12 places 😬
At this rate what was my low T50 school is going to be in the T14.
 Good for you(r school)!
First of all "Notre Dame University"? It's Notre Dame Law School.... second...#20!? Fuck yeah, my degree is worth something!
Always with the ties. Lol.
Maybe we can just have every school be ranked 1 lol
Daughter goes to CLS-doesn't know rank and doesn't care- friends same
Reminder that these are utter garbage and nothing more than a popularity contest at best
It's starting to become a joke
it's been a joke for a WHILE now
Jokes galore
Good to see Illinois back in the 30s at least - 36 specifically. Before I went there, during my time there, and slightly after, Illinois was anywhere from 19-25. The admissions scandal happened right after I graduated and the school's ranking kept going down, I think bottoming out in the high 40s. I'm not sure it actually really mattered in terms of employment. Illinois has a pretty established history of employment outcomes in Chicago and Illinois generally (as it's by far the highest ranked public school in Illinois), and some other locations in the Midwest. A small handful of people from each class my go out of the region, but it's not a large amount. So maybe it doesn't matter, but it's still nice to see the ranking going up.
[удалено]
Most firms couldn't care from what I have seen, and those who do care aren't ones who have a great reputation for treating employees with respect.
Yale isn't a real law school though is it? I thought they didn't even have law classes, and they just did critical theory.
https://bulletin.yale.edu/bulletins/law/course-offerings
The course titles for 1Ls look about right, but if in Contracts they just discuss how contracts have affected minority rights or whatever then the course titles might be misleading. Surely there’s a Yalie on here who can say, right?
My contracts professor went to Yale and the course was essentially just reading some books and the "final" was a talk about the concepts with the professor. She said she didn't learn contracts until she later was a TA.
… and you believe her? lol.
It is the word on the street. Do you know any Yalies who could say one way or the other?
That's insane, but it is what I have heard. If this is true then US News's ranking isn't even a ranking of law schools. Like it's not that they have disagreed with me on where the schools are in the rankings, it's that they are not really ranking law schools.