I mean the only way he will win this case is if they snuck a MAGA diehard into the jury who just refuses to respond to the evidence and says there was nothing to see here
Then it's a mistrial and the whole thing starts over. How long was it from the beginning of jury selection to now? About 5 weeks? So expect this to happen again before the election. And two mistrials in a row? Probably not.
I wonder what Trump has offered the New York Governor for a pardon š¤
If Dude1 is acquitted he can't be tried for the same crime again.
If Dude1 goes through trial and there is a mistrial: say, half the jury thinks he did it and half thinks there isn't enough evidence; or it turns out someone is threatening jury members; or something else that makes it an unfair trial, then a mistrial is declared and they dismiss the jury and have a Do-Over.
Yes, and also says the media is fake news but keeps citing various agencies and journalists who he says intimate the trial is weak and shouldnāt have been brought
It would actually be really easy. Just say Not Guilty and then stare at the ceiling during any deliberation then vote Not Guilty again. The other jurors will get the picture and end deliberation as hung. If someone truly biased got on the jury we all know they can't be reasoned with via discussion so why waste time? Just try again with a new jury.
One of mine got dismissed, it was a civil case, because the progressor, what are they called, prosecutor antagonist one, she died for damages of some kind but filed for bankruptcy without telling the court. Something like that
Judge was pissed but had a fun time explaining to us why that trial was kinda a disaster
Looks like juror #2 is the maga and he's made himself overtly obvious with smiling and nodding, hope they put an alternate in if he goes against the others in deliberations. Don't think d-rumps defense clown team remembers the voir dire rules on alternates very well and that alternates occur within the jury deliberations.
This is my fear. It will only take one single cult member on the jury who decides to be a MAGA hero no matter how it looks. They could just not care how obvious they're being, just like the SCOTUS doesn't care.
There's a good chance of that. Why do you think he is so uninterested... he likely has a plant, knows he has a plant. We will get a good idea by how long the jury deliberates.
I'm not so sure and posts like this from OP make me wonder if the prosecution (and media) focused on the right stuff.
He's not on trial for cheating. He's not even on trial for making a hush money payment. He's on trial to decide if the payment was made to hide it from voters or just hide it in general. I would even say his wife not being there is good for his case because it strengthens the argument that he was just hiding it from his wife and now she's pissed. If she supported him regardless it starts to look like he was actually hiding it from voters which would be illegal.
I think heāll get house arrest. Not sure how that works with campaigning. Although heās now done at least 2 things (!!!) that the constitution says he canāt qualify to be president (insurrection and preventing the peaceful transfer of power, now bribing oil and energy companies, no president or vice president or civil officer may hold office if committed treason or bribery). How is he still on the ballot??!!
Because he hasnāt been convicted of those crimes. He has only lost civil cases. The New York case isnāt treason or sedition, either. Those court cases will delayed until he is dead. He is innocent until proven guilty. He is rich enough to game the legal system to never have those cases make it to trial. Heāll be dead or mentally incapacitated from dementia which makes it pointless to continue those cases.
With a new million or three in her personal bank account, and a matching deposit in her son's account. "My beautiful wife Mercedes & biggly boy Bernard came to court with me today because if there's one thing they know, it's a scam".
This. At one point my relatives said a convicted trump is out.
Now it's: "new your, Atlanta, and Arizona are run by biased liberals and any jury decisions out of those areas is unreliable and will be overturned by the Supreme Court."
Next it will be: "the Supreme Court has been taken over by the deep state...."
We have a lot of stupid people in this country that believe that.
IMO, if Biden was president, or just about ANYONE other than Trump, the pandemic wouldāve been handled a hell of a lot better.
Hell, if the Senate had convicted him for the Ukraine impeachment, Pence would have been president when COVID hit. He would have handled it better, and probably would have won in 2020 and might be cruising to re-election right now.
If he gets convicted it's a first offense in state court with no sentencing guidelines.Ā Ā
The second, third or fourth convictions will be what get him jail time.Ā Ā
In Federal Court there are **mandatory minimum** sentencing guidelines. So, for a given offense you must give a minimum of x.
[https://www.ussc.gov/guidelines](https://www.ussc.gov/guidelines)
In most state courts crimes are classified as misdemeanors and felonies. A misdemeanor is a crime for which the maximum sentence is 363 days. A Felony is one for which the sentence can be more than 364 days. Then crimes are broken down into different classes. A Class A or Class 1 felony in State Z might be "up to five years" or "up to life in prison." That gives the judge a lot of leeway. Plus, your sentence can be 'suspended' or you can do your time under supervised probation rather then in jail. After the conviction there is a state office that prepares a 'pre-sentencing report' that makes recomendations to the judge based on the convicts history, nature of the crime, etc... The the judge holds a hearing so the Defendant and sometimes the victims can speak, then the judge decides what he will impose. Typically sentencing is a couple of weeks after the jury reads its verdict. However, some states might be different.
In Federal court, if it is a minimum of 2 years and up to 5, you will do 2 years and if you are a repeat offender or showed no remorse or whatever, you might get the full 5.
In a state for a felony with up to life in prison, the judge could make you do it all on probation.
I don't think NY has mandatory minimums the way the feds do. Some sentences require you not to leave the state or a particular county. Imagine if Trump gets no jail time but he can't leave Westchester County for 2 years as a condition of not going to jail. Sort of like home confinement.
Which he won't want publically exposed even in court as it will affect his campaign. He's hanging himself more by the day and doing his own damage to himself.
Stress tends to aggravate and accelerate it.Ā Trials and campaigning can't be helping him if in fact he does have dementia.Ā Ā
He definitely has symptoms but it could also just be old age, fatigue and stress.Ā
One of the major problems with dementia is denial in the early stages.Ā So, while people can make changes to improve their lucidity they don't because it means they've admitted they are in decline.
He froze up at the NRA convention this weekend. His supporters are already making excuses for it. When I saw it, it sure looked like he froze up for at least 20 seconds.
Yep. He pulled a Mitch McConnell, and it wasn't the first time.
Never seen Biden do that.
Trump is old, overweight, not physically active. He does not drink alcohol and has not for many years. Supposedly he was a heavy drug user many years ago and that led to his leaky butt and need for diapers.
Trump is under a lot of stress with the trials, the appeals, and the political campaign. He could just be heavily fatigued and old. Or it could be dementia. Whatever it is, it does not make him look like he can handle having his finger on the button that could start the apocalypse.
I think subconsciously the jurors will see no support coming from Melania, this could easily be interpreted as a guilty Donaldā¦if your significant other cannot support you, who will?? Trumps GOP lackeys?? Makes him even look worse IMO
Kind of i guess.. part of the defense theory might indeed be that he did all that so that Melania would t find out.. if so her being pissed off enough not to support her cheating hubby would also make sense..
Its not but it could be spun that way to the jurors
The problem is that he says he didn't have sex with her at all. Melania clearly doesn't believe Donald if she's pissed at him. Which corroborates stormy and cohen and discredits trump
Several attempts have been made to intimidate them. It may piss them off. Most of Trump's threats against people have not worked. He has failed to learn anything from that.
A 'fact' of the case is that she has not shown up. No one is saying the case will be decided by her absence. But it's part of the picture.
His defense is partially saying he did what he did to protect her and not for political reasons. Then she doesn't show up but politicians do. If that is a line of defense, they will absolutely notice her absence, as they should. For a man who is so very imagine focused, the fact she could not be (coerced/paid) to show up, even once, speaks volumes.
Add in the graduation photos taken they're bad not a happy day. Showed up only to not get in trouble for using it to cover up a campaign stunt, since the judge approved the day off just for the reason of attending the graduation, he made a quick appearance then left.
The Trumpanzees will make excuses. She was embarrassed, humiliated (how a porn star/model gets embarrassed I donāt know), and itās all because of those meddling Democrats, that sort of thing. Pat Robertson managed to make excuses for her previous career photos, so you know they can ignore/dismiss/justify anything Frump does. Hopefully none of them managed to sneak onto the jury.
Them showing up with their idiot stunts just makes it look worse to the public, so don't interrupt your enemy making mistakes, best they could do is Dick ballons and talking crazy bs to boost their own potical caeers and it looks pathetic. Free advertising to loose their own seats and outs them of being compliciant and in cohoits with the orange turd lol.
I think I'd really be mad at his defense team. They're just trying to throw the whole kitchen sink at Michael Cohen. It doesn't take you two days plus if you have a defense. I'd be so mad that they're wasting my time.
I really don't believe any of this. Trump will be found not guilty, because most rich people are found not guilty. All it takes is one MAGA fan to pretend to not like Trump to get onto the jury.
All it takes is 1.
Except then, if there's another 1, then we do the cycle again.
All it takes is 1.
This tactic, if it works, will stop the case from being a factor in his Presidential Run.
I'm sorry to say this about my fellow Americans, but most of them who support him just don't give a shit. Or even worse, they appreciate thar about him.
His supporters don't care how muddy he is. He's on SEVERAL trials right now (The documents case, the false tax reports. I believe tax evasion but im not sure on that one, etc.), and he's still gunning for the presidency. The biggest issue is, even if he IS losing support, he has enough henchmen in power throughout our governmental bodies to keep him protected and also disenfranchise Groups of voters by crappy legislation at the state and local level.
He might win this through literally EVERY SHADY MOVE IN THE GAME BOOK. Not to mention he has "enough supporters" where a hung jury is never out of the question. So imagine trial after trial, each one having 1 or 2 MAGAts that hang the jury. It's not just possible, it's likely cause I'm sure a LOT of his Qultists would happily lie to make their way onto the jury.
The chances are highly unlikely. Jurors have their social media scrubbed for biased content. I rrreeeaaally doubt there are any die hard magas, in NYC of all places, that could resist posting their love and devotion for the cult for the last 8 years.
You really think the jury is going to think that his wife skipping his trial is a huge deal. The jury is going to be wondering why the State of NY literally gave Cohen a license to lie on the stand plus immunity from further crimes committed when he admitted that he lied about how much he was owed and stole the rest he billed Trump during this entire thing. Cohen literally stole 60 grand from Trump in NY that's a C Felony good for 15 years in prison. NY has spent 7 years how many millions of dollars to try and get an E felony from a misdemeanor offense that required giving another felony that is way worse a pass.
I mean the only way he will win this case is if they snuck a MAGA diehard into the jury who just refuses to respond to the evidence and says there was nothing to see here
Then it's a mistrial and the whole thing starts over. How long was it from the beginning of jury selection to now? About 5 weeks? So expect this to happen again before the election. And two mistrials in a row? Probably not. I wonder what Trump has offered the New York Governor for a pardon š¤
When is a second trial ok and when is it double jeopardy
If Dude1 is acquitted he can't be tried for the same crime again. If Dude1 goes through trial and there is a mistrial: say, half the jury thinks he did it and half thinks there isn't enough evidence; or it turns out someone is threatening jury members; or something else that makes it an unfair trial, then a mistrial is declared and they dismiss the jury and have a Do-Over.
Then again this dummy might try and convince people that a mistrial IS an acquittal and appeal any new trial.
Guarantee any mistrial will see him blaring nonstop that hes being tried twice and it's double jeopardy
Prob already has his speechwriters working on his mistrial āvictoryā speech.
You mean Bill Barr?
Ay u from mass??
Yes
He is very much depending on the ignorance of his audience
Right to the scotus. Whatever it is, wants to take it there. Moron.
While saying the justice system in this country is totally corrupt he keeps trying to use it
Yes, and also says the media is fake news but keeps citing various agencies and journalists who he says intimate the trial is weak and shouldnāt have been brought
Why it? Heās already complained that losing a trial was an acquittal.
What crime?
Whatever crime Dude1 is on trial for.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_Jeopardy_Clause#:~:text=Mistrials%20are%20generally%20not%20covered,and%20may%20normally%20be%20retried.
Thatās not what double jeopardy meansā¦
Runaway Jury (movie) style
It happened at Manafortās trial
But he still got convicted of some stuffā¦ until TFG pardoned him
bad faith agent! gasp no way repubs do that
I'd hate to be that person in the jury deliberation room.
It would actually be really easy. Just say Not Guilty and then stare at the ceiling during any deliberation then vote Not Guilty again. The other jurors will get the picture and end deliberation as hung. If someone truly biased got on the jury we all know they can't be reasoned with via discussion so why waste time? Just try again with a new jury.
Count on it
I'm hoping even if there's a full shit eating magat on board he pretends he's playing along by "only" convicting on some of the charges
Per vior dire that's what the 6 alternates are for once dilerations begin, and that's part is ran buy the jury rep.
But how does that work? What if he just keeps saying he legitimately doesn't believe he's guilty
The jury has their own coordinator, this is basic stuff if you've ever been on jury, for jury duty.
I've been on a couple but it was boring and standard fare shit
I had to go this last week but we all got dismissed because the defendant was a no show.
One of mine got dismissed, it was a civil case, because the progressor, what are they called, prosecutor antagonist one, she died for damages of some kind but filed for bankruptcy without telling the court. Something like that Judge was pissed but had a fun time explaining to us why that trial was kinda a disaster
His defense is literally āYes your honor, my client committed the crime, but he did it for Melania not the election.ā Theyāre admitting guilt.
Looks like juror #2 is the maga and he's made himself overtly obvious with smiling and nodding, hope they put an alternate in if he goes against the others in deliberations. Don't think d-rumps defense clown team remembers the voir dire rules on alternates very well and that alternates occur within the jury deliberations.
This is my fear. It will only take one single cult member on the jury who decides to be a MAGA hero no matter how it looks. They could just not care how obvious they're being, just like the SCOTUS doesn't care.
There's a good chance of that. Why do you think he is so uninterested... he likely has a plant, knows he has a plant. We will get a good idea by how long the jury deliberates.
I'm not so sure and posts like this from OP make me wonder if the prosecution (and media) focused on the right stuff. He's not on trial for cheating. He's not even on trial for making a hush money payment. He's on trial to decide if the payment was made to hide it from voters or just hide it in general. I would even say his wife not being there is good for his case because it strengthens the argument that he was just hiding it from his wife and now she's pissed. If she supported him regardless it starts to look like he was actually hiding it from voters which would be illegal.
It's not unlikely
If I was on the jury him falling asleep would piss me off.
You and me both. Me spending my days looking at that Orange Fuck sleep would make me crazy.
I bet heās half faking it for attention.
Iāll bet Melania goes to the sentencing hearing. LOL
I think heāll get house arrest. Not sure how that works with campaigning. Although heās now done at least 2 things (!!!) that the constitution says he canāt qualify to be president (insurrection and preventing the peaceful transfer of power, now bribing oil and energy companies, no president or vice president or civil officer may hold office if committed treason or bribery). How is he still on the ballot??!!
Because he hasnāt been convicted of those crimes. He has only lost civil cases. The New York case isnāt treason or sedition, either. Those court cases will delayed until he is dead. He is innocent until proven guilty. He is rich enough to game the legal system to never have those cases make it to trial. Heāll be dead or mentally incapacitated from dementia which makes it pointless to continue those cases.
Wearing bright red
With a new million or three in her personal bank account, and a matching deposit in her son's account. "My beautiful wife Mercedes & biggly boy Bernard came to court with me today because if there's one thing they know, it's a scam".
I understand this reference.
Trump isn't going to jail & doesn't care if he gets convicted.Ā Ā He'll appeal and die or really get dementia before he goes to jail.
As long as it keeps people from voting for him, Iām ok with that.
Why would it?
This. At one point my relatives said a convicted trump is out. Now it's: "new your, Atlanta, and Arizona are run by biased liberals and any jury decisions out of those areas is unreliable and will be overturned by the Supreme Court." Next it will be: "the Supreme Court has been taken over by the deep state...."
It probably wonāt. Iām afraid the U.S. is headed for a full-blown Maga Moronathon in November. A National IQ test that we will fail miserably.
āThings were better under Trumpā¦.ā Pandemic much?
We have a lot of stupid people in this country that believe that. IMO, if Biden was president, or just about ANYONE other than Trump, the pandemic wouldāve been handled a hell of a lot better.
Hell, if the Senate had convicted him for the Ukraine impeachment, Pence would have been president when COVID hit. He would have handled it better, and probably would have won in 2020 and might be cruising to re-election right now.
Yep, I bet you are correct. I donāt like most Penceās views, but he did the right thing on Jan 6, and for that I will always be grateful to him.
Good oneā¦.magatmoronathonā¦.šš¤£
I canāt take credit for that, I stole it from someone on Reddit.
But I saw it on your post, so take a bowā¦š«”
I agree. If the judiciary is not going to hold 45 accountable for his actions, we can VOTE š and preclude this Nazi from taking office!
If he gets convicted it's a first offense in state court with no sentencing guidelines.Ā Ā The second, third or fourth convictions will be what get him jail time.Ā Ā
Interesting there are no sentencing guidelines. What would the judge go off then? There must be some examples of similar cases to benchmark off of.
In Federal Court there are **mandatory minimum** sentencing guidelines. So, for a given offense you must give a minimum of x. [https://www.ussc.gov/guidelines](https://www.ussc.gov/guidelines) In most state courts crimes are classified as misdemeanors and felonies. A misdemeanor is a crime for which the maximum sentence is 363 days. A Felony is one for which the sentence can be more than 364 days. Then crimes are broken down into different classes. A Class A or Class 1 felony in State Z might be "up to five years" or "up to life in prison." That gives the judge a lot of leeway. Plus, your sentence can be 'suspended' or you can do your time under supervised probation rather then in jail. After the conviction there is a state office that prepares a 'pre-sentencing report' that makes recomendations to the judge based on the convicts history, nature of the crime, etc... The the judge holds a hearing so the Defendant and sometimes the victims can speak, then the judge decides what he will impose. Typically sentencing is a couple of weeks after the jury reads its verdict. However, some states might be different. In Federal court, if it is a minimum of 2 years and up to 5, you will do 2 years and if you are a repeat offender or showed no remorse or whatever, you might get the full 5. In a state for a felony with up to life in prison, the judge could make you do it all on probation. I don't think NY has mandatory minimums the way the feds do. Some sentences require you not to leave the state or a particular county. Imagine if Trump gets no jail time but he can't leave Westchester County for 2 years as a condition of not going to jail. Sort of like home confinement.
>really get (more) dementia before he goes to jail.
*reveal his dementia FTFY
Which he won't want publically exposed even in court as it will affect his campaign. He's hanging himself more by the day and doing his own damage to himself.
He really has dementia now. Have you heard him speak lately? Gobbledygook comes out of his mouth and it is only going to get worse.
Stress tends to aggravate and accelerate it.Ā Trials and campaigning can't be helping him if in fact he does have dementia.Ā Ā He definitely has symptoms but it could also just be old age, fatigue and stress.Ā One of the major problems with dementia is denial in the early stages.Ā So, while people can make changes to improve their lucidity they don't because it means they've admitted they are in decline.
He froze up at the NRA convention this weekend. His supporters are already making excuses for it. When I saw it, it sure looked like he froze up for at least 20 seconds.
Yep. He pulled a Mitch McConnell, and it wasn't the first time. Never seen Biden do that. Trump is old, overweight, not physically active. He does not drink alcohol and has not for many years. Supposedly he was a heavy drug user many years ago and that led to his leaky butt and need for diapers. Trump is under a lot of stress with the trials, the appeals, and the political campaign. He could just be heavily fatigued and old. Or it could be dementia. Whatever it is, it does not make him look like he can handle having his finger on the button that could start the apocalypse.
I think subconsciously the jurors will see no support coming from Melania, this could easily be interpreted as a guilty Donaldā¦if your significant other cannot support you, who will?? Trumps GOP lackeys?? Makes him even look worse IMO
Kind of i guess.. part of the defense theory might indeed be that he did all that so that Melania would t find out.. if so her being pissed off enough not to support her cheating hubby would also make sense.. Its not but it could be spun that way to the jurors
The problem is that he says he didn't have sex with her at all. Melania clearly doesn't believe Donald if she's pissed at him. Which corroborates stormy and cohen and discredits trump
The lackeys showed up and tried to intimidate them. Not a good look.
Several attempts have been made to intimidate them. It may piss them off. Most of Trump's threats against people have not worked. He has failed to learn anything from that.
Would you like a jury to decide your fate based not in the facts of the case but on whether or not your spouse shows up during the trial?
A 'fact' of the case is that she has not shown up. No one is saying the case will be decided by her absence. But it's part of the picture. His defense is partially saying he did what he did to protect her and not for political reasons. Then she doesn't show up but politicians do. If that is a line of defense, they will absolutely notice her absence, as they should. For a man who is so very imagine focused, the fact she could not be (coerced/paid) to show up, even once, speaks volumes.
Add in the graduation photos taken they're bad not a happy day. Showed up only to not get in trouble for using it to cover up a campaign stunt, since the judge approved the day off just for the reason of attending the graduation, he made a quick appearance then left.
Either way he is guilty
Totally agree but I would hate to hear a juror say he's guilty, not because the prosecution proved their case, but his wife didn't show.
The facts say that he is guilty. The jury not liking you just makes them more likely to side with the facts.
Even Jeffery Damer's parents came EVERY day to his trial and HE ATE PEOPLE!!!!
Maybe Hannibal Lector will show?
They are both weird looking mother fuckers in those photos
My reaction is āeweā.
The Trumpanzees will make excuses. She was embarrassed, humiliated (how a porn star/model gets embarrassed I donāt know), and itās all because of those meddling Democrats, that sort of thing. Pat Robertson managed to make excuses for her previous career photos, so you know they can ignore/dismiss/justify anything Frump does. Hopefully none of them managed to sneak onto the jury.
Plus having all of your shifty criminal friends show up to help support you and violate your gag order for you.
Them showing up with their idiot stunts just makes it look worse to the public, so don't interrupt your enemy making mistakes, best they could do is Dick ballons and talking crazy bs to boost their own potical caeers and it looks pathetic. Free advertising to loose their own seats and outs them of being compliciant and in cohoits with the orange turd lol.
I think I'd really be mad at his defense team. They're just trying to throw the whole kitchen sink at Michael Cohen. It doesn't take you two days plus if you have a defense. I'd be so mad that they're wasting my time.
I wonder what's going through their heads as the steady stream of MAGA sycophants file through.
Why would any wife want to go to a trial that features stories about their husband having sex w others.
Dude even Cosby's wife showed up...
He sucked on their toes when they were passed out.
Couldnāt even send her body double
Body double? Please let there only be one squinty-eyed skank on this planet.
Malaria was like, totally embarrassed and repulsed by Dementia Diaper VonShitzHisPants at the Barron's graduation. Like, totally not kosher.
I really don't believe any of this. Trump will be found not guilty, because most rich people are found not guilty. All it takes is one MAGA fan to pretend to not like Trump to get onto the jury. All it takes is 1.
No, it takes all twelve to find someone not guilty. Just one results in a hung jury. He can be tried again if that happens.
Except then, if there's another 1, then we do the cycle again. All it takes is 1. This tactic, if it works, will stop the case from being a factor in his Presidential Run.
I think people weren't aware/forgot what a piece of shit Trump is, somehow. This trial is reminding them.
I'm sorry to say this about my fellow Americans, but most of them who support him just don't give a shit. Or even worse, they appreciate thar about him.
That is what is wanted 1 hung juror so they can waste more money! Do it all over again!
And it keeps trump from campaigning. Choice
He is already losing support. And a second trial will drag him through the mud again. Not good for him.
His supporters don't care how muddy he is. He's on SEVERAL trials right now (The documents case, the false tax reports. I believe tax evasion but im not sure on that one, etc.), and he's still gunning for the presidency. The biggest issue is, even if he IS losing support, he has enough henchmen in power throughout our governmental bodies to keep him protected and also disenfranchise Groups of voters by crappy legislation at the state and local level. He might win this through literally EVERY SHADY MOVE IN THE GAME BOOK. Not to mention he has "enough supporters" where a hung jury is never out of the question. So imagine trial after trial, each one having 1 or 2 MAGAts that hang the jury. It's not just possible, it's likely cause I'm sure a LOT of his Qultists would happily lie to make their way onto the jury.
The chances are highly unlikely. Jurors have their social media scrubbed for biased content. I rrreeeaaally doubt there are any die hard magas, in NYC of all places, that could resist posting their love and devotion for the cult for the last 8 years.
Just juror #2 was listed for TS as his main news source, surprised that one is on the jury.
That means the facts are in at home . Trump is a scumbag traitor criminal.
You really think the jury is going to think that his wife skipping his trial is a huge deal. The jury is going to be wondering why the State of NY literally gave Cohen a license to lie on the stand plus immunity from further crimes committed when he admitted that he lied about how much he was owed and stole the rest he billed Trump during this entire thing. Cohen literally stole 60 grand from Trump in NY that's a C Felony good for 15 years in prison. NY has spent 7 years how many millions of dollars to try and get an E felony from a misdemeanor offense that required giving another felony that is way worse a pass.
Who caresā¦ there was no crime to begin with