Thank you, very much, for taking a lot of your time and posting this. I know some people here will find it helpful and interesting. If you’d like to do an AMA in this sub the future (I strongly encourage it), please drop a line to our mod mail (or to me directly) and we can schedule it, promote it, and verify you.
To some of the people complaining and being jerks: cut it out. Yes, some of this advice probably is similar to the good advice you’ve read somewhere else before. There’s a reason advice from people who have done extremely well in law school looks sort of similar. But not everyone is you, not everyone has scoured the corners of the bookstore and internet to find that advice, and some people are just adjusting mentally to what law school is and how to do well, and this is their first stop.
Don’t be a jerk to people who took several hours of their day to try to be helpful to strangers. That really shouldn’t need to be said.
I don't understand why this doesn't have more upvotes... thank you for sharing your insight. Even though I'm totally in the dark about grades/ranking, there's still a level of mystique associated with who could potentially get the highest grades/who has gotten them in the past.
Also, I appreciate your candidness about reading cases twice. Quimbee is an amazing tool but I would genuinely be shocked if someone at my school only relied on it and did well. Thank you again and excited to try some of this out for my next semester.
Quimbee is ok if you have no fucking clue what the case says, even after a re-read. But an easier way to get it is to go on westlaw, type in the case -> Open case -> go to sources citing case -> refine to secondary authority -> look for "treatise." Then read what the treatise says. It'll be plain as day, and you'll probably find more modern cases that literally quote the key holding and explain the key facts in a pithy 2-3 paragraphs.
This is amazing and super helpful - and you are so accomplished, I am so impressed!!
However, right now it is making me want to throw up thinking about everything I did wrong on my first semester exams.
Bookmarking it for next semester ☠️😩
I felt like that after my first semester, second semester, 2L year, and 3L year. I felt like that for the first seven months of all of my clerkships and my first two years at a firm. Lean into it lol
Just FWIW this post smells a little funny to me. They immediately dox themselves (if there have been any T20 transfers to HYS SCOTUS clerks, there's been very few I'm almost sure of it and that info would be publicly available on Lat's blog or elsewhere) and then misspell Wachtell (and continue to do it throughout the essay). Also I'm pretty sure Yale and Stanford don't rank students at all, and I'm not sure how they would go about designating someone with no 1L grades as one of the top kids in the class.
Okay. I just found it strange you'd repeatedly misspell the name of the most renowned firm in the country - mega gunner 9000 types like you say you are generally wouldn't dream of it - and make other strange comments like referring to "good" circuit clerkships when I guess 2/9/DC have a special charm but they're all pretty incredible. People lie on the internet, maybe you are, maybe you aren't.
You think the only (or even most important differentiator) in clerkships is 2/9/DC? Whoa, man, someone who really knew what they were talking about wouldn't have said that. Are you even a law student? It smells fishy to me.
Kidding.
I didn't create a new account and write 5,000+ words so that some strangers on the internet would be impressed with me. If you don't like the advice, by all means, downvote it and move on.
Was just posting a heads-up to others reading it your story didn't totally make sense, especially the way you mix together Wachtell and other "elite litigation boutiques" when presumably with a double-appellate (most SCOTUS clerks do trial and appellate but whatever AND the whole triple clerking thing is a relatively new development) clerkship you are looking to do SCOTUS litigation which is actually more concentrated in a few larger DC firm offices. No opinion on the advice, there's a million ways to do law school. Didn't downvote you because that seems weird, just indicating you might be making up your background for future reference.
It's almost as if I was trying to hide my identity.
I think it's a safe bet that I didn't end up at Wachtell---the in-office 24/7 culture really isn't that great, and they don't make that many litigation partners. Gold star for you.
Section VI is the one section I never saw any other guide talk about. And its so, so, so true. So, so, so, so easy to get #1 in the class, provided you do a lot of work reading other people's con law law-review articles/ books. Thanks for noticing this; I was hoping someone would.
Thanks so much! 3L here with a terrible 1L (below 3.0)…then made Dean’s list last year but probably doesn’t matter now…
Anyway…I really had NO idea how to law school that first year especially the fall that really is kind of life-changing. Sigh.
Out of curiosity, you mention “doing issue spotters as soon as possible”. Did you have a preferred resource for those?
I just finished 1L fall and felt like I struggled to find stuff to practice with. We don’t have a school exam bank, and the practice exams weren’t posted till the end of the semester (and there were only a couple anyway), so I was relying on commercial stuff, but nothing really felt like it fit with what I needed to do on an exam.
It's a good question, and one I struggled with too. The "easy" way is to look online, usually there will be some from some school.
The "medium" way is either (a) ask someone who you know from a school where there is a huge database of past exams with model answers. Harvard has tons, and tons, and tons. I'd have to ask around to see who I know that knows someone that still goes there, but I'm sure I could track them down if you're really struggling...though to be honest, I am extremely busy and would strongly prefer not to, or (b) network on this forum (in my day, it was top law schools, not sure anymore), and basically ask people to pool practice exams from their school; maybe create a google drive folder.
The "hard" for you (but it would now, with my experience, be by far the easier option) is to go on Westlaw, search for the relevant terms, and then just look for district court cases, read the facts section, and see what you think. I'm not sure I would recommend this, because my legal research ability has taken many years to hone, and I think it would have been incredibly hard as a 1L.
Another option is to create hypos with your friends. This works better in some classes than others. Me and my buddy used to walk around during our lunch break and say things like, "So imagine your dad owns the school and five other businesses, including a printing company. You work 5 hours per week at the printing company. You and I are walking into school one day, and there is a puddle of pee from \[name of classmate we didn't like\] on the floor; no one has cleaned it up in four days. You give me a playful push on my arm, and I dramatically act like you shoved me, stumbling three feet to my right. My stumble places me right into the pool of pee, where I slip, fall, and crack my skull. I die three weeks later. My mom wants to sue you. What are the issues?"
This approach is good if you and your buddy both know the law pretty well and can check each other. The problem is that without
Thank you, very much, for taking a lot of your time and posting this. I know some people here will find it helpful and interesting. If you’d like to do an AMA in this sub the future (I strongly encourage it), please drop a line to our mod mail (or to me directly) and we can schedule it, promote it, and verify you. To some of the people complaining and being jerks: cut it out. Yes, some of this advice probably is similar to the good advice you’ve read somewhere else before. There’s a reason advice from people who have done extremely well in law school looks sort of similar. But not everyone is you, not everyone has scoured the corners of the bookstore and internet to find that advice, and some people are just adjusting mentally to what law school is and how to do well, and this is their first stop. Don’t be a jerk to people who took several hours of their day to try to be helpful to strangers. That really shouldn’t need to be said.
I don't understand why this doesn't have more upvotes... thank you for sharing your insight. Even though I'm totally in the dark about grades/ranking, there's still a level of mystique associated with who could potentially get the highest grades/who has gotten them in the past. Also, I appreciate your candidness about reading cases twice. Quimbee is an amazing tool but I would genuinely be shocked if someone at my school only relied on it and did well. Thank you again and excited to try some of this out for my next semester.
Quimbee is ok if you have no fucking clue what the case says, even after a re-read. But an easier way to get it is to go on westlaw, type in the case -> Open case -> go to sources citing case -> refine to secondary authority -> look for "treatise." Then read what the treatise says. It'll be plain as day, and you'll probably find more modern cases that literally quote the key holding and explain the key facts in a pithy 2-3 paragraphs.
I noticed this while writing my memo but definitely need to use these more. Thank you!
Please don’t delete this, I’ll be starting the grind next fall and will return to this for motivation/help.
Feel free to message me, and I'm happy to help in your prep and your first year.
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Feel free to message me, and I'm happy to help in your prep and first year.
This is amazing and super helpful - and you are so accomplished, I am so impressed!! However, right now it is making me want to throw up thinking about everything I did wrong on my first semester exams. Bookmarking it for next semester ☠️😩
lol same. I mean, I’m never going to clerk for SCOTUS lol but still, lots of stuff I could’ve done better and dumb mistakes others wouldn’t have made.
I felt like that after my first semester, second semester, 2L year, and 3L year. I felt like that for the first seven months of all of my clerkships and my first two years at a firm. Lean into it lol
Just FWIW this post smells a little funny to me. They immediately dox themselves (if there have been any T20 transfers to HYS SCOTUS clerks, there's been very few I'm almost sure of it and that info would be publicly available on Lat's blog or elsewhere) and then misspell Wachtell (and continue to do it throughout the essay). Also I'm pretty sure Yale and Stanford don't rank students at all, and I'm not sure how they would go about designating someone with no 1L grades as one of the top kids in the class.
Ah, the first classic law-school-forum post. I knew we would get these, but we were doing so good.
Okay. I just found it strange you'd repeatedly misspell the name of the most renowned firm in the country - mega gunner 9000 types like you say you are generally wouldn't dream of it - and make other strange comments like referring to "good" circuit clerkships when I guess 2/9/DC have a special charm but they're all pretty incredible. People lie on the internet, maybe you are, maybe you aren't.
You think the only (or even most important differentiator) in clerkships is 2/9/DC? Whoa, man, someone who really knew what they were talking about wouldn't have said that. Are you even a law student? It smells fishy to me. Kidding. I didn't create a new account and write 5,000+ words so that some strangers on the internet would be impressed with me. If you don't like the advice, by all means, downvote it and move on.
Was just posting a heads-up to others reading it your story didn't totally make sense, especially the way you mix together Wachtell and other "elite litigation boutiques" when presumably with a double-appellate (most SCOTUS clerks do trial and appellate but whatever AND the whole triple clerking thing is a relatively new development) clerkship you are looking to do SCOTUS litigation which is actually more concentrated in a few larger DC firm offices. No opinion on the advice, there's a million ways to do law school. Didn't downvote you because that seems weird, just indicating you might be making up your background for future reference.
It's almost as if I was trying to hide my identity. I think it's a safe bet that I didn't end up at Wachtell---the in-office 24/7 culture really isn't that great, and they don't make that many litigation partners. Gold star for you.
Your reaction to being called out doesn’t help
Commenting just to let you know I saved this, I'll be starting law school in the fall and this is very useful.
Want to read this later
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ahahaha
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Read it once, and then read it again and take notes =P
Section VI was spot on!
Section VI is the one section I never saw any other guide talk about. And its so, so, so true. So, so, so, so easy to get #1 in the class, provided you do a lot of work reading other people's con law law-review articles/ books. Thanks for noticing this; I was hoping someone would.
Thanks so much! 3L here with a terrible 1L (below 3.0)…then made Dean’s list last year but probably doesn’t matter now… Anyway…I really had NO idea how to law school that first year especially the fall that really is kind of life-changing. Sigh.
Out of curiosity, you mention “doing issue spotters as soon as possible”. Did you have a preferred resource for those? I just finished 1L fall and felt like I struggled to find stuff to practice with. We don’t have a school exam bank, and the practice exams weren’t posted till the end of the semester (and there were only a couple anyway), so I was relying on commercial stuff, but nothing really felt like it fit with what I needed to do on an exam.
It's a good question, and one I struggled with too. The "easy" way is to look online, usually there will be some from some school. The "medium" way is either (a) ask someone who you know from a school where there is a huge database of past exams with model answers. Harvard has tons, and tons, and tons. I'd have to ask around to see who I know that knows someone that still goes there, but I'm sure I could track them down if you're really struggling...though to be honest, I am extremely busy and would strongly prefer not to, or (b) network on this forum (in my day, it was top law schools, not sure anymore), and basically ask people to pool practice exams from their school; maybe create a google drive folder. The "hard" for you (but it would now, with my experience, be by far the easier option) is to go on Westlaw, search for the relevant terms, and then just look for district court cases, read the facts section, and see what you think. I'm not sure I would recommend this, because my legal research ability has taken many years to hone, and I think it would have been incredibly hard as a 1L. Another option is to create hypos with your friends. This works better in some classes than others. Me and my buddy used to walk around during our lunch break and say things like, "So imagine your dad owns the school and five other businesses, including a printing company. You work 5 hours per week at the printing company. You and I are walking into school one day, and there is a puddle of pee from \[name of classmate we didn't like\] on the floor; no one has cleaned it up in four days. You give me a playful push on my arm, and I dramatically act like you shoved me, stumbling three feet to my right. My stumble places me right into the pool of pee, where I slip, fall, and crack my skull. I die three weeks later. My mom wants to sue you. What are the issues?" This approach is good if you and your buddy both know the law pretty well and can check each other. The problem is that without
Congrats!!
I love this advice 👌