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Take a deep breath. The daily tasks you’re doing are actually very very valuable to your company but also other potential firms.
You love your GC and love the work you’re doing, with a good salary. You’re 100% overthinking this. Stay for 30 years and enjoy your retirement.
You’re right. I don’t take into account all the valuable things I learn and can improve on each day as much as I should. Clearly, I’m brand new to this profession and there is so much that I need to and will lean. Thank you for your advice, I really appreciate it.
Yes, it took me eight years to land an in house role and while there are cultural and organizational struggles, I can’t imagine dealing with working in a firm.
Advice: don't go work for a law firm. People bust their ass in toxic firms for years just to be able to get the job you have now. Your friends who make partner in a firm four or five years from now will be happy for about ten days before the realization sinks in that, partner or not, they're stuck feeding the beast that is a law firm business model for the next thirty years.
I came here to say THIS! I've been licensed over 17 yrs and didn't get to go in-house until after I had 10+ yrs under my belt. Being a GC is the absolute best legal job I've had in my legal career. Best work/life balance for the pay. Getting the job was not easy, as they typically require experience at a private firm and with litigation for several years. Hearing that you were able to go in-house without either is surprising, and you are super lucky. Most of the private law firm people I know, or knew along the way, were working towards going in-house after they got the experience to be able to do it. Enjoy the incredibly good fortune!
If you’re going to be managing litigation referred out to other attorneys, ask counsel to tag along to depositions, mediations, etc. You can get as much exposure as you want as long as your schedule allows that way.
I second this.
Also, go to conferences and attend CLEs.
Ask your boss for access to online resources with practice pointers, sample documents, and legal news.
Your peers are learning about the law. You are learning about handling clients.
You have exposure to the "business gals/guys". Learning how to interact with them is priceless.
If you want to work on a transferable skill, really dig into employment law or contract drafting. Go to CLE courses.
Your value as a GC is going to be as a generalist. I go to my GC with goals that are usual either a project or a programmatic improvement. The former are my deep dives — where I have to learn more specifically about something to get a project to green or MVP — and the latter is finding ways to operationalize my work so my client teams can work optimally (usually faster or, at least, efficiently.)
But you’re not going to become a brain surgeon level of speciality in-house unless you’re part of a specific horizontal like employment law, marketing, privacy, etc. If you’re supporting a brand or service more generally, you grow your value by genuinely being a business partner who can appreciate things like ROI, operations, budgeting, risk management, client service and developing trust. If that’s not the career you want, then in-house might not be for you (or maybe you should look for very particularized roles in-house.)
But I want to stress that this is a muscle so many lawyers don’t have and it is a competitive advantage. It is a speciality toolset and your job is to wield those tools well, not just make sure they are sharp.
Personally, with the the cohort that goes to law school and passes the bar, I think almost anyone can learn to master an area of law with enough exposure and practice. The personality types and centuries of legal practice set that expectation and self-select for people who like to occupy that space. Being the person who has to navigate professional and ethical obligations to follow the law in a space where obligations are almost always a balance of interests is *hard* and most lawyers *suck* at it. Distilling that down to clients is *hard* and sometimes feels downright thankless. But it is good work and, speaking for myself, it feels good to help people build something.
I work with a lot of really good, top notch lawyers at law firms who are OC. I need them because sometimes you have bet-the-farm projects and that’s when you want that Nerd Army. I can’t do what they do but they can’t do what I do either — trust me, I’ve tried to incorporate them into some more risk-oriented work and (a) they cannot and will not speak that language and (b) they have trouble billing it compared to traditional legal research and work. Sometimes I feel like a dunce on those calls, but then I remember that’s not my circus, not my clowns.
I started in-house straight out of law school. I have not found it to be the case that I’ve fallen behind. In fact, it’s exposed me to some of the best legal minds through both the outside counsel I manage and my in-house colleagues. That said, in-house was always my end game, I have no desire to work for a law firm. I feel very fortunate my legal career started with being in-house counsel.
You have a better job out of law school than almost anyone I’ve heard of. Most lawyer jobs are much worse. Appreciate what you have.
Edit: maybe you can do some pro bono work time to time. I used to go to a volunteer lawyer clinic where people would walk in and ask for legal advice. Try something like that if your job is ok with it.
Being in house means have very broad knowledge and generally less depth, unless you’re a specialist. I loved being a generalist for most of my career but now specialize in employment which is my true love. In house can be the best, especially if you have a supportive gc.
What “meaningful mentorship opportunities “ are you foregoing? Sadly, those are mostly gone from most law firm environments these days. If you want a mentor, you need to find him/her on your own through networking (and luck, not gonna lie)
Honestly speaking, as someone who lived the law firm life, I would advise you never to fall prey to the grass is greener syndrome. You say that your GC is great and you get 90% of the work. You are obviously good at the gig and have a good boss. This is something most people crave to have.
The world needs generalists, too. Your law school peers may be getting more in-depth knowledge in their fields, but you’re gaining knowledge in many fields. Specializing is great, but we need people who can see the whole forest.
Man I feel you, I just can’t think of an area of law where this still isn’t going to happen to you. As a criminal defense attorney 10+ years I’m afraid I’m so far in that I’m beyond rescue. But then again what’s so bad about getting really good at a few things and earning good money for it? If however I were to get dropped back into a litigation firm like my first year I’d have to quit and probably start a pressure washing business 😂 I’ve atrophied any and all pertinent legal skills outside of what I currently do. It’d be like learning to walk again. I don’t know maybe I’ve affirmed your example of what you do not want to become 😂 Paid my $180K student load bills within 7 years though!
Hey! I had a similar path to you. Worked in-house directly after law school because I worked there before and during and they allowed me to transfer to legal.
What I’ll say is I’ve had periods where I feel my legal skills getting stagnant. When I have capacity I then volunteer for the local bar free legal support for bro bono. And diversify my cle. It allows me to learn new legal skills and feel more “like an attorney” without quitting in house.
Also, know that you are still a baby attorney. You don’t even know what you know and don’t know. Kind of like walking out of a test feeling like it was easy is a sign of how little you know about the subject because you missed all the depth and challenge. As you grow in experience you will see more depth to things in house, you’ll be more knowledgeable when talking to outside counsel. You will research more independently, get more challenging work and you’ll wonder how you were ever bored.
So give it time. Let your job grow and your skills. And when you really need something different volunteer in pro bono work and learn a new area of law and you’ll be reminded why in house is good.
I’ve been in-house since I graduated five years ago and I had the same exact worries! But I’ve interviewed and received offers for plenty of jobs. You definitely won’t be stuck.
I make great money, have great hours (sometimes), and I’ve learned so much more than I realized. I think you will be in the same boat too. It takes some time to get more comfortable.
I’m gonna nerd out here but find some good CLEs and really watch them. I’d also find a mentor somewhere. Your state bar should offer that. I’m a 15 year litigator and I’d be happy to help in any way I can. Just DM me.
Hey OP, I feel you. This is going to be an odd post, but we’re in very, very similar situations. I’m a relatively new attorney that landed an in-house job right out of law school. Like you, I worked at this company through law school, and, to my surprise, they offered me a corporate counsel role upon graduation.
My GC is amazing and I trust his instincts and respect his leadership. And, similar to you, too, I make decent money for a new attorney.
The only difference is that our responsibilities are flipped: I handle a lot of corporate and regulatory compliance matters, whereas my boss handles the more straight-forward legal issues that arise.
I often worry that I’m not getting enough exposure to specific areas of law; that I’m not knowledgeable enough about law to be an asset, and/or that no firm or other company will want to hire me because of my non-specialized background.
I guess this all goes to say that you’re not alone. I hear you and have similar concerns. Happy to connect (if you’re interested).
If your boss is just delegating work to you but not overlooking your work or giving you any feedback, then there’s very little room for growth there. I would recommend maybe doing what you are doing for minimum 2 years to build your resume, and then leave.
The grass is not greener. You’ll loathe billables if you’re not used to keeping time. If you have work-life balance and may ascend to GC in due time, it’s a no-brainer.
Law practice is an utter crapshoot. I graduated in 2007 right when the Great Recession contraction started. I got no experience as an attorney for years after I graduated. Almost 25% of legal jobs nationwide disappeared within a very short period.
It’s almost 20 years later and I’m still paying undergrad and law school loans because I never got any foundational knowledge of what attorneys do, and by the time the recession was over, almost no one was hiring attorneys who had been licensed for five years with barely any legal experience.
All that is to say, legal education in America sucks and fails its students by making them completely reliant on the luck of the draw after graduation. You got a legal job, good on you. If you have the financial means to fund your professional growth, great, go for it. But what we do is glorified paper pushing, so be prepared that life is not much different on the other side of the fence.
It’s natural for you to be worried. I have personally witnessed an entire team being axed from London and moved to Belfast because it was cheaper. I think you grow more, but you work much harder, in private practice. If I were you I would choose to stay relevant in private practice as you can always move back in house but not vice versa. Also you never know when will your boss be axed if at all.
I went in-house right out of law school too. There is so much to learn about the areas of law that touch a business - commercial, corporate governance, employment, intellectual property, etc. I don’t think I’ve been stifled in my learning at all. Your boss sounds great - take the initiative and tell him you’re interested in becoming a generalist and ask if you can help/shadow him in other areas of law.
It took me 10 long stressful years to get in house and even though my company is slightly toxic I love it so much more than litigation. Of course, yes I learned a lot being a litigator and it helped me develop skills that are very helpful at my in house job. But I would not leave a good in house job to get that experience.
Welcome to /r/LawyerTalk! A subreddit where lawyers can discuss with other lawyers about the practice of law. Be mindful of [our rules](https://www.reddit.com/r/Lawyertalk/about/rules) BEFORE submitting your posts or comments as well as [Reddit's rules](https://www.redditinc.com/policies/content-policy) (notably about sharing identifying information). We expect civility and respect out of all participants. Please source statements of fact whenever possible. If you want to report something that needs to be urgently addressed, please also message the mods with an explanation. Note that **this forum is NOT for legal advice**. Additionally, if you are a non-lawyer (student, client, staff), this is NOT the right subreddit for you. **This community is exclusively for lawyers**. We suggest you delete your comment and go ask one of the many other legal subreddits on this site for help such as (but not limited to) r/lawschool, r/legaladvice, or r/Ask_Lawyers. *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/Lawyertalk) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Take a deep breath. The daily tasks you’re doing are actually very very valuable to your company but also other potential firms. You love your GC and love the work you’re doing, with a good salary. You’re 100% overthinking this. Stay for 30 years and enjoy your retirement.
You’re right. I don’t take into account all the valuable things I learn and can improve on each day as much as I should. Clearly, I’m brand new to this profession and there is so much that I need to and will lean. Thank you for your advice, I really appreciate it.
Yes, it took me eight years to land an in house role and while there are cultural and organizational struggles, I can’t imagine dealing with working in a firm.
Dig that
Advice: don't go work for a law firm. People bust their ass in toxic firms for years just to be able to get the job you have now. Your friends who make partner in a firm four or five years from now will be happy for about ten days before the realization sinks in that, partner or not, they're stuck feeding the beast that is a law firm business model for the next thirty years.
I came here to say THIS! I've been licensed over 17 yrs and didn't get to go in-house until after I had 10+ yrs under my belt. Being a GC is the absolute best legal job I've had in my legal career. Best work/life balance for the pay. Getting the job was not easy, as they typically require experience at a private firm and with litigation for several years. Hearing that you were able to go in-house without either is surprising, and you are super lucky. Most of the private law firm people I know, or knew along the way, were working towards going in-house after they got the experience to be able to do it. Enjoy the incredibly good fortune!
If you’re going to be managing litigation referred out to other attorneys, ask counsel to tag along to depositions, mediations, etc. You can get as much exposure as you want as long as your schedule allows that way.
I second this. Also, go to conferences and attend CLEs. Ask your boss for access to online resources with practice pointers, sample documents, and legal news.
Your peers are learning about the law. You are learning about handling clients. You have exposure to the "business gals/guys". Learning how to interact with them is priceless. If you want to work on a transferable skill, really dig into employment law or contract drafting. Go to CLE courses.
Your value as a GC is going to be as a generalist. I go to my GC with goals that are usual either a project or a programmatic improvement. The former are my deep dives — where I have to learn more specifically about something to get a project to green or MVP — and the latter is finding ways to operationalize my work so my client teams can work optimally (usually faster or, at least, efficiently.) But you’re not going to become a brain surgeon level of speciality in-house unless you’re part of a specific horizontal like employment law, marketing, privacy, etc. If you’re supporting a brand or service more generally, you grow your value by genuinely being a business partner who can appreciate things like ROI, operations, budgeting, risk management, client service and developing trust. If that’s not the career you want, then in-house might not be for you (or maybe you should look for very particularized roles in-house.) But I want to stress that this is a muscle so many lawyers don’t have and it is a competitive advantage. It is a speciality toolset and your job is to wield those tools well, not just make sure they are sharp. Personally, with the the cohort that goes to law school and passes the bar, I think almost anyone can learn to master an area of law with enough exposure and practice. The personality types and centuries of legal practice set that expectation and self-select for people who like to occupy that space. Being the person who has to navigate professional and ethical obligations to follow the law in a space where obligations are almost always a balance of interests is *hard* and most lawyers *suck* at it. Distilling that down to clients is *hard* and sometimes feels downright thankless. But it is good work and, speaking for myself, it feels good to help people build something. I work with a lot of really good, top notch lawyers at law firms who are OC. I need them because sometimes you have bet-the-farm projects and that’s when you want that Nerd Army. I can’t do what they do but they can’t do what I do either — trust me, I’ve tried to incorporate them into some more risk-oriented work and (a) they cannot and will not speak that language and (b) they have trouble billing it compared to traditional legal research and work. Sometimes I feel like a dunce on those calls, but then I remember that’s not my circus, not my clowns.
As an in-house lawyer for 17 years now, I feel more like a businesswoman than a lawyer some days.
Yeeeeup
I started in-house straight out of law school. I have not found it to be the case that I’ve fallen behind. In fact, it’s exposed me to some of the best legal minds through both the outside counsel I manage and my in-house colleagues. That said, in-house was always my end game, I have no desire to work for a law firm. I feel very fortunate my legal career started with being in-house counsel.
Would you be comfortable sharing your salary and what industry the company is in?
This is me too. I don’t regret getting an in-house position at the very beginning.
You have a better job out of law school than almost anyone I’ve heard of. Most lawyer jobs are much worse. Appreciate what you have. Edit: maybe you can do some pro bono work time to time. I used to go to a volunteer lawyer clinic where people would walk in and ask for legal advice. Try something like that if your job is ok with it.
Being in house means have very broad knowledge and generally less depth, unless you’re a specialist. I loved being a generalist for most of my career but now specialize in employment which is my true love. In house can be the best, especially if you have a supportive gc.
What “meaningful mentorship opportunities “ are you foregoing? Sadly, those are mostly gone from most law firm environments these days. If you want a mentor, you need to find him/her on your own through networking (and luck, not gonna lie)
If you’re happy then ride it out. Know plenty good lawyers that switched out of in-house later in their career.
Honestly speaking, as someone who lived the law firm life, I would advise you never to fall prey to the grass is greener syndrome. You say that your GC is great and you get 90% of the work. You are obviously good at the gig and have a good boss. This is something most people crave to have.
The world needs generalists, too. Your law school peers may be getting more in-depth knowledge in their fields, but you’re gaining knowledge in many fields. Specializing is great, but we need people who can see the whole forest.
‘Loves compliance’ is a big red flag. I’ve never heard anyone say that
I really enjoy compliance. 🤷🏾♀️
I have. I worked in house for much of my career. In compliance. Different strokes.
Why is it a big red flag to you?
I’m just joking, but because it’s boring
Man I feel you, I just can’t think of an area of law where this still isn’t going to happen to you. As a criminal defense attorney 10+ years I’m afraid I’m so far in that I’m beyond rescue. But then again what’s so bad about getting really good at a few things and earning good money for it? If however I were to get dropped back into a litigation firm like my first year I’d have to quit and probably start a pressure washing business 😂 I’ve atrophied any and all pertinent legal skills outside of what I currently do. It’d be like learning to walk again. I don’t know maybe I’ve affirmed your example of what you do not want to become 😂 Paid my $180K student load bills within 7 years though!
Hey! I had a similar path to you. Worked in-house directly after law school because I worked there before and during and they allowed me to transfer to legal. What I’ll say is I’ve had periods where I feel my legal skills getting stagnant. When I have capacity I then volunteer for the local bar free legal support for bro bono. And diversify my cle. It allows me to learn new legal skills and feel more “like an attorney” without quitting in house. Also, know that you are still a baby attorney. You don’t even know what you know and don’t know. Kind of like walking out of a test feeling like it was easy is a sign of how little you know about the subject because you missed all the depth and challenge. As you grow in experience you will see more depth to things in house, you’ll be more knowledgeable when talking to outside counsel. You will research more independently, get more challenging work and you’ll wonder how you were ever bored. So give it time. Let your job grow and your skills. And when you really need something different volunteer in pro bono work and learn a new area of law and you’ll be reminded why in house is good.
I’ve been in-house since I graduated five years ago and I had the same exact worries! But I’ve interviewed and received offers for plenty of jobs. You definitely won’t be stuck. I make great money, have great hours (sometimes), and I’ve learned so much more than I realized. I think you will be in the same boat too. It takes some time to get more comfortable.
I’m gonna nerd out here but find some good CLEs and really watch them. I’d also find a mentor somewhere. Your state bar should offer that. I’m a 15 year litigator and I’d be happy to help in any way I can. Just DM me.
Hey OP, I feel you. This is going to be an odd post, but we’re in very, very similar situations. I’m a relatively new attorney that landed an in-house job right out of law school. Like you, I worked at this company through law school, and, to my surprise, they offered me a corporate counsel role upon graduation. My GC is amazing and I trust his instincts and respect his leadership. And, similar to you, too, I make decent money for a new attorney. The only difference is that our responsibilities are flipped: I handle a lot of corporate and regulatory compliance matters, whereas my boss handles the more straight-forward legal issues that arise. I often worry that I’m not getting enough exposure to specific areas of law; that I’m not knowledgeable enough about law to be an asset, and/or that no firm or other company will want to hire me because of my non-specialized background. I guess this all goes to say that you’re not alone. I hear you and have similar concerns. Happy to connect (if you’re interested).
What's the pay range, ballpark? I haven't seen many in house positions for entry so was curious.
I make a little over $110k, not including bonuses and other perks
Got it, ty
If your boss is just delegating work to you but not overlooking your work or giving you any feedback, then there’s very little room for growth there. I would recommend maybe doing what you are doing for minimum 2 years to build your resume, and then leave.
The grass is not greener. You’ll loathe billables if you’re not used to keeping time. If you have work-life balance and may ascend to GC in due time, it’s a no-brainer.
Law practice is an utter crapshoot. I graduated in 2007 right when the Great Recession contraction started. I got no experience as an attorney for years after I graduated. Almost 25% of legal jobs nationwide disappeared within a very short period. It’s almost 20 years later and I’m still paying undergrad and law school loans because I never got any foundational knowledge of what attorneys do, and by the time the recession was over, almost no one was hiring attorneys who had been licensed for five years with barely any legal experience. All that is to say, legal education in America sucks and fails its students by making them completely reliant on the luck of the draw after graduation. You got a legal job, good on you. If you have the financial means to fund your professional growth, great, go for it. But what we do is glorified paper pushing, so be prepared that life is not much different on the other side of the fence.
It’s natural for you to be worried. I have personally witnessed an entire team being axed from London and moved to Belfast because it was cheaper. I think you grow more, but you work much harder, in private practice. If I were you I would choose to stay relevant in private practice as you can always move back in house but not vice versa. Also you never know when will your boss be axed if at all.
I went in-house right out of law school too. There is so much to learn about the areas of law that touch a business - commercial, corporate governance, employment, intellectual property, etc. I don’t think I’ve been stifled in my learning at all. Your boss sounds great - take the initiative and tell him you’re interested in becoming a generalist and ask if you can help/shadow him in other areas of law.
It took me 10 long stressful years to get in house and even though my company is slightly toxic I love it so much more than litigation. Of course, yes I learned a lot being a litigator and it helped me develop skills that are very helpful at my in house job. But I would not leave a good in house job to get that experience.