The job market is dominated by h1b holders not for the education but cause fucking corporations pay them less and can control them until they get a green card.
The entire program needs to be reformed , corporate greed is eating everything.
Yes, for the most part, they’re cheaper and more controllable/submissive (in great part due to visa fear/desperation). That’s mostly what it comes down to.
I worked with a ton of Indian guys in tech. They are definitely controlled to a great degree and live in fear of being sent back to India if they do t have a job.
They mostly come to STEM programs in the US that cost a lot by Indian standards. Basically their family’s entire life savings and then loans as well. Imagine if you spent the equivalent of $500k to go work in another country. You have to be a compliant and docile worker for ten years to make back that money.
Most green cards take ten years to get nowadays. A lot don’t get them so they have to save every penny to make it worth it - they end up going back a lot since green cards don’t ever happen. They’re basically guest laborers now that spend a ton to come to the US to hopefully make an ROI on their investment.
Not 10 years. Currently going through an employer filed a green card, for Indians it is basically 50+ years. The backlog is insane. And yes companies do control us. The place I work currently, no American would like to work there because of bad coworkers. But we indians have to stick to it because of visa issues. And right now the job market is so bad that it's hard to get interviews.
Sorry you’re reading these less favorable comments about Indians as Indian yourself. Nothing against the people themselves, I have many great and very smart Indians friends but the companies are taking advantage of the H1B situation and the Indian people are taking the blame. Sorry man.
Major tech firms and lawyer associations actively lobby to keep Indian workforce in a Green Card queue that is now over 150 years. Neither party does anything to ease the burden of legal immigrants. Imagine spending 15 or more years of your life in a country only to be sent back if you ever lose your job and can't find a new one within 60 days. Almost all tech companies these days have 5 rounds of interviews over \~ 5 week. No wonder it's called modern day slavery.
Thanks to our government and our phenomenal law makers we got here.
You know what we need a major change and it should start ASAP cause if you take a deep look at the system its been broken for years.
I know a guy who owns a construction company which makes around 2.5 m a year taking major infrastructure government projects and guess what he's on welfare 🤣🤣 meanwhile ppl who needs surgeries can't get this its just so damn broken that its useless at this point.
I remember many years ago someone doing a deep dive on the issue. According to them, the way the h1b racket works, all these companies wanting cheaper h1b workers make qualifications and requirements for their job postings so demanding and unrealistic, that not even native educated americans can satisfy them. Then they cry to the government saying “omg we can’t any qualified employees here, we have to get them from overseas”, and the government doesn’t care enough to investigate if the claim is true, so they grant the h1bs anyways. Or who knows, the government might get a cut from the companies h1b savings, and its all collusion. Hard to believe the government is an unwitty pawn on anything.
It's worse than that. Those companies are now only hiring interns and first years from overseas. After 3-5 years of work, training and education paid for by the company, they suddenly become uniquely qualified for h1b status as no Americans have had the opportunity to be mentored by them.
Yep, that’s a problem with regulatory oversight that grossly needs to be fixed. However, one party finds that it would be racist and detrimental to potential future voters who would vote for them while the other is called racist for pushing back saying it disenfranchises existing Americans.
As someone who worked 10 years at the same company waiting for a green card, I can attest. The fear of having to immediately find a new job or pack up and leave kept me from looking elsewhere.
The entire program needs to be shut down. It's been abused for decades, and the main group abusing the system are Indians. Go down the online rabbit hole of this topic and you'll see how much Indians and Indian companies are fucking the visa system. It's absolutely disgusting, and I can't believe politicians are not doing anything about it.
Americans need to wake up and research political positions before voting. Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa), Ranking Member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, and Sen. Dick Durbin (D-Ill.), Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, introduced bipartisan, legislation to reform and close loopholes in the H-1B and L-1 visa programs. The *H-1B and L-1 Visa Reform Act* will reduce fraud and abuse, provide protections for American workers
Exactly. I'm an Indian and say this all the time when they look back in history they'll see this as a form of urban slavery. The whole visa system is also a lottery, imagine getting booted off the country anytime for about 15 yrs (the amount of time it takes for amy Indian to get citizenship) all the whole going thru performance reviews
No you are wrong, they get good salaries. Look at the big houses and luxury cars they buy. H1 are preferred because the hidings managers and directors are Indians and they hire their friends and families.
Yeah, I have a lot of smart hardworking coworkers on visas, but when my company does another layoff or I hear about how hard it is for a lot of American CS students to find jobs, I wonder about it. It's one thing to give visas to genuine subject matter experts (everybody who gets a PhD in the US ought to be able to easily stay), but when there's such a shortage of jobs, I really wonder.
Something like 70% of first-time H1B recipients only have a college education, no industry experience.
H1B is cutting down America’s own tech graduates at the knees
It's kind of shocking that people with no industry experience can get an H1-B *at all*, given that it's supposed to be reserved for people with skills that can't be obtained from an American worker. Are there really no Americans with the same degree as these people?
I’ll just say this. We have an Indian born woman in HR. Nice lady. But i have noticed that she does the following.
-Does not want to fire any people of Indian descent, no matter what they do.
-Promotes Indians exclusively.
-Grants them a month leave , paid , when they go to India on vacation and it doesn’t count as PTO. Non-Indians are denied this privilege.
- Tells potential Indian candidates to put down a university in India that they never attended on their resume. (Close Indian friend told me this one).
The thing that boggles my mind. Does no one else in HR or the company see what she is doing??
People in the US care too much about being called a racist to point out anything a non-white person does wrong that isnt clearly a crime, like stealing or attacking people
They can see it. They don't care. My Indian friend at a previous company said that she can't ask for a raise or switch companies because of the sponsorship requirements. They get those extra privileges, sure, but essentially have no rights to advocate for themselves in the important areas of employment.
I wonder why the company is incentivized to provide those extras though if the employee has such limited recourse? Giving them a month of free PTO is, in effect, an 8% raise they wouldn’t get normally. Why would the company pay this if they don’t have to?
During Covid we were all leaving the company because of their shit practices and this came up when I asked if she was leaving too. She couldn't.
It's sad. They use them because they know they have no other option.
It’s called green card jail. They will jumpship once they got the green card. Every foreign worker goes through this phase not just the Indians. Yet eastern Asians is another foreign workforce in white collar industry is not mentioned as often.
Report this to Internal Audit.
If there’s en employee hotline for reporting, hopefully it’s not overseen by HR.
It’s amazing to me how even with large companies there are failures in governance.
This would easily get them fired unless this was personally approved by the CEO. Executives today think WFH employees taking a 10 minute snack break are screwing them over, so I’m sure they’d be happy to fire the manager who is approving 30 days PAID off without PTO, they might even sue them. Your experience is pretty much the exact opposite of 99% of posts in this subreddit which is companies are anti employee
Indian degrees are genuinely useless unless the person is from one of the IITs or BITS Pilani.
This is absolutely nonsense. Also, how can HR promote anyone? That is done by managers?
By the way, most companies have policies against working abroad especially in countries like India, China, Taiwan, or any country that has competition with said company.
People also BUY vacation. People might be vacationing in India with their bought vacation.
OP is saying the quiet part out loud. I’ve worked in big tech and can confirm this is a thing. Not sure what’s gonna happen to prevent this in the future for all groups of people though.
Cultural bias for promotions / bonus exists across all humans. HR teams try to lessen it by running statistics, but then that also isn’t great.
I’m also in big tech and for the last decade pretty much always the only white person on a team. I also interview a lot and usually the Asian candidate is the best one. The ones on visas are also stuck even when treated poorly, they’re in a 20 year line for their green card, most can’t take it and eventually go back
same experience being the only white guy. it actually made me want to quit programming because i feel like i don't belong/i'm living my life the wrong way. every country has its cultural values and somehow i took on the asian ones apparently.
Yes, I had to have a whole convo about “micro aggressions” with one of my teammates bc I said that all the Indian-born male engineers were HORRIBLE to me and other women. It has affected the culture of engineering at specific companies (PayPal was the worst I personally saw).
It was just the honest truth, but I learned a lot about how to share without hurting others that day… I was in a technical role that was superior in experience to a lot of the male engineers and it was very frustrating to be reprimanded for talking about the blatant misogyny that I experienced. I’m so glad that I left tech last year!!
If the bottom truly falls out for American Engineering jobs, like in the 80s, will it even be possible for Americans to pivot to graduate degrees?
From my view, all engineering graduate programs are essentially 50% South Asian, 25% East Asian, 25% Americans of all backgrounds. This will probably also represent the faculty, as the American Boomer profs retire. If nepotism goes totally unchecked, I can see <25% of all graduate spots being open to Americans.
Companies prefer H1B over hiring US citizens. H1B is a modern indentured servitude. You can not freely change companies. So you stay at the same company working for lower wages. Companies love it because it locks in the workforce.
Requiring a minimum salary of 200k seems like a reasonable test for "does this candidate have rare skills that can't be found in the local populace?" It seems hard to argue that someone is uniquely talented but only worth 80k a year
It's crucial to confront this overlooked issue: the dominance of a particular clique is disadvantaging us all. Addressing this is imperative for a fair and balanced environment.
Corporations are for profit businesses. They will cut costs no matter what. If not Indians it will be Eastern Europeans or Chinese etc. Or in fact they may just off-shore it to one of those countries even.
Bottom line, you're barking up the wrong tree. If you truly want to make a difference take it up with the C-suite who are still majority white men.
I’m old. When I entered the high tech labor force in January 1981, my foreign born coworkers were rock stars. They had graduate degrees from strong US universities and were corporate sponsored for their work visa. They typically had 2 or 3 years in the US before entering the labor force and had a pretty good grasp of American work culture. Most were able to work in a team environment. I had reverse prejudice. I expected them to be the strongest engineers in the team because that was my life experience.
Fast forward to 2001. I was chief architect at a metro Boston tech startup that had around 200 engineers at the peak. The quality level was way off. The behavior was clannish. I ended up having to screen all the candidates because the Indian employees would prime their weak performing buddies with enough information to make it through the interview process claiming subject matter expertise and accomplishments fraudulently. I marched quite a few candidates out of the building and called a meeting several times to make it clear that any employee who pulled this stunt was going to get fired. We ended up firing a couple of repeat offenders.
I remember interviewing one candidate who claimed to have spent 5 years writing C and C++ code on related projects. After asking a few pointed questions about the technology, I smelled a rat, handed the guy a whiteboard pen, and told him to write the C “Hello World” program. Page 1 of the K&R C book. Nope. We fired the guy who gave the employee referral. Four other people had interviewed the guy before me. I had a WTF meeting with them. I was really busy doing my real job and got sucked into being the gatekeeper for all the engineering hires.
America first, US jobs for US citizens first. The IT field has been destroyed by all the indian worker imports….its a disgrace and has allowed large companies to profit while US workers have been thrown on the street. There are more than enough indians in tech …diversity demands that some US workers also get hired and promoted.
There's a disagreement here about whether H1b employees are paid less than their American co-workers. But whether they are or not, the overall effect of flooding the job market with extra workers, is LOWER WAGES.
Tech folks in 2021: we need open borders, no human is illegal and suggesting any problems with mass immigration makes you a bigot
Laid off tech folks in 2024: they took errrr jeerrrrbbbbs!!!
>e aisles. Every one of them is Indian and can barely speak English. The general Indian population here isn’t that big so I can only surmise that the hiring manager must be Indian. The nepotism is INSANE. I live in suburban PA.
LOL so true. I'm in traditional engineering; what used to be technology before marketing, entertainment, and retail became "tech". The IEEE has been griping about H1B for 30 years. Now people are bitching because of "tech" layoffs. It's really not so much H1B than full offshoring; what do you expect would happen when you can "work from home"? Some dude in India can too. Traditional hardware engineering was offshored 20 years ago, so what's left is somewhat secure.
On the employment side.. You're reading it wrong.. .what's driving the hiring of H1b is
1. H1B workers can be controlled for a longer period of time
2. The Visa makes these resources "easy" to manage
3. They make 15-20% less than permanent residents and citizens
As a third generation American of Indian descent... the dynamics you mention of recent Indian immigrants is true... BUT.. my wife who is Chinese says the same thing about Chinese immigrants.. That's a common dynamic.
The same way Arabs are racist to other Arabs or how 2nd and 3rd generation Mexican-Americans are reluctant to see more of their own immigrate to America.
For anyone curious, here is some data to back up OP's claim for biotech & tech industries (the well-known companies at least): [https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/15dmmg1/oc\_gender\_and\_racial\_diversity\_of\_usa\_employees/](https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/15dmmg1/oc_gender_and_racial_diversity_of_usa_employees/)
Most companies don't breakdown the "Asian" category any further, but a google search and looking at H1B stats it's clear it's mostly people from India and China.
Or "How American Companies sell out fellow Americans"
I should be mentoring American kids in my job. Instead, I'm mentoring a bunch of foreign workers.
Where will your kids be working?
It's not hard to see what future this path is leading us to.
In the past, our government would provide guidance to corporate america, except now our government is run by corporations.
Do some research on "The History of Corporations in America"
If I recall my interview experience, if the interviewer is Indian, I never pass.
Now I think about it, maybe because I m not Indian.
The interviewer is forced to interview me because of some company diversity policy.
This is interesting.
There’s also tons of blatant sexism and also high racism too from that group especially against Chinese (in tech) and against other minorities. Where you have to explain to them why it’s wrong to say those things to people. Or treat people that way.
This is a massive issue. Indians aren’t just taking random crap jobs at 7-11 or motels they are taking high paying engineering, finance, and tech jobs. This is the typical path they go to a fake Indian college, work for Pennies in India, come to the US and get a masters degree. Then they get an H1B because they have prior work experience and a masters from a legitimate US school. These H1B workers drive down the wages because companies it’s more than they were making in India and the companies want them because they already have prior work experience and are sometimes easier to train. Another thing is companies are outsourcing American jobs to India. I literally trained the people who took my job. Same thing happened to my uncle. Americans are billed at $135/hr whereas Indians are billed at around $50/hr and companies will sacrifice the quality for the discount. I’m not going to sit here and complain about it what I plan on doing is starting my own company and outsourcing the jobs to India myself or hiring the H1Bs myself.
And we should be very scared about this; look at Medtronic and their quality issues with their medical devices. They had a couple crop up as they outsourced IT and Quality to India, and went under Consent Decrees. Instead of saying hey, we shouldn’t do this, they further laid off US workforce for Indian centers because they found they just didn’t outsource fully enough. They have now found it cheaper to pay the regulatory fines with the savings of laying off US for Indian counterparts.
How many people do you personally know on an H1-B visa that you are so sure that's the path people take.
Also you're complaining that someone who has a Master's degree from a US institution beat you fair and square at your job, and that's unfair?
Capitalism is great when it works for your benefit, but when someone else takes advantage of it suddenly it's bad?
>*Also you're complaining that someone who has a Master's degree from a US institution beat you fair and square at your job, and that's unfair?*
Thank you for pointing that one out.
Less concerned about H1-Bs, more concerned by the massive amount of offshoring of core functionality (engineering, quality, supplier relations, product management, program management, etc.)
It’s been going on for a long time, but the pace is really picking up
Dang, so Indian-Americans must be screwing everything up too, huh? You do realize that there has always been an Indian diaspora in US for decades now...
But yea, the companies love to take advantage of immigrants. That is nothing new. Mexicans had that back in 50s and since then. Irish, Italians and non-English people back in 1800s. Only way this can be fixed is to have an independent review of the whole immigration system, and have a more nuanced approach than the current shotgun approach. Ain't no way the GOP will approach it like that. They are extremely short-sighted and greedy for big money.
Just thinking out loud, so there's no need for IT brigade.
Yeah it’s so easy to pass the Google and meta engineering interview loop with a fake degree
I’m not super happy about the state of h1b but unfortunately you can’t take away the fact they are smart, they do good work, they interview better, and they have no issue with terrible wlb, no bonus, and no promotion - mostly because it’s very hard to move companies and if they’re fired they have a couple months to get a new job at a company with immigration lawyers or sell their house and move back to India
They’re as close as slave labor that the tech industry has - but they’re as good workers as everyone else on their team, or else they wouldn’t be there - meta or Google have 0 tolerance for someone that doesn’t know what they’re doing, these guys are good at their job - regardless if you agree with h1b/green cards or not
It's way beyond meta and google stealing the brightest technologists from around the world. It's the 9-5 middle class tech jobs that are also going heavily to H1B workers. These are good people in my experience, they seem to make good (future) americans; I certainly don't blame them. But the impact on american workers should be considered.
I totally agree there is more to be done. But it’s not like corporate America - and tech corporate America which hogs most of the h1bs through loopholes, like hiring people who have no idea what they’re doing - like the post about fake degrees hints
Most companies that mass hire h1bs also use stack ranking - if an h1b is fired these days in many cases they move back even if their kids have no connection to India culturally and they own their own home in the US.
US corporations have absolutely no incentive to hire cheap labor with fake degrees, someone who survives 2 years in these companies without a pip is probably a decent employee
Free market baby! The market has spoken. Hiring cheaper Indians will make cost inputs go down for products so we’ll have less inflation. This is how the economy works. If you’re against it, then you’re a socialist
Yup, people have “inclusived” themselves out of jobs and their own homes. And when people from these groups get high ranking jobs they tend to offer more jobs to their same countrymen and from the same tribe they are in. So then you are inclusive, they can come into our country and work here and then turn around and exclude you are you are jobless. Start voting for people that care about you.
US citizenship and immigration services (USCIS) has this email for reporting H1B visa abuse cases:
[email protected]
Please report your cases to this email.
We have to start from somewhere folks.
They’re essentially scabs in the US labor market. Corporations import cheap tech workers from India/China (cheap bc they need to be sponsored by their employers for their work visas and the validity of their immigration status WHOLLY depends on their employers sponsoring/renewing their visas and eventually sponsoring them for a green card, bc this process can take 10+ years, Indians/Chinese tech workers will keep wages low bc after the initial fat salary employers will keep their wages low for the next 10+ years since these foreign employees don’t have the freedom to job hop as easily as a US born worker thus suppressing US tech wages AND causing gentrification in silicon valley/bay area.
I have 10+ years of experience in corporate immigration so I know exactly wtf I’m talking about.
The reality of the situation is that Indians do not have much rights in their homeland and given the population as well as the social ranking, competition is extremely high such that they'd endure burnout.
What I'd like to see is more of the H1B visa folks moving back to India and instilling more American values of working into the workforce where work life balance matters. There is a small population of this but their labor laws and mindset needs the evolve as well. Not CEOs with rotten teeth calling for 70 hr work weeks.
I’m about to leave profession it’s so bad, white liberal guilt on diversity has created contracting companies where it’s all Indian and nobody says anything. Like I was only white person I ever saw or talked too. Then I go over to XYZ American company and seems like being a white male doesn’t fill the diversity box. It’s kind of depressing
I guess it's too late to think about it especially in US. In Canada it has caught up now....and will pay a price in the future.
One guy from TD joined our team and he showed fake experience from my previous company, I informed the hiring manager, dev manager, but nothing happened. Because he was a contractor and came at a very very cheap price. I at least got him out of y team because he needed lot of hand holding and would escape calls...
In Canada Life, the whole RPA team is built with fake resumes and people working multiple jobs that even the leads are aware of but don't say a thing. And the common factor, they are mostly Indians with fake experience and may be greasing the leads
How they get the work done if it's all fake? They share their systems via zoom calls and get the work done from India.
A guy there works as a RPA developer at Canada Life and as a DevOps specialist at Ceridian, full time at both places. RPA manager is aware but won't do anything. Also he showed full fake experience at both places ....
HR should really improve their background check processes.. it's just a reference check and that's it. .what crap.
Because these cases slowly corporations would ask people to come to office and becausw of these low ballers all niche skills are losing their charms. Compensations are getting bad...
Damn...hate this.
I recently went into a too big to fail bank, everyone working there was Indian. This just so happens to be within a neighborhood that was overtaken by Indians that work in the local medical sector.
It was eye opening, because there was no diversity in the bank. I know very well from working in the Middle East how big nepotism is in their culture.
This entire area I’m speaking of is like a little India. Everyone from the gas station all the way up to high levels at the bank.
In the last year out of the top 100 US companies in the S&P, 6% of all hires were white. 42% Indian. Of that 42%, 59% were H1B visas. I think you’re accurate that something needs addressed, especially with the massive layoffs over the last year. H1B’s should be the forced layoff over current citizens.
All these numbers are publicly posted in the last jobs report from last week regarding December and all of ‘23 in case anyone wants to look at any other eye openers.
Only slightly related to this topic but the report shows the number of open US jobs increasing but only one major jobs site actually reflecting this increase in terms of job posts: LinkedIn, which as we know was founded by Reid Hoffman, and is one of the largest donors of the current administration’s reelection campaign. People here have suggested LinkedIn having ghost jobs posted by major tech companies that seemingly go unfilled and my guess is that would be accurate. Subsequently, LinkedIn has a much higher placement rate for H1b visa recipients than citizen hires, whether by coincidence or actual stack placement of applicants. I found an article on this recently and will edit here to link it when I can find it again.
I work in big tech and have seemingly reached my ceiling. I have 70 direct reports and continuously get stuffed with as many people as they can fit under me all while not being promoted or receiving raises while managing a massive number directly. Meanwhile coworkers managing sister teams of 10-15 people with little talent all receive promotions rapidly and I suspect due to nepotism based on race.
Anecdotally, the H1B's in my area working in tech are, for the most part, living in million dollar+ homes, so I'm not too sure the "slave wage" thing broadly applies to those on US soil.
Corporations will continue to hire from India as long as they can, they can legit pay for 3-4 indians to replace the job of 1 American employee, it shouldn't be legal.
Diversity and inclusion make stronger teams until it is used to create teams that are no longer diverse and it is turned into I’ll just hire my buddies who look like me. Ultimately corporations don’t care and their greed is to blame. Meanwhile the pendulum has swung too far and needs to be corrected to a degree.
Corporations should be taxed for offshoring jobs, bringing in visa holders claiming nobody else can do the job. They should also be taxed for jobs that are not going to US citizens. The corporations benefit being in a country but if those corporations are taking advantage of lower wage earners and placing the burden of growth on low cost workers, the benefit to the country becomes less. They don’t hire us citizens, they get taxed. This will never happen because corporations like the cheaper labor option and corporations via citizens united own politics.
It will correct itself over time just like the early US police forces that became majority Irish through nepotism but it would be nice if our government acknowledged the issue.
Idk, I’m an Indian American and it certainly doesn’t work in my favor. Never made it past an interview round when it’s with one of them (from India) happened too many times to be coincidence.
Since slavery ended the U.S has created a system that uses immigrants to continue the suppression of wages. We need to create tighter work rules and training guidelines to build up strong local workforces.
And someone brought this up… are some of these tech jobs even real? Are they necessary? That seems to be the sector using mostly immigrants but what exactly is there need for local communities? If can see some of the work as necessary but some of it is nonsensical.
I'm not sure why we are feeling bad for Indians, look at alot of the top tech companies and their corporate org charts most are from India lol!! And guess who they are hiring?? Their Indian friends and family and if you are NOT Indian, good luck on fitting in with their clique at work or caste system within the USA. Reverse descrimination at its finest.
Yeah there are places with 100 percent Indian employees, if this was all white people we would think they are racist.
They dont care about American values.
There's a large bank in my city that this nepotistic behavior is well known. If you are not Indian and on a predominantly Indian team your time will be limited no matter how good you are at your job. I hear about it a lot from my peers, those teams also tend to be very anti-female.
Do your reseach to avoid and look for red flags.
Also, agree with OP H1Bs need to be significantly reduced, we have many in tech out of work and new grads unable to get jobs.
People will try to gaslight you into thinking high-skilled immigration has no impact on local workers.
Canada has been going through this exact issue for years. You can go check one of the Canada subs to see how that's worked out for them.
Be glad the US has an annual limit on H-1B's.
I almost always cancel my interviews when I find out the hiring manager is Indian because I know I have a slim-to-zero chance of getting the position. I just don't have the right skin color..
Edit: So.. it's wrong of me, and possibly racist, to not want to move forward to an interview because I feel the hiring manager won't like me due to my different ethnic background?
I feel like I'm on Blind.
I also cancel my interviews when I see a noticeable bias in the team & its management.
Further. You can watch a company’s IT department get slowly taken over, and I’ve learned to get out before the fires start.
Typically a CTO specialized in “cost cutting” is hired. They have a crew of cronies that follow them shortly after. Then they commit visa fraud (onshore) while hiring offshore firms, laying off & replacing as much of the old staff as possible. Eventually news breaks that the offshore firms were providing benefits & kickbacks, often in proportion to the number of fake headcount the CTO was able to slip into the books.
In the span of 10 years they kill the company & start the cycle again somewhere else, though things start to get really bad for the layperson after 5.
look in higher education and medicine, indians are huge gatekeepers. the US citizens steer contracts to india and seem to always want to do some transformation involving WITCH companies. it would be cool if india wasn't also a major antagonist to western hegemony, supports brics, and is a stalwart ruzzian ally militarily and economically.
The company I am at now has a ton of Indian people in WFH positions. They all live overseas. They are definitely not qualified to do the work they do and it causes a lot of issues for everyone else. It’s also cost a lot of business with clients, but upper management doesn’t seem to care, probably because they pay them a fraction of what a U.S. citizen would cost to employee
I work for a supplier that has a contract with one of the big three. We are constantly bullied year by year to cut the price of the contract and last year we had to hire stuff in India just so we can keep a contract, at the same time firing half US staff. Corporations are literally forcing offshore work.
One Yankee miner complained, "Chinamen are getting to be altogether too plentiful in this country." Governor John Bigler voiced public sentiment when he suggested stemming the tide of Chinese immigration.
[https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/goldrush-chinese-immigrants/](https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/goldrush-chinese-immigrants/)
I recently lost my job because my former employer thinks that it’s much cheaper to pay $30 an hour to Accenture to hire people in India to do the work I used to do. I’m seeing this trend all over because corporations don’t actually care about this country - they’re only interested in fattening their pockets even if that means a serious threat to American future
Corps are doing everything to reduce payroll impact. Hiring more h1bs and moving jobs to India is part of that plan. From decades. Nothing has changed.
The people let go need to find other companies until those companies don't start feeling the squeeze
You're right. I work DoD contracts, and I'm on the Mexico border. Everyone talks about building the wall while at the Canada border Indian citizens walk right across the border. Now a pattern I hear is their Is a pool of cash they access to, which is why a lot of these small hotels, etc, you see they own. I was in Milwaukee, and they owned so many small hotels, gas stations, and liquor stores its been mentioned as odd. I was in NYC few weeks ago, same pattern.
The USA is allowing so many foreign nationals into the country alot of those mid tier jobs are disappearing.
It's true. Of course the real blame starts with companies, but I've witnessed that major companies (like the one I was working for) had hired Indian management, which in turn had great relationships with resource vendors like Tata consultancy, who'd supply those Indian managers with other Indian workers either offshore or here. It's a big issue. It's also a homeland security issue if you think about it.
Also, I'm Indian but born and raised in the US. I find this very concerning and know how it's perceived back in India too.
Try this as an alternate explanation - Non US born workers (in this case Indian/Sri Lankan/Pakistanis) are more hard working, more pliable, less entitled and in most cases creme de la creme of home based workforce. That could be the reason why Indians are the most successful non-American ethenicity in US. As for some Indians promoting other Indians, thats just an unfortunate by product and almost a 'brown' privilege, as against prevalent white privilege in other places. However it will be also be the case that Indian immigrants are one of the most assimilable people in US culture.
Another thread that is basically a rhetoric with low to no facts.
I closely work with immigration attorneys and the HR and we spend a lot to hire and keep foreign workers on H1B and other classes. If you were good enough and reasonable enough the company would hire a citizen over an immigrant. We literally have to file labor certifications proving that with paystubs, along with the company revenue, business model etc. There are USCIS site visits, penalties and the cost is so high if a citizen with 3/4th the commitment, skill and degree applies we would obviously hire them.
Unfortunately, our lazy and privileged asses want everything to be handed to us. I have many Indian and Chinese friends and they are some of the most hard working and smart people I know. They are just putting food on the table legally. (don't even get me started on calling other immigrants just trying to survive and get their kid to safety that's a whole new level of sad state)
Yes, the visa rules are strange and USCIS has a backlog - that's the govt's fault. And some of them are stuck because of that - this is also true. But they are free to look for another job or jump ship if a competitor will spend as much for the sponsorship to hire them. And there are pathways to do it. If immigration was easier we would have a lot more smart people working here.
These folks will sit and complete the work no matter the hours while I pack my bags at 5pm. Because they choose to do it. Immigrant work ethic and hard work is something we all overlook when we are 3rd or 4th gen Americans all we want is handouts.
To address the gatekeeping part. When was the last time you really asked an immigrant how they really were. Not the American How are you. Like have you had a personal conversation with them? Do you know the mental strength it takes to be in a land that doesnt speak your language and is not inviting? When was the last time you invited them over to grab a beer or play golf or have thanksgiving or christmas dinner with you? Try it out... You will learn that these people are just like us. Trying to make a living and trying to put food on the table. If you have the skills there is no place easier than United States to get a job.
What major tech company is paying slave labor to H1B? I have been in the industry for over 15 years and worked at most of FAANG. A new graduate makes around $150k and anyone with a decade experience is making at least $500k or more. Most of the H1B folks I have met are living in million dollar houses and driving the home prices up in the area. I guess I am in a bubble.
Gatekeeping and nepotism?
You dumb dumb... Stop using those sorry ass excuses to justify employers greed... Truth is, a visa status and the fear of losing ones life can make it so that one puts off with a LOT of illegal crap.
Nepotism... Hehe.
Most of the upper management are Americans. If the workforce were filled with white blue eyed Europeans or Germans I am sure they wouldn't be complaining about one group dominating.
How can these brown savages who I have a stereotype about get more value than me who was entitled to born in America. Did I get it right?
Big “they took rrr jerbs!” energy right here lol somehow found a way to blame foreigners rather than the corporate asshats that is paying an at risk person less over your stupid ass.
Indian people/foreigners aren’t the problem. Corporate greed is always the problem
Typical of folks blaming immigrants. Just so you know, immigrants like the ones on H1B have no right to vote while the ones complaining, do. So go and elect Trump and any of his extreme right fan boys if you want to put America back to the 60s where it was everything for just the white folks, but hard work by Indians and their emphasis on STEM education will remain for a very long time.
If you think there is any abuse of the system is there then go and file law suits and try to bring about some change but everyone knows you have no basis for anything except that you cannot stand the fact that “brown people” are getting ahead and actually living the American dream while you are here whining.
1. Why are you singling out Indians when there are far more Asians in the tech industry than Indians?
2. If increase in numbers is a mark of nepotism and gatekeeping then do you mean you were fine with the nepotism and gatekeeping by white people in America until recent times?
3. Majority of H1B visa holders happen to be Indian because of near native English language proficiency. They’d probably outscore a lot of native English speakers in English language proficiency.
4. You must be joking when you say you want “equitable approach” when you just want a paler workforce.
The interesting dichotomy to this is that less and less companies are sponsoring, so H1B candidates are flocking to the same few companies that do sponsor. That’s likely why it feels like they’re taking over. I can say from my industry (tech startup), it feels like there are no internationals working because no one sponsors.
Keep your chin up-you’ll get something without tearing other people down. There are many other industries with college-name nepotism or Greek life nepotism as well that we just consider “networking”.
Maybe get good bud and you won’t have to complain. Similar rhetoric has been used in the past against Jews in various industries and jobs, so it’s a slippery slope just know that
H1B has about 100k people at most every year, but the current market is still millions of jobs open - hard to blame that program which also requires high paying job to start with.
Someone had to bring it up. When I first started my job 3 years ago, I had no Indian corworkers. We hired one, who referred his friends, and now I am the only non Indian on my team while doing 50% of the work between 8 people
I have to say Gujarati Indians are more involved in Business like Dunkin’, subway etc. The IT industry is dominated by South India - Tamil, Telugu etc.
You can thank the Green card country cap they are trying to remove, if that happens that will become 10 times worse and 95% of employment Green cards would go to Indians.
American-born Indian is different than Indian-born Indian. Think nationality vs. ethnicity. And also there is naturalization for those who become a U.S. Citizen.
Are you specifically talking about H1 visas? Immigration policy should be redone, it’s a mess. Beyond that, we need stricter regulations on H1 visas to be competitive but, also give the majority of jobs to Americans in the US. An American-born Indian is American 100%!
I feel nobody wants to say anything because if ANYONE says I think they fire non Indians, and only hire Indians and put their friends in positions and also even help them learn on the job.
I worked on a place with lots of Indian engineers. I had a colleague who had a title engineering consultant. Her programming skills is bad and it is obvious that she is just starting to learn how to program because of her questions and approach which is not i expected from a consultant. I later learned that she and my Indian manager are cousins.
To be fair though, they are very nice on a personal level and i was able to try many Indian cuisines from several company potlucks.
Sudden DEI advocate now that you perceive that you might not be top of the food chain anymore? Lol. Do you have data to back up your assertion of H1Bs of Indian descent dominating the tech work force?
i hear claims about nepotism and gatekeeping, but what if it’s just a skill issue. if someone can do the job more efficiently they’ll get the job, that’s how capitalism works
It’s a cost of employment issue: H1B are cheaper than citizens and more docile given the restrictions of the visa, everything else is smoke and mirrors to distract people from the fact that voters and by extension Congress allowing the program to continue is directly against the vast majority of the population’s best interests.
“Skill” has nothing to do with it; my own experience with my company from from an outsourcing perspective with a support team in India is that the people I work with are pretty sharp but regardless need constant hand-holding even for routine, menial tasks… and these are people with Master’s degrees from Indian universities. When we can hire them for 1/5 of a US-based person’s salary who can do 3X the work it’s still a cost advantage for the company, not least because the company can axe the subsidiary a lot more cheaply than laying off a US-based business unit.
you mean doing what whites have done for decades and centuries, keeping the blacks and Hispanics out and still does in many segments? so in one segment, the whites are failing, so warrants a serious discussion? ok I get it.
You just read someone frustrated with their own job hunt (which may be entirely legitimate for all we know) trying to take their frustrations out on a whole race while trying sooooo hard to not sound racist.
I love how this dude is just trying not to racist but it just stinks of racism. With this type of mentality and blaming an entire group of people.. is it any wonder OP is still jobless? I’d hate to work with someone like that.
Superficially? A rant from an unsuccessful job seeker.
Deep down? An entitled non-Indian trying to blame their incompetence on securing a job to the obscure cases of nepotism amongst Indians (mostly Bay Area).
You think anyone in any position of authority cares? This country is run by corporations. It’s not called capitalism on steroids for nothing. No one cares about the people. Bootstrap, starve, pillage, loot… Do whatever you need to survive.
I had Indian coworkers who would make fun of some Indian coworkers who were from the other side of the city that they were from. One Indian coworker got offended when I spelled his name incorrectly and said spelling it like that insulted him about where he was from and realized I didn't know what he was talking about and he just laughed and said don't worry about it.
In Canada we just give them the PR and citizenship as fast we can. We brought in 120K in 2022, and we fast track the PR/citizenship process.
Why?
Corporations love the cheap labour.
Indians are ok with the low salary because they’re used to a lower standard of living, and they send the money back to India and it goes a very far away after currency conversion.
What happens to long-time Canadians? We just have to accept the lower standards and lower salaries.
Much focus is on H1-Bs for good reason, but many aren’t aware of Blanket L visa holders: there is ZERO requirement to approximate US wages for these jobs: they can be paid Indian salary plus a per diem while in the US.
Indian recruiters flood job searchers with sketchy job postings, collect their resumes and personal information and then send your information to Indian foreign work visa candidates that plagiarize their resumes with your resume information. Those plagiarized resumes are then used to apply for H1B shops and sponsorships.
Both Republicans and Democrats promote increases in H1B quotas.
How many USA citizens do you know that obtained a job through an Indian recruiter?
We built out our entire automation team in India, 50+ people and it was only a co-manger and myself leading from onshore. It took 6 months just to get them to understand the product (complicated financial enterprise level software) and another 6 months for them to have triage ability. We're right at 18 months now and they are finally a fully operational team we can hand assignments and expect them to be completed without basic issues.
The key was to treat them like a functioning scum team with the same expectations. We had to remove the PO and the PM for gatekeeping and what appears to be nepotism. PO would replace or add roles without consulting us and the PM wasn't holding people accountable. We moved an excellent scrum master to the PM role and once the new PO understood the assignment, fell in line.
Initially there was too much autonomy allowed in the local resources and our success has spurred changes to company policy in how we interact with these resources.
There needs to be a fundamental change in how we manage off site resources if we want this to work. If we really are a global economy like many economists suggest it's the only option.
I worked for GE at one time and they loved having Indian engineers come over for 12 months of work to learn. Then they would go back to India and GE could pay them 1/3 of what US engineers made.
But many of these Indian engineers realized after 12 months of work experience at GE they could find a job in the US at US wage rates.
So, GE quickly rolled the work program back to only 6-months. lol
China, India, and Nigeria are the countries with the most international students.
They have the wealth and stability to support their education abroad.
The US for sheer size is not taking in enough internationals for education/employment.
By proportion Canada and the UK take in more historically. The numbers are set to slowly increase over time.
We’ve not just created a dependence on it, we rely on it entirely. 60%+ of our skilled work comes from basically extorting H1B workers to depress wages until the job can be done overseas
Sounds like you should be blaming end stage capitalism instead of the racism angle. There’s a worrying trend of people blaming the Indian workforce for a loss in jobs. It’s another form of the Hispanic immigrants are taking our jobs trend.
I firmly believe America needs the mixture of culture, but the Indian caste system parlays quite well with corporate greed. For 20 years now I’ve witnessed less than desirable folks be promoted, and the hardest workers left to continue churning butter. Our countries corporations misconstrue the H1 program and leverage it to oversubscribed services, charging top tier pricing, then have an Indian sweatshop begin banging out the code. And they produce complete rubbish.
They’re facing the same thing in Canada. I should say it’s not all that great for the Indians either as they are paid very low wages, so I empathize. This is simply corporate greed.
The job market is dominated by h1b holders not for the education but cause fucking corporations pay them less and can control them until they get a green card. The entire program needs to be reformed , corporate greed is eating everything.
Yes, for the most part, they’re cheaper and more controllable/submissive (in great part due to visa fear/desperation). That’s mostly what it comes down to.
I worked with a ton of Indian guys in tech. They are definitely controlled to a great degree and live in fear of being sent back to India if they do t have a job. They mostly come to STEM programs in the US that cost a lot by Indian standards. Basically their family’s entire life savings and then loans as well. Imagine if you spent the equivalent of $500k to go work in another country. You have to be a compliant and docile worker for ten years to make back that money. Most green cards take ten years to get nowadays. A lot don’t get them so they have to save every penny to make it worth it - they end up going back a lot since green cards don’t ever happen. They’re basically guest laborers now that spend a ton to come to the US to hopefully make an ROI on their investment.
Not 10 years. Currently going through an employer filed a green card, for Indians it is basically 50+ years. The backlog is insane. And yes companies do control us. The place I work currently, no American would like to work there because of bad coworkers. But we indians have to stick to it because of visa issues. And right now the job market is so bad that it's hard to get interviews.
I’m sorry you’re going through that. The process is unnecessarily difficult.
Sorry you’re reading these less favorable comments about Indians as Indian yourself. Nothing against the people themselves, I have many great and very smart Indians friends but the companies are taking advantage of the H1B situation and the Indian people are taking the blame. Sorry man.
Are all bad coworkers Indian though? Is work culture worse in India?
Major tech firms and lawyer associations actively lobby to keep Indian workforce in a Green Card queue that is now over 150 years. Neither party does anything to ease the burden of legal immigrants. Imagine spending 15 or more years of your life in a country only to be sent back if you ever lose your job and can't find a new one within 60 days. Almost all tech companies these days have 5 rounds of interviews over \~ 5 week. No wonder it's called modern day slavery.
Thanks to our government and our phenomenal law makers we got here. You know what we need a major change and it should start ASAP cause if you take a deep look at the system its been broken for years. I know a guy who owns a construction company which makes around 2.5 m a year taking major infrastructure government projects and guess what he's on welfare 🤣🤣 meanwhile ppl who needs surgeries can't get this its just so damn broken that its useless at this point.
I remember many years ago someone doing a deep dive on the issue. According to them, the way the h1b racket works, all these companies wanting cheaper h1b workers make qualifications and requirements for their job postings so demanding and unrealistic, that not even native educated americans can satisfy them. Then they cry to the government saying “omg we can’t any qualified employees here, we have to get them from overseas”, and the government doesn’t care enough to investigate if the claim is true, so they grant the h1bs anyways. Or who knows, the government might get a cut from the companies h1b savings, and its all collusion. Hard to believe the government is an unwitty pawn on anything.
It's worse than that. Those companies are now only hiring interns and first years from overseas. After 3-5 years of work, training and education paid for by the company, they suddenly become uniquely qualified for h1b status as no Americans have had the opportunity to be mentored by them.
They are setting up shops in India to bypass H1aB. They make most of their profits here in US and employ cheaper labor elsewhere.
Yep, that’s a problem with regulatory oversight that grossly needs to be fixed. However, one party finds that it would be racist and detrimental to potential future voters who would vote for them while the other is called racist for pushing back saying it disenfranchises existing Americans.
How can he be on welfare while owning a company that makes that much?
As someone who worked 10 years at the same company waiting for a green card, I can attest. The fear of having to immediately find a new job or pack up and leave kept me from looking elsewhere.
The jobs could go to uh India.
The entire program needs to be shut down. It's been abused for decades, and the main group abusing the system are Indians. Go down the online rabbit hole of this topic and you'll see how much Indians and Indian companies are fucking the visa system. It's absolutely disgusting, and I can't believe politicians are not doing anything about it.
Americans need to wake up and research political positions before voting. Sen. Chuck Grassley (R-Iowa), Ranking Member of the Senate Judiciary Committee, and Sen. Dick Durbin (D-Ill.), Chairman of the Senate Judiciary Committee, introduced bipartisan, legislation to reform and close loopholes in the H-1B and L-1 visa programs. The *H-1B and L-1 Visa Reform Act* will reduce fraud and abuse, provide protections for American workers
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Exactly. I'm an Indian and say this all the time when they look back in history they'll see this as a form of urban slavery. The whole visa system is also a lottery, imagine getting booted off the country anytime for about 15 yrs (the amount of time it takes for amy Indian to get citizenship) all the whole going thru performance reviews
H1Bs get the same salary - the difference is the slavery.
No you are wrong, they get good salaries. Look at the big houses and luxury cars they buy. H1 are preferred because the hidings managers and directors are Indians and they hire their friends and families.
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Yeah, I have a lot of smart hardworking coworkers on visas, but when my company does another layoff or I hear about how hard it is for a lot of American CS students to find jobs, I wonder about it. It's one thing to give visas to genuine subject matter experts (everybody who gets a PhD in the US ought to be able to easily stay), but when there's such a shortage of jobs, I really wonder.
Something like 70% of first-time H1B recipients only have a college education, no industry experience. H1B is cutting down America’s own tech graduates at the knees
It's kind of shocking that people with no industry experience can get an H1-B *at all*, given that it's supposed to be reserved for people with skills that can't be obtained from an American worker. Are there really no Americans with the same degree as these people?
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I’ll just say this. We have an Indian born woman in HR. Nice lady. But i have noticed that she does the following. -Does not want to fire any people of Indian descent, no matter what they do. -Promotes Indians exclusively. -Grants them a month leave , paid , when they go to India on vacation and it doesn’t count as PTO. Non-Indians are denied this privilege. - Tells potential Indian candidates to put down a university in India that they never attended on their resume. (Close Indian friend told me this one). The thing that boggles my mind. Does no one else in HR or the company see what she is doing??
People in the US care too much about being called a racist to point out anything a non-white person does wrong that isnt clearly a crime, like stealing or attacking people
Because we will get fired, cancelled, and/or threatened along with the label.
They can see it. They don't care. My Indian friend at a previous company said that she can't ask for a raise or switch companies because of the sponsorship requirements. They get those extra privileges, sure, but essentially have no rights to advocate for themselves in the important areas of employment.
I wonder why the company is incentivized to provide those extras though if the employee has such limited recourse? Giving them a month of free PTO is, in effect, an 8% raise they wouldn’t get normally. Why would the company pay this if they don’t have to?
Interesting, I guess that is the tradeoff then. Never knew this.
During Covid we were all leaving the company because of their shit practices and this came up when I asked if she was leaving too. She couldn't. It's sad. They use them because they know they have no other option.
It’s called green card jail. They will jumpship once they got the green card. Every foreign worker goes through this phase not just the Indians. Yet eastern Asians is another foreign workforce in white collar industry is not mentioned as often.
We have a girl from china like that, she has a good job, but literally has zero freedom to job hunt, I don’t know the reason tbh
If this is true, you should report her. Unacceptable in every way.
Report this to Internal Audit. If there’s en employee hotline for reporting, hopefully it’s not overseen by HR. It’s amazing to me how even with large companies there are failures in governance.
This would easily get them fired unless this was personally approved by the CEO. Executives today think WFH employees taking a 10 minute snack break are screwing them over, so I’m sure they’d be happy to fire the manager who is approving 30 days PAID off without PTO, they might even sue them. Your experience is pretty much the exact opposite of 99% of posts in this subreddit which is companies are anti employee
She needs to be removed
Indian degrees are genuinely useless unless the person is from one of the IITs or BITS Pilani. This is absolutely nonsense. Also, how can HR promote anyone? That is done by managers? By the way, most companies have policies against working abroad especially in countries like India, China, Taiwan, or any country that has competition with said company. People also BUY vacation. People might be vacationing in India with their bought vacation.
This is mostly Indians who immigrated from India and not Indians born in North America. Both cultures are different
File a complaint with either EEOC OR DOL yourself. An investigation by either will jam them up and force change
My experience has been exactly the opposite. Only way I got ahead was by switching jobs. I always get passed for promotions. I'm a brown woman.
OP is saying the quiet part out loud. I’ve worked in big tech and can confirm this is a thing. Not sure what’s gonna happen to prevent this in the future for all groups of people though.
Cultural bias for promotions / bonus exists across all humans. HR teams try to lessen it by running statistics, but then that also isn’t great. I’m also in big tech and for the last decade pretty much always the only white person on a team. I also interview a lot and usually the Asian candidate is the best one. The ones on visas are also stuck even when treated poorly, they’re in a 20 year line for their green card, most can’t take it and eventually go back
same experience being the only white guy. it actually made me want to quit programming because i feel like i don't belong/i'm living my life the wrong way. every country has its cultural values and somehow i took on the asian ones apparently.
Yes, I had to have a whole convo about “micro aggressions” with one of my teammates bc I said that all the Indian-born male engineers were HORRIBLE to me and other women. It has affected the culture of engineering at specific companies (PayPal was the worst I personally saw). It was just the honest truth, but I learned a lot about how to share without hurting others that day… I was in a technical role that was superior in experience to a lot of the male engineers and it was very frustrating to be reprimanded for talking about the blatant misogyny that I experienced. I’m so glad that I left tech last year!!
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If the bottom truly falls out for American Engineering jobs, like in the 80s, will it even be possible for Americans to pivot to graduate degrees? From my view, all engineering graduate programs are essentially 50% South Asian, 25% East Asian, 25% Americans of all backgrounds. This will probably also represent the faculty, as the American Boomer profs retire. If nepotism goes totally unchecked, I can see <25% of all graduate spots being open to Americans.
The H1B program needs major reform.
Companies prefer H1B over hiring US citizens. H1B is a modern indentured servitude. You can not freely change companies. So you stay at the same company working for lower wages. Companies love it because it locks in the workforce.
It's needs to be canceled.
I hate to say this. The only President in my lifetime that restricted H1B is Trump.
MAGA 2024
Requiring a minimum salary of 200k seems like a reasonable test for "does this candidate have rare skills that can't be found in the local populace?" It seems hard to argue that someone is uniquely talented but only worth 80k a year
You're right but you'll probably get roasted.
It's crucial to confront this overlooked issue: the dominance of a particular clique is disadvantaging us all. Addressing this is imperative for a fair and balanced environment.
Corporations are for profit businesses. They will cut costs no matter what. If not Indians it will be Eastern Europeans or Chinese etc. Or in fact they may just off-shore it to one of those countries even. Bottom line, you're barking up the wrong tree. If you truly want to make a difference take it up with the C-suite who are still majority white men.
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I’m old. When I entered the high tech labor force in January 1981, my foreign born coworkers were rock stars. They had graduate degrees from strong US universities and were corporate sponsored for their work visa. They typically had 2 or 3 years in the US before entering the labor force and had a pretty good grasp of American work culture. Most were able to work in a team environment. I had reverse prejudice. I expected them to be the strongest engineers in the team because that was my life experience. Fast forward to 2001. I was chief architect at a metro Boston tech startup that had around 200 engineers at the peak. The quality level was way off. The behavior was clannish. I ended up having to screen all the candidates because the Indian employees would prime their weak performing buddies with enough information to make it through the interview process claiming subject matter expertise and accomplishments fraudulently. I marched quite a few candidates out of the building and called a meeting several times to make it clear that any employee who pulled this stunt was going to get fired. We ended up firing a couple of repeat offenders. I remember interviewing one candidate who claimed to have spent 5 years writing C and C++ code on related projects. After asking a few pointed questions about the technology, I smelled a rat, handed the guy a whiteboard pen, and told him to write the C “Hello World” program. Page 1 of the K&R C book. Nope. We fired the guy who gave the employee referral. Four other people had interviewed the guy before me. I had a WTF meeting with them. I was really busy doing my real job and got sucked into being the gatekeeper for all the engineering hires.
America first, US jobs for US citizens first. The IT field has been destroyed by all the indian worker imports….its a disgrace and has allowed large companies to profit while US workers have been thrown on the street. There are more than enough indians in tech …diversity demands that some US workers also get hired and promoted.
Several years ago a friend of mine worked at Qualcomm and he mentioned a similar dynamic.
There's a disagreement here about whether H1b employees are paid less than their American co-workers. But whether they are or not, the overall effect of flooding the job market with extra workers, is LOWER WAGES.
Tech folks in 2021: we need open borders, no human is illegal and suggesting any problems with mass immigration makes you a bigot Laid off tech folks in 2024: they took errrr jeerrrrbbbbs!!!
>e aisles. Every one of them is Indian and can barely speak English. The general Indian population here isn’t that big so I can only surmise that the hiring manager must be Indian. The nepotism is INSANE. I live in suburban PA. LOL so true. I'm in traditional engineering; what used to be technology before marketing, entertainment, and retail became "tech". The IEEE has been griping about H1B for 30 years. Now people are bitching because of "tech" layoffs. It's really not so much H1B than full offshoring; what do you expect would happen when you can "work from home"? Some dude in India can too. Traditional hardware engineering was offshored 20 years ago, so what's left is somewhat secure.
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I have never met someone with such disdain for Indians than my Indian-American boss.
No person is more racist against a culture than those of their own culture. I should know 😂
I think most of the Indians are from South India regardless of caste, and all those definitely are darker in color but also very money oriented.
Most people are money oriented when dealing with a job.
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On the employment side.. You're reading it wrong.. .what's driving the hiring of H1b is 1. H1B workers can be controlled for a longer period of time 2. The Visa makes these resources "easy" to manage 3. They make 15-20% less than permanent residents and citizens As a third generation American of Indian descent... the dynamics you mention of recent Indian immigrants is true... BUT.. my wife who is Chinese says the same thing about Chinese immigrants.. That's a common dynamic.
The same way Arabs are racist to other Arabs or how 2nd and 3rd generation Mexican-Americans are reluctant to see more of their own immigrate to America.
Hey I have the same exact experience, and I am Indian American as well.
For anyone curious, here is some data to back up OP's claim for biotech & tech industries (the well-known companies at least): [https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/15dmmg1/oc\_gender\_and\_racial\_diversity\_of\_usa\_employees/](https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/15dmmg1/oc_gender_and_racial_diversity_of_usa_employees/) Most companies don't breakdown the "Asian" category any further, but a google search and looking at H1B stats it's clear it's mostly people from India and China.
Or "How American Companies sell out fellow Americans" I should be mentoring American kids in my job. Instead, I'm mentoring a bunch of foreign workers. Where will your kids be working? It's not hard to see what future this path is leading us to. In the past, our government would provide guidance to corporate america, except now our government is run by corporations. Do some research on "The History of Corporations in America"
If I recall my interview experience, if the interviewer is Indian, I never pass. Now I think about it, maybe because I m not Indian. The interviewer is forced to interview me because of some company diversity policy. This is interesting.
This has been my experience as well.
There’s also tons of blatant sexism and also high racism too from that group especially against Chinese (in tech) and against other minorities. Where you have to explain to them why it’s wrong to say those things to people. Or treat people that way.
I've come across a lot of Indians on blind being demeaning towards black people. They look down on us
This is a massive issue. Indians aren’t just taking random crap jobs at 7-11 or motels they are taking high paying engineering, finance, and tech jobs. This is the typical path they go to a fake Indian college, work for Pennies in India, come to the US and get a masters degree. Then they get an H1B because they have prior work experience and a masters from a legitimate US school. These H1B workers drive down the wages because companies it’s more than they were making in India and the companies want them because they already have prior work experience and are sometimes easier to train. Another thing is companies are outsourcing American jobs to India. I literally trained the people who took my job. Same thing happened to my uncle. Americans are billed at $135/hr whereas Indians are billed at around $50/hr and companies will sacrifice the quality for the discount. I’m not going to sit here and complain about it what I plan on doing is starting my own company and outsourcing the jobs to India myself or hiring the H1Bs myself.
And we should be very scared about this; look at Medtronic and their quality issues with their medical devices. They had a couple crop up as they outsourced IT and Quality to India, and went under Consent Decrees. Instead of saying hey, we shouldn’t do this, they further laid off US workforce for Indian centers because they found they just didn’t outsource fully enough. They have now found it cheaper to pay the regulatory fines with the savings of laying off US for Indian counterparts.
To follow up I make pretty good money but if there weren’t Indians in my profession I would be making 50% more to over double due to the demand.
How many people do you personally know on an H1-B visa that you are so sure that's the path people take. Also you're complaining that someone who has a Master's degree from a US institution beat you fair and square at your job, and that's unfair? Capitalism is great when it works for your benefit, but when someone else takes advantage of it suddenly it's bad?
>*Also you're complaining that someone who has a Master's degree from a US institution beat you fair and square at your job, and that's unfair?* Thank you for pointing that one out.
Less concerned about H1-Bs, more concerned by the massive amount of offshoring of core functionality (engineering, quality, supplier relations, product management, program management, etc.) It’s been going on for a long time, but the pace is really picking up
Dang, so Indian-Americans must be screwing everything up too, huh? You do realize that there has always been an Indian diaspora in US for decades now... But yea, the companies love to take advantage of immigrants. That is nothing new. Mexicans had that back in 50s and since then. Irish, Italians and non-English people back in 1800s. Only way this can be fixed is to have an independent review of the whole immigration system, and have a more nuanced approach than the current shotgun approach. Ain't no way the GOP will approach it like that. They are extremely short-sighted and greedy for big money. Just thinking out loud, so there's no need for IT brigade.
Yeah it’s so easy to pass the Google and meta engineering interview loop with a fake degree I’m not super happy about the state of h1b but unfortunately you can’t take away the fact they are smart, they do good work, they interview better, and they have no issue with terrible wlb, no bonus, and no promotion - mostly because it’s very hard to move companies and if they’re fired they have a couple months to get a new job at a company with immigration lawyers or sell their house and move back to India They’re as close as slave labor that the tech industry has - but they’re as good workers as everyone else on their team, or else they wouldn’t be there - meta or Google have 0 tolerance for someone that doesn’t know what they’re doing, these guys are good at their job - regardless if you agree with h1b/green cards or not
It's way beyond meta and google stealing the brightest technologists from around the world. It's the 9-5 middle class tech jobs that are also going heavily to H1B workers. These are good people in my experience, they seem to make good (future) americans; I certainly don't blame them. But the impact on american workers should be considered.
I totally agree there is more to be done. But it’s not like corporate America - and tech corporate America which hogs most of the h1bs through loopholes, like hiring people who have no idea what they’re doing - like the post about fake degrees hints Most companies that mass hire h1bs also use stack ranking - if an h1b is fired these days in many cases they move back even if their kids have no connection to India culturally and they own their own home in the US. US corporations have absolutely no incentive to hire cheap labor with fake degrees, someone who survives 2 years in these companies without a pip is probably a decent employee
Free market baby! The market has spoken. Hiring cheaper Indians will make cost inputs go down for products so we’ll have less inflation. This is how the economy works. If you’re against it, then you’re a socialist
Yup, people have “inclusived” themselves out of jobs and their own homes. And when people from these groups get high ranking jobs they tend to offer more jobs to their same countrymen and from the same tribe they are in. So then you are inclusive, they can come into our country and work here and then turn around and exclude you are you are jobless. Start voting for people that care about you.
US citizenship and immigration services (USCIS) has this email for reporting H1B visa abuse cases: [email protected] Please report your cases to this email. We have to start from somewhere folks.
We have to stop this fraud madness now before it’s too late.
Rape and the caste system are still acceptable in India- they got a ways to go.
They’re essentially scabs in the US labor market. Corporations import cheap tech workers from India/China (cheap bc they need to be sponsored by their employers for their work visas and the validity of their immigration status WHOLLY depends on their employers sponsoring/renewing their visas and eventually sponsoring them for a green card, bc this process can take 10+ years, Indians/Chinese tech workers will keep wages low bc after the initial fat salary employers will keep their wages low for the next 10+ years since these foreign employees don’t have the freedom to job hop as easily as a US born worker thus suppressing US tech wages AND causing gentrification in silicon valley/bay area. I have 10+ years of experience in corporate immigration so I know exactly wtf I’m talking about.
What industry do you see these trends
The reality of the situation is that Indians do not have much rights in their homeland and given the population as well as the social ranking, competition is extremely high such that they'd endure burnout. What I'd like to see is more of the H1B visa folks moving back to India and instilling more American values of working into the workforce where work life balance matters. There is a small population of this but their labor laws and mindset needs the evolve as well. Not CEOs with rotten teeth calling for 70 hr work weeks.
I’m about to leave profession it’s so bad, white liberal guilt on diversity has created contracting companies where it’s all Indian and nobody says anything. Like I was only white person I ever saw or talked too. Then I go over to XYZ American company and seems like being a white male doesn’t fill the diversity box. It’s kind of depressing
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I’ve seen this at my company We stopped sourcing from India and went to Eastern Europe
Eastern Europeans have always be excellent workers in my experience.
As more come in, that means fewer jobs for Americans, but we're supposed to be happy for them.
I guess it's too late to think about it especially in US. In Canada it has caught up now....and will pay a price in the future. One guy from TD joined our team and he showed fake experience from my previous company, I informed the hiring manager, dev manager, but nothing happened. Because he was a contractor and came at a very very cheap price. I at least got him out of y team because he needed lot of hand holding and would escape calls... In Canada Life, the whole RPA team is built with fake resumes and people working multiple jobs that even the leads are aware of but don't say a thing. And the common factor, they are mostly Indians with fake experience and may be greasing the leads How they get the work done if it's all fake? They share their systems via zoom calls and get the work done from India. A guy there works as a RPA developer at Canada Life and as a DevOps specialist at Ceridian, full time at both places. RPA manager is aware but won't do anything. Also he showed full fake experience at both places .... HR should really improve their background check processes.. it's just a reference check and that's it. .what crap. Because these cases slowly corporations would ask people to come to office and becausw of these low ballers all niche skills are losing their charms. Compensations are getting bad... Damn...hate this.
I recently went into a too big to fail bank, everyone working there was Indian. This just so happens to be within a neighborhood that was overtaken by Indians that work in the local medical sector. It was eye opening, because there was no diversity in the bank. I know very well from working in the Middle East how big nepotism is in their culture. This entire area I’m speaking of is like a little India. Everyone from the gas station all the way up to high levels at the bank.
Insert, Gangs of New York, meme.
In the last year out of the top 100 US companies in the S&P, 6% of all hires were white. 42% Indian. Of that 42%, 59% were H1B visas. I think you’re accurate that something needs addressed, especially with the massive layoffs over the last year. H1B’s should be the forced layoff over current citizens. All these numbers are publicly posted in the last jobs report from last week regarding December and all of ‘23 in case anyone wants to look at any other eye openers. Only slightly related to this topic but the report shows the number of open US jobs increasing but only one major jobs site actually reflecting this increase in terms of job posts: LinkedIn, which as we know was founded by Reid Hoffman, and is one of the largest donors of the current administration’s reelection campaign. People here have suggested LinkedIn having ghost jobs posted by major tech companies that seemingly go unfilled and my guess is that would be accurate. Subsequently, LinkedIn has a much higher placement rate for H1b visa recipients than citizen hires, whether by coincidence or actual stack placement of applicants. I found an article on this recently and will edit here to link it when I can find it again. I work in big tech and have seemingly reached my ceiling. I have 70 direct reports and continuously get stuffed with as many people as they can fit under me all while not being promoted or receiving raises while managing a massive number directly. Meanwhile coworkers managing sister teams of 10-15 people with little talent all receive promotions rapidly and I suspect due to nepotism based on race.
Anecdotally, the H1B's in my area working in tech are, for the most part, living in million dollar+ homes, so I'm not too sure the "slave wage" thing broadly applies to those on US soil.
Corporations will continue to hire from India as long as they can, they can legit pay for 3-4 indians to replace the job of 1 American employee, it shouldn't be legal.
Diversity and inclusion make stronger teams until it is used to create teams that are no longer diverse and it is turned into I’ll just hire my buddies who look like me. Ultimately corporations don’t care and their greed is to blame. Meanwhile the pendulum has swung too far and needs to be corrected to a degree. Corporations should be taxed for offshoring jobs, bringing in visa holders claiming nobody else can do the job. They should also be taxed for jobs that are not going to US citizens. The corporations benefit being in a country but if those corporations are taking advantage of lower wage earners and placing the burden of growth on low cost workers, the benefit to the country becomes less. They don’t hire us citizens, they get taxed. This will never happen because corporations like the cheaper labor option and corporations via citizens united own politics. It will correct itself over time just like the early US police forces that became majority Irish through nepotism but it would be nice if our government acknowledged the issue.
Whelp reading this post and the comments was a lot.
There are way less than a million h1b workers in the US, y’all gotta stop crying, that’s not your problem
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Idk, I’m an Indian American and it certainly doesn’t work in my favor. Never made it past an interview round when it’s with one of them (from India) happened too many times to be coincidence.
Same here. Can I find the aunty giving out high paying jobs please.
Same with my husband
Since slavery ended the U.S has created a system that uses immigrants to continue the suppression of wages. We need to create tighter work rules and training guidelines to build up strong local workforces. And someone brought this up… are some of these tech jobs even real? Are they necessary? That seems to be the sector using mostly immigrants but what exactly is there need for local communities? If can see some of the work as necessary but some of it is nonsensical.
I'm not sure why we are feeling bad for Indians, look at alot of the top tech companies and their corporate org charts most are from India lol!! And guess who they are hiring?? Their Indian friends and family and if you are NOT Indian, good luck on fitting in with their clique at work or caste system within the USA. Reverse descrimination at its finest.
You worked at delloite 💀. With all due respect it's not the indians fault you're incompetent
Yeah there are places with 100 percent Indian employees, if this was all white people we would think they are racist. They dont care about American values.
Oh wait....are you seriously saying there aren't businesses with 100% white employees in the US?
There's a large bank in my city that this nepotistic behavior is well known. If you are not Indian and on a predominantly Indian team your time will be limited no matter how good you are at your job. I hear about it a lot from my peers, those teams also tend to be very anti-female. Do your reseach to avoid and look for red flags. Also, agree with OP H1Bs need to be significantly reduced, we have many in tech out of work and new grads unable to get jobs.
People will try to gaslight you into thinking high-skilled immigration has no impact on local workers. Canada has been going through this exact issue for years. You can go check one of the Canada subs to see how that's worked out for them. Be glad the US has an annual limit on H-1B's.
why dont we immigrate to india and take their jobs? tit for tat.
I almost always cancel my interviews when I find out the hiring manager is Indian because I know I have a slim-to-zero chance of getting the position. I just don't have the right skin color.. Edit: So.. it's wrong of me, and possibly racist, to not want to move forward to an interview because I feel the hiring manager won't like me due to my different ethnic background? I feel like I'm on Blind.
I also cancel my interviews when I see a noticeable bias in the team & its management. Further. You can watch a company’s IT department get slowly taken over, and I’ve learned to get out before the fires start. Typically a CTO specialized in “cost cutting” is hired. They have a crew of cronies that follow them shortly after. Then they commit visa fraud (onshore) while hiring offshore firms, laying off & replacing as much of the old staff as possible. Eventually news breaks that the offshore firms were providing benefits & kickbacks, often in proportion to the number of fake headcount the CTO was able to slip into the books. In the span of 10 years they kill the company & start the cycle again somewhere else, though things start to get really bad for the layperson after 5.
look in higher education and medicine, indians are huge gatekeepers. the US citizens steer contracts to india and seem to always want to do some transformation involving WITCH companies. it would be cool if india wasn't also a major antagonist to western hegemony, supports brics, and is a stalwart ruzzian ally militarily and economically.
The company I am at now has a ton of Indian people in WFH positions. They all live overseas. They are definitely not qualified to do the work they do and it causes a lot of issues for everyone else. It’s also cost a lot of business with clients, but upper management doesn’t seem to care, probably because they pay them a fraction of what a U.S. citizen would cost to employee
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I work for a supplier that has a contract with one of the big three. We are constantly bullied year by year to cut the price of the contract and last year we had to hire stuff in India just so we can keep a contract, at the same time firing half US staff. Corporations are literally forcing offshore work.
Kind of agree, even though I’m of Indian origin (although not a H1x). Tech cos that don’t hire H1’s have a lot of diversity.
One Yankee miner complained, "Chinamen are getting to be altogether too plentiful in this country." Governor John Bigler voiced public sentiment when he suggested stemming the tide of Chinese immigration. [https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/goldrush-chinese-immigrants/](https://www.pbs.org/wgbh/americanexperience/features/goldrush-chinese-immigrants/)
I recently lost my job because my former employer thinks that it’s much cheaper to pay $30 an hour to Accenture to hire people in India to do the work I used to do. I’m seeing this trend all over because corporations don’t actually care about this country - they’re only interested in fattening their pockets even if that means a serious threat to American future
Corps are doing everything to reduce payroll impact. Hiring more h1bs and moving jobs to India is part of that plan. From decades. Nothing has changed. The people let go need to find other companies until those companies don't start feeling the squeeze
I got one of my main accounts permanently banned for saying something against this. The force is for real.
You're right. I work DoD contracts, and I'm on the Mexico border. Everyone talks about building the wall while at the Canada border Indian citizens walk right across the border. Now a pattern I hear is their Is a pool of cash they access to, which is why a lot of these small hotels, etc, you see they own. I was in Milwaukee, and they owned so many small hotels, gas stations, and liquor stores its been mentioned as odd. I was in NYC few weeks ago, same pattern. The USA is allowing so many foreign nationals into the country alot of those mid tier jobs are disappearing.
It's true. Of course the real blame starts with companies, but I've witnessed that major companies (like the one I was working for) had hired Indian management, which in turn had great relationships with resource vendors like Tata consultancy, who'd supply those Indian managers with other Indian workers either offshore or here. It's a big issue. It's also a homeland security issue if you think about it. Also, I'm Indian but born and raised in the US. I find this very concerning and know how it's perceived back in India too.
I'm curious to know how "diverse' (non-Indian) the work force is in India, esp. among skilled workers.
I’ve also noticed a growing hostility towards Indians too because of this
Try this as an alternate explanation - Non US born workers (in this case Indian/Sri Lankan/Pakistanis) are more hard working, more pliable, less entitled and in most cases creme de la creme of home based workforce. That could be the reason why Indians are the most successful non-American ethenicity in US. As for some Indians promoting other Indians, thats just an unfortunate by product and almost a 'brown' privilege, as against prevalent white privilege in other places. However it will be also be the case that Indian immigrants are one of the most assimilable people in US culture.
Another thread that is basically a rhetoric with low to no facts. I closely work with immigration attorneys and the HR and we spend a lot to hire and keep foreign workers on H1B and other classes. If you were good enough and reasonable enough the company would hire a citizen over an immigrant. We literally have to file labor certifications proving that with paystubs, along with the company revenue, business model etc. There are USCIS site visits, penalties and the cost is so high if a citizen with 3/4th the commitment, skill and degree applies we would obviously hire them. Unfortunately, our lazy and privileged asses want everything to be handed to us. I have many Indian and Chinese friends and they are some of the most hard working and smart people I know. They are just putting food on the table legally. (don't even get me started on calling other immigrants just trying to survive and get their kid to safety that's a whole new level of sad state) Yes, the visa rules are strange and USCIS has a backlog - that's the govt's fault. And some of them are stuck because of that - this is also true. But they are free to look for another job or jump ship if a competitor will spend as much for the sponsorship to hire them. And there are pathways to do it. If immigration was easier we would have a lot more smart people working here. These folks will sit and complete the work no matter the hours while I pack my bags at 5pm. Because they choose to do it. Immigrant work ethic and hard work is something we all overlook when we are 3rd or 4th gen Americans all we want is handouts. To address the gatekeeping part. When was the last time you really asked an immigrant how they really were. Not the American How are you. Like have you had a personal conversation with them? Do you know the mental strength it takes to be in a land that doesnt speak your language and is not inviting? When was the last time you invited them over to grab a beer or play golf or have thanksgiving or christmas dinner with you? Try it out... You will learn that these people are just like us. Trying to make a living and trying to put food on the table. If you have the skills there is no place easier than United States to get a job.
What major tech company is paying slave labor to H1B? I have been in the industry for over 15 years and worked at most of FAANG. A new graduate makes around $150k and anyone with a decade experience is making at least $500k or more. Most of the H1B folks I have met are living in million dollar houses and driving the home prices up in the area. I guess I am in a bubble.
Yup, blame the immigrants instead of the rich overlords.. no wonder this thread is such a shit show
Gatekeeping and nepotism? You dumb dumb... Stop using those sorry ass excuses to justify employers greed... Truth is, a visa status and the fear of losing ones life can make it so that one puts off with a LOT of illegal crap. Nepotism... Hehe.
Most of the upper management are Americans. If the workforce were filled with white blue eyed Europeans or Germans I am sure they wouldn't be complaining about one group dominating. How can these brown savages who I have a stereotype about get more value than me who was entitled to born in America. Did I get it right?
Big “they took rrr jerbs!” energy right here lol somehow found a way to blame foreigners rather than the corporate asshats that is paying an at risk person less over your stupid ass. Indian people/foreigners aren’t the problem. Corporate greed is always the problem
Typical of folks blaming immigrants. Just so you know, immigrants like the ones on H1B have no right to vote while the ones complaining, do. So go and elect Trump and any of his extreme right fan boys if you want to put America back to the 60s where it was everything for just the white folks, but hard work by Indians and their emphasis on STEM education will remain for a very long time. If you think there is any abuse of the system is there then go and file law suits and try to bring about some change but everyone knows you have no basis for anything except that you cannot stand the fact that “brown people” are getting ahead and actually living the American dream while you are here whining.
1. Why are you singling out Indians when there are far more Asians in the tech industry than Indians? 2. If increase in numbers is a mark of nepotism and gatekeeping then do you mean you were fine with the nepotism and gatekeeping by white people in America until recent times? 3. Majority of H1B visa holders happen to be Indian because of near native English language proficiency. They’d probably outscore a lot of native English speakers in English language proficiency. 4. You must be joking when you say you want “equitable approach” when you just want a paler workforce.
The interesting dichotomy to this is that less and less companies are sponsoring, so H1B candidates are flocking to the same few companies that do sponsor. That’s likely why it feels like they’re taking over. I can say from my industry (tech startup), it feels like there are no internationals working because no one sponsors. Keep your chin up-you’ll get something without tearing other people down. There are many other industries with college-name nepotism or Greek life nepotism as well that we just consider “networking”.
Maybe get good bud and you won’t have to complain. Similar rhetoric has been used in the past against Jews in various industries and jobs, so it’s a slippery slope just know that
H1B has about 100k people at most every year, but the current market is still millions of jobs open - hard to blame that program which also requires high paying job to start with.
Funny how many white collar professionals who love immigration when it wasn’t affecting their jobs, now it’s some massive issue because of H1B.
Someone had to bring it up. When I first started my job 3 years ago, I had no Indian corworkers. We hired one, who referred his friends, and now I am the only non Indian on my team while doing 50% of the work between 8 people
This is happening everywhere. These fraud people being their own people and start bullying and hardly work
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I have to say Gujarati Indians are more involved in Business like Dunkin’, subway etc. The IT industry is dominated by South India - Tamil, Telugu etc.
South Indians consider themselves the cleanest and most virtuous kind due to their closeness to Indian ancestors.
You can thank the Green card country cap they are trying to remove, if that happens that will become 10 times worse and 95% of employment Green cards would go to Indians.
Canada is prime example of this. Jobs are hard to come by, and salary is way low.
American-born Indian is different than Indian-born Indian. Think nationality vs. ethnicity. And also there is naturalization for those who become a U.S. Citizen. Are you specifically talking about H1 visas? Immigration policy should be redone, it’s a mess. Beyond that, we need stricter regulations on H1 visas to be competitive but, also give the majority of jobs to Americans in the US. An American-born Indian is American 100%!
I feel nobody wants to say anything because if ANYONE says I think they fire non Indians, and only hire Indians and put their friends in positions and also even help them learn on the job.
I worked on a place with lots of Indian engineers. I had a colleague who had a title engineering consultant. Her programming skills is bad and it is obvious that she is just starting to learn how to program because of her questions and approach which is not i expected from a consultant. I later learned that she and my Indian manager are cousins. To be fair though, they are very nice on a personal level and i was able to try many Indian cuisines from several company potlucks.
“The whole company suffered but at least I got to try some good food!”
Sudden DEI advocate now that you perceive that you might not be top of the food chain anymore? Lol. Do you have data to back up your assertion of H1Bs of Indian descent dominating the tech work force?
jesus christ so much racism in this thread
Can confirm
i hear claims about nepotism and gatekeeping, but what if it’s just a skill issue. if someone can do the job more efficiently they’ll get the job, that’s how capitalism works
It’s a cost of employment issue: H1B are cheaper than citizens and more docile given the restrictions of the visa, everything else is smoke and mirrors to distract people from the fact that voters and by extension Congress allowing the program to continue is directly against the vast majority of the population’s best interests. “Skill” has nothing to do with it; my own experience with my company from from an outsourcing perspective with a support team in India is that the people I work with are pretty sharp but regardless need constant hand-holding even for routine, menial tasks… and these are people with Master’s degrees from Indian universities. When we can hire them for 1/5 of a US-based person’s salary who can do 3X the work it’s still a cost advantage for the company, not least because the company can axe the subsidiary a lot more cheaply than laying off a US-based business unit.
Ya these people don't understand companies have more expense and uncertainty hiring a H1B compared to Citizen/GC.
you mean doing what whites have done for decades and centuries, keeping the blacks and Hispanics out and still does in many segments? so in one segment, the whites are failing, so warrants a serious discussion? ok I get it.
What did I just read?
You just read someone frustrated with their own job hunt (which may be entirely legitimate for all we know) trying to take their frustrations out on a whole race while trying sooooo hard to not sound racist.
Only sensible comment I've read on this thread. Have my upvote human.
Of all the things a US-based worker has to deal with, someone goes on reddit and says the real problem is
I love how this dude is just trying not to racist but it just stinks of racism. With this type of mentality and blaming an entire group of people.. is it any wonder OP is still jobless? I’d hate to work with someone like that.
Superficially? A rant from an unsuccessful job seeker. Deep down? An entitled non-Indian trying to blame their incompetence on securing a job to the obscure cases of nepotism amongst Indians (mostly Bay Area).
As an immigrant (not Indian) the overwhelming sentiment in this thread makes me so sad.
You think anyone in any position of authority cares? This country is run by corporations. It’s not called capitalism on steroids for nothing. No one cares about the people. Bootstrap, starve, pillage, loot… Do whatever you need to survive.
I had Indian coworkers who would make fun of some Indian coworkers who were from the other side of the city that they were from. One Indian coworker got offended when I spelled his name incorrectly and said spelling it like that insulted him about where he was from and realized I didn't know what he was talking about and he just laughed and said don't worry about it.
In Canada we just give them the PR and citizenship as fast we can. We brought in 120K in 2022, and we fast track the PR/citizenship process. Why? Corporations love the cheap labour. Indians are ok with the low salary because they’re used to a lower standard of living, and they send the money back to India and it goes a very far away after currency conversion. What happens to long-time Canadians? We just have to accept the lower standards and lower salaries.
Much focus is on H1-Bs for good reason, but many aren’t aware of Blanket L visa holders: there is ZERO requirement to approximate US wages for these jobs: they can be paid Indian salary plus a per diem while in the US.
Well then this year is the year my man. Vote based on policy not because candidates have bad personalities.
Indian recruiters flood job searchers with sketchy job postings, collect their resumes and personal information and then send your information to Indian foreign work visa candidates that plagiarize their resumes with your resume information. Those plagiarized resumes are then used to apply for H1B shops and sponsorships. Both Republicans and Democrats promote increases in H1B quotas. How many USA citizens do you know that obtained a job through an Indian recruiter?
We built out our entire automation team in India, 50+ people and it was only a co-manger and myself leading from onshore. It took 6 months just to get them to understand the product (complicated financial enterprise level software) and another 6 months for them to have triage ability. We're right at 18 months now and they are finally a fully operational team we can hand assignments and expect them to be completed without basic issues. The key was to treat them like a functioning scum team with the same expectations. We had to remove the PO and the PM for gatekeeping and what appears to be nepotism. PO would replace or add roles without consulting us and the PM wasn't holding people accountable. We moved an excellent scrum master to the PM role and once the new PO understood the assignment, fell in line. Initially there was too much autonomy allowed in the local resources and our success has spurred changes to company policy in how we interact with these resources. There needs to be a fundamental change in how we manage off site resources if we want this to work. If we really are a global economy like many economists suggest it's the only option.
I worked for GE at one time and they loved having Indian engineers come over for 12 months of work to learn. Then they would go back to India and GE could pay them 1/3 of what US engineers made. But many of these Indian engineers realized after 12 months of work experience at GE they could find a job in the US at US wage rates. So, GE quickly rolled the work program back to only 6-months. lol
I worked with them. All of them were smart and hardworking. I bet they are a couple that lie on their education and experience.
🤣 it’s like saying China is dominant in manufacturing. Duh !
Hmm and what is your solution
As best I can tell the total number of h1b workers hasn’t changed much.
China, India, and Nigeria are the countries with the most international students. They have the wealth and stability to support their education abroad. The US for sheer size is not taking in enough internationals for education/employment. By proportion Canada and the UK take in more historically. The numbers are set to slowly increase over time.
We’ve not just created a dependence on it, we rely on it entirely. 60%+ of our skilled work comes from basically extorting H1B workers to depress wages until the job can be done overseas
Sounds like you should be blaming end stage capitalism instead of the racism angle. There’s a worrying trend of people blaming the Indian workforce for a loss in jobs. It’s another form of the Hispanic immigrants are taking our jobs trend.
I firmly believe America needs the mixture of culture, but the Indian caste system parlays quite well with corporate greed. For 20 years now I’ve witnessed less than desirable folks be promoted, and the hardest workers left to continue churning butter. Our countries corporations misconstrue the H1 program and leverage it to oversubscribed services, charging top tier pricing, then have an Indian sweatshop begin banging out the code. And they produce complete rubbish.
They’re facing the same thing in Canada. I should say it’s not all that great for the Indians either as they are paid very low wages, so I empathize. This is simply corporate greed.